« Why Price Controls Don't Work | Main | US Border Control Gives Minutemen Locations to Mexican Government »

Polling numbers just don't add up

(Note: I really don't have any conclusions here, just a collection of thoughts. Feel free to discuss things among yourselves.)

On the radio the other day, I heard a commentator discussing how President Bush's approval ratings have fallen even lower. The number I heard was 31%, but that is being challenged -- it seems the pollsters once again over-sampled Democrats.

But the particulars aren't overly important. The commentator said that Bush's numbers are lower than Clinton's ever were -- and that Clinton would never let his numbers get that bad. Clinton lived and died by polls, by people's approval, and would have found some way to reverse things. Bush, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care much for polls; he has his own beliefs and principles, and he stands by them solidly.

A long time ago, I was heavily involved in campus politics. A friend of mine and I were discussing the merits. I backed one candidate as a true believer, a sincere and decent guy. Walter, though, backed a guy who I described as a pure political animal, one who was interested in power and self-aggrandizement. He was lining himself up for a post-college political career, and saw student government as a mere stepping-stone on the way.

Walter's argument was simple: his guy was someone you could depend on, you could work with. You could get him on your side just by making sure he understood how it would be to his benefit. It was a cold, pragmatic approach, and it repulsed me.

In the end, my guy won and Walter's lost. And my guy was a disaster.

That's the problem with the true believers -- they rarely end up mediocre. They are either great successes, or great failures. My guy flopped. (It's so bad that I don't even remember who the hell he was, but I still remember Walter and his guy, James.)

So, Bush is a true believer, as opposed to Clinton the pragmatist. Reagan and FDR were true believers, but so was Carter. Nixon was, at his core, a pragmatist.

The other element of the polling that struck me is that politics is not a zero-sum game, especially when it comes to polls. Bush's falling approval do not necessarily mean that his opponents are rising -- because they aren't. There is no ascending star on the Democratic side, just a bunch of retreads, has-beens, and never-weres who think they can capitalize on the numbers to boost themselves -- and they can't.

There's an old saying in politics that you can't beat someone with no one. It's the principle that's kept Ted and Patrick Kennedy (alias Old Pint and Half Pint) in office. And even though Bush can't run again, he's still somebody, and his designated successor will have that going for him (or her). The Democrats need to find someone that people can vote for, for a change -- running as "I'm not George W. Bush" hasn't worked for them yet.

(Update: Iowa Liberal whines that his trackback excoriating me (well, kicking sand on my shoes and stamping his feet) was blocked. Here you go, jb. Sorry to ruin your paranoid persecution complex.)


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Polling numbers just don't add up:

» Conservative Outpost linked with Daily Summary

» Kitty Litter linked with IT'S STRICTLY PERSONAL

» Political Forecast linked with Polls, Principles, and Pragmatism

Comments (173)

"Principled" versus "pragma... (Below threshold)

"Principled" versus "pragmatic." Fun example, but not necessarily instructive, if the suggestion is that "principled" = "disaster." How do you trust the ego-centric pragmatist, who will shift his allegiance upon the first belief that it will further his own ends? And the principled politician has to be willing to compromise (at times), lest gridlock result time and again.

And unfortunately, we've run some pretty good candidates against Ted Kennedy (Joe Malone 1988, Mitt Romney 1994) -- so it pains me to say, but here, you can't beat Ted Kennedy with anyone.

I am not keen on the pragma... (Below threshold)
just me:

I am not keen on the pragmatist.

What I think a true believer needs to do though, is have some on board (as in they are on board with the true believers political/positional ideas) that are pragmatists, or at least have realistic expectations on what can or can't be done.

If the true believer doesn't have some people around him/her to keep the ideas and vision focused, then I do think you end up with a disaster.

Although, I don't know that the poll numbers indicate a disaster. Time will give us a better indicator of whether it is a disaster than opinion polls of the time.

...it seems the pollster... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

...it seems the pollsters once again over-sampled Democrats.

...assumes that only Democrats are unhappy with W, which ain't the case.

The Democrats need to fi... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

The Democrats need to find someone that people can vote for, for a change...

...and that ain't gonna happen.

Poor Jay Tea. He just can'... (Below threshold)
viet vet:

Poor Jay Tea. He just can't admit that George Bush sucks as preznit, and 65% of the population agrees. It's a pleasure seeing that the arrogant smirk has been wiped off the faces of you GOP nitwits.

By the way, if you think the approval ratings are bad now, wait until Karl Rove is indicted in the next few weeks.

Why do George Bush and republicans in general hate the USA so much?

viet vet, the other day you... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

viet vet, the other day you were bitching I wasn't talking about politics. (Although Boston's idiocy can be directly attributed to the micromanagement and nany-statism to which MA Democrats are infamous for.) Now, you say I'm a Republican, which I'm not.

So, why don't you show me someone whose poll numbers are UP?

And just how are you so certain Rove will be indicted? Got some inside information? Your crystal ball tell you so? On precisely what charges? Or are you just fantasizing?

Poor liberals. The voters have shut them out of the legislative and executive branch, so they have to keep resorting to the one brach of the government where they don't have to convince the people they're right -- the courts.

J.

Ha Ha Ha..... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Ha Ha Ha..

I can't say much about the ... (Below threshold)

I can't say much about the present Republican party that couldn't be cut and pasted from your description of the Democrats. And the moonbats here keep accusing me of being a Republican too, JT.

However I did like this cartoon.

(note, cartoon from 9 May if you link after today)

Historical point--You are l... (Below threshold)
Jim in Cleveland:

Historical point--You are largely wrong to say FDR was a true believer. He was essentially a pragmatist, not an ideologue, particularly with how he dealt with the Depression in his first 100 days. To wit, here is a quote from FDR--

"Take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another"

Great cartoon.I th... (Below threshold)

Great cartoon.

I this this one is pretty right on also.


viet vet, you really are a tool.

Perhaps there ought to be a... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

Perhaps there ought to be a poll on who still believes in polls.
The only poll that counts is election day.
When the dimms fail to capture congress again in November whom are they going to believe, their own phoney polls or the election results? Wonder what the spin will be.

Some good thoughts there, J... (Below threshold)

Some good thoughts there, Jay Tea. I would add one vital point that you omitted. For the "true believer" who actually wins an election to fail to act upon those principles upon which he was elected (as has an enormous herd of current Republicans) will always be disastrous to their poll numbers.

A "quick and dirty" analysis of how it works: Candidate X presents himself as radically different from Candidate Y, the incumbent. People like the way that X talks, really get behind him on his principles, feeling that he really thinks the same way about things and believes the same things are right as do they. Candidate X, meanwhile, is vilified as an idealogue and a "divisive" candidate by the supporters of Y. After the election, won by Candidate X, Y's supporters aren't swayed...they still don't like X. When X takes office, the pressure exerted by the vocal minority who supported Y convinces him he needs to "soften" his stance on some of his principles. This message comes across to X's supporters as a failure to act upon the principles that got X elected in the first place, so poll numbers plummet even among those who voted for X.

Next election, exasperated as his original voters are with X, they will likely still vote for him, preferring him to the alternative, but they still don't like the fact that he didn't adhere to the principles that made him the "different" candidate.

Such is the status of the RNC at this moment. Back in the mid-90s, people were tired of the DNC running the country with a staff of career politicians whose main objective was to further entrench themselves in the "DC Way" and to line their own pockets with tax dollars. Through the latter half of the 90s, the RNC reaped the benefits of that exasperation...and performed only marginally better, as they caved to pressure from that vocal minority (and the amplification by the MSM of that minority's voice) to back down from the distinguishing (and yes, sometimes divisive) points upon which they were elected.

Maybe one day, the RNC will get the message that "not doing worse" than the other guys isn't going to cut it. We want someone who will take the platform upon which they were elected and stand on the damned thing, rather than backing off when the pressure's on.

cubanbob:When t... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

cubanbob:

When the dimms fail to capture congress again in November...

Are you a betting man, CB? We are talking congress here and not the presidency, right?

I like Jamie's scenario, bu... (Below threshold)

I like Jamie's scenario, but he left one thing out. Despite X's display of "flexibility" and "willingness to listen" to Y's people, he won't get ONE VOTE from them. They'll be out in force working for Candidate Z against X in the next cycle.

You are so right cubanbob, ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

You are so right cubanbob, these pulls are b.s.moral boosters for the lib base! just like when Kerry was ahead according to exit polls in Ohio! wishful thinking..

Morale not moral, I meant.<... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Morale not moral, I meant.

Yep. I'm a betting man. Con... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

Yep. I'm a betting man. Congress. Both houses.
The Senate and the the House of Representatives.
I'm saying the MSM polls are mostly bullshit. The dimms are not going to capture either house let alone both.
Being angry and frustrated with Bush and the Republicans doesn't translate in to a vote for idiots, thieves and communists.
So astigafa what is your bet?

I wonder what the spin will be they loose again?
Like I said before, there ought to be a poll conducted on who actually believes the MSM polls.

Hmm... I'm not as gung-ho a... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Hmm... I'm not as gung-ho as cubanbob, but I think that's a fairly safe bet. The Democrats will make some gains in the House, but not enough to garner a majority. However, it will still be spun as a major blow to Bush.

So, astigafa, care to make it a bet? And what sort of stakes are you willing to put up? You say the Dems will win back the House, cubanbob and I say no.

J.

Poor liberals. The voter... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Poor liberals. The voters have shut them out of the legislative and executive branch, so they have to keep resorting to the one brach of the government where they don't have to convince the people they're right -- the courts.

Pretty sure it was the White House that called that particular investigation. The DOJ anyway.

clap harder, JT!... (Below threshold)
tinkerbell:

clap harder, JT!

Well, if the Dems do make g... (Below threshold)
danjr0802:

Well, if the Dems do make gains in the House or Senate, it will be a blow to the GOP. They don't have that much of a lead in the Senate as it is.

I think they have a decent shot at the House, though they'll have to get the "liberal press" to stop with the right wing spin that they don't have an agenda.

Unlikely to happen though, given the oral that the MSM has been performing on Bush and the GOP since 2000.

Seriously hilarious depths ... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Seriously hilarious depths of denial over here. Congratulations. My approval rating for you is 100%!

Being angry and frustrated ... (Below threshold)
salad buffet:

Being angry and frustrated with Bush and the Republicans doesn't translate in to a vote for idiots, thieves and communists.

But the voters already DID vote for a bunch of idiots, thieves and communists (specifically, trotskyites).

Wait, which party are we talking about here?

I'm surprised to read this ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

I'm surprised to read this collection. With 48% of Conservatives and 65% of the nation disapproving of Bush, so much energy is spent maligning polling. This is not an argument of 5% or 2% as it was during the past two presidential elections. This is a landslide opinion of disgust. Let's face facts, conservatives need to stop forgiving Bush and promoting him no matter what incompetent screw up he makes and work to preserving the Republic. Bush is not the answer, he is the problem.

AN anecdote about campus po... (Below threshold)
Maimonides:

AN anecdote about campus politics is always such a great metaphor for a national poll, don't you think? Apparently you do.

As for "Beating Someone With No One," well, this is rope-a-dope. Give Bush enough rope and he'll hang all the GOP dopes.


bush doesn't pay attention ... (Below threshold)
malangali:

bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls.

Excuse ME! This is one of the tiredest, lamest pieces of male bovine excrement that has ever come out of white house spin machine. Bush doesn't pay attention to the polls??? Then why does he keep soon-to-be-indicted criminal mastermind Karl Rove on the public payroll? Yes, you can repeat this canard all you like, but it just isn't true.

bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls. bush doesn't pay attention to the polls.

Yeah, right.

Marc, the point you are mis... (Below threshold)
scsiwuzzy:

Marc, the point you are missing, the point that much of the left missed in the last election cycle:
Lack of approval for one candidate does not equate to approval of the opposistion.
I have a 33% approval rating for Miller.
But I have a 5% approval for Coors.
When I attend a BBQ and those are my only choices (going sober, when family is concentrated may not be an option), I am grabbing a can of Miller.

Also, a large chunk of Bush's low numbers are from his own base right now. About things like borders and immigration. We may not like how he's handling it, and how the Reps are sticking their heads in the sand (or bending over for companies like Tyson or pandering to a potential group of future voters), but we aren't going to vote in the party that tries to RECRUIT at the ILLEGAL immigrant rallies either!
No, the dissillusioned base will speak out in the primaries, and then either vote in the cadidates they hate the least, OR they will stay home out of disgust.
This is assuming the Dems don't put up lightning rod candidates red staters will oppose even if it means voting for a complete loser (kinda sounds like the Kerry-Edwards strategy... they'll vote for us because we aren't Bush). Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Dennis Kuchinch(sp?) etc, are the type that could bring out the red vote despite a weak red ticket, IMO.

Yes, you can repeat this... (Below threshold)

Yes, you can repeat this canard all you like, but it just isn't true.

Heh....ironic, isn't it....an allusion to repetition begetting reality coming from a liberal commenter.

In all honesty, though, I wish Bush (and by extension, the GOP) didn't pay attention to the polls. I say let the libs & dems scream all they want, dance with the one what brung ya.

malangali,Rove spins... (Below threshold)
scsiwuzzy:

malangali,
Rove spins and Bush still does what he wants to do (if he listened to polls, he'd know that his base thinks his border policy is destructive and bone headed) 90% of the time. And most of what Rove does is act as the Left's boogey man.
When people say Bush ignores the polls, they are making the disctinction between his and the previous administration which polled and focused grouped nearly everything they did.

Wow, a president who stands... (Below threshold)
Erv:

Wow, a president who stands for what he believes instead of what the people want...why do I pay his salary again? I thought this was a democracy...?

Granted, that's over-simplified, but so is the praise of an elected official for ignoring the changing desires of the people who elected him to represent them.

You say the Dems will wi... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

You say the Dems will win back the House, cubanbob and I say no.

We were talking House and Senate. Split bet? I do money, liquor or embarrasing public acts -- rather fond of them all, really: they just go together.

cubanbob.You are s... (Below threshold)
gil:

cubanbob.

You are simply one of those people that dismiss as wrong, anything that does not agree with you views regardless of the evidence (Kind of like your compadre Bush); Or to put it in blunt terms, You (and Bush)are full of B.S.

Your fellow Republicans are not idiots. They PAY ATTENTION to the polls. They are trying desperately to do something to change them.If they don't they know they will loose in November.

If Republican politicians would take your "Polls are always wrong" approach THEY WOULD BE EXTINCT.

Get a brain my friend.

Jay tea.As far as ... (Below threshold)
gil:

Jay tea.

As far as the future goes you can create your own ready made delusion. That is the only thing left for people like you, when you see the present falling apart.

It is called mental masturbation. it's realy sad.

"Seriously hilarious depths... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"Seriously hilarious depths of denial over here. Congratulations. My approval rating for you is 100%!"

Serious denial indeed. (It ain't just a river in Egypt)

Jay "The Jizzer" Tea has been wrong on so many counts, I won't even run through them. Now he resorts to just calling people retarded. It's all pretty funny watching it crumble at this point.

You libs are the ones fasci... (Below threshold)
chimangaconquistador:

You libs are the ones fascinated by your ability to concoct a poll study showing your side always ahead or just about to take back something or proclaiming to speak for the majority when in actually the samplings are of less than 300th of 1% of the countrys population, not to mention weighted to favor the objectives of the poll taking group. so it is impossible to draw any definitive proof that polls suggest anything other then tiny snapshots of political leanings. in other words B.S.

High gas prices, never endi... (Below threshold)

High gas prices, never ending and pointless war, institutionalized corruption, increasing health care costs, and decreasing wages are finally convincing people to peek out of their corporate media echo chambers. Weather or not Dems can capitalize on that still remains to be seen.

See you at the ballot box.<... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

See you at the ballot box.

Actually, it is quite amusi... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Actually, it is quite amusing to see all the Right Wing blowhards scream and cry and claim "oversample" whenever the polls come out in a way they don't like.

There are more Democrats than Republicans and that has always been true. What the pollsters are accurately capturing is that people are defecting from the Republican Party in droves.

My brother, a Conservative lawyer who is on the Chamber of Commerce and also a born again Christian campaigned hard for Bush in 2004.

Last time I talked to him he told me he is really not a die-hard GOP guy, he is really an "independent." That same decision is being made all over the country and that is what we are seeing.

But keep drinking the Kool Aide, Bush apologists. I actually prefer that you continue to delude yourselves into thinking that Bush is loved by all and continue on your disastrous course. Well, disastrous for you. Great news for America.

Most Americans describe the... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

Most Americans describe themselves as Democrats (although not by the margins they used to), so any sample of the 'general public' skews that way if done correctly. Statistically, this is appropriate - the poll should skew however the general population does.

Also, Bush just threw a lotof people overboard and gave up and quit on big initiatives (Social Security reform) based on polls. He has cranked up the anti-gas price rhetoric (despite being an oil man) because of polls. Polls are all any politician cares about. The difference is that Bush only wants 51% approval, wheras Clinton and Reagan looked to get mid-60's.

Politics is a 365-day eternal re-election bid, make no mistake about it. If not for self (2 termer) than for the party.

Sad thing is that Bush has only been loved when he's gotten the country attacked through inaction. His numbers rose on 9/11 and have steadily decreased thereafter. What a sad statement for Bush and foor the American people.

how can you say "...he has ... (Below threshold)
jay:

how can you say "...he has his own beliefs and principles, and he stands by them solidly..." with a straight face. this guy flips and flops more than a sun-fish pulled from his stocked pond in crawford. stop buying into the mythology and face reality.

Oh, and he was for the Duba... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

Oh, and he was for the Dubai Ports Deal before he was against it.

You're just going to have t... (Below threshold)
Aran:

You're just going to have to deal with the facts: Bush is an historically unpopular president that has failed his people and his constitution.

MoochazillahudeenH... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Moochazillahudeen

How exactly did Bushs inaction get us attacked? what in hells name are you sniveling about?
I believe He was for the terminals deal right till the end!
Aran, He is not a historical anything yet He,s still in office pion.
these are facts, not apologys you Air America Rejects..

cjimangaconquistador.... (Below threshold)
gil:

cjimangaconquistador.

The same comment as cubanbob, that deserves the same answer.

You own Republican politician friends are not Idiots. They are desperately trying to do something to change the same polls you dismiss as wrong.

You on the other hand would rather make pretend and make your own reality.

Funny I never heard of a liberal dismissing Bush 's polls after 9/11 (in the 90%'s)as wrong.
The polls came from the same people as today's polls. Where they wrong after 9/11 also?. Or is it just the present number you don't like.

Grow up. A sign of maturity is to accept bad news, and try to do something about it.

But if you want to make a Democrat a favor keep on and convince more Reps that everithing is peach and cool aid.

I see that, once again, a r... (Below threshold)

I see that, once again, a relatively benign tidbit of political commentating has turned into a full-fledged food fight.

astig, I'll bet a 12 pack of [insert preferred brand of beer] on the GOP for each house (a case in all at risk); and if either side wins both houses, the loser has to don a Cindy Sheehan mask and sing "Stars and Stripes Forever" on the steps of the ACLU national headquarters in Manhattan.

As Howie Mandel would say, "deal, or no deal??"

gilIf they came fr... (Below threshold)
chimangaconquistador:

gil

If they came from the same people then theres definetly something rotten in Denmark.

I am not a republican, nor do I own one?

I could,nt care less what the polls say good or bad its irrelevant! kind of like the Emmys or Grammy awards. means zero nada.

Im not a bush supporter

It would be a sign of maturity if You could frame a coherent argument to support Your flailing positions let alone annunciate clearly. sincerely Chimangaconquistador..

Hey Dick,Oh, so I ... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

Hey Dick,

Oh, so I am with the terrorists because I question the President. With the mujahadeen reference.

Didn't you used to blow the mujahadeen when they were fighting the USSR? Now it is a dirty word. Whatever, you commie. You follower.

Your president ignored instructions from the outgoing administraton to place Al Qaeda as enemy #1 (instead of Iraq) in the transfer meetings. Your president went fishing when presneted with warnings that they wanted to attack America using aviation. Your president staffed the CIA with 'yes men' who failed.

But most notably, your president sat there and read "My Pet Goat" with the nation under attack. Patton slapped guys for stuff like that.

Turn off Fox News and read a book. I just started reading Cobra II - a book written by a bunch of guys who I'm sure you would describe as sniveling, weak liberals. But who are anything but.

Funny, since you are a follower you'll be following the polls soon as well, trashing your president just like everyone else.

And he ran and hid when the... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

And he ran and hid when the Ports Deal (which I happened to think was a non-issue given awful port security in general) became unpopular. He's great at hiding! Hid after 9/11. Hid after Katrina. Hid after Cheney shooting. There is only one person better at hiding than him I guess - Osama Bin Laden. Are we catching OBL anytime soon? What was that again - "dead or alive"? I'll take the former if anyone cares.

'bush sux. rethugs sux.'</p... (Below threshold)
Scoop Jackson:

'bush sux. rethugs sux.'

The fact that he was elected *twice* means nothing.
The fact that the Reps won the House and Senate means nothing.
The fact that the last time a Democrat presidential candidate got over 50% of the vote was in 1976 means nothing.

If you guys think the Dems have been doing well lately.....yikes. With friends like you, the Dems don't need enemies.

But back to the point - pol... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

But back to the point - polls are BS to some extent (wasn't Kerry going to win the election based on exit polling?), but your attack on the methodology is off-base. For whatever reason most Americans describe themselves as Democrats, no matter how they eventually end up voting. That is why you should be THRILLED when they are on the plus side - it is much harder for the GOP to get those high marks.

In my line of work we use stats all the time, but you can tell if they are true based on the buzz - the word on the street. There is a lot of anger out there right now - you know anecdotally that the POTUS is not popular, that he is being held accountable personally. He fired or pushed out a few people, but to no avail - Americans blame him. Based on that these numbers make sense. Could Colbert have done what he did a year ago? Would you see such public anti-Bush comments even last Fall? Maybe it is just the gas prices that enables people, but that does not make it less real.

And this comes from a guy who believes Bush will be back to 42% by October - I believe that America is so afraid of change that both houses will stay with the GOP.

Polls are just a collection... (Below threshold)
Dave:

Polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in "reality." And reality has a well-known liberal bias.

Moochie Hes your pre... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Moochie
Hes your president too! unless your from Mehico or something? Why would the former administration give instructions to place Al Quaeda as #1 enemy in the transfer meetings? they never did anything about Al Quaeda in 8 years and then pass the responsibility on to whoever comes next? utterly pathetic. what was "your" president doing during all the ninetys Al attacks? getting a BJ i bet. the head of the CIA was a Willey holdover not a bush yes man. I personally think all politicians are contemptible! however the lying is even more disgusting.

Democrats are immoral ... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Democrats are immoral incompetant pieces of shit. That's 100% of the currently informed of the democrat corruption , criminal activity, treason and election fraud. Those that blindly vote democrat I can't label as such including myself and my mother. So now I must ask why after awaking from my political coma and after voting democrat for almost 20 yrs, why I voted for George W Bush on Nov. 2 2004? You have to be in a complete political coma or a criminal communist piece of shit to vote for the "FRAUDS" aka the democrat party.

You would think that I would defend the democrats having voted for them the majority of my adult life. Now I would like nothing more to see their stupid phony asses lined up and shot in their sinister malicious slanderous heads. After all the penalty for treason if I'm not mistaked is still death unless the Commycrats have pussified that too.

It's no mistake that Fraud Kerry and that bitter hag Hilary Rodham were not only proud of the fact that over 80% of felons vote Democrat , they wanted change the law not on the behalf of felons but for their greedy criminal lust for power. The Democrat leadership are no different from those felons behind bars where they themselves belong. They are just more fortunate than most because of name recognition(Kennedy's) to get away with murder and crime. Their shameless ability to tell bold face lies to the masses like an actor shedding a tear on que. Is it any wonder that the majority of actors are democrats as well are the lamestream Media? These type of people were not fooling people even in the Biblical days. For in those days actors were looked upon with distrust and called "HYPOCRITES".

As far as polls are concerned the question rarely asked is who's taking them and why. This is one of the many tools in use by the democrat party in their perpetual fraud . Like their liberal professors , union leaders , race baiters in the black community , latino group mecha , and the democrat frauds never ending lies and slander via their MSM. I don't recall much of the Clinton Impeachment days except for one name , Ken Star. Wonder why. And the fact that Clintons approval ratings were well over 60% while he commits perjury and is being Impeached. While george W Bush has ratings in the 30's has commited no crimes , is going after those that repeatedly attacked us , whose tax cuts got us out of an inherited recession multiplied by the terrorist attracks destroying the Twin Towers, did in days what the Russians couldn't do in ten years in Afghanstan and took down the murderous dictator ,declared enemy of the United States as recognized by the Clinton Admin when BJ wrote the Iraqi Liberation Act. And all this while under attack by the petulant infantile failed minority democrats.

Like children they think that low job approval transtlates to a Democrat vote while ingoring the fact that their lies fraud and criminal dishonesty lost my vote for the rest of my voting days. Stupid assholes, being the Minority Party is to good and more than they deserve, the democrat party should be disolved period.

I would rather the prez get... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

I would rather the prez get a BJ than walk hand-in-hand with a member of the Saudi royal family post 9/11. That would be a start, no? Saudi Arabia is the one resource Al Qaeda cannot live without - source of funds, recruits and religious legitmacy. And Pakistan cannot control the "lawless regions" despite the fact that they are home to numerous infantry and armored divisions guarding against the Indian military. And these are our friends in the fight? C'mon, man. We all want to win the war, but are we picking the right allies?

By the end of the Clinton admin they recognized that Al Qaeda was a serious threat. And that is, I think, also an admission that they did not do a great job of handling the threat. Or they recognized it was a different animal. Anyway, they recognized their mistakes and were plotting a new course (what a novel idea). The reason that they treated it as a law enforcement issue was so that there would be no "us vs them", "east v west" struggle - and that this was inportant to the Saudis / Pakistanis / Arab Street / blahblahblah. Now we know that was not part of OBL's equation, but there it is.

W's response, according to the account in Cobra II, was to say nothing and refocus on Iraq. We can all speculate why. So when threats came in he felt that it was just some a-holes hanging out in the desert mouthing off. In addition, Condi Rice was a Cold War expert who deal in nation-state threats. They were not an opponeny W could sink his teeth into. Iraq, however...

And Tenet was a Bush fanatic! He loved the W!

Rob, you need a drink. No,... (Below threshold)
Moochzilla:

Rob, you need a drink. No, you really need a drink. Does this have anything to do with the Clippers being better than the Lakers?

You should try to get Steve Nash deported under those new anti-immigrant laws.

Wow, nuff said!... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Wow, nuff said!

Yes that Pakistan thing has... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yes that Pakistan thing has bothered me for a longggg time, the hell with letting them exist just because their hiding in Pakistan the same way they were setting up in afghanistan. i think some targeted drone hits are in order.

Man, those Republicans are ... (Below threshold)
Duke Cunningham:

Man, those Republicans are jumping off the Hindenburg like rats from a burning dirigible.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... (Below threshold)
RealitynotBS:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA stop it your killing me! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA please stop it I can't breath! HA AH HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA the decider in chief can't take a bowel movement without taking a poll. The coward of Crawford TX will not go home because of war protesters, what a lame excuse for a President.

Jimbo, Sorry... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Jimbo,

Sorry loser , scream and cry is what the failed incompetant Minority democrats do. Keep thinking that your loser party speaks for the Majority as they continue to loose the ass at every election.

"There are more Democrats than Republicans and that has always been true.What the pollsters are accurately capturing is that people are defecting from the Republican Party in droves".

More wishful thinking , keep having your wet dreams that goes for the rest of you democrat supporting idiots. The fact that you are here proves that you in light of the facts continue to support the belly crawling dims . I'm a registered democrat , got my fist computer months before Nov.2 2004 thank God and will never vote for the lying c**k suckers again. So screw all you bed wetting sore losers who have a choice and still choose to be stupid ignorant losers. No one in their right mind who knows the facts and the truth for that matter can in good conscience even consider a vote for this current collection of pond scum disguised as the so called democrat party.

You guys are a lot more opt... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

You guys are a lot more optimistic about the midterms than the head of the Republican party. Melman warned a bunch of repubs the other night that the Dems could pick up close to 45 seats in the house. Now, he's probably sandbagging, but since the Dems only need about 16 seats for a majority, and Dems have about a 10 to 18% lead in congressional polls, repubs are looking pretty shaky these days.

Rob, you are one sick puppy... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Rob, you are one sick puppy. It looks like all that raging self-loathing and doubt is bubbling to the surface. Why don't you take a time-out.

Maybe He just does not like... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Maybe He just does not like their B.O.?

AH Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ohh i cant stop! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HeeHee Ha Ha Ha Cyndy stinks! Pewww Ha Ha Stop it Laura Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha RealityisBS hA hA hA what a lame excuse for Frankens lover..

Hey, MoochHow about ... (Below threshold)
scsiwuzzy:

Hey, Mooch
How about your BJ president's veep taking money from the bin Laden family for a speaking engagement in Saudi Arabia?
How about the BJ president going to Dubai (for $300,000) in December 05, and saying : "Dubai is a role model of what could be achieved despite the other negative developments in the region."
I guess he was for Dubai too. Actually, he and Bob Dole were supporters of the Dubai ports deal.

Dick Moron said: "they neve... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick Moron said: "they never did anything about Al Quaeda in 8 years and then pass the responsibility on to whoever comes next?"

On the day that Clinton was 45 minutes late in his attempt to kill bin Laden with cruise missles, he had spent the entire morning in deposition answering questions about oral sex. I think it's fair to point out that Clinton tried to fight terrorism IN SPITE of the republican congress and the republican congress thwarted a number of Clinton administration attempts to deal with the threat. Please keep in mind the republicans' reaction to the Gore commission suggestions and imagine what implimenting any one of these might have done on 9-11.

"How about your BJ presiden... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

"How about your BJ president's veep taking money from the bin Laden family for a speaking engagement in Saudi Arabia?"

Excuse me, but the Bush family's relationship with the bin Laden family goes back to the late '70s. Osama's uncle was the first and largest investor in GW's first oil company, Airbusto. The most powerful prince in Saudi Arabia is known affectionately by the Bush family as "Bandar Bush."

Bluedog ... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Bluedog
oh really was,nt that convenient timing! If it was such a high priority why did He not continue the pursuit 45 minutes after the hearings then? or better yet use something a 'little bigger" to make sure the area was eviscerated. how many cruise missiles did Willy launch Hmmmn? why did He not order them fired wether or not He was busy Hmmmn? how ridiculous your rationalizing of the Leech from Littlerock is..

Most of all I believe in th... (Below threshold)
Stephen Colbert:

Most of all I believe in this president. Now, I know there are some polls out there saying this man has a 32 percent approval rating. But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in "reality." And reality has a well-known liberal bias.

So, Mr. President, pay no attention to the people that say the glass is half full. Pay no attention to the people who say the glass is half empty, because 32 percent means it's 2/3 empty. There's still some liquid in that glass is my point, but I wouldn't drink it. The last third is usually backwash.

Folks, my point is that I don't believe this is a low point in this presidency. I believe it is just a lull, before a comeback. I mean, it's like the movie "Rocky." The president is Rocky and Apollo Creed is everything else in the world. It's the 10th round. He's bloodied, his corner man [is] Mick, who in this case would be the vice president, and he's yelling "Cut me, Dick, cut me," and every time he falls she says stay down! Does he stay down? No. Like Rocky, he gets back up and in the end he -- actually loses in the first movie. OK. It doesn't matter. The point is the heart-warming story of a man who was repeatedly punched in the face.

So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68 percent of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68 percent approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't.

I stand by this man. I stand by this man because he stands for things. Not only for things, he stands on things. Things like aircraft carriers and rubble and recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message that no matter what happens to America, she will always rebound with the most powerfully staged photo ops in the world.

Poochzilla Why wo... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Poochzilla

Why would I need a drink for. I'm not the one crying like bitter fool trying to polish a turd aka the corrupt lying democrat party on this site.

RealitynotBS,

"HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA the decider in chief can't take a bowel movement without taking a poll. The coward of Crawford TX will not go home because of war protesters, what a lame excuse for a President".

Your fist sentence perfectly describes your failed impeached BJ Clinton the rapist. The same maggot that knowingly sold taited blood I believe it was to Canada while Gov. of Arkansas. As far as the Coward part of your drivel, you got your head up your ass. President Bush flew a plane in the National Guard more dangerous than inhaling Marijuana. Clinton the draft dodger too stupid to even know how to smoke pot correctly. Now that's a lame excuse for a President. Besides sounding like a complete Bi$ch care to make ass of yourself with anymore of your childish statements?

rQN¬ "How about your BJ... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

rQN¬ "How about your BJ president's veep taking money from the bin Laden family for a speaking engagement in Saudi Arabia?"

George H.W. Bush once was paid $1 million to speak to a group in Saudi Arabia. Are you over three times as outraged over that?

Its definitely an oversampl... (Below threshold)
chris cummings:

Its definitely an oversample. Clinton did basically the same thing with the Chinese port deals in the 90's and where was Clinton when Al Qaeda started attacking in the 90's???? Did Clinton really mean he was sorry for not taking any action against the genocide in Rwanda even though he was getting daily updates????. Why did he not take action in the Sudan???? Why did he withdraw from Somalia????

OK, Dick, can you or any of... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

OK, Dick, can you or any of your friends name even one thing congressional republicans did to help Clinton fight terrorism? Gore's commission on airport safety suggested reinforced cockpit doors, armed fire marshals on all commercial flights and increased security at check-in. How did the republican party respond? Since you don't seem to remember, I'll tell you. Republicans repeated what airline industry lobbyists told them to say: that Gore's suggestions were a "political stunt" and too expensive to impliment anyway. Dick, that's fighting terrorism republican style -- do what corporations tell you to do.

rob.You need Valiu... (Below threshold)
gil:

rob.

You need Valium pal.... And a good shrink.

All you have is a bunch of shit to trow. No real ideas. Back your words with numbers and statistics if you can big mouth.


No , You said that the Bus... (Below threshold)
virgo:

No , You said that the Bush family were friends of the Saudi,s! I would be more interested in the reasons why Clinton gets paid? whats His connection ..

Chris cummins: "where was C... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Chris cummins: "where was Clinton when Al Qaeda started attacking in the 90's????"

When Clinton attacked a Sudanese chemical factory based on CIA intelligence reports, he was roundly criticized by republicans. When he attempted to kill bin Laden with a cruise missle attack, republicans said he was "wagging the dog." Condolezza Rice complained that Clinton was "personalizing" the war on terrorism by spending too much time thinking about Osama bin Laden. This is history, man. Catch up!

Democrats would have yo... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Democrats would have you believe they care and stand for something besides their own criminal greed and lust for power like a magician would have you believe he just made the Statue of Liberty disappear. Their is just one huge difference, one is called a magic trick (Illusion) and the other fraud(REAL).

Rob,A more self-ha... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Rob,

A more self-hating Democrat I have never run across. That is, if you really are a Democrat.

I have been registered as an independent or Green ever since I finished my term of duty in the military. I was a registered Democrat for all of four years of my life. And I am 41 now. You do the math.

I think that the Democrats are weak willed, corrupt and poll driven. But the Republicans, or at least the Neocon and Christian Right version in power today are worse. Much worse.

I never voted for Clinton, never voted for Gore and in fact almost never vote for Democrats, period. I am the kind of person who spent 100 hours of his own time getting an initiative on the ballot in my home town of San Francisco to make it harder for scumbags like Willie Brown to do their back room political dealings. I am much more interested in clean government and good government than ideology.

But I realized around 2004 that we had simply the worst possible combination of corruption, incompetence, cronyism and arrogance running the country. The Dems aren't much, but they are all America has to stop the tide of Bushbot idiocy. So I donated $2000 and many weekends of my time trying to get Kerry elected. This election I intend to do tenfold what I did last time.

See, what you partisan zealots don't realize is that most of us don't really care that much which group of fools is running the country: most of us just want to be left alone to raise our families and go about our business in peace. But occasionally the idiots in charge do such a bad job that we have to go in there and make sure they are thrown out. 2006 is one of those years.

I kind of doubt that the Democrats will take the Senate in 2006, just because the game is so stacked in the incumbents favor and only 1/3 of the seats are open. But I am willing to take your bet about The House. When the currently Republican Congressman from Wyoming is worried about his seat, you know the tide has turned.

Turns out that Karl Rove's dream of a "permanent Republican majority" is about as long lived as Hitler's Thousand Year Reich. Marginally more successful though, I will grant that.

Now if the GOP can actually get their act together and nominate a moderate candidate of decent character, like Guiliani for example, you will have my vote. But the chance that pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-civil rights candidate will make it past the Republican primary is pretty much zero.

chimangaconquistador.... (Below threshold)
gil:

chimangaconquistador.

Of course the polls of 90% approval for Bush after 9/11 it came from the same people!!. Like the Galup poll. Respected around the world.

The poll industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Whay? Because it works!!. Politicians live and die by the polls. i am surprised you care to comment about politics and you don't know this basic fact.

Virgo, Clinton is one of th... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Virgo, Clinton is one of the most sought after public speakers in the world. As an Oxford PhD in Economics, he was probably talking about international monetary policy or something like that. And, he get's paid. I thought you guys were capitalists.

BLUE DOGGore sugge... (Below threshold)
virgo:

BLUE DOG

Gore suggested all this? I suggest that i am going to win the lottery ! doesnt make it happen. you still have to initiate your ideas and see them through , otherwise its just shoulda coulda woulda.

Rob,Here is a char... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Rob,

Here is a chart of Party ID over the years:

http://www.umich.edu/~nes/nesguide/toptable/tab2a_1.htm

Please tell me in which year the percentage of self-identified Republicans exceeded the percentage of self-identified Democrats.

You only embarass yourself with rants like your previous one. At least bother to do two minutes of Googling before confidently stating your opinion as fact.

Rob: "Democrats would have ... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Rob: "Democrats would have you believe they care and stand for something besides their own criminal greed and lust for power"

Rob, we've seen a number of indictments and some arrests for criminal and civil crimes lately and, strangely, all have been republicans. With a highly politicized Bush Justice Department, I would have thought we'd see some Dems by now. I'm sure you have a reasonable, level-headed explanation for this.

BluedogYou mean Yo... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Bluedog

You mean You dont know what clinton was speaking about? than you cant possibly know the reasons why He was paid??

Virgo, it wasn't as simple ... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Virgo, it wasn't as simple (or simple minded) as a mere suggestion. Gore was given the job of running a presidential commission on airline safety with respect to terrorism. His commission came up with suggestions for legislation congress could consider. They rejected all of the commission's suggestions out of hand at the demand of the airline industry. Republicans called it "politics." I just point out that if Gore had had his way, 9-11 may have never happened.

Virgo: "You mean You dont k... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Virgo: "You mean You dont know what clinton was speaking about? than you cant possibly know the reasons why He was paid??"

Hard to respond to such an inane statement, but I wasn't invited to the event. But, Clinton was paid to speak and gave a speech. He's given hundreds of speeches for money just like all of them do if they can. I don't see what the issue is here.

stephen colvert.Yo... (Below threshold)
gil:

stephen colvert.

You can believe wherever you want. You can create your own reality. As long as we talk about the future you can hope.

The reality TODAY IN THE PRESENT is that Bush stands at the lowest valley of his presidency. He won it fare and square. Kathrina, The Dubai port debacle, illegal imigration, record budget deficits, a prescription drug program that only 30% of seniors like, the war in Iraq, etc, etc.

In November we will see. As it stands today I can tell you it does not look good for the Reps. Is a simple statement based in reality nothing else.

Why yes bluedog, they,re no... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Why yes bluedog, they,re not using the justice department to intimidate political opponents like the former did.

Bush's current 65% disappro... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Bush's current 65% disapproval rating is the second-highest ever recorded for a president. Dick Nixon's 66% disapproval in the weeks before he resigned nudges Bush out for the worst ever recorded. In addition, only once before has Gallup ever had a disapproval rating more than twice the approval and that was also Nixon.

Gil, You me lik... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Gil,

You me like with polls or something? Or how about this. Besides , since when did the facts or the truth ever deter the Rats and their Media.

T H E P R O G R E S S I V E R E V I E W

The Clinton Legacy

The Progressive Review

This list was compiled at the end of the Clinton administration.

Our Clinton Scandal Index

RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

* According to our best information, 40 government officials were indicted or convicted in the wake of Watergate. A reader computes that there was a total of 31 Reagan era convictions, including 14 because of Iran-Contra and 16 in the Department of Housing & Urban Development scandal. 47 individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine were convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes with 33 of these occurring during the Clinton administration itself. There were in addition 61 indictments or misdemeanor charges. 14 persons were imprisoned. A key difference between the Clinton story and earlier ones was the number of criminals with whom he was associated before entering the White House.

Using a far looser standard that included resignations, David R. Simon and D. Stanley Eitzen in Elite Deviance, say that 138 appointees of the Reagan administration either resigned under an ethical cloud or were criminally indicted. Curiously Haynes Johnson uses the same figure but with a different standard in "Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years: "By the end of his term, 138 administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."

STARR-RAY INVESTIGATION

- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 14
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3

CRIME STATS

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122

SMALTZ INVESTIGATION

- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million

CLINTON MACHINE CRIMES
FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS
HAVE BEEN OBTAINED

Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery (4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts (1), illegal campaign contributions (5), money laundering (6), perjury, obstruction of justice.

OTHER MATTERS INVESTIGATED BY SPECIAL PROSECUTORS
AND CONGRESS, OR REPORTED IN THE MEDIA

Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, improper acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, improper futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, inviting drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime to the White House.

ARKANSAS ALTZHEIMER'S

Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar.

Bill Kennedy 116
Harold Ickes 148
Ricki Seidman 160
Bruce Lindsey 161
Bill Burton 191
Mark Gearan 221
Mack McLarty 233
Neil Egglseston 250
Hillary Clinton 250
John Podesta 264
Jennifer O'Connor 343
Dwight Holton 348
Patsy Thomasson 420
Jeff Eller 697

Dick: "Why yes bluedog, the... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick: "Why yes bluedog, they,re not using the justice department to intimidate political opponents like the former did."

I'm sure you have a legitimate example of this kind of behavior that will stand to a little scrutiny. The only questionable behavior in that regard that I remember is that of Kenneth Starr's staff. But, I know you're not suggesting that the Bush Justice Department wouldn't prosecute a Democrat if they had the chance.

gil i would say more... (Below threshold)
Sillary Rotham:

gil
i would say more then 30% cant even understand it?boy the sky is falling isnt it?

So now I must ask why af... (Below threshold)
mantis:

So now I must ask why after awaking from my political coma and after voting democrat for almost 20 yrs, why I voted for George W Bush on Nov. 2 2004? You have to be in a complete political coma or a criminal communist piece of shit to vote for the "FRAUDS" aka the democrat party.

Somehow I find it hard to believe that for twenty years you belonged to a party you don't even know the name of. It is the Democratic Party, only talk radio twits have started calling it the "democrat party" in some weird attempt to belittle it.

Everyone who laughs at posters who claim to have been lifelong Republicans (excuse me, members of the Republic Party) who switched because of Bush, laugh at Rob, he is the flipside to that coin.

Rob, I'm not sure which dar... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Rob, I'm not sure which dark hole you pulled that nonsense out of, but it's full of historical untruth. No member of the Clinton administration was ever indicted for a crime of any kind committed in the process of doing their duty. Yes, Cisneros was caught for tax evasion, but that was related to paying off a mistress before he became a member of the Clinton administration. The record for the most indictments is the Reagan administration. And, by your post, I assume you agree that it was worthwhile for congress to investigate the missing file boxes as a matter of our right to privacy. Since you are no doubt consistent in your views, you must be angry with our current congress for not investigating the possible misuse of wiretapping American citizens.

No, the main thing George B... (Below threshold)
zen_less:

No, the main thing George Bush cares about is bass fishing, as evidenced by his comment that the best moment of the last five years was hooking a 7.5 pounder. Bush doesn't care at all about the Presidency, the country or the rest of the world. Just his vacations.

Rob: "- Number of Starr-Ray... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Rob: "- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 14"

In 1994, the republican-led Resolution Trust Corporation after an extensive investigation concluded that the Clintons had done nothing wrong with respect to Whitewater. Neil Bush, on the other hand, was responsible for the collapse of Silverado Savings, which cost the taxpayers over $1 Billion. He has been banned from the Savings and Loan industry.

DavidYou comment t... (Below threshold)
gil:

David

You comment that reality has a well-known liberal bias in reference to the present polls.

How so?. If the polls favor Bush as they did after 9/11 are they also liberal? How can that be?

Polls are apolitical. Pollsters are profesionals, not spiners.

They put the numbers, and people like us spin them any way we want.

Some others like Rob on this blog simply can't handle reality and numbers, have a psycothic episode and start insulting all Democrats incoherently.

Since most of the posters h... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Since most of the posters here are woefully deficient on the historic details of our last administration, why don't we focus on the current one. The reason Bush's numbers are so bad is that the myths which were built up around him have broken down. The aw-shucks, steely-eyed resolve, cowboy act doesn't work if people question your competence. In addition, people have come to understand that Bush rarely says anything new -- he keeps repeating the same things over and over. Plus, he's always been a phony and that shows through after awhile. How can people continue to view him as a rugged cowboy when he's never on a horse? He's a guy who wears cowboy boots and cowboy hats, but doesn't ride because he's afraid of horses. That's the definition of "poser" and I think in time people catch on to that. And, I haven't even gotten to the worst foreign policy disaster in generations, a disaster that he and his people have brought upon us with lies and deceit.

Blue dog i,ll refer You to ... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Blue dog i,ll refer You to Robs post above and say no more. good night.

sincerely Dick Morass a good Clintonite! ohh the stories i could tell?

When I try to post a link t... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

When I try to post a link to a fact based site, the University of Michigan survey, I get blocked as a spammer.

Whatever.

Type "anes guide to political behavior" into Google, go to the first link, then to the "Partisanship" link (#2) then to the # Table 2A.2. Party Identification 3-Point Scale link and tell me where on there the GOP ever had a larger percentage than the Democrats.

Actually, I realized that with his latest rant Rob has officially fallen into pointless-troll-repeating-Rush-Limbaugh-talking-points land and is probably a hopeless person to attempt to have an honest debate with.

Enjoy your twisted version of reality Rob, I hope it makes you happy. Don't blow your brains out when your heros are all thrown out of office in 2006 and 08.

gil, simple they knew that ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

gil, simple they knew that was the right side to be on thats why...

Is Bush actually afraid of ... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Is Bush actually afraid of horses? I did not know that.

Do you have a legitimate source for that rumor?

Dick, any good Clintonite w... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick, any good Clintonite would know that the stuff Rob posted is from the "Clinton Chronicles" gang and is filled with just out and out lies. For example, he says 47 people from the "Clinton machine" (whatever that means) were convicted or pleaded guilty. If you were to exclude the two or three who were tried in Arkansas for things that were proven to be unrelated to the Clintons and Cisneros for lying about his mistress, could you name even one of these "criminals" Rob thinks exist? Again, nobody in the Clinton administration was ever indicted for any crime committed in the process of doing their civic duty.

ahh Jimbo, they dont get th... (Below threshold)
AlphaOmega:

ahh Jimbo, they dont get thrown out! their terms are up.

Jimbo, it depends on how mu... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Jimbo, it depends on how much store you put in some of the Bush books like "Fortunate Son" or "Bushwacked," but think about it -- have you ever seen Bush riding a horse? Reagan sure got a lot of milage out of riding tall in the saddle. I'm sure they would provide us with a video or still of Bush tall in the saddle if there were one.

I'll say this slowly so you... (Below threshold)
John S:

I'll say this slowly so you Democrats will understand. George Bush is not running for anything in 2006. Certainly not the House or Senate. His poll numbers suck but Harry Truman nearly reached 80% disapproval. And numbers for Congress are worse than Bush and the numbers for the media are lower still. But the point is, although Americans hate Congress, they poll favorably in the high 70s if asked about THEIR Congressman. So 97% will be re-elected, like they always are, and Republicans will hold Congress.

John, you don't have to spe... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

John, you don't have to speak slowly for democrats. We'll see in November. Repubs will pull out all the stops because they know what's at stake. As a republican, would you favor bombing Iran to help hold on to congress?

Remember, John, Ken Melman ... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Remember, John, Ken Melman is running around telling repubs that they could lose up to 45 seats. Dems only need 15. We'll see.

Bluedog That crime... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Bluedog

That crime syndicate is long gone and 8 years was long enough. lets let bygones be bygones. i could,nt care less about his mistresses, that never bothered Me,but since you asked? How about Marc Rich or Charlie Tree for example? I have to admit however that the Clinton administration was masterful at stonewalling and delaying investigations much better then the Bush admin, not that thats worth bragging about.

Oh and by the way, John, yo... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Oh and by the way, John, you cited Harry Truman's poor ratings, but what you didn't point out was that in the midst of those poor ratings, republicans took the House. You see, presidential ratings do affect House and Senate races -- after all, look at 1994. And Bush's negatives are a lot worse than Clinton's were at that time.

astig, I'll bet a 12 pac... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

astig, I'll bet a 12 pack of [insert preferred brand of beer] on the GOP for each house (a case in all at risk); and if either side wins both houses, the loser has to don a Cindy Sheehan mask and sing "Stars and Stripes Forever" on the steps of the ACLU national headquarters in Manhattan.

We're really closing in on something here; I can't believe anybody does anything else with the internet...

Are you close enough to go to New York and do something like this? That would be a lot more expensive than beer. How about the loser posting a picture of themselves on this site, wearing the tee shirt of the winner's choice?

I prefer microbrews, btw.

Dick: "I have to admit howe... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick: "I have to admit however that the Clinton administration was masterful at stonewalling and delaying investigations much better then the Bush admin, not that thats worth bragging about."

Really. So, when's that second part of the Iraq investigation that Pat Roberts promised going to take place? When will congress investigate the procurement scandal that got David Safavian arrested. When will congress get around to investigating that missing $9 billion in taxpayer money we lost in Iraq? The Bush administration prevented the military from killing Zarqawi on three occasions before the invasion for political reasons according to our own Pentagon -- when do you think we'll see an investigation into that? A male whore under an assumed name visited the whitehouse over 200 times, at least 14 of which came at night with no checking out -- I know republicans in congress like a good sex scandal -- when are they going to get around to that one?

Dick, why would you even br... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick, why would you even bring up pardons. I know the so-called liberal media had a field day with Clinton's pardons, but if you would take the time to check into George HW Bush's pardons, I think you would find some very meaty stuff that was never discussed in the "liberal media." How about a convicted heroine smuggler 2 years into a 55 year sentince for bringing pounds of heroine into the country pardoned and flown back to his native Pakistan in the middle of the night on Bush's last day? You'd think that would have been worth more than one small article buried deep in the New York Times. How about pardoning 4 indicted co-conspirators who are scheduled to testify as to your part in a crime? Does that sound worthy of outrage to you or were Clinton's pardons just a lot worse than that?

These things sound like con... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

These things sound like conspiracy theories and i have no point of reference on which to comment..

Rob.If this is wha... (Below threshold)
gil:

Rob.

If this is what you call statistics and numbers you need to take a deeeep breath and come down. Then go to statistics and records on any search engine and look it up.

Altough this blog is not to talk about Clinton (he left six years ago). I must point out to you that if you want to talk about Ken Star's investigation you will come to realize that HE FAILED on the legal side. In the end he came out with a blow job!!so much for WHite Water!!.

As for the long, long list you have about what the Special Prosecutors, and the media investigated, is that suposed to be an idictment?, or simply what they investigated. You give a bunch of special Prosecutors 100 million dollars, and 10 years of time, and I bet they can investigate a longer list than the one you just came up.... By the way who was investigated for rape?

Since you equate an investigation as proof of guilt you care to comment on the present investigation going on with Lindsi, Cheney, Bush, Rove on the CIA lick investigation for starters?.
They are investigated therefore they most be guilty correct?. Nothing like consistent ideas!!.


Yeah Patrick Fitzgeralds co... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yeah Patrick Fitzgeralds come up with so much has,nt He?

Jhon.No!! We Democ... (Below threshold)
gil:

Jhon.

No!! We Democrats did not know Bush was not running for ofice again!!. Please tell me it ain't so!!.

History is full of examples of power change in mid term elections caused by presidential bad poll numbers.

For example Clinton!!. Remember Newt? He made the mid term elections a National referendum on Democratic corruption, and ineptness and gave the people the "Contract for America". Presto the Reps are back in power!!.

But of course this can't happen now, we are only Democrats, and the polls are of course wrong.

You sound like Rummy arrogantly dismissing the oposition in Iraq and looking like a walking Omelette now.

GilYeah but you gu... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Gil

Yeah but you guys thought the last election cycle was going to be a referendum on Bush for being selected instead of elected remember? and He ended up whipping Your puttuties, so theres no point in trying to predict it, it will be whatever it will be.

Your reality right Gil? Jus... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Your reality right Gil? Just like when your nitwit Minority Speaker Pelosi says Stupid things like "the real truth" or my favorite "there is nothing wrong with spending the Social Security Funds so long as there is the prospect or intent on paying it back".

"only 30% of seniors like". Where did you find this little gem. Last I heard there was a 60-70% apporoval of the Program. They don't like it compared to what? having a live in nurse hading them their pills and handing them a glass of water?

And the Katrina failure was all about the incompetance of two democrat elected buffoons Blanco and Nagin with her give me 24 hrs to think about it to the flooded buses, not to mention the one sided reporting by the Media. Have they found those other 9,000 dead yet that Nagin predicted? No, of course not because they like most of what the democrats party says,it is furthest from the truth. As the democrats spin and complain to cover their incompetant behinds they are completely oblivious of the thousands that are being rescued from their rooftops in the same broadcast. Then there is the classic from Nagin "I'm tired of hearing helicopters, I want to hear some Jazz!"

Over 1000 died directly as a result of their incompetance but all you want to talk about is anything other than the failure of democrats in a position of resposibility especially when they prove for all to see why they are not trusted and in the Minority. You and your party blame everything and anything on President Bush because your a sore loser and in the Minority sinking fast.

Your pathetic and disgusting in your quest to regain power by smearing and Obstructing a sitting President in a time of WAR. Your party is all talk and no action, the perfect fraud. Do as I say , not as I do. These are the words that the Democrats preach at their fundraisers: "Social Security belongs to us and we need to get back to where we belong, in power." BULLSHIT! Behind bars or in an insane Assylum is more like where they belong.

You would love to be able to deny the fact that your Democrat Party has vowed "to say anything" and "do whatever it take to regain power". So you shouldn't be all that upset when I call you liars and frauds because it's a fact that you know , I know and anybody remotely paying attention knows as well. Democrats mouths water at the thought of potential voters and haven't wasted time as they are actively trying to recruit and con those 11 plus million poor illegal immigrants in hopes they are given amnesty. It's getting harder and harder for democrats to find ignorant voters since the more inforned one is of the facts and aren't broadsided by the democrats perpetual fraud the less likely they are to vote for them.

How sad that they must resort in the hopes that the citizens remain dumb for them to regain power. Can't they acheive it by merit , good old hard work on behalf of the citizens of the entire Country. Right! From the mouth of the now drug treatment seeking Patrick Kennedy .."His proud declaration at a Democratic gathering that he's "never worked a day in his fucking life."

Speaks volumes doesn't it?

You know Rob somehow I agre... (Below threshold)
virgo:

You know Rob somehow I agree with You more and more everytime you scold the disenfranchised..keep it up.

Virgo.Fair enough.... (Below threshold)
gil:

Virgo.

Fair enough. Problem with your remark is that in the National elections Bush was not looking at 32% approval rating. And the referendum was going to be on the war in Irak not on the "selected" thing. Bush took the election win declared himself to have "political capital, and I intend to spend it" and we now see what he has done with it.... Jack shit.

The referendum in Iraq is still out. Bush confused an electorate willing to trust him with the war at the time of his re-election . He forgot that trust is EARNED that's why his polls now stink.

Yes, it does speak volumes ... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Yes, it does speak volumes Rob, but probably not in the sense that you intended.

I notice you have not been able to reply to my question:

what year did self-identified Republicans pass self-identified Democrats?

"Since you equate an inves... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

"Since you equate an investigation as proof of guilt you care to comment on the present investigation going on with Lindsi, Cheney, Bush, Rove on the CIA lick investigation for starters?.
They are investigated therefore they most be guilty correct?. Nothing like consistent ideas!!".

There you go again. You prove the point I make when you pretend to speak for the Majority. Now your trying to speak for me. You are the one that is asuming since presented witth the overwelming evidence you can't help but to be on the defensive since you yourself can't deny the obvious so you instead attack me. All I did was respond to your request for statistics.

As far as the many fraudulent investigations which democrats have admitted to being out to get Delay and others , they are just that , false claims. The scope of corruption in the democrat party is astonishing like comparing Jupiter(democrats) to earth(Republicans). And since there is virtually nothing democrats can convict the President of as far as personal dealings they just make things up about him and every single high ranking member in the Republican Party while completely ignoring their fellow democrats around them faling like flies convicted of crimes and going to jail. Your three year long investigation ,wet dream to get Rove has failed and are still strugling to save face with Libby. The whole thing is a complete failure by the dims in their desperation to Clintonize a Republican, any Republican.


Rob.SENIORS/ PRESC... (Below threshold)
gil:

Rob.

SENIORS/ PRESCRIPTION DRUG PLAN

The 30 % approval rate by Seniors was actually in the news at CNN TODAY.

SOCIAL SECURITY

Nanci Pelosi and Bush then have a lot in common. That is because last I checked Bush (Not Pelosi) is running the largest budget deficits in the history of our country in part financed by our Social Security Program. By the way, Last I checked it is the same Republican congress that in the past bitterly complained about the Democrats tax and spend ways, doing TODAY all the spending.

Now we have the Republicans charge and spend congress. And Bush? Not A SINGLE VETO on any spending bill by Cogress IN SIX YEARS!!. Now that's what I call a fiscaly responsible President and congress right Rob!!.

HURICANE KATHRINA

A BIPARTISAN commission investigated what went wrong in the aftermath of huricane Kathrina. Their findigs were that there were failures at ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

Seriously Rob are you capable of dealing with reality, and have a serious debate or are you one of those people that just get a high at insulting others? You continue to rant, and spill hate about eveithing Democrat and ignore commission findings, polls, numbers, facts, etc. What is your problem?. From where are you getting your stuff?. You are making Rush Limbough look sane!!.

I don't have a problem stating that Blanco should not be re-elected,or that Democrats can be incompetent and corrupt. Why can you accept anithing wrong with a Republican administration with poll numbers in the 30's?. Why do you think Brownie had to resign as head of FIMA?, what do you think we are still in Iraq?, why do you think we are running the deficits we are running?,, who was in bed with the Arabs in the port deal?, etc, etc.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

Bush is the main proponent of Amnesty for illegal immigrants or you don't see the news or read?.

You are not here to debate, you are here to spill hate mindlessly lashing out at everithing Democratic.

One last thing Rob. I hope you don't turn to heavy drinking when the Dems re- gain the house as they seem to be poised to do. Right now with no Democrat in real control you sound to be ready to go out and strangle them, I don't want to think what would happen if we win!!. I see a Doctor in your future my friend.

" Somehow I find it hard to... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

" Somehow I find it hard to believe that for twenty years you belonged to a party you don't even know the name of"

Never said I "belonged" , I said I blindly voted for them.

"As a republican, would you favor bombing Iran to help hold on to congress?
Posted by: Bluedog49 at May 9, 2006 07:42 PM"

This is the kind of stupid questions that democrats make then accuse the Republicans of hadving made them. Like the false claims made by democrats about Sadam and Al Qaeda to 9/11. Now the the idiots in the Lamestream media call the Incompetance and Criminal Leaks in the CIA , President Bush's mess. That is the fraud and lies that is the Democrat way. The Sedition in the dims party and their media is worn like a badge of honor. They are shameless and clueless and think everyone is stupid when it is they that prove on a regular basis just how stupid and rediculous "they" are. The CIA has been at war with this Administration for years being the very liberal organization that it is engaging in treasonous leaks. How the hell does this become his mess?

To the Democrats the fact that President Bush actually takes of tough tasks and has what they don't to get it done. Dems just sit on their hands , cry and call everything a mess. Why would the dems fix something that is helping them out never mind the fact that crimes are being commited in the process and our National Security is being compromised? Traitors behave that way.

Rob.Oh I get it !!... (Below threshold)
gil:

Rob.

Oh I get it !!.

If a Democrat is investigated he/she is guilty.

If a Republican is investigated he/she is cowardly beeing attacked by snake like Democrat operators.. The worms!!.

Now that is very fair and balanced!!.

I rest my case I am talking to a hack. I don't know if you get it Rob but you are comming across as a person INCAPABLE of balancing your opinions.

As for the statistics. I was asking for real ones not a bunch of invented stuff that some one investigated.

Let me give you one example. You want to find out what the statistics on Clinton Economic numbers were you go Clinton Economic Statistics on any search engine and look them up. This are Government statistics, not Rush Limbough bull shit rant. I try to deal with facts not with Rush . Clinton was investigated about a bunch of illegalities by Ken Star FACT. Also is a Fact that in the end Clinton was cleared of the White Wather investigation, and an attempt was made to impeach him on perjury charges about basically a blow job .The attempt FAILED. The Republicans paid dearly in the subsequent elections for their support of an IDIOTIC partisan witch hunt. In the process Nute Gingrish lost his job, and his career, his replacement was discredited and retired,and a series of other Republicans were envarsed over simmilar Sexual behavior and have to also retire. THOSE ARE FACTS ROBY BOY.

Rush Limbough is a very sick puppy high on pain killers you should stop acting like him.

Like I said, If an investigation equals guilt as you make Clinton guilty, then BE CONSISTENT. Oh, I forgot, that word does not register in your brain.

I though the EXACT same thi... (Below threshold)

I though the EXACT same thing. Imaginary math.

George H.W. Bush o... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:
George H.W. Bush once was paid $1 million to speak to a group in Saudi Arabia. Are you over three times as outraged over that?
Nope. I'm not very outraged that Clinton spoke in Dubai. The point you've missed: If Mooch et al would rather have a president that gets BJs and commits perjury to hide it, than a president that has ties and has been friendly with the Saudis etc, they'll have to wait for another BJ afficianado to come into the Oval Office. The argument of "Well, at least the previous president wasn't in bed with them" arguement only holds when he was, in fact, not in bed with them. I'll let waveman or virgo make the obvious jokes about "in bed", "come into the Oval Office" and Bill Blinton
I love it! Just love it! Re... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

I love it! Just love it! Reading the lefty ravings is so entertaining. The dimm party died in 1968. They just haven't faced the truth and are in deep, deep denial.
The simple truth is that there has not been a single liberal elected president as a liberal since LBJ in 1964. And the libs are getting even further left since then.
Every Democrat elected to the presidency since has campaigned as a moderate Republican. Two Southerners running as Bubba. That wasn't an accident, that was the only strategy the Democrats
could win with. Pretending to be what they are not.
Carter running as a Southern Governor barely defeated Ford, the only appointed President in US history. And he only lost because the press portrayed him as a klutz and dimwit who pardoned Nixon.
Clinton elected twice with a plurality. In other words twice more people voted against him than for him. And this was another Bubba, a southern Governor who hurried back to execute a retard while out campaigning. Followed by the great political achievement of losing both houses of congress.
If only ten percent of the hype attributed to Clinton was believed by the American people Igor would have won in 2000 by a wide margin. Like Bush 41 did in 1988 following Reagan.
Since 1994 the dimms have lost 5 election cycles for the house. If they think a campaign who's central thesis is we hate Bush, raise taxes, bug out of Iraq and appease the mullah's and raise taxes is going to be the winning strategy they are smoking what Bill said he never inhaled.
I wont dispute the fact that often enough the Republican party is the stupid party. But thanks to the Democrat party they will continue to be the lucky party.

Left out of this discussion... (Below threshold)
DaveI:

Left out of this discussion so far is the fact that the most recent Fox News poll (or at least the most recent I know of) puts Bush at a stratospheric 38%. Does the Fair and Balanced network deserve the same round dismissal when they show that a clear majority disfavors the president (and by extension the GOP at large)?

I do believe that the coming elections are the Democrats' to lose. Not that they may not oblige in that department, but I give the Republicans the uphill battle to fight.

The crux of the issue is that a great number of Americans who voted for Bush last time around now feel that they've been made to look stupid. They're not happy about that. I in turn am not happy for them -- they're not bad people, or stupid.

Rob: that last point should hold special relevance to you in particular. Please provide a link, or links, to the source(s) of your statistics, so that I can see them myself and see how they were derived, and by whom. Without clear attribution, I have to conclude that they're made up either by you or your source. Whether or not the Democratic party takes the majority this fall, you've got to come to terms with the extremes of failure this administration has demonstrated in the scant 16 months since the second innauguration. From the looks of it, you might want to consider some therapy. Seriously.

"Like the false claims made... (Below threshold)
DaveI:

"Like the false claims made by democrats about Sadam and Al Qaeda to 9/11"

Rob, what were those claims, specifically?

However Davel, you cannot p... (Below threshold)
Yourstruly:

However Davel, you cannot pretend to speak or know what 100,000,000 voters individually think or what they will choose next election..

I think the claims were along the lines of saddam had no ties to al quaeda or terrorism which of course were just as false as the no WMDS argument? they were simply moved during the long run up to the war!

Gil,"Seriously Rob... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Gil,

"Seriously Rob are you capable of dealing with reality". Perfectly capable.

"Nanci Pelosi and Bush then have a lot in common. That is because last I checked Bush (Not Pelosi) is running the largest budget deficits in the history of our country in part financed by our Social Security Program"

Excuse me? Financed by what? I believe it's called the peoples tax dollar. I won't bother going into foreign investment. You have already shown your stripes with the "Our Social Security Program". In order to finance something that means that money is being loaned from point "X" in order to pay for "Y" correct? Well explain then how it is possible to pull billions of dollars out of vault "X" where not one single dollar exists? Your cliam that Social Security is financing our budget deficit is not only obsurd it is a shameless lie.

Just like the same Clinton lies repeated numerous times by the queen of hypocracy herself just today , Nancy Pelosi and by many others in the past 5 years the myth about a bugdget surplus. I prefer to call it a lie well because that's what it boils down to given the shamelessness and lack of credibility of the democrat party in their perpetual fraud and intentions to mislead and deceive the people.

Treasury Direct

* Bills, Notes, Bonds & TIPS
o Auction Information
o Electronic Services
* Savings Bonds
o TreasuryDirect
o Savings Bonds Tools
* The Public Debt
* SLGS
* Government Securities Market Regulation
* Resources
o Site Map
o Search
o Forms
o FAQs
o Contact Us
o Mailing Lists
* About Us
o Law and Guidance
o FOIA


The Debt To the Penny

Current Amount

05/08/2006 $8,361,088,635,034.39


Current
Month

05/05/2006 $8,357,004,387,013.42
05/04/2006 $8,355,169,281,082.87
05/03/2006 $8,359,417,405,652.46
05/02/2006 $8,365,365,674,396.50
05/01/2006 $8,351,568,193,125.12

Prior
Months

04/28/2006 $8,355,718,074,718.49
03/31/2006 $8,371,156,293,376.33
02/28/2006 $8,269,885,515,386.04
01/31/2006 $8,196,070,437,599.52
12/30/2005 $8,170,424,541,313.62
11/30/2005 $8,092,322,205,720.65
10/31/2005 $8,027,123,404,214.36


Prior Fiscal
Years

09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00


SOURCE: BUREAU OF THE PUBLIC DEBT

Please show me where there is a plus sign above. From the looks of it a more accurate statement from the dems would in fact be that the deficit has doubled in the 8 years under Clinton, right?


I done for tonight , maybe I'll pick where I left off tomorrow God willing. And no I'm not a Religious freek because I mentioned the word God , Haven't been to church in years prior to my two Uncles funerals last month. Goodnight.

"The CIA has been at war wi... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

"The CIA has been at war with this Administration for years being the very liberal organization that it is engaging in treasonous leaks."

I get it. It is the "liberal CIA" that is after Bush.

You wingnuts just get funnier and funnier.

Thanks for the laugh.

I notice you still cannot answer the question, even with the facts right in front of your face.

If you guys think the Dems ... (Below threshold)

If you guys think the Dems have been doing well lately.....yikes.
Posted by: Scoop Jackson at May 9, 2006 04:54 PM

Unfortunately being a whore pays better then being a saint. That simple truth explains every Republican victory since the 50s.

Unfortunately being a whore... (Below threshold)

Unfortunately being a whore pays better then being a saint. That simple truth explains every Republican victory since the 50s.

Posted by: John Gillnitz at May 9, 2006 11:30 PM

I should clarify that the above only applies to Presidential elections. The Republican party started acting more like Amway in the mid '90s.

Rob.You are really... (Below threshold)
gil:

Rob.

You are really begenning to freak me out.

I point out that Bush is running the largest deficits in our nations history in part financed by our Social Security program and you respond..... "Excuse me financed by what ? I believe is called the peoples tax dollar".

What?. I just don't understand what you are now telling us.

Do you not know that we have been financing our deficits with our Social Security program. It has been done for many years Rob. Our Tax payers dollars are not nearly enough to sustain Government spending that's why we call the deficits.

The mith about a budget surplus? I tell you what go to Clinton Economic Statistics. Type Surplus. And at least learn something.

Again, Rob unestly you need to stop what you are doing. Research a bit before you go on your rants. I hate to tell you (Please don't feel insulted) but you are comming across as a hard head, and an uninformed lowd mouth.

You are confusing the numbers. You went to a great lenght to put numbers that reflect the overall balance of account of our federal government. I nore any Democrat is claiming that Clinton erased all the debt that the federal government has accumulated for the past 60 years. I was talking about surpluses that the Clinton administration produced after Federal Budgets were presented. Bush inherited these surpluses. They were in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

The Klooless Konservative B... (Below threshold)
MG:

The Klooless Konservative Bloggers Poll Interpretation Manifesto:

Republican President:
Poll Numbers High: An obvious sign that America is on track due to convervative values permeating the heartland.
Poll Numbers Low: Polls are merely reflecting the medias liberal bias and the republicans unflagging moral leadership in spite of polls.

Democratic President:
Poll Numbers High: Polls are merely reflecting the medias liberal bias and the democratics slavish deference to polls.
Poll Numbers Low: An obvious sign that America is on track due to convervative values permeating the heartland.

cubanbob.The Democ... (Below threshold)
gil:

cubanbob.

The Democrats died in 1968 because Clinton and Carter were Democrats from the South?.

That is really brilliant logic!!.

Is funny how a dead party in 1968 was in control of the Senate and the Congress, and over 60 % of the governorships in our nation.

How would you call them ... The Somby party?.

Who is telling you that all the Democrats are is liberals?. Are the Republicans only composed of Right Wing nuts?.

If no Democrat liberal has been elected for president since pilot W went missing in Alabama for the duration of his training who cares?.

The Dems have lost the last five cycles. So?. Can you please tell me how many cycles did the Republicans loose before re-gaining congress? A hell of a lot more than 5 correct?. Did that make the Republicans a bunch of loosers?. Not in my opinion. Politics go in cycles that is all. If you are smart politician you catch the cycle, or see the trend. Right now the trend is again going the Dems way.

As for the Democratic plan for change. If they are smart they will hold on to the plan for as long as they can. Let the Republicans self destruct (They are doing a great job). Then toward the end (around September) go all out with a plan. That gives them shock value, while at the same time denies your opponent of the time to establish a counterattack.

After going back to read... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

After going back to read more crap from you, Gil I won't bother wasting anymore time tomorrow picking up where I left off because it is perfectly clear now that you are two faced fork tongue embicile.

"and an attempt was made to impeach him on perjury charges about basically a blow job .The attempt FAILED".

He was impeached in the House of Representatives and democrats were disgusted with Clinton. It was the complatency and failure of the Senate to do their "Elected Duty" and Impeach the Criminal Lying Traitor Clinton. You probably think it was a coinicidence that the Senate vote was 50-50. How do translate that as a victory for Clinton? Only a Clinton Apologist would . THEY DID THE SCHMUCK A FAVOR RATHER THAN FURTHER EMBARRASS OUR COUNTRY OR MAYBE IT WAS THOSE HUNDREDS OF FBI FILES THAT THEY KEPT AT THE READY. Oh by the way , how about releasing those 110 pages from the Barret report if you think your dear Clinton is such upstanding human being or Fraud Kerry?

The shame and embarrassment that our Country currently undures is a direct result of the Senate failing in their duty to uphold the law and investigate and prosecute the most corrupt democrat jackal to disgrace the White House and this Country. Because they let this jackoff off the hook regardless if they had their FBI files and threatened to smear them with their LIBERAL MEDIA AS WAS COMMON PRACTICE with "THE CLINTONS".

WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE AND WILL CONTINUE TO FOR YEARS. The democrats are in the Minority because of Clinton and Clinton's troubles and problems were Clinton made. Your ignorance is blinding and makes you look like a fool but then so do your democrat leaders so in your eyes you are perfectly normal.

From now on , why don't you prove with multiple links , facts and witnesses the bullshit you repeat from your handlers. I wonder if Prosecutors get tired of prosecuting democrats especially when they act worse than the most spoiled brat?

I've written a response on ... (Below threshold)

I've written a response on the Political Forecast, entitled "Polls, Principles, and Pragmatism" regarding the nature of this debate. I attempted a trackback, but the version of WordPress I'm using seems to have a bug I can't currently fix. Anyone wishing to read it can go here:

http://www.politicalforecast.net/2006/05/09/polls-principles-and-pragmatism/

Whoops. Latest NYT/CBS poll... (Below threshold)
TheyWillFallIntoThe20sOnceRoveGetsIndicted:

Whoops. Latest NYT/CBS poll matches USA/Gallup, at 31%.

Clearly, they must have polled the exact same people. Only POSSIBLE explanation.

Just like the only POSSIBLE explanation for CBS/NYT, CNN, USA/Gallup, Fox/Opinion, AP-Ipsos, Cook/RT, NBC/WSJ, Pew, LAT/Bloomberg, Time, and Newsweek's polls to ALL show Bush CONSISTENTLY falling in a tailspin into the low thirties over the last few weeks is...you guessed it...that DAGNABBIT liberal-biased reality. (http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm)

And the *Democrats* are the ones in denial, you say? Fascinating.

See you in November...

Bluedog asks, "As a republi... (Below threshold)
Cybrludite:

Bluedog asks, "As a republican, would you favor bombing Iran to help hold on to congress?"

As an American, I favor bombing Iran before they get nuclear weapons, regardless of what effect it has on who controls Congress.

astig --I'm in Bos... (Below threshold)

astig --

I'm in Boston, and willing to put that much on the line (just because I won't have to make a special trip to do it) -- but your idea is much more efficient.

They do have 12 packs (bottles) in microbrews up here. Harpoon IPA on my end.

Now to find just the right t-shirt for ya. Would that be extra small? (heh heh)

Yes, "Bush doesn't care abo... (Below threshold)
Gabe:

Yes, "Bush doesn't care about polls". How do we know, because he told us. And he's not a liar. How do we know? Because he told us.

All praise the Dear Leader, for we should all be so principled.

Bush doesn't care about opi... (Below threshold)
chris Robison:

Bush doesn't care about opinion polls -- in fact, Bush truly doesn't give a damn about what the American Majority wants or even cares about. Bush couldn't care less if 100% of the public demanded, for example, an increase in the minimum wage. He'd ignore them and do what he wanted, even if it were the exact opposite of what the majority of the American people wanted.

Democracy! Bush prides himself on not giving a damn on what the will of the people! Bush swears by jesus Almighty that he will decide what is "good" or "bad" and the opinion of the majority is irrevelant and meaningless.

Again, hurray of democracy under Bush! The People Don't Matter! One more time for the Republicans who, apparently, are totally ignorant of what a democracy is: Bush Doesn't care What The People Want Or Think.

He is, by any definition, a king or a constitution dictator (albeit one with term limits)

He cares about the Mexs and... (Below threshold)
Al Shopton:

He cares about the Mexs and the Homos too!

Now, you say I'm a Republic... (Below threshold)
viet vet:

Now, you say I'm a Republican, which I'm not.
Posted by Jay Tea

Poor Jay Tea - now he can't even admit an association with the republicans. Hahahahaha.

Proves the adage that there's no honor amoung thieves. Hahahaha

Why do republicans (and those who don't even admit to being republicans anymore) hate the USA so MUCH?

Im not a bush supporter<br ... (Below threshold)
viet vet:

Im not a bush supporter
Posted by: chimangaconquistador at May 9, 2006 04:41 PM

Hahahahaha. How pathetic this site has become. Now all the Bush apologists are denying that they're republitards and "bush supporters"!!!

Boy, and to think back on how arrogant the "conservatives" and "libertarians" (remember: they are NOT repulicans, and Richard Nixon is NOT a crook) were just a few short months ago.

"However Davel, you cannot ... (Below threshold)
DaveI:

"However Davel, you cannot pretend to speak or know what 100,000,000 voters individually think or what they will choose next election.."

You're completely right on that score, YoursTruly. My speculation about what's on voters' minds and what that'll translate to in November is just my opinion. Didn't mean to present it as fact, apologies if I seemed to.

"I think the claims were along the lines of saddam had no ties to al quaeda or terrorism which of course were just as false as the no WMDS argument? they were simply moved during the long run up to the war!"

That's the clarification I was looking for. I thought Rob was going to say that somehow the Dems invented the idea that the admin had linked Saddam and Al Qaeda.

However, the question of Saddam's terrorist links is not settled. Certainly the validity of the claimed link to Al Qaeda is debated (I don't buy it).

Finally, if we went to war, and as a result the WMD have gone off to parts unknown, that makes the invasion doubly stupid. I was suprised no one made that point during the runup.

Rob.February 12 19... (Below threshold)
gil:

Rob.

February 12 1999. The Senate found Clinton NOT GUILTY that is the extent of your Bull Shit impeachment pal. The vote was NOT 50-50 it was 45 in favor 55 against. Republicans controlled the Senate, and the House. The not guilty vote was bi-partisan. As with Clinton's surplus you confuse the facts. I talk about a surplus in the Federal Budget, and you come back with the General Balance on the National Debt, I talk about an impeachment, you talk about impeachment articles that were voted down. You are either very confused, or down right IGNORANT.

I don't have to consult my remarks, I just have to live in reality (I strongly sugest you do the same). You need to get out of the hole you are and watch the news on TV, read the newspapers, and get some fresh air.

By the way, let me give you an idea as to how you sound on any issue (maibe it will snap you out of your mentality).

You patetic attempts to defend Bush the traitor are those of a two tong imbecile.
The stupid, corrupt Republicans are going to loose all the power they live for. All the investigations into their corrupt society are unmaskig them as to what they are, a bunch of corrupt bastards.

Sounds like you?. Would you consider I went the deep end if you read this kind of crap?. If you do I would not blame you.

By the way just a reminder. The subject of this blog is Bush's poll numbers not Clinton's record. You hatred of Clinton sounds to me rather unhealthy and extreme. Have you consider some therapy?.

Over two-thirds of the Amer... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Over two-thirds of the American public now believes that the country was much better off in 2000 when Clinton left office than it is now. After 8 straight years of lowering poverty levels, poverty has been rising steadily since Bush took over. After 8 straight years of declining abortion rates to a 25-year low in 2000, abortion rates have risen every year under Bush. After 5 years of Bush, we have the largest debt and deficit in history and the largest divide between rich and working class since the beginning of the 20th century...

And most of you Bush supporting morons are still angry about blow jobs. I think maybe you guys need to get a blow job.

Aren't there now like 3 pol... (Below threshold)
danjr0802:

Aren't there now like 3 polls with him at 31%?

Ah Gil give him a break! He... (Below threshold)
chimangaconquistador:

Ah Gil give him a break! Hes still getting over the fact that Clinton was sush a liar for 8 years, thats enough to traumatize a lot of people in this country

Ah bluedog , i believe Bush is against abortion! so if the numbers are higher? its because of the choices you lefties make.

Maybe You should ask His wife about the blowjob thing? as thats where He should have enjoyed them.

I did a poll amongst the pe... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

I did a poll amongst the people in my town and Lo and Behold 88% of respondents think the media lie and bush got 60% approval on the economy! so there

I did a poll amongst the pe... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

I did a poll amongst the people in my town and Lo and Behold 88% of respondents think the media lie and bush got 60% approval on the economy! so there
Posted by: Dick Morrass at May 10, 2006 01:22 PM

What town is that? Stepford?

Your fist sentence perfectl... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Your fist sentence perfectly describes your failed impeached BJ Clinton the rapist. The same maggot that knowingly sold taited blood I believe it was to Canada while Gov. of Arkansas. As far as the Coward part of your drivel, you got your head up your ass. President Bush flew a plane in the National Guard more dangerous than inhaling Marijuana. Clinton the draft dodger too stupid to even know how to smoke pot correctly. Now that's a lame excuse for a President. Besides sounding like a complete Bi$ch care to make ass of yourself with anymore of your childish statements?
Posted by: Rob in LA Ca. at May 9, 2006 06:15 PM

Rob in LA Ca. - you're not doing the conservatives on this site much of a favor. You come across as an illiterate moron. Are you a product of Bush's famous (and failed) "No Child Left Behind"?

He sure has Clinton pegged ... (Below threshold)
Al Shopton:

He sure has Clinton pegged though!

He sure has Clinton pegged ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

He sure has Clinton pegged though!
Posted by: Al Shopton at May 10, 2006 03:38 PM

You think so? He sounds like a typical whining conservative to me. Bill Clinton hasn't been president for 6 years. Rob needs new material - he's as stale as Henny Youngman.

And it's too bad he doesn't turn that insightful (your opinion) eye on George Bush and enlighten us with his critique of this failed presidency.

Chimichunga: "Ah bluedog , ... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Chimichunga: "Ah bluedog , i believe Bush is against abortion! so if the numbers are higher? its because of the choices you lefties make."

Chimi, that Bush is "against" abortion is irrelevant. The more important question is why have abortion rates risen every year for the last five years after falling to a 25-year low in 2000 after 8 years of declining abortion rates. The answer is that abortion rates follow poverty rates. The more poverty, the more abortions. Bush's policies have led to more poverty and so there are more abortions.

But, blaming democrats when republicans control all three branches plus a broad swath of the media is just plain pathetic.

Dick Morrass: "I did a poll... (Below threshold)
Bluedog49:

Dick Morrass: "I did a poll in my own town..."

God, that's so pathetic. Listen, I could win every argument if I were allowed to make up facts. The world just doesn't work that way, Dick. I hate to break it to you.

BluedogOh really? ... (Below threshold)
Dick Morrass:

Bluedog

Oh really? tell it to the MSM and democratic party ! because youve just desribed them to a T...

chimangaconquistador.... (Below threshold)
gil:

chimangaconquistador.

Clinton was beeing blown by interns for 8 years?.
Now I know what Rob's problem is .... ENVY.

Bush (and you) should know by now now that it takes more than straight sex to run a country.

I just don't understand wha... (Below threshold)

I just don't understand what its gonna take for you conservatives to stop drinking the kool-aid. We lost two towers, Iraq, the surplus and the city of New Orleans on account of the Decider. How many more blunders do u need before it because apparant to the 31% of u that still support Bush that the guy ain't up to snuff.

Boring, Boring.App... (Below threshold)
gil:

Boring, Boring.

Apparently tonight all Republicans out there are in "talking points" class.

What gives oh mighty defenders of the great Decider?.

GOP, please take my advice.... (Below threshold)
JML:

GOP, please take my advice. Whenever a messenger delivers bad news, blame the messenger. Attack the messenger. Destroy the messenger. Whatever you do, ignore the message at all costs. After all, acknowledgement of bad news might entice a leader to ajust his strategy, thereby showing weakness. Always stick with the original strategy, no matter how the game unfolds. Stay the course, no matter what. Please, don't ever change.

I see the bed wetters ar... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

I see the bed wetters are still at it. I see there are a couple new masterbaters , friends of Gilberto and Perro Azul no doubt.

Let's see what lies pendejo #1 has brought to us to laugh at.

"We lost two towers, Iraq, the surplus and the city of New Orleans on account of the Decider".

All this translates to is stupid little loser crying his ass off and throwing a tantrum.

You are really showing your imaturity as well as stupidity. Excuse me a moment as I laugh at you. Oh and I could care less about BJ getting a BJ so long as it's not in the Oval Office, take it to the basement of something. Can't blame him for straying given that he's married to wide assed Communist pig, ugh!

I'll say this as fast as I can cause you lying idiots are a waste of time. Twin Towers destroyed by terrorists thanks to the Clintons blowjobs . President Bush did the job that democrat President are incapable of doing , Regime Change. Surplus ? what surplus? Was Bubba making Lewinski spit into collection viles when she was done? Fact is The Clintons didn't leave a surplus or anything for that matter agter they looted the White House.

And New Orleans? Exactly what could the President have done with the 1000 dead citizens killed by Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco? Their fricken dead. The levies Broke because stupid criminal democrats in the most corrupt city in our Country used the money for levy repair like it was their own piggy bank. They built themselves some Casinos instead and a nice big water fountain.

Now what ever you bozos do from here on out , please use a condom , you are aware of the consequences of inbreeding, right ? Just say no.

Hi Rob!Did you kno... (Below threshold)
DaveI:

Hi Rob!

Did you know that something like 2% of adults still wet their beds? And a similar percentage have trouble staying dry during the daytime? This isn't geriatrics I'm talking about either. I wonder how many Republicans have this trouble. Why, your local GOP party membership probably includes at least one bed-wetter.

I don't have the inbreeding statistics handy, but it's well-known that virtually everyone masturbates. Again, must be plenty of Republicans in that collection.

So it's instructive that while trying to insult your idealogical opponents you continue to inadvertently insult your own. Republican policies are like that -- designed to hurt the opposition while hurting its own.

Now, on the Uncontrollable Mouth-Frothing front, the statistic seems to skew heavily Republican, with an especially high concentration among GOP males living in L. A....

Ha Ha Ha Dav... (Below threshold)
Al Shopton:

Ha Ha Ha

Davel ,time to change your Depends again?

Actually, it's my girlfrien... (Below threshold)
DaveI:

Actually, it's my girlfriend, and Depends don't cut it.

Heh. Just a joke, really. Hoping for a nice response from Ron from his outlying planet.

It is a well-known fact her... (Below threshold)
Randy:

It is a well-known fact here in the conservative blogosphere that Clinton's all-powerful penis is the most powerful force in the universe and must be stopped at all costs.

Ha Ha close very close, act... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Ha Ha close very close, actually its the Dark Side of Clintons Wanton shaft that must be vanquished at all costs..

Another poll came out today... (Below threshold)
Jimbo:

Another poll came out today, with Bush at, you guessed it, 31%.

Keep living in your fantasy world where the "liberal" CIA and the "liberal" Wall Stree Journal are conspiring to bring down our Great Heroic Leader.

Jimbo31% huh? Darn... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Jimbo

31% huh? Darn I had My hopes all set on voting for Frat boy again? now you went and ruined everything..




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

tips@wizbangblog.com

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy