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More Bush Hating Castro Loving From Rangel

David Hogberg posted at the American Spectator blog the following exchange between Congressman Charlie Rangel and Neil Cavuto:

CAVUTO: Well, are you saying you're for Castro?
RANGEL: No. I want a democratic change. But I don't believe dancing in the street and spreading out money in Havana and in Miami is the a way to do it.

CAVUTO: Charlie, this guy killed a lot of people.

RANGEL: Well, I wonder how many people we killed at Guantanamo. I mean, we don't have the human rights record.

CAVUTO: Well, wait -- wait a minute. Are you equating Fidel Castro with what's happening at Guantanamo?

RANGEL: You bet your life, if we're -- if we are talking about human rights.

CAVUTO: So, President Bush is just like Fidel Castro?

RANGEL: No. But what I'm saying is, if you want to talk about the inhuman human rights that Castro has, in arresting people and not presenting them with why they were arrested, not giving them lawyers, and having a secret trial, hey, we're doing the same thing...



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Comments (36)

I understand that Castro do... (Below threshold)
Lizzie:

I understand that Castro does in fact let people know why they're arrested and imprisoned, and the reason's usually along the lines of "You said something I don't like" rather than "We caught you fighting for the other side Afghanistan". If Bush really was like Castro, Rangel would be in jail by now. (Not to mention Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, etc.)

PIMF - Should be "the other... (Below threshold)
Lizzie:

PIMF - Should be "the other side in Afghanistan"

Oh, please don't let the de... (Below threshold)
Charles Bannerman:

Oh, please don't let the democrats take the majority so Rangle will quit. What an idiot he is.
Chuck

To use Mr. Rangel's incisiv... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

To use Mr. Rangel's incisive logic, "I wonder how many people (Mr. Rangel personally) killed at Guantanamo"? Or, "I wonder how many little boys Mr. Rangel has molested in the last week?" You get away with any ridiculous accusation you want if you preface it with "I wonder" and not be called on it. Typical Senatorial Slime.

More to the point, I wonder how many unsubstatiated and outrageous claims Mr. Rangel will make to get himself re-elected. This is political theater, just like Hillary's public insults to Rumsfeld in last week's testimony, and Kerry's "This wouldn't have happened if I was President, mon amis!"

...mes amis...... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

...mes amis...

"....if you want to talk ab... (Below threshold)
Larry:

"....if you want to talk about the inhuman human rights that Castro has, in arresting people and not presenting them with why they were arrested, not giving them lawyers, and having a secret trial, hey, we're doing the same thing..."


Thank goodness for the Charlie Rangels of the world. Telling it like it is. What about that is not true? The tip of the iceberg of this war criminal administration. The truth will out as it always does and even some of you wingnuts will be ashamed of the criminals running this country

Thank goodness for the C... (Below threshold)
tob928:

Thank goodness for the Charlie Rangels of the world.

Indeed. Only more exposure of the Rangels of the Democratic party will save the Republicans from their own ineptness.

Tob

Because Larry doesn't know ... (Below threshold)

Because Larry doesn't know what the people being held in Gitmo have done, he assumes they're innocent, or on a par with the people of Cuba who are imprisoned for speaking their minds. Larry, move to Cuba, try it out for a while. And let us know what the truth is there.

Thank goodness fo... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Thank goodness for the Charlie Rangels of the world. Telling it like it is.

I wish the lefties would just be upfront and honest and tell us all exactly what their true thoughts and intentions were. You know, tell it like it is. It seems they have to dance around every issue because they know the majority of Americans would dismiss them from the word “go”.

For example, lefties were more than happy to believe every Democrat that told us Iraq was threat with WMD. But lefties call President Bush a liar when he says it, not that they never believed it them selves, but because they have to stay in opposition in hopes of creating their socialist state.

Lefties have never been fiscally responsible with “other peoples money”, yet now all you ever here are lefties complaining about spending to stay in opposition with the President.

I could keep going on like the Energizer Bunny with examples of what lefties were for, but then against when they were not in power.

This is the kind of honesty I love from a lefty that is willing to tell it like it is………………..

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas, six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate and one of the founders of the ACLU.

Thank-you Norman for having the guts to tell it like it is.

If Bush is like Castro, why... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

If Bush is like Castro, why isn't Rangel in Gitmo?

GarandFan: "If Bush is l... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

GarandFan: "If Bush is like Castro, why isn't Rangel in Gitmo?"

Because the Gitmo lockup is reserved for people who have information we are trying to get. Rangel doesn't know SHIT!

Where is Rangel mistaken he... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Where is Rangel mistaken here? Is he for Castro? NO. He wants a democratic change. Where's the problem there? Guantanamo is filled with many kinds of people. Some are probably bad dudes who wish us harm and can be considered enemy combatants. Too bad we'll never get much useful intel from them because we continue to use methods that have proven to be ineffective. There are also those who are just some poor schmucks who were ronded up in some kind of sweep and are still trying to figure out what hit them. They have been deprived the rights that we are so insistent that (select) other countries abide by. My feeling is that the incompetent morons running the show no longer know who is who so they just keep on with the status quo.

"So President Bush is just like Fidel Castro?" "No"
There is is folks. Rangel is NOT saying Bush is just like Castro. He's merely making a point. It's a matter of degree, but it is also a fact that we are employ practices for our own ends that we criticize in other countries. If we are holding and mistreating people who we can't identify as our enemy then we're a little less morally superior to Castro. It's not that difficult a point.

Where exactly does Rangel say he hates Bush? I guess I missed that part.

groucho: "Rangel is NOT ... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

groucho: "Rangel is NOT saying Bush is just like Castro."

no...he is stopping within a milimeter of doing so...but staying a milimeter away. he is playing the Left's favorite game: "Moral Eqivalency"

example:

CAVUTO: Well, wait — wait a minute. Are you equating Fidel Castro with what's happening at Guantanamo?
RANGEL: You bet your life, if we're — if we are talking about human rights.

Castro's "Human Rights" record is appalling...to all but the Left. the political prisons have never had an empty cell during Castro's entire regime. These prisons are filled with ANYBODY and EVERYBODY who raises their voice against Castro.

The REALITY (an anathema to the Left) is that WE do NOT have "Political Prisons" in this country. As some have pointed out, if we DID, then Rangel would be well and soundly incarcerated in one.

The "Moral Eqivalency" game is the most repugnant tactic of the Left, and the Dictator's BEST FRIEND!!

" Where exactly does Rangel... (Below threshold)
Dave:

" Where exactly does Rangel say he hates Bush? I guess I missed that part."

Is talking about Castro a good enough excuse to talk about Bush? Only for the people who obsess over him.

Of course, all this could be political posturing, in which case he doesn't hate, love or have an opinion at all.


Where exactly does Range... (Below threshold)
toby928:

Where exactly does Rangel say he hates Bush?

Hello ... its Charlie Rangel we're talking about. That's like wondering if Maxine Waters hates Bush, or if John Dingell would housesit for Bush's cat.

Tob

I agree the Castro regieme ... (Below threshold)
groucho:

I agree the Castro regieme is oppressive. So, I think, would Rangel if you were to ask him, instead of putting words in his mouth. The quote cited by justrand proves the point. A millimeter is still a millimeter. Any leap across that space, no matter how wide, is just that, a leap. And a very paranoid one, IMO.

You're so quick to pile on anyone who points out any inconsistency, demonize him and re-interpret his point to fit a rigid political lockstep mindset.

Cuban oppression is not the issue here. No one's questioning that.Your perception of whatever you think the 'Left" thinks is pathetically nyopic and self-serving. Try and envision a larger group of people, let's say 60-65% of the country, who have many and varied beliefs, religions, attitudes, etc. Think if them as sharing a larger belief, that this country is in trouble, largely due to the poor decisions and missteps of this administration. Welcome to the USA! Is that the "Left" you're referring to?

Toby: I'm still waiting for someone to point out when Rangel said he hates Bush. Maybe he just strongly disagrees with his policies. Maybe the hate is in your heart.

My feeling is tha... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
My feeling is that the incompetent morons running the show no longer know who is who so they just keep on with the status quo.

Ah, a member of the “Latte Biscotti Crowd” chimes in after hearing from a friend of a friend who has a friend that read on a lefty blog that the U.S. Military indiscriminately plucked men off the streets, desert or mountains for no apparent reason and plopped them in Gitmo without due process.

But what you do not understand is that whom you refer to as “incompetent morons running the show” are actually our U.S. Military.

They are the ones that removed these people from the “battlefield”. They are the ones guarding these brainwashed animals while being spat on and bit amongst other things.

So when Charlie Rangel says: “Well, I wonder how many people we killed at Guantanamo” he is wondering how many U.S. Military personnel are murderers.

You see lefty (and Rangel) in order to have a military conspiracy; everyone has to be in on it from the lowest Private on up to the highest-ranking officer. That’s a bit hard to do.

And you people are the self-proclaimed intellectuals. Sheeeesh!


Toby: I'm still waiting ... (Below threshold)
toby928:

Toby: I'm still waiting for someone to point out when Rangel said he hates Bush.

I'm not your free google-monkey groucho, links are .50 apiece or you can find then yourself. Or is it that your looking for the exact phrase I hate Bush and anything else won't do?

Tob

Charly Rangle,you mean the ... (Below threshold)
jainphx:

Charly Rangle,you mean the same Charly that was best friends with Commandant Ortega,the same one who was an admirer of Che,that Charly.It amazes me when people tell you who they are we don't believe them,but instead invent things to foment anti American,anti free world anger.People need to get a reality check before its to late thanks to you usefull Idiots.

I will allow that my "incom... (Below threshold)
groucho:

I will allow that my "incompetent moron" comment was more aimed at more management level types, but it raises an interesting point. Were those caught torturing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib incompetent? Or does being a member of th U S Military excuse any type of behavior? How about the soldiers going to trial for rape and murder of innocent Iraquis? Are we all good and everyone who dresses differently or worships a different all bad? Find those who would do harm to our country and our fellow citizens and dispose of them quickly and effectively, but let's make sure we damn well know the difference between the evil ones and everybody else. The morons I refer to are those who I believe either can't or won't tell the difference.

OK, Gitmo is populated by those removed from "the battlefield". Right now that includes the entire countries of Iraq and Afghanistan. That narrows it down. Do you honestly think we know who all of these pepole are? Frankly, I'm not that confident in our current POW/detainee/enemy combatant program right about now.

Jumpinjoe, I could generalize condescendingly about you too, but it doesn't add to the discussion in any way. I don't "claim" to be anything other than a reasonably informed (I'm here, aren't I?) and concerned American. Don't care much for latte, I'd prefer a cold one, but there is a local store that sells really good bisciotti...

Toby, I apologize man, I just thought that since you were so quick to ascribe something as strong as hatred to Rangel (and others) that you'd be able to back it up. My bad.

Find those who would do ... (Below threshold)
RFA:

Find those who would do harm to our country and our fellow citizens and dispose of them quickly and effectively, but let's make sure we damn well know the difference between the evil ones and everybody else. The morons I refer to are those who I believe either can't or won't tell the difference.

You have just demonstrated that you certainly can't tell the difference.

Were those caught... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Were those caught torturing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib incompetent?

Absolutely, and they lacked any semblance of military discipline. But during that story’s peak I also blamed the leadership. Why wasn’t anyone in the entire chain of command checking on that section of the prison?

It did turn out later that the Brigadier General who ran the prison was demoted and forced to retire. She got the equivalence of 50 lashes with a wet noodle as far as I’m concerned.

But you also have to consider that the military will have its bad apples and they will do something extremely stupid and make national news. That’s absolutely no reason to lump everyone together.

But Rangel is insinuating that detainees at Gitmo are being murdered for no other reason than to compare Bush to Castro.

He said it off the cuff with no evidence. It was meant for the left wing audience to draw the parallel with Bush. But what Rangel forgot was whom he was accusing of murder with zip, zero, nada proof or previous hearsay.

Frankly, I'm not that confident in our current POW/detainee/enemy combatant program right about now

The only way to answer this is ask how you would do it different. We know the left wing wants individual trials and all due process of facing their accusers, thus allowing military intelligence to be broadcast across the news. That is part of the undermining of the GWOT by the left because they hate to see the Commander in Chief succeed in any way.

Jumpinjoe, I could generalize condescendingly about you too, but it doesn't add to the discussion in any way. I don't "claim" to be anything other than a reasonably informed (I'm here, aren't I?) and concerned American

I am posting in a conservative forum when (at least I think I am since I’m kind of new here) someone writes, “incompetent morons running the show no longer know who is who”, then I’m sure you would expect some tit-for-tat.

Especially since we are talking about that incompetent Rangel that makes false accusations about those working their asses off to protect this country just to placate the tinfoil hat wearing lefty moonbat crowd.

See how that works. It’s kind of fun, isn’t it?

Has anyone been killed at G... (Below threshold)
RFA:

Has anyone been killed at Gitmo?
Has anyone been killed in Castro's Prison System?

Anyone who trys to make the two "Morally Equivelent" comes off as "Willfully Ignorant"

Charlie Rangel has always b... (Below threshold)
BorgQueen:

Charlie Rangel has always been one of the primary reasons that NYC should be amputated from the rest of New York State.

Hmmmm. I wonder if old "pea... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hmmmm. I wonder if old "pearlly teeth" is a racist? I wonder if he is a Bush hater. I wonder if he is really an American? I wonder if he is a crook? I wonder if he is a liar? I wonder if he is a human? I wonder if he gives a crap about anything but getting elected back to his gravy train? I wonder if he would feel anything if someone took a ballbat and took out his "pearlies"? I wonder what it would be like if the world was rid of dog crap like him? I WONDER!

Jumpin.. Depends on your id... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Jumpin.. Depends on your idea of fun. I listen to Rangel and hear a completely different point. I'm trying to respectfully disagree. You dissect my post and present what you obviously feel to be coherent responses. Every sense I possess (including common) tells me that this whole administration is packed full of incompetent morons. You probably guessed I feel that way. I wasn't including you in that sentiment, so actually I wasn't expecting tit-for-tat.

Once you use the words tinfoil, moonbat and lefty , in the same sentence no less, you've lost all hope of an intelligent discussion. It's the eqivalent of putting your hands in your ears and saying "I can't hear you".

RFA: I was going to bail ou... (Below threshold)
groucho:

RFA: I was going to bail out, but you've grabbed my curiosity. What do you mean?

"Cuban oppression is not... (Below threshold)

"Cuban oppression is not the issue here."

Um, it's at least half of it. What is this administration being compared to if Cuban oppression isn't part of the issue?

I heard Rangel in this interview the other day and My mouth is still hanging open. Interesting how he stopped short with that last statement. Why, if he'd carried it out to its implied conclusion, he would have had to say that we had given them mock trials and shot them by firing squad the next dawn. Instead, he equivocates on certain facts about the Gitmo detainee's existence. They get culturally sensitive meals and all the prayer materials they need. An exercize yard and clean clothes and showers. Does Castro do that? Does Castro even give them a toilet to flush Korans in?

I listen to Rangel... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
I listen to Rangel and hear a completely different point.

Last post for me on the topic;

RANGEL: Well, I wonder how many people we killed at Guantanamo. I mean, we don't have the human rights record.

Rangel is pondering, deeply I’m sure, how many people “WE” killed at Gitmo. “WE”, the American people represented by our military that are in charge of guarding those at Gitmo.

Have you or anyone else reading this ever hear of the military killing detainees at Gitmo? Not me ever. This is a completely new revelation but old Charlie seems to have a leg up on all of us.

Then this exchange……

CAVUTO: Well, wait — wait a minute. Are you equating Fidel Castro with what's happening at Guantanamo?

RANGEL: You bet your life, if we're — if we are talking about human rights.

YOU BET YOUR LIFE

I’m sorry, but there is no reading in to this and finding some point other than “The United States of America is equal to communist Cuba in terms of Human Rights”.

We all know many people died at the hands of Castro in his prisons. Nobody is questioning that. (Maybe a lefty out there somewhere agreeing Castro had good intentions in the long run)

But Rangel has to completely fabricate that “WE” are killing detainees to even make the point.

Why does he fabricate? So he can accuse the Bush administration of being somehow equal to a communist dictator.

Who is Rangel speaking to? Not me. Because people like me know our military is not murdering detainees.

Rangel is speaking to the lefties only. He knows they get all excited when their politicians ramble on about the evils of Republicans.

But then, they are, for the most part those that believe the U.S. Government planned 9-11, Republicans want to establish a fascist state and we want to keep the brothers down.

The End……..

Honestly, groucho, there is... (Below threshold)

Honestly, groucho, there is a world of difference between what has gone on in Cuba and what is going on in Gitmo, and the comparisons (or rather likenesses) are too tenuous to bear up under intelligent scrutiny.

At Gitmo, the prisoners are international celebrities, and receive visits from several different human rights and international organisations committed to assuring their well-being and safety despite the evil intent of the Big, Bad, Mean US. A lot of the "torture" they've received sounds about like trying to sleep at the barracks on a Friday night. I don't recall hearing anything about the use of electric shock therapy, cutting off of extremities, rape, disembowelling, burning with hot brands or irons, removal of facial features, the prevention of worship, forced starvation, forced manual labour or anything like that.

What I do know is that the evil bastards locked up there (and yes, they are - I'm in a position to actually know this) treat their guards, our troops, far worse than anything we would ever do to them. Maybe you've heard about the cocktail? A charming concoction of fermented urine, spit, feces and semen which gets tossed at the hapless guard on duty (in the case I'm thinking of, it was a young female MP specialist who had been there maybe 2 months?). Not to mention the death threats, biting and other attacks perpetrated upon them. Those men in there are stone evil, the lot of them, and many of the ones who have been released have gone right back out and recommitted the same acts that got them put in Gitmo in the first place. Hell, they're living, at our expense, a life loads better than that of the average Cuban. How sad is it that we treat our prisoners better than Fidel treats his citizens?

But I digress. My point is this: Rangel, or any other politician of his ilk (in either party, I'm not being particular here) are human detritus. That everyone hasn't drummed them all out of office long since is a sad testament to either the power of hope (as in "Maybe he'll be better on other things"), cynicism ("Well, at least he hates Bush as much as I do"), or out and out lunacy ("He's a great guy, really knows what's what, that one"). We are sullied everyday by the mere association of their names with our country.

Nobody claims that the US is perfect. We all know it's not. But it's about the best there is, not least because of all the offsets we have that other countries don't have. You don't even have to like it that much (although it does beg the question "why live here, then?"). But the solution is to work within your community to effect change by example. To blame the entire administration for Everything Gone Wrong, is a bit like blaming the kid who bags the fries when you feel that McD's stock has been dropping too quickly.

And face it - Communism killed more people in the 20th century than any of the next 2 causes combined. It was a bad idea then, and it just keeps getting worse.

Quick, show of hands all wh... (Below threshold)

Quick, show of hands all who have ever been to Cuba....no one, no one at all, with all these definitive posts about Cuban prisons etc.? Let me guess, we heard it from Cuban dissident's in South Florida-that ever critical repub voting block-I know one thing; Cuba gave a certain third world country micro-dams,agricultural schools, trained medical personnel,and teachers for adult literacy classes. I know, because Michael Manley-the former Prime Minister of said country (Jamaica) is a family friend, so I know of which I speak because I saw some of these things first hand. Yes Cuba was giving Jamaica all those things in the late seventies, at a time when the only thing being exported by America to said little Island, was coming from Langley Virginia. Besides, Castro sent fighters to help the liberation sruggle in Angola, when no other country would.

So excuse me if I am not so quick to jump on the "get the evil cigar smoker to the south" bandwagon. I look at the hue of Cubans who fled the revolution now residing in South Florida, as opposed to the ones who had to stay in Cuba, because they did not have the means or the resources to get out in the first place. And I say mmmmmm.

BTW, I think Rangel was out of line, and I have never been particularly fond of the congressman from Harlem. Because as much as I appreciate some of the things that Cuba has done, it is, after all, a communist country. So I am sure there has been far more human rights violations there than at Gitmo. Rangel is a little too blinded by partisanship for my taste. Hey, kinda like some of the posters on this site.

Ah, with Theo Huxtable, it ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Ah, with Theo Huxtable, it always comes back to racism.
And hmmmm. Are you saying that the darker you are, the less likely you had the balls to build a boat out of a Chevy truck and try to get one foot on dry land before the Coast Guard spotted you?
Everything Castro did in Jamacia, Angola and elsewhere was PR, to wedge an opening for the glorious communist revolution. And it was all funded by the USSR.

Michael Manley was a corrup... (Below threshold)
Adjoran:

Michael Manley was a corrupt ally of the Soviet Union. He lived well, while his people stayed impoverished.

By the time he returned to office, communism was on the run and he softened his adherence to socialism, but he still did nothing for Jamaica.

Adjorn, once again you need... (Below threshold)

Adjorn, once again you need to cover your thoughts, because your ignorance is showing.

Don't speak of things you know nothing about, you really look stupid when you do. FYI, Michael Manley was born to a very wealthy Jamaican family. -His father was also Prime Minister and a National Hero-who gave up alot of things when he chose to imbark on a socialist ideology for that country. I could get into it with you and give you a lesson in economics 101, but I don't have the time or the patience.

So go and do some more reading from your little "global politics for dummies" book and get back with me later when you understand what it says.

Ans SCSI.., you might want to borrow that book Adjorn reads from and try to learn something. Race had EVERYTHING to do with who acquired wealth in pre-rvolutionary Cuba, and to ignore that, would be...well very white of you ;)

Sorry Theo,But most ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Sorry Theo,
But most of the movers and shakers in socialism have come from wealthy backgrounds. Doesn't make socialism anything but what it is.
BTW, Kim JIng Il and his pappy are national heroes too. Doesn't make them anything but what they are (were) either.
As for econ 101, bring it on barrister. Teach us assumed white folk (how very rasict of you, BTW) how it all works.

field-negro: "Race had EVER... (Below threshold)
pepe rodriguez:

field-negro: "Race had EVERYTHING to do with who acquired wealth in pre-rvolutionary Cuba"

Remember Fulgencio Batista?
He was black and he was poor before became President in 1940-1944.




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