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Democrats Recruiting at Illegal Immigrant Protests

Updated

Scroll to read updates.

A number of photos were taken at yesterday's Dallas illegal immigrant protest, including this one of a Democrat recruitment flyer encouraging Mexican immigrants to vote for Democrats in 2006.

http://wizbangblog.com/images/2006/04/democrat-protest-literature-thumb.jpg
Click to enlarge


The fact that the Dems are recruiting at these protests isn't a surprise. It fits into their big picture of race and politics (which is why the flyer's visual puts Texas and Mexico together). The Democrats classify people based upon race and then work to corner the racial voting collectives. At this point, the white vote is already split down the middle, half voting Democrat, half Republican. The Dems have cornered the black voting collective with over 90% voting Democratic. If Democrats manage to corner the Hispanic vote like they have cornered the black vote, Republicans won't win the White House for a very long time. This is the Democrats' dream, so they are trying very hard to collectivize the Hispanic community by turning the immigration issue into another civil rights issue.

Immigrants who come from south of the border usually don't see themselves as a part of a collective. They tend to be more individual-minded, which works to the Republicans' benefit. However, these rallies and protests are helping reshape how these immigrants view themselves. As Power Line points out, one of the organizers of these rallies is A.N.S.W.E.R., a communist organization.

---

Some legal immigrants are against illegals getting citizenship. Of course, their views rarely get covered in the media and are drowned out by the mass protests:

Contrary to scenes of hundreds of thousands of united Latinos marching across the country in support of immigration reform, a sizable number of the ethnic group opposes the marches and strongly objects to illegal immigration.


...snip...

"There are a lot of Hispanics that are upset about the illegal just the same way as the Anglo population," said Barrios, a third-generation Mexican-American who traces his family's roots in Arizona to the 1870s. "That group is larger than many people would believe."

South Phoenix resident Elsie Orta said she has no plans to participate in Monday's march in Phoenix.

"Other Hispanics have told me to go to the demonstrations," said Orta, 55, who said her mother is from New Mexico and her father's family traces its roots to Spain. "I think it's hurting them. They're making a fool of themselves."

The Phoenix native believes Arizona is under siege by illegal immigrants who speak Spanish, use public services and take jobs away from citizens. Illegal immigrants, she said, should be deported.

"They want us to cater to them all the time," she said. "They're coming over here, they're taking our jobs. And now, everything has to be in English and Spanish? I don't think so. They need to go back."

Update: The folks at Polipundit are really disgusted with the stand some Republicans are taking on immigration reform.

The following Republican politicians, who would sell US citizenship to millions of illegal invaders, have permanently lost my support for any elected office:

President George W. Bush
Governor Jeb Bush (R-FL)
Senator John McCain (R-AZ)
Senator Bill Frist (R-TN)
Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS)
Senator Chuck Hagel (R_NE)
Senator Mike DeWine (R-OH)
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA)
Senator Pete Domenici (R-NM)
Senator Mel Martinez (R-FL)

I donated thousands of dollars to these politicians when they were running for office. I urged PoliPundit.com readers to vote for them and volunteer for their campaigns. No more. They are agents of Mexico, not representatives of the American people.

Immigration is now one of the top issues weighing on Americans' minds:

When people were asked this past week to name the top national problem that came to mind, 13 percent said immigration -- four times the number who said that in January. Roughly the same number, 14 percent of those polled, named the economy, according to the poll of 500 adults conducted April 3-5. The survey has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

Update II: What an interesting collection of groups that are attending these immigration protests. Michelle Malkin has the details.

Update III: More to my point, Michelle Malkin notes that Ted Kennedy is scheduled to speak to the crowd in DC at 4:30 pm EST today.

Update IV: Rush Limbaugh referenced Wizbang and my post on his radio show today. Thanks, Rush! You can read and listen to what Rush had to say here.


Previous:

Massive Immigrant Protest Scheduled for Monday
Immigration Compromise Collapse: Bloggers React
1965 Immigration Act
Houston Principal Flies Mexican Flag at School
America in Distress


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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Democrats Recruiting at Illegal Immigrant Protests:

» Conservative Outpost linked with Daily Summary

» The Great Satan linked with Democrats openly begging for illegal alien voters

» bennellibrothers.com linked with Democrats recruiting amongst immigration protesters

» The Zero Point linked with Recruiting A Little Early Now, Aren't They?

» Conservative Culture linked with Dems Hand US Over to Illegals

» TMH's Bacon Bits linked with Illegals Steal Jobs Americans Want

» Michelle Malkin linked with ILLEGAL ALIEN VOTER RECRUITMENT

» Wizbang Bomb Squad linked with What's Wrong With This Picture?

» Flopping Aces linked with Illegal Immigrants Protest

» All Things Beautiful linked with The Immigration Chip

» RightSide linked with Look what the Dems are doing now

» Coffee with CrankyBeach linked with What's Wrong With This Picture?

» The American Mind linked with Go to Rally, Get Credit

» Tel-Chai Nation linked with Muslims against immigration enforcement

» Truth Out Loud linked with Democrat recruiting begins in Mexas

» Super Fun Power Hour linked with "Today we march! Tommorow we vote!"

» THE GALVIN OPINION linked with I HAVE A BETTER PLAN TO SOLVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

» Church and State linked with At Least They Are Recruiting "Breathers"

» Donkey Stomp linked with Dems Want Mexicans or Rid of Texas?

» Wall Street Cafe aka La Ventanita linked with Illegal Alien Day - April 10, 2006

» Sensible Mom linked with To Democrats, Texas And Mexico Are The Same

» Seeing the Forest linked with Republicans Whipping Up Racial Hatred

» Mark Nicodemo linked with "Peaceful" Protest

» The Political Pit Bull linked with "Sí, Puedo Alcahuetear" (Video)

» Latino Issues, a Latino Conservative Blog linked with Latinos -- Used!

» Adam's Blog linked with Is it a Democratic Party Poster?

» Ogre's Politics & Views linked with Choose Your Side

» Politics Junky linked with These People Are All the Same

» LatinoPundit linked with Frames Galore Surrounding Immigrant Reform

» The Alleged Mental Case ... (bolt) linked with Cybersquattin' -- WWJD?

» Wizbang Podcast linked with Wizbang Podcast #18

» A Blog For All linked with Scenes and Overheard

» The Cool Blue Blog linked with Lock the Vote

» Citizen Journal linked with Papers? You don't need no stinking papers

» tribe.net: wizbangblog.com linked with Re: House passes Poll Tax bill? You have got to be kidding me.

Comments (185)

Lynch the donkey... (Below threshold)
Eon the terrible:

Lynch the donkey

My pics are gone. My camer... (Below threshold)

My pics are gone. My camera got smashed around Bryan and Harwood. I'll have a post later

OH NO! HERE COME THE COMMU... (Below threshold)
Clint:

OH NO! HERE COME THE COMMUNISTS!!

I wish you could support that accusation, but then you probably wish you could as well.

I'm curious about this:... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

I'm curious about this:

A number of photos were taken at yesterday's Dallas illegal immigrant protest,

Is Kim implying that the rallies are on behalf of illegal immigrants or is Kim implying that the protesters are illegal immigrants? If the latter, then what source has caused Kim to reach this conclusion? If Kim has concluded this without an outside source, then what was Kim's methodology for ascertaining the protesters' immigration status?

--|PW|--

Their illegal protests ! th... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Their illegal protests ! thats what !if they are not citizens they have no right to protest anything in this country, they should be protesting their own crummy country that they did not want to stay in..

God forbid that Democrats r... (Below threshold)
rex71704:

God forbid that Democrats represent the people. And since illegals can't vote, those people they're reminding to vote would be Americans. For shame. though, most of them aren't white. So, they can't be real Americans; they're just a "collective".

To the extent blacks and hispanics vote collectively, maybe it's because they see Republicans espousing racist nonsense like this. Maybe it's also because for the last 50 years Republican have pushed racist policies, and resisted reform. I'm talking basic stuff here like voting rights act, school desegregation, access to emergency health care for the children of illegals.

I really enjoy seeing the civil war among Republicans. You got your coalition of the rich & the bible-thumping rednecks. Their interests in this are opposite. Whose gonna win? My money's on the money.

RE: PWWell, let's ... (Below threshold)
MikeB:

RE: PW

Well, let's see. They're essentially protesting against a potential bill that deals with the status of _illegal_ immigrants. There's nothing in discussion (that I'm aware of) that changes anything to do with immigrants that are here _legally_. Thus, the protest is more aptly called an "illegal immigrant protest" than a "legal immigrant protest".

- MikeB

Selling out national securi... (Below threshold)

Selling out national security for votes again? Geez... Why don't they just drive down to Mexico with large trucks and round up all the Mexicans they can find and drive them back to herd them into the voting booths? It would only be a little bit more obvious than what they are doing now.

MikeB:RE:... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

MikeB:

RE: PW

Well, let's see. They're essentially protesting against a potential bill that deals with the status of _illegal_ immigrants. There's nothing in discussion (that I'm aware of) that changes anything to do with immigrants that are here _legally_. Thus, the protest is more aptly called an "illegal immigrant protest" than a "legal immigrant protest".

So am I to infer from this that you interpret Kim's comments as speaking to the topic of the rallies, rather than to the immigration status of the participants?

--|PW|--

PWYou are too inte... (Below threshold)

PW

You are too intelligent not to understand what Kim is writing.

These are pro-illegal alien demonstrations. The demand for "immediate legalization" is be explicit and implicit in a majority of the rhetoric and signs coming from these demonstrations. These are people both here legally and illegally, that believe the United States of American is wrong to have a border with Mexico in the first place.

The major organizers are far Left, anti-American groups like ANSWER and The World Can't Wait.

This gets real close to being a "civil rights march" organized by the KKK.

It's really too bad that we... (Below threshold)
lakestate:

It's really too bad that we don't have immigration laws and requirements like MEXICO.
Go to the link below to see what's required by non-Mexicans to work in Mexico. God forbid you should be an illegal immigrant in Mexico.

http://pubweb.fdbl.com/ihp8/global/media85.nsf/public-country-briefs/mexico?opendocument#Employment

Sorry, I don't know how to make this a link.

I guess it did link to the ... (Below threshold)
lakestate:

I guess it did link to the site (didn't know it would.)

What a refreshing change fr... (Below threshold)
nell:

What a refreshing change from the old-fashioned red white and blue campaign flyers. Red white and green. Hmmmmm. Wonder how the Dem's arrived at that "scheme"?

This just got mentioned on ... (Below threshold)
FormerHostage:

This just got mentioned on Rush Limbaugh.

As heard on the Rush Limbau... (Below threshold)

As heard on the Rush Limbaugh Show.

Somebody getting a Rushalan... (Below threshold)

Somebody getting a Rushalanche?!? Limbaush's talking about this and Wizbang right now... Congrtats!

Rush just mentioned this po... (Below threshold)
Rick Moran:

Rush just mentioned this post on his show.

Rush Limbaugh just... (Below threshold)
lowmal:

Rush Limbaugh just commented on this post and picture on his show at around 12:45..

He plugged the Wizbang! website, too!!

Congratulations on getting ... (Below threshold)

Congratulations on getting mentioned on Rush Limbaugh's radio show!

Great post!

You know what? The thought... (Below threshold)

You know what? The thought that comes to my mind is that it all comes down to these 11 million or so illegal immigrants being "sales leads." If you look at politics as a business, these are potential new customers. One party is going after them trying to win them as customers. The other party needs to either 1) do the same, or 2) find a way to quickly and reasonably negate them as potential new customers of their rivals. If they don't, they'll lose "market share" to their rivals. More thoughts on this at topleadgenerators.com.

Clint, try going back and a... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Clint, try going back and actually reading Kim's post and the links in it. You just might find an answer to your own question.

So am I to infer ... (Below threshold)
MikeB:
So am I to infer from this that you interpret Kim's comments as speaking to the topic of the rallies, rather than to the immigration status of the participants?

--|PW|--

When the "cartoon protest" were occuring were you similarly confused as to whether there were actual cartoons doing the protesting or are you just being not so subtly argumentative ?

- MikeB

I wouldn't worry too much D... (Below threshold)
Bxe:

I wouldn't worry too much Democrats are incompetent

I'd just like to thank the ... (Below threshold)
Maimonides:

I'd just like to thank the people of the Republican party for waking up the "sleeping giant" of US politics and proceeding to piss him off!

Sorry Dan, I thought your t... (Below threshold)

Sorry Dan, I thought your trackback was spam, which apparently it's not. It sure looks spamish though...

Argh. My trackbacks are sti... (Below threshold)

Argh. My trackbacks are still getting an error message.

My post here

You guys are funny.<p... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

You guys are funny.

I was there yesterday in Dallas.

Half a million people...

Do you know how many folks were at the rally in support of the house bill the day before?

Half a thousand. Maybe.

Republicans are so screwed. I almost feel sorry for ya'll.

The only power I have is my... (Below threshold)
Tim:

The only power I have is my vote. So this is the email arriving daily to my senator: "If you vote for amnesty, we will vote against you, no matter who your opponent is. If you want the hispanic vote, think about this, My wife, 2 sons, and I will will all vote against you. That means you will need 5 hispanic votes to be 1 vote ahead of your opponent. We are only 1 family among many."

AntigoneRallies in... (Below threshold)

Antigone

Rallies in favor of and promising Free Lunches will always draw the bigger crowd.

Not to mention counter protests of the TANSTAAFL tends to get those people beaten by the members of the Party of the Tolerant.

TimYou might remin... (Below threshold)

Tim

You might remind your senator/congressmen to look a bit beyond the left-agenda of most MSM coverage of the pro-illegal alien demonstrations that a significant portion of Americans of Hispanic descent are NOT pro-illegal alien...and they, too, will vote against him/her.

Darleen, the "why" doesn't ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Darleen, the "why" doesn't matter.

The "what" outweighs it in this case, and the "what" is that your side could only muster 1/1000th the turnout.

You can rationalize 'till the cows come home, missy. Won't change reality. You know what's real? Half a million people knocking on your doorstep, that's what.

I live in Dallas, and all t... (Below threshold)
Stormy70:

I live in Dallas, and all the Republicans were at the Nascar races over the weekend. Why go to a protest when you can drink beer and munch on nachos all day.

Mike:I have a reas... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

Mike:

I have a reason for my argumentativeness. Essentailly, I'm looking at stuff like this:

A vocal supporter of the bill is U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo. While he wasn't at the rally, Tancredo said in a telephone interview that the crowd would have dispersed rapidly had Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers shown up with buses and started checking identification.

To my eye, it's a thinly -- ore even barely or un- -- veiled attempt to paint all of the immigrants as illegal immigrants. And there's been other rhetoric to that effect, even among commenters on this blog.

--|PW|--

Cool. Lazy Republicans wer... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Cool. Lazy Republicans were out partying while real hard working folk took control of their political future. Perfect analogy.

Antigone,Those mas... (Below threshold)
TJIT:

Antigone,

Those massive anti war protests sure did a good job of keeping the US from invading Iraq, didn't they;-)

These protests might have about the same results when it comes to enacting stronger border security.

As opposed to what, hiring ... (Below threshold)
Andy:

As opposed to what, hiring them to do the gardening the way republicans do?

BTW, Was Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez an Illegal Alien?

Border security my ass. The... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Border security my ass. They will sub-contract out the security. Who will the sub hire? illegals. Then they'll contract out building the wall. Who will the contractor hire? illegals. Will the illegals pay back taxes? No ... Will the illegals pay the $1000 for citizenship? ...No... Who gets fucked? We Do.

Nope, they didn't.... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Nope, they didn't.

So?

And those protests were smaller, at least the ones inside the U.S. The largest ones were over in Europe. Are you saying we should make our foreign policy based on what foreigners tell us to do? What kind of American are you?

Antigone Why are ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone

Why are republicans screwed? these illegals cant vote , (unless they join the Kerry camp) i think your going to find in the final analysis, Your the one who takes it in the rear..

Antigone,500,000 p... (Below threshold)
Bob Jones:

Antigone,

500,000 people who can't vote somehow beat half a thousand AMERICAN TAX PAYING CITIZENS?

yeah right, when pigs fly. Illegals have no rights as citizens except a free bus ride home.

To my eye, it's a... (Below threshold)
MikeB:
To my eye, it's a thinly -- ore even barely or un- -- veiled attempt to paint all of the immigrants as illegal immigrants

I'd submit that a more accurate phrasing of what I believe you're attempting to argue might be:

it's a thinly veiled attempt to paint all supporters of illegal aliens as illegal aliens

I suspect that the statement isn't entirely inaccurate. The MSM seems to be intent on blurring the distinction between someone who is here legally (an immigrant) and someone who is here in violation of the law (a criminal).

- MikeB

Yeah a free bus r... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yeah
a free bus ride unless they happen to live in New Orleans , than there stuck ! oh well they can always blame Bush....

Ya'll assume that all of th... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Ya'll assume that all of the people at the protest were illegal?

That's seriously out of touch with reality.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. :)

But, even if they were, you still don't get it.

500k people SHOWED UP. They each have friends and family who DIDN'T.

But, by all means, keep your head in the sand. Makes our job easier.

AntigoneMissy?<... (Below threshold)

Antigone

Missy? Oh my, toss a bit of sexism in... wow, who woulda thunk it?

Rule of Law Americans figure we have... you know... rule of law .. on our side.

I know that's a thorn into the side of the "but our feelings are more important" ilk, but hey, you wanted to talk about reality.

schmuck

The Dems and Repubs have BO... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

The Dems and Repubs have BOTH been courting the Brown vote. Does "Big Tent" ring a bell? And of course, most U.S. hispanics oppose the Illegals flood. The earlier Mexican immigrants fled the Revolution and the subsequent sovietization of Mexico. And now the Revolution is following them!

Darleen, I'm a Texas libera... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Darleen, I'm a Texas liberal. Comes with the territory. If you're too wimpy to handle it, don't post a blog.

And don't talk to me about the rule of law. I love it when conservatives latch onto laws...except when they want to change, ignore, or break them. Seems to me that's most of the time these days. Congress passes a law, el presidente "interprets" it to be whatever he wants. Is that the "rule of law"? Judges make decisions you don't like, and ya'll threaten them with violence. Is that the "rule of law"? Lobbyists are invited to write the laws they like and the people are shut out. Is that the "rule of law"?

PuhLEASE.

No one buys that line anymore, least of all the half million folks I saw yesterday.

Your time is done. Start getting used to it.

People like Tim and the oth... (Below threshold)
Robert:

People like Tim and the others up-post who think they can "threaten" Republicans by not voting for them crack me up.

They still think the Republican politicians work for people like them.

They don't. In fact, they don't care about regular Americans like you. It's quaint to think they do, though.

The politicians aren't going to side with those they work for. They're going to side for those that pay them.
That's the business community and big corporations, who don't want the cheap labor spigot turned off.

It's cute to think they care about the little guy, though.

And it's a riot to watch these people actually realize who they've been voting for.

BTW, the Dems (Republican-Lite) aren't MUCH better.
Slightly better, but not much.

Well, if fat pill-head Limb... (Below threshold)
Devil's Advocate:

Well, if fat pill-head Limbaugh mentions it on his show, it must be both meaningful AND trustworthy...

Antigone,You are a... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Antigone,

You are a shining example of why the Dem party is in such a pathetic state in Texas!

Keep up the good work!

-syb

Antigone Im sure ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone

Im sure you meant to say some judges legislate laws that are not constitutional, and i see no one threatning judges , unless you call appointing more qualified ones violent!
if lobbyists are writing laws than we need to vote those clowns out that are being bought off.
the pres is free to exercise his duties under the constitution , in fact hes required to..

Dems are recruiting at immi... (Below threshold)
CarrieN:

Dems are recruiting at immigration events? Big deal! Republicans have recruited at abortion clinic protests and pro-life events for years! It's called grassroots organizing. Where have you been all this time?

It is,nt GRASS ROOTS when ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

It is,nt GRASS ROOTS when those roots are planted in another country !

virgo, I'm sure most of the... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

virgo, I'm sure most of the half million people I saw yesterday could express themselves in English better than you can.

Way to represent the conservative viewpoint, buddy.

I hope this blog isn't tryi... (Below threshold)
Rob Filomena:

I hope this blog isn't trying to imply that there is a moral high ground to be won somewhere in the battle fo the hearts and minds of the potential electorate.

Republicans under the leadership of Karl Rove have set new lows in recruiting tactics and bring-out-the-vote campaigns, but I don't expect to hear any vigorous discussions here on that note.

Where is the critical thinking on the right these days?

Hmmm.I see we've g... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

I see we've got a new crop of lefties.

The "what" outweighs it ... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

The "what" outweighs it in this case, and the "what" is that your side could only muster 1/1000th the turnout.

Oh Really?

Time Poll: Americans Back Border Fence, Deportations and Denying Benefits
[...]
By a margin of 56 to 40 percent, respondents said they want the wall built from sea to shining sea - not just the 700 miles stipulated in the House plan, a proposal the press calls "draconian."
[...]
Most, 51 percent, said the U.S. would be "better of" if all illegals were deported and the border sealed to prevent any more from coming in. Just 38 percent disagreed.
[...]
A full 75 percent say illegals should be denied government supplied health care and food stamps, with 21 percent saying they should get those benefits. A majority, 69 percent, say illegals shouldn't be allowed to get U.S. drivers licenses.

And let's not forget this


Overall, 53% say
people who are in the U.S. illegally should be
required to go home, while 40% say they should be
granted some kind of legal status that allows them to stay here.
[...]
Americans support this idea with two-thirds (67%) saying that illegal immigrants
should not be eligible for social services provided by state and local governments. As with
support for the measure to enforce the prohibition on employment, this is a broadly based view.

That last one comes from the Pew Hispanic Center, hardly a bastion of conservative thought. You can have your 1 million marchers, so what?

Dems are recruiting at immigration events? Big deal!

I guess you didn't notice the lovely little reconquista picture on the flyer. It's nice to see you guys openly declare that you're traitors for once.

Republicans under the le... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Republicans under the leadership of Karl Rove have set new lows in recruiting tactics and bring-out-the-vote campaigns, but I don't expect to hear any vigorous discussions here on that note.

This coming from the party that gave us tire slashing voter vans, vandalizing RNC buildings, throwing urine filled baloons at the NYPD during the Republican Convention, and the East St. Louis fraud scandal. Not to mention the fact that you can't speak on a college campus without having shoes or pies thrown at you.

Jordan, I thought conservat... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Jordan, I thought conservatives didn't pay attention to polls. Seriously, you sound like an actuary who hasn't been out of his mother's basement for a week. Can't you argue ideas?

And, if you want to find a traitor, look no further than the Leaker in Chief.

Jordan,As I said, ... (Below threshold)
Rob Filomena:

Jordan,

As I said, there is no moral high-ground in ths fight.


Ed,

Your posting precisely illuminates the problem: The thinking that if you criticize the right, you must be on the left. Thanks for the lesson in tunnel vision. If you weren't so busy trying to be right, you may see that the right gets it wrong occassionally.

could you imagine the smell... (Below threshold)
josh:

could you imagine the smell at those rallies?
all those mexicans and muslims who dont know what a shower is....
and ted kennedy should be in jail for killing that girl in his car!!!

Rob Filomena , Watch out fo... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Rob Filomena , Watch out for hmmmmm-ed! He demanded to see my voter registration card a couple of days ago! AND he brought along Darleen for muscle!

Can't you argue ideas?</... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Can't you argue ideas?

That's rich coming from somebody who's every post in this thread is about the number of protestors who showed up, complete with a couple of ad hominem attacks.

I tell you what, when you come up with an idea, I'll gladly address it.

And, if you want to find a traitor, look no further than the Leaker in Chief.

I wasn't aware that it was illegal to release declassified information. Hell, every bureaucrat in America should be in jail then. By the way, it is illegal to enter this country without a visa.

Don't question the Dems pat... (Below threshold)
Sweetie:

Don't question the Dems patriotism! In their recruiting poster they did draw a line between Texas and Mexico after all.

So they weren't able to make the two areas straddling the line different colors - I'm sure that's simple economics: those four color posters are outrageously expensive.

Jordan,Who said an... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Jordan,

Who said anything about illegal?
The point was about being a traitor (your post, remember?).

Unless you're saying that having something (lovely little reconquista picture) on your flyer is illegal.

Regarding the voting prefer... (Below threshold)
TGGP:
They are really influencing... (Below threshold)
Nahanni:

They are really influencing the voters for sure....

Guess no one told the Dems that their desired voter gain from getting the illegals to vote for them is going to lose them ALOT more votes then they hope to gain.

But, then again, math has never been the DNC's long suit...

Bush: approval ratings stuc... (Below threshold)
Devil's Advocate:

Bush: approval ratings stuck in the mid-30s. GOP-controlled Congress: approval ratings stuck in the mid-20s.

But, then again, math has never been the rightnutters' long suit...

Republicans should get them... (Below threshold)
F Lee:

Republicans should get themselves out there to try to recruit new voters, too. Though it's hard to imagine how anyone would be stupid enough to reelect Republicans to Congress, considering all the damage they've inflicted to the federal budget and national security.

Yes but Sweetie they color... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yes but Sweetie they colored Texas and Mexico "Red" I would have thought they ,d have opted for Blue , than they could name it Texaco or TexMex or heck even the Alamo..

DA,Take a look at ... (Below threshold)
Nahanni:

DA,

Take a look at Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Kennedy's approval numbers sometime. And remember that those polls over sample dem's.

Hispanics are the wrong crowd for them to go after votes in anyway. They are by and large very religious people who believe that things that the dems support like abortion and gay marriage to be morally wrong. And they are not as attached to the dems as the black race warriors are.

All in all this is not a winning strat for the dems.

Hey Antigone You a... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Hey Antigone

You arrogant pompous snob, how much money did you make selling mexican flags at that rally ?

Boy, it sure is comforting ... (Below threshold)

Boy, it sure is comforting to know that the DNC would willingly concede my home state of Texas to the status of a mere providence of Mexico in exchange for a cheap vote; it's always nice to see where the bottom line of their loyalty really lies.

The immigration "debate" is... (Below threshold)
M Feau:

The immigration "debate" is nothing more than another attempt by the Republican leadership to obfuscate real issues - like the issue of the criminally bad job that our current administration is doing on all fronts.

Don't fall for it. It's BS.

Some people say that Bush is getting negative marks on immigration, others say that it's a neutral issue for him. Considering how much he and his cohorts have completely hosed people in this country, even a "neutral" rating on an issue would come off as a shining positive in comparison.

These very religious Mexica... (Below threshold)
Robert:

These very religious Mexicans.

Are they (like us Americans) looking for 3rd party to vote for?

Yes... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yes

Oh, and ya'll are going to ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Oh, and ya'll are going to welcome them with open arms, I take it? Yeah, right.

virgo, I made no money. Lost a bit, actually. As I was leaving I saw a woman guiding an alderly lady to the front of the crowd. I'd brought a portable chair for my uncle to sit on, so I gave it to her because she plainly needed it more than me. Put me out about $30. But it was well worth it. Maybe that act showed the folks that saw it (probably a good 200, or so) that all gringos aren't assholes like the folks on this board.

>>Take a look at Kerry, Hil... (Below threshold)
wrabkin:

>>Take a look at Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Kennedy's approval numbers sometime. And remember that those polls over sample dem's.

Umm... I have. Hillary is somewhere in the mid-sixties in the state she represents. Just about twice what Bush has with his constituents.

Hillary has twice the supp... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Hillary has twice the support in NY than GW does in Texas ? i dont think so..

By the way what are Kennedys #,s?

Anti M pandering again
or maybe your as good at telling a sob story as thee SCHLICKMIESTER...

FeauOh... you mean... (Below threshold)

Feau

Oh... you mean like an economy that has had 17 + quarters in a row? With record low unemployment?

THAT "criminal" incompetence?

Course these pro-illegal alien demonstrations with their "fuck Bush" signs wouldn't have a THING to do with reality as Bush's proposed policies are inline with McCain and Kennedy

Either these demonstrations are just more of the usual BDS via ANSWER or it underlines the rhetoric coming from the organizers..they do NOT recognize the sovereinty of the US and demand open borders and immediate citizenship.

Oh, and ya'll are going ... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Oh, and ya'll are going to welcome them with open arms, I take it? Yeah, right.

I wholeheartedly encourage people to immigrate here legally. I'll buy a legal immigrant a beer anytime. I love it how you unhinged open borders types always resort to thinly veiled cries of racism.

My fiance immigrated here from China. She waited in line for a visa while 1 million people per year pissed on her by cutting in front of her. And now they ask for equal benefits? I don't think so. She's just as angry about it as I am; is she a Xenophobe, too?

And the icing on the cake is that these marchers have to be explicitly told to carry American flags instead of Mexican flags and to leave their "Azlan" signs at home. I might actually have some sympathy for them if they felt an ounce of loyalty for this country. If they think Mexico is so great then they can stay there.

Who said anything about illegal?
The point was about being a traitor (your post, remember?).

Fine, I'd love to hear how releasing declassified information makes one a traitor.

Very low unemployment? Yes.... (Below threshold)
Daniel:

Very low unemployment? Yes. Good jobs? No. Wage growth has been stagnant despite the growth in the economy. This is a economic boom for the top of the income and wealth curve. This should not come as a surprise since the enacted policy changes were specifically designed to create that kind unequal growth. In fact, the economy is even more of a scandal than it appears to be because wage growth should never be flat during this kind of aggregate growth period.

By the way, whatever the Dems recruiting goals here, let's definitely remember that this is a grassroots movement at its finest, spurred if anything by Republicans bringing illegal immigration to the floor of Congress (not unjustifiably). Neither democrats nor republicans are in any kind of position to put together this type of movement.

Protests, by illegals? Bad... (Below threshold)

Protests, by illegals? Bad tactics. Or, as I say here,

http://forgottenprophets.blogspot.com/2006/03/bad-tactics.html

Bad Tactics.


J

Jordan,Not sure if I... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Jordan,
Not sure if I can help you with that. (Although I hope you're not talking about the selective declassification to selective (i.e. sympathetic) reporters).

GWB is a traitor because he looked the other way (I'm being generous, it's more like he set it up) when corporations robbed our Treasury.

You can reply with disdain, obfuscation or whatever else you want. I'm fine with the fact you know (whether you admit it or not) that I'm right.

The "what" outweighs it ... (Below threshold)
Todd:

The "what" outweighs it in this case, and the "what" is that your side could only muster 1/1000th the turnout.

You can rationalize 'till the cows come home, missy. Won't change reality. You know what's real? Half a million people knocking on your doorstep, that's what.

LOl....Pete Sessions was on the radio today in Dallas, he was asked about the "marchers", he said he was a little surprised by the numbers.
Then he said, what the papers and news organizations arent reporting, because they dont know this is, that his phone is ringing non-stop with pissed off ("angry & upset") voters calling him and emailing him, that he cannot begin to count them all.

See, the mexicans, the illegal aliens arent seing that, they think the citizens of this country are just sitting back taking all of this and are running scared - wrong, pissed off is a better word.

The think they have this won, this "civil rights" movement, is really gonna go somewhere, it will, but not like they are "demanding" now, and it was a nice change of tactics they are pulling right now. But that will go away, just as soon as they dont get thier way, it will get ugly, and they will show thier true intentions then.

The dems should be ashamed of themselves for having ted kennedy in office, this is nothing new for them

Here is an economic analysi... (Below threshold)
Devil's Advocate:

Here is an economic analysis of the immigration issue from The Economist (hardly a leftie rag!)

I doubt very much that you, rightnutters, have the basic reading comprehension skills, never mind the intellectual baggage to understand this article, but here it is nonetheless:

Economics focus

Myths and migration

Apr 6th 2006
From The Economist print edition


Do immigrants really hurt American workers' wages?


EVERY now and again America, a nation largely made up of immigrants and their descendants, is gripped by a furious political row over whether and how it should stem the flood of people wanting to enter the country. It is in the midst of just such a quarrel now. Congress is contemplating the erection of a wall along stretches of the Mexican border and a crackdown on illegal workers, as well as softer policies such as a guest-worker programme for illegal immigrants. Some of the arguments are plain silly. Immigration's defenders claim that foreigners come to do jobs that Americans won't--as if cities with few immigrants had no gardeners. Its opponents say that immigrants steal American jobs--succumbing to the fallacy that there are only a fixed number of jobs to go around.

One common argument, though not silly, is often overstated: that immigration pushes down American workers' wages, especially among high-school dropouts. It isn't hard to see why this might be. Over the past 25 years American incomes have become less equally distributed, typical wages have grown surprisingly slowly for such a healthy economy and the real wages of the least skilled have actually fallen. It is plausible that immigration is at least partly to blame, especially because recent arrivals have disproportionately poor skills. In the 2000 census immigrants made up 13% of America's pool of workers, but 28% of those without a high-school education and over half of those with eight years' schooling or less.


In fact, the relationship between immigration and wages is not clear-cut, even in theory. That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.

However, even if wages do not change on average, immigration can still shift the relative pay of workers of different types. A large inflow of low-skilled people could push down the relative wages of low-skilled natives, assuming that they compete for the same jobs. On the other hand, if the immigrants had complementary skills, natives would be relatively better off. To gauge the full effect of immigration on wages, therefore, you need to know how quickly capital adjusts and how far the newcomers are substitutes for local workers.

City to city
Empirical evidence* is as inconclusive as the theory. One method is to compare wage trends in cities with lots of immigrants, such as Los Angeles, with those in places with only a few, such as Indianapolis. If immigration had a big effect on relative pay, you would expect this to be reflected in differences between cities' wage trends. David Card, of the University of California, Berkeley, is one of the leading advocates of this approach. His research suggests that although there are big differences between cities' proportions of immigrants, this has had no significant effect on unskilled workers' pay. Not everyone is convinced by Mr Card's technique. His critics argue that the geographical distribution of immigrants is not random. Perhaps low-skilled natives leave cities with lots of immigrants rather than compete with them for jobs, so that immigration indirectly pushes up the supply of low-skilled workers elsewhere (and pushes down their wages). Mr Card has tested the idea that immigration displaces low-skilled natives and found scant evidence that it does.

An alternative approach, pioneered by George Borjas, of Harvard University, is to tease out the effect of immigration from national wage statistics. Mr Borjas divides people into categories, according to their education and work experience. He assumes that workers of different types are not easily substitutable for each other, but that immigrants and natives within each category are. By comparing wage trends in categories with lots of immigrants against those in groups with only a few, he derives an estimate of immigration's effect. His headline conclusion is that, between 1980 and 2000, immigration caused average wages to be some 3% lower than they would otherwise have been. Wages for high-school drop-outs were dragged down by around 8%.

Immigration's critics therefore count Mr Borjas as an ally. But hold on. These figures take no account of the offsetting impact of extra investment. If the capital stock is assumed to adjust, Mr Borjas reports, overall wages are unaffected and the loss of wages for high-school drop-outs is cut to below 5%.

Gianmarco Ottaviano, of the University of Bologna, and Giovanni Peri, of the University of California, Davis, argue that Mr Borjas's findings should be adjusted further. They think that, even within the same skill category, immigrants and natives need not be perfect substitutes, pointing out that the two groups tend to end up in different jobs. Mexicans are found in gardening, housework and construction, while low-skilled natives dominate other occupations, such as logging. Taking this into account, the authors claim that between 1980 and 2000 immigration pushed down the wages of American high-school drop-outs by at most 0.4%.

None of these studies is decisive, but taken together they suggest that immigration, in the long run, has had only a small negative effect on the pay of America's least skilled and even that is arguable. If Congress wants to reduce wage inequality, building border walls is a bad way of going about it.



* "The Labor Demand Curve Is Downward Sloping: Reexamining the Impact of Immigration on the Labor Market". George J. Borjas. Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2003

"The Evolution of the Mexican-Born Workforce in the United States". George J. Borjas and Lawrence Katz. NBER Working Paper 11281, April 2005

"Is the New Immigration Really So Bad?". David Card. NBER Working Paper 11547, August 2005

"Rethinking the Gains from Immigration: Theory and Evidence from the US". Gianmarco I. P. Ottaviano, Univerity of Bologna and Giovanni Peri, University of California, Davis, January 2006




Copyright © 2006 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.


It all still boils down to ... (Below threshold)
scrapiron:

It all still boils down to the same thing. The rich, and some not so rich Holywood wonks are using the mexicans as slaves and don't want to give up the slavery. Today one of the antiquie MSM outlets said there would be a lot of lawns that didn't get mowed. Keep em illegal/criminal and if they ask for fair pay threaten them with the INS, really keeps them in line and cheap. You are either legal or a criminal sold into slavery.

GWB is a traitor because... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

GWB is a traitor because he looked the other way (I'm being generous, it's more like he set it up) when corporations robbed our Treasury.

I'm guessing it would to too much to ask for you to provide some evidence for such an assertion? I damn sure don't believe you're right (even though you tell me I do).

so, the DEMS are supporting... (Below threshold)

so, the DEMS are supporting a TX & Mexico merger now? That's utterly despicable.

smells like tacos to me...<... (Below threshold)
josh:

smells like tacos to me...

Ah, yes let's talk economic... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Ah, yes let's talk economics, Devil's Advocate. Let's start here:

Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state's tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's ``bracero'' program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964, Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen five times.
[...]
Since 1980, the number of Hispanics with incomes below the government's poverty line (about $19,300 in 2004 for a family of four) has risen 162 percent. Over the same period, the number of non-Hispanic whites in poverty rose 3 percent and the number of blacks, 9.5 percent.


Now on to here:

Most farming -- livestock, grains, etc. -- doesn't heavily rely on hired workers. Only about 20 percent of the farm sector does, chiefly those areas involving fresh fruit and vegetables...On a $1 head of lettuce, the farm worker gets about 6 or 7 cents, roughly 1/15th of the retail price.

And finally, the good ole' NYT:

The quality-of-life problems of border communities are not well publicized, and they are not the kind of issue that makes or breaks government policy. But some immigration experts say these problems add another point of view to a national debate that has lately focused on the risks to the illegal immigrants. A General Accounting Office report released in August said that other communities where border enforcement had increased had experienced economic improvement and lower rates of crimes like theft.

But wait! There's more:

High-technology EDs have degenerated into free medical offices. Between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid. Another 24 California hospitals verge on closure. Even ambulances from Mexico come to American EDs with indigents because the drivers know that EMTALA requires accepting patients who come within 250 yards of a hospital.
[...]
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of outstanding
homicide warrants are for illegal aliens, as are 66 percent of fugitive felony warrants.
[...]
Stockton Police say that 44 percent of all “hit and runs” are by illegal aliens.

Jordan,I posted a ... (Below threshold)
Devil's Advocate:

Jordan,

I posted a well-resarched article - including the academic sources .

You are entitled to your own opinion, but I suggest that you check out the academic sources.

The economic impact of illegal immigration is clearly up for grabs. That is if you are willing to be open to actually check out the work done by academics whose primary concern is their reputation for intellectual honesty.

If you believe that you know better than academic economists who are well trained in quantitative analysis, then , by all means, go ahead with your foregone conclusions.

The fact is that one day Am... (Below threshold)
babs:

The fact is that one day America will eventually become a predominantly Latino country, some say within 50 years. If the folks here are so concerned about preserving American (white) culture then treating Latino people like excrement who have no right to pursue a better life (like our own ancestors did) will certainly assure that "our culture" will be replaced and opposed instead of assimilated.

If you want Latino immigrants to embrace American culture and language, to "become" Americans the way that you define American, then start by considering the best way to do that.

As for the people at the protests, some are documented, some aren't, plenty are voting citizens or their children will be. Consider how much first impressions matter-- waging a war on Latinos as though they're all terrorists will not help your cause.

They didn't choose to be born in poor countries any more than any of us "chose" to be Americans. Demonizing immigrants for risking everything, often their lives, all because of their dreams of a better life is deeply anti-American.

A mention and a link by El ... (Below threshold)

A mention and a link by El Rushbo! I heard it with my own ears and it was well deserved. Great Post!

Hey, here's a nice imigrant... (Below threshold)
Andy:

Hey, here's a nice imigrant story:

According the U.S. government, all male immigrants - legal and otherwise - are required by U.S. law to register for selective service.

According to the National Center for Immigration Law, one in ten U.S. soliders who have DIED in Iraq have been immigrants. Five percent of those serving in our military are illegal immigrants.

The first soldier to die for the United States in the current war in Iraq was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala.

He died for you.

http://alisavaldesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2006/04/more-stupidity-in-my-in-box.html


Are Democrats on the ballot... (Below threshold)

Are Democrats on the ballot in Mexico this year too?

Or are they just trying to encourage Mexicans to vote in Texas?

Great to hear about you from Maha Rushie... and that photo of the poster is GREAT!

That is if you are willi... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

That is if you are willing to be open to actually check out the work done by academics whose primary concern is their reputation for intellectual honesty.

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=7696

Philip Martin, professor of agricultural and resource economics, is an authority on migration and labor issues, particularly agricultural labor. He can discuss current legislation in Congress related to guest worker programs, labor and migration as they affect U.S. and Mexico relations. Martin has published extensively on labor, migration, economic development and immigration policy issues and has testified before Congress and state and local agencies on those issues. He has co-authored a report urging California policymakers to develop strategies that will encourage and hasten the integration of immigrants into the state's economy and society. He also maintains a Web publication, Migration Dialogue http://migration.ucdavis.edu/, with extensive information about world migration issues. Contact: Philip Martin (fluent in Spanish), Agricultural and Resource Economics, plmartin@ucdavis.edu.

And Ms. Cosman's article was published in a scholarly journal (The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons), and includes 98 sources for you to verify.

Finally, the GAO study is available for you to look at, as well.

And your article only mentions the effect on wages caused by illegals, which I never mentioned in any of my posts.

If you want Latino immig... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

If you want Latino immigrants to embrace American culture and language, to "become" Americans the way that you define American, then start by considering the best way to do that.

Apparently, you don't understand the difference between the words "latino" and "illegal." Why don't you show me an immigration proposal that specifically targets "latinos?"

Latino immigrants get the same treatment that immigrants from everywhere else get. Illegal latinos get the same treatment that other illegal immigrants get.

Illegals are not welcome; immigrants are. Contrary to your belief, coming to America is a privilege, not a right. If you cut in front of all of the decent people waiting in line to come here, then you deserve nothing more than the boot.

They didn't choose to be born in poor countries any more than any of us "chose" to be Americans. Demonizing immigrants for risking everything, often their lives, all because of their dreams of a better life is deeply anti-American.

Yeah, and they also chose to come here illegally. They have to deal with those consequences. I didn't choose to pay for their healthcare or their children's education. America can't afford to be the world's welfare state.

Andy, this has to be the fu... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Andy, this has to be the funniest sentence I've read all day (from the link you posted):

So your taxes are going to pay for their free health care. This crisis has been created by our being the only Industrialized Western Democracy on EARTH without universal health care.

Tell me Andy, where do you think the funds for that universal health care might come from? The government? And where does the government get its funds from? Oh yeah, taxes! The same thing that goes to pay for the health care of the uninsured. Imagine that.

Now, let's do a little exercise in critical thinking here: There's is a crucial inconsistency between the following 2 sentences. See if you can spot it:

1)According to the National Center for Immigration Law, one in ten U.S. soliders who have DIED in Iraq have been immigrants.

2)Five percent of those serving in our military are illegal immigrants.

Did you spot it? The word illegally was magically AWOL from the 1st sentence, making your comparison completely meaningless. But, lest you pursure this absurdity from another angle, let's consult the Times:

In a correction today, the Times said as follows:

"An article on Feb. 9 about the military's recruitment of Hispanics referred incompletely to the belief of some critics that Hispanics in the Iraq war and blacks in the Vietnam War accounted for a disproportionate number of casualties. Statistics do not support the belief. Hispanics, who are about 14 percent of the population, accounted for about 11 percent of the military deaths in Iraq through Dec. 3, 2005. About 12.5 percent of the military dead in Vietnam were African-Americans, who made up about 13. 5 percent of the general population during the war years.

Hmmm.That... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

That last one comes from the Pew Hispanic Center, hardly a bastion of conservative thought. You can have your 1 million marchers, so what? Dems are recruiting at immigration events? Big deal!

I'd like to point out that people opposed to illegal immigration don't have to protest because we're the *majority* and have the stronger position.

Generally only those with the weakest points assemble to protest because they need the illusion of numbers to portray political power.

We don't need that illusion because we HAVE the political power.

Hmmm.They... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

They didn't choose to be born in poor countries any more than any of us "chose" to be Americans. Demonizing immigrants for risking everything, often their lives, all because of their dreams of a better life is deeply anti-American.

As a first generation immigrant originally from South Korea I can certainly attest that I didn't choose to be born there in 1964. I also didn't choose to not be born into the Royal family of the UK, a celebrity or into a very wealthy family.

*shrug* birth is a crapshoot and neither the exalted nor the humble status of which excuses anything.

They didn't choose to be... (Below threshold)

They didn't choose to be born in poor countries any more than any of us "chose" to be Americans.

Problem is, many of those "poor" countries do not have to be poor ... they have CHOSEN to act in ways that fail their citizens.

Where is their responsibility for creating this mess? Why aren't they being compelled to leverage their resources, so their people can live free and pursue happiness in their own nation, instead of straining American resources and making a travesty of our soverignty?

Mexico is a prime example of such a nation.

I find it quite ironic that the same people who wish to strain at every little gnat to claim this Administration has fostered a "culture of corruption", have no problems with -- and are implicitly advocating -- the continued subsidizing of a truly corrupt politio-economic culture, by blindly continuing to take in the people they have failed, while ignoring how that culture has robbed these people of their national legacy ...

... and is now robbing us of not only our own legacy, but our soverignty.

Um ... could somebody tell ... (Below threshold)

Um ... could somebody tell Polipundit that the Bush brothers aren't running for any elected offices anymore... due to, like, Florida term limits and the U.S. Constitution? Thanks...

You can email President Bus... (Below threshold)

You can email President Bush, VP Cheney, Congressional Leaders and Rush Limbaugh from my eclectic homepage. Check it out here......
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/8889

Congratulations on getting ... (Below threshold)
vietvet:

Congratulations on getting mentioned on Rush Limbaugh's radio show!
Great post!
Posted by: Mr. Right at April 10, 2006 12:49 PM

HAHAHAHA! I didn't realize that being mentioned on a drug addicted, draft dodging, fat slob's radio show is something to be congratulated for. You right-wingers become more pathetic every day.

And what's the GOP up to? ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

And what's the GOP up to? Read on......

PHONE JAMMING RECORDS POINT TO WHITE HOUSE

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer Mon Apr 10, 4:55 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Key figures in a phone-jamming scheme designed to keep New Hampshire Democrats from voting in 2002 had regular contact with the White House and Republican Party as the plan was unfolding, phone records introduced in criminal court show.

The records show that Bush campaign operative James Tobin, who recently was convicted in the case, made two dozen calls to the White House within a three-day period around Election Day 2002 -- as the phone jamming operation was finalized, carried out and then abruptly shut down.

The national Republican Party, which paid millions in legal bills to defend Tobin, says the contacts involved routine election business and that it was "preposterous" to suggest the calls involved phone jamming.

The Justice Department has secured three convictions in the case but hasn't accused any White House or national Republican officials of wrongdoing, nor made any allegations suggesting party officials outside New Hampshire were involved. The phone records of calls to the White House were exhibits in Tobin's trial but prosecutors did not make them part of their case.

Democrats plan to ask a federal judge Tuesday to order GOP and White House officials to answer questions about the phone jamming in a civil lawsuit alleging voter fraud.

Repeated hang-up calls that jammed telephone lines at a Democratic get-out-the-vote center occurred in a Senate race in which Republican John Sununu defeated Democrat Jeanne Shaheen, 51 percent to 46 percent, on Nov. 5, 2002.

Besides the conviction of Tobin, the Republicans' New England regional director, prosecutors negotiated two plea bargains: one with a New Hampshire Republican Party official and another with the owner of a telemarketing firm involved in the scheme. The owner of the subcontractor firm whose employees made the hang-up calls is under indictment.

The phone records show that most calls to the White House were from Tobin, who became President Bush's presidential campaign chairman for the New England region in 2004. Other calls from New Hampshire senatorial campaign offices to the White House could have been made by a number of people.

A GOP campaign consultant in 2002, Jayne Millerick, made a 17-minute call to the White House on Election Day, but said in an interview she did not recall the subject. Millerick, who later became the New Hampshire GOP chairwoman, said in an interview she did not learn of the jamming until after the election.

A Democratic analysis of phone records introduced at Tobin's criminal trial show he made 115 outgoing calls -- mostly to the same number in the White House political affairs office -- between Sept. 17 and Nov. 22, 2002. Two dozen of the calls were made from 9:28 a.m. the day before the election through 2:17 a.m. the night after the voting.

There also were other calls between Republican officials during the period that the scheme was hatched and canceled.

Prosecutors did not need the White House calls to convict Tobin and negotiate the two guilty pleas.

Whatever the reason for not using the White House records, prosecutors "tried a very narrow case," said Paul Twomey, who represented the Democratic Party in the criminal and civil cases. The Justice Department did not say why the White House records were not used.

The Democrats said in their civil case motion that they were entitled to know the purpose of the calls to government offices "at the time of the planning and implementation of the phone-jamming conspiracy ... and the timing of the phone calls made by Mr. Tobin on Election Day."

While national Republican officials have said they deplore such operations, the Republican National Committee said it paid for Tobin's defense because he is a longtime supporter and told officials he had committed no crime.

By Nov. 4, 2002, the Monday before the election, an Idaho firm was hired to make the hang-up calls. The Republican state chairman at the time, John Dowd, said in an interview he learned of the scheme that day and tried to stop it.

Dowd, who blamed an aide for devising the scheme without his knowledge, contended that the jamming began on Election Day despite his efforts. A police report confirmed the Manchester Professional Fire Fighters Association reported the hang-up calls began about 7:15 a.m. and continued for about two hours. The association was offering rides to the polls.

Virtually all the calls to the White House went to the same number, which currently rings inside the political affairs office. In 2002, White House political affairs was led by now-RNC chairman Ken Mehlman. The White House declined to say which staffer was assigned that phone number in 2002.

"As policy, we don't discuss ongoing legal proceedings within the courts," White House spokesman Ken Lisaius said.

Robert Kelner, a Washington lawyer representing the Republican National Committee in the civil litigation, said there was no connection between the phone jamming operation and the calls to the White House and party officials.

"On Election Day, as anybody involved in politics knows, there's a tremendous volume of calls between political operatives in the field and political operatives in Washington," Kelner said.

"If all you're pointing out is calls between Republican National Committee regional political officials and the White House political office on Election Day, you're pointing out nothing that hasn't been true on every Election Day," he said.

So, recruiting voters at demonstrations actually seems pretty tame in comparison......

THank you again for giving ... (Below threshold)
Thank you!:

THank you again for giving us the Latin vote! Mentioned on Limbaugh my sweet patootie -- Latin Radio is even more powerful than Gop Radio, and they are so pissed at you! Thanks and thanks again!

ed - "Generally only those ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

ed - "Generally only those with the weakest points assemble to protest because they need the illusion of numbers to portray political power."

So, by that logic, there should be millions of people protesting in support of our president...

Those dirty Democrats! How ... (Below threshold)
Jon Terry:

Those dirty Democrats! How dare they try to turn voters against that great bastion of humanity: the Republican party, who's every move is to elevate humanity???


You filthy Repiglickins, enjoy your last few stolen moments of power. Thieves, Liars. Cheats. Pigs.

Latin Radio... (Below threshold)

Latin Radio

Wow... I gotta remember to tune in to Gladiator Hour

Jon Terry spews and provide... (Below threshold)

Jon Terry spews and provides probative evidence that hate is ALL the Left has since everyone of its ideas have historically (and spectacularly) failed.

Every one, Darleen? You me... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Every one, Darleen? You mean the 40 hour work week, child labor laws, women's sufferage, the abolishment of slavery... All of these things have "failed"?

Golly. Who knew?

Antigone were not t... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone
were not that vain !

devils advocate
these economists you quote are wrong everytime , they guess just like weatherforecasters do , so dont try to bullshit everyone with your superior intellect because its not happening..

The abolishment if slavery... (Below threshold)
virgo:

The abolishment if slavery did not come about because of lefties, sorry the lefties are the plantation owners and theres still a few of them in the senate , pelosi ,clintin,kennedy,kerry !

virgo, you're really amusin... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

virgo, you're really amusing. You represent the right wing very well. Keep up the good work.

Im not on anyones wing ! <... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Im not on anyones wing !

AntigoneAbolitioni... (Below threshold)

Antigone

Abolitionist movement orginated in....gasp...RELIGIOUS people

But hey, let's not look at the great examples of Left societal success in the former USSR, Red China prior to the recent move towards capitalism, Mexico, and even France (which, at this point I believe will be a Islamist country within 25 years).

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
THE biggest anti-human con ever perpetuated upon people of goodwill.

Let's see Darleen, the righ... (Below threshold)
don't care:

Let's see Darleen, the right is responsible for:

1. Hitler
2. Pol Pot
3. Idi Amin
4. Torquemada
5. King Leopold

Proud representatives of the left include:
1. Mahatma Gandhi
2. Mother Theresa
3. Cesar Chavez
4. MLK
5. Nelson Mandela

I like my side a lot more, you neanderthal wench.

Virgo,You are abou... (Below threshold)
Hirgo Virgo:

Virgo,

You are about as coherent as your fearless leader, GWB. Try punctuation marks. Not only do they taste great, they might even make your retarded rhetoric somewhat readable. Idiot.

Darleen - "Abolitionist mov... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Darleen - "Abolitionist movement orginated in....gasp...RELIGIOUS people"

Yeah, religious people who actually followed the teachings of Jesus, instead of spewing hate and bile. They were religious people who probably would have thought it wrong to outlaw giving help to folks in need like the recent anti-immigrant bill passed by the House of Representatives. Under that bill, if Jesus came back to earth and gave an illegal immigrant water in the desert, he would be considered a criminal.

Would you make Jesus a criminal, Darleen?

don't careGodwin's... (Below threshold)

don't care

Godwin's Law

typical

feh

Let's see Darleen, the r... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Let's see Darleen, the right is responsible for:
-
1. Hitler
2. Pol Pot
3. Idi Amin
4. Torquemada
5. King Leopold

Wow. You want to explain to me how socialist and communist dictators could possibly be considered conservative? Remember, conservative==small government. And before anyone says it, no George Bush is not conservative (well maybe socially conservative *shudder*).

Today's "Liberals" are completely illiberal. In Europe today, where left-wing governments are the rule, you can be prosecuted for "hate speech." Oh, and you can't draw cartoons unless Muslims say it's ok. And homeowners who defend themselves against intruders receive more jail time than the criminal.

Ah, and then there's our public school system, where our Liberal school administrators and teachers unions are too busy artificially inflating children's self-esteem, protecting them from the evils of red ink and dodge ball, and indoctrinating them with their superficial notions of "diversity" to actually teach them anything. Failure is still passing, and hard work and personal responsibility are anathema.

Then we come to our greedy, corrupt, and economically illiterate unions. In their mad quest for handouts, the UAW has driven the final nail into GM and Delphi's coffins. I'm sure those $50,000 starting salaries for assembling cars will come as great consolation when they join the ranks of the 10,000s who've already lost their jobs at those companies.

You see, liberals are supposed to believe in individual freedom (why should I have to pay for your healthcare?), free markets, hard work and personal responsibility, which are all anathema to you guys.

if Jesus came back to ea... (Below threshold)

if Jesus came back to earth and gave an illegal immigrant water in the desert, he would be considered a criminal.

Well, I should have expected such nonsense.

No matter how much of these pro-illegal organizing groups... ANSWER, BAMN, The World Can't Wait, International Socialist Workers' Party, etc, are right there up close and personal that the USA has no right to its own sovereinty... you'll say something inane like Jesus was an illegal immigrant or would be a criminal.

You and the rest of the leftist trolls here are not interested in any good faith argument.

All you have is hate. All you have is a desire to see the USA stop being the USA.

So keep waving foreign flags and damning anyone that believes law and borders need to be respected is a racist. You keep proving my point.

Oh, Darleen. Jesus wasn't ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Oh, Darleen. Jesus wasn't an illegal immigrant.

Jacob was.

Silly girl.

And, yes, if Jesus gave water to a thirsty illegal immigrant in the desert, he would be a criminal under the proposed law.

And anyone who followed his word would be as well.

Why do you hate Christians so much? Why do you hate Jesus?

Oops. Not Jacob. Joseph. ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Oops. Not Jacob. Joseph. :)

Hitler was a fascist, you n... (Below threshold)
Darleen is a crackhead:

Hitler was a fascist, you ninny, not a communist. Here are some more right-wingers for your reference.

1. Mussolini
2. Augusto Pinochet
3. Ferdinand Marcos
4. David Duke
5. Joseph McCarthy
6. Francisco Franco
7. Alfredo Stroessner


Yep. That's a great legacy you have. You must be very proud.

Before you get all wacked out on this post -- markets are wonderful, capitalism is great, Adam Smith was a genius (and so was Marx), and Stalin was a brutal thug.

You want to explain to m... (Below threshold)
shingles:

You want to explain to me how socialist and communist dictators could possibly be considered conservative?

Torquemada was a communist!!!???
Who knew!
Why, those wiley communists!

Jesus should be kicked out ... (Below threshold)
Jesus Sucks:

Jesus should be kicked out of the country, along with all of his illegal immigrant buddies. This land is only for white people. Only white people have the right to take over the land, kill Indians, enslave black people and then complain about how oppressed they are.

Hitler was a fascist... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Hitler was a fascist

Uh, he was a socialist. You know the National Socialist party? In any case, tell me what fascism has to do with limited government?

Torquemada was a communist!!!???

No. I was referring specifically to Hitler and Pol Pot. I should have known I would have to spell it out for you.

Yep. That's a great legacy you have. You must be very proud.
-
Before you get all wacked out on this post -- markets are wonderful, capitalism is great, Adam Smith was a genius (and so was Marx), and Stalin was a brutal thug.

And how praytell, is that my legacy? Your second sentence is a much more apt descriptor of my beliefs.

Jesus should be kicked out of the country, along with all of his illegal immigrant buddies.

If Jesus is illegal, then indeed he should.

This land is only for white people. Only white people have the right to take over the land, kill Indians, enslave black people and then complain about how oppressed they are.

And finally we progress from thinly veiled cries of "RACIST!" to overt ones. Why don't you show me an immigration proposal that restricts "non-white" people rather than "illegals?" Oh, and my "non-white", legal immigrant, Chinese fiance says you're a moron. Is she a racist, too?

"If Jesus is illegal, then ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

"If Jesus is illegal, then indeed he should."

So, you're saying that God is subject to the laws of man?

"Oh, and my 'non-white', le... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

"Oh, and my 'non-white', legal immigrant, Chinese fiance says you're a moron. Is she a racist, too?"

Sure. Are you saying that she can't be racist because she's Chinese?

What a racist thing to say!

Here you go poopie: ... (Below threshold)
Jordan is a douchebag:

Here you go poopie:
Hitler = FASCISM. Look it up on Google. National Socialism was fascism, ding don.

OK, Pol Potty was a commie. My bad. But I give him to you to add on to your long list of ignominious killers.

Yep. Overt it is. All you right wingers are racists. Doesn't matter if you're Chinese or not. I'm Indian. Lots of Indians are racists too. All right wingers are racists. Moreover, they are itiots.

Economists, on the other hand, are terrific. Even supply siders are OK. Friedman, Hayek, Ricardo, Smith, Becker, Sen, Marx...all brilliant.

See, Jordan, it's simple. Economists = good. Right wingers = bad.

...and there is nothing thi... (Below threshold)
thinly veiled:

...and there is nothing thinly veiled about it. Let me say it again, sans veil: rightnutters are racists.

You leftwing commies are th... (Below threshold)
virgo:

You leftwing commies are the ones hung up on a persons race , thats why you are going to continue to lose..

Antigone if jesus w... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone
if jesus were to show up in the middle of the desert to bring water to an illegal immigrant, he would probably ask him to repent of his crimes and follow him to the nearest voting precinct to vote for GWB..

I agree. Left wing commies... (Below threshold)
left wing commies are morons:

I agree. Left wing commies are useless. Communism is a failed ideology. NK and Cuba will eventually succumb to market forces.

But right wing nutjobs (like you) are still racists.

and BTW, Jordan,Ec... (Below threshold)
Thorstein Veblen:

and BTW, Jordan,

Economists = good. You=idiot.

Anyone else notice how the ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Anyone else notice how the immigration threads only attract the batshit crazies? Must be the flags.

Flags!!

Really, virgo?I th... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Really, virgo?

I think you've got the Pharases in mind. They were all about law and order. Jesus wasn't too concerned about the law of man.

OH NOES! The brown people a... (Below threshold)

OH NOES! The brown people are rising up, buy more guns Republicunts!

And you can't repent for cr... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

And you can't repent for crimes.

You repent for sins.

crime != sin

Crimes are about the laws of man.

Sins are about the laws of God.

If there was a law against being Christian, would it be a sin to break it?

Why argue with these democr... (Below threshold)
josh:

Why argue with these democraps?
They know they are losers....look at them..smell them... they make me sick!!!
We should take the illegals and put them on boats in the middle of the oceans and then sink them! or let them ride with teddy kennedy...

Mmm, looks like compassiona... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Mmm, looks like compassionate conservatism is still alive and well:

Fire at Mexican restaurant probed as hate crime

I bet we'll be seeing more of this kind of "protest".

Well Geez Pope Antigone th... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Well Geez Pope Antigone thank,s for clearing that up.
name 1 crime that men make it a law to break that would not be a sin ! You cant repent from crime ? why not , you may have a change of heart.
and your spelling of pharases is incorrect.

yeah those peaceful protesters are already showing their true colors , attacking a man at a protest and hitting him in the head with a metal object. yeah there ready to assimilate alright.

Joshwhat's up with... (Below threshold)
Josh has only one testicle:

Josh

what's up with all the love baby? You mad because your momma didn't change your diaper?

YEah, sitting in my own poop would make me crank too.

But ease up, man.

Yeah it looks like your ty... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yeah it looks like your typical anti american leftist groups work on that Mexican restaurant Mantis, the same types are over in europe burning everything.

I agree they hagve no sympathy.

virgo,you bumblebu... (Below threshold)
all republicans are nazis:

virgo,

you bumblebutt...according to your logic (since you think the one guy who bonked someone on the head represents everyone), all republicans are extreme right wing crazies because David Duke is a right wing crazy, right?

Stop sticking your tongue in the airplane glue...you're becoming unhinhged.

And, it is THEY ARE. There is the opposite of here.

You should be thrown out of the country for not being able to speak English.

(Have no sympathy ,compass... (Below threshold)
virgo:

(Have no sympathy ,compassion )

So, you're saying that G... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

So, you're saying that God is subject to the laws of man?

Well, God was invented by man, and Jesus was just a man, so yes. And there are plenty of people named Jesus.

Sure. Are you saying that she can't be racist because she's Chinese?

No I'm saying that being against illegal immigration is not the same as being against immigration or certainly not the same as being racist. Presumably, if she immigrated here, she's not against immigration, right? OH THE NUANCE!

Now the Hitler and Nazi analogies start. So much for arguing ideas.

NAZI Were not s... (Below threshold)
virgo:

NAZI

Were not speaking were typing Dumkoff and it was,nt 1 it was a group of five of your bandidos that jumped Him
and yes your in the same category because your rationalizing this..

Vir go away,you st... (Below threshold)
deport virgo:

Vir go away,

you still don't know english. And you should volunteer to deport yourself, since you obviously don't want to assimilate.

Off to Mexico with you.

Deport Yourself Commie ,... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Deport Yourself Commie , and you dont know Jack.

Who's Jack? Your husband?<... (Below threshold)
deport virgo:

Who's Jack? Your husband?

This is getting way off su... (Below threshold)
virgo:

This is getting way off subject for me so adios all you lefty greencard holders, may the maggots of a thousand flys infect your bed pans

>>may the maggots of a thou... (Below threshold)
virgo's fan:

>>may the maggots of a thousand flys infect your bed pans

Hmmm...that would be prety much like the inside of your head

Virgos Fan i knew y... (Below threshold)
Babs:

Virgos Fan
i knew you would backstab as soon as you thought i was not here .. is,nt it time to turn in your library card and get off the computer so some other needy person can use the it .

I'll stab you in the front.... (Below threshold)
backstab:

I'll stab you in the front. ha ha ha.

virgo - "name 1 crime that ... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

virgo - "name 1 crime that men make it a law to break that would not be a sin"

It's against the law for a public school to host a Christian prayer group. Are you saying it's a sin to pray, virgo?

To all those whose knowledg... (Below threshold)

To all those whose knowledge of Scripture seems to begin and end with "Where much is given, much is required ..."

IMO, Jesus wouldn't wait for the illegal immigrant to cross our border before He'd step in and help him ... He was always big on GOING to others and rendering aid -- and not just the Band-Aid of short-term relief that has the appearance of "doing something".

I don't see any of you lining up to go down to Mexico and do just that ... rendering aid not only by delivering physical necessities, but in confronting the corruption that is oppressing these people and forcing them out of their nation.

No, instead, it is always America that is either the cause of the problem (and therefore deserves to alone be burdened with its resolution), or the cash cow that alone must be milked to solve the problem.

We didn't cause this mess to begin with ... and there are more resources than ours that should be applied to rectifying it. I'll tell you where the prejudice is here ... it is the prejudice of those who persist in viewing America as a greedy nation, facts be damned, and therefore deserving of all the burdens being placed on it, and it alone.

BTW, that same Jesus also told us to render unto Caesar's, what is Caesar's ... and the way I see it, now that "we the people" have supplanted Caesar, that commandment carries extra weight.

Illegally slipping into this nation, and avoiding obedience to her laws ... including, but not limited to, her tax laws ... is not conformance to that commandment by any definition.

And if you want more reinforcement for this position, go read what Jesus' spokesman Paul had to say in Romans 13.

Finally, what makes y'all think that Jesus would approve of people speaking for him, whose socioeconomic worldview can be summed up as follows:

We'll guarantee your right to ...

... get stoned ...
... get your jollies ...
... get a free Band-aid ...
... get a check ...
... and "get by" ...

... by taking your right to get ahead, as we ignore your right to live

Read the parables ... Jesus had a healthy respect for both the profit motive and the work ethic, as long as it did not get in the way of one's relationship with Him. He also took a rather dim view of living like a libertine ... even in the case of the convicted adultress, He told her to "go and sin no more" as He protected her and forgave her.

And, regarding the war we are presently in ... the same God whose Son told us to turn the other cheek (which is quite different than forgiveness) gave us a total of four cheeks to turn ... and a brain to discern an alternative course of action, prior to running out of cheeks.

Nice, Rich.... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

Nice, Rich.

Everytime there is an amnes... (Below threshold)
al:

Everytime there is an amnesty, the processing of those LEGALLY petitioned gets affected as processing grinds to a halt. In the entire 2002 processing for children of Immigrants only moved by 1 month. I know because my petition got affected by it.

If Illegals want to protest they are most welcome but do so but conduct their protests and flag waving back in their country of origin!

They are not immigrants... they are Illegals! Immigrants are those who came in LEGALLY following the process set forth by the USCIS.

These Illegals do have some nerve to demand for changes in Immigration law and ask for a path for citizenship and jump in front of the line...even ahead of those who followed the legal process and filed petitions.

If they want to migrate to the USA, do it LEGALLY.


We'll guarantee your rig... (Below threshold)
shingles:

We'll guarantee your right to ...

... get stoned ...
... get your jollies ...
... get a free Band-aid ...
... get a check ...
... and "get by" ...

Sounds good to me!
Where do I sign up?

Antigone i think t... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone

i think theres something wrong with that law dont you ?

Backstabber
Franken and the rest of your loverboys are waiting for you over at queer america , dont be late.

Actually, virgo, I find not... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Actually, virgo, I find nothing wrong with that law. But you didn't answer the question. Would it be a sin to break it?

NO.... (Below threshold)
virgo:

NO.

Gee. So you get to pick an... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

Gee. So you get to pick and choose those laws you get to break?

And who decided that breaki... (Below threshold)
Antigone:

And who decided that breaking immigration law was a sin? You?

Man, that's horrible. ... (Below threshold)

Man, that's horrible.

About as horrible as handing out voter guides in church.

What concerns me is all nam... (Below threshold)
Aurin:

What concerns me is all namecalling and 'criminal' comments in the national debate. By those standards Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Stonewall Gays, Women Liberation marchers in the 1920s, all these people are criminals. They were breaking the law and, in all cases, were arrested. But they were criminals b/c the laws were unjust. It was their duty to stand up to ridiculous, unfair laws which prevented them from living like average people.

When government laws contradict basic rights and principles (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) it is not only our right to break the law, it is our duty. That is why we have protest, that is why we have an entire court of appeals. Government makes mistakes and has bad laws on the books. In those cases, it is up to the people to have a redress of grievances in the courthouses, legislative chambers, and the streets.

It is illegal to cross the borders into a nation without a passport. But when your family is going hungry there is no law in the world which is going to prevent people from trying to put food on the table and provide safety for children. If I was a Mexican man and I had the choice between being a law-abiding citizen that watched my family suffer while I waited years for a green card OR just crossed into America to start work so I could send money home, which choice makes sense? Which choice would you choose? I think most people -Mexican or American- would cross that border, laws be damned.

This is the fundamental underpinning of American democracy. Read Thomas Paine, Jefferson and our founding fathers. Protests is necessary and that is why it is in the Bill of Rights (right to assemble peacefully). And it is our duty not just to write people off as 'scourges' (Rep. Tancredo) or a bunch of 'felons' but to really look at this issue and come to a compromise.

Antigone I comment... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Antigone
I commented on 1 specific law that i disagreed with, it is just my opinion.

I do not break any of these laws.

I did not write or screw up the current status of immigration laws either.

Do you have a point ?

If I was a Mexican man a... (Below threshold)
Jordan:

If I was a Mexican man and I had the choice between being a law-abiding citizen that watched my family suffer while I waited years for a green card OR just crossed into America to start work so I could send money home, which choice makes sense? Which choice would you choose? I think most people -Mexican or American- would cross that border, laws be damned.

Finally, a reasonable opponent. You see here's the reform I really want:

1). Get control of the border.
2). Reform the immigration process.

The current immigration process is typical of government policies in that it is inordinantly complicated, agonizingly slow and horribly inefficient. I'm all for making it easier for people to immigrate here legally. But you can't have 2) without 1).

Without control of the border, no legal system of immigration will be sufficient to deter illegal immigration. You may remember that we passed this same amnesty nonsense 20 years ago. It worked so well that the number of illegals has doubled since then. We can't sustain this.

If you were a real Mexican... (Below threshold)
virgo:

If you were a real Mexican Man with a family in Mexico, you would stay and protect your family there and protest your own governmentS maltreatment instead of practicing the art of guilt transference to the U.S.

Those protests had hundreds... (Below threshold)
Dick Tuck:

Those protests had hundreds of thousands of citizens. Many were the children of undocumented immigrants. Keep on trying to fire up your racist base.

The Marxists are alive and ... (Below threshold)
Joyce:

The Marxists are alive and well and marching with the illegals. Brothers in crime. Breaking our laws, taking advantage of our benefits. Lovely bunch of people. GET RID OF THEM, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE. And as a taxpayer I am tired of paying for people to screw me without even a kiss.

You can email President Bus... (Below threshold)

You can email President Bush, VP Cheney, Congressional Leaders & Rush Limbaugh from my eclectic homepage. Check it out here...
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/8889

Right or Left, it's amazing... (Below threshold)
Harrison:

Right or Left, it's amazing the levels people will lower themselves to because of their views. As a junior in high school, I can't help but sit back and laugh at all you "adults" debating with one another.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... (Below threshold)

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

in the name of the good mex... (Below threshold)
israel castillo:

in the name of the good mexican people that are here only to work ,and do pay taxes ,I m going to ask for mercy,mercy not to the US gov, but to the american people because i feel theyre the real owners of this lands,
please have mercy

you can do anything u want with the bad immigrants that do cause trouble,
im not demanding a right or law that i know it doesnt belong to me ,but ill ask for mercy,thats my only right :(

I say the rest of us "legal... (Below threshold)
Ben:

I say the rest of us "legal" Americans protest and not pay taxes!

We don't need ANY illegal i... (Below threshold)
Smiley:

We don't need ANY illegal immigrants here, end of story. Either make them LEGAL or send them home.

Texas' village idiot, Pres.... (Below threshold)
Dave:

Texas' village idiot, Pres. Bush, said through a White House spokesperson regarding the "A day without immigrants" protests that "although he is not a fan of boycotts and protests, people have the right to organize and execute peaceful demonstrations of their veiws." To that I say BULLSH*T!!!! AMERICAN CITIZENS have that right through the Constitution of the UNITED STATES. Illegal immigrants or illegal aliens have NO RIGHTS under the U.S. Constitution. They are criminals and should be dealt with as such. I am in no way against immigration. I am an electrician in Texas, and work side by side with Mexican immigrants everyday, weather they be fellow electricians or other tradesman. I am however a believer that if they want to be here, they should be required to pursue the proper avenues and file for the neccessary documentation. For years, illegal immigrants have worked here in Texas, providing ficticious Social Security numbers to employers. The Republican controlled government has turned a blind eye to this. Why you ask? Because these people will pay into Medicare, Social Security, and Unemployment for years through there taxible wages and will never collect on any of it. At the same time, these people have driven down the standard wage rate in every trade. When I first moved to Texas almost 4 years ago, the scale for a Journeyman electrician was $19.90 an hour. As of February 2006, the scale for a Journeyman electrician is $17.65. Over $2.00 an hour in 4 years. Is it getting less expensive to support a family in Texas? Absolutely not. Yet pay scales continue to go down for skilled labor. Part of the blame rests on the shoulders of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, who has issued Journeyman electrician licenses to people who have worked in the trade for over 8,000 hours, regardless of weather or not they have completed an apprenticeship program or passed a Journeyman electrician exam. The blame also goes to the Republican government, whose weak, ineffective, and more often than not, non-existent approach toward illegal immigration has allowed a tremendous influx of workers into the field of skilled labor. I have completed an apprenticeship program. I have also passed both the Journeyman and Master electrician exams for the State of Texas. It makes me sick that the license I have worked hard to earn is worth very little today.
Democrats support unions, unions support working families. Unions have strict requirements for acceptance into their training and apprenticeship programs. Requirements that would block acceptance to illegal immigrants. Vote Democrat. Return union strength to Texas. Return strength to American citizens. STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

are you people kidding me? ... (Below threshold)
patty the horse:

are you people kidding me? does anyone see a frightening similarity to nazi germany? the fact is that this country depends on illegal immigrants to function. our lawmakers wont acknowledge them because there is just too much money being made exploiting these people! i feel that if someone is in this country illegally and is stupid enough to committ crimes then he/she should be deported, but if someone is here just trying to earn some money honestly and make a better life for themselves and their families then they deserve the same chance everyone else was given. unless you are a native indian no one has any right to demand that another person be deported! people are always scared of what they dont understand..that is human nature, so why not embrace our latin brothers and give them the chance they deserve? lets face the facts, these guys are hard working intelligent people and are no different than anyone else. remember the term no taxation without representation? well thats what this is. maybe this country needs a new revolution to remember where we all came from! i support the cause

our corrupt government is f... (Below threshold)
patty the horse:

our corrupt government is fighting a war in iraq to defend human rights while our lawmakers are trying to take away the most basic of all human rights in our own backyard! im sad to say that the american people have been "led by the nose like asses" by our lawmakers to the point that we dont even realize that this country doesnt care about human rights anymore like it used to but only oil! oil! oil! i do however support the men and women who have fought for our freedom, but not the government for which they stand for.

joyce it isnt the immigrant... (Below threshold)
patty the horse:

joyce it isnt the immigrants who are screwing you but your own beloved america has become a wolf in sheeps clothing!

Not unlike Alaska, et al, w... (Below threshold)
Sue:

Not unlike Alaska, et al, we paid the Mexican Government 18 million dollars plus, in cash, for what thay are now being brainwashed to believe is stollen property when there were only a few Spaniards and a LOT of indians. Hispanic blood is derived from the Indians. What do you expect from a crime ridden, communist people. They have NO idea they're being used with historical lies. Dumb. I hope they continue marching. Not only is there already a political backlash in yesterdays elections, but without them on the streets and hogging the isles at Walmart with their non-mannered offspring, the traffic was light ... no, awsome! NO waiting in the ERs, etc. The only businesses they hurt was their own. Like I said. Peanut brains ...

hello im donovan weaver and... (Below threshold)
donovan:

hello im donovan weaver and i just wanted to say that i against MEXICANS.............................. even though i am one myself!!!!!!!! thats how much i hate them




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