Jay - Very good synopsis and analysis. How much would you charge to go to Philly and talk some sense into my liberal aunt ahead of the family reunion in august?

This post just smacks of racism.

You wingnuts just pick the side with the lightest colored skin, and that's who you support.

There's a racist under every leaf, isn't there? Jessee Jackson told me so.

Most of them Joooos, however, do not deliberately murder civilians, Bill. Jay Tea's article may be dealing in more reality than you give him credit for. I don't see much in his post to disagree with. I guess that makes me a wingnut, too.

I'm sorry - I don't get it.

I went back and re-read Jay's post...where's the racism that it "smacks" of? I just don't see it.

No, Bill, we pick the side of the legitinate country that's in the right, you pick the side of illegitimate barbarian terrorists that would kill you without a 2nd thought if you got in their way to the slightest degree. Or, at best, you humorously and childishly see them as having equivalent moral standing.

Metzger:Your post just smacks of idiocy.Many,many Isreali jews were driven out of other middle eastern countries and thus are at least as dark as any Lebanese Shiite.There are even a few who were rescued from Ethiopia a few years back-that's in Africa by the way.I would expect you proud enlightened members of the reality based community to already know all that and not embareass yourselves by making stupid webposts early in the morning-but thanks for the amusement anyway.

Metzger,

Pray tell, which side did you pick? And judging by the criteria which you have laid out so clearly and extensively, I guess which ever side you pick makes you a racist too.

Gee, I wonder what that makes us when we support East Indians against their Muslim aggressors? Wait a minute there! It couldn't be Islamic terrorism we're against, could it? Nah.

Smack the troll!

Geez, and I worried that my mention of Secretary Rice would provoke charges of SEXISM...

It just goes to prove you can't out-crazy the idiots.

J.

Bill Metzger:

This post just smacks of racism

Your post just smacks of an inability to read, analyze facts, and accept opinions other than your own.

George Bush March 8 2005: Today I have a message for the people of Lebanon"All the world is witnessing your great movement of conscience. Lebanon's future belongs in your hands. And by your courage Lebanon's future will be in your hands.

The American people are on your side. Millions across the Earth are on your side. The momentum of freedom is on your side. And freedom will prevail in Lebanon"
With over a million of citizens demonstrating in Beirut, the government of Lebanon pushed the Syrian army out (Bush and Israel are always still very careful to only attack Syria verbally..It is after all a big enemy, on tha axis of evil and could fight back)...A year later, having done Bush's bidding , courageous Lebanon and its citizens has now suddenly become very are expendable for the west, having fulfilled its role as symbol of the truimph of demcracy for the Bush Republican administration.. It was only a propt after all. Now it can becone another failed state in what Bernard Lewis the neo-con guru advocated for the region 'the Lebonization of the Mid -East '
Today July 20, The Prime Minister of Lebanon: What kind of life is being offered to us now

"I will tell you what kind: a life of destruction, despair, displacement, dispossession, and death.

"What kind of future can stem from the rubble?

"A future of fear, frustration, despair, financial ruin and fanaticism."

That's the beauty of this, Steve... As soon as Hezbollah is gone, Lebanon will be able to get serious amounts of aid to rebuild.

Just look the other way, and sneer while our ally with heavy tacit US support bombs them back to the stone age ..Last years' poster child for democracy and courage is expendable because a couple of soldiers were kidnapped...Bush's root cause..for the conflict.stretching back ages. Anyone else ready to take on Syria and see the gratitude of the US?

Um... Steve, you might have missed the news, but Hizbollah committed several acts of war against Israel a little while ago, such as invading Israel, killing several of their soldiers, and taking two hostage. They did this from Lebanese territory, and the Lebanese government did nothing to stop it or fix it. And since then, Hizbollah has been launching wave after wave of missiles and rockets indiscriminately all across the northern part of Israel, killing far more civilians than military personnel.

Now, in their defense, there really isn't much they can do; Hizbollah IS the de facto government over southern Lebanon. Israel's actions are aimed at making sure Hizbollah can't do that kind of thing again.

Listkeeper's got it right: there will be a LOT of help for Lebanon to rebuild, once Hizbollah has been destroyed or damaged enough to loosen their stranglehold on Lebanon. Until then, though, a significant portion of any "aid" to Lebanon will end up going into more and more terrorist attacks.

Come on, Steve. Join us in supporting the side that's fighting terrorists.

J.

Steve Clickmore,

What did you think Bush was talking about when he said "Lebanon's future belongs in your hands. And by your courage Lebanon's future will be in your hands."?

Nations speak with one voice or they are not nations. Lebanon simply can't allow Hezbollah to attack Israel from it's territory and then claim they are not responsible. The people and government of Lebanon should have had the courage to take control of their southern territory and stop Hezbollah's attacks on Israel.

If Lebanon didn't have the military power to take and keep control of their southern territory they were obligated to seek help from the U.N. or a coalition of the willing, should the U.N. fail in it's chartered duty yet again. The same countries that liberated Iraq would likely be willing to help Lebanon liberate itself from Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has a powerful political lobby in Lebanon and substantial military force. The IDF has a powerful political lobby in Israel and substantial military force. If you think Lebanon is not responsible for the actions of Hezbollah, then to be fair, you can't hold Israel responsible for the actions of the IDF. Or are you one of those who has different rules for different nations?

Yo Steve:
And Lebanon is whose country? I hear "Lebanese officials" cannot access certain Hezbullah areas. So who is running Lebanon? Certainly not the Lebanese. And if not them - who? Hezbullah.

So the day Lebanon asserts itself in Lebanon, then you may find yourself with something of value - until then, keep pounding the Peoples Republic of Hezbullah back to the stone age. By the way, that's about 20 years worth when you are talking about Islamotards!

Exactly Jay lets fight terrorists..full stop: not provide unnecessary ammunition for many more future terrorists..I am reminded what Condi Rice (ertswhile friend of the Lebanese people) who can't seem to find Lebanon on a map now, said in February " The United States, and the international community, stand with the Lebanese people as they work to reassert their independence and strengthen their democracy. We will not be deterred from supporting Lebanon's call for national dignity, truth, and justice."

I am sure you wouldn't agree that the only way to save a nation is to destroy it, echoing an earlier era, another controversial war. Even Dubya hopes the Lebanese government doesn't fall..but I am not sure the new Israel government is as circumspect or concerned.

I have avoided reading many articles about the current situation because I am Lebanese-American and found the hatred of Lebanon so upsetting. Thanks JTea for more understanding. Most Lebanese HATE Hezbollah and the impact it has had on our country.

by the way, I am blonde, blue eyed and my Mom is red headed and green eyed, Lebanese come in ALL colours!

Good gosh, Steve, you mean the Islamists could get ANGRIER at us? That they've just been holding back up until now?

You're dead right, Steve. We need to stop blowing up Hezbollah immediately. As soon as we do, I'm sure they'll stop firing missiles and rockets into Israel, give back the two soldiers they kidnapped, and apologize for all the Americans they've killed over the years.

How could we all have been so blind?

J.

LibraryLady:

I have avoided reading many articles about the current situation because I am Lebanese-American and found the hatred of Lebanon so upsetting

as far as I've seen, there hasn't been hatered of Lebanon itself, but of Hezbollah which infests the country (and people who support them.)

But, Bill Metzger, isn't it true that both Jews and Arabs are Semites? In which case, how would one tell which is lighter skinned?

Seems to me those who claim that being anti-Semitic means hating Jews and Arabs (b/c both are Semites) are providing cover against a charge of racism against the darker skinned, no?

Oooh look, another Jooo-Hating Moonbat!!

Steve,

So what did you think Rice meant when she said "We will not be deterred from supporting Lebanon's call for national dignity, truth, and justice."?

In the 21st Century every nation is responsible for the actions taken from it's territory. If a nation simply can't control it's territory because of an armed insurgency, then that nation is required to seek help, first from the U.N. and then from other nations.

So where was Lebanon's call to the U.N. for help in taking control of it's own territory before Israel took action to defend itself? Let's see that quote.

The world simply can't afford to let any nation allow an armed group to operate openly from it's territory and not be held responsible for that group's actions. To do so gives terrorists safe harbor in any nation they can bully into allowing them to operate from.

"We will not be deterred from supporting Lebanon's call for national dignity, truth, and justice."

Bold, just like you put it. I only say this - Lebanon's call for dignity, truth, and justice didn't seem to extend all the way to their own back yard. Once they were rid of Syria's stranglehold, their timid acceptance of Hezbollah's presence, doing nothing, not even condemning their presence with words, implied a tacit approval of Hezbollah's use of their own territory and submission to not even being permitted access to their own national territory.

How many ways must it be said for you to understand?

I had always thought that the American government's official policy was no negotiating with the terrorists and Hezbollah definitely qualifies at a terrorist group. It has also been the policy of the American government since the great liberal President Jimmy (peanut brain) Carter. Since when did the status of Hezbollah change from a terrorist organization to a legitimate government? Not in last 20+ years. This outfit has killed more people by terrorism than any other group, be they communists or Arab.

Of course the left in this country and around the world supports this organization and other groups, because they have the misbegotten idea, of what ever hurts the United States and its friends, is alright in their eyes.

Jay..The solution (if there is one) to build upon the resentment of people like LibraryLady's anger to Hezbollah..not diminish it., by punishing those that are caught up as pawns in the conflict. .You are probably right in your scarasm an Israeli white flag, or unilateral cease-fire would only encourage Hezbollah as much as an unlikely military defeat would make them martyrs. Israelis of course, have been abominiated in the Arab world, even before the birth of Israel. And I suppose the IDF have the freedom of feeling they have nothing left to lose in terms of Islam public opinion, but the US is not in that position, yet.
Mac lorry... It seems Lebanon had already done alot as Rice acknowledged in one year.. To disarm Hezbollah is no easy task..40% of Lebanon's population support Hezbollah ..It had recently emerged from destrutive civil war lasting over 20 years..even Israel recently couldn't disarm Hezbollah in its last invasion, and 'the great powers in the UN' were unwilling to enforce UN resolution 1599...Lebanon is paying the price as the world's whipping boy, for its geographical location and mixed population and having expelled the Syrian army. last year. Would Israel be bombing Beirut if the Syrian army (about 14,000 of them) were still in place in Lebanon.?. We will have to see what emerges when this chapter is over? I don't thing much will have changed except that Lebanon will have deterioated and Lebanese public anger will now be directed almost exclusively at Israel ( I hope I am proved wrong) whereas last year's huge public protests were directed at Syria.

To Steve the cricket--what Syrian army? Thier "army" is worst than France's-thier tanks have no forward gears.

From jpost:

Hizbullah has created a "state within a state" in Lebanon and must be disarmed, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said in an interview published Thursday in an Italian daily.

Saniora told Milan-based newspaper Corriere della Sera that the Shi'ite group has been doing the bidding of Syria and Iran, and that it can only be disarmed with the help of the international community and once a cease-fire has been achieved in the current Middle East fighting.

"It's not a mystery that Hizbullah answers to the political agendas of Teheran and Damascus," Saniora was quoted as saying by Corriere. "The entire world must help us disarm Hizbullah. But first we need to reach a cease-fire."

Steve,

No doubt Lebanon's situation is a tough one to be in. Yet if they want to be a sovereign nation, then they must control their own territory. If they are unable to do so on their own, then they are obligated to ask the U.N. or other nations for help. UN resolution 1599 is toothless, but if Lebanon specifically asks for U.N. intervention to help expel Hezbollah, they would get help. If not, then Lebanon would have a valid case against Israel bombing at least the northern half of Lebanon.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of Dana Olmert's protests until RedStayteColluge posted his/her link.

It was about this time that a journalist present discovered the identity of a young black-haired woman, who had made no effort to draw attention to herself: Dana Olmert, the Prime Minister's daughter and a long-time refuser and peace activist. She would have preferred to demonstrate as herself rather than her father's daughter. The media had other preferences, Yediot Aharonot placing her photo on its front page with the caption "Demonstrating against Papa". But... the sign she was carrying got into the front page, too: "Stop Murdering Civilians!"

If the Israeli Prime Minister's daughter is against the continued bombing of civilians and infrastructure in Lebanon, can we object to it without being labelled anti-semites? I doubt it, but anyway I agreed with Israel's strong response initially, but after a week it looks to be not just an attempt to strike a blow at Hezbollah, but also a punishment for the Lebanese people.

It's strange to me that so many people on this blog and other right-wing blogs loudly cheered the Lebanese when they threw out the Syrians and held fair elections, but are now cheering the inevitable destruction of that fledgling government (how they can survive this I cannot fathom). It seems the commitment to democracy in the Middle East takes a backseat when there's bombs that need dropping.

I'm all for killing as many members of Hezbollah as possible, but what good does destroying the civil infrastructure in Lebanon do? What good could possibly come from killing civilians in their homes? Does anyone believe that this will take support away from Hezbollah in Lebanon, rather than add to it? Or do you actually believe that after the Israeli military is finished Hezbollah will be no more?

Mac, read the post directly above your last.

O.K. Mantits, a few questions...

1.) Who tells Hezbollah about the cease fire, and who gets them to adhere to it?

2.) Why do you think Lebanon is being 'punished'? Could it just be the result of their failure to execute 1559, and that Steve thinks 40% of them SUPPORT Hezbollah?

3.) If 40% DO support Hezbollah, are we actually killing civilians, or supporters? Or does this just switch back and forth depending wether they're on offense or defense?

4.) If everything is so horrible in Lebanon, why do only 8,000 or so of 25,000 Americans choose to leave at (presumably) their own peril? If the Israelis are 'indiscriminately bombing civilians, why not more casualties?

No one is cheering the 'inevitable destruction' of Lebanon. THose are your words. We are cheering the Israeli willingness to do the unpopular (with the lunatic fringe) to secure their nation.

So little faith in democracy. You think a few bombs are going to make people who have tasted freedom regress to religious authority?

Lebanon had already done alot as Rice acknowledged in one year.. To disarm Hezbollah is no easy task..40% of Lebanon's population support Hezbollah

Kind of like how 33% of this country supports our dear leader. Too bad Israel isn't our neighbor so that they can come in and destroy our infrastructure in order to oust Bush.

Who tells Hezbollah about the cease fire, and who gets them to adhere to it?

I don't think anyone would need to tell them about a cease fire, in fact I don't think a cease fire is necessary. I say bomb the shit out of Hezbollah bases in the South. But Hezbollah doesn't control the Beirut airport. Hezbollah doesn't control the highways in northern Lebanon.

Why do you think Lebanon is being 'punished'? Could it just be the result of their failure to execute 1559, and that Steve thinks 40% of them SUPPORT Hezbollah?

Sure, it would have been a piece of cake for them to get rid of Hezbollah, they could have just waved their magic wand and poof! they're gone, right? Did you read the PM's quote above, where he admits they cannot defeat Hezbollah on their own?

If 40% DO support Hezbollah, are we actually killing civilians, or supporters? Or does this just switch back and forth depending wether they're on offense or defense?

This is the position that rankles me the most, all civilians are actually complicit and therefore "the enemy". You do realize that is the exact same position that terrorists take towards civilians, don't you?

If everything is so horrible in Lebanon, why do only 8,000 or so of 25,000 Americans choose to leave at (presumably) their own peril? If the Israelis are 'indiscriminately bombing civilians, why not more casualties?

I'd like to know where you get those numbers. I'd also like to note that I never wrote indiscriminately.

No one is cheering the 'inevitable destruction' of Lebanon.

I said of the new Lebanese government, not Lebanon. Do you think they will survive this? Who do you think will replace them if they don't?

So little faith in democracy. You think a few bombs are going to make people who have tasted freedom regress to religious authority?

So little knowledge of history in the Middle East.

Anyway, if you bother to respond again, please try to read what I wrote, you misrepresented it several times in your comment.