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Duke Lacrosse Rape Case - Alleged Victim's Credibility Sags

With national attention focused elsewhere, the case of the stripper who alleges she was beaten and raped by members of the Duke lacrosse team has quietly been falling apart. From a Newsweek summary of the new information filled in court briefs:

A police affidavit stated that her medical records revealed the victim had "injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted vaginally and anally." But according to a motion filed by defense attorneys last week, no such physical trauma was found during her exam at Duke hospital. Quoting from the report, which was submitted to the court under seal, the motion states that the nurse - who was in training - examined the woman's entire pelvic region and noted only diffuse swelling of the vaginal walls, a condition explainable by consensual sexual activity.

Additionally, WRAL reports:

In a motion filed Friday, defense attorneys say the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse rape investigation went through at least six sessions with police, trying to point out her attackers.

Then there's the statements by the other dancer to police:

An escort service dancer told police early on that a fellow dancer's allegations of rape at a Duke University lacrosse team party were a "crock."

In two interviews with investigators, Kim Roberts told of rude behavior but no sexual assault.


And a bit of information that, in addition to the consensual sex the accuser had with her boyfriend/driver, explain the exam results:

Defense lawyers also accuse Himan of withholding information about an encounter the woman said she had before going to the lacrosse party.


It involved a couple in a hotel room, and she told Himan she used a vibrator. That, the statement said, "clearly could have caused signs or symptoms of vaginal penetration."

The possibility that Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong can even prove a crime occurred, let alone that any of the three players charged were involved, seems to get even more remote as each week passes.


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Comments (166)

A prosecution merely to per... (Below threshold)
virgo1:

A prosecution merely to persecute.

I always have been skeptica... (Below threshold)
stan25:

I always have been skeptical of this case and now can clearly state that this was bogus to start with. I am expecting that the charges will be dropped in next week's hearing.

jesse the jackson, where ar... (Below threshold)
serfer62:

jesse the jackson, where are you???

If all is true that has bee... (Below threshold)
Eneils Bailey:

If all is true that has been reported so far, with no silver bullets appearing on Nifong's behalf, he should be charged both civilly and criminally. Blowing up all these charges before the election and indictment while ignoring evidence to the contrary should be sufficient for his removal from office

This case has always failed... (Below threshold)
Mark:

This case has always failed the "smell test". From the beginning it looked like a politically motivated hit job. To be honest, I expect that the only reason charges haven't already been dropped is that Nifong has been hoping to figure out a way to let it die, and the family is probably pushing hard for him to prosecute since if he drops the charges for "lack of evidence" it will ruin their chances to get a big civil verdict.

Maybe it is true that a pro... (Below threshold)
Aubrey:

Maybe it is true that a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. Considering the harm that can cause someon who may well be innocent, it shouldn't be. Perhaps it's time to raise the threshold for indictment.

Heh, heh... i'm certain tha... (Below threshold)
OneDrummer:

Heh, heh... i'm certain that stripper also failed the 'smell test' given her busy activities that week....

I think she underwent a "la... (Below threshold)
steve:

I think she underwent a "lacrosse-examination" but no rape.

jesse the jackson, where ar... (Below threshold)
Eneils Bailey:

jesse the jackson, where are you???

There's not enough money in the pot. Jesse and Big Al have taken to fleecing large corporations lately. That's where the money be.

Nifong isn't the only one w... (Below threshold)
Mrs. Davis:

Nifong isn't the only one who shouldspend some time in the defendant's chair. Duke University cut these guys and their coach off leaving them appearing guilty in the court of public opinion. I hope Duke pays big. It's got deeper pockets than Derm.

Mrs DavisWhile I t... (Below threshold)

Mrs Davis

While I truly believe Nifong should be removed from office and disbarred, I believe Duke was actually correct in making the coach resign.

Why? Not because of this travesty of a case, but that from what I've read, he was well aware of his team behaving in sanctionable ways... wild parties with underage drinking ... and did nothing to curb it.

The boys were acting like typical unsupervised jocks and when the adults in direct supervision of them deliberately failed to live up to THEIR responsibilities, then it is they who suffer the consequences.

Duke should be held accountable for failing to police its campus when the posters with pictures of the LAX players went up. That was an incitement to mob violence, tacitly sanction by an administration that sat on its hands.

There is enough blame to go around.

Duke should have waited til... (Below threshold)
Mrs. Davis:

Duke should have waited till all the facts are out before taking permanent action. A suspension would have been fine. A firing and an abandonment of the team when serious charges like these are in the air? Some alma mater.

Her name is actually "Himan... (Below threshold)
SmartGuy:

Her name is actually "Himan"? My guess is that hers has been missing for a long time.

Listen to me.... you have t... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Listen to me.... you have to hear both sides of the case and not just the defense's spin. We have NOT heard Mike Nifong's evidence therefore, it is stupid to form an opinion without it. Only vile ignorant people with no CARE for the real truth will accept this kind of dirty, vile tactics from the defense. We have a legal system here in America and it is not one-sided. The OLD SOUTH'S way of justice is over. It seems to me that YOU people want (you know who you are) this case to disappear because it's a poor black woman and rich wealthly white guys, so you have chosen to only hear their side and DAMN to the rest of the story..The attorney's want you to believe that it's not about race and that's a bald faced LIE. This is one of the reasons that RACE RELATIONS is so terrible here in this country. Don't even try to tell me otherwise, remember I live here. Mike Nifong is fighting for justice and I give him praise for it. I'm for justice done the right way and not some high priced, vile, dirty, disrespectful tactics of low-down defense lawyers.

I don't need evidence. I ju... (Below threshold)
mike nifong:

I don't need evidence. I just got re-elected!

Now, listen to me, justice5... (Below threshold)

Now, listen to me, justice58. In the USA, a party is innocent of a criminal charge until proven guilty in a court of law - even if that party is white.

Furthermore, it is possible for a black person to make a false charge against a white person in attempt to get out of legal or political trouble.

IMHO, it an act of racism to assume that the accused in this case are guilty because they are white. - Yes, a black person can be guilty of racism.

In this particular case, the accuser was foolish to work as a stripper at a private party, and the accused were foolish to hire their accuser to strip for them.

Their behavior was not due to the race of any of them. Their behavior was due to the fact that they are creatures of flesh, and all creatures of flesh do foolish things, whether they be black or white.

Listen to me.... you hav... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Listen to me.... you have to hear both sides of the case and not just the defense's spin. We have NOT heard Mike Nifong's evidence therefore, it is stupid to form an opinion without it.

Let's look at what we DO know:

1) The line-up had ONLY lacrosse players. No chance of her picking a non-lacrosse player, which makes her identification of the accused inadmissible in court.

2) One of the charged was definitively NOT THERE at the time of the lie...I mean alleged crime. That ATM camera footage is a problem.

3) The DNA tests came back negative. Repeatedly.

4) She was smiling in pictures less than a full
minute after she was allegedly attacked.

5) Her story changed repeatedly...THE DAY OF THE EVENT. She told the police she wasn't raped. She told the nurse she was. She then told the police AGAIN that she was not raped.

6) The nurse was completely unaware of her "activities" earlier in the day and simply went with what the dancer said --- that she was raped.

7) One of the charged she said had a mustache --- yet nobody has ever seen him with a mustache.

8) Strippers NEVER go to parties without bouncers. Period.

Only vile ignorant people with no CARE for the real truth will accept this kind of dirty, vile tactics from the defense.

How dare they --- DEFEND THEMSELVES! Those bastards!

We have a legal system here in America and it is not one-sided.

Which is a bit of a problem for Nifong, since this case is, easily, the weakest prosecution I've EVER seen. Nothing approaches it.

The OLD SOUTH'S way of justice is over. It seems to me that YOU people want (you know who you are) this case to disappear because it's a poor black woman and rich wealthly white guys, so you have chosen to only hear their side and DAMN to the rest of the story.

Seems to me that you are listening to her because she's black and those evil white boys did it because, darn it, a stripper wouldn't lie.

You seem to have the racial hang-up about this. If the races were reversed, you'd be going nuts about this abuse of prosecutorial power.

The attorney's want you to believe that it's not about race and that's a bald faced LIE. This is one of the reasons that RACE RELATIONS is so terrible here in this country.

Civil rights leaderships are race hustlers. Yeah, we know. You're watching Tawana Brawley II.

Don't even try to tell me otherwise, remember I live here. Mike Nifong is fighting for justice and I give him praise for it.

So long as he persecutes whitey. Goes after a black guy on a case as remotely weak as this and you'd see the problems.

But let race be more important to you than justice.

I'm for justice done the right way and not some high priced, vile, dirty, disrespectful tactics of low-down defense lawyers.

The 8 points I mentioned are FACTS. Any ONE of them kills the entire case.
-=Mike

justice58,Your remem... (Below threshold)
GrochoNC:

justice58,
Your remember all those 3000+ documents that Nifong gave to the defence? This information came out of those documents. Also do you actually think the defense lawyers would lie in a court document they filed about this? Read over this latest information it was from a Court motion filed by the defense. WHy would they lie in that in a nationally known case that everyone is watching closely.

Besides that your complaining about the defense doing all this...
"Only vile ignorant people with no CARE for the real truth will accept this kind of dirty, vile tactics from the defense"
Nifong started this not the defense, go back when this first came out and before the election.

"reporter Shae Crisson asked him [Mike Nifong] early on if he had any doubt that the woman was assaulted, strangled and raped.

"There's no doubt, as far as I'm concerned," Nifong said."

other quotes from nifong
"The circumstances of the rape indicated a deep racial motivation for some of the things that were done. It makes a crime that is by its nature one of the most offensive and invasive even more so."

"This is a case we felt we needed a quick turnaround," Nifong said. (waiting a year now)

circumstances of the case are not suggestive of the alternate explanation that has been suggested by some of the members of the situation. There is evidence of trauma in the victim's vaginal area that was noted when she was examined by a nurse at the hospital. And her general demeanor was suggestive of the fact that she had been through a traumatic situation."

"My reading of the report of the emergency room nurse would indicate that some type of sexual assault did in fact take place," Nifong said. (use of a vibrator and the boyfriends seaman in her)

"The circumstances of the rape indicated a deep racial motivation for some of the things that were done," District Attorney Mike Nifong said. "It makes a crime that is by its nature one of the most offensive and invasive even more so."

"There was a feeling that Duke students' daddies could buy them expensive lawyers and that they knew the right people.

"even if DNA results, which are expected as early as next week, do not match team members, no one is necessarily exonerated. The attackers could have used condoms or might not have been team members, Nifong said. (in the Sane Nurse report the Accuser said NO Condoms were used)

"He also said he would neither announce the DNA results that were expected back from a State Bureau of Investigation lab next week nor announce any evidence before a trial."(wait!!! he announced what he said the Rap exam revieled)

and this from another lawyer

"He seems to want to proceed as far as he can, whether the evidence is there or not," said Arnold Loewy, a criminal law professor at the University of North Carolina's School of Law, who added that Mr. Nifong's early public comments on the case seemed to be unorthodox.

So before you start making comments like you did about the defense you might want to look at all the facts first.

I practice law in this part... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

I practice law in this part of the world, and I can tell you with certainty, other lawyers here do not think highly of Mr. Nifong, or his legal acumen.

This investigation was way more rushed than any similar case, due to the obvious: the politics in this racially divided city.

He should be disbarred based on what we now know.

Oh and how could we forget ... (Below threshold)
GrochoNC:

Oh and how could we forget this one
April 10, 2006
News & Observer
In interviews March 27 and 28, Nifong made several statements that helped transform the case into a national story. Elaborating on the accuser's description of the attack, he compared the incident to the quadruple homicide in an Alpine Road townhouse and multiple cross burnings that outraged the city last year. Nifong said all three cases were serious enough that he would prosecute them personally.
He implied that members of the lacrosse team were engaging in a conspiracy of silence.
"I would like to think that somebody [not involved in the attack] has the human decency to call up and say, 'What am I doing covering up for a bunch of hooligans?' " he said.
Nifong expressed confidence that the DNA would be important to filing charges. "By next week, we'll know precisely who was involved," he said shortly after the samples were taken. "I'm trying to be as honest and as straightforward as I can without jeopardizing the case, without being unfair to any person," Nifong said.
As far as the election goes, Nifong said two weeks ago that the rape investigation was taking away from his nights, the time he has been using to campaign.
"People expect me to do my job with respect to the cases and not to run for office anyway," Nifong said. "Publicity, like anything else, is a two-edged sword. It can help in certain respects, and it can hurt in certain respects. Personally, I could live without it."
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/427243.html

I can honestly say Nifong went beyond rational when he said all these things which really got it to be a national story.

For all those who think Duk... (Below threshold)

For all those who think Duke University should not have expelled the LAX players accused of rape, let's look at this another way.

What if your daughter attended a university where a male student was accused of a violent rape? Would you want that student to remain on campus? Would you want that guy sitting next to your daughter in class, or walking down the sidewalks behind her? If that accused rapist then raped your daughter, wouldn't you ask why he was still on campus? Wouldn't you hold Duke University responsible and try to get some financial justice from the university?

Let's be realistic here. Sure, there is the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing here, but we're not talking about three guys accused of public urination. We're talking about three guys accused of a brutal rape and physical assault. And one of the guys had attacked and beaten a random man a few months prior to the alledged rape.

Duke University didn't have any choice but to suspend or expel the students.

Only vile ignorant peopl... (Below threshold)

Only vile ignorant people with no CARE for the real truth will accept this kind of dirty, vile tactics from the defense

Well, geez, I guess then I work with a bunch of vile ignorant Deputy District Attorneys who all are embarrassed to hell by Nifong's unprofessional behavior.

Darleen.... I guess they're... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Darleen.... I guess they're embarrassed because Mike Nifong is prosecuting those 3 rich white DUKE UNIVERSITY students on the word of a black stripper... HOW DARE HIM!!

Having consenual sex is leg... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Having consenual sex is legal. Rape is a crime!! You know, couples do have sex together and a person can have sex with anyone they choose to. It doesn't matter whether a person take their clothes off and choose to**** ten men a day, but when you say no, damned no means no. So, don't come with the attitude "she's just a stripper", like she can't be raped. No one deserves to be raped.

justice58,I see yo... (Below threshold)
GrochoNC:

justice58,

I see you have no comment but to play the race card now.

Lets see why other attorneys might be ashamed of Nifongs actions. actually lets hear from lawyers that have spoke out.

http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2006/05/duke-lacrosse-scandal-da-mike-nifong.html
" Without getting into too detailed of a bill of particulars, he (Nifong) has violated, not one but likely, several ethical rules. There is little doubt at this point as to his egregious and systematic violation of the rule against publicly commenting on matters likely to be tried in court. Not only is he tainting the jury pool by trying the case in the media, he is using the opportunity to do so to make arguments to the jury pool that he could not make in court. Calling the defendants 'hooligans', suggesting that innocent people do not need lawyers and inviting the inference of guilt from the silence of the accused are things that would bring instant and vigorous rebuke if uttered in open court and could potentially be grounds for mistrial or contempt of court.
[...]
Nifong also likely violated the rule against directly contacting persons represented by counsel when police went to interview the team members at their dorm. A basic legal principle is that a person cannot do through the use of an agent what he himself cannot do personally. Caselaw I have seen suggests that this is the principal applied where a prosecutor uses or encourages police to question suspects represented by counsel. The circumstances suggest that Nifong sent officers to get information he desperately needed in order to go forward with his indictments. Indeed, Nifong himself has been quick to tell us that he is the one directing the investigation, not police. This conduct is a serious matter and typically leads to reprimand or sanction in the state where I live.
[...]
Nifong, also likely violated the rule that requires prosecutors to pursue charges only were they personally believe that the accused has committed a crime and not simply because they believe they can secure a conviction. Many prosecutors try to avoid this duty by being agnostic or simply not thinking about it. However, Nifong went beyond that and took a position of willful ignorance by refusing to consider or even look at the exculpatory evidence presented to him by defense attorneys. Willful ignorance is not a defense to any guilty act and, even if the defendants did commit a rape, Nifong violated the rule by consciously shielding himself from any evidence that might have made him think twice about his decision to prosecute."

and that was just from one lawyer they have several others that have said basically the same thing.

Now about this racial/monitary comment you stated.
Nifong turned it into that not the players. there was a comment yelled out AFTER insults were yelled out at the players by the accuser and the other "Escort". and as far as that email It was not a racial comment it was an quote from a movie that was in the curriculum at the school. It was in bad taste but it was not racial. So the only people i see making it racial is Nifong (see my previous post) and you and a few other extremious.

justiceUh, why do ... (Below threshold)

justice

Uh, why do you assume that the DDA's I work with are all white??

First off, the photo-lineup was botched. Secondly, the DNA tests came back negative to any of the LAX players. Not ONE of my issuing DDA's would have filed without some definitive circumstantial evidence to substantiate the complaintant's claim.

Just a few months ago, one of my DDA's who HAD filed a sex assault case against a man dismissed the charges when the DNA sample came back and WAS NOT A MATCH to the defendant. That's what honest DDA's do.

Stop getting your idea of how the day-to-day criminal justice system works from Nancy Grace.

What if your daughter at... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

What if your daughter attended a university where a male student was accused of a violent rape? Would you want that student to remain on campus?

No. But since the university has to worry about BOTH parties' rights and not just one party's rights, it's a more than mildly irrelevant point.

Would you want that guy sitting next to your daughter in class, or walking down the sidewalks behind her? If that accused rapist then raped your daughter, wouldn't you ask why he was still on campus? Wouldn't you hold Duke University responsible and try to get some financial justice from the university?

You'd have no grounds to do so, since --- last I checked --- punishing people based on an accusation is considered to be bad.

And since there is less than no evidence behind the lie espoused by the dancer, your point is even LESS relevant.

Let's be realistic here. Sure, there is the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing here, but we're not talking about three guys accused of public urination.

"Screw the facts. It's the ALLEGATION that matters".

Hey, Over, I accuse you of killing people. You should be punished based on that. Sure, there is no evidence and all, but still...it's the ACCUSATION that matters.

Darleen.... I guess they're embarrassed because Mike Nifong is prosecuting those 3 rich white DUKE UNIVERSITY students on the word of a black stripper... HOW DARE HIM!!

They're embarrassed that such an absurdly weak case was actually brought to this point and has yet to be dropped.

Having consenual sex is legal. Rape is a crime!!

The ironic part is that some of the few people who DIDN'T leave DNA inside her were the accused. You can't even prove SEX occurred --- much less rape.

It doesn't matter whether a person take their clothes off and choose to**** ten men a day, but when you say no, damned no means no. So, don't come with the attitude "she's just a stripper", like she can't be raped. No one deserves to be raped.

How about prove she had sex with somebody at the party first before going to proving she was raped.

But, hey, nice of you to assume that all DA's are white. Not too racist.
-=Mike

It seems to me that this is... (Below threshold)
Ken:

It seems to me that this is now a case of trying to let go of the tiger without being eaten. The DA made a big mistake/miscalculation on this and has to get out without being disbarred or personally taken to the cleaners by the players.

I think the only thing saving the DA is the probation situation of one of the players. I think the DA has convinced the player that the probation violation can be turned into something very big if he won't go along with letting/getting the DA out of this.

Wonder if the defense lawyers are going to "rope a dope" this to get the DA to overplay his hand even more to make a malicious prosecution case easier to prove? It'd be risky to toy with a case like this, but let's see if the defense actually does its best to get it dismissed, or just maneuvers aroung the edges. Have any of the motions been a request to dismiss?

Overworm: Would yo... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

Overworm:

Would you stand by your claims, if the accused were black?

Here's a thought---what if a group of black males had been accused of violent crimes on campus. Would you stand by your position that the only thing that the university can or should do is expel them, on the grounds of public safety?

Somehow, I think not.

Well, justice58 is living p... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Well, justice58 is living proof that race hustlers like jesse and sharpton will always have a captive audience, even after tawanna brawley.

before this is over, your darling of human rights nifong should be out of a job and the right to practice law.

Sharpton doesn't do rape ca... (Below threshold)
ClashCityRocker:

Sharpton doesn't do rape cases anymore, not since he was burned by the Brawly case. Jesse came and made promises he'll never keep (as usual)So who does thsi girl have left supporting her, The New Black Panther Party, and their man Shabaz. I almost feel sorry for her, but she brought this on herself, with the help of Nifong, who if you look at, looks more like a person looking for a book deal and an early retirment, and maybe even a permanent spot on Nancy "Never believe a defendent" Grace's shoutfest.

In the NYTimes they had ano... (Below threshold)
GrochoNC:

In the NYTimes they had another article on the case. I thought this was interesting in it.

"Mr. Vann said Mr. Nifong could drop the case, but the political price would be high. "He'd have hell to pay from the African-American community," he said. "They'd say, 'Give her her day in court. What do you have to lose? If you lose, at least the jury made the decision.' So he's kind of stuck.""

Who is mr. Vann?
"H. Wood Vann, a lawyer in Durham who once represented the woman(accuser) in a joy-riding case and has also done general legal work for her parents."

Where to begin? The "spin" ... (Below threshold)
justice59:

Where to begin? The "spin" spouted by the defense is whirling straight out of the documents turned over to them by Nifong. I will grant that some are going out on a limb with their seeming assumptions that the accuser is a stupid, drug-addled whore who is so beaten down by the sad state of her wretched existence that she can't distinguish any one of her real, self-imposed violations from those that she has imagined to have been done by upstanding young me. However, the limbs of that sapling are quickly turning to tall, strong oak. Where is Mr. Niffong now? I guess he's learning what happens when you get into bed with stupid whores.

Ken,The piece that... (Below threshold)
JohnMc:

Ken,

The piece that will be interesting to watch will be after the case have been either completed or thrown out. That's when I would expect the State AG's office, if they are on the ball, to conven their own grand jury on Nifong. If they do I don't expect the result to be pretty.

If the defense then goes into civil court, I think that they would split the case and only use the two defendants that have no blemish on their record. I would suspect that the lawyers might have a good chance of bankrupting Nifong. Would they not go on two tracks --1) Professional Malfeasance, 2) Persoanl persecution unrelated to his professional conduct vis a vis a political campaign using the three defendants as props to win.

It's going to get a lot nastier before this is thru.

[i][b]The OLD SOUTH'S way o... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

[i][b]The OLD SOUTH'S way of justice is over. It seems to me that YOU people want (you know who you are) this case to disappear because it's a poor black woman and rich wealthly white guys, so you have chosen to only hear their side and DAMN to the rest of the story.[/b][/i]

Whoever you are, it seems to me this particular "escort" (a/k/a "prostitute") earned $400 for dancing five minutes. That amounts to $4,800 per hour, which is more money than most of their fathers make. LOL

This isn't a "poor black woman". This is an ex-con with a criminal record who was a one-woman crime spree and who was thrown out of the Navy, and had TWO children with another man while she was married, and who works in a sexually oriented business.

[b][i]The attorney's want you to believe that it's not about race and that's a bald faced LIE. This is one of the reasons that RACE RELATIONS is so terrible here in this country.[/i][/b]

They certainly is, isn't they!?! But, please answer for me the difference between WHITE rape and BLACK rape. If it's about race, there must be a difference. Yes?

Overworm,I should se... (Below threshold)
scsiwuzzy:

Overworm,
I should send my child to a school that presumes guilt until proven innocent? With the primary qualifiers being gender and skin pigment?

Breaking news: local well-... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Breaking news: local well-respected lawyer may challenge Nifong as write-in candidate.

I used to work with the guy. He would make Durham proud again. He's law and order, but unlike Nifong, he's very smart, and ethical.

Notice how all the lawyers posting here see it one way, and the know-nothings like Justice58 post on the other side. The problem for the K.N.'s is that the credibility of the prosecutions two chief witnesses and the medical evidence are in tatters.

That's what's in the 1000+ papers produced by K.N. Nifong, that's how we know.

You guys need to get back to Bush-bashing. It's more entertaining.

Justice58, you read much?:<... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:
When the stripper "e... (Below threshold)
Betty Friedan:


When the stripper "eeny meeny miney moed" the boys out of a line up that guaranteed only Duke Lacrosse boys were chosen, to the DNA (or lack of), the boys' alibis, the 2nd stripper changing her story to profit from this scandal, the cab driver, I didn't think this case could get any weaker, but then evidence reveals that stripper lied to police about not having sex for a week, then later confessed to having sex with her boyfriend and two other men who drove her to the party, and using a "vibrator" in a performance prior to the Duke party.

And again when you think that this case couldn't get anymore ridiculous, from Nifong's own reports we find out that the police omitted important information including that the stripper claimed that the 2nd stripper, Kim Roberts Pittman, helped the boys rape her.

The stripper originally claimed that the second stripper helped with the rape!

Just when you think this case hit rock bottom, there's about 50 feet of crap, then you find a sub-basement where in the corner Mike Nifong is clutching this case like "Gulum", from the movie Lord of the Rings, clutches the "ring of power".

If Mike Nifong doesn't get disbarred after this, then there really is a corrupt system in Durham that protects rich white guys. In Nifong's case - stupid rich white guys with transparent political agendas, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Nifong can turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.

My first time agreeing with... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

My first time agreeing with Betty Friedan!!

Add to that, and amen sister, the accuser accused 3 men of raping her when she was 14, then the case got dropped before trial, due to the fact there was a good DA in that earlier case. So, this gal has a history of this sort of thing.

She should be brought up on prostitution charges, along with perjury. Guess who might go missing about the time Mr. Nifong's great case comes up for trial??? She and her vibrator will be on the express bus out of town, I bet.

She also dropped the number... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

She also dropped the number of attackers from somewhere in the double-digits down to THREE.

Because 10 people and 3 people --- easy mistake to make.
-=Mike

Listen up....I choose to wa... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Listen up....I choose to wait and hear all the evidence in court. I'm not buying the BS spin from the defense. The duke 3 are not so "innocent" as you think. They were on a collision course to HELL and the university gave them a free pass to do so. The neighbors were tired of them having drunken parties, urinating out of windows, and hiring women to take off their clothes. They should have been raised better by their parents to respect women. Something happened in that house that night and that's why they all hauled azz out of there. These duke 3 are responsible for their own actions and ERECTIONS. The victim deserves her day in court and that WILL happen. The truth will come out and we'll all see if they're so "innocent".....CAPEESH

justice58,"I'm not... (Below threshold)
GrochoNC:

justice58,

"I'm not buying the BS spin from the defense."
do you mean the court documents they filed in a motion??? You think they would put ON RECORD a "bs spin"

Now as far as the "hauled azz" and your comments on something happened and they are not innocent I will give you that yes they did leave in a hurry and yes they were not innocent. Not innocent in underage drinking and yes noise(which was thrown out today in court) and yes they were stupid and ordered strippers (this was only time that we know of they did this) so when Kim calls the cops because of the language thrown at her the boys did leave. They thought they would get in trouble about the drinking and noise. (not just Duke LAX players have that attitude. Look at underage drinking and noise complaints stats from any college including NCCU and you would not be suprised that they would head out when told the cops were coming).

SO yes they are not angels, unfortunately a greater amount of kids at that age these days are not, hell look at all the "girls gone wild" "wild party girls" etc.. videos out there of kids that same age going to far. Yes I think parents should have taught there kids a more moral attitude but it's not JUST the Duke LAX players its going on in every college and University out there where kids have there "freedom" from parents and this is there first chance at living on there own.

By the way, a bunch of coll... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

By the way, a bunch of college kids hiring stippers for a party is pretty tame stuff. It's not like they were soliciting prostitution (although, it looks like the accuser was in the business, unknown to the kids).

If you are shocked and outraged, I doubt you have been to college, or if you have, you were a geek and a loser. Liberal. Loser. Ok, I'm being redundant here.

Justice58, most of the evidence is out with the production of documents--the hospital records, witness statements and police investigation, and DNA evidence--and what is out there is ample to make a decision whether this is a wise prosecution.

It isn't. Read the record and explain how this is a good case. You can't. And it isn't.

Justice58 said: "The ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Justice58 said: "The victim deserves her day in court and that WILL happen."

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. She doesn't have a day in court here. She is not the one on trial in this case. The three Duke students are the accused, they are the ones who are on trial and they are the ones who are to receive a "day in court". In our judicial system, they are presumed innocent until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is a criminal court matter. The victim is merely a witness at this point. She does not have any presumption of any right to a day in court IN THIS CASE.

If the DA or judge determines that the evidence is lacking for a conviction or that there is significant exculpatory evidence, then they have a duty to dismiss it. These men are paying huge amounts of money in legal fees, and if the evidence doesn't warrant a conviction then the court has a duty to dismiss the charges.

Again, she is not the one on trial. She is not facing imprisonment in this matter, they are. Her rights are not in question, the Bill of Rights is there for the protection of the accused not the accuser.

If and probably when she files suit it will then be in civil court. That's when she will have her day in court. But that is a different matter completely separate from the current trial. In that case she would be a plaintiff and they would be the defendent's. Then she has is allowed her day in court. But not now.

"I'm not buying the BS spin from the defense."
You may call it BS Spin, but the defense has the right to vigorously defend their client. They are producing their motions from the evidence given to them from the DA. It's called disclosure. The prosecution is required by law to provide the defense with every scrap of evidence it has.

The defense is allowed to file motions for dismissal based on that evidence if it can be shown to have infringed on the rights of the accused, or there is exculpatory evidence.

That is exactly what the defense is doing.

"The duke 3 are not so "innocent" as you think."

Finally, whatever bad acts these guys have done outside of the charges is irrelevent to the charges. It wouldn't matter if one of these guys was a convicted serial rapist. That fact would have no legal relevence to THIS case. The prosecution would have very limited rights for presenting that to the jury. In fact doing so improperly is grounds for a mistrial or appeal.

Mitchell...... This case ha... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Mitchell...... This case has not been decided in a court of law, yet!! I hate to burst your little bubble BUT, it will proceed on to trial and a jury will decided on the outcome. There is no one-sided justice here. We have a legal system in place in this country and d*m*t we're going to use it. Like I said before, "The Old South's way of justice is over. Oh yes, I've been to college and my parents did an excellent job teaching me morals. I didn't have drunken parties and I didn't urinate off the porch. Don't hate on me because I'm keeping it real. Mike Nifong can't try this case in the media, so you assume he has nothing... I beg to differ.

Don't let the duke 3 make y... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Don't let the duke 3 make you hang your head in shame, presuming that they are "innocent"... telling you that the charges are "FANTASTIC LIES", SORRY, but I don't buy the BS. They didn't run away that night because of underage drinking, pleaseeeeee, give me a f*****g break!! They tried to cover their azz after what happened to the victim!!.

Listen up....I choose to... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Listen up....I choose to wait and hear all the evidence in court. I'm not buying the BS spin from the defense. The duke 3 are not so "innocent" as you think. They were on a collision course to HELL and the university gave them a free pass to do so.

Now, will mr Justice here notice the inconsistency in his first full sentence and in the conclusion of this pseudo-paragraph? I bet not.

The neighbors were tired of them having drunken parties, urinating out of windows, and hiring women to take off their clothes.

They acted like --- a house full of college guys? GET THE HECK OUT! Drunken parties? On a college campus? That NEVER HAPPENED.

Public urination AT COLLEGE? Geez, when did THAT happen.

Strippers at parties? WHOA! WHOA!

They should have been raised better by their parents to respect women.

And the stripper should've been raised to not get naked in a room full of men. But that's parenting for you.

These duke 3 are responsible for their own actions and ERECTIONS.

Jail time for sexual arousal? Man, you ARE old-school.

The victim deserves her day in court and that WILL happen. The truth will come out and we'll all see if they're so "innocent".....CAPEESH

1) Learn to spell
2) Her case has already been shot to heck. Nifong made it public, covered up evidence, and is now dealing with the problem.

I hate to burst your little bubble BUT, it will proceed on to trial and a jury will decided on the outcome.

I doubt it'll get that far. Judges can EASILY throw this joke of a persecution out.

There is no one-sided justice here. We have a legal system in place in this country and d*m*t we're going to use it. Like I said before, "The Old South's way of justice is over. Oh yes, I've been to college and my parents did an excellent job teaching me morals.

So, you went to parties? That alone isn't moral.

Don't hate on me because I'm keeping it real. Mike Nifong can't try this case in the media, so you assume he has nothing... I beg to differ.

"Keeping it real".

OK.

You're less "Street" than Sesame Street.
-=Mike

Justice58 said: "Mike... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Justice58 said: "Mike Nifong can't try this case in the media, so you assume he has nothing... "

Then how do you explain this...


"Early on, Nifong gave at least 50 interviews to the media in which he insisted that the victim's injuries were consistent with a sexual assault. Before a grand jury had heard the allegations Nifong publicly said he believed the woman and appealed for the lacrosse players to say what happened."

Two teammates, Collin Finnerty, 19, and Reade Seligmann, 20, were indicted April 17 on charges of first-degree rape and kidnapping.

Nifong publicly discussed some of his views on the evidence, particularly the lack of DNA evidence."

He gave 50 interviews in which he discussed evidence, and called the accused hooligans. That is what is called trying the case in the media.

This comment comes from New... (Below threshold)
ZVONOLOGIST:

This comment comes from New Orleans. Whether this case is heard in court or dismissed it needs to be done quickly. Dragging it out is not fair to either party. The accuser needs to get on with her life ( whatever that may be ) and the accused even more so. To postpone the case till next year is ludicrous. If I was the judge, I would give them till October to prepare.
What I do find egregious, is NAACP, declaring that they would pay the college tuition for this lady EVEN IF HER ALLEGATIONS ARE FOUND TO HAVE HAD NO MERIT. I know black people carry a lot of baggage from what they percieve as old injustices but that should not blind them into thinking "now is our turn to get back at the crackers". This holding on to old grudges no matter how valid, only hold people back, as witness old grudges between Israelis and Palestinians, Serbs and Bosnians and Catholics and Protestans in Ireland.
In the long run only justice and truth should be rewarded. Shame on NAACP. And this goes for Jesse Jackson too. When New Orleans held their mayoral elections, Jesse proclaimed he would challenge the election as unconstitutional and unfair NO MATTER WHO WON WHITE OR BLACK. However, now that a black was re-elected ( yes with a deciding white majority of votes ), Mr. Jackson has suddenly decied he thinks the election is legitimate. He was celebrating with Mr. Nagin. Shame on you Mr. Jackson. You are not of the same cloth as Rev. ML King.
Zvonologist

Justice58 bleats <blockquot... (Below threshold)

Justice58 bleats

BUT, it will proceed on to trial and a jury will decided on the outcome.
which demonstrates his/her complete ignorance of the justice system.

Nifong has to make it past the preliminary hearing FIRST...where he has to put on enough evidence to have the judge decide whether or not to go forward. And if the defense decides to put on an affirmative defense...watch the sparks fly!

challenge to justice58... (Below threshold)

challenge to justice58

From the facts revealed so far, give us ONE BIT OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE to substantiate the complaining party's claim.

Where is the DNA? Where is the eye witness(es)? How come Nifong refused to let the three team captains take lie detector tests like they offered right away? How come Nifong refused to even look at phone and atm records that provide an alibi for at least one of the accused? How come Nifong had to be forced by a judge to turn over discovery? Why did Nifong go to a grand jury and not file the charges directly himself?

You have a complaining party that can offer no evidence... NONE ... to substantiate her claim of rape -- no physical evidence, no credible witness -- and her own credibility appears to be easily impeachable.

No honest DDA would EVER take this case to court.

AND I would wager that the young men involved in this case will even seek a finding of factual innocence .. have their arrest records sealed and the case destroyed.

And let's get something else straight, cluelessaboutjustice58 ... no matter how crass or vulger the LAX jocks have been, that has no relevance to the case.

Unless of course, you are like the little collectivist racist quoted in Newsweek that doesn't CARE if they are innocent.. they should be convicted and tossed into prison ANYWAY as "pay back."

You've already shown your own racist bona fides. Is that where you've decided to fester?

Lookie here Darleen...... I... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Lookie here Darleen...... It's going all the way to trial and no judge will throw it out... I guess, just wishful thinking on your part. No harm done, because everybody has a dream.

Justice58 said: "Mike... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Justice58 said: "Mike Nifong can't try this case in the media, so you assume he has nothing... "

Mike Nifong also cannot misrepresent the evidence.

1) Nifong said in several interviews after no DNA was found, "I would not be surprised if condoms were used." . The accuser had already told investigators that condoms weren't used. Nifong knew that but mentioned condoms anyway.

2) Nifong told Newsweek that toxicology tests would show that a date rape drug may have been used. But he had no evidence of that since no toxicology tests had been performed and he knew that. "Authorities have said a doctor and specially trained nurse performed a physical exam on the accuser that found evidence of sexual assault. But the nurse who filled out a report on that exam indicted no toxicology tests were performed, according to the defense motion."

3) Contrary to what Justice58 says about the Lacrosse members running to cover their azz. On the day after the incident the police went to the house and were shown around and assisted by the occupents including one of the accused, Evans. They also spent 3 hours down at the police station being questioned without attorneys present. But Nifong told the media that the lacrosse team "were putting up a blue wall of silence" and threatened to arrest them for accessory to rape and kidnapping if they didn't come forward.

4) Seligmann has an alibi and a taxi driver is witness to his alibi. After the cabbie came public he was arrested on a three year old shoplifting warrant. The lead investigator in the Duke Rape case was also the arresting officer in the arrest of the cabbie. Why? According to the cabbie the first question the officer asked him was about the Duke case. When the cabbie didn't answer he was arrested on the shoplifting charge. Why? A conviction of the cabbie before the Duke Case would allow the DA to move to disqualify the cabbie as a witness and disqualify Seligmann's alibi.

Darleen... You know very we... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Darleen... You know very well that Mike Nifong did not have to be forced by a judge to turn over the discovery. The dna (dave evans) was found UNDER the victim's fingernail, and you know darn well, lie detector tests are NOT admissible in court. There is no machine that can detect whether one is being truthful or lying!! It's all BS Darleen, and you know it. Pleaseeeee, tell me something else that makes sense and no name calling.... you hear!! I'm still gonna "rally round the sista".

justice58, you aren't a law... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

justice58, you aren't a lawyer clearly, and don't know what you're talking about. Wishful thinking is all you and Nifong have for crying out loud.

So, you're argument is "this case should go to trial because we don't know what all the evidence is" but you also believe "the duke3 are not innocent." So, why do you feel you need a trial if you've already figured it out.

Are you omniscient? Are you clairvoyant? Because virtually no other lawyer who has looked at this case would agree with you.

Darlene, MikeSC, and Eric have done a devastating take down of your fact-free and law-free arguments.

Bud, the more you write, the clearer it is you're out of your depth. Better to hold your tongue than to prove to the world you're a fool. My Momma taught me that one.

OK, OK, OK. I get it. Jus... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

OK, OK, OK. I get it. Justice58, that's pretty good.

You had me going there for a minute. There's no way you are serious. Whew, you had me. But, there's no way any sane person could believe all that. And make up those false "facts" about the dna under the nails, etc.

No way an educated, thoughtful person would believe that. Are you one of those Kos kids at the tin foil hat convention? You're just trying to get us riled up, as a joke no doubt.

Very good. J58, I'm off to another thread since this has all been a joke. Glad you've seen our point, and clearly know that your "facetious" position was accepted, at first, at face value.

You guys are hilarious. Just a stitch.

Justice58 said: "The ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Justice58 said: "The dna (dave evans) was found UNDER the victim's fingernail,..."

Again you are mistaken.

Attorney Joseph Cheshire, who represents a team captain who has not been charged, said the tests showed genetic material from a "single male source" was found on a vaginal swab taken from the accuser, but that material did not match any of the players.

"In other words, it appears this woman had sex with a male," said Cheshire, who spoke at a news conference with other defense attorneys in the case. "It also appears with certainty it wasn't a Duke lacrosse player."

Cheshire said the testing did find some genetic material from several people on a plastic fingernail found in a bathroom trash can of the house where the team held the March 13 party. He said some of that material had the "same characteristics" -- a link short of a conclusive match -- to some of the players, but not the two who have been charged with rape, kidnapping and sexual assault.

Along with the fingernail, the trash can contained cotton swabs, tissue, toilet paper and other items that would carry the DNA of people who used the bathroom, Cheshire said."

Care to guess whose bathroom trash can the fingernail was found? Evans.

So in other words the DNA test found similar but not conclusive DNA evidence pointing to the owner of the bathroom trash can in which a fingernail was found. The fingernail DNA does not even provide conclusive DNA of Evans, just some characteristics. Isn't it possible that the fingernail picked up some stray DNA from any of the personal litter in a college student's bathroom trash can?

Justice58 for someone who wants to see this concluded in court you also seem to be pretty closed minded on the evidence shown so far. You seem to be perfectly ready to convict these guys.

A lot of evidence has been disputed. Can you show any evidence that conclusively supports the claim and hasn't been disputed?

Justice58, I am jumping in ... (Below threshold)

Justice58, I am jumping in here, because you are like the one guy left trying to defend the Alamo.
And I really respect you for sticking to your guns and trying to debate the cannaille attacking you from the other side of the tracks.

Here is the deal; I don't know what happened that night, and honestly, it aint looking good for the accuser. But none of the posters here know what happened either, and you would have an easier time trying to convince Michael Jackson to leave a Chucky Cheese joint than trying to change the minds of the people posting here. Especially given the races of the accuser, and the accused. -Yes it's the race card, what else did you expect from the Field-Negro?-

A previous poster posed a rhetorical question. If the roles were reversed would every one feel the same way? Well of course they wouldn't feel the same way. You know it Justice58, I know it, and all the posters here know it. They will just never ever admit it to you, anyone that looks like the field-negro, or anyone in a public forum. So save your breath Justice, take it from someone who has tried what you are doing, you wont change one single point of view here. So get some pop-corn and just sit back and enjoy all the irony, and prevarications. I am telling you, it beats everything on T.V.

justice58Are you N... (Below threshold)

justice58

Are you Nifong's love child? There was no Dave Evans DNA found under the complaining party's FINGERNAIL.

Now, if you want to be ACCURATE, a FALSE presson nail was found in the bathroom trashcan, which contained lots of other DNA containing objects and thus while a trace dna amount could not positively exclude Evans, it didn't positively include him either (it was partial) and in light of the ease of cross contamination in the trashcan, the trace on the FALSE nail is easily impeachable if the DA is stupid enough to try and introduce it.

And that's just another DNA nail in Nifong's professional coffin. The complaining party has claimed she was held down in a tiny bathroom where she was assaulted by (last count) 3 guys...yet, even though she went to the hospital within two hours of this alledged assault - didn't change clothes, didn't shower -- not one instance of DNA transfer was found. None. Nada.

the ONLY DNA in or on this complaintent was positively identified to ONE man...her pimp boyfriend.

I didn't say that a lie detector was admissable, but USE in the investigating stage is very standard when detectives are trying to winnow out the innocent from the possible suspects. For instance, Dave Evans, who you falsely tied to DNA, was fully cooperative with the police..allowing to be questioned without an attorney and offering to take a poly...which was REFUSED by the police.

Nifong crossed beyond all professional bounds when he claimed that "guilt" of the LAX players could be assumed when they decided to get lawyers.

Again, whether it goes to trial or not is up to a JUDGE at prelim.

You can't give me one shred of unimpeachable circumstantial evidence.

I don't know what animates you, but it smells to high heaven.

The police did not go to th... (Below threshold)
justice58:

The police did not go to the house one day after the "incident", they went there 2 days later. It doesn't matter what you think, this case will proceed to trial. We don't have a system here that automatically send a person off to prison and say, damn a trial. She is a victim here and the duke 3 need to pay the price. These duke 3 think their money and high-priced lawyering can get them off. They should have kept their nose clean so they deserve what is happening to them.

Well, I see field-negro, ha... (Below threshold)

Well, I see field-negro, has shown up to lead us through why the sub-standard, non-professional behavior of Nifong should be beyond criticism and why his and j58's assumption that every poster criticizing Nifong is (1)white (2)racist.

FN, heal thyself, heel.

Field Honkey is back! What... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Field Honkey is back! What field was that you are a negro in, the field in the Hamptons???

Another clown to pair up with "justice"58. Neither of you have a law degree, but you just play a lawyer in real life! Do you sleep at Holiday Inn?

Field Honkey: race surely did play a part; I live in the Durham area and saw it all myself. Nifong needed black votes, the blacks needed a grievance, and it was a match made in Hell.

Get out of the field and back into the clinic. You got work to do.

Field Clown. Perfect name for you!

Darlene, touche. Physician... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Darlene, touche. Physician, heal thyself.

It's sad to see a person diminish themselves. I already tried to discuss it with FN in reasonable terms, but he prefers his grievances to reality.

You can be positive and a success in life, a true success, or you can act like that, and like J58, and make yourself miserable.

And don't give me any crap about not being in your shoes, because I know plenty of blacks and hispanics who are 1) positive, and 2) successful people who don't bear wasteful grudges.

Justice58That's IT... (Below threshold)

Justice58

That's IT. You are nothing but a drooling, pitchfork and rope carrying racist.

You were never interested in reality, facts or the workings of the justice system.

Fuck off you indecent creature. I hope you never are in my jurisdiction.

Darleen.... And what if I a... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Darleen.... And what if I am??? Don't get all fired up because you can't handle the truth. It hurts don't it. It's gonna hurt a lot worse for those b*st*rds from duke. The sad part is that you tried to get them off and you couldn't. NOT THIS TIME!!!!

Having followed this case c... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

Having followed this case closely from the very start, and having been on the fence for weeks waiting to see what the evidence showed, I honestly and objectively believe there was no rape or sexual assault by the players.

It simply doesn't make sense that, after the violent scene described by the alleged victim of a gang-rape and assault for almost 30 minutes, there is no DNA, no physical evidence, no witness in a house with 40 or so people in it, and the second stripper says it never happened.

Who in their right mind could believe a rape actually occurred?

It didn't. The accuser lied. Nifong saw this as his salvation for a campaign that was not competitive, and indicted three innocent people for his own ambitious political purposes.

The sooner this case is dismissed, the better.

A previous poster posed ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

A previous poster posed a rhetorical question. If the roles were reversed would every one feel the same way? Well of course they wouldn't feel the same way. You know it Justice58, I know it, and all the posters here know it. They will just never ever admit it to you, anyone that looks like the field-negro, or anyone in a public forum.

When the tables WERE turned, I felt Kobe got the shaft royally.

And what if I am??? Don't get all fired up because you can't handle the truth. It hurts don't it. It's gonna hurt a lot worse for those b*st*rds from duke. The sad part is that you tried to get them off and you couldn't. NOT THIS TIME!!!

We have facts.

You have...well, she's black. Outside of that, you don't seem to really have an argument.
-=Mike

racist58Truth I ha... (Below threshold)

racist58

Truth I handle, everyday. Little racist gangbangers like you, I get to see put in jail.

You can't handle reality, hence the retreat to collectivist feelings in lieu of rational thought.

meshugga shmuck

Darleen, that language is n... (Below threshold)

Darleen, that language is not becoming of a member of the bar, and shame on you for being so angry and not controlling your emotions :)

Now Mitchell, I am going to try to be nice to you, even though you attacked me on a very personal level. First, let's get this out of the way right now. I happen to be an attorney and a member of the oldest bar in the country -Philadelphia- an organization which some of your beloved founding fathers were members of. So get over that little piece of discomfort.

You, on the other hand, have probably never read a comic book let alone a legal one. So going back and forth with someone like you would be pointless for me. See, I happen to be a real lawyer,and you play one on conservative web sites. If you are a real lawyer; go to my site and e-mail me your bar ID#. You can't do it because you are a fraud!

As for me being a grievance junky; well, nothing could be farther from the truth. I probably have said this a thousand times on this site. But it bears repeating. I am very happy living the American dream thank you very much. And I probably make more $ than 80% of the people that post on this site. So please spare me the pull yourself up and live the American dream speech. -It's an old and tired one- Not all angry black folks are down on their luck.

I am a black man in America, and no matter how succesful I am or become, I will never forget that. Because the moment I do, people like you Mitchell will have no problem reminding me of just who I am. You see Mitchell, people of your ilk are nothing but hypocrites, who like to talk in chat rooms about how fair you are, and how you don't see race, blah blah blah. When in reality, you just wish black folks would go away. That is why people like Justice58 is having a hard time believing that if the scipt was flipped in the Duke case, you wouldn't be singing a different tune.

I agree with him, because I see right through you and everything you stand for.

BTW, if I were to see you in person and you were a black man, I would feel the same way. Because house-negroes are just as bad, if not worse, than the white people whose houses they try to protect.

Listen to me.... you are fr... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Listen to me.... you are free to think whatever you want... no " BOTOX BARBIE" like darleen will change my mind. I'm supporting the victim because she has identified her attackers and I believe her. The duke 3 should confess and maybe it will lessen their punishment!!. Oh yes, prison will not be a cake walk for them. Imagine, going to cell block C and having to face all those BLACK MEN there. They gonna get the HELL beat out of them and gonna get punked real good.

Hey field.... I am a woman.... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Hey field.... I am a woman. I am a woman in every sense. Amen brother, about the house negroes (like thomas sowel) just can't stand them.

"I'm supporting the vict... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

"I'm supporting the victim because she has identified her attackers and I believe her. The duke 3 should confess and maybe it will lessen their punishment!!. Oh yes, prison will not be a cake walk for them. Imagine, going to cell block C and having to face all those BLACK MEN there. They gonna get the HELL beat out of them and gonna get punked real good.

Posted by: justice58"

This statement sounds terribly racist!

Your only evidence that a rape occurred is that the alleged victim could not immediately give a description of any of the accused to the police, and it took six photo ID sessions for her to pick out three players from player photos?

None of these players are going to prison, because there was no crime! The stripper lied (again) thought she'd get away with it again.

Even the other stripper told police no rape ever occurred. And, then there are all of the players in the house who say no rape occurred.

The SANE nurse says no rape occurred.

Even the tortured ID process indicates no rape occurred.

Is it race that motivates you to think otherwise?

racist58You may be... (Below threshold)

racist58

You may be female, but you are no woman.

That is a title that is earned. And a female that cannot use rational thought and accept the hard fact that some females can lie about rape (just as some females are thieves, molesters or child murderers) you add to the troubles real victims of rape face.

You are contemptible.

Field Punk: NC State Bar N... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Field Punk: NC State Bar No. 13345. Idiot.

So, you aren't a field Negro after all. You're just an angry black man. Plenty of those, so nothing special there.

Maybe you can find something a bit more elevated to be proud of.

Darlene, you go girl. I like lawyers who show righteous indignation. Most of us are too jaded to care.

The Clowns, must be the Clowns, bring in the Clowns . . . J58 and FN are already hereeeee!

Field Punk: you in an inte... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Field Punk: you in an interracial marriage? I am. So, don't tell me you know anything about me.

I put my race views into practice. I am sure you are married/dating an angry little black gal who can stroke your unhappy ego.

Ass.

field negroracist5... (Below threshold)

field negro

racist58 says

I'm supporting the victim because she has identified her attackers and I believe her.
Want to tell me the difference between racist58 and those white people who convicted the Scottsboro boys on nothing more than the sayso of one white woman?

I am no racist at all, just... (Below threshold)
justice58:

I am no racist at all, just tired of the injustice being done to this woman. The media attacking her, posting her picture on the internet, digging into her private life and people on this cite that are racists thugs themselves, posting her tax information on the internet and harassing her parents to no end. I've had it and I am very angry. Leave her parents alone. They are standing by their daughter and so am I.

Darleen... YOU maybe female... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Darleen... YOU maybe female but I KNOW that you're no woman. That why you have chosen to do that line of work that you're in. RUN WITH BOYS and act like them too. (I get cha) I know females lie about rape sometimes BUT, not in this case. It's so funny how you all love to bring up the Scottsboro Boys now. YOU HYPOCRITES!!!

Is that Clown "Sista" Justi... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Is that Clown "Sista" Justice58 posting again!! That wacky broad.

Black + Accusation=No Proof Needed! Yee Haw!

You are a Logician Magician, Sister! Git dem honkeys, Girl!!

Now Mitchell, I am going... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Now Mitchell, I am going to try to be nice to you, even though you attacked me on a very personal level. First, let's get this out of the way right now. I happen to be an attorney and a member of the oldest bar in the country -Philadelphia- an organization which some of your beloved founding fathers were members of. So get over that little piece of discomfort.

Congrats be to you.

As for me being a grievance junky; well, nothing could be farther from the truth. I probably have said this a thousand times on this site. But it bears repeating. I am very happy living the American dream thank you very much. And I probably make more $ than 80% of the people that post on this site. So please spare me the pull yourself up and live the American dream speech. -It's an old and tired one- Not all angry black folks are down on their luck.

Nor are all lawyers well-educated or even terribly enlightened.

I am a black man in America, and no matter how succesful I am or become, I will never forget that. Because the moment I do, people like you Mitchell will have no problem reminding me of just who I am. You see Mitchell, people of your ilk are nothing but hypocrites, who like to talk in chat rooms about how fair you are, and how you don't see race, blah blah blah. When in reality, you just wish black folks would go away.

Whew. I'm glad you don't fall back to racist stereotyping. I'm truly happy about that.

That is why people like Justice58 is having a hard time believing that if the scipt was flipped in the Duke case, you wouldn't be singing a different tune.

I thought Kobe was screwed over. So, take your bigotry and go elsewhere with it.

I agree with him, because I see right through you and everything you stand for.

Never mind the massive, rampant, and borderline comical legal problems with the case?

Well, thank God you're not MY lawyer.

BTW, if I were to see you in person and you were a black man, I would feel the same way. Because house-negroes are just as bad, if not worse, than the white people whose houses they try to protect.

Yes, how dare those black folks have ideas that you don't agree with?

Y'all are all a bunch of mind-numbed automatons, right?

Right?

I'm supporting the victim because she has identified her attackers and I believe her.

Even though one, definitively, was not there and the other hasn't ever had a mustache.

And what about the original 10 or so she ORIGINALLY claimed raped her? What about those guys?

And you are aware that her identification will be thrown out, right? That whole "line-up without anybody who WASN'T on Duke Lacrosse" problem is going to be stumbling block.

Heck, I seem to remember Susan Smith saying that a black man carjacked her car years ago and kidnapped her children. I guess you COMPLETELY believed that story.

Oh yes, prison will not be a cake walk for them. Imagine, going to cell block C and having to face all those BLACK MEN there. They gonna get the HELL beat out of them and gonna get punked real good.

Wow, Field negro says blacks are mind-numbed automatons. Justice says they're a bunch of savages.

Man, who the heck needs racists when we have "black" members here who live up to the idiotic stereotypes.

Kudos!

I am no racist at all, just tired of the injustice being done to this woman. The media attacking her, posting her picture on the internet, digging into her private life and people on this cite that are racists thugs themselves, posting her tax information on the internet and harassing her parents to no end. I've had it and I am very angry. Leave her parents alone. They are standing by their daughter and so am I.

I've yet to see her face. Care to link to a pic of her face? Or her tax info. I'd love to see the link for that.

Or...you could just admit you made this up.

And what about the innocent guys? What about THEM? You know, the guys who some dancer decided to simply go after because --- and I'm sure this is QUITE a coincidence --- they have the richest parents. Weird, huh? Their face has been plastered all over the place in spite of an utter lack of any factual basis.

I know females lie about rape sometimes BUT, not in this case. It's so funny how you all love to bring up the Scottsboro Boys now. YOU HYPOCRITES!!!

Care to explain the differences in the case?
-=Mike

This thread is a Diabolical... (Below threshold)
virgo1:

This thread is a Diabolical Deniacs Dream..

MikeSC: guess we're not me... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

MikeSC: guess we're not members of that exhalted Philadelphia lawyers' posse.

Hey, what did W.C. Fields say about Philadelphia lawyers . . . hmmm? He was right, you know.

I love to torture the Clowns. Drives 'em crazy. If only the reasonable people posted that would be no fun. Nah.

Down with The Man! Power to the Peeps! Tupac became Onepac because of the Honkey Honkey!!

Idiots.

I am a black man i... (Below threshold)
I am a black man in America, and no matter how succesful I am or become, I will never forget that.
house-negroes are just as bad, if not worse, than the white people whose houses they try to protect.
Racism is the basest form of collectivism. It posits that individual elements of character and talent can be attributed to levels of melanin. It makes no difference that "race" is a biological myth - the appeal of racism is rooted in a desire of the individual racist to lay claim to the best talents of those that look like him/her and to denigrate other individuals based on the perceived failings of those that look like The Other.

This is quite clear in the statements above. No one is more obsessed with House's "blackness" than house himself. He is, factually, an American male of African ancestry with more melanin than most. His geneology try, more than likely, contains paler cousins AND may indeed contain no tie at all with chattel slavery (there were paler slaves in the world and the new world too...something that racists such as HN and 58 cannot allow to disturb their collectivist groupthink). HN, by his own admission, has succeeded in a society he believes is personally out to "get him" ... he thus, through racist pathology, claims a "victim" status.

When some spoiled Hollywood celebrity, surrounded by luxury, cries "but you have no idea how I've SUFFERED" most people roll their eyes and say "yeah, right." HN plays the "poor me" and expects a better reception because he attempts to legitimatize his victim status by pimping his enriched melanin appearance. HN also believes that melanin level is indicative of an "authentic" political ideology. Thus the individual who disagrees with HN's politics is not merely mistaken or sincerely believes. It is much more insidious. The individual who disagrees with HN is either the evil hated Other, or a "race" traitor. HN so buys into racist ideology he cannot accept his success as his own, but tears himself up with having to prove his authentic victim status over and over again.

racist58 is cruder than HN, and even more racist. Facts, reality, reasoning ... ALL are secondary than showing a "solidarity" with only those individuals that look like racist58. "She" cannot help but engage in PeeWee Herman "I know what you are, but what am I" schtick as response. She is a varation on a theme, Madam LaFarge in gangsta fashion, proud of her ignorance because she, too, claims an anointed status as "eternal victim" and all The Other must pay her and allow her to live unimpeded as she fakes reality.

What motivates racists, including HN and 58, is fear. Fear of being wholly responsible for their own lives. Fear of being found out as frauds. Fear that makes them cling to melanin levels as an indication of character and talent, worthiness and justice.

there are only two races -- the decent and the indecent ~~Viktor Frankl

"What motivates racists,... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

"What motivates racists, including HN and 58, is fear. Fear of being wholly responsible for their own lives. Fear of being found out as frauds. Fear that makes them cling to melanin levels as an indication of character and talent, worthiness and justice.

Posted by: Darleen"

What is truly scary about justice58, if he really IS an attorny, is not just his English but his complete collapse into the trough of racism as he exclaims that he supports the prostitute in the Duke case because she identified her attackers.

Of course, she couldn't give the police descriptions of them when she was first interviewed, and it took six individual sessions with her viewing players' photos to finally decide who raped her for thirty minutes in a small bathroom. But, by golly, she finally picked three who were actually AT the party at some time. (She blew it on Seligmann and Evans, but Justice58 will ignore that the same way he ignores the meaning of the scales of blind Justice.)

If someone said they "supported" the accused players because they were white, no doubt justice58 would come unhinged over racism and bigotry in the extreme. I'd actually agree with him (or her). But, essentially, he's saying the same thing about the accuser.

So, conversely, if she COULDN'T correctly identify all three of her attackers, then justice58 is saying that she's lying?

Ignore the fact that nobody got raped or assaulted that night, and that there's not a single piece of evidence that indicates such a crime even occurred. What's important to justice58 is some misguided solidarity with a criminal because she eventually was shamed into picking three attackers, two of which are bad identifications.

I grieve for our country if we've come no further since the Civil War.

If this is what the Philadelphia Bar considers brilliant legal philosophy, then they're in more trouble than I thought.

Ok Mithcell so you took a p... (Below threshold)

Ok Mithcell so you took a peak at your lawyers bar card. At lwast I hope you did and you are not a real lawyer, because if you are indicative of lawyers in NC, that state is in some serious trouble! First, my man, you need to work on your vocabulary. I am sure you can come up with better words than idiot, and punk. Whew! But then maybe you can't.

Glad to hear you are in an interacial marriage. Yeah,some of my best friends are white :) Give me a break. You are a tired, pathetic, racist. And I could care less if you were married to the Queen of Sheba or Grace Jones; you have some issues.
Now go iron your sheets and leave me alone.
Or better yet, go and read some law books or something ,or try to get some CLE's in. If you are a lawyer as you claim, I am sure you need the help, becuase from the looks of your post, you aint too bright.

BTW Darleen, you kept referring to me in your declamations as a house negro. I am far from it, but I get your point.-Your talking points were right out of a black conservative play book- Oh, and try telling the people who were lynched in this country or that suffered at the hands of your beloved "Mr.Charlie" that "race is a biological myth" I think they would have something to say about that if they could.

Now if you will excuse me, I have some white people to represent in court.

FNI didn't say "ra... (Below threshold)

FN

I didn't say "race" was a cultural myth, I said it was a BIOLOGICAL one. Melanin levels are indicative of nothing but evolutionary survival traits, passed on in familial lineage.

You attempt to refute the science by spewing a CULTURAL reference.

You are so frightened by any person who LOOKS like you but may not THINK like you, you feel you must "inauthenticate" their very existance.

Regardless of your education, you are the psychological/cultural brethren of the most gap-toothed, pointy-hat KKKer or tatooed Aryan Brotherhood gangbanger around.

How nice for you. No thinking involved. Just write off people by their melanin level.

I feel for your clients, regardless of what branch of law you practice.

BTW FNDo you have ... (Below threshold)

BTW FN

Do you have any "proof" of your victim status? Got any "slave" ancestors?

I do. My great uncle has the 1697 papers when Clicks came to this country to be sold to work on a plantation in Virginia.

You are such a tool.

Whatever, FN. Your... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Whatever, FN.

Your arguments are so tired.

So Sharpton/Jackson old school.

Attack me, but don't dare look at the argument on an intellectual level. That would take effort. For such a self-described smart guy, you sure don't use that thick head of yours.

Darleen..... YOU are so pat... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Darleen..... YOU are so pathetic that it's laughable! Where did you get all that hate inside you?? You can't even control your own emotions. I FEEL really sorry for you. You are filled with so much hate that it is hard to have a conversation without you bursting a blood vessel.If a person don't agree with you or YOUR way of thinking, they are "racists". The victim had no way of knowing that these duke 3 were from wealthy families. That's in your imagination,and the rest of you included.(you know who you are).

You are filled with so m... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

You are filled with so much hate that it is hard to have a conversation without you bursting a blood vessel.If a person don't agree with you or YOUR way of thinking, they are "racists".

And now, kids, we have projection.

The victim had no way of knowing that these duke 3 were from wealthy families. That's in your imagination,and the rest of you included.(you know who you are).

You get race hustlers like Jesse Jackson on board and you can learn all kinds of things about people. I'm sure it being the richest kids was JUST a coincidence.

Seems a little funny --- especially since one of the kids wasn't even there.
-=Mike

MITCHELL..... you hate Jack... (Below threshold)
justice58:

MITCHELL..... you hate Jackson/Sharpton because they defend racial injustice on poor defenseless people??? You are a piece of work, Mr. Why do despise field-negro??? Is it because he has an education and you don't??? You don't have to hate educated blacks, you TOO can have the same education!!!.

I'm not going to bother rea... (Below threshold)
Bemused:

I'm not going to bother reading 92 comments about this. I'm going to assume that the wingnuts interested in this case would be defending the players if they were black and the dancer was white. Right? Heh.

Speaking of relevance this ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Speaking of relevance this thread has been highjacked by Justice58, FieldNegro, Darleen and Mitchell trading racial barbs.

Let's get back on topic and discuss the evidence.

Field Negro, Mitchell and Darleen you claim you are attorneys. Enlighten us with your legal knowledge of the evidence at hand.

What do you see as evidence of guilt? What do you see as exculpatory evidence?

Does reasonable doubt exist? Or is this an open and shut case? Or something in between?

What is your opinion of the way Nifong has handled this case?

I am asking this repectfully of the self proclaimed attorneys who have posted on this thread. Please act professionally.

To Bemused. Yes I would vi... (Below threshold)
Eric:

To Bemused. Yes I would view this case exactly the same way if the races were reversed.

Would you?

Liar... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Liar

Justice 58 said: "you hate ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Justice 58 said: "you hate Jackson/Sharpton because they defend racial injustice on poor defenseless people???"

Exactly. That's precisely the point.

Eric, we've tried to discuss the facts per the above, but the facts aren't important to J58, Field Negro.

Unfortunately, this case is all about race. That is all it is. There are no credible facts to make a case, and strong reasonable doubt due to lack of credibility of the accuser and her companion, as well as lack of evidence of a rape having occurred (lack of DNA evidence, documentary evidence placing 2 players away from the scene, testimony of companion of no rape/"a crock," medical evidence, Dr/Nurse statements) and the list goes on.

It's likely that Nifong will be challenged by an exemplary lawyer down here by the name of Lewis Cheek. I worked with Lewis at a large firm in Durham, and he is widely admired as being forthright, and courageous.

Unlike Nifong, the accuser, and their entourage.

Justice58 said: "Liar... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Justice58 said: "Liar"

Since you don't know me and have no basis in which to call me a liar that says a lot more about you than it does me.

I'll ask you the same question, would you treat the case the same way if the races were reversed?

Eric, you posed a resonable... (Below threshold)

Eric, you posed a resonable question so I am going to attempt to respond to you. First, as I said to Justice58 in my early post -one which my white racial demagoguing friends chose to ignore- It's not looking good for the DA down there. Simply because, in a rape case, the credibility of the accuser is extremely important. Sadly for the DA, this is not the case with this young lady. Also, thre are some time gap issues and apparent eye witness statements to the contrary of what the accuser is saying, which could prove problematic.

So honestly, I would rather be the defense attorney than the prosecutor in this case.

Having said that, there are some issues Perry Mason Mitchell, and Sandra Day Darleane forgot to mention: This is going to be a jury trial -if it gets that far- and Durham, if I recall correctly, is about 55% Af. Am. That means the jury pool will be made of of a significant amount of Af. Am's as it must represent a cross section of the community. If I were the DA, I would be counting on some sort of jury nullification (See O.J. trial) to win this case. So every hoping like hell that these boys will get off, should just fall back a little, because you never know what can happen in a court of law. (Of course you would have to actually be in a court of law to know this Mithell, and Darleane) Sorry Eric, I couldn't resist, they are such easy targets.

Anway, that's enough legal lessons from the brilliant Philly lawyer for now. Oh,one more thing; Eric, be careful when listening to people who get their legal training from FAUX News.That is not the real world, and their pundits are people like Mark Furman [sic] who helped to blow one of the biggest criminal cases in history. And their attorney's, well they couldn't try a dog catching case let alone a rape. -They are on FAUX news because of the way they look- So that's it Eric, that's my take on the case. Now didn't I keep a civil tone and try to answer your questions?

Hey, the Field-Negro is not such a bad guy once you get to know him now is he?

FieldNegro, I don't get my... (Below threshold)
Eric:

FieldNegro, I don't get my legal advice from Fox News I get my legal advice from the law firm that I work for. Thank you for responding. I think it's important for people to communicate in a civil manner. And we were able to have decent discussion of the evidence without resorting to name calling or calling someone a liar, a racist or some such nonsense.

By the way,
What are your thoughts on the police lineup procedures used on the accused? That seems highly problematic to me for the prosecution. In my opinion that alone could sink the case. What about you?

I hadn't notice Field Negro... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

I hadn't notice Field Negro give any real substantive analysis of the case until now. Where exactly was that, FN? Somewhere, above, in all the race-baiting?

Your jury nullifcation idea is nutty. What law school did you attend and is it still accredited? Jury nullifaction by a largely black jury (you acknowledge the racial mix of Durham) of white lacrosse players?

I have 15 years of trial, appellate, and transactional practice, a Masters, and I'm working on a CFP designation.

But, I'm not black! So, according to Field Negro, nothing else counts.

Foolish, and his one legal opinion here is even more foolish.

Field Negro actually did sa... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Field Negro actually did say, bless his heart:

"But none of the posters here know what happened either, and you would have an easier time trying to convince Michael Jackson to leave a Chucky Cheese joint than trying to change the minds of the people posting here. Especially given the races of the accuser, and the accused. -Yes it's the race card, what else did you expect from the Field-Negro?-"

This is all he can offer on the legal front, and it all relates back to his obsession with race. And he's accused us wizbangers of all being racist without some much as one comment about the substance of our factual and legal arguments.

Since he really has none of his own, it's tough to deal with ours.

Wizbangers 10 Field Negro 0

Eric I have to be honest, I... (Below threshold)

Eric I have to be honest, I don't know too much about what happened with the line up in this particular case. But I do know that a line up that is too suggestive would violate the due process clause. I also know that there are different standards for photo identifications, police station IDs, hospital ID's etc. Again, not sure what the case was here. But even if the line up was very suggestive. As you know, because the remedy is usually exclusion, relief is rarely granted in these matters, so we will just have to wait and see.

Eric, as to the photographi... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Eric, as to the photographic array from which the accuser picked the three students, NC law does not have any case law directly on point.

Constitutional due process concerns are implicated, and the court will be called upon to determine if the array unfairly portrayed the suspects such that it seemed to "suggest" them unfairly to the accuser. Then the court decides if there was any "harmless error" in effect, by determining whether she had sufficient time and ability to observe the suspects independantly of the lineup.

This probably will be a close case, and the court may find the law of other jurisdictions persuasive, but not dispositive, especially if a similar fact pattern presents itself.

I tend to think, based on the way our courts prefer to admit evidence and let the jury weigh its credibility, that they will not dismiss the case due to the array. But, the cases can be distinguished by showing that instead of their being an unfair "suggestion" of the particular suspect, that there was no way the the accuser could be tested as to her credibility since she was assured of picking a Duke Lacrosse player, no matter who she chose from the array.

Now, ask Field Negro what he thinks, and we can get the racial victimology view of all of this, if nothing of the legal variety.

Field Negro, you really don... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Field Negro, you really don't know much about the law, do you. Read my post and learn, Bro.

You don't know much about the facts of this case, either. But that doesn't stop you from opinining as the all powerful Black Man from Philadelphia.

If you paid more attention to the facts, rather than the race of all those involved, maybe you'd know more and sound a bit more intelligent.

Ok Eric, I tried to be civi... (Below threshold)

Ok Eric, I tried to be civil, but here comes Perry Mason AKA Mitchell with his typical moronic rant, so I must respond. Mitchell, I am not going to get into a credentials pissing match with you, because trust me, I would win. -My law school is better than your law school, I am sure of it- But then, you would only say that the reason I went to the school I went to is because of my race. Because in your narrow minded dogmatic world, a black man isn't allowed to achieve things on his merit alone.

LLM, check; Law Review, check; Moot court team, check; Master's degree, check... I could go on, but it's pointless. You're a loser, and you confirm it with every new post. BTW, it's nice to see that you have 15 years of trial experience, you must spend alot of time in the prisons down there visiting your clients.

Your analysis of the question Eric posted is indicative of just how clueless and out of touch you are with real world litigation. Honestly, I doubt if you have ever even been in a court room. So if you ever want to see a real lawyer in action, come to Philly and I will be glad to show you some things.

See, the field-negro does have a heart :)

Now go back to practicing law in Mayberry and leave me alone.

Just an observation.....</p... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

Just an observation.....

Anyone who thinks "jury nullification" is available to find a defendant guilty who is proved innocent is drinking KoolAid made in a far-off place, and knows nothing about the law.

Furr: exactly, he doesn't ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Furr: exactly, he doesn't have a clue.

He attempts to hide it with his lengthy posts, but it's pretty clear the Black Emporer has no clothes.

Sad.

Interesting, a Duke Law Pro... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Interesting, a Duke Law Prof. who investigated the matter is now calling for DA Nifong to step aside, and the appointment of a special prosecutor to bring credibility and impartiality to the case.

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/449892.html

For the edification of Field Negro and Justice 58, this professor is black. So can't play the race card re that.

Hmm. Why would the good professor want such a thing? Could it be because the case SUCKS??? Read his statements about it.

And, Field Negro, the Publisher of the News and Observer newspaper is B-L-A-C-K. So, can't criticize them, either.

Article:<a href="h... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:
While trying to stay out of... (Below threshold)
Eric:

While trying to stay out of the pissing match between FieldNegro and Mitchell, I notice that Mitchell did supply his Bar ID# and yet FieldNegro is a nameless pseudonym whose only credentials are his claims.

I may not be a lawyer but I have worked in the legal industry for some time now. So I know more than the average bear about legal procedure.

FieldNegro said: "This is going to be a jury trial -if it gets that far- and Durham, if I recall correctly, is about 55% Af. Am. That means the jury pool will be made of of a significant amount of Af. Am's as it must represent a cross section of the community. If I were the DA, I would be counting on some sort of jury nullification (See O.J. trial) to win this case. "

Even I know that FieldNegro's point about jury nullification is illogical. Why even discuss jury nullification as a possible scenario by the DA of all people?

Why would the DA seek to find the law that he is prosecuting unjust?

In short, FieldNegro is arguing that the prosecutor could seek to have a predominately black jury not render a guilty verdict against the white defendents because the jury finds the law itself unreasonable or unjust. That doesn't even begin to make any sense.

I also asked one of the attorney's in my office if it made any sense and he laughed and said no.

I also find it amazing that FieldNegro would even advocate that principle since the use of Jury Nullification has a long sordid history in the South where white juries frequently nullified the verdicts of white defendents accused of murdering blacks. Why not advocate lynching the defendents instead of giving them a trial and be done with it?

Eric, you guys are right. ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Eric, you guys are right. Although, Jury Nullification was essentially used in the O.J. case for racial purposes.

I went to Field Negro's website, and he claims to be an attorney. I don't doubt that. But, he is so taken with himself, that he can't fairly evaluate his own position. It makes him write things that are illogical--the whole idea of trying to assess the guilt or innocence of the Duke players based on race also fits the bill.

Either race has its racist bigots. It is sad to me, however, when a well-educated black lawyer could think and write these things. You would think he'd have learned enough from his own trials and tribulations not to act like those who were unfair to him.

But his "schtick" is to be the bomb thrower as you can see from his website if you click his name on this page. He's similar to Ann Coulter, just more of a racist.

But was jury nullification ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

But was jury nullification in the OJ case used by the DA or the defense? If I read his comment right, FieldNegro is suggesting the DA use Jury Nullification.

Folks;You need to ig... (Below threshold)

Folks;
You need to ignore Justice58's postings. It was on another thread under the name Poetic Justice for a number of weeks, and I read the posters over there banging their heads against the walls trying to coherently discuss the case with It. One of those posters put a link to this thread noticing the identical grammar and nonsensical comments. They all had a chuckle at your expense, seeing your frustrations trying to talk sense with It.

I get the sense that FN is of similar ilk.

Mitchell, with all do respe... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Mitchell, with all do respect. Most lawyers think their sh!t doesn't stink.

Sock Puppets?... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Sock Puppets?

Yeah. There entire argumen... (Below threshold)

Yeah. There entire argument is that the lax players are guilty and going to be convicted because:
1) The FA says they did it
2) Race card
3) The Grand Jury indicted them
4) Spoiled rich boy card
5) DNA partial match on a fingernail
6) Nuh-uh!
7) Prior notorious acts of loud parties, underage drinking, public urination
8) Liars!
9) The FA picked them out of a lineup
10) Nuh-uh!

Sorry, *their* entire argum... (Below threshold)

Sorry, *their* entire argument...

Whew, what is this, post#12... (Below threshold)

Whew, what is this, post#120? Ok, I am going to try this again so listen up.While I understand that jury nullification can work only to find a def. NOT GUILTY from a legal sense, I was merely responding to Eric's question about possible scenarios. If you will notice, I said from the out set that it doesn't look good for the prosecutor in this case, and I was trying to find ways that a jury- yes of mostly Af. Americans-could find a way to see the def's as guilty even if the evidence stacks otherwise. So yes, A SORT OF jury nullification in their minds could take place. Not from a legal sense, but the reality of how some of these Af. American jurors might be thinking and come down with their rendering.

Oh, and if you want my PA Bar ID#; e-mail me at [email protected], and I will be glad to give it to you.-That's for any of you posting here who are so concerned with the FN's credentials- I won't give it to you in this forum, not with so many members of the "Aryan brotherhood" checking in, if you know what I mean:)

BTW, my s#%t doesn't stink!

Field-negro said, "If yo... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

Field-negro said, "If you will notice, I said from the out set that it doesn't look good for the prosecutor in this case, and I was trying to find ways that a jury- yes of mostly Af. Americans-could find a way to see the def's as guilty even if the evidence stacks otherwise. So yes, A SORT OF jury nullification in their minds could take place. Not from a legal sense, but the reality of how some of these Af. American jurors might be thinking and come down with their rendering."

Reading between the lines, you're suggesting that a jury heavily populated with African Americans might find the accused guilty based solely on racial issues and in spite of evidence indicating innocence?

Call me foolish, but I can't imagine that happening. There will be some whites on the jury, and there will also be African American women who I have found, in general, to be very honest and rather religious. I cannot conceive that they would go along with the idea of convicting three innocent people, just to show racial solidarity in some misguided way.

(I would also think that, out of a jury of 12 people, at least ONE of them would go to the judge and bust the others on that kind of conspiracy.)

I don't believe there will ever be a trial, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a change of venue granted on so much pre-trial publicity. So, it may be a moot point.

But, thanks for clarifying your earlier statement.

Sundance.... You are a bald... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Sundance.... You are a bald faced LIAR about ME posting under the name POETIC JUSTICE. I post under no other name except JUSTICE58. You liar!!

Hey, PJ/J58, you skipped ar... (Below threshold)

Hey, PJ/J58, you skipped arguments #1-7!

The use of the term "jury n... (Below threshold)
mitchell:

The use of the term "jury nullification" in Field Negro's post is improper. And he's finally figured that out, so he's being so nice to agree with you.

In Durham, since 45%+ of the population is white, we're not likely to get a Field Negro-style jury. So, I would say we'll get a hung jury, if it goes that far.

It may not go that far. This case is the incredible shrinking case. Every week the case further crumbles. Fair minded black people in this town also see it. No thanks to some of the types that have posted, contra, on this blog.

The only thing we have from Mr. Field Negro is an admission he is wrong on his use of the term "jury nullification." No other useful analysis of the facts or law in the case. Typically.

Justice58 will not be able to understand your 1-7 posts because she is really just not up to it at present. If she were to educate herself, and try to expand her horizons a bit, she'd probably be ok. But she doesn't care at this point in her life. It's easier to have perception, rather than fact.

Field Negro: "Aryan Brotherhood?" You're deranged. If you don't know the difference, then you really haven't learned anything from MLK and company.

So did I a mere mortal laym... (Below threshold)
Eric:

So did I a mere mortal layman, outgun the FieldNegro on the law? My My My, I'm having a case of the vapors.

FieldNegro you say "...I was trying to find ways that a jury- yes of mostly Af. Americans-could find a way to see the def's as guilty even if the evidence stacks otherwise..."

Do you really mean to state that African Americans are incapable of rendering an honest verdict of guilt or acquittal based upon the evidence? Are saying that they are so racially biased that the defendents are incapable of getting a fair trial?

Wow hopefully the defense is reading this thread so they can use it in a motion for a change of venue. After all the great and wise FieldNegro has deemed 55% of the population of Durham is incapable of rendering a fair and honest verdict. That sounds like a good justification for a change of venue.

Eric, ha! I like it.... (Below threshold)
mitchell:

Eric, ha! I like it.

You, sir, have figured it out. Lawyers are not that smart, they just act like they are.

I think you should be waived into law school, no further testing necessary!

Cheers!

Eric, I see you have been t... (Below threshold)

Eric, I see you have been talking to the lawyers at your firm again. As for being waived into law school, I don't think so. A few browny points on a conservative web site does not a lawyer make. But nice try.

And your change of venue scenerio; it's a thought, although I doubt seriously if it would be granted.

Oh, and tell your cheer leader and law school sponser Mitchell, to speak for himself with this quote: "Lawyers are not that smart..." I am sure what he meant to say was: NC lawyers who post on conservative web sites, and who can't get over the fact that the FN sees right through them; aren't that smart.


Wayne admit a non-lawyer sm... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Wayne admit a non-lawyer smacked you down on the law. As to wanting to be a lawyer, I would much rather be drawn and quartered than be a lawyer.

Yeah you are definately not... (Below threshold)

Yeah you are definately not lawyer material. If you were, you would know that I would never admit to such a thing. But you get an "E" for effort.

BTW, where did you get my (maybe :) name have you been checking up on me? I gotta watch you boyz on these conservative sites. Next thing you know, G men will be knocking at my door.

But honestly, no harm no foul, you can check up on me all you want!Just don't pass any info on to that Aryan brtherhood guy M....well, you know who I am talking about.

There's an old saying. "If... (Below threshold)
Eric:

There's an old saying. "If you value your credit history, never Fnck with IT Geeks"

By the way who you calling Boy? ;)

Mitchell said: "Lawyers are... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Mitchell said: "Lawyers are not that smart, they just act like they are."

Mitchell I would disagree with you. I have met some brilliant attorneys, some flaming idiots and many levels in between.

What I have observed is that more often than not, the more arrogant the mouth, the smaller the game. The guys who talk a big game, generally aren't the ones that people depend on to get the job done.

Wayne, quite honestly you are the guy that everybody sees through.

Well I'm calling it a day and hitting the hay. I guess we will find out in a week what the judge has to say.

As a group, they are not th... (Below threshold)
mitchell:

As a group, they are not that smart. There are a number of individual lawyers I have high regard for.

As a group, they tend to be egotistical and overly competitive. That, not the brain power, leads to the problem. I'm second generation lawyer, so I've seen and heard quite a bit. The behind-the-scenes stuff is something else. Especially in big law firms.

Case in point--the arrogant DA in this case. The louder the calls for evidence, the more stubborn he seems to be. I've been a lawyer in Durham Co. for 15 years, and I've never heard anyone sing his praises, or recount a great case he brought to trial and won.

The garden variety stuff is easy pickings. This is a totally different ball game for this guy.

Regards.

I have to say, that when I ... (Below threshold)
mitchell:

I have to say, that when I first heard about this case, mainly what Nifong was saying, I told everyone who was discussing it with me that I thought the Dukies were toast. The "facts" presented by Nifong in his forecast of DNA evidence (who would think he'd make that up, with no DNA evidence for proof), the racial epithets, the allegation of "date rape" drug (again, no proof supports this).

With that forecast of evidence, who could doubt the gravity of the charge. However, now that we know that forecast was bogus, it's only reasonable to conclude, in light of 1000+ pages of discovery, no evidence on these points, and the conflict in the testimony of the accuser and her companion, as well as her "boyfriend" driver, that there is no case.

I get conflicted on these cases unless I have the facts. Now, we know most of the relevant facts. We really don't need all the facts--the facts we have are pretty damning.

Keeping an open mind is important regardless of who's on the receiving end of this mess.

(Comment removed. At W... (Below threshold)
justice58:

(Comment removed. At Wizbang it's a TOS violation to publish copyrighted material in the comment section. You may except and link, but that's all. Justice56, this is your only warning. )

SORRY... (Below threshold)
justice58:

SORRY

MITCHELL.... "Are you kiddi... (Below threshold)
justice58:

MITCHELL.... "Are you kidding me" (we don't need all the facts) this is NOT one-sided justice here.You know very well that Mike Nifong can't speak to the public about this case. Mike Nifong is not being stubborn, he is doing the right thing. Every day he keeps quiet, that means the case is still on going. Move on MITCHELL, because this case certainly is!

Poetic Justice, I mean J58,... (Below threshold)

Poetic Justice, I mean J58, that is the "Huh-uh!" argument.

Finally, in post # 140, the... (Below threshold)

Finally, in post # 140, the best solution to this back and forth I have heard. We will wait for the rest of the facts to come out, and the legal process to take its course.

But just remember all the nasty posts questioning my legal analysis and abilities -about the jurors etc.- and don't say I didn't tell you so when this case goes to trial, and the jury renders a verdict that has you all scracthing your heads.

BTW, Eric, what type of law does your firm speciallize in? I am willing to bet it's not criminal defense or litigation.

Oh, and "boyz" is a term of endearment in my book, so don't be so sensitive.

The firm I work for special... (Below threshold)
Eric:

The firm I work for specializes in employment law, so criminal law no, litigation absolutely. I'll also point out that the opinions expressed by me are mine and not parrotted by me from an actual attorney. The only thing I talked to one of our attorneys about was your jury nullification theory.

Your statement goes both ways. Just remember your legal analysis if the judge tosses some or all of the charges.

More problems for the DA in... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

More problems for the DA in Durham:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/450867.html

There is a motion on the ethics violations to remove him from the case. He might have to be a witness in the trial given the statements he first made about some of the evidence and which are now contradicted by the records he produced.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/450867.html

This DA is toast.

Petition drive for write in candidate to oppose DA is ongoing:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/450763.html

Yes, it's a great case, J58/FN.

Here's a real gem that sums... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Here's a real gem that sums up this DA's credibility problems, from the N & O:

"WALL OF SILENCE

Nifong's statements: Nifong repeatedly complained that the lacrosse players refused to cooperate with his investigation.

"It just seems like a shame that they are not willing to violate this seeming sacred sense of loyalty to team for loyalty to community," Nifong said on CNN on March 29. "My guess is that some of this stone wall of silence that we have seen may tend to crumble once charges begin to come out."

Nifong made similar comments to Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, ESPN and others.

Court papers: On March 16, three team captains -- David Evans, Matt Zash and Dan Flannery -- assisted police in searching their house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. The three players then went to the police station without lawyers, gave statements and DNA samples, and offered to take polygraph exams. The three players gave police their cell phones and laptop computers. The three men later hired lawyers, and discussions with Nifong ended. The other 43 lacrosse players also hired lawyers and did not talk with investigators."

So, he's either stupid, or he doesn't care what the police reports say, or he's a liar. Take your pick.

"So, he's either stupid,... (Below threshold)
Eric:

"So, he's either stupid, or he doesn't care what the police reports say, or he's a liar. Take your pick."

You left out D) All of the above.

You left <a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)
Eric:

You left this article out that goes into more detail of the discrepencies between what Nifong said publicly and what evidence he really has.

Justice 58, why do you call... (Below threshold)
bunker hill day:

Justice 58, why do you call this accuser "poor?" By my estimate, she pulled in at least $1,300 in the weekend of the Lacrosse party. 3 hotel encounters @ minimum $300 each and $400 at the Lacrosse party. And that is just two days. Lets assume that as a college student she only works part-time, or 2 days a week. At 3 encounters per day, averaging a total of $1,000, that is over $50k per year. Undoubtedly she doesn't pay taxes of Social Security on that income, which puts her in a relative $65k salary range. Certainly not poor!

Listen to me....You have no... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Listen to me....You have no proof of exactly how much money this victim made or didn't make, only your narrowed mind assumptions. Assumptions mean absolutely NOTHING. Go and find something meaningful to do with your life and stay out of her life!!

Justice59: your "assumptio... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Justice59: your "assumption" of the Duke Students' guilt means nothing. You're not able to read or understand or discuss the FACTS versus your impression/feeling/emotion.

Luckily for the rest of us, we don't convict people in this country based on your feelings. We do so, if we convict at all, on FACTS.

Did you read Professor Coleman's report???

Yes I did read professor co... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Yes I did read professor coleman's report... and??. Professor Coleman was NOT in that house on the night in question and neither were YOU or any of us. There is more to this case than what the defense is spinning!! Why won't the defense release all 1300 pages to the public so we can see for ourselves?? (when hell freezes over) They are picking out specific parts and filing motions so that it becomes public information and therefore, trying to poison the jury pool all at the same time. YOU need to read the "amsterdam news". I'm not backing down on where I stand on this case!!! This is NOT one-sided justice here. Mike Nifong is FIRMLY COMMITTED to this case and the VICTIM is STILL going forward and intends to testify in court and WILL stand and POINT OUT her attackers and say "THESE ARE THE MEN THAT RAPED ME".

You may not realize it, but... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

You may not realize it, but the medical records can't be released due to court order. The Defense can use information in it that exculpates their client, but they can't release the docs, Justice58. You need to read the news a little more carefully.

If they could release it, then Nifong would have done so before the defense.


Professor Coleman, a black liberal and law professor, thinks the prosecution has lost credibility due to lack of investigation before issuing statements that are now known to be clearly wrong. It doesn't matter what the other evidence is if Nifong made statements before DNA evidence and medical records were reviewed by his office. Given his lack of reponsible attention to the case and the ethics rules which limit a prosecutor's ability to speak about a case, his credibility is shot with the public, and most lawyers here.

And none of the exculpatory evidence(J58, this
means evidence tending to show innocence) was reviewed by Nifong before he opened his fat mouth in the 70 interviews. Did you know that one of the boys was not at the scene during the alleged event? Does that matter to you? It matters to fair-minded people, including Prof. Coleman.

Your inability to be at all troubled about the prosecution's case betrays your close-mindedness. You're simply blind to the facts.

But these facts which you won't acknowledge have and will make an impression on the judge and a jury, and all the other fair-minded people out there. Too bad you have chosen not to look at and appreciate those facts.

And, in the face of all the known facts which show the accuser to be a prior felon, prior false rape accuser in a prior case, lying about the facts of this case--30 rapists/3rapists/no rape/grope only/other dancer helped rape/only complained of rape when getting involuntarily committed--and her corroborating witness to be lying, then you have clearly failed to reasonably appreciate all the known facts that are relevant and apply to this case.

Too bad for you.

There is also a case pendin... (Below threshold)
justice58:

There is also a case pending in DC in which ONE of the assused is charged with attacking someone there!! MY MY... You must have certainly missed that. You know... it shows a pattern of behavior there BUT, ("you don't see that"). As for one of the duke 3 not being there, Mike Nifong has a different timeline, MITCHELL. You want to know what really bothers me. It is when SOMEONE tries to create an ALIBI!! and people like you fall for it.

How does that prove this cr... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

How does that prove this crime?

Proof of the other crime is not admitted in evidence of this crime.

You clueless, Justice58.

Your proof of a crime is the accuser's various statements; that's all you have. She's a liar, so that's all you got.

And, you assume the "duke 3" are guilty and yet you want the case to go on with the faulty evidence.

Why is that exactly? You already think you know the result.

You are so far out of your league, lady, that it ain't funny.

Put your faith in whores and politicians like Nifong, and see what it'll get you!

Ha!

Justice58 said, "Ther... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

Justice58 said, "There is also a case pending in DC in which ONE of the assused is charged with attacking someone there!! MY MY... You must have certainly missed that. You know... it shows a pattern of behavior there BUT, ("you don't see that"). As for one of the duke 3 not being there, Mike Nifong has a different timeline, MITCHELL. You want to know what really bothers me. It is when SOMEONE tries to create an ALIBI!! and people like you fall for it.

The case in DC is a simple assault for which adjudicated probation was given. That's hardly dispositive of a propensity for rape!!!!!!

Nifong is not entitled to his own time line. In fact, the time line of events, backed away from the ATM machine going in reverse, is absolutely verified by the camera time stamps -- also verified by ABC News.

There is no evidence that anyone at that party tried to create an alibi because nobody needed one.

There was no rape, and most of the known world is now agreeing with that.

You use the term "simple as... (Below threshold)
justice58:

You use the term "simple assault" as if it's no problem and it's OK to beat up on people that you don't like because they are different, whether it be the color of their skin or their religion or sexual preference. It really shows your mindset, Mr. One thing that you're missing is the FACT that the GRANDJURY has indicted these duke 3 players. They had to hear something concrete in order to come up with this decision and NOT just because Mike Nifong told them so. In your own warped world, you'll believe anything in order to justify your own thinking. We shall see IF they needed an ALIBI!! I say they did need one and tried to create one. As you can see Mike Nifong is NOT going to drop this case and he hasn't changed his mind about it. He is seeking justice in this case and YOU need to DEAL with it.

You use the term "sim... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

You use the term "simple assault" as if it's no problem and it's OK to beat up on people that you don't like because they are different, whether it be the color of their skin or their religion or sexual preference. It really shows your mindset, Mr.

Your ignorant, racist, rude, and classless post is beyond insulting.

"Simple assault" is a LEGAL TERMS to describe a misdemeanor assault/battery. It does NOT mean the assault was no big deal. You don't know me or my mindset. You have no cause to make those kinds of assumptions out of stupidity.

One thing that you're missing is the FACT that the GRANDJURY has indicted these duke 3 players. They had to hear something concrete in order to come up with this decision and NOT just because Mike Nifong told them so. In your own warped world, you'll believe anything in order to justify your own thinking.

There you go again, insulting me. I think you have some serious issues.

Nifong deceived the Grand Jury. Trust me on that. He gave them the same story he gave the media. That's common sense. So, he misled them the same way he did the media.

We shall see IF they needed an ALIBI!! I say they did need one and tried to create one.

There was no crime. Why would they need an alibi?

As you can see Mike Nifong is NOT going to drop this case and he hasn't changed his mind about it. He is seeking justice in this case and YOU need to DEAL with it.

If Nifong were after justice, he would already have met with the defense attorneys and considered a truckload of exculpatory evidence.

He isn't seeking justice. He's seeking to get elected.

Tell me... how am I a racis... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Tell me... how am I a racist, Mr. I DISAGREE with you and you call me a racist!! The grandjury was not deceived Mr. That is what you choose to believe. Mike Nifong is a very good DA and you choose to see otherwise because he is prosecuting these 3 white guys from duke. It is very clear that the defense has gotten you to believe their spin. You have decided in your own mind that he couldn't possibly be prosecuting them for no other reason than to be reelected. You don't know what really happened in that house that night and you're trying to deprive this victim of her rights to seek justice. Why won't the defense make public of all 1300 pages of discovery?...wait, let me answer... because there is something BAD in there and they want to keep it hidden right now. As for the case in DC, why do you choose to NOT talk about it. It may not be entered in this case but I see a pattern of behavior that is just d*mn ugly. You don't want to see this victim as a student, or mother but you want to degrade her and call her a liar and say nothing happened to her... well..I believe her and so do many other supporters.

Justice58 said, " Why... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

Justice58 said, " Why won't the defense make public of all 1300 pages of discovery?...wait, let me answer... because there is something BAD in there and they want to keep it hidden right now.

In fact, the defense has turned the entire file over to MSNBC. That cable station says there is no damaging information to the accused where the rape or kidnapping is concerned. So, that's now a moot point.

" As for the case in DC, why do you choose to NOT talk about it. It may not be entered in this case but I see a pattern of behavior that is just d*mn ugly.

Finnerty was charged with, and received adjudicated probation for, a simple assault in an area of Virginia that has dozens of them per week. He and some guy got into it over a remark about the guy being gay. That certainly does not mean the boy is capable of, or disposed to, rape and kidnapping.

You don't want to see this victim as a student, or mother but you want to degrade her and call her a liar and say nothing happened to her.

This woman is a criminal who stole a car and tried to run down a police officer. She's was kicked out of the Navy; not an easy feat. She's an adulterer with two kids she had while married to a completely different fellow than their father. She's also a prostitute. And you don't think she can LIE ? LMAO !!!

She's told so many versions about what happened that night that it's clear she's too stupid to remember from one moment to the next the LAST LIE SHE TOLD.

I'm certain there was no rape. There was only a huge hoax. The only slack I'm willing to cut this woman is that she may be seriously mentally off-balance.

GOD BLESS MIKE NIFONG!!! He... (Below threshold)
justice58:

GOD BLESS MIKE NIFONG!!! He is seeking justice in this case and believes in what he is doing. He has my support and the support of many other people in Durham. This is not one-sided justice here. We have a legal system here and that's the way it is going. Justice will prevail here. Mike Nifong is a good DA and believes in this case and I PRAISE him for it.

I believe it's wonderful th... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

I believe it's wonderful that Mike Nifong's mother posts here as Justice 58.

You can always count on mom. LOL

Well since we are now punis... (Below threshold)
Oldman:

Well since we are now punishing people for alleged misbehavior, why hasn't the prosecutor stepped down yet?

What about Kim Roberts? Sh... (Below threshold)
Noble Furr:

What about Kim Roberts? She was named as one of the assailants; the first one identified, in fact.

Why hasn't she been indicted by Nifong?

Are we talking selective political indictments?

Listen Old Noble Furr... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Listen Old Noble Furr


I'm not that old, Mr,and I'm glad if he still has a mom. I really wish I did.

JUSTIE58 ISN'T AN ATTORNEY!... (Below threshold)
Stef:

JUSTIE58 ISN'T AN ATTORNEY!!! In other blogs on the web she accounts for still being in college! She takes classes at a JC. Attorney my ass, she can barely spell!

Whatever you say!W... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Whatever you say!

Why are you so scared and chasing behind every post I make??? If you have nothing to worry about then brush off your shoulders and kick back baby!

I am allowed to blog on her... (Below threshold)
Stef:

I am allowed to blog on here just like you darling :)

Why am I scared? Of what exactly? There was a post on here that said you claimed to be an attorney, which is so obviously false. I felt the need to straighten out the story.

If I have nothing to worry about? Worry about what?

Stef... Did I sign justice5... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Stef... Did I sign justice58 to that post that you're speaking about??? Get your information straight darling!! I never claimed anything... I am not responsible for what other people post on a blog. The fact is...you don't know what my line of work is and it's tearing you apart. But, keep on guessing .

Tearing me apart? Honestly ... (Below threshold)
Stef:

Tearing me apart? Honestly I couldn't care less what you do with your life (especially since you acknowledged that you are still in college, leading me to believe whatever job you hold isn't a very hard one), but I just wanted to make very clear that you are not a lawyer. You wouldn't pass the LSAT to begin with, let alone the bar. I don't want people thinking what I do in law school is easy enough for morons like you. It'd be an insult to my JD.

Like I saidKeep on... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Like I said

Keep on guessing

Guess you were wrong justic... (Below threshold)
Reason:

Guess you were wrong justice58. Seems she made the whole thing up and Nifong is about to become Nofing. What are you going to do now your life has no basis, your viewpoints no credibility?
You've come across as an ignorant bigot with no sense of reason. Perhaps you should avoid jumping on the bandwagon before you know where its going next time.




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