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RFK Jr: Bush Stole the 2004 Election

Robert F. Kennedy has an article in the newest edition of Rolling Stone which claims Bush stole the 2004 election. The assertion itself is ridiculous on its face, but his argument is even better. Kennedy bases his entire piece on this premise: the pollsters and their exit polls were accurate. The votes that were cast, therefore, were rigged.

Ed Morrissey has taken the time to refute Mr. Kennedy's assertions. Here's a portion:

Kennedy never addresses the ridiculous notion that a sample poll will have exquisite accuracy, while the real vote somehow is unreliable. As we often say, the only poll that really matters is taken behind the curtain and doesn't rely on a pollster to conduct it. And his argument about the US government endorsing exit polling's exquisite reliability is also fallacious. The government uses exit polling to look for massive vote fraud on a scale far outside the margin of error for exit polling, not to determine the accuracy of results to the tenth of a point. Only when exit polls show a remarkably different result than the vote counts do they come into play at all. The Ukrainian fraud did not involve a couple of percentage points, but rather a ten-point swing -- and other obvious polling irregularities had already been documented, such as armed raids on polling centers.

Dan Riehl points out that NPR debunked Kennedy's theory before his article even saw ink.

The Confederate Yankee is spot on when he said this hit piece was aimed at Ken Blackwell, a black, conservative Republican gubernatorial candidate in Ohio who, as Secretary of State in 2004, presided over and certified Ohio's election results.

Take a look at what Kennedy says about Secretary Blackwell:

But in the battle for Ohio, Republicans had a distinct advantage: The man in charge of the counting was Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of President Bush's re-election committee.(43) As Ohio's secretary of state, Blackwell had broad powers to interpret and implement state and federal election laws -- setting standards for everything from the processing of voter registration to the conduct of official recounts.(44) And as Bush's re-election chair in Ohio, he had a powerful motivation to rig the rules for his candidate. Blackwell, in fact, served as the ''principal electoral system adviser'' for Bush during the 2000 recount in Florida,(45) where he witnessed firsthand the success of his counterpart Katherine Harris, the Florida secretary of state who co-chaired Bush's campaign there.(46)


Blackwell -- now the Republican candidate for governor of Ohio(47) -- is well-known in the state as a fierce partisan eager to rise in the GOP. An outspoken leader of Ohio's right-wing fundamentalists, he opposes abortion even in cases of rape(48) and was the chief cheerleader for the anti-gay-marriage amendment that Republicans employed to spark turnout in rural counties(49). He has openly denounced Kerry as ''an unapologetic liberal Democrat,''(50) and during the 2004 election he used his official powers to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of Ohio citizens in Democratic strongholds. In a ruling issued two weeks before the election, a federal judge rebuked Blackwell for seeking to ''accomplish the same result in Ohio in 2004 that occurred in Florida in 2000.''(51)

The Democrats just can't accept that they lost in 2000 and 2004. As far as they are concerned, power is their right, their entitlement. Therefore, as they see it, Democrats don't lose elections. The elections are stolen from them, which is why Kennedy puts all his eggs in his the-exit-polls-were-accurate basket. Now their target is Secretary Blackwell. And it appears that no smear is low enough for them.


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Comments (64)

Unfortunately for Mr. Kenne... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Unfortunately for Mr. Kennedy the only fraud occuring in Ohio was the fraud perpetrated by the DNC! there were convictions even, I wonder if He will blame the convictions on Blackwell as well?

SORE LOSER bwah bwah.

While some of Kennedy's arg... (Below threshold)
tony:

While some of Kennedy's arguments are spurious, the fact remains Gore won the popular vote in 2000. The Electoral College is anachronistic at best and anti-democratic at worst. In 2004, many votes were not counted- mainly for technical reasons related to the technology in poor (democratic leaning) districts. This skewed the counted votes toward Republicans. As an Independent voter, I look forward to the 2006 congressional elections with trepidation. The current administration has politicized every level of the bureacracy- including those involved in ensuring a fair election. While Kennedy's comments may or may not be off base (I haven't read them personally), his overall concerns are well founded.

The current admini... (Below threshold)
The current administration has politicized every level of the bureacracy- including those involved in ensuring a fair election.

Um, it's Democrats who are against showing photo ID to vote and in favor if "instant registration" and other schemes to invite vote fraud. It's no accident that many unions have election day as a day off; it takes a while to vote in multiple places. Of course, then there are the thousands who vote in one place on Election Day and elsewhere by absentee ballot. A cursory check of Florida and New York voter rolls turned up hundreds of these. But Democrats are against any ways of improving this, saying any system improvements that reduce fraud are somehow "racist" or "obstacles" to voting.

The Electoral College is anachronistic at best and anti-democratic at worst.

One thing it does is protect the countryside from the massive fraud possible in cities. 5000 extra votes in Chicago will swamp out legitimate votes in rural Illinois, but at least other rural states without large cities are spared this. (And rural areas can't fight back with their own fraud even if they wanted to; in small precincts, enev a few extra votes stick out.) Detroit consistently has VERY high voter turnout; all efforts to investigate and legal monitoring of polling sites are termed "racist" and met with intimidation and threats.

KIM: I KNOW THIS OFF COURSE... (Below threshold)
tim:

KIM: I KNOW THIS OFF COURSE, BUT... WHY IS THAT EVERY MILITARY TRIAL RESULTS IN THE CONVICTION OF SOME LOW RANKING SUBORDINATE? DOES THE UCMJ HAVE ANY ENLISTED "JURY OF MY PEERS," OR IS IT ALL IDEALOGUE PENCIL PUSHING OFFICERS OF THE SORT WE HAVE LEAKING MILITARY AND NATIONAL SECURITY SECRETS.

WHAT DO KENNEDYS AND KERRYS SAY ABOUT MASS? I'LL NEVER GO TO MASS... ALSO, SCOTTER SOLD ROIDS TO BONDS VIA "THIS ADMINISTRATION"!!

tony: if you're truly indep... (Below threshold)
tim:

tony: if you're truly independent, you should be deeply troubled by the left's lack of ideas, not some obscure conspiracy that had no effect on the electorate throughout the rest of the u.s. you just categorized the left's base with poor, ill educated voters - how do you begin to explain that perpetual state of misery with which the left champions its causes. and that's not "right wing" conspiracy theory/talking point!

TimThat post is ju... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Tim

That post is just off the scope.

In most democratic countries w/ elections, voters tend to vote generally in line with their economic status and interests.

Only in the US, where Republicans can turn out pluralities of voters due to non-participation of nearly 50% or more of the electorate, can they obtian victories when most of their voters are part of the Middle Class.

This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family. Instead, the Republican candidates are able to push hot-button issues w/ strong emotional pull & thus fool their typical voter into voting contrary to his economic issues.

For example, while the US macro-economy appears to be robust, the reality is that the wage & purchasing power of most American workers has been completely static or declined since 2001.

While wealth abounds in the ranks of the top 10%, the reality for the Middle Class is much dimmer.

Yet there are millions of ignorant Republicans from the M.C. who persist in voting Republican. How dumb is that????

KimSorry, but no m... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Kim

Sorry, but no matter how you stand Reason on it's head, in December of 2000, The Chimp was appoiunted president by SCOTUS, and then barely, w/ a 5-4 split.

The Court stopped the recount in FL. That is tantamount to appointment, not a procees in democracy called "counting the vote."

"This is because the... (Below threshold)
JannyMae:


"This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family."

Thanks for the laughs, mak44. Your whole post is funny, but that's my favorite part.

I'll let somebody else fisk it for you.

Mak44Two assertion... (Below threshold)
tblubrd:

Mak44

Two assertions with absolutely no backup. Leading, of course, to a conspiracy theory that says only the ignorant voted.

This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family.

For example, while the US macro-economy appears to be robust, the reality is that the wage & purchasing power of most American workers has been completely static or declined since 2001.

What hidden room are you getting this stuff from? Looks like a pipedream - wait, maybe that's it. Put down the pipe and read more. Before you type.

Try not to bore everyone with a warped sense of BDS. It's not working.

Yeah Mak the court stopped ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Yeah Mak the court stopped the 4th recount because they could see the cheating going on in 3 Fla counties! each time they counted they would mysteriously come up with more votes for the Globally small minded Gore while ignoring military absentee ballots.

A 5/4 decision is called winning the popular vote not appointing..get over it already, the CHIMP beat the SIMP.

These moonbats don't unders... (Below threshold)
RA:

These moonbats don't understand that liberals have been fudging their own polls, trying to sway public opinion. Then they believe their own propaganda. Where there is no honesty their should be no trust.

Im one of those "I gue... (Below threshold)

Im one of those "

I guess I used to think that lower taxes, a strong military and a federal government focused on doing a few important tasks well and little else actually were beneficial to me.

(And yes, I am fully aware that the last statement there has not been met during the last 4 years)

But I guess I'm just ignorant.

The reality for the middle class is that we actually have one in this country, and it is growing...because those from below are climbing up through hard work and initiative.

And if you think unlimited social programs will HELP the middle class, you need to reconsider your logic. Massive entitlement spending does not enlarge the middle class...it eliminates it.

***I was just thinking about the motivation behind the entitlement mentality and I think I finally understand the entire purpose behind it.
The goal of the left is to eliminate the Rich entirely...and they believe that the Middle Class should embrace that goal since it will rocket us to the top of the heap - albeit with no change in our income. (Kind of like the old promotion 'in name only' you get sometimes at work.) But what they don't understand is that the Rich already cover a lion's share of the burden of government. Removing them from the picture will never liberate us but only serve to further enslave us.

There will always be people who are richer than I. And there will always be those who are poorer. My job is to do my very best with what I have received and not get bent out of shape with what others do with what they have received.

"The Electoral College i... (Below threshold)
cmd:

"The Electoral College is anachronistic at best and antidemocratic at worst."
Funny how you never hear that whine when a Dem wins an election, isn't it?

Oh, and mak - you can scream "what's WRONG with Kansas, you ignorant, Jeebus-freak, homophobe, trailer-park hayseeds?" until you're blue in the face, but insulting potential voters by claiming they're "completely ignorant of the economic issues" isn't going to get you any closer to the White House. Funny how you "reality-based" folks can't ever seem to choke back your bile long enough to let that lesson penetrate your skulls.

A thief thinks every one i... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

A thief thinks every one is a thief. The Democrats have such a long history of vote fraud they assume that when they loose it's due to fraud.
Tony's assertion of Gore's popular vote victory is faulty. The so-called votes happened to occur in a few rather suspect areas where massive irregularities occurred. Had those "votes" been challenged they would have most likely been disqualified. Intersting enough most if not all of the districts that have voting scandals tend to be overwhelmingly Democratic and the election officials, guess what, Democrats. It reminds of a line by Jimmy Breslin who once wrote in a novel to the effect " if they owned a gas station, they couldn't earn a buck even if they stole the customers cars". Gore tried to rig it in Florida by cherry picking the most Democratic counties in the state for a recount instead of having all 67 counties recounted, trying to change the election rules during an election. He tried to scam and was shot down. In the end even the Miami Herald as lefty as they come and who hates the Bush family like poison had to admit the truth that Gore lost after they rechecked the ballots.
There is a reason there is an electoral college, the same one each state has two senators. The United States is just that, a federal union of united states. Otherwise the few large populous states would dominate the nation. That is exactly why the founders created the present system.

Interesting enough W got more votes 2000 and 2004 than Clinton/Gore received in 1992 and the 1996 elections. A point always overlooked by the left when the truth gets in their way. Indeed there were more votes against Clinton/Gore than for them in both of those elections. Ironically enough the only demonstrably crooked election outcome in the 2004 election was the Washington State election for governor by the Democrats.

mak44 a/k/a the economist a/k/a commie boy while still aboard LSD Airlines orbiting 1968 still cannot believe the American people simply will not accept that the Communist Party USA d/b/a the Democratic Party has not been elected as vanguard of the proletariat by the people if only the people knew where their interest lie.
The typical Republican voter according to him is an emotional voter and an idiot who must be lead to the socialist paradise by his betters who know and understand his interest better than him. The lefties can't reconcile the reality of their being so utterly wrong and their perception of their righteousness and truth of their beliefs. It will be fun to see them scream when they fail again in November.

The Democratic Party represents the interests of civil servants, the unions, welfare parasites, socialists and criminals. Blue states.


It's people likr mak that ... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

It's people likr mak that muk things up. Hey mak, be sure sure to tell the truth and mention me every time you shed your minority tears. I'm a registered democrat of 20 yrs who by merely paying attention saw the democrats for what they are , a perpetual fraud. You be sure to mention that you complete babbling idiot. You are a useful idiot to the Commycrat Party , how stupid is that?

Kennedy is right, it's an a... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Kennedy is right, it's an amazing assembly of facts that shows precisely how badly the Republicans have screwed this nation out of a fair election.

Every day I meet people who surprise me with the anger they express towards Republicans and Bush.

I'll stick my neck out and predict we won't see a Republican president for 20 years once Bush leaves office, and it's a good bet that the Democrat-led Congress which takes over after this November election will have turned things around before 2008.

It will be a pleasure to hear the little piggies squeal in horror.

So why in the world are Sen... (Below threshold)
DOUG BOOK:

So why in the world are Senate "Rebublicans" so intent upon providing yet another dependent voting block for the Democratic party? I'll be damned if I understand the immigration scam backed by people who should, supposedly, know better. Isn't overcoming 90% of the black vote in each election challenging enough? Self-serving types like McCain, Graham and Hegel I can understand. And the left-wing republicans, OK. But 22 total votes! I just don't get it.

King of fools , You have... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

King of fools , You have just woken yourself to the Democrat perpetual fraud. Nothing is ever what it seems , especially their fasle outrage and shameless attempt to show genuine concern. They make me want to vomit when they put on their show for the cameras and then you here them Mo Fo-ing the very same people when the cameras are off and they are boarding their cozy jet in their never ending fundraisng with fake ass faces perpetrating their ceaseless perpetual fraud. Democrats leave a stink on everything.

Recounting only in Democrat... (Below threshold)
robert:

Recounting only in Democratic counties, ignoring military votes, different rules for each county, setting aside portions of State law...

Why oh why did the SCOTUS get involved when the Fl Supreme Court had worked long and hard to keep things fair.

Gore is a very reasonable guy, as judged by recent speeches. As President he would have invaded Michigan, not Iraq, and not only would we be out sooner, those SUV's would be toast boy.

Sometimes things just arn't fair.

Typical liberal cant get fa... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

Typical liberal cant get facts straight. Supreme Court voted 7-2 to stop the stupid 3-county-only vote count in FLA - then the voted 5-4 to stop it immediately. Pay attention! As for RFKjr, looks like he's running for prez in '08. Cant wait to hear him on the campaign trail - such a great speaker - perfect dem - sounds like he is constently crying.

Lee how many people do yo... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Lee how many people do you have up your ass at any given moment? Your a pathetic little sore loser and a liar. Democrats = Fraud "VOTING FRAUD". You minority loser have spent every waking moment trying to decieve the people by smearing your betters and hoping to fool the public with the complete incompetant frauds like Kerry , Gore and all your criminal bunch. Here in California democrats are smearing their own for a chance to run against Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Voting fraud , negative adds is a democrat way of life. The last thing they want to run on is what they think qualifies them. That's is why your the Minority Party, People are sick of you lying ass criminals .

I don't understand why peop... (Below threshold)
Taylor:

I don't understand why people will take the time to even discuss the two parties in this way. To say either has a hard-line set of goals or values and then defend them so vehemently is silly. The petty bickering and "home team" mentality is nothing more than a great vehicle for a few cheap votes every election.

Geez, here we go again. The... (Below threshold)

Geez, here we go again. The "case" cited by Kennedy happens to be an order issued by a district court judge allowing people who were not on the voter rolls to vote anywhere in Ohio instead of the precinct where they live. Blackwell maintained you could cast a provisional ballot in your precinct of residence only. The unions argued you could cast AND HAVE COUNTED a provisional ballot anywhere. On appeal, the 6th circuit reversed the order Kennedy cited in most particulars, and held you could CAST a provisional ballot anywhere, as the Dems wanted, but it would only count as a VOTE in the precinct where you live, as Blackwell argued and as Ohio law has always stated. Thus the only "voters" disenfranchised were those who 1)did not appear on the voter rolls and 2)did not live in the precinct where they were trying to vote. In other words, people who WEREN'T ELIGIBLE to vote were permitted to cast provisional ballots, which did not later count as votes if the person wasn't eligible.(See the actual opinion of the appellate court at 387 F. 3d 565, instead of a PDF of the partially-overturned, partially-affirmed district court order). As for purging the rolls of registered voters who had not voted in the last two presidential election, that has been the law in Ohio for as long as I can remember (at least 40 years). Also, the County Boards of Election in Ohio are bi-partisan, with most board employees hired locally by the majority party. So the purging carried out in overwhelmingly Democrat Cuyahoga County was carried out by a bi-partisan board, led by a Democrat and the work was done by the mostly Democrat employees.

But hey, don't let a few facts get in the way of the great "stolen election" myth.

Speaking of stealing elections, maybe we should discuss the fact that overwhelmingly Democrat Cleveland, in 2004, had more "registered voters" than it had live inhabitants over 18.

Thanks Cubanbob. Dead on t... (Below threshold)
Big D:

Thanks Cubanbob. Dead on target.

Liars think everyone else is a liar. Thieves think everyone else is a thief. These people think it is "obvious" to everyone else around them.

Democrats steal elections. They have stolen them successfully for a long, long time (side note: mak44 et all - might want to spend some time looking at how JFK stole the election from Nixon. Or perhaps how they consistently stole elections in the south for decades after the civil war).

Democrats accuse the president of fraud because, well, it is what they would do if they were in his position. It is probably what they tried to do. It is what made the election even close, considering the losers they have nominated lately.

Better yet, accuse Bush of being Hitler. Then, naturally, anything you say or do would be okay since, well, it's Hitler see? Wouldn't you do just anything to get rid of...Hitler? Did I mention Hitler? It's okay, since we are trying to steal an election from...Hitler!

Sadly disfunctional.

This is because the typi... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family.

I am so glad someone let me in on this. I am a typical Republican voter making under $100K a year. I guess that I was mistaken in thinking that the economics degree that I earned in college helped me to understand economics. I need to run down to our election office and ask them if they will change the Republican primary ballot I cast last week to a Democratic one.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, mak44. In the future, I will be sure to get with you about how to vote in my own self-interst because clearly your superior intellect is exactly what I need.

F***ing idiot.

GeminiChuck& then ... (Below threshold)
mak44:

GeminiChuck

& then the "democratic" solution after the 7-2 vote would have been to order a statewide recount, which was Gore's original misstake in asking for only 3 counties.

BUT

The activist conservatives, in the true "originalist's" spirit decided to take the election out of the hands of the voter and appoint a Chimp as the Originlist Founding Fathers might have preferred in any event w/ their original Constitutional design.

Let's take the vote away from women & non-property owners as originally intended and let the state legislative bodies choose the president as was done in the old-fashioned way. Then we could really boast about "Americaqn Democracy" to the rest of the world.

mak44,Lucky for yo... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

mak44,

Lucky for you there isn't an IQ, a reading comprehension, or a history test before being allowed to vote, because you would fail all three.

Steve LWith... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Steve L

With your degree in Econ and w/ a national debt in excess of 900 trillion and a balance of payments deficit of 800 billion a year, if you think you'll be living the future in economic comfort from Republican financial management, you are ignorant.

And, while your wage status may have improved since 2001, the vast majority of your peers have seen their purchasing power decline or remain stagnant at best.

With interest rates on the rise and w/ the oncoming fuel-push inflation ready to gush into the core CPI, you will see even faster purchasing power erosion along with a growing possibility of recession.

The piddling average tax cut from the beneficent Chimp will hardly give you a couple of extra tanks of gas a year while top 10% of the wealthy are getting tax cuts in the 10's of thousands of dollars a year, ramping up the national debt at the cost of yours and your children's future.

In addition, the vast majority of jobs created under the Chimp's economy are for wages substantially lower than prior lost-job compensation.

Welcome to Chimp George's economic devolution for the fools & the ignorant!!!!!!

Sheik Yur Bouty An... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Sheik Yur Bouty

And just upon what is your silly comment based????

mak44 - re: FLA 2000<... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

mak44 - re: FLA 2000

and THEN the DNC sent in their team of lawyers to critical districts to get them to throw out all the military absentee ballots simply because the shipping dates missed the deadline (of course, Dems hate deadlines when it affects them - like keeping the polls open until the busses carrying their repeat voters get there)(and so much for supporting the military - "Jeez, dont let those guys vote!")

and THEN the major lib newspapers combined their resources to do a thorough vote count of the whole state and guess what? Bush still won! Get over it! No, wait - keep whining about '00 & '04 - send RFK-the-cryer out to make speeches - we lover the comedy and it wins us elections.

TaTa

"With your degree in Eco... (Below threshold)
JannyMae:

"With your degree in Econ and w/ a national debt in excess of 900 trillion and a balance of payments deficit of 800 billion a year, if you think you'll be living the future in economic comfort from Republican financial management, you are ignorant." -- mak44

You just get funnier, mak44. Nothing like cherry-picking facts to try and support your unsupportable point.

The national debt is the fault of the Republicans? What spending cuts have the Democrats proposed to decrease it? None?

And, while your wage status may have improved since 2001, the vast majority of your peers have seen their purchasing power decline or remain stagnant at best. With interest rates on the rise and w/ the oncoming fuel-push inflation ready to gush into the core CPI, you will see even faster purchasing power erosion along with a growing possibility of recession.

This babble is utterly unsupportable by actual data, but what else is new?

With interest rates on the rise and w/ the oncoming fuel-push inflation ready to gush into the core CPI, you will see even faster purchasing power erosion along with a growing possibility of recession.

Where did you get that, your crystal ball?

The piddling average tax cut from the beneficent Chimp will hardly give you a couple of extra tanks of gas a year while top 10% of the wealthy are getting tax cuts in the 10's of thousands of dollars a year, ramping up the national debt at the cost of yours and your children's future.

Really? Is that why actual tax revenues have greatly increased since the tax cuts? Ramping up the national debt? What a load of poppycock.

Funny, that you ignore the inconvenient facts of the percentages of income that the middle class and the, "rich," pay. You knew, right, that the, "rich," provide the vast majority of tax revenues, right? And you also knew that the middle class pays less taxes, which is why they get less dollar benefit when taxes are reduced? How can middle class tax payers get 10's of thousands of dollars in tax relief, when they don't pay 10's of thousands of dollars? Silly me, I'm using logic, even though I'm an ignorant Republican.

In addition, the vast majority of jobs created under the Chimp's economy are for wages substantially lower than prior lost-job compensation.

Another statement that is completely unsupportable by fact. Did you get a degree in spouting BS?

Such a pity for you that wishing things were true, doesn't make it so.

What I love about this blog... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf:

What I love about this blog is that someone like Mak44 makes an absolute asanine statment and seemingly groups of people rush in to set the record straight. Mak44, no doubt, returns to his home site of DailyKos or moveon.org, where he fills his tank at the BS station. People like Mak44 believe their own lies, kind of like Kennedy. The Kennedy bros. benefitted from their fathers connection with organized crime. When they failed to recognize that fact, they paid the price. RFKjr. is not his father, he just whines like him.

Steve L, having an economic... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

Steve L, having an economics degree probably realizes that a raw number deficit is an illogical way to protray as it it is more accurately portrayed in terms of percentage of GNP...in which case the deficit isn't nearly the worse we have had....and BTW, it hasn't been in the numbers you state for nearly 2 years....it's been revised downward by the CBO several times now.

oh, and it's never been 900 trillion--your off by some order of magnitude. If I'm not mistaken it's never been above 450 billion. Billion. Not trillion. For fiscal year 2005 it had been profected to be approx. 375 billion but came in around 325 billion.

Sorry, but when you spew numbers that are nearly 1300% off you can't expect us to take you seriously.

Ah I thought he meant it wa... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

Ah I thought he meant it was trade deficit. National debt he is only wrong by an order of 100. The national debt is capped at 9 trillion. It hasn't been positive since Kennedy was elected.

I happen to live in Ohio an... (Below threshold)

I happen to live in Ohio and have done for the past 13 years. Prior to that, I lived in Southern California. Trust me when I tell you, now is better than then.

However, vis-a-vis Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, among the many reasons Democrats hate Ken Blackwell is that he is a black, conservative Republican and, worst sin of all, he had the equipment to stand up against their intimidation tactics time after time.

I happen to be a very experienced paralegal and legal secretary and when I first moved here, dealing with the Ohio Secretary of State's office was an unparalled nightmare - if you can believe it, worse than dealing with California's!

When Ken Blackwell was elected as Secretary of State, he made a major and significant difference in that office both in its efficiency and in its responsiveness to the community - particularly those of us in the legal community who have to deal with them almost daily. Now this is a pleasant part of State government with which to deal and that goes a long way with me! So yes, he has my vote for that reason in addition to the obvious.

JannyMae... (Below threshold)
mak44:

JannyMae

You are really full of it....

You slobbered on your keyboard: "Nothing like cherry-picking facts to try and support your unsupportable point.

The national debt is the fault of the Republicans? "

There is no cherry-picking here ...

When Carter left office in 1981, the National debt was a little over 1 trillion. When Reagan/Bush left office in '93, the debt stood at 4.4 trillion, a 400% jump over all the previously accumulated debt.

When Clinton left in '01 it was about 5.75 trillion, and, unlike Reagan?Bush, the Clinton budget had actually begun to provide surpluses.

Under The Chimp, ND now now stands at 8.35 trillion, on a quick race to 9 trillion. That's a lot of bananas. At the rate The Chimp is going, he will have nearly doubled the debt by the time he knuckle-walks out of the W.H.

The rest of your comments are unsupported by any data; you have used no data to refute what I posted. Most of your post was unsubstantiated drool, not much different from what I above pointed out in trgard to the National Debt.

You just continue to demonstrate my point about typical Republican voters just not getting it when it comes to which side of the bread that the butter is on.

SoJM, go forward in your amusement; you're beginning to look like your leader. Want a Banana??????

As a college student, I was... (Below threshold)

As a college student, I was part of a team that examined the vote in Chicago when John Fitzgerald Kennedy was elected President. Nearly 20% of the voters were voting from cemetaries.

Those who commit heinous crimes on a regular basis are those most prone to suspect others of committing the same sins, without foundation.

In other words, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and trust me - no Democrat should ever pick up even a pebble!

ZelsdoofusW... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Zelsdoofus

With a name like that, you are about 75 years too late for your heyday; goosestepping is passe.
;

To quote from Blazing Saddles: "You Teutonic tw_t!!!!!

Gayle MillerWhile ... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Gayle Miller

While there appear to have been irregularities w/ the Chicago vote in 1960 ( (Daly was a notorious political boss), I doubt that you could support your claim of a 20% "cemetery vote" if your life depended on it: at least not with documentation from a credible source.

Mak44You're hyster... (Below threshold)
tblubrd:

Mak44

You're hysterically funny - I doubt that you could support your claim of a 20% "cemetery vote" if your life depended on it: at least not with documentation from a credible source.

So now you want someone to be more factual than anything you've cracked about?
How about answering your own claims?

For example, while the US macro-economy appears to be robust, the reality is that the wage & purchasing power of most American workers has been completely static or declined since 2001.

While wealth abounds in the ranks of the top 10%, the reality for the Middle Class is much dimmer.

We're all waiting with baited breath - go ask one of the other Kos kids - maybe they know.

mak4.4: you should just mak... (Below threshold)
tim:

mak4.4: you should just make the point, assuming there is one to be made. the lies, dam lies and statistics you reference are moot in the face of our real world challenges. you may live in a vacuum, but from where i'm standing, your cavalier 90's leader sacrificed this country for his place in history; so geeks like you can cite the era as a time of splendor. really, why do you think sandi burglar was stealing doc's from the nat. archive during the 911 hrgs?

Tim, mk44 just conv... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Tim,
mk44 just conveniently ignore some inconvenient facts:

(1) Clinton inherited a growing economy and the peace dividends of Reagan and Bush ending the cold war and gulf war. He almost squanderd it away early with Hillary care. Fortunately the 1994 Republican took over the house saved the US economy. Remember how Clinton was brought kicking and screaming into signing the balanced budget amendment and the welfare reform bill.

(2) Clinton basically cut the defense budgets and hurt our military readiness. Sandy Burger is an example of how serious Clinton was about national security and terrorism.

(3) Bush inherited an inflated economy in recession (remember Clinton inflated the GDP by > 20% to fool the stock market in 1999). Then 9/11 and the war against terrorism. So by any objective standard, Bush has done a great job on the economy. For a comparison, Europe and Canada hasn't grown much economically despite spending next to nothing about defense.

I am surprised that the people who always complained about the right wing "simple-minded" can be that simple-minded themselves.

In the aftermath of Hurrica... (Below threshold)
Cynthia:

In the aftermath of Hurricane Kantrina, we saw the homeless.

And we all saw the lines of people that showed up to vote in Ohio and could not. We saw it with our own eyes. We saw with our own eyes the 50,000 people who are on record of coming forward with voting complaints. and there were thousands more behind them. We saw with our own eyes the hearing in the basement of Congress because of the hate that spews from the right at anybody with a different opionion. And that's the tip of the iceberg.

God is indeed watching and we are going to do everything decent and honorable and loyal to our country so that we can to ensure that yours and my communities experience a fair and free election.

I have yet to hear the argument why we should not ensure our vote counts. What's the harm in making sure your vote is counted?

50,000 people in Ohio are o... (Below threshold)
Lee:

50,000 people in Ohio are on record with voting complaints? That's incredible. It looks like Republicans did indeed steal the election - glad all of this is coming back to haunt them. Wow.

I have yet to hear... (Below threshold)
I have yet to hear the argument why we should not ensure our vote counts. What's the harm in making sure your vote is counted?

Please, do point to where someone said that.

I want everyone who wants to vote to vote and to do so exactly according to their preferences. But they have to follow the rules, to insure they vote only once. Every nation with elections has such rules. America's rules are among the loosest on the planet in that regard.

hey lee 'ning left: you're ... (Below threshold)
tim:

hey lee 'ning left: you're so right! wow! what a pioneer you are for the movement! god bless! with the ability to come up with propaganda like 50k disenfranchised/losers; you'd think you could come up with some plausible social and/or political and/or defense/war on terror/anti immigration/social security reform//////ideas!! wow, there's an idea! you can say us neo cons stole that from you too!

tim - huh? I was quoting Cy... (Below threshold)
Lee:

tim - huh? I was quoting Cynthia, who's comment appears above mine.

Hey mak44,Well, ju... (Below threshold)
tblubrd:

Hey mak44,

Well, just as I suspected, you came up empty with facts to support your basic contention that the sky is falling and the economy is going south.

How about this "factoid" - from the Patriot Post:

Liberals constantly bang on their highchairs complaining about "tax cuts for the rich" and "windfall profits" by oil companies in an effort (somewhat successful to date) to convince Americans that the economy is not good at all. Yet stubborn facts tell a different tale. "Tax cuts for the rich" have yielded quite a "windfall" themselves in the last four years for the U.S. Treasury. April's tax receipts were up 13.5 percent from the previous year, with the majority of that coming from investment taxes that are paid by the wealthy. Indeed, the "rich" (that ten percent of the population making at least $251,400 a year) will pay over 56 percent of all federal taxes this year, much of which do-gooder politicians redistribute to others, impeding greater economic progress. However, the only news the Leftmedia wants you to hear is that despite the heavy tax burden, the rich are getting richer. The problem for them is that the poor are getting richer too."

Hmmmm, maybe things are only bad in your neck of the woods mak?

Someone oughtta tell JR. th... (Below threshold)

Someone oughtta tell JR. that we're just paying back the Kennedys for the election they (and the mob) stole in 1960.

This article is an attack o... (Below threshold)
jdavenport:

This article is an attack on Blackwell. The Bush bashing is just a bonus.

Sure LeeMak Sure...whatever... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Sure LeeMak Sure...whatever you say.

TurdburdYou droole... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Turdburd

You drooled: " Well, just as I suspected, you came up empty with facts to support your basic contention that the sky is falling and the economy is going south."

According to the Economic Policy Institute, April 20, 2006: "Today's CPI report allows us to examine the progress of wage growth four years out from the recession that began in March of 2001. Since then, real hourly wages have gone up by 1% in total, an annual rate of 0.2%. Real weekly wages, which reflect the diminished hours of work over much of this period, were flat, down 0.2% over the four-year period.

Note that productivity grew 16% over this period at an annual rate of 4.1% (2001q1-2004q4, the most recent available data), revealing a historically large gap between real wage growth and the productivity of our workforce." This but one of many results from a Google search.

Anyone who pays even casual attention to reports will have heard on countless occasions about the stagnation &/or recesion of purchasing power for the average American worker in the past 5 years, not to mention the substandard wages for all the "new" jobs created under The Chimp.

As to the drivel that you quoted from Patriot Post, that is just more of Laugher Curve Moronics which you Repubs continue to try to resurrect nothwithstanding the fact that Reagan's architect of this economic lunacy, David Stockman, recanted this bilge after the fact, years ago.

If the tax cuts really generated so much revenue, why has the national debt quadrupled in the 12 years of Reagon/Bush & then verged on doubling again in the 5 1/2 years of The Chimp? I guess from your skewed Laugher Moronics, the National debt would be many times greater than it is were it not for all the economic welfare given to the top 10% by Republicans.

BTW: the "900 trillion" was a typo & should have been 9 trillion.


In all fairness, if there's... (Below threshold)
The Warden:

In all fairness, if there's anyone who understands vote fraud, it's the Kennedy family. ;-)

so sorry, lee! i was on a ... (Below threshold)
tim:

so sorry, lee! i was on a roll and working, etc. forgive me.

Cynthia, hun. "in the afte... (Below threshold)
tim:

Cynthia, hun. "in the aftermath of hurricane Kantrina..."? just stop, sweetie. nobody wants to pick on you but, you make it so inviting!

god is watching: so shape up - liberals embrace god no more than they embrace secure borders, national security and logic.

While some of Kennedy's ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

While some of Kennedy's arguments are spurious, the fact remains Gore won the popular vote in 2000. The Electoral College is anachronistic at best and anti-democratic at worst. In 2004, many votes were not counted- mainly for technical reasons related to the technology in poor (democratic leaning) districts.

Gore winning the popular vote is as meaningful as saying the Yankees outscored the Pirates in the 1960 World Series overall. Seeing as how the candidates aren't STRIVING to win the national popular vote, it's immaterial.

As for votes not being counted primarily in Democratic counties --- I imagine proof will be forthcoming.

Only in the US, where Republicans can turn out pluralities of voters due to non-participation of nearly 50% or more of the electorate, can they obtian victories when most of their voters are part of the Middle Class.

They won in 2004 with the majority of the country voting.

This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family. Instead, the Republican candidates are able to push hot-button issues w/ strong emotional pull & thus fool their typical voter into voting contrary to his economic issues.

Ah, the Democratic mantra in its most basic form:

Republican voters are too stupid to know better.

Always a winning formula for elections.

For example, while the US macro-economy appears to be robust, the reality is that the wage & purchasing power of most American workers has been completely static or declined since 2001.

Any proof of this would be lovely.

Sorry, but no matter how you stand Reason on it's head, in December of 2000, The Chimp was appoiunted president by SCOTUS, and then barely, w/ a 5-4 split.

The Court stopped the recount in FL. That is tantamount to appointment, not a procees in democracy called "counting the vote."

Stopping a recount in 4 counties, rather than in an entire state. C'est la vie.

Like it or not, Katherine Harris ALONE had the power to certify the election and did so.

Just because the FL Supreme Court, laden with Dems, wished to re-write electoral law after the fact for Florida doesn't make Bush illegitimate.

Kennedy is right, it's an amazing assembly of facts that shows precisely how badly the Republicans have screwed this nation out of a fair election.

Except he has been thoroughly disproven, repeatedly, for years.

Time for a hint: Vote totals are more accurate than skewed exit polls.

Every day I meet people who surprise me with the anger they express towards Republicans and Bush.

I'll stick my neck out and predict we won't see a Republican president for 20 years once Bush leaves office, and it's a good bet that the Democrat-led Congress which takes over after this November election will have turned things around before 2008.

It will be a pleasure to hear the little piggies squeal in horror.

Care to place money on this?

& then the "democratic" solution after the 7-2 vote would have been to order a statewide recount, which was Gore's original misstake in asking for only 3 counties.

BUT

The activist conservatives, in the true "originalist's" spirit decided to take the election out of the hands of the voter and appoint a Chimp as the Originlist Founding Fathers might have preferred in any event w/ their original Constitutional design.

Let's take the vote away from women & non-property owners as originally intended and let the state legislative bodies choose the president as was done in the old-fashioned way. Then we could really boast about "Americaqn Democracy" to the rest of the world.

Sadly, there is a explicitly stated period of time for challenges. If Gore decided to wait until the very end to ask for a statewide recount (which, mind you, Bush would've won anyway) --- that's his problem.

The FL Supreme Court tried to re-write election law after the fact. Tough shit.

And, while your wage status may have improved since 2001, the vast majority of your peers have seen their purchasing power decline or remain stagnant at best.

Again, evidence to back that up.

Please.

In addition, the vast majority of jobs created under the Chimp's economy are for wages substantially lower than prior lost-job compensation.

And you can prove THIS too, right?

Or are you just lying?

When Carter left office in 1981, the National debt was a little over 1 trillion. When Reagan/Bush left office in '93, the debt stood at 4.4 trillion, a 400% jump over all the previously accumulated debt.

Control of the House, who controls the spending, during that entire time? Democrats.

When Clinton left in '01 it was about 5.75 trillion, and, unlike Reagan?Bush, the Clinton budget had actually begun to provide surpluses.

Surpluses based on absurd assumptions of non-stop economic growth that --- to be generous --- are impossible.

Oh, and who was in charge of the House for almost all of Clinton's reign? Republicans.

In the aftermath of Hurricane Kantrina, we saw the homeless.

And we all saw the lines of people that showed up to vote in Ohio and could not. We saw it with our own eyes. We saw with our own eyes the 50,000 people who are on record of coming forward with voting complaints. and there were thousands more behind them. We saw with our own eyes the hearing in the basement of Congress because of the hate that spews from the right at anybody with a different opionion. And that's the tip of the iceberg.

God is indeed watching and we are going to do everything decent and honorable and loyal to our country so that we can to ensure that yours and my communities experience a fair and free election.

I have yet to hear the argument why we should not ensure our vote counts. What's the harm in making sure your vote is counted?

Yes, it's the right who is discussing assassinating people. Happens all of the time.

The only, you know, ACTUALLY PROVEN cases of voter fraud involved Dems.

And the 50,000 number? Prove that, too. I've noticed the left loves tossing out numbers at random.

So, feel free to prove any of your allegations. I know I heard the same thing in 2000 about blacks who were blocked from voting in FL.

You know how many blacks had a complaint of ANY legitimacy?

One.

According to the Economic Policy Institute, April 20, 2006: "Today's CPI report allows us to examine the progress of wage growth four years out from the recession that began in March of 2001. Since then, real hourly wages have gone up by 1% in total, an annual rate of 0.2%. Real weekly wages, which reflect the diminished hours of work over much of this period, were flat, down 0.2% over the four-year period.

EPI? BWA HA HA HA!

A "progressive" policy institute MIGHT have a bit of an axe to grind.

Hell, they champion increasing the minimum wage as a good idea, showing that they are clueless on basic economics (how many people actually get paid minimum wage in this country? 3% of workers).

If the tax cuts really generated so much revenue, why has the national debt quadrupled in the 12 years of Reagon/Bush & then verged on doubling again in the 5 1/2 years of The Chimp? I guess from your skewed Laugher Moronics, the National debt would be many times greater than it is were it not for all the economic welfare given to the top 10% by Republicans.

Out-of-control social spending. Really, not a hard answer. Bush's refusal to curb it belies the claims that he's "far right" on much of anything.
-=Mike

Cynthia way back^W... (Below threshold)
virgo..:

Cynthia way back^

Were not worried about votes being counted once, its the lefts attempt to make up votes and let dead votes count that is very offensive.

are there alternative expla... (Below threshold)
Kevin Baas:

are there alternative explanations to your rather speculative and ad hominem theory that democrats can't accept that they lost the election?

"This is because the typica... (Below threshold)
Lugnut:

"This is because the typical GOP voter earning less than $100K/year is completely ignorant of the economic issues confronting him/her & his/her family."

. . . an exquisitely perfect example of snoot-in-the-air liberal elitist spew.

are there alternative ex... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

are there alternative explanations to your rather speculative and ad hominem theory that democrats can't accept that they lost the election?

No.
-=Mike

MikeSC, try thinking. Ther... (Below threshold)
Kevin Baas:

MikeSC, try thinking. There's a principle called Occam's Razor: All things being equal, the simplest explanation is most likely correct. Also, try examining the facts, instead of ignoring them or brushing them off with some irrational, childish, and contemptuous comments like that. This isn't about people or candidates. it's about an election system, OUR election system, which affects everyone. do you want to live in a dictatorship? do you really want that to happen? is ignorance worth it? because irrationallity like that is the quickest path to it. Seriously, you think this is funny? Grow up.

Kevin - "do you want to liv... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Kevin - "do you want to live in a dictatorship? do you really want that to happen?" What kind of fool are you?

I asked you first.... (Below threshold)
Kevin Baas:

I asked you first.

Who will be the first one t... (Below threshold)
Kevin Baas:

Who will be the first one two type in two words in google and press search?




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