About time.

What about "I eat Odin's boogers."

Kill two birds with one stone.

The only other thing I can think of is to at least hide the bulk of the really long posts. Something "There's more. Read the rest of the story" linkies that get auto applied when the post is over a certain size.

Replace with "Are you stuck on stupid? Stay on topic."

A suggestion -- Whizbang! will likely have less thread hijackings if you stop the practice of deleting comments which are not off-topic or hijack attempts. Whizbang regularly and routinely deltes comments which are not offensive, but just happen to be in oppsition to Whizbangs point of view.

Paul is the principle offender here. I've noticed that cogent comments made to his blog postings, which are polite and thoughtful but just happen to be in opposition to his stated opinion, are routinely deleted, or edited so as to change the words of the commenter in a way that demeans them - a la "I eat boogers" or the like. There are examples of this in the last 24 hours.

I suspect that there would be less of what you find offensive behaviour, if there was less offensive behaviour from your own staff.

I for one, will happily embrace whatever policy you guys choose as long as it is fair to everybody. If it isn't fair, you reap what you sow, Odin.

My Vote is "Blood for Odin!"

There's a variation in some circles that goes "Blood for the Blood God!"

Personally that one would be preferred.

Oh, brother. There will be less thread hijackings if the comments are allowed to stand?

Lee, are you capable of any logical thought at all?

I'd go with GarandFan's suggestion:

"Replace with "Are you stuck on stupid? Stay on topic."

However, I would add a warning, and follow up on it, that any future, off topic comments, on the thread will disappear.

LEave the name of poster delete the contents.

It's your blog:

Set the ground rules (in a manner that most readers will know)

Enforce them

If a poster, using this example, won't follow the rules
a. Delete the message
b. If it continues, block the poster

Lee, if you've been hanging around here so long as to observe this pattern of deletion and edits, why haven't you learned how to spell the name of the blog yet? It's not "Whizbang."

Oh, brother. There will be less thread hijackings if the comments are allowed to stand?

Lee, are you capable of any logical thought at all?

As an example, if I had made that exact same comment on a post by Paul he would delete it.

Yes, JannyMae, I suspect that when people aren't being unfairly censored they will tend to yell less.

Its your bandwidth and ya'll's blog.

Trolls and ID10T's generally hit my ignore list quickly. I flash scan to see who's made the comments before I read them.
Mak, jp , lint and the other assorted pests are a waste of my time. If they were to actually start posting revelant facts its to late because of prior idiocy. Just like real life, if you blow it there's rarely ever a second chance.
I was really hoping this wouldn't turn into usenet.

Even hecklers stay on subject. I think you should replace their messages with random C'thulu references. At least THAT is on topic.

"Blood for Odin, boogers for me"

Lee lee could change his name to "pucker puss".

I don't like any comments being deleted. After all, that's exactly what scrollbars are for, however there are exceptions I suppose. Maybe if everyone's handles would appear before the comment, it'd be easier to scroll past them if you wanted to.

Maybe a "fold" for hijacking comments? Something like "There's more! read the rest of this booger eater's comment >>"

Wizbang is free, and doesn't ask much of those who choose to read it and share their opinions on it, and although some comments get deleted, it's because 99% (or whatever it is) aren't deleted that makes it a cool place in my opinion.

Lee, I'd be willing to bet that you've NEVER had a commment of yours edited or deleted on any of my threads, so quit your bitching. And Laura's right -- learn how to spell the name of this place so you can at least PRETEND to show a modicum of respect.

J.

I am not a fan of heavy editing/deleting, but in the case where somebody is chiming in with something totally off topic, I think you should leave their post, and edit the text to reflect the fact that they are idiots of one degree or another.

If a comment is irrelevant and unnecessarily lengthy, I'm for replacing it with other text just so we don't have to scroll through the nonsense. How about, "I'm a moron who doesn't know how to stay on topic."

Wizbang
I love You just the way You are.."Billy Joel"

As long as you do it uniformly, to comments of your supporters and detractors, who could complain?

Maybe Tom Delay could lay down the ground rules?

"Lee, I'd be willing to bet that you've NEVER had a commment of yours edited or deleted on any of my threads, so quit your bitching."

No, I don't think there has been an instance where that's happened, and I didn't say you had edited or deleted my comments either, did I? I referred to Paul, not you.

but you did say:

"In fact, I'm not going to do anything without kicking it around with Kevin and the rest of the crew who post here on the main page"

So, Jay, you do recognize that what one of you does effects the other bloggers on this site as well. It goes both ways. If someone is routinely a victim of unfair treatment on the site, the whole site is likely to be effected. I'm sure Kevin recognizes that, and you seem to recognize that as well.

My suggestion is that whatever policy you forge is applied to the entire site, not just your threads.

Out of the mouth of a "schmuck troll"

Is commenting on another's post/comment considered "off topic?"

"Maury": It's not uncommon for threads to evolve into other topics. It's the one's that start off with something so far out of context because it is blatantly obvious that the commentor likely behaves in the same fashion in private life as well; trying to dominate conversations and set the tone for discourse as if they own the place. As if there's not another single blog in the ether where they can discuss it with others. As if they just get some perverse pleasure out of virtually slapping you in the face.

That the person has been consistently thoughtful and respectful in the past - regardless of whether they agree with you - is a mitigating factor.

Throw the "bums" out, Jay. They can start their own blog and pray for visitors.

Jay,

If a post is completely off topic and there's no explanation at it's beginning as to why, or you don't agree with the explanation, then delete the body of the text and replace it with a message that it was deleted for being off topic. Also, if someone posts a large chunk of text from another source that may be copyrighted, then it should be deleted and replace with a message stating why.

While I seldom agree with Lee, I put him in the sincere critic category, and his comment about being deleted from Paul's stories is true and I have even had some deleted myself, although to be fair, I was warned. I also affirm that I have never seen you delete posts due to contrary content even when being personally and viciously attacked, and for that you have my respect.

I'm not suggesting any other changes. The variety and depth of stories combined with the rapid free flow of comments from such a wide spectrum of commenters makes WizBang the best blog on the net for adults.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

I read recently on the blogosphere, though I don't remember where, that in the old days gentlemen were more respected when they came up with their own "bad word" equivalent. When I was a teenager I used "menageria." Now I mostly say "bad word." (Definitely not unique.)

I think you should come up with your own, Wizbangly unique tear on the piece and post that.

Or you could go for a grammar/high/college school approach and replace it with the accurate and well meant comment, "Stay on topic."

I would vote for leaving their name and replacing their text. One can always use a smile when reading. Perhaps the phrase "I started to think... but nothing happened."

"BLOOD FOR ODIN!!!"

But seriously, I don't like the idea of the post being deleted. I think the best idea I've heard is putting it below the fold. Perhaps for comments over a certain length, which would affect all, or maybe just for trolls and off-topics. If you go with below the fold for trolls and off-topics, it would be helpful to have a header: "off-topic below the fold" and/or "troll droppings below the fold".

I have no idea how involved that would be and how often it would be needed (you could spend your life just cleaning up after certain people).

If the post is off topic for the subject I say just delete. No need for an explanation. If someone is going off topic by posting irrelevent posts or hijacking a thread then they obviously don't care what is being discussed so who cares what they think? If their posts are indistinguishable from posting bots then take them out.

If you started deleting posts because they disagreed with the opionions or topic then I think that would be wrong. As often as I disagree with the opinions of Lee or Mak or jp2 as long as their posts are on topic they have as much right to say their piece as anyone else.

Leave the comment alone. Since the comment is on an irrelevant thread it will be seen by LESS people who are interested in Iraq and might have their opinion swayed by it.

If the comment is posted over-and-over again on different threads then delete them all and ban the poster.

Create a permanent "Off Topic Party Thread" post and banish obvious hijacks to that thread.

That way, they'll all be in one place and make more sense then they do in the threads they were trying to hijack.

No deletions necessary.

Deleting outright isn't too bad of a thing to do in such cases, IMO.

You could build a "trash comment" bin, or something along those lines. Cut and paste the offending post there, and post a link to it where the comment used to be. That way you're not really censoring anybody, but you are un-cluttering the main conversation.

Maybe even send it over to Wizbang Bomb Squad and let them start their own damn thread...

For Jay,

Wizbang is one of the few popular blogs that both allows comments without registration (not that registration would be a terrible thing), and does not routinely delete comments or ban commenters based on political ideology. Most blogs out there, on both sides, that allow comments are only interested in maintaining an echo chamber. This is fine of course, those bloggers can do what they want, but that is what makes this site stand apart.

However, you are right that there are a few people who routinely abuse this openness by posting something totally irrelevant because they believe you should comment on it. This is both stupid and counterproductive. If you think a story or topic should be covered here but it isn't, well then maybe you should get your own blog, or if you aren't interested in that, write an email to one of the bloggers here calling their attention to the topic you think needs coverage. As a commenter I in no way feel entitled to having topics I want to talk about covered. If one of the bloggers here posts on a topic I'm interested in, or, more likely, leaves something out concerning a topic, I will post a comment and engage in discussion with the other commenters. It's ridiculous to assume they should post on what I want to talk about, and if they don't, get bitchy about it. In any case those who do this are breaking etiquette and the hosts are under no obligation to suffer these fools.

I vote for Blood for Odin.

For Lee,

No, I don't think there has been an instance where that's happened, and I didn't say you had edited or deleted my comments either, did I? I referred to Paul, not you.

Bullshit. You said, "Whizbang (sic) regularly and routinely deltes (sic) comments which are not offensive, but just happen to be in oppsition (sic) to Whizbangs (sic) point of view." This is totally untrue. Paul, not Wizbang, occasionally deletes comments he considers too stupid when he's in a pissy mood. He did that to me once or twice when I first started commenting here, and it hasn't happened once in the following two years or so (I learned how to comment on Paul posts). No one else deletes comments (and remember, they could just ban your ass if they wanted).

Oh, and by the way, it's not censorship. Censorship is something the government does. No one is taking away your right to speak. You can get your own damn blog. And maybe you should.

You know yourself, Jay -- on that really distant level on which you are honest with yourself and the rest of creation -- that you won't be applying this standard to anyone on any thread who happens to be scratching your itching ears at the moment. You demand civility from your enemies, and ignore the incivility of those you agree with.

Why bother, O avatar of intellectual honesty?

Now, I'm not saying that you're overusing any rhetorical devices, but...

Now say, I'm going to ban you! I just get chills whenever you do that.

P.S. Surgery came out okay. Thanks for asking.

Heck boys, I've even been threatened with Paulbangs for particularly noxious puns and jokes. I believe Paul is truly non-denominational in the use of his delete key.

I am all for deleting totally off topic posts. You can always find an older post to leave your comment on if no one's posted on what's itching in you pants at any given time. The exception might be for very brief and either funny or embarrassing posts that provide a brief respite from either erudite discussion or yahoo's flinging poo.

Delete 'em. It will help keep the thread on topic.

...Oh yes, the rational world: Stick to the thread, I say, and transpose irrelevance to Latin -- I mean, the really dirty, stupid, ignorant stuff you creeps usually post here, you backwards, silly, lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua...

As for astigfa's comment, I believe your perception of JT is marred by your own self-inflicted experiences. I've seen JT chastise folks on both sides of the argument. Of course he enjoys tilting at folks who set themselves up for an easy fall. Chill.

Leave their own text as is, we already know its stupid,

add your own commentary, labeled as such, at your discretion, it should be humorous

Actually that should be Thor's hammer
Mjollnir

how about "blood for odin's boogers!"

McGehee is inviting further comments about the perceived deterioration of these threads here and at John Cole's place.

"No blood for Odin!"

I don't think comments should be deleted. It bothers me to think that Paul has been systematically deleting comments that, even if they are polite and well-written, happen to disagree with his opinion. Several of you are saying that this has occurred, and it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

My opinion is that all comments should be left in - unless they are sickos who do a hit and run with unnecessary roughness.

Ebay is probably a bad example - but I have been selling and buying on ebay since 1997, and one's reputation is based on one's feedback rating (and comments). Imagine what would ensue if people were able to delete negative comments? When a seller leaves negative feedback, the buyer is allowed to post a rebuttal statement below, but it cannot be deleted. At least anyone looking from the outside has the opportunity to take in all of the information and form their own opinion.

Give us a chance to take it all in and form an opinion. Once you open the door for the deletion of comments, you are, at least for me, taking away some of the honesty that keeps me coming back here daily.

Once again Lee gets it 100% wrong.

Paul is the principle offender here. I've noticed that cogent comments made to his blog postings, which are polite and thoughtful but just happen to be in opposition to his stated opinion, are routinely deleted, or edited so as to change the words of the commenter in a way that demeans them - a la "I eat boogers" or the like. There are examples of this in the last 24 hours.

Bullshit.

From time to time I get idiots who post feel called upon to post stupid things. You are this week's offender.

If you:

1) Lie
2) Are demonstrably wrong about a fact (not an opinion) and refuse to accept reality

or 3) Incrediblly overtly annoying

I'll delete you with a good heart. Now to get deleted for #3 the bar is actually quite high.

#'s 1 and 2 the bar is fairly low.

IF IF IF you've been deleted for 1 or 2 a few times a short period of time, the #3 bar goes down lower.

Goodness knows, If I make a post saying I saying I had a big bowel movement mantis will disagree with me. I never delete him. (He says I did in the past, I don't remember... If if that is the case I bet he now understands why he got nuked.)

Mac Lorry often disagrees. I doubt he's even been deleted.

Teere are a few others that rountinely disagree and they never get delted.. WHY? Because they are not assholes and you are.

I've been deleting your every comment for the last few days to give you a reality check.

If you want to post like an adult you will be treated as such. If not I reserve the right to do delete you instantly.

Now grow up, quit whining and you'll be taken seriously. If you are not able to post like an adult, I'll simply delete you until you get the message to move on. Your choice, not mine.

----

Want to disagree? Don't praddle on.... Prove me wrong.

Post "cogent comments , which are polite and thoughtful" and see if they get deleted.

Here's your chance.

Postscript I should have added one more to that list... The ABSOLUTE fastest way to get me to delete you is to select something you think I'm "wrong" about and "call" me on it only to be wrong yourself.

(And this is why mantis -who ALWAYS disagress with me- is one of my favorite commenters.)

If want to call me wrong... You sure as shit better have used google first. If you call me on something and a simple google search gives me 10 hits that you could have found... I'll drop kick your sorry ass across the blogosphere.

Mantis ALWAYS has his shit together before he comments. The FEW times he hasn't, all I need to do is drop a link and the discussion is over.

This has become pet peeve #1 since Katrina hit, when multiple people who had never even been to New Orleans tried to tell me I had my facts wrong... When they had no clue what they were talking about.

That Lee, is what got you booted the first time and it will get you booted any day of the week.

Comments should be left alone by run through the Sweedish Chef translator. There is one here and there is even a firefox mod to do it in the browser. For example, your first paragraph of this posting would look like this:

Ooff lete-a, ve-a here-a et Veezbung hefe-a beee ettrecteeng oooor shere-a ooff detrecturs. Sume-a ere-a trulls, sume-a ere-a seencere-a creetics, und sume-a ere-a joost schmoocks. (Zeese-a ere-a nut mootooelly ixclooseefe-a cetegureees. Mek, fur ixemple-a, feets zee furst und thurd cetegury qooeete-a neecely.) It's oone-a ooff zee theengs I felooe-a must ebuoot zee vey theengs ere-a dune-a eruoond here-a -- zee cunstunt chellenge-a furces me-a tu re-a-ifelooete-a my oovn puseeshuns oon oocceseeun, chungeeng my oopeeniun vhee I'fe-a beee meestekee sume-a teemes, re-a-inffurceeng my beleeeffs oon oozeers. Bork Bork Bork!

Personally, I'd like to see all the trolls here *CENSORED* "BLOOD FOR ODIN!!!" *CENSORED*

Is there any way to put the poster's handle at the top of the post so that we might just skip past the dickweed trolls? That would work for me. Or add an 'ignore this handle' cookie so that they don't even show.

Tob

Please just delete them.

Consider this a bit more objectively.
If a comment is posted that has nothing related to the original post, we call it spam. (Usually it is linking to another site.) It gets deleted if the spam filter doesn't catch it. Why should a post by someone who isn't a "bot" get better treatment than spam? Unrelated or off-topic comments *are* spam and I don't want to have to scroll past them.

My reasoning for just deleting them rather than modifying them is twofold;
1) I don't want the authors here spending any more time than absolutely necessary managing the blog - I want them producing quality commentary in a good frame of mind. Editting someone else's post takes time and can distract the author from something else they may have been working on.
b) Leaving a post by the original author still gets that author recognition. A commenter who posts spam doesn't deserve recognition for another off-topic post - s/he deserves *nothing*. And the opposite of "love" is not "hate" - it is "indifference". The proper way (IMO) to prevent undesired behavior from a narcissist is not to acknowledge the behavior and provide the spammer attention. The proper way is to delete the comment and starve the attention-monger.

The "Odin" and "boogers" things are cute, but they still require time to do and provide the spammer with the desired feedback of "Ha! They noticed me! I got their attention!"

Just delete it and move on.

Paul,

Your bowel movement wasn't that big.

I agree with Jon. Just say NO to completely off-topic posts.

It's a judgement call. Leave in the smartass one-liners for comic relief, for example. But if the comment has absolutely nothing to do with the stem post, it is often merely an attempt to hijack the thread. That's troll behavior.

Trolls deserve to have their offending posts deleted. Repeat offenders should be banned altogether.

This isn't even an anti-moonbat position. The looney leftists should remain free to say any fool thing that pops into their minds - or more likely, springs off of the talking points from moonbat HQ - so long as it is ON TOPIC.

That way, we still get to laugh at the morons, but readers are not subjected to off-topic diversions. Everybody's happy!

It's like the dawning of the Age of Aquarius . . .

õ¿õ

I was banned from Crooks and Liars for merely being contrary to the utterly insane positions of the ignoarti there.

It's commendable to allow dissent, something infrequently permitted on left-wing sites.

Then again, it is a privilege and not a right. The posts need to be kept in the proper place. As someone who also runs a forum I'd recommend one warning and allow the person to reposition the post, followed by deletion of further hijacking efforts.

I've only been visiting this blog for a couple of months and I've enjoyed it thus far, but if you start editing comments I'm afraid I need to find another blog to visit. I understand your frustration with some comments being out of context or just plain mean, and it is your blog so you can do with it what you please, but to me, editing someone's words is going far beyond controlling. If I know that some comments are being edited, then I have to assume EVERY comment may be edited, thus rendering the entire blog useless. Please let us know your intentions so I can make a decision. Thanks

This is a very common problem on many blogs. Matt at Froggyruminations often deleted the longwinded, offtopic or offensive comment after warnings. SEALs don't mess around and he always reminded us his blog was not a democracy. Worked for me. I wish more blog owners would get rough.

The idea that allowing long, offtopic comments (including entire articles) to clog up and ruin a comment thread will lead to fewer thread hijackings is the height of stupidity to me; sounds like the argument that not fighting terrorists will lead to fewer terror attacks.

And at least some of us abandon a thread as soon as it's hijacked. When every thread routinely gets hijacked, we abandon the blog. That is what hijackers want.

My vote is for 1 warning; on further infractions, keep the commenter's name, remove the comment and replace it with "I violated the rules against stupidity."

I said:

"I've noticed that cogent comments made to his blog postings, which are polite and thoughtful but just happen to be in opposition to his stated opinion, are routinely deleted"

and Paul replies

"Bullshit"

then says

"If you:

1) Lie
2) Are demonstrably wrong about a fact (not an opinion) and refuse to accept reality

or 3) Incrediblly overtly annoying

I'll delete you with a good heart"

Which exactly proves my point.... the five words at the start of this sentence is enough in Paul's mind to justify deleting this comment (he's done that before on something as simple as that statement - that "he's proven my point").

He does so routinely. I say he deletes my comments regardless of their politeness and appropriateness, and he says Bullshit but then says: I've been deleting your every comment for the last few days to give you a reality check.

Ooops, there he goes, contradicting himself... and the five words at the start of this sentence are enough in Paul's mind to justify deleting this comment -- stating that he's contradicted himself - because he no doubt disagrees that he's contradicted himself.

Paul also lied. It hasn't been in just the last few days this has been ongoing for at least a month.

Paul also said: Mac Lorry often disagrees. I doubt he's even been deleted." -- but Mac Lorry says the following in a comment posted above, affirming that my (Lee's) "...comment about being deleted from Paul's stories is true and I have even had some deleted myself, although to be fair, I was warned."

Hmmm. Paul says it hasn't happened, but here is testimony it has... oh well, you readers would never know it since Paul would read this and delete it....

etc.

Enough said. I'm not going to beat this dead horse any longer, but I am going to continue to point out Paul's uh--- "inconsistencies" and Paul will continue to delete comments I make solely because they disagree with what's he said (in his words "they lie") unless a policy change takes place.

I absolutely guarantee that Paul delete this commment if he could. I'm 100% absolute positively convinced he would, and if he says he wouldn't have -- he's lying.

That's the truth, and Paul doesn't want you to hear it.

To Mantis and Paul:
I've seen scarier things than Lee in my stool.

I'm very disapointed to hear that comments are being deleted. Even though I don't agree with Lee politically, from what I've seen he hasn't been threatening, abusive, irrational, or out of line. I have however seen Paul in this very thread say: "I'll drop kick your sorry ass across the blogosphere."
A healthy exchange of ideas is always productive. Abusing the power one has on here is counter-productive.

Lee, once again, you've passed on yet another opportunity to just shut the hell up. Nobody here cares for your condescending, argumentative and insulting posts.

A "healthy exchange of ideas", as Tim describes it, makes sense, but regularly posting incindiary comments (Lee and Mak come to mind) reminds me of that VW commercial "I'm overcoming my shortcomings! I'm overcoming my shortcomings!"...

I'm in favor of a little unprovoked censorship, if the ACLU types don't mind a hell of a lot, in the interest of a more harmonious atmosphere around here. The guys that run this blog do a good job and deserve a little common respect.

Mantis, I believe that I can count on one hand the number of comments you've made that I agreed with. Your first comment on this thread actually impressed me. Well done.

Oh, and I like "Blood for Odin!" best. Every time I hear or read that I giggle.

Lee,

The only comment of mine that Paul has deleted, that I know of, was after he told me not to feed the trolls (you), and when one of my small comments referred to one of your deleted comments, it was deleted, maybe by accident or for constancy, I don't know. I know you disagree, but I figure that if I'm going to challenge one of Paul's point, I need to have my facts straight or clearly indicate it's my opinion. This is particularly true if the subject is New Orleans.

I love Jay's work, but I also love Paul's work, but I don't want two Jays or two Pauls. It's the verity that makes WizBang so interesting. Jay has one set of rules and Paul has his own set. I don't mean any disrespect, but if you are thin skinned, or don't like Paul's rules, don't reply to Paul's threads.

Well I know exactly what I'd do.

If they post a long news article, I think it is only fair to replace it with something at least a bit longer than 'Blood for Odin'.

I would replace it either with the text of the opening speech from Patton, or Carl Spackler's speech from Caddyshack extolling the wonders of being a 'looper' for the Dalai Lama.

"Big hitter, the lama . . . "

Lee the dimwit did opine:

He does so routinely. I say he deletes my comments regardless of their politeness and appropriateness, and he says Bullshit but then says: I've been deleting your every comment for the last few days to give you a reality check.

Ooops, there he goes, contradicting himself...

=========

Sigh... It's SUCH a shame Lee can't read.....

let me exaplin it to you again you nitwit..... I said:

------
1) Lie
2) Are demonstrably wrong about a fact (not an opinion) and refuse to accept reality

or 3) Incrediblly overtly annoying

I'll delete you with a good heart. Now to get deleted for #3 the bar is actually quite high.

#'s 1 and 2 the bar is fairly low.

IF IF IF you've been deleted for 1 or 2 a few times a short period of time, the #3 bar goes down lower.
------------

That last part applies to you. You got deleted "with cause" so many times the bar was at ground level. Your mere presence was enough.

I know thinking was never your long suit but I can always hope.

The only comment of mine that Paul has deleted, that I know of, was after he told me not to feed the trolls (you), and when one of my small comments referred to one of your deleted comments, it was deleted, maybe by accident or for constancy, I don't know.

----

I do remember that now that you mention it... Constancy, nothing more...

It looks funny if you reply to a comment that is not there any more.

As you say it was a small comment so when I nuked Lee so I took out yours as well. No biggie.