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Tookie's Legacy

David Anderson is an occasional sparring partner of mine, and despite our differences and occasional dust-ups, I find I like him. It's just a tragic circumstance that he's just utterly wrong on so many issues.

On one, however, he's absolutely right. And he brings a perspective to a recent controversy that must be heard.

David grew up in Los Angeles, in the heart of the neighborhood where the Crips also grew into the national threat they are today. He saw, up close and personal, just what these subhuman monstrosities can do. And he has the scars to prove it.

The execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams does, indeed, bring up a great many questions about our society. For me, the two most prominent ones are 1) what took so long, and 2) why can't we do that to all of them?

Go and read David's account. And while you're at it, take a look at what David escaped, but others did not. (Warning -- graphic photos of Williams' victims.)


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Comments (15)

Don't mean to hijack this t... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but let's talk about another subhuman monster: Richard Allen Davis. Davis kidnapped a young girl from her home and brutally murdered her in 1993. A link to the story is below. I've followed this story because I have young children and the tragedy occured in my region (Northern California).
There is no doubt of his guilt; There is no doubt about his prior violent criminal history, and yet he remains on Death Row, breathing our air, eating our food, and for a time was selling his "prison art" on the internet.
I wonder if the same moonbat crowd will howl with protest when, finally, Davis is sent to the special place in Hell that awaits him.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html

Wow, David's story is reall... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Wow, David's story is really riveting and harrowing to say the least. Sounds like he was lucky to survive on a couple of occassions.

I went to an inner city junior high and high school in Oakland, CA, during the 70s and early 80s, and we had gang members (East 14th Street Mob usually) bussed into our school, including Black Panther co-founder and leader Huey Newton's son. We had dustups between blacks and whites and other gang members, and getting in fights because you stepped on somebody's shoes; and you (especially if you were skinny white kid like me stayed the hell away from certain areas and hallways in school lest you get your ass thumped). But, man, it was nothing, and I mean nothing like David's story.

On the subject of the thread, I heard on the radio the other day that California has revamped their appeals process so that people like Tookie Williams aren't sitting on Death Row for 26 years on appeal after appeal. I haven't investigated it myself but apparently somebody like Scott Peterson may spend a decade on Death Row, but not much more than that before facing his executioner.

I think before we start offing gang members left and right on Death Row, we need to do something about the incredible direct influence these guys still have out on the street. Hell, entire gang operations are still run from prison. There's too much communication with the outside world; too many ways for prisoners to keep the gangs together in prison (often they are housed in the same cell block); too little discipline and lack of solitary confinement for commiting crimes in prison; and just far too many liberties enjoyed by people who've taken away the liberties and securties of their victims.

Prison used to be about punishing people, not defending their rights and coddling. I'd like to see a more hard-ass approach, first. But I still think the death penalty should be on a case-by-case basis (example: Tookie deserved the DP; Scott Peterson, while his crime was pretty heinous, I'm not sure the DP is warranted).

yuppers. right wingers and ... (Below threshold)
WrongWingLiberal:

yuppers. right wingers and their morbid obsession with executing people.
good job.

WWL, your comment is hilari... (Below threshold)

WWL, your comment is hilarious considering how obsessed left-wingers are with being able to kill unborn babies...

I wonder if the same moo... (Below threshold)

I wonder if the same moonbat crowd will howl with protest when, finally, Davis is sent to the special place in Hell that awaits him.

Not much they won't. Trouble is, Davis didn't kill a police officer or public official, and he mostly didn't openly display the amoral, nihilistic thug behavior so beloved by lefty moonbats.

It's a good reminder of why... (Below threshold)
cat:

It's a good reminder of why I despise all those who glorify gangs and gangsters. What it isn't is a justification to kill people when there's no need - and when someone's locked up, there is no justification except revenge.

I feel no particular sadness over the death of Stanley Williams (I refuse to take part in the mass worship of this man by including his fake middle name). There are millions of people in this world who are more deserving of pity than he is.

But that does not make murder right. It was wrong when Williams did it. It was wrong when his minions did it. And it was wrong when the state did it too.

WWL, your comment is hil... (Below threshold)
WrongWingLiberal:

WWL, your comment is hilarious considering how obsessed left-wingers are with being able to kill unborn babies...

The execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams does, indeed, bring up a great many questions about our society. For me, the two most prominent ones are 1) what took so long, and 2) why can't we do that to all of them?

How is suggesting roundin up those poor urban niggers and executing them related to abortion? And why is that funny?

'And it was wrong when the ... (Below threshold)
ICallMasICM:

'And it was wrong when the state did it too. '

The state didn't murder anyone. They fulfilled the punishment handed down by the jury.

WWL, I was referring to gan... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

WWL, I was referring to gang members who are also unrepentant multiple murderers, which is what Williams was executed for being. I think it says a bit more about you that you would immediately leap to that presumption.

Attention all readers: all "poor urban niggers" are gang members and murderers, or at least would be if given the chance, according to WrongWingLiberal. Please adjust your thinking accordingly.

Everyone's got the right to be wrong, but WWL is really abusing that privilege...

J.

WWL you should stop thinkin... (Below threshold)
rock58seg:

WWL you should stop thinking of it as state sanctioned murder or executions, but think of it as late term abortions with a reason.

There's too much communi... (Below threshold)
Pug:

There's too much communication with the outside world; too many ways for prisoners to keep the gangs together in prison (often they are housed in the same cell block); too little discipline and lack of solitary confinement for commiting crimes in prison; and just far too many liberties enjoyed by people who've taken away the liberties and securties of their victims.

Prison used to be about punishing people, not defending their rights and coddling. I'd like to see a more hard-ass approach, first.

I agree Tookie got what he had coming and Richard Allen Davis will not be missed by me.

The above statement, though, was made by a complete ignoramous. Prisons in California are Hell. They are all at double their intended capacity, or more. That means two guys in a small cell. To speak of them as "coddling" doesn't just border on moronic, it is far over the line.

too many ways for prisoners to keep the gangs together in prison

Ever hear of the SHU program? It is solitary confinement. Twenty-three hours a day by yourself being coddled in an 8' by 10' cell. It's where you go if you are certified as a gang member. There's one at Pelican Bay and one at Corcoran. Sentences there are indeterminate.

You are let back on the mainline only if you rat out other cons as gang members, which of course puts your life in danger when you return. Rats are not viewed favorably in prison.

About 40% of men in prison are there on drug charges. For the most part, they didn't take anybody's liberties or securities, but participated in transactions between willing parties, or were caught in possession of substances that are, or are deemed to be, dangerous. You know, like Oxy Contin, a substance that can easily get you a mandatory minimum 20-year sentence.

Before you write completely stupid statements, do at least a little research. Sir, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

tookie's legacy? he helped... (Below threshold)
moseby:

tookie's legacy? he helped confirm what we already know...hollywood is mostly leftwing pondscum!

WWL you should stop thin... (Below threshold)
WrongWingLiberal:

WWL you should stop thinking of it as state sanctioned murder or executions, but think of it as late term abortions with a reason.
Posted by: rock58seg

I was prepared for Jay and the like to turn my statement around. Typical.
But this one was just plain funny.

Pug:They are al... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Pug:

They are all at double their intended capacity, or more. That means two guys in a small cell. To speak of them as "coddling" doesn't just border on moronic, it is far over the line.

Boo-diddly-hoo. Our prisons are overcrowded. And why are the overcrowded, hmm? It's certainly not because they're not all in there for being overly nice. It's a lot of people making a lot of stupid decisions and getting caught for it; decisions they know are wrong and go against the laws of society. Perhaps if so many of them hadn't made such stupid decisions, then maybe we wouldn't have to put "two guys in a small cell". I don't give a damn if they're uncomfortable, they should be uncomfortable.

Furthermore, it is "coddling", in my opinion, to give them cable TV with access to the latest news, direct communication with the outside world, "contact" visits with family members, and in some cases, "overnight" stays with family members (source: Corcoran prison PDF). Are you kidding me? That isn't coddling?

Ever hear of the SHU program? It is solitary confinement. Twenty-three hours a day by yourself being coddled in an 8' by 10' cell. It's where you go if you are certified as a gang member. There's one at Pelican Bay and one at Corcoran. Sentences there are indeterminate.

Thanks for making my point, bro. As I stated in the thread, gang members are kept together, and that's a major flipping problem. It is widely known that despite prison walls and restrictions "out in the world" gang activities are still run from prison. Hell, the Nuestra Familia is well-known for conducting such activities, including plotting murder-for-hire plans from prison. So why keep them together? Makes no sense.

Furthermore, these men aren't "sentenced" to a SHU program, they are "assigned" to it after violating prison rules and God knows what else. They are "sentenced" by the People and by the Justice system that caught them. I find it highly unlikely that prisoners are not moved back to the Level 3 population for "good behavior" within the SHU program; so in that regard the assignment is "determined" by the prisoner's good (or continued bad) behavior.

And SHU, as far as my research is showing, is not a solitary confinement program. This is again from Corcoran:

Housing in Facilities 4A and 4B is maximum security of 180º design facility and provides for a variety of special housing programs. The majority of inmate population in these facilities is the Security Housing Unit (SHU) inmates. Inmates who conduct endangers the safety of others or the security of the institution are housed in SHU. In most cases, these inmates have committed serious rules violations while housed in a general population institution.

The 4B Facility has the bed capacity for 1,024 inmates. Facility 4B houses validated prison gang members, i.e., Nuestra Familia (NF), Nazi Low Riders (NLR), Aryan Brotherhood (AB), Mexican Mafia (EME), Black Guerrilla Family (BGF), Texas Syndicate (TS), and the Northern Structure (NS).

So certainly they are separated from the Level 3 population, usually for bad behavior and violating prison rules, but they are hardly enduring true solitary confinement as you imply.

As for the SHU program at Pelican Bay, the hard-ass, no frills prison that most other prisons should be modeled after, also has a similar SHU program. Which states:

The SHU is a modern design for inmates who are difficult management cases, prison gang members and violent maximum custody inmates.

Again, it's definitely separating out the badasses from the general population, but it ain't solitary confinement.

Being in a lighted cell with a bed and toilet, access to books and conversations with other inmates is decidedly NOT solitary confinement. Solitary confinement is when you as prisoner are completely isolated from any and all prisoners; no contact with anyone but a guard, limited or no access to yard time and so on. As far as I can tell the SHU program is not that at all.

About 40% of men in prison are there on drug charges. For the most part, they didn't take anybody's liberties or securities, but participated in transactions between willing parties, or were caught in possession of substances that are, or are deemed to be, dangerous. You know, like Oxy Contin, a substance that can easily get you a mandatory minimum 20-year sentence.

That's all they've done? Just drugs. Right, not likely, friend. That's just what they got caught doing. Moreover, this stat does not prove whether these men are serving time for minor drug possession, repeated drug possession, drug trafficking, major narcotics violations, making of drugs (meth) and so on.

They didn't take anyone's liberties and securities? How do you know that? What proof do you have? Just because the parties are "willing" does NOT make it legal! That's laughable at best. You do NOT do time in Corcoran or Pelican Bay for innocent drug charges, these men are repeat and violent offenders. And again, that's just what they got caught doing. So give us a break on "the punishment doesn't fit the crime" angle, it's weak and doesn't wash.

Pug, my "stupidity" and "ignorance" are only surpassed by your self-righteous, condescending tone and your inexcusable defense of the indefensible, and some poor facts on your part. That aside, no, there's not a lot I know firsthand about prison life (thank God)--so if I don't know what I'm talking about, thrill all of us as to how you know so much.

How tired of this right and... (Below threshold)
John Wariner:

How tired of this right and left shit I have become. As a former Billy Graham worker, I find the unborn statements of the right, heinous political horseshit. They don't care any more about unborn babies then they do scratching their asses. And as for Hollywood, all you have to do is go to Lynchberg and fine Falwell. It doesn't get any better than that. Righties have taken Jesus off the cross, handed him a Republican campaign banner and put him in the thick of political fascism!




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