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Fort Lewis Officer Says He Will Refuse to Go to Iraq

Updated

Lieutentant Ehren Watada has said he will refuse to go to Iraq when his Stryker Brigade is deployed.

As thousands of Fort Lewis Army troops prepare to head back to Iraq, one of their officers is making a stand.


A lieutenant says he is going to refuse to go, saying it's an unjust war. Anti-war groups are rallying to his defense.

Lt. Ehren Watada of the Stryker Brigade writes, "I refuse to be silent any longer. I refuse to watch families torn apart, while the President tells us to 'stay the course.' I refuse to be party to an illegal and immoral war against people who did nothing to deserve our aggression.

"I wanted to be there for my fellow troops. But the best way was not to help drop artillery and cause more death and destruction. It is to help oppose this war and end it so that all soldiers can come home." - signed LT.

His name had been kept a secret until now, but Lt. Watada's father confirms that his son is taking this bold step and told the Honolulu Advertiser newspaper that he's proud of his son.

Fort Lewis says since the lieutenant hasn't done anything official yet, there's no violation. But should he decide to go ahead with this, he could be charged with 'desertion' or more likely with 'missing the movement' of his unit.

It's happened before with a sergeant who refused to go. Sgt. Kevin Benderman was sentenced to 15 months for refusing to go to Iraq.

Lt. Watada asked for reassignment and tried resigning his commission, but the Army refused. His attorney tells us from Hawaii that Watada is not against all wars, just this one.

This is more than just one man refusing to deploy. It's a coordinated effort by the anti-war left to undermine our troops, our war effort, and President Bush, and Lt. Watada is its pawn. Take a look at this website. It's the public relations effort that will make sure Lt. Watada gets as much press coverage as possible:

Tomorrow, Wednesday, June 7th U.S. Army First Lieutenant Ehren Watada will become the first commissioned officer to refuse deployment to the unlawful Iraq war and occupation. He will announce his intention to disobey the illegal order to deploy to Iraq in coordinated press conferences in Tacoma, Washington and Honolulu, Hawaii.

People are encouraged to sign a petition that says the war in Iraq was preemptive, deceptive, and illegal. Read the petition and note how the deaths in Haditha, which are still being investigated, are referenced:

Thank you Lt. Ehren Watada for standing up for international, US and military law by refusing to deploy to Iraq in support of the ongoing illegal war and occupation.


From the preemptive invasion based on deception, to the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians and nearly 2,500 U.S. troops, to the infamous Abu Ghraib torture cells and the recent Haditha massacre, no more evidence is required of how very wrong this war is. In light of these facts, we appreciate your decision to now follow your conscience.

We agree with you Lt. Watada, it is past time for US forces to leave Iraq. We salute your true leadership in these dark times, and believe that we can all learn something from your courage.

Here are the organizations behind this "campaign." Lt. Watada is facing prison time, and to the left, he is simply a means to an end.

Leaning Straight Up outlines the consequences that await Lt. Watada for refusing to deploy. Then again, if Rep. Murtha could pull a few strings...

Jay at Stop the ACLU picked up on this story as well and says this:

I'm sure the left will prop this guy up as a shining example to his fellow soldiers. Right? It was bravery not cowardice, right??

Update: The Army Times covered Lt. Watada's intentions. Here's part:

Robert Arakaki, the 83-year-old president of the 100th Infantry Battalion Veterans group, who saw combat in Italy in 1945, yesterday said Watada "owes the country a lot."


There "should be some kind of good explanation" for why Watada wants out, he said, and Arakaki takes issue with claims of an immoral and illegal war.

"Who determines what is legal or illegal? Him or our government? Not him," Arakaki said.

Retired Navy Cmdr. Jack Miller, past president of the Hawaii chapter of the Military Officers Association of America, said "there's always been the problem of following orders. This time is no different."

"Being a Vietnam veteran, we went through this," said Miller, 72. "The rest of the load had to be shared by those willing to follow orders and serve their country."

Dependable, loyal officers are needed, and "if one doesn't fit that qualification, a bad apple will contaminate the barrel. He (Watada) should be punished in some way," Miller said. "You don't want someone over there in Iraq who's not going to willingly follow orders. That's dangerous."

Update II: Nathan Goulding of NRO's Media Blog reports on Lt. Watada's father's leftist views of President Bush.

I decided to find out if Lt. Watada or his father have had any associations with anti-war groups or anti-war movements. After a short time on Google, this turned up--a posting on a forum at the University of Hawaii:
During the past year, [Bob Watada] confided to me his opposition to the War in Iraq.


He likened Bush Two to be equal to Adolf Hitler.

Although I don't have any strong feelings about the subject, I generally side with the national political establishment.

In recent years, I've been mildly criticizing the truth about how Europe began conquering the Planet starting in the 15th Century.

Of course, America's empire is just an extension of Europe's exploits.

When I was just out of high school, Robert taught me frosh college economics at Kapiolani Community College on Pensacola Street.

This appears to have been posted by someone named Mike G. H. Chun. Sadly, it seems you can't trust anyone these days. If Mr. Watada's Bush/Hitler sentiments are accurate, this could help illuminate why he's so proud of his son for opposing the war.

Update III: Michelle Malkin has learned that the proprietor of Lt. Watada's website is none other than Cindy Sheehan supporter Jeff Paterson of Not in our Name:

Domain ID:D123530763-LROR

Domain Name:THANKYOULT.ORG
Created On:31-May-2006 18:02:32 UTC
Last Updated On:31-May-2006 18:30:39 UTC
Expiration Date:31-May-2007 18:02:32 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Nettuner Corp. dba Webmasters.com (R1310-LROR)
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:WM06053189dd
Registrant Name:Jeff Paterson
Registrant Organization:Not in Our Name

Michelle reminds us that "Paterson is 'a former Kane'ohe Bay Marine who refused to board a transport in 1990 heading to the Gulf War and now works as an anti-war activist with the organization Not In Our Name.'"

Update IV: Dan Riehl has more on the politics of Bob Watada, Lt. Watada's father.

I am a RPCV 1964 Peru. Last year I visited Peru twice and wherever I went, friends, relatives, and people of all walks of life expressed disgust with "Bushy" and it was impossible to disagree. Their perception of the USA is like a "Rambo". "Have gun, am right." Whatever good the Peace Corps did forty years ago in developing good will has now been destroyed. We eliminated the myth that we were CIA henchmen out to get the communistas. We are now obsessed with a "terrorist" behind every tree, as we were obsessed with a "communist" around every corner forty-five years ago. We need to start somewhere to make a change. Bob Watada

TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Fort Lewis Officer Says He Will Refuse to Go to Iraq:

» The Stupid Shall Be Punished linked with How Not To Refuse Unlawful Orders

» The Thunder Run linked with Web Reconnaissance for 06/07/2006

» The Sandbox linked with Officer Refuses Deployment

» Michelle Malkin linked with A DESERTER, NOT A "DISSENTER"

» Confederate Yankee linked with Other Than Honorable

» bRight & Early linked with Ehren Watada Roundup

» Blue Crab Boulevard linked with Dishonor

» Small Town Veteran linked with Another Day, Another Coward

» Cranial Cavity linked with Hey Look, It’s a Sgt Benderman Clone

» In Search Of Utopia linked with Wingnut Philosophy 101

» The Inside of My Brain linked with Opinion: Even A Soldier Has A Right To Say No

Comments (121)

They had a better way of de... (Below threshold)

They had a better way of dealing with this sort of thing during WWII.

It was called a "firing squad."


Wonder if he'll refuse to g... (Below threshold)
The Listkeeper:

Wonder if he'll refuse to go to Leavenworth, too?

The Lt. is a poor excuse fo... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

The Lt. is a poor excuse for a man and if his father agrees with him we can see why. Why would anyone with a brain join the military (it is all volunteer you know) then refuse to fight. Did he think he could make a career of kissin some Generals a**? I guess i was right on that one, if he's a liberal they spend their lives kissing a** because they're too cowardly to do anything else.

Hmmm.Hhhheeeelllll... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

Hhhheeeellllloooooooo Leavenworth.

Perhaps someone here can ta... (Below threshold)
DDT:

Perhaps someone here can take Lt. Watada's place then?

I would, but I'm still kind... (Below threshold)
The Listkeeper:

I would, but I'm still kinda crippled from the LAST time I served in the military...

DDT,What exactly d... (Below threshold)
Cybrludite:

DDT,

What exactly does our status WRT wether or not we're currently in uniform have to do with Lt. Watada's failure to live up to his oaths and contractual obligations?

Well I live here in HI & th... (Below threshold)
cate s.:

Well I live here in HI & this was all over the news over here. One guy on the radio said they should hold their press conference on Magic Island near the sewer plant. I can't understand why he joined in 2003 & never think he would be sent to Iraq. Why all of the sudden when he got deployment orders this suddenly became an "illegal wars". Well, my husband is currently in the sandbox and I would prefer if this worthless officer would keep his behind out of Iraq because he could put my husband (who is superior in rank to him) in danger if he refuses to follow his orders. I hope that they have some nice rocks for him bang in Leavenworth. I served in the first Gulf War and it absolutely makes me sick to see Col. Wright doing what she does today. She wasn't much of a Major when I served under her as a 2nd Lt. and I remember one of the other Majors saying that she only got to where she was because of her sex and she was also a woman.
So, the fun and games are on in Honolulu tomorrow. I know that the wackos out here will be talking about how brave he is and what a hero he really is. However, I believe he's a bum.

Someone demonstrates the co... (Below threshold)
Drew E:

Someone demonstrates the courage of his convictions even though he faces jail. He is supported by the anti-war community. I am trying to figure out what is wrong with this.
Why is it that when the "left" simply supports someone that someone is being "used"
Was Rush being "used" when he received support from the "pro subsciption abuse crowd"

You still don't get it. A clear majority of our nation does not believe in a failed Iraq policy.
It does not take courage to follow blindly.
It does, unfortunatly take courage not to.

As for the poster writing about "oaths", Bush took an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Last question "What personal conviction are you willing to go to jail for as a resukt of your non-violent opposition?


Drew E,Kindly poin... (Below threshold)
Cybrludite:

Drew E,

Kindly point out, chapter and verse just where Bush hasn't upheld the Constitution.

"I refuse to be party to an... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

"I refuse to be party to an illegal and immoral war against people who did nothing to deserve our aggression."

Uh, how is the war "illegal" (Congress authorized it)? The "people" it's against is Saddam and his party, and they did deserve it. Now we're helping Iraq stabilize amid attacks from "insurgents," and yes, they deserve our aggression, too.

Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Let me see now. I quess if ... (Below threshold)
TomFeral:

Let me see now. I quess if this guy had joined the Fire Department, he would be fine sitting around the Fire Station, unless and until he was ordered to fight a fire. There is no draft and he could have joined the Air Force or Navy. Shoot him!

You are missing the point.<... (Below threshold)
onceamarine:

You are missing the point.
We as a nation can not allow this to occur!
If you let the military CHOOSE which wars to fight then you have NO military.
It is the soldiers duty to refuse an unlawful order (such as shooting one of his troops) but to refuse to go into combat is a act of cowardice.
And in fact he could be charged with disersation in the face of the enemy. And he should be punished to the utmost of the UCMJ because if you allow him to get away with this then what is to stop others from saying "I'm not going" just because they are either scared or they dont want to leave there family.

And yes if they would have me back I would return in a hart beat. You see I have been there before and would be happy to return.

Kim reported: "This is m... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Kim reported: "This is more than just one man refusing to deploy. It's a coordinated effort by the anti-war left to undermine our troops, our war effort, and President Bush, and Lt. Watada is its pawn" but doesn't back it up with any factual information to support her claim. Kim has not shown that Lt. Watada's choice to not go was "coordinated" in any fashion whatsoever.

Is her statement part of a coordinated effort by the pro-war pro-Bush contingency to discredit this man?

Does anyone have any supporting evidence that backs up what Kim has claimed, or is she lying?

I think it's pretty damn ob... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

I think it's pretty damn obvious he joined merely to make a political statement. Sorry, but if you join the military while hostilities are taking place and you rjob description includes the carrying of an automatic weapon and you decide to suddenly "protest government actions" you are either an idiot or a grand-stander.

If the Lt had gone to Iraq an been ordered to commit an illegal act and refused I'd be behind all the way.

He's just showboating.

And yes, I have been in the military...and to Iraq...twice.

So he thinks participating ... (Below threshold)
Tim:

So he thinks participating in an illegal war is worse than participating on the receiving end of the gang sodomizing he's headed for in prison. Interesting choice.

1st off, I do not WANT him ... (Below threshold)

1st off, I do not WANT him leading our boys in Iraq. He is a piece of shit. Our boys deserve better.

2nd, I really can NOT put into words what his actions will do to his soldiers, and the absolute undermining of his NCO-s.

lastly, I look forward to him being discarded like a dirty condom once he has served his purpose.

Why would anyone with a ... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

Why would anyone with a brain join the military (it is all volunteer you know) then refuse to fight.

I am a Desert Storm veteran. As we were preparing to deploy, I was amazed at the number of young soldiers who said, "I didn't join the Army to fight in a war. I joined to get money for college." Clearly, they somehow didn't understand what it is that armies do. AT the time, I blamed it on the fact that we had gone many years without a real shootin' war, so many of them were too young to have heard about combat. Some people blamed recruiters for not telling them that they could fight a war some day.

In this case, I think the lieutenant ws trying to take advantage of an education paid for by the government. He knew his commitment when he took the Army's money for school and now, he's reneging. He knows that there are anti-war groups that will back him. He's probably been anti-war all along, but he was hoping to never be deployed. When that failed, he had no choice in his mind but to take the action he did.

CybrluditeY... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Cybrludite

You posted: "Kindly point out, chapter and verse just where Bush hasn't upheld the Constitution."

In John Dean's Worse Than Watergate, Dean writes:

"The evidence is overwhelming that George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney have engaged in deceit and deception over going to war in Iraq. This is an impeachable offense."

There is voluminous information currently available that suggests exactly what John Dean said. If the Republicans cared one whit about this country & it's Constitution that they are sworn to uohold, they would currently be holding investigations to determine whether such an offense was committed.

As Dean says, "If there's anything that really is the bottom line, it's taking the nation to war in a time -- when they might not have had to go to war and people dying. That is worse than Watergate. No one died for Nixon's so-called Watergate abuses. "

Cybrludite,there currently is no "chapter & verse" beyond this because the Congressional Republicans will never permit investigations to make this determination. As it stands now, there will never be "chapter and verse" just as there would never have been "chapter and verse" in Watergate were the Republicans in control of Congress at that time.

Someone asked what part of ... (Below threshold)
Drew E.:

Someone asked what part of the Constitution
Bush violated? The same part that tells the LT. he shouldn't go to IRAQ.. Article six ...you see we are all bound by things our government has signed like say The Geneva Convention ... as we were not attacked by Iraq..nor was Iraq a direct threat to invade the U.S. our preemtive invasion was and remains illegal under the Geneva convention..which we ah signed...

Call the man what he is. Ch... (Below threshold)
Steve N.:

Call the man what he is. Chickenshit.

I'm just glad this disgraceful piece of crap won't be anywhere near the heroic warriors in Iraq.

Let him rot in Leavenworth. Maybe he'll get the shit kicked out of him on a daily basis.

Tell your lies e... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:


Tell your lies elsewear moron.

"You still don't get it. A clear majority of our nation does not believe in a failed Iraq policy."

To bad for you the clear Majority that really counts , the patriotic voting AMERICANS in this Country voted for George W Bush and many being registered Democrats like myself. Your lies and continued support for the perpetual fraud aka what's left of the democrat party shows your infantile bitterness and inability to accept defeat. You are wrong , you are a sore loser and the democrats are complete frauds and horse faced liars. They are in the complete minority and losing ground here in Ca. Over 80% of felons vote democrat, are you in that category? I can only wonder what percentage of those that speak absolutely no English vote democrat.

Is this officer advocating ... (Below threshold)
Jay C.:

Is this officer advocating a "theocracy"?

This officer claims that the Iraq War is not a just war. Many liberals believe that Bush is pushing for a "theocracy." Yet is it not the liberals actually invoking theological arguments to support their cause?

It's my understanding that the Just War Doctrine in the West has strong developmental roots in Christian theology. Thus, it seems ironic to me that those who are advancing the "no just war" argument are aligned with, and often are the same as, those who consistently attack Bush's evangelicalism.

mak4.4, drew, lee, rob: lad... (Below threshold)
tim:

mak4.4, drew, lee, rob: ladies, blame congress, not bush - he did not cast the votes for the members of our legislative branch, who approved these actions.

blanket assertions: 'majority of americans believe this is a failed policy' are utterly void of substance. if your interested in polls; look at the national elections - the results do not support your positions.

Petulant little whiner Dre... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Petulant little whiner Drew E.

"as we were not attacked by Iraq."

You are clearly an idiot and an uninformed one at that. What do you call our planes being constantly shot at patrolling the no fly zone? You cry babies have no clue and shit for memories. It's no wonder Nagin couldn't function and implement the emergency evacuation plan. Are all your brains complete mush from drugs or are you just really that stupid? You turd brains can't even remember those 17 resolutions like that Bimbo Balling Boxer. How about BJ Clintons Iraq Liberation Act , or was that some sort of script he was writing for Hollywood and all the Dims declaring that Sadam was a treat and that he had WMD's and used them in the past and he will use them again.

Like the words of the Queen of Hypocracy Bugsy Pelosi: "HE MUST BE STOPPED ,HE MUST BE STOPPED, WE MUST STOP HIM". Not to worry deary, the real adults and Americans took care of what you frauds could never have dreamed of doing, Protecting this Country.All the Democrats could do was screamed like terrified cowards. While the courageous soldiers through the leadership of "Republican" President George W Bush when in after repeated stalling and obstruction from the criminals and cowards in the CORRUPT UN and CORRUPT DEMOCRAT PARTY and went after those who have done us harm in the past , now and who wish to do us harm in the future.

All you losers in the democrat party care about is winning your dumbasses a little more power and a few more seats in the House or the Senate and hopefully a Majority so you can begin to rewrite History and destroy and much evidence and proof of the fact they are nothing more than Common Criminals in a suit. Your still trying to spit shine that POS Clinton and cover up his and his partners crimes.

Release the entire Barrett Report you diversionary wankers!

In other words, Cyberluddit... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

In other words, Cyberluddite, mak44 has nothing to back up his assertion of Constitutional violations by the President.

Like in every single one of his previous posts, he just issued forth a great deal of noise and smoke (including appeals to extremely dubious authority) and in the end said absolutely nothing.

Let's just thank God mak44's on the other side. With the mass of idiots we have in Congress, mak44's added idiocy could have been the straw that broke the GOP's back.

Rube in LAY... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Rube in LA

You barfed...er, blogged: "You still don't get it. A clear majority of our nation does not believe in a failed Iraq policy."

I imagine the same could have been said about a "clear majority" of Germans during the 1930's & '40's. As a matter of fact, I spoke w/ a German family from that era in Stutgart in 1965 and a couple of them observed, even at that point in time, that during the Hitler years the average person didn't have to be afraid to "walk the streets at night."

Of course, as you pointed out above, I am just a serial murderer with 45 life sentence convictions who got off on a Miranda technicality not to mention, a registered member of the Communist Party and a distant relative of Fidel Castro's, so what is my point of view worth?

Martin A. Knight </p... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Martin A. Knight

Ah, another reasoned response to one of my posts!!!!!!

Thanx Martin; you just demonstrated that when the tenor of a post is out of sync w/ you illusions, the proper response is to slime the writer.

Hope you're watching, Jay- there's a 2-way street here,

So a then a clear majority ... (Below threshold)
virgo:

So a then a clear majority of americans believe in a successful Iraq policy, boy Your on the ball.

the patriotic voting AME... (Below threshold)
mantis:

the patriotic voting AMERICANS in this Country voted for George W Bush and many being registered Democrats like myself. Your lies and continued support for the perpetual fraud aka what's left of the democrat party shows your infantile bitterness and inability to accept defeat.

Rob, once again, if you were registered Democrat you would at the very least be familiar with the name of the Democratic Party. Go back to calling in to kiss Rush's ass.

Hmmmm.Interesting ... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

Interesting that we get one of these stories just about the time the last such story has died and moved off the radar.

Neat coincidence that.

...

Frankly this guy is either an idiot or his enlistment was just a setup for this situation.

I guess he joined up for th... (Below threshold)
bungaloebill:

I guess he joined up for the travel and the water skiing.
This is a silly post and I'm endin' it right now.

Hmmmm.@ mak44... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ mak44

"The evidence is overwhelming that George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney have engaged in deceit and deception over going to war in Iraq. This is an impeachable offense."

Quoting Dean isn't *proof*. It's just regurgitating someone else's opinion.

Provide *PROOF*.

mantisRu... (Below threshold)
mak44:

mantis

Rube in LA goes much further than that:he's a Rush gobbler. Some people have brown noses, Rube in LA has a brown face & god forbid, don't look at his tongue.

;


; he's a gobbler

Give the kid a break! He ju... (Below threshold)
virgo..:

Give the kid a break! He just wants to get out early to go on all the talk shows ,write a book and become the next media darling...

About the same thing Kerry did!

"so what is my point of vie... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

"so what is my point of view worth"? It isn't worth shit when you continue to spew lies like "clear majority" believe the democrat perpetual fraud. INFORMED AMERICANS DON'T! As proved on Nov. 2 ,2004. and yesterday in Ca-50. Everyday the democrats and their liberal Media show the world what lying failed frauds they are. Democrats incriminate themselves on a regular basis all on their own. It can't be helped it's just what happens when cons and frauds get caught , busted or their line of BS is so old and outdated they expose themselves and look like shameless fools doing it. That's is why democrats are in the Minority and are digging themselves deeper and deeper.

YOU CANNOT TELL THE FRICKEN TRUTH!!!

YOU WILL NEVER BE HONEST BECAUSE THAT MEANS YOU WILL HAVE TO "TELL THE TRUTH" ABOUT ALL THE FRAUD, THE LIES "EVERYTHING!".


SELF WORSHIPPING HUMAN WASTE LIKE "FRAUD KERRY" THE CLINTONS , JESSIE JACKSON, SHARPTON , WILLIAM JEFFERSON , MCKINNEY, BOXER, PELOSI, TED KENNEDY, HARRY REID, DURBIN , FEINGOLD, SCHMUCK SCHUMER AND ALL THE LIKES "WILL NEVER TELL THE TRUTH" EVEN IF THERE IS A BLUE DRESS FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE BLOWHARDS , THEY WILL NOT ADMIT TO WHAT THE CLEAR MAJORITY "KNOW" THAT THEY ARE. LYING FRAUDS.

THE LATEST EXCUSE FOR DEMOCRAT STUPIDITY IS CLAIMING THEY "MISSPOKE". LIKE THE DAY THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO BE HONEST AND TRANSPARENT WHEN THEY MADE THAT GROUP FOOLS OF THEMSELVES, A SAD AND FAILED ATTEMPT AT WHAT THEY LIKE TO CALL "RE-INVENTING THEMSELVES". LYING FRAUDS PURE AND SIMPLE. SUPPORT THEM AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

Hello mak44,I wish... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Hello mak44,

I wish there was something to reason with in your post. But there was none. Reason (noun or verb) was as far away from your post as it could possibly be.

You made me waste thirteen seconds of my life (that I will never get back) and untold millijoules of energy I used in moving my eyeballs, to read your post.

So, as I'm sure you understand, I'm a little angry about that. Guilty as charged.

Mr ed, the talking you k... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Mr ed, the talking you know what

You posted: "Provide *PROOF*."

How convenient; back to square one.

You demand proof and then take satisfaction that there is none as yet because the Congressional Republicans, sworn to uphold the Constitution, have blocked ALL investigations to establish or not, the proof of such a charge.

How circularly conveient: there is no evidence because the Majority Party refuses to look for the evidence.

Conclusion: There is no evidence.

That sort of BS illogic may sell on this sort of blogsite because The Choir refuses to acknowledge that the King has no clothes.

Mak, your cross post to Jay... (Below threshold)

Mak, your cross post to Jay's thread bought me over. Again you cite fairly reasoned rebuttals to your froth as evidence you are in the right???? What about Matin A. Knight's smackdown?

Then you mention a conversation with one German family in Stuttgart 40 years ago (I still have friends there after a 2-year stint, and I hear much more interesting stories than yours) that puzzles me. I am not sure what point you are making, but the Jewish folks sure weren't safe to walk the streets day or night. And if a majority of Germans were wrong to support Hitler, perhaps the "majority" of anti-war sentiment here could be wrong too. Or are you saying that a majority of folks support the war and are like the Germans of that era? Maybe the Hitler zombie ate so much of your brain that you are more incoherent than usual?

mak44:So you are a... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

mak44:

So you are admitting there is no evidence, yet you KNOW that the Administration has not upheld the Constitution. So basically, fake but accurate, eh?

D-Hoggs ... (Below threshold)
mak44:

D-Hoggs

There sure as hell is tons evidence, beginning w/ the Downing Street Memos, the complete failure to find the aleged WMD's, the false uranium allegations, the fraudulent attempt to link Saddam w/ 9/11 etc.

Of course, any smoking guns are merely "moonbat" rantings.

As the Church Ladys says," How connnnnnnnnnnnnnveenient!"

Convoluted delusional think... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Convoluted delusional thinking at best Mak22..

there is no evidence so He's guilty.

Mak44, If you want... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Mak44,

If you want to base your argument on evidence, why don't you wait for ALL the evidence. Not just "evidence" that supports your agenda. Every day documents are being translated showing connections between Saddam and Al-Quaida, showing evidence of WMD being hidden and removed. As far as a "fraudulent" link between Saddam and 9/11, can you show me where Bush and/or his administration tried to link the two? They have linked Saddam and Al-Quaida, and evidence overewhelming backs that link up. In short, yes you are full of moon-bat rantings.

ed ...Try to under... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

ed ...

Try to understand what mak44 considers "logic".

Let's say, I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that I hate X. I also know that I hate child-molesters. Therefore X must be a child-molester. And if the police refuse to arrest X, then they must be colluding with him in his child-molesting activities.

mak44 knows, without a shadow of a doubt, that he hates Bush. He also knows that he hates Presidents that violate the Constitution. Therefore Bush must have violated the Consititution. And if the House refuses to pass articles of impeachment, then they must be colluding with him in his Constitution-violating activities.

In mak44's world, any demand for solid proof, instead of relying on his feelings is conveniently" going back to "square one."

Hmmm... I wonder, if Ehren ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Hmmm... I wonder, if Ehren Watada is the son of Bob Watada, director of the state (Hawaii) Campaign Spending Commission as noted in this article.

This is a non-issue. My co... (Below threshold)

This is a non-issue. My comments here: http://www.anotherblogger.com/2006/06/07/soldier/

D-Hoggs You... (Below threshold)
mak44:

D-Hoggs

You blogged: "If you want to base your argument on evidence, why don't you wait for ALL the evidence"

Hell will freeze over before that ever occurs because your Constitution-loving Congressional Republicans will make sure that there is no Congressional oversight. You and they have rejected totally the Founding Fathers' concept of Checks and Balances.

The way Congressional Republicans behave today is no different from the Reichsatg memebers behaved in 1933.

The gambit here is: there shouldn't be hearings in Congress because the accusations are mere belly-aching and are bereft of evidence; consequently, there is no evidence.

This is what constitutes Republican Reasoning.

BTW the link posted by Aaro... (Below threshold)
Marc:

BTW the link posted by Aaron B. Hockley answeres my question. It contains a photo of the potential deserter and his father Bob Watada.

mak44:You still ha... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

mak44:

You still have yet to provide a shred of evidence, either to your claim that the Constitution is being trampled, or to your claim that investigations into the trampling of the Constitution are being stopped by Republicans. You are intellectually dishonest. It is useless to argue with someone who is so delusional as to argue that, "The way Congressional Republicans behave today is no different from the Reichsatg memebers behaved in 1933." Because you believe a certain conspiracy, and shout it from the rooftops, does not make it so. I believe that you have been dropped on your head several times, but I have no evidence of that, so I will not try to argue it. I will just know that, at the very least, you think like someone who has been dropped on their head several times.

Martin A. Knight </p... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Martin A. Knight

You pathetic fool: just explain your way around the Downing Street Memos.

Explain your way around the wrtings of Richard Clarke & John O'Neil and their charges that this Administration was looking for an excuse to invade Iraq from Day 1 when Bush was appointed to the Presidency.

One thing is clear: you conservatives, or whatever euphimism that you wish to call yourselves by, have no love or respect for the Constitution: it is just a device to manipulate in order to establish st best, an Oligarchy.

There's not a dome's worth of difference between the Congressional Republicans of today and the 1930's elected members of the German Reichstag.

You liberals are the ones t... (Below threshold)
virgo..:

You liberals are the ones trampling all over the constitution with Your judges setting themselves up as God over the rest of us, phooey..

If he is who I believe he i... (Below threshold)
JannyMae:

If he is who I believe he is, based on a google search of his handle, mak44 is a nasty little Irish p*$ck, whom I've attempted to argue with before.

His current delusional rantings, however, show signs that his condition has even further degraded into a near fatal case of BDS.

The Downing Street Memo proves absolutely nothing. Typical of a BDS sufferer, though, he has the capacity to ignore mountains of facts that do not support his opinion, and cling to something, like the DSM, that he can distort into supporting his point of view.

Regardless, you can obviously see that his idea of an, "argument," is to declare that, "overwhelming evidence," exists, without presenting that evidence.

Even if President Bush was determined to go to war with Iraq, it has little significance, as a very strong case can be made that, in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, he was merely following up on a policy that was instituted in 1998, by his predecessor.

The amount of overwhelming evidence that these Bush-haters have a capacity to ignore, is amazing at times.

There sure as hell is tons ... (Below threshold)
JannyMae:

There sure as hell is tons evidence, beginning w/ the Downing Street Memos, (already addressed)

the complete failure to find the aleged (sic) WMD's (this proves what? Oh, nothing. Gotcha!)

the false uranium allegations, (they were not false, as has been proven numerous times here, with factual information)

the fraudulent attempt to link Saddam w/ 9/11 etc.

(this never happened, yet you keep asserting it as fact)

Get some facts, mk44

virgoAppare... (Below threshold)
mak44:

virgo

Apparently, from your drooling, one should conclude that any time a judge rules contrary to your ignorant view of somethig, they are playing "god."

I can imagine that there are several hundred thousands of convicted criminals who would agree w/ you.

Not to mention all the Southern Republicans who had the Courts, aka god, inflict on them the ruling that African-Americans were human beings as well and entitled to the full protection of the Constitution.

The day is not far off when the Roberts' gang of 4, w/ Scumlia providing the intellectual justification, will finally reverse Plessy v Ferguson and get us back to the good ole days when blacks had separate water fountains and knew to only use the back door for entrance.

I knew mak44 prefered the b... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

I knew mak44 prefered the back door. Now we have "evidence"!!

:D... just exp... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

:D

    ... just explain your way around the Downing Street Memos ...

Hashed, rehashed and hashed again. Found so seriously wanting that not a single elected Democrat has touched it with a ten-foot pole for fear of being taken as a certifiable kook.

    Explain your way around the wrtings of Richard Clarke & John O'Neil and their charges that this Administration was looking for an excuse to invade Iraq ...

Still attempting the appeals to dubious (not to mention highly impeachable) authority, mak44?

In other words, are you still saying nothing?

Do you honestly think it will work this time?

JannyMaeYou... (Below threshold)
mak44:

JannyMae

Your Google search did not find me- so whatever you found is just part of your wishful thinking.

Do you suffer from prominent drooping brow syndrome?

You dismiss the Downing Street Memos. And just on what basis is that; because they reveal the strong possibility that Bush/Cheney lied this country into war?

You rely on your specious claim, "the false uranium allegations, (they were not false, as has been proven numerous times here, with factual information)."

Yeah Janny Mae, and the moon is made of green cheese.

You post further: "in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, he was merely following up on a policy that was instituted in 1998, by his predecessor."

This lame claim that Clinton established a policy to invade Iraq is pure BS and you ought to know better, if you ahd a shred of intellectual integrity.

To quote Dan Akroyd, "Janny Mae, you are an ignorant slut.

When the train of human evolutionary rational development left the station JannyMae, you obviously were left behind at your cave, waving your club and grunting in protest. Your so-called arguments reflect that you must be one helluva hirsute club-dragging woman.

Change your user to something more apropos like GruntingMae and while you're at it, practice walking upright.

I should have known that ma... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

I should have known that mak44 was completely ignorant of history ...

Let me see ... of the 20 Senators that filibustered the Civil Rights Acts, 19 were Democrats and only 1 was a Republican, yet somehow Southern Republicans were the barrier to Civil Rights for blacks?

Huh?

PS: Note that mak44 is trying to change the subject because he's getting his head bashed in on the President's "Constitutional violations". So, like a typical Leftist, he throws up the "RACIST!!" Hail Mary.

And, of course, being totally stupid and ignorant, mak44 actually thinks reversing Plessy V Ferguson would bring back segregation.

WTF?

field-negro, Lee, binnster, astigafa ... where are you people?! How can you let mak44 continue to embarass himself like this? Race-baiting is supposed to be second-nature to a Leftist and yet mak44 is so incompetent he's actually messing that up.

Mak44, you are an idiot STF... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf:

Mak44, you are an idiot STFU. Why is it you always change the subject? This Lt. after joining an all volunteer army, decided he did not want to go to a combat zone. The Uniform Code of Military Justice deals with just such matters. No matter what you idiots on the left say, he is subject to that code and 10 year hard labor and a dishonorable discharge is what he deserves and will get. The Army is not a democracy. Mak44, what is wrong with you? Get off the drugs.

Martin A. Knight </p... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Martin A. Knight

There's a good reason why people whio think(?) like you do are often referred to as Troglodytes.

That species once became extinct because their brains were to small to cope with evolutionary change.

You conservatives are forever busy trying to remake the US into Jurassic Park.

Mantis, this isn't the f... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Mantis, this isn't the first time you've made this silly comment.Why do you care.

What is so democratic about the democrat party?

This group of scumbags use words like Democratic , American , and truth in the most disingenuous and calculating way. Al Gore's Book is a perfect example , the furthest from the truth. When Democrats say that the "Majority of Americans" agree with them it make me want to puke especially when they say "they speak for most Americans", BULLSHIT. The last thing democrats are capable of or have any desire of doing is telling us Americans the truth about themselves and the truth period.

Mantis , I'll assume your just as bitter as Mak44 or equally ignorant of facts unless you state otherwise since mak44 seems to have have a thing for you or does he always butt in on everyones personal comments of others.

Fact is when I registered to vote I registered democrat,but that is going to all change becuse of you , that's right. Since I still received a Dem voting Ballot I guess voting for Bush didn't automatically make me a Republican or unregister me as a Democrat. I hate labels and I never once felt like "I was a democrat" nor did I feel any loyalty to them, for what? I only voted for them because my mother did and to get her off my back. I like to consider myself as "AN AMERICAN" and thanks to your persistence of the those two little letters "ic" I'm going to do what I should have done Nov.2, 2004 when I voted for President Bush , Re-register as a Republican and rid myself of the Democrat party once and for all. If I'm going to be labeled, I'd rather be labled as a Republican than a Democrat , that's for damn sure.

Thanks Mantis

mak44:Troglodytes ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

mak44:

Troglodytes were/are not a species, and they are also not extinct. You can't be honest about anything can you.

Rob in LA Ca.:Y... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Rob in LA Ca.:

You are clearly an idiot and an uninformed one at that. What do you call our planes being constantly shot at patrolling the no fly zone?

This is your understanding of why we invaded Iraq in 2003? You speak for the Republican party on this one? (I had a Republican friend come up to me in late 2004 and say, "The liberals are trying to say we invaded Iraq to find WMD. Isn't that stupid?" Yeah. Very stupid.)

You cry babies have no clue and shit for memories.

You're right; my memory is faulty. Help me out. Where did Saddam get the hardware to make the stuff he dropped on the Kurds? Why is Rummy shaking hands with Saddam in that wonderful picture one never sees on the "MSM", the one taken two weeks after the murder of those Kurds, when the Republican Bush I administration increased the amount of aid then being sent to Saddam?

You know, I'm not a Democrat, but when I look at how the Republicans have run this country, and when I look at you and Ann Coulter and other such pethican submoron idiots, I really feel like I could right the DNC a really big check.

astigafa:How could... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

astigafa:

How could Saddam have possibly had stuff to drop on the Kurds if he never had WMD to begin with?

Mak11As You notice... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Mak11

As You notice by Your sur number You are continuing to lose IQ points at an alarming pace!

I named You the Troglydyte about 3 weeks ago and it is becoming apparent that the assimilation process has run it's predestined course.

Try to retain some Human reasonable intellect, please Trogg, please humor us..

Zelsdorf aka doofus<... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Zelsdorf aka doofus

I would have passed up the "doofus" this time around out of an attempt, as Jay suggested, to be more polite.

However when someone posts what you did, it is just too tempting, apart from being apropos.

You see, Herr Z, I did not change the subject, but simply responded to a "dare" posted by Cybrludite above.

Forever after that response, anything I have posted has not been addressed with anything approaching a counterpoint. but rather just simplistic dismissal of anything mentioed as if it was nothing beyond quackery.

This sort of response seems to be the hallmark of conservatives: stand reason on its head and dismiss anything inconveniently in conflict w/ group think, usually done so w/ the quiver of epithets with which you conservatives come pre-armed that are deemed as winning points according to group think.

Pardon me for seeing Pavlovian Puppies. When a group of people speak in 1984ese, it's difficult to see anything else.

BTW: as I sit here writing the above, I am currently listening to the Great Maharushee Limbarf developing the current knee-jerk programming, totally bereft of any reasoning or evidence-just mere repetitive inculcation.

Exxxxxcelent, Smithers.... (Below threshold)
Monty Burns:

Exxxxxcelent, Smithers.

Another successful thread hijacking by mak44.

And all you dumfuks fell for it. Again.

Ah, my dear mak44, you real... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Ah, my dear mak44, you really amuse me.

That said, I see your arguments have devolved to mere insults. Finding your most cherished beliefs crumbling to dust when they come in contact with facts usually does that to people.

You're in a hole, young man/woman ... stop digging.

    That species once became extinct because their brains were to small to cope with evolutionary change.

Whatever.

I'm not the guy who thinks reversing Plessy V Ferguson would bring segregation back.

That was you. Troglodyte.

D-Hoggs You... (Below threshold)
mak44:

D-Hoggs

You people are forever searching for a, dare I say, nuance that you then use as a petard upon which you can hoist your opponent.

If you had a minimal ability to read between the lines or a sense of irony, you would have detected a tongue-in-cheek linkage to dinosaurs.

But you went for the literal.

I should have been direct and used T-Rex, but then that would have been risky exposure in front of the lurking "scientific creationists" that must be here amidst your group, and gawd only knows, the Cosmos is no older than 6000 years.

A person of reason just can't win here on this blogsite!

Why is Rummy shaking han... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Why is Rummy shaking hands with Saddam in that wonderful picture one never sees on the "MSM", the one taken two weeks after the murder of those Kurds...

That's crap. The picture of now Secretary Rumsfeld with Saddam was taken well before the 1988 gassing of the Kurds when he was still a private citizen, going to Iraq at the request of President Reagan. If I'm not mistaken, the picture is from 1982 or thereabouts--when Iran was our mortal enemy (remember them taking 50 US citizens hostages?) and supported by the Soviets and during the midst of the Cold War. So yeah, we took his side. So f-ing what? What does this prove? All it proves, once he was an ally (of sorts) in a time of need, but we severed ties with him and he became an enemy. To suggest any nefarious activity on the part of Rummy and alleged neocon plots is so much craptastic fantasy nonsense.

So Rob's right: Your memory is crap.

Sorry Virgo, but you... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Sorry Virgo, but you just left open the question of whether or not you can count higher than 11, at least without your pants down around your knees.

Kudos to someone for standi... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Kudos to someone for standing up for what they believe in, even though they will be attacked for it.

A lot of Wizbang readers say he should be murdered for it, but I disagree.

mak44:AAAAAAAHAHAH... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

mak44:

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I couldn't have written your response better myself!!

"If you had a minimal ability to read between the lines or a sense of irony, you would have detected a tongue-in-cheek linkage to dinosaurs...But you went for the literal...I should have been direct and used T-Rex"

Oh man thats good. Take your sentence and apply it to yourself mak02. I should have been direct and said "they are not extinct, because you are one".
Oh man I can't stop laughing!

Yeah, jp2, right on (pardon... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Yeah, jp2, right on (pardon the pun). Let's stop all abortion as a Christian-values nation. Capitol Punishment is much more fun; abortion, on the other hand, constricts the pool of candidates.

"you see we are all bound b... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

"you see we are all bound by things our government has signed like say The Geneva Convention ... as we were not attacked by Iraq".

Posted by Drew E.

astigafa,

You have no problem with Sadam shooting at our Air Force Patroling the no fly Zone after we liberated Kuwait?

"You speak for the Republican party on this one? (I had a Republican friend come up to me in late 2004 and say."

No stupid, those are your words and I highly doubt you have a Republican Friend. And feel free to give your every last penny to the DNC. Like I really care. How childish , are you expecting someone to run after you like when two teenagers having their first love spat? Grow up

Did you weep with Bimbo Boxer my brain dead Senator when Condi Rice held up 17 broken resolutions by Sadam , UN , UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTIONS CLEARLY STATING THAT FAILURE TO FOLLOW WOULD LEAD TO HARSH AND IMMEDIATE MILITARY ACTION?

Rob in L.A. & D-Hogg ...</p... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Rob in L.A. & D-Hogg ...

    Where did Saddam get the hardware to make the stuff he dropped on the Kurds? ...

Here astigafa is adopting the morally vacuous yet deliciously self-righteous position so popular with half-educated college students that since the United States helped (minimally) Saddam in his war against Iran (when Iran was considered the greater of two evils) in the 1980s, the United States has no moral standing to topple him nearly two decades later.

    This is your understanding of why we invaded Iraq in 2003?

Here astigafa is expressing his thirst for knowledge as to why America went into Iraq and toppled Saddam Hussein. Apparently, he has searched high and low, left and right and has been unable to find anything that explained that decision.

I am happy to say that I have found something that may help him find the answers he seeks. Apparently this is the document that was voted on by Congress that actually authorized the President to use the United States Armed Forces against Iraq. It was apparently passed the House on October 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133, and by the Senate on October 11, 2002 by a vote of 77-23.

For some strange incomprehensible reason, it is called the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq. And it purportedly contains a list of reasons justifying the invasion of Iraq.

According to WiKi:

    The Resolution cited several factors to justify action:

* Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire

* Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region"

* Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population"

* Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people"

* Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War

* Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor" international terrorist organizations, including Al Qaeda

* Fear that Iraq would provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorists for use against the United States

Here are a few excerpts:

    Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

    ...

    Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United
    Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public
    Law 102-1)," that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and "constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region," and that Congress, "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688";

    ...

    Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

    ...

    Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;

PS: astigafa - I think you meant to say write the DNC a really big check.

But seriously, can you afford one? Being that this is the "worst economy" in the history of all economies on several planets, I'm shocked you actually have a job and can spare such a large amount of cash.

I thought in "Bush's economy" everybody is unemployed and people are dying of starvation on the streets!

Keep mak44 posting away, fo... (Below threshold)

Keep mak44 posting away, folks!

The more the irrational anti-American moonbat posts, the more votes for Republicans in the fall!

Hey - you voters thinking about going third party or staying home: THIS moron is the type you will empower by so doing.


'nuff said!

;-)

You righties out to ask for... (Below threshold)
Hugh Grady:

You righties out to ask for a massive tax cut (something you all believe in), take the money and get some therapy for your anger. Wow. Oh, by the way, my guess is all you folks so hot to rush to judge this guy and his "supporters" are probabl;y the same folks who foam at the mouth about the "elites" "rush to judment" about Hadatha. Get some therapy, get a grip and come to understand that a new day is coming and we'll soon be set free from the grip of the right wing fascists who have ruled us for 6+ years.

We should have gotten the h... (Below threshold)
Lee:

We should have gotten the hell out of Iraq shortly after Saddam was captured....but the Republican administration had more important things on their minds, like the continued raping of the constitution, instituting and expanding their domestic spying program, and supporting the rise in the price of oil -- and they needed the war in Iraq as a smoke screen for that.

Also - the famous Rumsfeld/Saddam photo dates back to 1983, according to my quick search.

And I suppose Islamic terro... (Below threshold)

And I suppose Islamic terrorists are merely "standing up for their beliefs" when they strap on a bomb belt and blow up a bus or a cafe, right?

Standing up for one's beliefs is pretty much pointless if one's beliefs are wrong, or held for the wrong reasons.

Lt. Watada knew that combat was a possibility when he signed up. You can't join a game of tag and then get pissed off when you're It. If he really had/has such a problem with this war, why didn't he say so earlier? Or is he merely trying to get out of combat duty by being a conscientious objector (or as close as he can get to being one)?

Apparantly to some people swearing an oath means nothing when said oath becomes inconvenient. That applies to more than just the military, btw.

(Oh, and by the way, claiming that President Bush and VP Cheney are not upholding the Constitution only to turn around and say you have no proof because Congress blocked all investigations is kinda like saying the government knows about UFOs and little green men but are blocking investigations in an attempt to hide the truth.)

Why is Rummy shaking ha... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:
    Why is Rummy shaking hands with Saddam in that wonderful picture one never sees on the "MSM", the one taken two weeks after the murder of those Kurds, when the Republican Bush I administration increased the amount of aid then being sent to Saddam?

astigafa ... c'mon. Admit it. You're really a Right-Wing plant, aren't you? You're here to make the Left look either really mendacious or extremely stupid, right?

For the benefit of mak44, field-negro, jp2, etc. here are some facts.

- Rumsfeld met Saddam Hussein as an envoy of President Reagan on December 19-20, 1983.

- The attack on the Kurdish city of Halabja was carried out on March 16-17, 1988.

- Throughout 1988, the President was Ronald W. Reagan. George H. W. Bush did not take the oath of office until January 21, 1989.

Thus endeth the history lesson.

Stop being such a naughty boy astigafa. It's just mean to make these folks (especially jp2, Lee and mak44) any dumber.

Hugh:Oh,... (Below threshold)
SomeGuy:

Hugh:

Oh, by the way, my guess is all you folks so hot to rush to judge this guy and his "supporters" are probabl;y the same folks who foam at the mouth about the "elites" "rush to judment" about Hadatha.

Err... How is this a rush to judge? He has been ordered to go to Iraq and he held a press conference to state he isn't gonna go. I don't think I'm really rushing to judgement... He should make small rocks out of big rocks, that simple.

And for those of you that have never had to repeat these words with your right hand raised:

I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Posted by: Hugh Gr... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Posted by: Hugh Grady at June 7, 2006 02:15 PM

"and come to understand that a new day iscoming and we'll soon be set free from the grip of the right wing fascists who have ruled us for 6+ years".

Hey Hugh, I BELIEVE YOU BELIEVE THAT! Really, I do.You need to stop looking into the "Hypnotic Gaze" of the wide eyed queen of hypocracy, Bugsy Pelosi. Problem solved


How can you expect to convince us of this nonsense when you yourself don't even believe it. What is it like to be ruled by a whatever you called it and why do you allow yourself to believe in lies and in things that just aren't true?


Do you believe that you are being ruled by Right Wing Fascist? The reality and truth is you are not. So I must ask why are you so desparate to become a slave and brainwashed by the Commycrats "Perpetual Fraud" and really live a life of depression and complete helplessness that they have fooled you in to believing you now live in?

... come to understand... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:
    ... come to understand that a new day is coming and we'll soon be set free from the grip of the right wing fascists who have ruled us for 6+ years.

Hugh ... do you actually know what the word "fascist" means? Here's a hint of what it is not; if by tomorrow you're not in jail, then you're NOT being ruled by fascists.

Because, if we Righties really were fascists, you'd not be posting where anyone can figure out your IP address and track you down.

    ... the Republican administration had more important things on their minds, like the continued raping of the constitution, instituting and expanding their domestic spying program, and supporting the rise in the price of oil -- and they needed the war in Iraq as a smoke screen for that.

But they never reckoned that the great Lee, magnificent he, would see through their lies and regard with horror their vast Right-Wing conspiracy to rape the Constitution, listen in on Lee's phone conversations and raise the price of "Oil!!".

Here Lee comes to save the DAAAYY!!!
To reveal Right Wing conspiracAAAAYS!!!

Hey SomeGuy....I took that ... (Below threshold)
Hugh Grady:

Hey SomeGuy....I took that oath in 1970. Did you ever? You preach like fools, hypocrisy dripping like venom from your lips. All guts and glory when it's someone else's guts. Pathetic. And yes, i do believe that we are ruled by right-wing fascists. But my optimism is shining through.

Mak07 AKA TroggYou... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Mak07 AKA Trogg

You billowing bag of strawmans fodder, try again You Hitler worshipper..

...Troglodytes. That sp... (Below threshold)
mantis:

...Troglodytes. That species once became extinct because their brains were to small to cope with evolutionary change.

Ok, I'm all for a good extinct species joke now and again, but this is very inaccurate. First of all, a troglodyte does not refer to one specific species, though it is often used pejoratively to signify the Cro-Magnon, or "Cave Man". Cro-Magnon had a brain capacity 4-5% larger than modern humans. In any case Cro-Magnon did not become extinct because his "brain was too small" (such thinking belies a lack of understanding about evolution), a larger brain does not mean more intelligence, Cro-Magnon probably was just as smart as modern humans, and the word troglodyte comes from the species group Pan troglodytes, or chimpanzee. I'm pretty sure those aren't extinct.

Oh wait, there's a topic on this thread? Ah, didn't we fund and supply both sides in the Iraq-Iran War? It's harder to convince them we give a shit what happens to them after that, isn't it?

Apparently some people up above on this threat are confused, Martin, and may have been thinking of March 24, 1984, when Rumsfeld met Hussein (no photo this time), which was the same day that it came out Hussein was using mustard gas and tabun on the Iranians.

Ah, crap, that's still not the topic! What is it again? A deserter? Hmmm. It seems to me if you don't like war you don't join the military.

Blaming the left for this guy's decisions is pretty disingenuous, don't you think?

Hey SomeGuy....I t... (Below threshold)
SomeGuy:
Hey SomeGuy....I took that oath in 1970. Did you ever? You preach like fools, hypocrisy dripping like venom from your lips. All guts and glory when it's someone else's guts. Pathetic. And yes, i do believe that we are ruled by right-wing fascists. But my optimism is shining through.

Yaeh, I took it in 1988 (...and 1991...and 1994) and am planning on taking it again in about one month, so your lame cries of chickenhawk are just so much "hypocrisy dripping like venom from your lips". And guess what? If I'm ordered to go to somewhere, I'm not going to piss, moan and cry like this this dumbass.

BTW: The jack-booted thugs will be at your door in 3...2...1...

So is blaming the right for... (Below threshold)
virgo:

So is blaming the right for this Mans failure to stand by His oath.

Good Post Peter F., info a... (Below threshold)
Rob in LA Ca.:

Good Post Peter F., info and for the backup,D-Hogg and Martin A. Knight, the truth backed by facts just seems to set them off all the more. Man this is deeply saddening in a way, I hardly pray anymore but I suddenly feel the urge to pray for these folks. but I know better because I have been around some trutly dark souless and devious minds are hear in real life and this is just the Internet full of those who are pushing the "DEMOCRAT PERPETUAL FRAUD" and willingly support their only strategy left ,"SAY ANYTHING" and "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO REGAIN POWER".

I don't doubt you'd wear ja... (Below threshold)
Hugh Grady:

I don't doubt you'd wear javkboots if you could,What time are you arriving?

...What time are you arrivi... (Below threshold)
SomeGuy:

...What time are you arriving?

Are you kidding me? We Republicans/Fascits contract that crap out... I'm too busy lighting my cigar with $100 bills and fixing the next election to be bothered with the small stuff.

Now be a good boy and unlock your door so the "guys" don't scuff their boots or rip their brown shirts. I like my goons to look sharp!

Martin A Knight... (Below threshold)
mak44:

Martin A Knight

Geez, so many things that could be addressed since I last checked this thread, but I'll pick this one for now.

You posted: "Hugh ... do you actually know what the word "fascist" means? Here's a hint of what it is not; if by tomorrow you're not in jail, then you're NOT being ruled by fascists."

Somehow I missed the history lesson where all the German and Italian peoples were rounded up and jailed in the 1930's & '40's. Where did the armies come from? It's hard to fight while confined in the gulag.

BTW: this nation has a higher proportion of jailed population than any other nation on Earth, including China.

Just check out Professor Laurence Britt's 14 Points if Fascism and explain that elements of each one are not already present in the Bush/Cheney regime.

Just becaise we aren't goostepping already w/ the latest fashion armband does not debunk the fact that there are significant elements of fascist rule already in place.\\And the mentality on this blogsite reflects that that is quite ok w/ the members.

Mantis, this isn't the f... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Mantis, this isn't the first time you've made this silly comment.Why do you care.

Just pointing out that you are and example of what I call the pretend conversion, someone who claims to have been a member of the opposite party until recently, when they just had to switch over because of something offensive about that party. It happens all the time on blogs, from both sides, but your deceit is particularly obvious because you employ the Rush Limbaugh tactic of calling your "former" party by the wrong name.

What is so democratic about the democrat party?

It's name, the Democratic Party, which it got in the 1830s. Anyone familiar with conventions of right wing talk radio knows the old trick of calling it the Democrat Party, because hey, they're not democratic (hee-hee, we're so clever). Anyway when someone who claims to be a Democrat uses is it it is glaringly obvious they are full of shit.

Mantis , I'll assume your just as bitter as Mak44 or equally ignorant of facts unless you state otherwise since mak44 seems to have have a thing for you or does he always butt in on everyones personal comments of others.

Well, we all know what happens what you make assumptions, don't we? You make an ass out of you, umption, and mak44, but he's doing ok by himself.

Fact is when I registered to vote I registered democrat,but that is going to all change becuse of you , that's right.

Awesome! I can tell my friends I made a fake Democrat change parties because I pointed out he was a fake. Anyway, don't hurt your mom's feelings on account of me, I've never been a registered Democrat (though I did register with the Republic Party once).

HaHa... (Below threshold)
virgo:

HaHa

Hey Trogg44 whenever You ma... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Hey Trogg44 whenever You manage to stumble out of Your cave again? I would Be willing to go down to the local "Too Big Too Bad" walmart and pick You up some post B.C. cave paint to paint Your latest hate Bush rant all over Your cave walls.. this is of course only if the price of Dino fuel is tooooooooo much for poor persecuted Trogg to afford..

Hey Mark, he is the son of ... (Below threshold)
cate s.:

Hey Mark, he is the son of the former elections guy here in HI. In fact as I type this, this clown is running a teleconference down at the State Capitol building. As I stated previously I don't want this clown anywhere near my husband. I believe that this man knew what he was signing up for when he signed up in 2003. Living out here in the People's Republic of Hawaii, there will be many supporters of his all over the islands.

MAK44 et al:You got ... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

MAK44 et al:
You got a real good point about Bush destroying the constitution. And if there is real truth to the story, why aren't you doing something about it? The constitution states that if the government fails, it is the duty of the people to revolt! Where are you? Why haven't you taken to the barricades?

If the Republicans have subverted the rule of law and the constitution as you claim, you are perfectly within your rights to revolt! In fact, it is your duty to do so! So, when does the revolution start? When are you going to pass out the weapons and storm the gates of the White House?

There are more cowards here than some lieutenant who won't do his duty. I see cowards all over this website. Every one of you who claim the Govenment and the Constitution has been subverted and have not taken up arms to restore the true America are COWARDS! Either that or you are liars! Take your pick. I'll wait.

When you volunteer for mili... (Below threshold)
Peg C.:

When you volunteer for military service you do not get to choose your missions. You sign up for any and all missions assigned to you. There are plenty of conservative, gung-ho, active duty personnel who would feel affronted and outraged if a future (Dem) president sent them off on nonsense missions in a demoralizing atmosphere a la Clinton. But they wouldn't refuse to serve; they would simply not re-up. And that's the true danger, and the hope and plan of liberals.

Only unprincipled cowards abandon their duty.

Lol. I have to laugh.... (Below threshold)
thornyTristan:

Lol. I have to laugh.

The shocking fact that...horrors! Ehren Watada has members of the LEFT!! {:O helping him out! Oh no!!!...accompanied by the bleats of lonely little armchair chickenhawks trying to puff themselves up, by casting slurs (i.e., he's a coward, he's worthless, and...my fave...he probably planned this before he enlisted, ROFL!!) on a hero.

Yeah, that's right: a hero. A guy who, IMO, deserves the JFK Award for profiles in courage.

Well, luckily for the human race, there are ppl like him around, who will stand up and speak truth to power.

And, unfortunately, there are people like you out there...folks who will defend the Powers that Be till your dying breath, even as the ship is sinking in the cold waters of Abramoff corruption, Enron entanglements, widespread voter-fraud, and ensuring that the Geneva Conventions are a thing of the past.

So, how does it feel, rooting for a wannabee despot? Nah, don't bother, I really don't want to know.

You people are brilliant. ... (Below threshold)
Ugh:

You people are brilliant. Your collective command of tangential information and the word COWARD! never fails to astonish. It sure is easy, though, calling a soldier names from the comfort of your couch, beer/nachos in hand. One might go so far as to say it's a cowardly thing to do in itself, at least unless you yourself are prepared to register for the same pointless and self-defeating combat. Regardless, no one has any claim on this boy's life, not the state, not the military, and least of all the snitty fools (myself now sadly included) who waste their time posting responses to responses to responses to a poorly read blog.

The war has been a waste of life and of money, and the sooner he leaves military service, the better. So he took an oath. Bully for him. That doesn't mean you all get to sit on your asses in Wichita and Biloxi being pissy because he refuses to die for you. (If only the dead in Iraq--now numbering well over those dead on 9/11?--had actually been dying for a good cause...) Sure, it does mean he has to go to prison for a little while for defrauding the government, but better that than serving the policy of a corrupt waste of skin like W. Of course, if he were cleverer, he'd just walk down the street hand-in-hand with a buddy of his and get discharged for being queer. No prison time then... just the satisfaction of knowing you live in a country so caught up in irrational fear that it's tough enough to take out foreign dictators without provocation but can't bear the thought of a same-sex kiss. War, moralism, and debt... sounds like fascism to me.

Stay focused everyone... Hi... (Below threshold)
Vegas Vic:

Stay focused everyone... His decision NOT TO GO to fight for his country is a good thing. Considering his backbone (Or lack of) he most certainly would have jeopardized the lives of TRUE soldiers. How the Army missed the yellow strip on his back during the physical is beyond me and the army should be investigated by the MSM,post haste!!

UghOr catch a luck... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Ugh

Or catch a lucky piece of well aimed schrapnel like Kerry..

If the kiss is between Zarquawi and Limp Laden thats fine..

War, Moralism and Debt! sounds like a depressed creation of GOD cryin for help?

"it absolutely makes me sic... (Below threshold)
jummy:

"it absolutely makes me sick to see Col. Wright doing what she does today. She wasn't much of a Major when I served under her as a 2nd Lt. and I remember one of the other Majors saying that she only got to where she was because of her sex and she was also a woman."

OWN!!!

I hope that everyone here w... (Below threshold)
lin:

I hope that everyone here who has written in to complain about the anti war stance has enlisted or sent their child/husband/wife/parent to enlist. Unless you are willing to put "your money where your mouth is" then you should shut up! and respect people of conscious. As well I heard on the news today that the prime minister if Iran planned to allow women go to the soccer games to see the world cup and the mullahs stepped in and said NO. No rights for women. The US congress is foisting a RELIGIOUS view of marriage, right to life issues,etc and it is the REVERANDS yanking the governments chain. Reverands mullahs - whats the difference? Neither stand for tolerance and allowing individuals THE RIGHT TO MAKE PERSONAL CHOICES!! Everyone says they speak Gods truth. From my religious training I seem to remember that Jesus talked about free will and allowing people to choose Him or not. Mayhaps those that espouse their owm christianity should allow others what Jesus did - the right to live their lives as they saw fit and let God decide the consequences.

i'd almost feel somewhat so... (Below threshold)
jummy:

i'd almost feel somewhat sorry for the young watada, apparently having been pressured into this by his father. imagine having one of those angry and agressively "pedagogical" teachers/professors for a dad.

"but, dad...it's fraud."

"god dammit, ehren. are you going to turn your back on me and, what? go have your vapid mtv beachouse empty 20's like all the other good aryan consumers in the dorms?"


but he was an adult when he signed up, so his choice to enlist after the onset of major hostilities solely as a ploy to create political theater is his to answer for.

i had always suspected such things were going on, but always figured it was somewhat improbable, because, who would buy it? i could be a couragious war resister of identical gravity if i so chose; if i could stomach fraud.

this leads me to wonder if the brain bugs of the social justice movement have a really potentially destructive legal strategy in mind.

can civil attorneys defend in military courts?

"...apparently having be... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"...apparently having been pressured into this by his father."

Where did you find that fact, jummy, or are you following the example of some bloggers here at Whizbang! and just making up a "fact" then commenting on it?

This individual, several mo... (Below threshold)
Dave in W-S:

This individual, several months after the invasion of Iraq, enlisted in the Army of his own free will. He then applied for and was accepted to Officer Candidate School, again of his own free will. Upon completion of OCS, he was offered and accepted a commission in the US Army as an Infantry officer. He is a college educated person, theoretically at least, capable of independent thought and reasoning. I see no reason to suspect that he was brainwashed or coerced into becoming and officer in a combat arms unit. Certainly it was not because of coercive home rearing, since his father was apparently a Vietnam era protester.

There could, of course, be extenuating circumstances to which we are not yet privy. Therefore, I say let's give this individual a fair trial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. And then let's punish him to the maximum extent of the law. If it turns out he became an officer to make exactly this type of move as an anti-war political demonstration, then I say hang him.

i said it appeared that way... (Below threshold)
jummy:

i said it appeared that way. which it does, considering that bob watada was publicly a very aggressive man and very likely his son's primary political influence.

First: Lin - Go back to you... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

First: Lin - Go back to your Bible. Christ told the soldiers to go an "Be good soldiers." And i seem to remember something to the effect of Rendering unto Ceasar that which is - you know the rest. So don't slide that judeo-christian guilt crap at the readers of this blog - it won't float.

Second: I am one of those people who have served and I have "put my money where my mouth is" and am telling you to do the same. Let's compare DD-214s and then see what's shaking.

Third: If the lieutenant wants to play the "illegal war" card then he better be able to discount not only the orders of his Commander in Chief but also the vote in the Senate and even the vote in the UN Security Council. An RAF officer in the UK tried to do the same and got convicted. He's now doing hard time in the British equivalent of Leavenworth. There is a difference in an illegal order and an illegal war. He will be convicted on disobeying a legal order. And for those who will cry "Innocent until proven guilty" - his guilt came from his own lips.

And lastly: Do you people really want officers in the military to pick and chose what orders to obey? Think about it for a minute - Do you really? Because that is the way of the Praetorian Guard of ancient Rome. That is the way of the SS of Nazi Germany. Take a good look at that kind of history and then tell me that is the kind of military you really want. You can't have it both ways.

Very nicely put Lin, God bl... (Below threshold)
virgo:

Very nicely put Lin, God bless You..

lin: Your rant is devoid of... (Below threshold)
Dave in W-S:

lin: Your rant is devoid of logic. Of course Lt. Watada has the "THE RIGHT TO MAKE PERSONAL CHOICES". He chose to enlist in the army; he chose to apply for Officer Candidate School; He chose to accept a commission as an Infantry officer; and he made all of these free will choices during the course of the war he now claims to oppose. Now he has chosen to defy his legal orders and make a political statement. He mhas ade his choices and now it is time for consequences.

Choices always carry consequences. Do not try to deprive Lt. Watabe of the consequences of his freely made choices. He has worked hard for those consequences and deserves them.

virgo: You are a fool.

i think lin's 15. that's wh... (Below threshold)
jummy:

i think lin's 15. that's what the fresh converts do: they say stupid stuff like, "doesn't the bible say 'thou shalt not kill?'"

Somehow I missed the his... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Somehow I missed the history lesson where all the German and Italian peoples were rounded up and jailed in the 1930's & '40's. Where did the armies come from? It's hard to fight while confined in the gulag.

The Holocaust is "obscure" history now?

You ACTUALLY trying to argue that Germans weren't routinely rounded up and jailed?

BWA HA HA HA HA!

BTW: this nation has a higher proportion of jailed population than any other nation on Earth, including China.

Well, we don't do that whole summary execution thing that a lot of other countries do. I suppose you think this is some damning point or something, but you missed the mark.

Just becaise we aren't goostepping already w/ the latest fashion armband does not debunk the fact that there are significant elements of fascist rule already in place.\\And the mentality on this blogsite reflects that that is quite ok w/ the members.

Ignoring that whole pesky "If you oppose fascists, you don't remain free to do so" thing.

But, hey, I wouldn't dare to question your patriotism here.

The shocking fact that...horrors! Ehren Watada has members of the LEFT!! {:O helping him out! Oh no!!!...accompanied by the bleats of lonely little armchair chickenhawks trying to puff themselves up, by casting slurs (i.e., he's a coward, he's worthless, and...my fave...he probably planned this before he enlisted, ROFL!!) on a hero.

A hero who volunteered for service after the invasion, drew a paycheck for months, and when asked to perform the duty for which he signed up for and was paid for --- decided not to.

Yup, that's heroism --- to the left.

Yeah, that's right: a hero. A guy who, IMO, deserves the JFK Award for profiles in courage.

Well, it'd make as much sense as giving Arafat the Peace Prize.

Well, luckily for the human race, there are ppl like him around, who will stand up and speak truth to power.

Jesus, you people actually USE that line? Wow.

And, unfortunately, there are people like you out there...folks who will defend the Powers that Be till your dying breath, even as the ship is sinking in the cold waters of Abramoff corruption

Missed that whole Jefferson corruption.
And Reid corruption.

Enron entanglements

Feel free to explain them. Go ahead and reveal what Bush or anybody in his administration did to help Enron when the problems arose. Clinton cabinet members BEGGED Bush's people to bail them out.

widespread voter-fraud

Again, feel free to prove this somewhere.

and ensuring that the Geneva Conventions are a thing of the past.

You might want to peruse who is covered by the Conventions.

So, how does it feel, rooting for a wannabee despot? Nah, don't bother, I really don't want to know.

The only authoritarian here is you.

One might go so far as to say it's a cowardly thing to do in itself, at least unless you yourself are prepared to register for the same pointless and self-defeating combat. Regardless, no one has any claim on this boy's life, not the state, not the military, and least of all the snitty fools (myself now sadly included) who waste their time posting responses to responses to responses to a poorly read blog.

Shame he volunteered for the service.

After the war already started.

Do I ask what whackjob blog gave you your marching orders here?

I hope that everyone here who has written in to complain about the anti war stance has enlisted or sent their child/husband/wife/parent to enlist.

"SCREW INDEPENDENT THOUGHT! SCREW PEOPLE HAVING THEIR OWN VIEWS!!!!"

Unless you are willing to put "your money where your mouth is" then you should shut up! and respect people of conscious.

Considering that the Lt and I have equal amounts of experience under fire --- he has no more right to speak on it than I do.

I also find it the APEX of irony that the left is basically supporting a mlitary junta. After all, the ONLY people allowed to lead the military --- per the left --- are former military men.

That whole civilian leadership thing probably was a bad idea, right?

The US congress is foisting a RELIGIOUS view of marriage, right to life issues,etc and it is the REVERANDS yanking the governments chain. Reverands mullahs - whats the difference?

The lack of burning, bloodshed, and beheadings for starters.
-=Mike

Thinking about this thread ... (Below threshold)
SomeGuy:

Thinking about this thread and the responses of those people who are obvilusly left or right (as if there are any moderates here), it comes back to the fundamental difference between the two ideologies... It seems to me that those of us on the right side of the spectrum value individual responsibility, i.e. He took an oath/signed a contract and we expect him to live up to it; you knew what you were getting into, be a man, suck it up and go serve your county like you promised, nay, SWORE, you would. Those on the left, however, seem to be willing to `let it slide` because they see his decision as the "morally correct thing to do". It's the same philosophy that lets a child rapist go with a slap on the wrist (probation) because he is too short for prison. "It's obvioulsy not HIS fault, he's short." A bunch of whiners with a victim mentality...

Those on the left, howev... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Those on the left, however, seem to be willing to `let it slide` because they see his decision as the "morally correct thing to do".

I'm on the left and I don't say let it slide. He knew what he was getting into, and he knows the consequences of his refusal. Let him have what's coming to him.

If I ever need a moron, I k... (Below threshold)
rH:

If I ever need a moron, I know where to go. A veritable repository of idiocy! And good on Lt. Watada for having the guts to believe in something other than "Bush good! Sand niggers bad!"

i would like people to try ... (Below threshold)
jummy:

i would like people to try an ongoing experiment. whenever you're reading a long comment thread at a conservative blog, hit ctrl+f and search for racial slurs. in probably every case, i'd wager, the commenter and context of the slurs so located come from progressives like rH.

you see, progressives aren't anti-racist. they deal in racism as negative racists, saying "you hate" rather than "i hate" but differing little otherwise from conventional racists.

"If I ever need a moron, I ... (Below threshold)
Tam K.:

"If I ever need a moron, I know where to go. A veritable repository of idiocy!"

WOW! Me too! www.democraticunderground.com - They speak truth to power there!

the biggest enemy, domestic... (Below threshold)

the biggest enemy, domestic or foreign, of the US constitution now is the president. his powers are enumerated in the constitution, and he has sworn to support this law, which includes the tenth amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

the power to initiate war was intentionally withheld from the presidency by the founders, so that one man could not direct the country into disaster. congress has sole power in this regard, and any legal war fought by the US is declared by a large group of legislators, not blame shifted with a blank check (de facto illegal constitutional amendment) as the traitorous wimps did following 9/11.

under the constitution, the power to wage war is not transferable. only through the lawful amendment of the US constitution can that change. no such amendment exists. no law or other communication by congress supersedes the constitution. every war initiated by the president without a congressional declaration of war violates the supreme law of the land. congress has not declared war since 1941.

if ehren watada had betrayed his oath, he would have been embraced by the US military and his "brothers" and "sisters" in arms (fellow traitors trampling the constitution). now that he has chosen to stand up and honor the promise he swore, that same group will turn its back, attempting to destroy him. he has taken the more difficult path, yet he's called a slacker. the UCMJ requires the following of only lawful orders, which no order requiring the further prosecution of an illegal war may be.

every real, honorable soldier such as ehren watada should be supported in full as this former republic unravels for the sake of usurpation and skullduggery, courtesy of brownshirt collaborators.

read and weep.

Guys. Don't forget who gave... (Below threshold)
Joe:

Guys. Don't forget who gave Saddam those "WMD's" in the first place...




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