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Just a couple things...

These are probably just straw-man arguments, but these are a couple of thoughts that have come to me with the latest illegal alien "compromise" bill being kicked around Congress, and the amnesty provisions thereof.

  • The liberals like to refer to these illegal aliens as "undocumented." If they've been here for longer than five years, then they can get that all forgiven very easily. If they can "document' their presence here for that long, why the hell couldn't they "document" themselves here legally in the first place?
  • A lot of illegal aliens use forged documents to get by nowadays -- drivers' license, social security cards, and the like. What's to keep them from faking more documents that "prove" that they were here long enough to qualify for the five-year amnesty plan?
  • Anyone care to speculate on the market price of forged documents that "prove" someone has been in the United States for five or more years if this bill looks like it might succeed?

I'm sure there are sensible, logical, reasonable answers for these and many more questions and concerns I find myself facing. There are many fine people, Democrats and Republicans, who support this plan and have wonderful, compelling reasons why it's so good for the country.

I just can't bring myself to believe them.


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Comments (14)

All excellent points J , I... (Below threshold)
virgo:

All excellent points J , IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE RATIONALIZING TRAIN OF THOUGHTS by both pro and cons on this subject..

How about for starters .. ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

How about for starters .. What will it do for the price of groceries if all the illegals are legalized ? You know the first thing will be Unions and huge hikes in wages ! And guess who will make up the difference. you got it ! us normal joes..

We won't have to worry abou... (Below threshold)
stan25:

We won't have to worry about this travesty going anywhere for a couple of weeks. The pro-amnesty crowd had their asses handed to them earlier, The Senate failed to get it out of the cloture vote. As you can imagine, the Swimmer and McPain are not very happy campers this morning. Hopefully, they will get an earful while they are home and forget about granting amnesty to the illegal aliens.

Dealing effectively with il... (Below threshold)

Dealing effectively with illegal immigration seems to be a job that Americans in congress don't want to do. Maybe we need some undocumented representation.

I'm a guest in this country... (Below threshold)
TonyG:

I'm a guest in this country and so normally I don't comment about immigration issues because you've been kind enough to let me be here to work but this latest bill has pushed me over my breaking point. Please don't construe anything I say as ungrateful for the chance to work here.

I work in Washington state. This state is an "at will" state. this means that my employer can, at any time, decided that they no longer have a job for me.

Under the terms of my H-1B if that happens I have 30 days to find another employer who is willing to sponsor my visa and my visa has to fit into the allocation for that year (which gets used up in about 4 months of the year).

I've been here for 8 years and in the green card process for about 4. I expect that we'll be able to file for a change of status around mid 2007 and then hopefully I'd get a greencard sometime in 2009/2010. 5 More years after that I'd be eligible to file for citizenship.

I'd just like to compare my situation, one of a person who followed all the rules, has been paying taxes for 8 years, with that proposed in the latest bill.

From how I read it an illegal immigrant who has been here for 5+ years can announce that, they pay a $2K fine and then, as long as they stay employed for another 6 years they can file for citizenship.

If I become unemployed at anytime I need to try and find someone willing to put me back under Visa and I have to fit in with the quota. If the illegal becomes unemployed they just get another job. This makes life much easier for the illegal as having someone do all the visa paperwork in 30 days is next to impossible so losing my job is a deportation event.

It also means that someone following the rules it will take around 12-13 years to get citizenship but someone who came here illegally can get it in 11. You'd be 2 years better off by doing things illegally than following the rules.

Not to mention the fact that you wouldn't have paid taxes for almost half of those years.

I understand immigration is a debate amongst citizens but I would like to think that the notion of justice would ensure that those of us who followed the rules would get immigration resolution much faster than someone who is illegal.

Thanks for lettting me rant and thanks for giving em the opportunity to come and work here. As an Australian, I've enjoyed every minute of my time here and I'm looking forward to spending more.

TonyG

Knowing that SSNs are only ... (Below threshold)
DJ:

Knowing that SSNs are only 9 digits, how long before "undocumented" fake SSNs start showing up as credit fraud cases? The odds are highly likely that dupes are going to be generated.

I can only begin to imagine the trouble that would be caused to a person financing a major purchase, only to find out some "undocumented" individual has stolen their identity and ruined it.

Maybe this is part of the explanation behind all the dead people that mysteriously cast ballots in our elections as well.

Hmmmm.Frankly it's... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

Frankly it's been clear that the entire citizenship process is completely screwed up. Not only it is entirely broken, rife with dead wood and even infiltrated by foreign governments but it's a ridiculous process artificially pumped up with endless rounds of the latest "monkey dance" nonsense.

It's clear that the process, and the entire department, needs to be cleared out, reformed, restarted and begun from scratch.

I can't help to think - wha... (Below threshold)
JAT:

I can't help to think - what happens if all these "undocumented" workers become US citizen - will these new citizens stop doing jobs that most Americans wont do?

Hum!

The price of labor per toma... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

The price of labor per tomato is measured in pennies. The lion share of what's paid for a tomato goes to distributers and possibly a little to the retailer.

Yes DJ You may be right ab... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yes DJ You may be right about illegal votes being cast by dead people, I wonder how many illegal alien votes were counted in the last election for JFK thats john f-n kerry ? I suspect He really lost by a lot more than 6,000,000 votes...

First off, thanks to Tony G... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

First off, thanks to Tony G who seems to be adhereing to the ridiculous legal immigration procedures of our country. There is no doubt, like Ed already stated, that the whole process is obscure and ripe with procedural insanity. You, more than anyone, should be the most pissed off about this obscene immigration (aka amnesty) bill, which thankfully now seems to be dead.

These Senators, both R and D, have become so elitist that they have lost touch with the American public. Most will say this happened a long time ago. I find it appaling that they would disregard such a large porion of the American public that wants strict enfortion of the current laws and construction of a wall along the border of Mexico.

I for one will not vote for any Senator that voted or approved of this bill or any other amnesty program.

TonyG, kudos for speaking u... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

TonyG, kudos for speaking up.

I am going through the citizenship process for another country (was born in the States), and I have had to jump through hoop after hoop to get this far.

I have followed the US illegal immigration brouhaha closely, and am simply in a state of shock over how blissfully ignorant the "amnesty" crowd has been, in terms of the downstream ramifications of such action on immigration law, taxation, and costs of providing essential community services, such as healthcare.

I suppose I expected Democrats to suck up to the amnesty arguments, but I'm watching in disbelief as Republicans try to get a piece of "ammy" action.

And I won't vote for anyone who supports such crap.

And before anyone tries to ... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

And before anyone tries to offer emotional arguments defending the "innocent, hard luck" illegals, let's have an answer as to why Vincente Fox, arguably the biggest hypocrite on the issue ever, bitches about any proposals by the US to stem illegal immigration from Mexico, while he seals his southern border as tight as a drum...?

To quote someone the Dems might remember, "it's the [mexican] ECONOMY, stupid...!"

TonyG, anyone who plays by ... (Below threshold)

TonyG, anyone who plays by the rules -- especially when they're as nonsensical as they are -- has my respect and is welcome in my country. Best of luck to you.




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