« Terrorists Kill Iraqi Children Playing Soccer in Baghdad | Main | Boston Globe falls for "fake but accurate" memo »

Mocking Mel -- the right and wrong ways

Everyone, it seems, is having a field day with Mel Gibson's DWI arrest and drunken tirade against the "F'ing Jews." Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, Conan O'Brien, Jay Leno, David Letterman -- they all must be thanking their lucky stars for this latest brouhaha that ought to keep thim in material for weeks.

Even I got into the act. A Boston talk show invited people to call in and defend Gibson, so I took them up on the challenge. I defended Gibson's use of the phrase "F'ing Jews." I pointed out to the hosts (one of whom is rather proudly Jewish) that a significant percentage of the leading figures in the adult film industry are of the Hebrew persuasion, and I would not be a bit surprised if Ron Jeremy or Nina Hartley (main page PG-13, the rest most likely NSFW) listed "F'ing Jew" on their resume's.

But not all humorists are created equal. Some have taken Gibson's fall from grace and gone in very unfunny ways.

Including one person right here at Wizbang.

Over at the Bomb Squad, the highly-prolific John Lillpop decided to write about Mel's accusations of the Jews being the cause of so many of the world's problems. He did this by repeating them, then going on to basically list a bunch of the standard anti-Semitic talking points about how terrible the Jews were. He tried to shake that off by tagging it with the "Humor" label, but it really fell flat -- it was the equivalent of saying "just kidding" after saying something horribly offensive.

The problem was that there was no real attempt to wring humor out of it -- and there was plenty to be had. There was no hyperbole involved -- he didn't blame the Jews for the current heat wave. He didn't link New Orleans and the flooding caused by Katrina as the work of some crazed Jew who wanted to be the next Moses and trying to part the floodwaters. He didn't even bring up the old gag about blaming the Jews for the Titanic. ("Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference?")

And now that I've written all this, I go and see that the piece in question is gone. I don't know if Lillpop himself pulled it, or if Kevin went in and deleted it (I spoke with him about it earlier, and it's too late now to call him and ask), but please take my word for it -- his piece was all I said it was, and more.


Comments (36)

To quote Adam Sandler, that... (Below threshold)
Imhotep:

To quote Adam Sandler, that Nina Hartley is "one fine lookin' Jew". ;)

Yeah, I read that too. It ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Yeah, I read that too. It was filed under humor, but I just didn't get the joke. And what a rich source of material too.

How about trying to explain how exactly the Jews are responsible for starting say, the US Civil War, the Trojan War (Paris was secretly Jewish, just like Orlando Bloom), Star Wars (who do you think the Jedi are anyway?), the first Sino-Japanese War (Actually a fight over a Mah-jong game).

Hmmmm.Frankly I co... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

Frankly I consider all this over Mel Gibson to be utter bullshit. A lot of people say stupid things when they're drunk off their ass, Gibson is no different. On top of which there are plenty of people who have said things as bad, or worse, who have never paid any sort of price for their words

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymie

Remember this by Jesse Jackson?

Or how about Al Sharpton? One of the 2004 Democratic Presidental candidates?

Or how about Louis Farrakan? Or Malcom X? Both rabid anti-semites. Yet the latter is lionized and the former is hardly plastered all over every single newspaper and news show.

Or shall we go further afield then?

Sen. Robert Byrd who spoke of "white niggers".

Or California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante who used to the word "nigger" to describe blacks ... TO and audience of blacks. And yet was quickly forgiven. In fact he was forgiven so fast the newspapers had to include both the original story and the forgiveness by the NAACP.

...

Personally I'm a little curious as to why the deputy decided to spend the time to write down Mel Gibson's drunken tirade rather than getting Gibson into the police station. Considering just how extensive this written record of the tirade is, well over one full page when it was displayed on tv, didn't the deputy have anything better to do?

I've known a lot of cops I can't say that I've ever heard of any instance where the arresting officer of a DUI suspect made the considerable effort to handwrite that drunk's words.

As for my final word: Saying stupid shit about jews isn't anti-semitism. It's just saying stupid shit.

You want to see actual anti-semitism? Look at Lebanon. Is what Mel Gibson did approach Hezbollah's crimes?

Ok. Now show me where every single fucking news rag and show condemned Hezbollah as harshly and as often as they condemned Mel Gibson.

You want to see actual a... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You want to see actual anti-semitism? Look at Lebanon. Is what Mel Gibson did approach Hezbollah's crimes?

Ok. Now show me where every single fucking news rag and show condemned Hezbollah as harshly and as often as they condemned Mel Gibson.

Agreed that the two are not even remotely the same thing, but it's still anti-semitism. And anyway the reason it gets so much news coverage is the news media are all celebrity whores, and while it's no surprise that Hezbollah hates Jews, it is a surprise that Gibson does (unless you saw The Passion, that is). ;)

And don't forget that the J... (Below threshold)

And don't forget that the Joos were responsible for Pearl Harbor. I mean, the go sign was "Torah! Torah! Torah!"

Letterman is re-runs this w... (Below threshold)
jjt:

Letterman is re-runs this week. I'm sure he'd be pounding away if live, and even as a strong Gibson fan, he should be!

I am so ticked off that the... (Below threshold)
Candy:

I am so ticked off that the same Hollywood condemning Mel Gibson is also condemning Israel for defending themselves. Your average actor checks himself (or herself) into rehab and no one blinks an eye. I don't condone his actions - but neither does Mel.

I was moved to tears watching The Passion when, on more than one occasion, a Jew comes to Jesus' aid as he struggles to carry the cross. That's the image of Jews that I have burned into my memory after seeing the movie countless times.

Off topic, but still to be filed under the "Scapegoat" category (or, as Jaytea so eloquently put it, "Asshats") - would any of you believe that a teacher in my district actually blamed Bush for the weather today? We hit 99 here today, and when I made a comment about how hot it was out in the hallway, and how lucky we were to have air conditioning, she replied "And yet that man who is the president says that there is no such thing as Global Warming".

Some people are just responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong in this country, and I think George and Mel top the list. If I find out what those jerks did with every other sock in my laundry, I'm going to flip out!

I don't know if Lillpop ... (Below threshold)

I don't know if Lillpop himself pulled it, or if Kevin went in and deleted it

It must have been the former, because it wasn't the latter...

Everyone has lost sight of ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Everyone has lost sight of the facts. Mel is a Holywood actor and producer. Don't like what he said, don't go to his movies nor support him in any way. Basically as Holywood goes he is soon to be washed up anyway. Maybe like Bab's the leftie nut, he'll hang around to make a bigger fool of himself.
He actually has '0' effect on our lives if we don't want him to, unlike the criminal Kennedy's who both were and are members of the congress making decisions daily that effect all of our lives today and in the future. Put things in prospective or you become a low life like the dimorats.

I wonder if Mel has said th... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I wonder if Mel has said that all the wars in the world are caused by zionists instead of jews, would he be in trouble now?

I mean I've seen some lefties go off on zionism and say virtually the same thing Mel did only they used Zionist instead.

By coincidence, right now at 5 AM EST I'm watching MSNBC and the anchor just introduced a segment essentially saying that the US relationship with Israel costs the US around the world.

When I first heard that particular remark, I thought Mel was just echoing popular leftiwood sentiment about zionism except he slipped and said jews instead of zionists.

Mel was obviously in self-d... (Below threshold)

Mel was obviously in self-destruct mode at the time of the incident. While he may have been accurately describing his own opinion, he just as easily could have been spouting off lines (he is an actor, remember) designed to do the most damage to himself and his career as possible. Ya know, virtually slashing his arteries. It's not like he hasn't portrayed a few self-destructive types in the movies before.

Picking up and running with one possibility or the other at this point in time is gratuitous.

In no coverage that I have ... (Below threshold)
gnfishn:

In no coverage that I have seen about Mel's tirade has it been mentioned that just maybe Mel was returning a little flak that he received from the Jewish comm. about The Passion. It was, after all ,"his passion".

I am sick of this story. A ... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

I am sick of this story. A sober guy in Seattle actually shoots people because they are Jews and the media are wallowing in this story about Gibson. Giving credence to Mel's comments while hammered is giving credence to every drunk idiot's comments in the world.

Ever heard Brad Paisley's song "Alcohol"? Ever wake up next to someone you didn't know? Ever find unexplained bruises or cuts? New dent in your car? Where the hell did I get this new tatoo? That frozen concocction....

And of course, let's not fo... (Below threshold)
cmd:

And of course, let's not forget the Crone of Chappaqua's own gentle teasing of an aide as a "f***ing Jew bastard." Funny how she gets a pass, too, isn't it?

But I will say that watching the lefties drool over Mel's carcass makes me laugh my ass off. I've said for years that the Democrat party was at its core anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic, and it took the 2000 and 2004 elections to kick over the rock that all these swine were hiding under. What they're saying about Gibson and Lieberman and Hezbollah are what they really believe - religious people have no right to participate in public office and Hitler was a man ahead of his time.

(looks at watch). . .hmm. Mak44 ought to be here any time to tell us how the Jews are beaming their Zionist mind-control rays into Jane Hamsher's head and made her create that blackface pic of Joe Lieberman.

It isn't suprising to see M... (Below threshold)
Lee:

It isn't suprising to see Mel Gibson, the darling of the religious right being roundly defended by the anti-semitics here on Wizbang - the same anti-semites who routinely condemn the left for its supposed anti-zionism.

The hypocrosy is amazing, but not surprising - not at all. The religious right lies through their teeth to attain their goals. They are no less fantatics than Hezbollah or Hamas, now that they openly call for the murder of allies and Americans who are in their way.

Here is just how bad Mel Gibson really is:

Mel Gibson in His Own Words
Posted: February 9, 2004

Gibson on Jews and The Passion of the Christ

"To be certain, neither I nor my film is anti-Semitic…'The Passion' is a movie meant to inspire, not offend…My intention in bringing it to the screen is to create a lasting work of art and engender serious thought among audiences of diverse faith backgrounds (or none) who have varying familiarity with this story.

"If the intense scrutiny during my 25 years in public life revealed I had ever persecuted or discriminated against anyone based on race or creed, I would be all too willing to make amends. But there is no such record.

"Nor do I hate anybody -- certainly not the Jews...They are my friends and associates, both in my work and social life. Thankfully, treasured friendships forged over decades are not easily shaken by nasty innuendo.

"Anti-Semitism is not only contrary to my personal beliefs, it is also contrary to the core message of my movie…For those concerned about the content of this film, know that it conforms to the narratives of Christ's passion and death found in the four Gospels of the New Testament…This is a movie about faith, hope, love and forgiveness -- something sorely needed in these turbulent times."

Daily Variety, June 12, 2003

The anti-semite blurts out the truth while drunk - but he whores himself to further his cause.

There's more...


"I want to kill him…I want his intestines on a stick. . . . I want to kill his dog."

On New York Times reporter Frank Rich, who wrote an
early article about The Passion of the Christ.
The New Yorker, September 15, 2003

and these:

"There is a [spiritual] dark force that didn't want us to make the film. It's so completely palpable while you're doing it."

EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network), January 24, 2004
-----

"I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor…But I really feel my career was leading me to make [The Passion of the Christ]. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize."

TheDenverChannel.com, June 27, 2003
------

"There is no salvation for those outside the Church…I believe it."

The New Yorker, September 15, 2003

Looks to me like he's just another right-wing jew hater, whoring himself to further his conservative Christian cause...

What a moron!Could y... (Below threshold)
DavidB:

What a moron!
Could you have used any more generalities and lack of substance?
You are a waste of human flesh from which garbage spews forth.

I know that there are a lot... (Below threshold)
Candy:

I know that there are a lot of evil-doers in history - and currently - who really do hate Jews and call themselves Christians. I just wish it wouldn't rub off on those of us who love the Jews and have nothing against them. I am a proud defender of Jews & Israel. Jesus, my savior, was a Jew descended from Abraham, Jacob, David... Their Torah is my Old Testament - a book I love and read every day.

Please - regardless of how hateful you are - try to realize that many good people, Christian or not, love Jewish people. I'm sure this will either be preached to the choir or fall on deaf ears, but I had to make an attempt to get through.

Regarding Mel Gibson and The Passion of the Christ - just based on what that movie did for my faith and what I saw it do for the faith of others - I said it earlier today and I'll say it again. The Jews in the movie who were everyday folk like me loved Jesus and wept as he was hanging on the cross.

He proclaimed Himself to be the Son of God, and that repelled many of the Jews who wanted him killed for his arrogance. Do we hate them for their ignorance? Well, what did He say? "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

Ok, I'm stepping down off the soap box. Once again, please don't judge me for being a Christian against anyone who hates and proclaims to be one.

mantis informs: "and while ... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

mantis informs: "and while it's no surprise that Hezbollah hates Jews, it is a surprise that Gibson does (unless you saw The Passion, that is). ;)"

Gee, let's talk about racism ... and while it's no surprise that Bill Clinton pretends he's black to cover up the omission of blacks in his cabinet, it is a surprise that Lieberman is portrayed as Al Jolson to suggest blacks are a gullible folk primed for the coming election. Thanks for your compelling juxtaposition, mantis. I hope you like mine. I know it's a non sequitur but what was your point? You watched Mel's epic and the slur is not really a surprise or is it? I guess I'd agree that surprises aren't really surprises when you're above it all ;)

Personally, I find those wh... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Personally, I find those who hate Jews, particularly Christians, to be among the world's biggest hypocites. They deny/ignore that Jesus was Himself a Jew, thus making any Christian after him, by default, a Jew. In short, they deny/ignore their true legacy. There are many points where Jews and Christians differ, no doubt—the adherence to ritual, recognizing Christ as the Savior and Messiah are just two. Yet regardless of the differences, I too am a proud supporter of Jews and Israel because they have played a key part in my religious beliefs and faith throughout the millenia. If not for the Jews, there is no Jesus and I have no salvation, no forgiveness for my sins and, worst of all, no hope.

As for Mel's stupid, thoughtless and, yes, anti-Semitic remarks.... the two big questions seem to be "Are a drunk man's words a sober man's thoughts?"; and does that make/confirm that "The Passion" was somehow anti-Semitic? Decidedly no on both accounts. If anything, Mel's recent remarks confirm just how clearly he did NOT want the movie to be or viewed as being anti-Semitic even if he himself carried some deep-seeded, anti-semitic feelings that arose during a drunken stuppor—yet none of which reared it up in "The Passion" At all. Period. (Personally, I think the movie focused too heavily on Christ's suffering versus his more triumphant Resurrection, but that's Hollywood for you. Understanding and comprehending His suffering is certainly important, but it is NOT the ultimate lesson of the Passion.)

And "boycotting" Mel is just flatout dumb. The man issued a heartfelt apology and asked for forgiveness. As a good Christian, give it to him without strings.

That, and a 100 Hail Marys should do the trick.

"and while it's no surpr... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

"and while it's no surprise that Hezbollah hates Jews, it is a surprise that Gibson does (unless you saw The Passion, that is). ;)"

Smarmy and trite, but not even close to being true.

Lee preaches: "The religiou... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Lee preaches: "The religious right lies through their teeth to attain their goals."

As Ann Coulter points out in one of her numerous NYT-list bestsellers, the 'religious right' is a fiction created by the libs. No one can quantify 'religious right' even as a voting bloc. Care to try? Didn't think so.

"No one can quantify 're... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"No one can quantify 'religious right' even as a voting bloc. Care to try? Didn't think so"

Sure, asshat, quantify this

Christian Coalition of America was founded in 1989 by Dr. Pat Robertson and has become the largest conservative grassroots organization in the country with over 2.5 million supporters in United States and internationally.

Now I get it - Red Fog is just a sockpuppet for Mak44, who is posing as a republican and posting inane remarks in order to make conservatives look stupid... right?

Why do you libs refer to th... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Why do you libs refer to this vast 'religious right' group if it's just the nascent Christian Coalition of only 2.5 million run by your dad? Ann Coulter wants to know.

Wow. Stop chewing with that berry-stained pie hole and try again, fatback. Duhhhh, Lee's lib defense mantra is broke. Waaaaaah!

Jeez, you are a moron, almo... (Below threshold)
DavidB:

Jeez, you are a moron, almost without equal.

Considering that the US population is over 295 million, 2.5 million internationally is less then a drop in the bucket. In fact, it's hardly worth mentioning, but leave it to you to try and use this weak ass number as proof of something.

You failed, but you can try again to quantify what the "religious right" is. I don't expect you to be any more successful.

Smarmy and trite, but no... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Smarmy and trite, but not even close to being true.

You don't think the movie was anti-semitic? How come all of the "good" Jews (read: followers of Christ) were played by attractive Italians and all of the "bad" Jews were stereotypical big-nosed swarthy types with yellow teeth and ugly faces? How come he based much of it on the writings of a 19th century anti-semitic nun? How come Pilate is portrayed as a weakling bullied by the evil Jewish cabal when historical documents paint a very different picture of the brutal man, for whom public execution was like light afternoon entertainment? How come Gibson was so selective in what he used, not sticking to any particular gospel, thus magnifying the blame on the Jews?

The movie's imagery is classically anti-semitic, it's cherry-picking of the Gospels amplifies the guilt of the Jews, and it's ignorance of contemporaneous historical documents is meant to absolve the Roman ruler and place the blame directly on the Jews. It is anti-semitic in the classic mold, which is no surprise coming from a Catholic who rejects Vatican II.

Yeah, how stupid to think t... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Yeah, how stupid to think that there are Christians in America who identify themselves as being conservative, who tend to vote as a block, who lobby their constituents by appealing to pastors, priests and ministers, who have adopted similar anti-abortion arguments, who despise the NEA and the ACLU on principle, who distrust the mainstream media (imagine that!) and repeatedly talk about the disconnect between Hollywood and the American people -- how dumb can you be?

Obviously, anyone who holds (and expresses) such a worldview must be dismissed as marginal, an extremist fuckwit dissasociated from mainstream America.

And you know what? They are.

I think that the ADL and Me... (Below threshold)

I think that the ADL and Mel are made for each other. The ADL is at least as bigoted toward Christians as Mel seems to be toward Jews. Maybe they can learn to actually not hate one another. Old Abe's got no excuse. Even if you overlook the crucifiction of Jesus (which Christians are supposed to), the Jews started the pissing match between Jews and Christians (Hebrew and gentile alike). Time for both sides to sit down, have a beer and leave that $hit in the past.

mantis,I was mean to... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

mantis,
I was mean to you yesterday and today. Your points regarding the film are valid and informative.

Hey, most people here are m... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Hey, most people here are mean to me. Don't sweat it. ;)

Actually, I was mean to you yesterday too so we're even. As for being above it all, on this issue I certainly am not. I was raised Catholic but am a quarter Jewish, and this kind of thing really burns me up. I grew up hearing crap about how the Jews killed Christ and will burn in hell, etc, and it pissed me off to hear so-called Christians essentially tell me my grandmother was evil. So I'll take sides on this one; I'm on the side with rational, tolerant religious folks (even though I'm not religious). We don't need to look very far to see the path down which religious intolerance leads. So there, now you know a little about me, but I'm still not a Democrat.

mantis:First, I be... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

mantis:

First, I believe your questions surrounding the cast and the make-up of the characters is largely a) a matter of personal perspective (i.e., the Disciples were somehow clean, and the Jews were dirty) and b) a matter of coincidence on casting. But I don't believe it's a form of typecasting or subconscious sterotyping.

Peter was hardly attractive, fat, dishelved and overweight. Neither was Judas. Peasants were portrayed as peasants, dirty and unclean. The Pharisees are quite well-dressed and presentable, as were other Jews. Frankly, the devil was quite attractive (deceptively and deliberately so!). If anybody, and I mean anybody was typecast, it was the Roman centurions with their big yellow teeth and brutish and bloody ways. (But even this casting makes sense as the Romans had not yet been introduced to Christ by St. Paul. They were, in a sense, Godless at this point in time.)The movie made a very good effort at depciting the deep societal divisions at the time of Christ. More importantly, the unwashed masses, as it were, were exactly the people Christ associated with (and saved) the most—lepers, whores, the blind, the sick, the downtrodden, rejected (the Samartian woman at the well!) These people were not sanitized; this is who Jesus came to give Redemption. To attempt to portray or protract some sort of subliminal or outright anti-semitism from Gibson's portryal is just not grounded in historical or Biblical reality.

How come Pilate is portrayed as a weakling bullied by the evil Jewish cabal when historical documents paint a very different picture of the brutal man, for whom public execution was like light afternoon entertainment?

What's missing from most Passion plays and movies is context--especially after the Passion and subsequent Resurrection, IMHO. But for the purpose of addressing this topic I'll stick to the pretext.

No doubt Pilate was a cruel governor, but in true historical fact he had slaughtered some 5,000 Passover pilgrims in an effort to quell a rebellion the year before (or shortly before) Christ's final visit. Pilate, knowing the memory of those events were still fresh in the minds and hearts of the Jews, was not about to piss them off during another Passover. Yet Pilate offered this (from John):

"You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him."

So was he "weakened bully" here? Not really. Indifferent, sure. Heartless, if you want to go there, OK. But Pilate is being based on Biblical text.

Pilate dilemna continues further in John:

"Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again.
But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

(This request for Jesus to be crucified appears in all the gospels.)

Christ's infractions against the Jews—working on the Sabbath, fishing, working and so on—were meaningless to the Romans. By no means was Christ threatening or challenging the Romans power or authority directly. He wasn't an "imminent threat".

The widely held belief among theologians is that Pilate turned Christ over to the Pharisees as an act of appeasement to quell another potential uprising/rebellion during Passover. To appease the crowd, Pilate offered up Barabas as was traditional during the Feast (see Mark's gospel). The Pharisees rejected that of course, demanding for Christ. Pilate obliged. Why? Political opportunism, really. For Christ, Pilate gets a quiet, relatively peaceful and bloodless Passover. So it's a done deal, Pilate sees the opportunity and hands Christ "over". (Although, technically speaking, the Romans were charged with carrying out crucifixtions.)

And it says so right in Mark's Gospel:

"Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified."

Oops for humanity.

How come Gibson was so selective in what he used, not sticking to any particular gospel, thus magnifying the blame on the Jews?...The movie's imagery is classically anti-semitic, it's cherry-picking of the Gospels amplifies the guilt of the Jews

Why is it important to stick to any one Gospel? It's not. Why? They all tell same story, only from slightly different perspectives; some elaborate more than others on events, but that's not inherently anti-semitic. Put together they tell the whole story of the Passion. So it is irrelevant which gospel is used. In fact, a greater perspective of the Passion is gained when all four are used. None of which "magnifies" any more blame on the Jews. It does not demonize further.

What was Gibson supposed to do? Change the Gospels and who called for Jesus to be crucified? That's asking to re-write history and the Bible. That's just silly.

Is it true the Jews called for Jesus to be crucified? Yes. Is it true that Pilate was accountable in Christ's death? Yes. But what happens on the Cross is one of the most important lessons of all time:

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do."

Who is "them"? Jews? Romans? No, ALL of mankind. Forgive them, ALL of them. Jews (especially forgive them because Jesus was sent by the Father to save them!), Romans, everyone. Even in my great pain, in my worst hour, Jesus is saying, 'Abba, forgive everything they do'. And if Christ can forgive all of "them" then surely we can forgive any transgressions made by others. (Easier said than done for we mere mortals, and our greatest challenge as Christians, I might add.)

How come he based much of it on the writings of a 19th century anti-semitic nun?

My wife's uncle is a Monsignor in the Vatican, currently leading the investigation into the beatification of Mother Theresa (he's been on 60 Minutes, The History Channel, Nova, CNN, etc....not to drop names, just to demonstrate credibility). I too asked him this direct question: Did you see of this nun's influence in the movie? While he acknowledged that Gibson does follow this nun's teachings, he did not see influence in the movie to any large extent. (Christ being tempted by Satan was one instance he thought was a tad off. And there was something else, but I can't remember what exactly, but it wasn't a major scene.)

Lastly, there are a lot of Catholics who don't believe in Vatican II (I'm not one of them), and that's their business. If Mel wants to do that, fine. But did The Passion depict any sort of blantant and newfound anti-semitism? Not even close.

If it's anti-semitism you want, look no further than the current situation in the Middle East—unrestrained, unfounded (largely) and ungodly hatred of the Jews. But don't look at Mel Gibson and pretend he's the source of the disease or that there was something deeply sinister in The Passion because you're wrong. Just plain wrong.

I grew up hearing crap a... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

I grew up hearing crap about how the Jews killed Christ and will burn in hell, etc, and it pissed me off to hear so-called Christians essentially tell me my grandmother was evil.

You're right, mantis. That is a bunch of crap. And those people are ignorant. I slapped a friend once for calling Jews "Christ killers". And I would do again without regret if I ever heard it again. That vileness need not be tolerated.

I was raised Catholic...

Uh-oh, I smell a former Catholic! LOL. Now I'm going to get it for my long post of preaching to the "I know that already, you don't have to tell ME" crowd.

I'm on the side with rational, tolerant religious folks (even though I'm not religious).

Amazingly there are LOTS of us out there. More so than you think. (I'm just intolerant of Islamofacists who want to kill me.)

Peter F. - BRILLIANT. And t... (Below threshold)
Candy:

Peter F. - BRILLIANT. And thank you. You said it like I would have if I were able.

I loved the movie. And you are correct about the Romans being portrayed as disgusting and heartless. I mentioned that to my husband when all the talk of anti-Semitism came up surrounding The Passion.

AS AN ITALIAN, I AM OUTRAGED!!! :) Where is the ACLU when we Italians are being condemned?

Candy:Thanks!... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Candy:

Thanks!

Your comments had my wife (who's also Italian) in absolute stitches!

Peter F. your comments were... (Below threshold)

Peter F. your comments were somewhat correct. The gnostic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) DO tell the same story from a different prespective. John, however, is different, it is from a theological perspective. That is one of the reasons (I think) the 4 gospels were chosen as "The Gospels", and not others. Matthew was writing to Jews, to demonstrate he WAS the Messiah, hence all the Old Testament references (he quotes Isaiah a lot). Mark was the first written, hence why it is the shortest and easiest to read. Luke was writing to Gentiles, and he was most likely a doctor himself, hence why his gospel focuses mostly on the miracles, the curing of the lame and such. John, was written last (of the 4) and has the most theological references, and isn't even written in chronological order!

(Just to point out, Acts of the Apostles was most probably written by the same person who wrote Luke, you can tell the continuation of the miracles, as well as the easy continuation of the story from the end of Luke to the beginning of Acts.)

I went to a Catholic High School, and I learned this from a Jesuit Priest if I remember correctly.

You can also read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

Henry:Thanks for t... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Henry:

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't feel the need to go into those details for the sake of my argument, but I am aware their backgrounds.

For the record: As a fan of simplicity, and because he was essentially Jesus' biographer (as it were), I like Mark.

Jay Tea, Good read. ... (Below threshold)
t.jolen:

Jay Tea,
Good read. Humour writers are an awesome breed. I thought exactly the same as you. When drunken Mel slurred nasty Jew remarks, I assumed he was pissed at Jew's in the film industry (not all F'ing Jews in general). Some F'ing Jew producer must have recently screwed him over for a few million and he took it out on the tequila. He could've toilet papered the person's home, thrown a hotel phone at his head, or shoved a banana (kiwi) up their car tailpipe. Getting drunk when your pissed and have been had, "f'ing" flying down the ocean drive in your fast, sweet ride, and chatting with cops later...seems normal to me.
traci
ps. "f'ing" is so great!




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy