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Cheney, in First Intervew, Gets it Exactly Right

Dick Cheney sat down with FOXNews and explained, among other things, why he let the story get out to the media the way he did....

Cheney said he had agreed that Armstrong should be the one to make the story public because she was an eyewitness, because she grew up on the ranch and because she is "an acknowledged expert in all of this" as a past head of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. He also agreed with her decision to choose the Corpus Christi Caller-Times as the way to get the news out.

"I thought that made good sense because you can get as accurate a story as possible from somebody who knew and understood hunting and then it would immediately go up to the wires and be posted on the Web site, which is the way it went out and I thought that was the right call," Cheney said.

"What do you think now?" Hume asked.

"I still do," Cheney responded. "The accuracy was enormously important. I had no press person with me."

Cheney said he was concerned that if the story broke Saturday night when information was still coming in, some reports may have been inaccurate since it was a complicated story that most journalists had never dealt with before.

"I've been in the business for a long time and never seen a situation quite like this," Cheney said. "We've had experiences where the president has been shot. We've never had a situation where the vice president shot somebody."

He said what we all know. You know it, I know it, and every freaking reporter in the press corps knows it. If he had allowed this to get out "fast break style" the media would have screwed it up completely. Totally and completely. Can anyone blame him for not wanting the story to come out screwed up? If the media had a track record of accuracy, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

If there are 2 stories the media are guaranteed to screw up, it is a story involving a gun or an airplane. (and they're not too good at hurricanes either) There is basically zero institutional knowledge about either guns or planes in the big media. Add the complication that it was a structured hunting trip and the big media had no chance of getting it right in a timely fashion.

And Cheney gets to the bottom of why the media is having such a cow over not being told sooner.

"I had a bit of the feeling that the press corps was upset because, to some extent, it was about them - they didn't like the idea that we called the Corpus Christi Caller-Times instead of The New York Times," he said. "But it strikes me that the Corpus Christi Caller-Times is just as valid a news outlet as The New York Times is, especially for covering a major story in south Texas."

Give that man a cigar. The big media got pissy because he went around them.

Which brings me to my last point... The media kept braying that it was "in the public's interest" for him to speak to the media. I call bull shit. We were interested... But it wasn't in our interest.

Let me ask you... Did Cheney not speaking to the media for 17 hours change your life in any way? It didn't affect me a bit. And I somehow managed to summon the courage to go to work yesterday, overcoming the oppression of the Cheney media blackout. None of us knew the guy Cheney shot last week and none of us will even remember his name next month.

If Cheney had been shot, then the media could argue that it was in the public's interest to know sooner but frankly this story grew to be more about the media being hissy than it was Cheney shooting someone.


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Comments (89)

And of course, now the stor... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

And of course, now the story is that Cheney is hiding behind the Right's media lap dog, Fox News.

You just can't win with these idiots.

Paul,Dead on. As s... (Below threshold)
Dan S:

Paul,

Dead on. As someone who has done some wingshooting (long ago), it was immediately obvious to me that the MSM was gonna be blasting holes in the air with this one. Not many of them even know which end of a gun is which, much less the difference between buckshot, BBs and birdshot of varying sizes, or chokes, gauges, hunting protocols or any of the arcana that makes the sport reasonably safe (maybe safer than riding a motorcycle on the expressway, but don't know any stats).

And, yeah, it's a hissyfit. MSM is feeling put upon by other media and this sure felt like an end-around to them. Poor babies.

Maybe if they acted like grownups they would be treated like grownups.

You nailed it. I'm getting ... (Below threshold)

You nailed it. I'm getting a little tired of grown up liberals throwing a tantrum and the so called Rightwing jioning the frenzy. -- Keep up the good work.

Great logic, Boyd. If by "h... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Great logic, Boyd. If by "hiding" you mean "giving an interview on the network that has more viewers than CNN, MSNBC and CNBC combined".

My god, he is an evil genius, ain't he?

I don't usually hear his sh... (Below threshold)

I don't usually hear his show, but I put on Sean Hannity yesterday for about 2 minutes instead of putting in a new CD as I was arriving home and a caller hit the nail on the head, I think...The biggest reason the media is up in flames over this isn't because they got scooped, or didn't have a chance to muck up all the facts...their problem (and I bet they don't even realize it) is that they didn't get the chance to spin this story the way they wanted.

They're trying now, but with a factual account already out in the press, and out ahead of their spins, they look like spin, not news. But, again, I don't think they even realize that this is why they wanted to get it first. The "Cheney could go to jail if the guy dies!" stories now just look, well, stupid.

"I've been in the business ... (Below threshold)
nick:

"I've been in the business for a long time and never seen a situation quite like this," Cheney said. "We've had experiences where the president has been shot. We've never had a situation where the vice president shot somebody."

I suggest the VP check the history books. It did happen before. Has he heard of Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton?

Anyone know David Gregory's... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Anyone know David Gregory's address? I am going to buy him a baby pacifer and mail it to him.

I would dearly love to see ... (Below threshold)
Charles Bannerman:

I would dearly love to see David Gregory lose his White House press pass because he was disruptive and threatening in the press conference. It is time to come down hard on these media guys who think the sun sets in their ass.
Chuck

Nick said:... (Below threshold)
MikeB:

Nick said:

I suggest the VP check the history books. It did happen before. Has he heard of Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton?

Obviously by prefacing the statement "I've been in the business for a long time" the VP is referring to personal experiences. The man may be old, but I don't believe he was 'in the business' during the Burr/Hamilton event.

- MikeB

I believe our vice presiden... (Below threshold)

I believe our vice president feels the same remorse and convictions you or I would have under the circumstances. We all pray that Harry has a full recovery and them two can sit around a fire and jab each other about it.

"(maybe safer than riding a motorcycle on the expressway, but don't know any stats)."

It's much safer Dan, but I would never step into a field with the White House Press Corps. Now "that" would be suicide.

Cheney had every reason to ... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Cheney had every reason to suspect that if he rushed the story to the Washington media, the media would get it wrong.
How quickly we forget the media failure in the recent mine disaster, where families were cruelly let down by a media all too eager to rush the story out before it had all the facts.
The MSM is no longer deserving of trust or consideration.

Great post Paul.Yo... (Below threshold)
Mighty Dwight:

Great post Paul.

You know what this reminds me of? That game we played when I was a kid where you sat in a circle and started a small story on one side of the circle and by the time it got to the other side it was totally different? Some story like I saw a big black dog walking down the street ends up being I saw a giant hairy man eating hamster doing cartwheels on Oprah.

That's exactly what would have happened in this instance. If the national press would have gotten a hold of this story at the beginning then it would have ended up something like "Cheney shoots man in the head for talking about Haliburton" or something totally stupid like that.

Matt:Since it's ha... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

Matt:

Since it's harder to pick up sarcasm and stuff like that from the written word, I'm not exactly sure what you meant in your response to me.

At any rate, in case you misunderstood my point (and my apologies if you didn't), I was merely reporting one of the MSM's and the Democrats' reactions to the Cheney interview with Hume. I heard that sentiment specifically from Paul Begala and Sen. Reid, and I'm sure there are others.

Sorry, Boyd. Your Jack Caff... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Sorry, Boyd. Your Jack Cafferty impersonation was of Oscar caliber. You will be removed from the Enemies List immediately.

Several things: 1) C... (Below threshold)
sean nyc/aa:

Several things:
1) Cheney COULDN'T go to the media Saturday night because he hadn't yet spoken to police. This was the first question any decent reporter would have looked for was the plice report of the incident and that did not yet exist. That forced Cheney to wait until Sunday after speaking with law enforcement.

2) Cheney said he had agreed that Armstrong should be the one to make the story public because she was an eyewitness

She was 100 yards away near dusk in brush, and nobody knows if she was intently watching the action. I don't think her "eyewitness" testimony would be allowed in court. At least if "My Cousin Vinny" is the attorney.

3) Did Cheney not speaking to the media for 17 hours change your life in any way?

Cheney didn't speak with the media for almost 4 DAYS. And Cheney not speaking with the cops for 14 hrs IS A BIG DEAL. That's still the biggest question mark. How can any man shot someone in the face and not talk to the cops IMMEDIATELY? Stop rah-rahing Cheney's behavior. It's nothing to be proud of.

I don't think the initial r... (Below threshold)
jc:

I don't think the initial reporting on this was accurate. I got the impression that peppered meant the guy got hit by a few beebee-sized pellets hard enough to break the skin and draw some blood. Cheney said it was a hard enough hit to knock the man down, and now we know that a pellet is lodged in his heart.

But your main point still stands, that the MSM would have screwed up the story even worse. "We're hearing reports of rape, murder, and even cannibalism among the Cheney hunting party."

Sean, there's a big differe... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

Sean, there's a big difference between "not speaking with the cops" and "avoided speaking with the cops." Do you have any indication that Cheney took steps to put off his police interview? Has local law enforcement made any statement that they tried to talk to the Vice President on Saturday evening, but were dissuaded or barred from doing so?

Otherwise, you (and others of the IHateBushCheneyRumsfeldHalliburtonBecauseTheyAreAllNazis crowd) are just making stuff up out of your imaginations.

JC- do your homework.... (Below threshold)
LJD:

JC- do your homework.

I've heard everything from 'the buckshot' to BBs. Both are much larger than what was used. Actually it was bird shot, which is as small or smaller than the head of a pin. My understanding is that the pellet did not enter his heart by the weapon, rather migrated there through his blood stream. So you can imagine it was fairly small.
Remember also, that there is fairly little tissue covering the circulatory system around the neck area.

So yes, peppering IS an accurate description. As for falling to the ground, a natural reaction if you have just been 'peppered'. I would not say he was 'knocked' to the ground, as if he had been shot with a 44 magnum.

It does no one any good to perpetuate the misinformation, or make assumptions based on inexperience.

BoydIf you read an... (Below threshold)
Chris:

Boyd

If you read anything about this story, you'll see that the police showed up at the ranch Saturday evening and were turned away. So yeah, I would call that an "indication that Cheney took steps to put off his police interview?"

You guys are spinning so hard I'm surprised you can stand up. The question of whether it had an immediate impact on my life is typical Paul bullshit. Did Clinton lying have any effect on your life, ever? Did the West Virginia mine disaster? Did 99% of the news? You're keeping up your record of saying something ridiculous in every post.

So from what I gather, the White House has decided that the media is no longer to be given information, because they'll only get the story wrong. So you're all content with just listening to government propaganda? And I'm not saying this is some huge propaganda deal, but if you endorse the idea that the government can now just refuse to tell the press anything and can completely control the flow of information, that's what you're endorsing. Unless of course something appears in the press that makes the left look bad. Then suddenly it's credible and appears on every right wing blog in minutes. What hypocrites.

Here's the funny part, though. Katherine Cunningham reports that the guy was only "peppered," that he was joking about the incident, and that he was more stunned than anything. Cheney says the guy was bloody, only one eye was open, and he was unresponsive. The hospital says he had as many as 200 pellets in him, including in his heart and liver.

Mary Matalin, Armstrong, Alan Simpson and everyone else speaking for the VP says it was Whittington's fault. Hunting safety experts (and Cheney hinself) all agree that Cheney bears the brunt of the blame.

Armstrong says there was no alcohol, then she says there was beer at lunch but she's not sure if anyone drank, then she says Cheney had a beer, then she says Cheney had a beer and a cocktail with dinner.

Cheney says his focus wasn't on calling the press, it was entirely on Whittington's condition.

Armstrong says Cheney went back to the ranch and had dinner and a cocktail

Yeah, good thing the press didn't get a hold of this. They might have gotten the facts wrong.

Face it, if the press had made as many errors reporting this story as the actual eyewitnesses did, you'r all be screaming about how biased they are. Try not to get too dizzy with your spinning.

Not being a gun person myse... (Below threshold)

Not being a gun person myself, I'd like to know if it is even illegal to have a few stiff drinks of alcohol before you march off into the brush to shoot something.

If you keep digging, sooner... (Below threshold)
LJD:

If you keep digging, sooner or later you end up at the bottom of the Chappaquiddick River.

This is too funny. Next thing they'll be telling us that Bush shoved a cigar into some nasty intern...

1) dchamil. how much before... (Below threshold)
JEW:

1) dchamil. how much before?

2) The part I could not get over was Mort stating, Cheny never did say "It was my fault" as if Cheney was trying to get away with something.

Technically Mort is right, but come on, he did say "It wasn't Harry's fault, I pulled the trigger, I'm responsible". How many more words could he say without using the precise ones Mort wanted to hear?

Dear Paul:This may b... (Below threshold)

Dear Paul:
This may be unfashionable but the press is right on this one. It was news and who the hell was the VP to supress news that had nothing to do with national security?
He covered up that he had shot someone. His concern about accuracy is an insult. I have read enough blogs to appreciate better just how well by profession does
Not news? Then why is it still being discussed hotly five days later.
Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, which Cheney deferred four four days.
Carrying water for the administration is not conservatism
Change the name to Ted Kennedy

Hmmm.@ Chris... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ Chris

If you read anything about this story, you'll see that the police showed up at the ranch Saturday evening and were turned away. So yeah, I would call that an "indication that Cheney took steps to put off his police interview?"

Got a link? Because this is the first I've heard of this. What I heard the Sheriff state on tv was that he sent a Deputy around Sunday to find out what happened. What I didn't hear him say was that he sent a Deputy immediately to the ranch and was turned away.

So I'd suggest you provide something to back that up.

How Wizbang, once again, go... (Below threshold)
jp2:

How Wizbang, once again, got it wrong:

"The accuracy was enormously important."

Getting past the fact that a partisan friend released the info, her statement wasn't accurate at all.

-"It knocked him silly. But he was fine."

No, he wasn't. He's went to the ICU. This is wrong, even according to Cheney's account.

-"Ms. Armstrong and Ms. Willeford said the accident was largely the fault of Mr. Whittington, who had reappeared alongside two of his hunting companions without giving proper warning."

Again, wrong. Cheney even took responsibility (!) for it.

-Armstrong had previously told CNN that she never saw Cheney or Whittington "drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident occurred, when the vice president fixed himself a cocktail back at the house."

Again, wrong. He had more alcohol, as he admitted later.

Hmmm.What's really... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

What's really amusing is that the result of The Batlimore Sun vs. Erlich has recently come in. What that legal case decided is that politicians can decide when, and explicitly to whom, they talk to.

So if VP Cheney decides to not talk to the White House Press Corps, he's golden because it's all legal according to the 4th Circuit.

After listening to the prim... (Below threshold)

After listening to the primadonnas of the Washington "Press" Corps squeal "but it's all about ME ME ME..how dare you not make ME the center of your life!" what one can only conclude is this is not just about the audicity in reporting it to a :::gasp::: ::::horrors::: local paper to be uploaded to a website, but its about hating Cheney. Period.

MSM says: "let's forget the genocide in the Sudan, the saber-rattling insanity from Iran, let's not publish the Danish cartoons cuz we are all warm and fuzzy about moslem sensibilities... LET'S GET ANGRY AND MAD because we weren't notified before even Whittington was taken to the hospital! And let's start making up crap from whole cloth!Wooo eeee! Let's keep angry and focused on this until the next coed disappears in a topical isle!"

Asshats. And all those that support that meme.

jp2Take a clue. Wh... (Below threshold)

jp2

Take a clue. When someone is 78 y/o they are taken into ICU after a fall, specifically because they want to monitor them for subsequent events.

Also if Armstrong didn't see Cheney drink at beer at lunch, how is that lying if she said she didn't see him have a beer?

Now, I know logic fails in the face of BDS, but does any one honestly believe that a man who has suffered 4 heart attacks, takes heart meds, is accompanied by medical personnel AND the Secret Service is going to be allowed to 1)get drunk 2)be drunk and allowed to hold a shotgun

Come ON!

Hmmm.@ jp2<b... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ jp2

Again, wrong. He had more alcohol, as he admitted later.

Which he stated he HAD WITH DINNER you twit. Are you actually suggesting that Cheney had dinner and then went shooting?

Christ you people really disgust the hell out of me.

Ed:The link is her... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Ed:

The link is here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/14/cheney/

During Tuesday's White House news conference, spokesman Scott McClellan was asked if waiting 14 hours after the shooting before Cheney spoke with police was appropriate, and whether an average citizen would have been afforded the same amount of time.

"That was what was arranged with the local law enforcement authorities," McClellan said. "You ought to ask them that question."

TedI'll try and fi... (Below threshold)

Ted

I'll try and find a link online, but what I've heard on the radio is that the Secret Service contacted local officials about the accident right away and THEY said to the effect "ok, we'll be out to talk to you Sunday."

Yep, take it up with the local pd who gets calls about hunting accidents regularly and what THEIR procedures are regular.

What's all this fuss about?... (Below threshold)
Bill:

What's all this fuss about? This is Richard Cheney, the second most important man in the world! So he shot someone, big deal.. Why should the Cheney people let the media know what's going on with this private affair. I'm sure if it were you or I the police would have made an appointment to interview us the next day too. So he shot a man in the heart, bet that happens everyday in Texas. Liked the way the ranch owner & then the White House placed the blame on the victim, good show! Too bad professional hunters from 'Field and Stream' magazine and hundreds of others (Cheney included) seem to feel the guy with the guy is responsible. I do have one problem with the VP, in his interview he stated that there wasn't room in the ambulance for him to accompany 'his friend' to the hospital, gee you'd think since he was hunting not far from his SS detail he could've grabbed a ride! Let's face it, with over 2271 dead & way over 16,549 wounded young men and woman in Iraq, who really cares about a Republican lawyer with a bird-shot in his heart. Are we having a good time yet?

Darleen:It says th... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Darleen:

It says that it was "arranged" that they would come out Sunday. I think that means that we need to know why. If any normal citizen shot someone I have my doubts that they such an arrangement could be made. Certainly the local officials should be asked if this is normal, but it sure makes Cheney look bad whether he did anything wrong or not. Why wait 14 hours to talk about the incident? Both the police and Cheney should answer that question.

"That was what was arran... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

"That was what was arranged with the local law enforcement authorities," McClellan said. "You ought to ask them that question."

And has anyone asked the cops in Texas and been told there was a problem?

I had a similar incident in PA back in 96, on the receiving end of bird shot. It was a Saturday, and it was cold, so luckily I was in a decent jacket and hat, so I only had some broken skin on my right leg and 7 pellets that had to be tweezered out. When it was reported to the local cops and the park rangers, they asked if it was an accident, and if both the shooter and I agreed it was an accident. Then THEY asked if we could handle the paperwork on Monday, when they had the coverage to make it easy.

To be honest, until I hear the cops, I am not going to condemn anyone for the delay in Cheney talking to them, since they were clearly informed of the incident in short order.

As for suspecting the press would go crazy and fill in the blanks with wild speculation, Cheney was right. I've heard reports of buckshot being used (wasn't), a radio report calling the shot gun large caliber (not knowing that the larger the gauge, the smaller the bore) and Chris Matthews was frothing at the mouth saying the poor man was shot in the heart (despite what the hospital has said). And all this was after taking the time to talk to a local newspaper that understood hunting etc.

BillAre you congen... (Below threshold)

Bill

Are you congenitally stupid or just play that part on the net?

He was NOT SHOT IN THE HEART!

"Take a clue. When someone ... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"Take a clue. When someone is 78 y/o they are taken into ICU after a fall, specifically because they want to monitor them for subsequent events."

You don't go there for a fall. You go there when you have serious heart/respiratory trouble. Or are a victim of a major shooting accident. You also don't stay there long - you move to a telemetry floor if it's low grade heart problems. He hasn't moved, and for good reason - he's 78 and was shot in the face and heart by a drunk Vice President.

Again the point - if Cheney is claiming that he went through a private citizen for accuracy - he was dead wrong, due to her innaccurate statements.

To be honest, until I he... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

To be honest, until I hear the cops, I am not going to condemn anyone for the delay in Cheney talking to them, since they were clearly informed of the incident in short order.

The Smoking Gun has the police report and it sounds fairly innocent to me. The accident occurred at 5:30 and by 6:30, the sheriff had been notified. The sheriff told the deputy to go by the next morning at 8:00 to investigate. It doesn't exactly sound nefarious to me.

The problem I have w... (Below threshold)
Ted:


The problem I have with this is the story told by Katharine Armstrong. She initially made it sound as if Harry Whittington was barely injured. She said he was talking, just bruised but not bleeding, etc. We now know that many of the things she initially said were false. In fact, it almost seems like she DID NOT witness the accident after hearing what Cheney said yesterday about the accident. If this was just a one time thing I would not be so concerned, but it just seems that Cheney never really tells the whole truth to us.

Hey Darleen, Sorry about th... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Hey Darleen, Sorry about that he was also shot in the face and other parts of his body. Yes that 'magic' pellet went straight to the heart, guess it moved by itself. Funny, my comment about the war dead/wounded didn't seem to faze you. Get a grip, you guys are in charge of the world and you all are doing such a fine job! Seems that the Bush/Cheney team can do no wrong, ever!

BillHow is someone... (Below threshold)

Bill

How is someone "shot in the heart" when the spray hits them DOWN THE RIGHT SIDE OF THEIR BODY.

JAYsus fuckin' Christ... did you sleep through high school biology?

(did you even GET to hs biology class?)

He had an arhythmia because a pellet the size of the head of a pin got into his blood stream and was irritating his heart. Probably from the neck.

HE was not shot in the heart. Bird shot is INCAPABLE of penetrating the chest cavity.

Steve:I am sure th... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Steve:

I am sure that the incident was an accident, but the police report just says that the officer was told to show up at 8:00 am by his supervisors. It does not say whether this is normal procedure or whether officers would have liked to report on the incident sooner. It just appears suspicious to wait so long. I am not from Texas, but I know that if I shot someone by accident the police would want to question me immediately. Lets face it-if it could be proved that Cheney was drinking even a little when the accident occurred, then his days as VP would already be over.

Hey is it true that as a yo... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Hey is it true that as a young man Dick Cheney had two DWI's? Also, did he have 5 deferments keeping him out of Viet Nam, yet was a "big" supporter of the war? some "problems" at Yale? Can you say Chicken Hawk? Well can ya Darleen?

Bill:I think it is... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Bill:

I think it is a little unfair to go after Cheney for the DWIs. They were a long time ago, and many young people make mistakes with alcohol.

Nonetheless, I think the deferments while supporting the Vietnam War are rather telling of Cheney's character. I have never understood how people could support a war yet refuse to fight in it. Especially when others that don't want to fight and might not even support the war are getting drafted. I just don't think the "hawks" think about this for one reason or another.

Hmmm.@ Chris... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ Chris

Seriously Chris. Are you really trying to say that these two quotes are equivalent? In the first quote, yours btw, you're asserting that Cheney's entourage turned the police away.

I.e. the police showed up and were refused entrance.

In the second quote you backtrack from this position and then assert something I've already pointed out. That the Sheriff sent a Deputy around Sunday morning to talk to Cheney.

These are not equivalent. Frankly the police acted much like any rural police force when told of a weekend hunting accident that hasn't resulted in a homocide.

I think you need to review your positions on this subject. There is a vast difference in how law enforcement is handled in rural areas involving hunting accidents and urban areas involving gun crime. The two are not equivalent either.

If you read anything about this story, you'll see that the police showed up at the ranch Saturday evening and were turned away. So yeah, I would call that an "indication that Cheney took steps to put off his police interview?"
During Tuesday's White House news conference, spokesman Scott McClellan was asked if waiting 14 hours after the shooting before Cheney spoke with police was appropriate, and whether an average citizen would have been afforded the same amount of time.

"That was what was arranged with the local law enforcement authorities," McClellan said. "You ought to ask them that question."


Hmmm.1. Frankly yo... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

1. Frankly you liberals here can ride this donkey until it collapses but that's not going to change either the circumstances of this or the outcome. The only thing that's going to come out of this is that the rabidly liberal MSM are going to be even more discredited in the heartland.

2. jp2 asserting that Cheney was drunk is about as stupid a thing I've read on Wizbang. And considering some of the comments left here by liberal trolls, that's really making something of yourself.

Here's a f**king clue for you guys. Someone who is drunk is NOT going to be using a 28 gauge shotgun to go shooting quail on the wing.

link

10 gauge = .775 inch, 12 gauge = .729 inch, 16 gauge = .662 inch, 20 gauge = .615 inch, 28 gauge = .550 inch

Trying to shoot a fast moving small bird with a 12 gauge is tough enough. Trying to do it with a 28 gauge is even tougher.

dimwits.

Hey there Darleen, Referrin... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Hey there Darleen, Referring to the heart "The BB is in a fixed position, its not mobile," Dr. David Blanchard, the hospital's emergency-room chief, told reporters in a televised briefing outside the hospital. "The medical team in Corpus Christi, Texas, had reported that Whittington sustained birdshot wounds to his face, neck, chest, and rib cage" (Scripps Howard News Service) I understand that Bush/Cheney can do no wrong with you. Are you that gullible?

Ed:I don't think a... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Ed:

I don't think anyone was saying that Cheney was drunk. Nonetheless, if he was drinking even a small amount and this accident happened then this is a completely different story. Do you really think that Cheney would be VP today if the police questioned him right after the accident and smelled alcohol on his breath? I was originally from a small town, and I know that the police rarely allow someone to avoid questioning in a situation like this UNLESS they are afraid of what they might find. In other words, small town police will give the benefit of the doubt to what they perceive as the privileged class. No matter why the questioning did not occur for 14 hours, it was improperly handled. I get the feeling that you would support Cheney no matter what he did.

<a href="http://www.chron.c... (Below threshold)

Sheriff's report

The sheriff's department determined the shooting was an accident and closed the case without charges, according to a report issued today.
"The report is out. No charges will be filed against anybody -- that's it," Sheriff Ramon Salinas III said.
Chief Deputy Gilbert San Miguel said "our investigation is over. It's a mere hunting accident.'"

BillIt's in a fixe... (Below threshold)

Bill

It's in a fixed position NOW. And they have no plans to recover it. But it migrated

The single birdshot that migrated into his heart is not in danger of moving, and doctors don't plan to remove it.

Darleen:Certainly ... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Darleen:

Certainly no charges will be filed, but that does not mean that the situation was handled correctly. It does not mean that Cheney is above suspicion. His comments regarding the accident contradict many of the comments by Katharine Armstrong. No one is saying that Dick Cheney should be put in prison. What I am saying is that it does not appear that the whole truth has been told, which seems to be a problem when it comes to Dick Cheney.

TedYou work in the... (Below threshold)

Ted

You work in the judiciary?

I do. I handle hundreds upon hundreds of police reports. Initial statements by witnesses rarely coordinate. It is up to the investigators, people who do this FOR A LIVING to gather, evaluate and assess those statements. Some "contradiction" will, upon further assessment not BE contradictions. You have five eyewitnesses, you are going to have five different testimonies. Fact.

The local police were notified of an accident and they investigated it the next day. SOP.

They interviewed all the eyewitnesses AND the victim. SOP

It was exactly as it has been since the beginning. An unfortunate hunting ACCIDENT.

What is evident is that our so-called Major Media can't STAND that they were not the FIRST on the scene but were scooped by a Texas reporter.

Course, some of this anger might be misplaced self-loathing, since this self-same Media Royality are cowards when it comes to the Danish Cartoons.

"2. jp2 asserting that Chen... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"2. jp2 asserting that Cheney was drunk is about as stupid a thing I've read on Wizbang."

Really? You must be new here.

"And considering some of the comments left here by liberal trolls, that's really making something of yourself."

We'll never know if Ted Kennedy was technically drunk that fateful night either. Why? He avoided the police. Same method Cheney took.

I suppose you believe that a two-time DUI offender really only had 1 beer. Do you know the effects of one beer with his plethora of heart meds? Is that all it takes for you? "Cheney said he had one beer, so that's good enough for me." Sorry, but I don't believe any politician that much. Neither should you.

We'll never know if he was drunk - but based on the dishonesty of the investigation so far and the fact that he was drinking before hunting...VP Cheney was drunk and shot someone in the face.

jp2Get.help.... (Below threshold)

jp2

Get.help.

jp2So, when are yo... (Below threshold)

jp2

So, when are you going to attack Whittington for having the termerity not to go along with the O'Donnell slouch to slander?

Darleen:Yes, I do ... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Darleen:

Yes, I do work in the judiciary. There are not just small contradictions between the stories of
Cheney and Armstrong. There are MAJOR differences. I certainly would expect some difference, but Armstrong stated that Whittington was joking about the incident when he left the ranch. This is what she told a local reporter.

I really don't think you should blame it on the media, but you probably will anyway. I agree that the Danish cartoons should be published. In fact, I would tell the Muslim community that we are going to keep printing them until they stop protesting.

I have said that I believe it was a hunting accident. Nonetheless, you have 14 hours between the accident and the police investigating the matter. Sorry, that is suspicious. You have a witness with MAJOR differences in her story from that of the VP giving the story to a local paper instead of Cheney immediately releasing the statement to the national press. Sorry, that is suspicious.

Cheney seems to have a credibility problem. Not with you, but he sure seems to have one with alot of people. I don't think the media is to blame for that.

Darleen,Did you re... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Darleen,

Did you read the last two paragraphs in the article you linked?

Also, I'm no medical expert, but I have some familiarity with the heart. It's difficult for me to imagine how the pellet could have migrated through the blood stream to the location where it is now lodged (based on the article's description).

I hate to say it, but that article leads me to believe the pellet was shot into the heart.

To be clearer,The ... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

To be clearer,

The article describes the location of the pellet:

"The birdshot is in an exterior layer of muscle in the bottom portion of the heart..."

If the pellet were carried to the heart through a vein, I doubt that is a likely place for it to become lodged. Any medical people care to comment?

The article concludes with this:

"Dr. Robert McFarlane, a cardiologist and longtime hunter from Palestine, said it is plausible for birdshot to penetrate the skin and reach the heart from the described distance."

""The heart is only a few inches below the chest wall," he said. "Especially if the BB hits between the ribs, it's not hard to imagine it could go that deep.""

"He estimated that the pellet could penetrate that far if the shooter is standing less than 35 yards away, unless the victim is wearing something like a very heavy coat. It's unclear what clothing Whittington was wearing Saturday evening."

I could buy that.

DarleenThe link yo... (Below threshold)
Chris:

Darleen

The link you provided absolutely does not say that the pellet migrated. It says it's plausible that it could have lodged in Whittington's chest. Did you even read it? And here's another link you might find interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/politics/15heart.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Note the part that says "Although the public was told for the first time yesterday that a shotgun pellet from a hunting accident had lodged in the lawyer's heart, one of his doctors said that "we knew that he had some birdshot very close to the heart from the get-go," but not its precise location."

I'll interpret for you. The pellets entered his chest cavity and lodged near his heart. That's sopme peppering.

So Darleen your a file cler... (Below threshold)
Bill:

So Darleen your a file clerk, I'm so sorry that I doubted your astuteness. Well then that does make you a medical and a police expert all wrapped into one, hell Darleen I'm impressed! I wonder when the VP plans to go a hunting again, perhaps he should read the safety rules posted by the NRA, or maybe someone will read the list to him.

Chris:Thanks for t... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Chris:

Thanks for the link. This confirms my lay opinion:

"Dr. O. Wayne Isom, the chairman of heart and chest surgery at Weill Cornell Medical College, said it was unlikely that a pellet would migrate to the heart through the bloodstream, as some have assumed from the account of the Texas doctors."

"The reason, Dr. Isom said, is that the pellet would have to enter a vein, travel to and through the lung vessels that go to the heart, and then lodge in heart tissue, not in one of its chambers. The pellets were approximately five millimeters, about the size of a BB, and larger than most blood vessels, said Dr. David Blanchard, director of emergency services at the hospital."

"A more likely explanation, Dr. Isom said, is that the pellet lodged in or touched the heart when Mr. Whittington was shot."

Bill:

Why the spittle-flecked rant at Darleen? You have no idea what she does or what her training and expertise may entail. It seems pretty obvious from her familiarity with the contents of reports and testimony that she is not locked away in some file room.

You're an asshole, Bill.

Got a link? Because this... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Got a link? Because this is the first I've heard of this. What I heard the Sheriff state on tv was that he sent a Deputy around Sunday to find out what happened. What I didn't hear him say was that he sent a Deputy immediately to the ranch and was turned away.

Well, here's a link, but it details the conflicting news reports, including both the one you saw and the one Chris saw. Who the hell knows?

Papers Carry Differing Accounts of Sheriff's Office Questioning Cheney

The New York Times reports Tuesday that the local sheriff, Ramon Salinas III of Kenedy County, said the Secret Service called him shortly after the shooting occurred.
"Sheriff Salinas said he sent his chief deputy, Gilbert Sanmiguel, to the Armstrong Ranch that night," the Times relates. "He said Mr. Sanmiguel interviewed Mr. Cheney and reported that the shooting was an accident."

The Dallas Morning News, at the same time, reports that "questions remained as to why Mr. Cheney was not interviewed on Saturday."

Chief Deputy Gilbert San Miguel suggested he always knew where the vice president and the other witnesses were. "We were always in contact with Secret Service," he told the paper.

Sheriff Salinas said he decided Saturday night not to send anyone to the ranch and added that he was relying on information from others that it was an accident. "If I wanted to go in there, we would have gone in there," he told the Dallas paper. "If someone called and told me there was a shooting and they didn't think it was an accident, I'd have five or six people on the ranch."

The Washington Post reports Tuesday: "Local law enforcement officials did not interview Cheney until Sunday morning, about 14 hours after the shooting, in an agreement worked out between the Secret Service and Kenedy County Sheriff Ramon Salinas III. Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said at least one deputy was turned away shortly after the shooting because security personnel at the ranch were not aware of the agreement between the sheriff and the Secret Service."

"Cheney not speaking with t... (Below threshold)
John S:

"Cheney not speaking with the cops for 14 hrs IS A BIG DEAL."

I suppose, but it's better than leaving a 22- year-old-girl-who-is-not-your-wife to drown for 14 hours before even notifying the cops.

Why is this still saturating the news? I wish North Korea would nuke L.A. That would give us 5 million less Blue Staters and something different to watch on the news.

Gee thanks Denny your so el... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Gee thanks Denny your so eloquent and if you look at the posts from Darleen you'll see that she took the Lords name in vain, go look! Also the "woman" does come across as an expert in so many areas, she's smart! I know this blog belongs to you guys, but I notice that with all the "talk" of family and church ya all have mouths like ashtrays. I get such a kick out of it when our heroine Darleen puts down a mother who's son lost his life fighting for Bush/Cheney, hell of a job Darleen!

John S:Please spar... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

John S:

Please spare L.A.--we're not ALL blue!

Bill: I'm an agnostic so my foul mouth doesn't really present any hypocrisy.

As for the lying, seditious, delusional Sheehan, she abused our legitimate sympathies long ago. Now the piece of shit is fair game. Get over it.

From what Willington Doctor... (Below threshold)
Wayne:

From what Willington Doctor said was the pellet migrated to the heart. Any object that gets under the skin can move from one part of the body to another part, especially if it is located in one of the bodies many sheaths or natural passageways. Not that it matters much.

Paul, our host says that it... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Paul, our host says that it was not in 'the public interest' for Cheney to speak to the public about the accidental shooting, since presumably he was on a private visit ..Of course, Cheney's spends an awful alot of his private time traveling with the perks of public office, rubbing shoulders with people such as Armstrong who just happens to be an important lobbyist. I am sure after the crucial advise and service she has given the vice-president her already considerable fees, have just gone up, but as to her reporting of the incident..I hope she charges only for access , not for accurately rendering what happened in her eye witness account.

Hmmmm.@ Ted ... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Ted

1.

I don't think anyone was saying that Cheney was drunk.

Read jp2's comments, among others.

2.

Nonetheless, if he was drinking even a small amount and this accident happened then this is a completely different story.

RTFA. Cheney had a beer during lunch. This shooting incident happened at around 5pm.

A human body can easily metabolise the minimal alcohol from a single beer within an hour.

3.

Do you really think that Cheney would be VP today if the police questioned him right after the accident and smelled alcohol on his breath?

Of course not. But that actually requires him to be, you know, *drunk*. No matter how much you wish it were the case there's no evidence whatsoever to support that.

4.

I was originally from a small town, and I know that the police rarely allow someone to avoid questioning in a situation like this UNLESS they are afraid of what they might find.

Complete nonsense! If that's your meme then you need to go and discuss this with the local Sheriff. I can easily see the Sheriff sending a Deputy the next morning to get a statement for a hunting accident that didn't result in a fatality.

5.

In other words, small town police will give the benefit of the doubt to what they perceive as the privileged class.

Wrong. Small town police will on the other hand deal reasonably with well known local people especially if that person was also recently the head of Fish & Game. What? You think Armstrong didn't tell them to just come by the next morning? It's not about power. It's about trusting the individuals you know well.

6.

No matter why the questioning did not occur for 14 hours, it was improperly handled.

*shrug* your opinion. No doubt you also think that Clinton's illegal theft of over 1,000 confidential FBI files on prominent Republicans is just peachy too.

7.

I get the feeling that you would support Cheney no matter what he did.

Wrong again. I have any number of problems with this administration. I think they suck up to Saudi Arabia far too much, they leave illegal immigration undealt with and a whole host of other issues. Frankly I have no plans to vote Republican in 2006 and 2008 because of my disgust so don't try hanging that on me.

But a bullshit story is a bullshit story.

Hmmm.@ mantis... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ mantis

Well, here's a link, but it details the conflicting news reports, including both the one you saw and the one Chris saw. Who the hell knows?

Frankly I think it's utter bullshit that a Deputy would be turned away like that. What? The Secret Service doesn't have *radios*? They don't have any capability of using a cell phone? A radio? Drive to the gate and talk to the Deputy?

Sounds like someone at the NYT is playing around at building up some smoke so people can point fingers and scream about a fire.

Hmmm.28 gauge bird... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

28 gauge birdshot

1. Shotgun used was a 28 gauge.
2. Number of shot was at least 200, since that was the number of shot reportedly removed from the victim.

link

Which means that the size of the shot used was very likely the #7.5 which is 0.100" or 2.41mm dia.

Which is rather smaller than a BB.

Ed:I'm no gun expe... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Ed:

I'm no gun expert. But how do you square your 2.41mm diameter with the doctor's statement that the shot was 5mm? Do you think the doctor was wrong?

Okay, everyone thinks Dick'... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Okay, everyone thinks Dick's interview on Fox was a slam dunk, but then why do his facts differ from what the Armstrong woman said?

According to her, she said they only drank Dr. Pepper during lunch, however, the V.P. said he had one beer. Which is it?

The V.P. stated that he wanted Armstrong to report it to the press because she was the best witness (and also because she was an ex-wildlife something (huh?). But she claimed on AP that she was over 100 yards away. In fact, she was so far away she didn't even know someone was shot. She thought Cheney had a heart attack. Maybe she wasn't the best person?

The fact is, Dick just doesn't believe he has to say anything to the press about anything; he doesn't have to report to anyone, including us, the people, you remember, you & me, the one's he works for.

Now as a true liberal, let me tell you straight up, that his 5-day delay was not the best approach to this. In fact, if Dick would have came out earlier (even with a press release) stating exactly what he said yesterday, then he would have looked human, dare I say, caring. Waiting this long only turned this story into a feeding frenzy. You really need to drop this whole "waiting because facts will be wrong" B.S. Do you really believe that? Come on.

Dick knew that facts all he had to do was report them that night. If he would have came out Saturday night and made a statement, followed by a news conference on Monday, this story would have died long ago. It would have just been a tragic hunting story. But when you wait so long, to even tell the President what you've done, it looks like you're hiding something. I know what I know about the law from watching 'Law & Order' but that just doesn't look good.

I remember when this first happened and some people kept saying, when is he going to come out and apologize. I never agreed with that. Apologize to who, for what? He could do that in private with the man he shot. All he had to do was come out and say something after the fact...not five days after the fact, forcing Scotty to look bad (again) and make everyone else look tasteless with all the bad jokes (Come on Neo's, leave the bad jokes to Leno and Letterman).

To make matters worse, the sheriff down there didn't even investigate this matter. Let's pretend for a second you're all diehard conservatives. What if you're dad or your grandfather went hunting with Al Gore and Al accidently shot your grandpa. Wouldn't you like it if the local sheriff had at least one conversation with the witnesses the day that it happened, not the next day? Maybe even check out the scene? Make sure Mr. Gore didn't have a few drinks before driving out to where birds (who's wings are clipped to prevent flying) in cages that are released and shot at. (Okay, that was a cheap liberal shot, sorry). Again, I'm just a Law & Order guy, but that seems like bad police work.

Cheney probably did nothing wrong. But he should have reported this that day, you can't deny this one fact. If he did, we wouldn't be talking about this at all right now and we could instead focus on better things like Iraq, Katrina response investigation, $7-billion more in tax breaks for oil companies approved this past week, the Scooter Libby trial, the illegal NSA spying, Bush 40% approval rating...okay, again, low blows. I'm sorry.

If you can at least agree with this point, I'll agree with Scottie and say this story has been covered.

Rob,I happen to ad... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Rob,

I happen to admire Cheney in many ways, and I am basically conservative--more like a "South Park Conservative." I typically bristle at posts from liberals. I must say, with a couple of exceptions, yours was a good post and I probably agree with much of it. What I appreciate most is the lack of hysteria.

One tip: Become freindly with your calendar. If you think Cheney should have alerted the press five days earlier, that would have him blabbing a day before the shooting.

Also, while I agree that he could have deflected much criticism by speaking sooner, I've gotta say this controversy is reflecting worse on the Democrats and the media than on the Administration. I think most Americans are appalled by the hysterical rants flying around, and they don't give a shit about the purported delay. I predict when poll results surface, the Dems will call the whole delay a Rovian plot designed to elicit the worst behavior from the left.

Cheney might have handled things better, but in general, your side is really shooting itself in the foot.

DennyI'm seeing a ... (Below threshold)
Chris:

Denny

I'm seeing a lot of comments like yours, to the effect that the public doesn't care about this story. Since you're waiting for the polls to come out, on what could you possibly base this, other than wishful thinking?

And while everyone's admiring Cheney for taking responsibility, how do you feel about the fact that his spokespeople blamed Whittington? Was that a stand-up thing to do, or should he be embarrassed by that? And remember, a spokesperson speaks for someone. If you want to claim that Cheney isn't the one who said it, then you've got to acknowledge that he's got to repudiate his spokespeople for stating a falsehood in his name.

And ed, "No doubt you also think that Clinton's illegal theft of over 1,000 confidential FBI files on prominent Republicans is just peachy too." This keeps getting repeated on this thread, possibly even by you. I've posted the link about this enough times that I've got to believe you know it's bullshit but say it anyway. At any rate, here it is again:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/07/29/MN74666.DTL

For those of you who don't want to follow the link, here's the lede: "Neither First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton nor any senior White House official was involved in seeking hundreds of confidential FBI background files about Reagan and Bush administration appointees, according to a report released yesterday by a special three-judge panel."

I wish you'd stop repeating this, because when I Google for the link I have to wade through three pages of links to right wing websites repeating the lie. It really gets annoying.

And by the way, ed, why do ... (Below threshold)
Chris:

And by the way, ed, why do you ask for a link if you're just going to declare the story "bullshit" and claim, based on exactly nothing, that the New York Times is "playing around at building up some smoke so people can point fingers and scream about a fire?" So I guess when something is in the press that supports you, you'll cite it, and when it doesn't support you, just declare it "bullshit." What a great way to be right all the time.

Hmmm.1 <blockquote... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

1

I'm no gun expert. But how do you square your 2.41mm diameter with the doctor's statement that the shot was 5mm? Do you think the doctor was wrong?

Because the report was that around 200+ pellets were removed and there's no physical way you can fit 200+ 5mm pellets into a 28 gauge shot shell.

Chris:"If you want... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Chris:

"If you want to claim that Cheney isn't the one who said it, then you've got to acknowledge that he's got to repudiate his spokespeople for stating a falsehood in his name."

What falsehood? Isn't it conceivable that (1) eye witnesses saw Whittington breach from local customs or whatever and fail to announce his return, thereby becoming a substantial cause of his shooting, and (2) Cheney standing up and taking full responsibiliity since he's the one who pulled the trigger? Those are not inconsistent, and certainly not mutually exclusive. Perhaps they're both at fault, and Cheney was gracefull enough to avoid blaming his buddy. What's wrong with that?

As for caring about the story, I'm basing my thoughts on common sense and comments from my friends on both sides of the aisle. The shooting is an interesting story. The hysteria about the delay is ridiculous and I predict it will harm the breathless Cheney critics more than the Administration. We'll see.

Hmmmm.@ Chris... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Chris

And by the way, ed, why do you ask for a link if you're just going to declare the story "bullshit" and claim, based on exactly nothing, that the New York Times is "playing around at building up some smoke so people can point fingers and scream about a fire?" So I guess when something is in the press that supports you, you'll cite it, and when it doesn't support you, just declare it "bullshit." What a great way to be right all the time.

1. I asked YOU for a link since you were making some unsupported assertions. And when you DID provide a link, the link provided did NOT support your assertion.

2. I did not call your assertion "bullshit". Frankly it is bullshit, but I didn't use that term in my reply to that specific comment. If you don't like being proved a hack or a jackass, then don't make unsupportable assertions.

3. I called the NYT's allegation that a Deputy was refused entrance onto the ranch on Saturday as "bullshit" because it frankly defies belief. As the NYT is the only source for this, to my knowledge, that seems to support my viewpoint.

Don't like it? Don't care.

Ed:If that's true,... (Below threshold)
Denny Crane:

Ed:

If that's true, it makes sense. It's been more than 25 years since I shot my shotgun (12-guage), but my hazy memory tells me 5mm shots would be huge cannon balls to a quail. I don't even think we used shot that big for ducks and geese in Alaska. But how could the Doc be so far off?

Hmmmm.@ Chris... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Chris

For those of you who don't want to follow the link, here's the lede: "Neither First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton nor any senior White House official was involved in seeking hundreds of confidential FBI background files about Reagan and Bush administration appointees, according to a report released yesterday by a special three-judge panel."

Yeah 'cause the FBI loves to hand over more than 1,000+ confidential FBI files on prominent Republicans to a low-level recently hired flack.

Go ahead. Pull the other one.

Hmmm.@ Denny Crane... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ Denny Crane

If that's true, it makes sense. It's been more than 25 years since I shot my shotgun (12-guage), but my hazy memory tells me 5mm shots would be huge cannon balls to a quail. I don't even think we used shot that big for ducks and geese in Alaska. But how could the Doc be so far off?

Yeah that doesn't even cover the damage a 5mm pellet will do to a quail's meat. There frankly isn't much meat on a quail to begin with. A pattern of 5mm shot would be both extremely difficult to hit anything on the wing with and it wouldn't leave much behind IMHO.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that around 300,000+ Americans die in hospitals every year due to the inability of doctor's and nurses to wash their hands. Seriously. I have End Stage Renal Disease and I've had more contact with the medical profession than most. And that contact has shown me that many in the medical field are wonderful professional people. And it's also shown me that quite a few shouldn't be trusted to flip burgers.

So I wouldn't bet the farm on that pellet measurement.

For the record, per the art... (Below threshold)
mantis:

For the record, per the article I linked above, the Washington Post claimed the deputy was turned away. The New York Times claimed that a deputy actually interviewed Cheney on Saturday! Of course, based on the statement released by the Sheriff neither of those is correct. The Dallas Morning News got it right though.

Hmmm.@ Rob<p... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ Rob

1.

According to her, she said they only drank Dr. Pepper during lunch, however, the V.P. said he had one beer. Which is it?

It could easily be both. Armstrong was the host, not Cheney's nurse.

2.

But she claimed on AP that she was over 100 yards away.

It's called separation. I.e. Armstrong was ahead of Cheney. Cheney was at the end, he thought, of the line. And Whittington was 30 yards away from Cheney when he accidently shot him. If Armstrong was keeping a decent separation from Cheney, assuming she was next in the line, then she probably was around 30-40 yards from Cheney. Add to that distance the additional distance to Whittington, and you'll get approximately that 100 yards. Not exactly, but what's exact about any of this.

On tv you see people walking next to each other when shooting birds, but I've never seen people do that in the field.

3.

Maybe she wasn't the best person?

Who else would be better? Whittington? Sure Cheney could possibly have done it. But frankly I assumed that Cheney would have been pretty shook up over the accident and wouldn't been in much shape to talk to the press.

IMHO if I were just involved in accidently shooting a friend I wouldn't be in the best state of mind to deal with reporters.

4.

The fact is, Dick just doesn't believe he has to say anything to the press about anything

And now you're making unfounded assumptions. All because the MSM is having a hissy-fit over not being given a chance to spin this any way they wanted to for 14 hours.

5.

Now as a true liberal, let me tell you straight up, that his 5-day delay was not the best approach to this.

And what 5 day delay was it? You mean the press release given out by Armstrong? You mean the press conference in the White House on *monday*?

6.

In fact, if Dick would have came out earlier (even with a press release) stating exactly what he said yesterday

He did.

He had Armstrong make a press release to a local Texas newspaper. There's very little that Cheney discussed in his interview that wasn't already available except perhaps his mea culpa.

7.

Waiting this long only turned this story into a feeding frenzy.

And Cheney is supposed to care if the MSM goes into a hissy-fit? What? If the MSM decides to have a hissy-fit over anything is Cheney supposed to drop everything and then give a press conference to reassure the MSM of it's own particular importance?

8.

You really need to drop this whole "waiting because facts will be wrong" B.S. Do you really believe that? Come on.

I frankly applaud the VP for bypassing the MSM. Frankly the MSM, along with the rest of you liberals, hate both Cheney and Bush. You've never given them a single chance and you've taken every single opportunity to bash them over the most ridiculous crap.

And now you're bitching because the VP thinks you're all full of it? Congratulations! Welcome to the rest of your life.

9.

If he would have came out Saturday night and made a statement, followed by a news conference on Monday, this story would have died long ago.

That's what he did. Armstrong made the statement for him because, as Cheney had stated before, he didn't have a regular entourage with him at the ranch.

10. blah blah blah, yada yada yada, liberal Bush bashing to follow.

Frankly all of you are starting to bore the hell out of me.

Hmmm.@ mantis... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ mantis

For the record, per the article I linked above, the Washington Post claimed the deputy was turned away.

Oops! Sorry. I got my sources mixed up I guess.

I should probably be paying more attention to this but since I'm getting my ass handed to me in Ages of Empires II right now, it's a lost cause.

And there goes my town center. Crap.

Man, you totally hit a home... (Below threshold)
Don:

Man, you totally hit a home run here. I'm willing to bet that exactly Zero Percent of these FiFi boys in the liberal media have ever hunted with bird shot. Ever. And I seriously doubt they would have been able to handle all of the complicated details about this case, either.

OK, someone please back up ... (Below threshold)
Chris:

OK, someone please back up the assertion that the media hates Bush. And please don't give me one of those "it's so obvious we don't even have to answer" non-responses. You folks keep repeating that mantra, and I don't believe it. So give me some examples of the way in which they have demonstrated their hatred. It's repeated so often on this board it should be a slam dunk.

And ed, I don't know why you bother to ask for cites. I provided a link to the story that states that a three-judge panel found the Clintons had no involvement in the FBI files, and you just say (essentially) "well they're wrong." Man, you really have figured out a way to be right all the time. Just live in your own little reality. I'm just curious, how long did your extensive investigation of the issue take?

And doesn't anyone see the irony in how people are endorsing Cheney's decision to let Armstrong be the news source, while at the same time going on at length with all the reasons why she should't be expected to know the story exactly? It's pretty hypocritical to keep saying the press would have screwed up the story, while continually making excuses for the people who actually did screw up the story.

And no one is saying Cheney should have talked to the press personally. He hasn't up to now, I'm sure he wasn't about to start. Do you people really think the only way he could have gotten the story out was to call the press himself? I'll bet he's actually got one or two people on his staff who are tasked with doing exactly that.

Ed writes:"RTFA. C... (Below threshold)
Ted:

Ed writes:

"RTFA. Cheney had a beer during lunch. This shooting incident happened at around 5pm. A human body can easily metabolise the minimal alcohol from a single beer within an hour."

Duh Ed. But you are simply accepting Cheney's word for this when we have a right to find the 14 hour delay suspicious. Remember that he didn't talk to authorities right away. It is entirely possible that he was drinking at the time of the accident and avoided authorities because of this. I am not saying he was drunk. I am saying that the circumstances are suspicious. Teddy Kennedy avoided the cops after he ran over a bridge. Should we just accept his story because he never admitted he was drunk?

"But that actually requires him to be, you know, *drunk*. No matter how much you wish it were the case there's no evidence whatsoever to support that."

Wrong. The public would not accept an excuse that Cheney was drinking but not drunk. If the police showed up right after the accident, smelled alcohol on Cheney's breath, and a blood test showed even a small amount of alcohol in Cheney's system then he would be gone. The people would not want a vice president that has a few and goes hunting regardless of whether he was legally drunk.

"Small town police will on the other hand deal reasonably with well known local people especially if that person was also recently the head of Fish & Game. What? You think Armstrong didn't tell them to just come by the next morning? It's not about power. It's about trusting the individuals you know well."

Thanks for admitting that these people probably got preferential treatment and the benefit of the doubt from the police. Unfortunately, police investigations should not be about trusting people you know. Especially after a friend of the person you trust just shot another guy in the face. Like I said, small town police will give preferential treatment to those they perceive as superior. They should not and it raises suspicions over what they might have found if they would have questioned Cheney right away.


"*shrug* your opinion. No doubt you also think that Clinton's illegal theft of over 1,000 confidential FBI files on prominent Republicans is just peachy too."

Oh, sorry for giving my opinion. Gee, I didn't realize what you were saying was proven fact.

"Frankly I have no plans to vote Republican in 2006 and 2008 because of my disgust so don't try hanging that on me."

Sure Ed.

It amuses me to no end when... (Below threshold)
senna:

It amuses me to no end when people assume the "MSM" is somehow "liberal". It's an impossibilty- because you have to appeal to stupid people for ratings/revenue. Stupid people think only in black & white- and they need closure and/or something or someone to blame immediately. That's why a conservative slant is the only way to go.

And by the way- the only reason some people actually think the media is "liberal" is becaue they are being told it is-- BY PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA.

The failure of Air America Radio proves that "liberal' does not sell (in the U.S., at least).

And notice again, how right wingers immediately deflect and blame some other entity (the media in this case) for any White House fuck-up, lie, perversion of the U.S. constitution, illegal war, etc... and never report the real story behind the story-- like why Cheney is still VP even though he is linked to so many backroom deals-- and why Bush does not invade his friends in Saudi Arabia.


Even Republicans know how c... (Below threshold)
C Linder:

Even Republicans know how corrupt and stupid the Bush administration is. Nixon and Bush are similar in every way: cover-ups, lies, and smear campaigns for anyone who says otherwise. Impeach Bush and Cheney before they mess up anything else.

Who told you that Air Ameri... (Below threshold)
john martin:

Who told you that Air America is a failure?
Their ratings are up. They add a station a month to their roster. Randi Rhodes just beat out Sean Hannity in the new Arbitron and is making Rush's lies mainstream. Exposing these right wing hate mongers is not easy. It can only be done with facts. Got Any? Here's one: The police were turned away from interviewing Cheney Sat. night because he was too busy having (another) cocktail instead of going to the hospital to see if the "friend" that he shot in the face was ok. Oh yeah, that's the kind of leader I want. A draft dodging, war mongering, coward drunk. Bring em on




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