Reminds me of "Life in these United States" joke in Reader's Digest a few years ago: four college students walked in 15 minutes late to a history exam, claiming they'd had a flat tire. The professor said he'd give them all an "A" if they'd all answer one question correctly. He then set them down in separate corners with a pencil and a single sheet of paper and asked them each one question: "Which tire was flat?"

"Before September the 11th, law enforcement could more easily obtain business and financial records of white-collar criminals than of suspected terrorists. See, part of the way to make sure that we catch terrorists is we chase money trails. And yet it was easier to chase a money trail with a white-collar criminal than it was a terrorist. The Patriot Act ended this double standard and it made it easier for investigators to catch suspected terrorists by following paper trails here in America."
George W. Bush
April 19, 2004 in Hershey, PA

More here

Granted, it has a liberal take, but at least give a differing opinion a chance.

The whole problem with falsehood is that you need a really good memory to keep your stories straight. And given the wild divergence of their opinions in the last 5 years, neither the LAT nor the NYT has even a scrap of effective memory.

Perhaps Odin's Wrath needs to descend upon the NYT/LAT, etc. rather than on mere blog trolls.

sean nyc/aa at June 27, 2006 03:12 PM

More here [link not repeated here]

Regarding the link, what a pantload of drivel. And the comments are even worse, i.e. The Bushies are preparing to march in the jackbooted thugs and shut down the free press and frogmarch those that disagree off to concentration camps. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! I couldn't take more than 15 or 20 comments.

What those of you on the left fail to understand is that these stories do reveal new information, which is useful to our enemies [those that are referred to as 'freedom fighters' by the left] and make it harder to fight them. President Bush's quote that both you and Greenwald print in bold does not reveal the methods. Yes they know we are watching, but do we have to give them an Owner's Manual of how we are doing it?

Is the NSA Echelon program, monitoring every domestic communication a violation of the wiretapping warrant requirements? Of course not, it was started by the Clinton administration, and they had the purest of intentions. Only a Progressive administration can be trusted with such sensitive information. Just like when they were caught with those 300 FBI files.

FYI, I wasn't happy when the Echelon program was revealed by the media, either.

I have no doubt that if we are hit again by a terrorist under the watch of the Bush Administration, that those of you that are defending the right of the newspapers to publish classified programs, making it harder to find terrorists, will scream the loudest wanting to know why the Administration didn't do more to protect us.

BDS is rampant. But, once again, you've convinced me. I refuse to vote for George W. Bush in the 2008 election. I have to oppose his reelection to support the cause of unity in the country. [/sarcasm]

Sean, let's say Glenn's inane and sub-moronic point is correct. Let's say Bush leaked it.

Time for a news flash: The president has the power to declassify info. The NY Times does not.

Ignoring how patently absurd the leftie blog co-ordinated talking point of the day is (you KNOW they already have a mailing list with talking points --- funny, you don't see conservative sites doing that), it's STILL immaterial since Bush has the power that Bill Keller does not: The power to declassify.
-=Mike

Hmmmm.

Ahhhh yes. Glenn Greenwald.

Supposed "conservative". (what a load of crap that is)

Fully paid up member of Townhouse.

Asshat.

I just love how the NYT was demanding just such a program right after 9/11, Bush sets up the program to monitor terrorists finances...and then the NYT et al go and expose it.

They are more concerned with 'getting' Bush than they are concerned with America's safety.

wave-man, you can remark on the comments all you want, I didn't read them. as far as echelon goes, I don't know the details of it, but is it (was it?) being used with oversight by Congress and/or the courts as required by law? If so, then whatever objections either of us may have are for naught. That is the main argument being presented, not the idea that we shouldn't be using all types of surveillance possible. (and just for the record again, I believe this bank story is legal and have no objection to it as long as oversight is taking place.)

What those of you on the left fail to understand is that these stories do reveal new information, which is useful to our enemies

The NSA story certainly revealed new info, but was certainly a justified leak (imo) because of the questionable legality of it. However, as this link was meant to show, the bank story was not as "classified" as everyone is claiming. Anyone who wanted to could have searched the internet before this story was printed and found a lot of the info in it. Also, as I'm sure all of you realize, even with the revelation of this info the terrorists will still use electronic bank transfers because of their ease.

I have no doubt that if we are hit again by a terrorist under the watch of the Bush Administration, that those of you that are defending the right of the newspapers to publish classified programs, making it harder to find terrorists, will scream the loudest wanting to know why the Administration didn't do more to protect us.

That's a lot of certainty for a hypothetical situation. Likewise, I am inclined to believe if we are hit again that those of you codemning the newspapers will blame the newspapers. So there will plenty of blame to go around.

I refuse to vote for George W. Bush in the 2008 election

And I refuse to vote for William J Clinton, you've convinced me as well.

(you KNOW they already have a mailing list with talking points --- funny, you don't see conservative sites doing that)

oh my, a mailing list? Really? like-minded people communicating with each other? how dare they! better get the NSA to tap those messages. and how do you know for sure that conservative sites don't do that as well? oh, that's right, you don't.

Fully paid up member of Townhouse.

Got proof? if making money by selling blog ads is your idea of "paid up", then what popular blogger isn't?

What none of you comment on though is the real basis of the link and the article. The fact that the Administration is trying to extend their power with little oversight. Wingers truly seem to believe that this Administration can do no wrong, but not all Americans believe that. As we've seen with the cherry-picking of intelligence leading up to the war, the current surveillance programs, Katrina, and a host of other issues, they are not to be trusted. And since the Republican majority is refusing to do their job and keep a watchful eye on them, the press is all that is left (pun somewhat intended).