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Michael Moore to Pro-War Democrats: Fall into Line or We Will Destroy You

Updated

After Lamont's win over Joe Lieberman yesterday, the far leftist MoveOn moonbats have ratcheted up the rhetoric. Take a gander at Michael Moore's ultimatum to all pro-Iraq war Democrats. Who will be the next Democrat to face the leftists' wrath? Hillary Clinton. His message? Get in line or your political career will be over. Ladies and gentlemen, the destruction of the Democratic party has officially begun:

Friends,


Let the resounding defeat of Senator Joe Lieberman send a cold shiver down the spine of every Democrat who supported the invasion of Iraq and who continues to support, in any way, this senseless, immoral, unwinnable war. Make no mistake about it: We, the majority of Americans, want this war ended -- and we will actively work to defeat each and every one of you who does not support an immediate end to this war.

Nearly every Democrat set to run for president in 2008 is responsible for this war. They voted for it or they supported it. That single, stupid decision has cost us 2,592 American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. Lieberman and Company made a colossal mistake -- and we are going to make sure they pay for that mistake. Payback time started last night.

I realize that there are those like Kerry and Edwards who have now changed their position and are strongly anti-war. Perhaps that switch will be enough for some to support them. For others, like me -- while I'm glad they've seen the light -- their massive error in judgment is, sadly, proof that they are not fit for the job. They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land.

To Hillary, our first best hope for a woman to become president, I cannot for the life of me figure out why you continue to support Bush and his war. I'm sure someone has advised you that a woman can't be elected unless she proves she can kick ass just as crazy as any man. I'm here to tell you that you will never make it through the Democratic primaries unless you start now by strongly opposing the war. It is your only hope. You and Joe have been Bush's biggest Democratic supporters of the war. Last night's voter revolt took place just a few miles from your home in Chappaqua. Did you hear the noise? Can you read the writing on the wall?

To every Democratic Senator and Congressman who continues to back Bush's War, allow me to inform you that your days in elective office are now numbered. Myself and tens of millions of citizens are going to work hard to actively remove you from any position of power.

If you don't believe us, give Joe a call.

Yours,
Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

P.S. Republicans -- sorry to leave you out of this letter. It's just that our side has a little housecleaning to do. We'll take care of you this November.

This is just too delicious for Republicans. Michael Moore and his MoveOn crowd have officially taken over the Democratic party. What will Hillary Clinton and the others do? Will they bow at the altar of the moonbats or will they fight for their party?

Update: Mark Kilmer at RedState comments:

The man has tasted blood, now he thinks he can rip apart the entire Democrat Party. For Republicans, this can be fun to watch. The nuts have a grip on that Party, they are a living, breathing, elected part of it. The erstwhile party of Andrew Jackson, JFK, and the second President Roosevelt are now the party of Howard Dean, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, and Michael Moore. (You know the other names which belong on the list.)

Update II: Tom Bevan writing at RCP Blog offers comments regarding Michael Moore's claim that he speaks for the majority of Americans:

A majority of the public may not be happy with progress in Iraq, but neither do they subscribe to Moore's view that it is "senseless," "immoral," or "unwinnable." Despite what he may think, Michael Moore's rabid, far left partisanship is never going to represent the majority view in this country. The problem is that Moore now represents the majority view within the Democratic party - further cemented by Lamont's victory last night - and that just might cost them another decade or two in the wilderness.

Update III: The far left moonbats have pushed other reasonable and judicious Democrats out of the party. Brendan Loy has announced that he got the message and that he's leaving the Democratic Party:

But now the voters have spoken. Lieberman may still consider himself a Democrat - he says that, if elected as an independent, he'll vote to organize with the Dems, and I believe him - but the Democrats don't consider Lieberman a Democrat anymore. That's the cold, hard truth of today's results. He's been kicked out of the "big tent" because his loyalty wasn't blind enough, because his conscience wasn't pliable enough. He's been replaced by the shiny new millionaire who said all the right things to win over the hearts and minds of the netroots. The war in Iraq is wrong, wrong, wrong; President Bush is bad, bad, bad; and Joe Lieberman is a traitor, a traitor, a traitor. That's the undeniable message that Democratic voters from my home state have sent out across the land this fateful day.


Well, if there's no room in the Democratic Party for Joe Lieberman, then there's no room in it for me.

Update IV: Jeff Goldstein's fisking of Moore's letter is a must read.


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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Michael Moore to Pro-War Democrats: Fall into Line or We Will Destroy You:

» Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator linked with Meet Joe Lieberman's Worst Nightmare

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» Blue Star Chronicles linked with Michael Moore Attempts Coup

» UrbanGrounds linked with The Inmates are Running the Asylum

» Mike's Noise linked with Open Season on Joe Lieberman

Comments (89)

Mmmmmm, "Mooremas" and it'... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Mmmmmm, "Mooremas" and it's only August.

Careful. Up here in Canada ... (Below threshold)
Fred Z:

Careful. Up here in Canada when our Liberal pary experimented with the moonbats we laughed and said they were destroying themselves. They were not, the moonbats took over and it was a long slog to get back as far as we are.

Heheh, what a self-righteou... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Heheh, what a self-righteous, melodramtic, cocky little son of a bitch he is.

And, after he concedes that the war was widely supported on it's inception, he still goes on to call it "Bush's War".

"The promised land". That's rich.

Will they bow at the alt... (Below threshold)
Bob Arthur:

Will they bow at the alter...

I think you mean "altar". "Alter" is a verb, "altar" is a noun, a place of worship.

Castro isn't sick, he's in ... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Castro isn't sick, he's in negotiations to run for President as a Democrat in '08.

Bob, Thanks for po... (Below threshold)
Kim Priestap:

Bob,

Thanks for pointing out my typo. It's fixed.

C'mon. You can't fool this... (Below threshold)

C'mon. You can't fool this old buzzard. That was ghostwritten for Moore by the master, Karl Rove.

How rich is it for him to u... (Below threshold)

How rich is it for him to use religious imagery? "They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land." Especially considering the current state of affairs with Israel being attacked by two terrorist groups.

"If you don't believe us, give Joe a call" and ask how you too can leave these batspit crazy nutballs behind and become an independent.

"and we will actively work to defeat each and every one of you who does not support an immediate end to this war." I gotta tell ya, it's going to be a damned tough task to accomplish this while running away considering the millions of unemployed jihadists that would fall under the heading of those 'that do not support an immediate end to this war'...just ask iran, hezbollah, hamas, syria, etc etc. Wake me up when he tells us how he's going to end a war by retreating from a foe that is only interested in global conquest and has shown the willingness and ability to strike on US soil...maybe he's investing heavily in moon rockets? Nice guy that Mr. Hitler, he says he's only interested in jobs in Iraq and restoring Arab pride...

"We'll take care of you thi... (Below threshold)
SurfinKC:

"We'll take care of you this November."

Please, that's what he said two years ago! Remember his "two more months" gester at the RNC convention? Who is this "we" he speaks of? He had nothing to do with this primary, he's just taking credit for a huge mistake! Moore-on's!

Don't play "Taps" for the D... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

Don't play "Taps" for the Democratic Party quite yet -- a portion of the electorate (the 50+ percent that aren't giving Bush a favorable approval rating) finds Democratic/liberal arguments persuasive.

That said ... I lean more center than left or right, and I am quite disturbed by the forces I see at work. Come 2008, I have a feeling my vote will be in play.

--|PW|--

Translation: we can't beat ... (Below threshold)
ken:

Translation: we can't beat Republicans, so we're going to get more than a "moral victory" by defeating Democrats.

What we are seeing is the d... (Below threshold)
Vegas Vic:

What we are seeing is the demise of the Democratic Party, as we know it. Lieberman’s Shift to Independent should be recognized as just the beginning or shift by many people disenfranchised by the extremists and wackos like Moore on the left. They (Moore, Kos, Dean) have no moral compass and many democrats recognize the ideology and values once associated with their party has been hijacked by hate.

Payback time started las... (Below threshold)
tblubrd:

Payback time started last night.

Does this mean Mckinney will actually get back in?

They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land.

Wow. When did this atheist start quoting bible verses?

Amazing. THey want to reli... (Below threshold)
Carol:

Amazing. THey want to relive Viet Nam in every way - they desperately want to bring down Bush, just like Nixon, but they have apparently managed to forget what happened to George McGovern the last time the moonbats were in charge. Do they really not remember that defeat or are they whistling past their own graveyard?

Moore, MoveOn, and Kos Kids... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Moore, MoveOn, and Kos Kids are systematically removing the liberal Jews from the Democratic Party. Token Joe (for prez) is out and now fatso wants to abandon Israel by leaving Iraq to radical Islam. Radical Islam is galvanized in the removal of Israel. Jews are not stupid. Add it up.

Anybody know the size of the Democrat's Jewish bloc vote?

Moore is successfully radicalizing the party. That will marginalize the party come election time. Thanks fatso.

As a conservative, I guess ... (Below threshold)
OregonMuse:

As a conservative, I guess I should be happy at the cannibalism going on in the Democratic party right now, but actually I'm not. The more that they're being overrun by gibbering baboons like Lamont and Moore and Kos, etc., the less serious of a party they are, and the more they will lose and the more Republicans will get fat and lazy. This is Not Good.

A weak Democratic party will ultimately hurt the Republicans. We need a strong, sane, adult Democrat party -- to keep the GOP lean, mean, and in fighting shape. I want them to have to work for my vote, not assume they have it.

I hope that sanity will prevail among the Democrats.

Yo Lefty:60 per... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Yo Lefty:

60 percent of Americans are in favor of winding down the war, and at least beginning the withdrawl of troops before the end of the year. The Democratic Party is officially the party of the American People, and good riddance to Lieberman and his ilk.

I hope you're not trying to say here that Michael Moore is not a complete dork, right? What the left does not need is another ignorant conspirist loudmouth making them (or "us," after a few beers) look stupid.

In my private apocalypse, MM will be locked into a trunk with Ann Coulter and shoved off a cliff.

The Dem. Party as a ... (Below threshold)
macofromoc:


The Dem. Party as a whole looks to be on it's last legs. The Marxists are gonna take the Party down. Karl Rove's double secret plan is finally showing some results. Don't try to fight it The Great and Powerful Rove will own you!!!

I do notice that the only p... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I do notice that the only people I ever hear linking or talking about Michael Moore are on the right. His influence among liberals seems very minimal to me, but I don't hang out at DU. Maybe they like his ridiculous rhetoric.

Don't jump to conclusions. ... (Below threshold)
Paul Kraft:

Don't jump to conclusions. A 60 percent disapproval rating for the war does not automatically mean a 60 percent approval rating for the Democrats. As a repubilcan, I could not influence the democratic candidate in 2004, and I was left with a choice between two poor candidates. I wanted to vote for Lieberman. In 2008, if the democrats choose their candidate on a "I'm not Bush" strategy, the choice will be no better. A word of advice to both parties, run someone who is a good candidate to be president, not just someone who is better than the other guy.

Good point OregonMuse...I a... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Good point OregonMuse...I agree.

astifaga:

In my private apocalypse, MM will be locked into a trunk with Ann Coulter and shoved off a cliff

Nah, it'd be more fun to watch them fight for awhile before we gave it a good shove.

Or, they may be so opposite that like matter and antimatter they explode when brought in contact with one another.

Lefty:

60 percent of Americans are in favor of winding down the war, and at least beginning the withdrawl of troops before the end of the year.

Do you have a link for that poll? I've never been able to understand how you ask a few thousand people what they think and the answers are used to characterize the other 297,000,000 people think.

I find it pretty ridiculous... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

I find it pretty ridiculous that all the posters in this thread refer to Moore and the Liberal left as whackos, as if those who continue to support Bush aren't just as radical on the Right. A presidency with a bunch of bible-thumpers as a base (in a country with a Constitution that clearly requires separation of church and state)? Please...You're all whackos!

But of course the real issue is that ALL politicians are inherently corrupt, and the fact that this country has become so incredibly divided on behalf of these power-hungry, egotistical, incompetent politicians, is not only sad...It's laughable.

The sooner we all realize that this government (no matter which party is in control) is doing nothing to help us, and everything to destroy us...the better. Only after we're able to completely buck the system as it currently exists will any morality, progress, efficiency, productivity and peace return to our democracy.

Wake up!!! Think!!!

Moonbat...what a funny word... (Below threshold)
Josh:

Moonbat...what a funny word. Let's count hom many times these clever people can use it in a single thread. It just gets funnier.

mantisI do notice th... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerican Immigrant:

mantis
I do notice that the only people I ever hear linking or talking about Michael Moore are on the right. His influence among liberals seems very minimal to me,
---------------------------------------------------
If that were true, I am surprised that Moore was seated next to Carter at the 2004 Democratic convention center. And major politicians like Dashle etc.. showed up and embraced his propagandistic movie. He was welcomed as a hero at big European film festivals (by the liberal leftists there). Moore 's view is standard at DailyKos and the nutroots that helped defeat Lieberman in CT primary.

So angry - and so willing t... (Below threshold)
Stan:

So angry - and so willing to pump out your chests and scream, "Yeaahh, I'm behind my President!". Go on. Continue to believe a president who lies to you daily and keeps you shivering in your boots by telling you how the terrorists are coming to get you.

If there's one thing the conservative right (yes, you big talkers) can unite behind it's your all consuming cowardly fear of an attack and your williingness to submit to any infringement of your rights (or freedoms) so that big daddy bush can protect you.

I was in the city during September 11th. I actually saw right in front of me what a terrorist attack on our soil looks like. Am I so afraid of another that I'm willing to keep my opinions quiet and allow all the freedoms we fight for be taken away for some perceived sense of "security?" Get real. We can preserve what is right and good about this country and still fight people who are against us. When you're "too afraid" and willing to let these freedoms be overrun, as Ben Franklin said, "Those who will trade freedom for security deserve neither."

Get off your pussy asses, stop wimpering and stand up for your friggin country, if you people still remember what this country is supposed to be.

Grumper,A preside... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Grumper,
A presidency with a bunch of bible-thumpers as a base (in a country with a Constitution that clearly requires separation of church and state)? Please...You're all whackos!

Is that the mysterious 'religious right' you're referring to, Grumper? Ann Coulter wants to know.

Stan,
it's your all consuming cowardly fear of an attack

If you saw the towers come down, why don't you recognize that we have already been attacked or was that a Bush conspiracy? Hello? Anybody home?

To poster Stan:You... (Below threshold)
Melissa:

To poster Stan:

You hit it right on nose, my friend. These conservatives are cowardly little children who will sacrifice everything out of this blinding fear.

I have a cousin in California who is a complete right winger and after speaking to his wife found out he's so afraid of a terrorist attack he won't fly. won't even get close to the airport anymore. He wouldn't admit that, though. Every argument with me ends with him screaming, "What, are you a communist?"

So many people around the country have been lulled into this continuing psychological terrorism by a guy they call President. Too bad there aren't enough "real men" in this country who think right to privacy, separation of church and state and accountability are worth standing firm for. And as far as Michael Moore is concerned? More power to him for speaking his mind. It's his right as long as this is a free country and anyone who challenges that right, well, THEIR communists!

Stan:I wa... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Stan:

I was in the city during September 11th. I actually saw right in front of me what a terrorist attack on our soil looks like. Am I so afraid of another that I'm willing to keep my opinions quiet and allow all the freedoms we fight for be taken away for some perceived sense of "security?"

I was too. Ten blocks North of the Trade Centers.

Exactly what freedoms did you have then that you do not have now? I hear this often, this police state, these rights that are being trampled.

No one is asking you to not have an opinion, and opinions are not being stifled. If they were, you wouldn't have been able to post your ridiculous comment.

That was a nice attempt at a turn around, labeling those who would fight the terrorists as cowards instead of those who would run away from them. That must take an impressive amount of irredeemably skewed logic to make youself believe.

My advice to you is this, Stan:

Get off your pussy ass, stop wimpering and stand up for your friggin country, if you still remember what this country is supposed to be.

Josh,Moonbat...wh... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Josh,
Moonbat...what a funny word. Let's count hom many times these clever people can use it in a single thread. It just gets funnier.

The kids are playing over at Kos. Here's a new big word to use to describe yourself and to take home to mommy: Carbuncle.

"If you saw the towers come... (Below threshold)
Stan:

"If you saw the towers come down, why don't you recognize that we have already been attacked or was that a Bush conspiracy? Hello? Anybody home?"

Hey Red Fog,

I know it's a stretch, but try actually "understanding" what others write. How you can make the moronic leap from my unwillingness to let fear take over my life - despite having seen an attack right in front of me - to me, somehow, what is it? Believing in a "Bush conspiracy?" Are you dense? Let me put it in simple terms for a simple man - I am not going to subvert my freedoms out of fear. I am not afraid of another attack, and, even if I were, I wouldn't be crapping in my pants and willing to let my government do whatever they want.

There is something in this country worth fighting for - it's the constitution. Go read it. It's what is great about America. When it's gone, all is lost.

I hope you're not trying... (Below threshold)
Lefty:

I hope you're not trying to say here that Michael Moore is not a complete dork, right?

Moore is entitled to his opinion. My opinion of Moore is that he's a slobbering egomaniac. He does not represent the Democratic party, although it is clearly on the right wing agenda to paint Moore as representative.

He's as representative of the left as Pat Robertson is of the right. Adult voters know this, but that leaves a large number of conservatives blabbering in the wind.

The poll showing 60 percent in favor of beginning withdraw of troops in Iraq by year end is all over the news, for example

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060809/pl_nm/iraq_usa_poll_dc_3

Melissa:Y... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Melissa:

You hit it right on nose, my friend. These conservatives are cowardly little children who will sacrifice everything out of this blinding fear.

I love the occasional influx of paranoid schizophrenia that Wizbang gets. It's kind of like getting a visit from a friend in a mental ward as opposed to having to go there.

Melissa, when I feel a sense of blinding fear, I'll let you know.

Stan, the conservatives rep... (Below threshold)
Lefty:

Stan, the conservatives repeat their lies and mantras in order to comfort themselves in front of the resounding defeat they face in the polls in November.

I picture them sitting crosslegged in front of the TV with Fox News blaring -- fingering their prayer beads and rocking back and forth, repeating "Michael Moore is a bad man", "Barbara Boxer is a bad woman", "Ned Lamont is a bad man", "Nancy Pelosi is a bad woman" over and over again, the same way Islamofacists chant and repeat their prayers for salvation.

"A weak Democratic party wi... (Below threshold)

"A weak Democratic party will ultimately hurt the Republicans. We need a strong, sane, adult Democrat party -- to keep the GOP lean, mean, and in fighting shape. I want them to have to work for my vote, not assume they have it."

Why not a new party to replace the Dems? We thought the next legitimate party was going to be a new center right party, but then the Republicans stiffened up a bit (a tiny bit, before they learned to like spending money like drunken Democrats and pander to special interests with the skill of Jesse Jackson) so maybe it will be a center left party...I can easily see Joe attracting people like Zell, etc. It could happen. Pat Robertson or someone could have seized the Republican party (forcing moderates to a new center right party), but he was nudged off to the side. The question is- will the Democrats nudge the fat liar out of the big top or put him in the center ring with a megaphone? Which Democratic party will survive? The one that denied Mckinney another trip to fantasyland or the one that voted against a strong-on-defense-and-stronger-on-every-other-Democratic-position Joe for a guy supported by people that use racist and Nazi imagery and slurs against their jewish opponent? I'd say Democrats have a choice to make. If nothing else, it shows there isn't a shred of anything resembling unanimity in the party.

Melissa,I have a ... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Melissa,
I have a cousin in California who is a complete right winger and after speaking to his wife found out he's so afraid of a terrorist attack he won't fly.

Just suppose he's using that as an excuse to avoid visiting you? Now, I'm not sure of this conspiracy theory but if your sound-bite yammering gives him an ear ache .... that's it! He lies to his own wife because doesn't want to visit you anymore. I'm sure of it.

He does not represent th... (Below threshold)
OregonMuse:

He does not represent the Democratic party, although it is clearly on the right wing agenda to paint Moore as representative.

Every time we see Dem politicians shaking Mikey's hand, patting him on the back, sitting him in a prominent place in their national convention, it's getting easier and easier for Karl Rove to do this. You do know that, don't you?

Somebody earlier compared Moore to Pat Robertson, but ol' Pat doesn't ever get this kind of roll-out-the-red-carpet treatment from the GOP.

I don't know how much the V... (Below threshold)

I don't know how much the VRWC is paying Rove, but it's not enough. The man is an absolute genius. In one shot he’s taken out the somewhat sensible Dem’s and also managed to target (ironically enough) Hillary.

Brilliant!!!

Heralder,Explain t... (Below threshold)
Stan:

Heralder,

Explain to my where I'm saying we should "run away" from fighting terrorists. You won't find it. Going into Afghanistan is what we should have done. No question. If someone attacks me, I'll hit them back - but I won't be fooled. Bush has fooled you into believing "everything" is connected to terrorism and, my friend, it's not. Iraq was a mistake before it happened and will be a mistake 100 years from now. If we really were to go after the guys who attacked us, why all the lying and false war reasons. No one can properly explain that.

And as far as our freedoms in this country are concerned, I'm not saying we've turned into a police state - but laws are a slippery slope - and if you allow too many to pass that are not in your favor you will wake up one day wondering what happened to the place you remembered - if you remember when the changes happened at all. Think it's a tall tale? Well, nobody here has that luxury.

Lastly, I'm not calling "those who fight the terrorists" cowards. The one's really fighting this war is our military - who anybody with half a brain would have nothing but respect for and support (which I do). No. I'm referring to people like you - who are not in the military but hide behind your big militant opinions that everything your president says is honest and right - and somehow liken themselves to being "terrorist fighters" even though they've done nothing more than vote for incompetent losers.

Stan, some would argue that... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

Stan, some would argue that you aren't avoiding "fear of an attack". Frankly, it comes across tot hose of us realizing we are in a war that you are simply burying your head in the sand and pretending that "oh, it wasn't so bad.".

There is a difference in not letting fear rule your life and living in denial. My belief is that not letting fear rule me means I go out and kick the ass of the enemy trying to destroy me. Living in denial is pretending there is no threat despite the enemy public declaring war on you, bringing down two civilian symbols of this country, attacking the headquarters of your military and --only through the brave acts of handful of Americans fighting back--preventing the attack on your nation's Capitol building or White House.

To me...and a lot of others you aren't bravely living your life you are just in denial.

Stan,I wouldn't b... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Stan,
I wouldn't be crapping in my pants and willing to let my government do whatever they want

Did you really mean to say that, Stan? Don't let the girls see you like that, Stan.

Red Fog:Is that t... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

Red Fog:
Is that the mysterious 'religious right' you're referring to, Grumper? Ann Coulter wants to know.

Yep...although it's not so mysterious.

Heralder:
That was a nice attempt at a turn around, labeling those who would fight the terrorists as cowards instead of those who would run away from them. That must take an impressive amount of irredeemably skewed logic to make yourself believe.

Are you referring to the non-Iraqi terrorists that attacked the twin towers? I'm just wonderin', because it seems strange to me that the fact that 2,500 American soldier lives have been lost in a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks is OK with you. Also, are you referring to the same "skewed logic" that made this administration (along with the majority of congress and their constituents) believe that it was possible to succeed in a part of the world where there's been an almost constant state of war for a thousand years?

LoveAmerican Immigrant:
And major politicians like Dashle etc.. showed up and embraced his propagandistic movie. He was welcomed as a hero at big European film festivals (by the liberal leftists there).

I'm not a big fan of Moore's, but I'll take a propagandistic movie over propagandistic foreign policy any day of the week!

Lefty,I see. I gu... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Lefty,

I see. I guess I'm mathmatically retarted, because I don't get how CNN asked 1,047 Americans specific questions over the phone and from that, extrapolated that 60% of 297 million Americans felt a certain way.

Somebody earlier compare... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Somebody earlier compared Moore to Pat Robertson, but ol' Pat doesn't ever get this kind of roll-out-the-red-carpet treatment from the GOP.

No, but Coulter does.

Red Fog:Is that t... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Red Fog:
Is that the mysterious 'religious right' you're referring to, Grumper? Ann Coulter wants to know.

Yep...although it's not so mysterious.

Thank Grumper. That's the best explanation of the 'religious right' ever. Wow. Can't debate with 'not so mysterious' because ... well .... you said so! Super response, dinkle berry.

Faith,Thank you fo... (Below threshold)
Stan:

Faith,

Thank you for well-thought opinions. I don't disagree with you on many points, but as much as we need to put down our enemies we can't just simply use force anywhere and everywhere to do it. It's a balance. We need to use military force properly. We also need to be smart diplomatically, which this president has not. You pick your battles. Iraq was not the battle and never should have been. No amount of rhetoric will make that right.

I've never had my head in the sand and I hardly think the attack on this country "wasn't so bad." All I'm saying is that our President's assessment of how to combat terrorism is a failed one - as the outcomes have shown. I don't see the need to support bad ideas. I will hope for good ones and, if he came up with a few, I'd listen. Problem is, he's lied so many times he's lost everyone's trust and his motives are now suspect. I will not blindly follow anyone in office. No one should, democrat or republican.

There's an old phrase, "Deeds, not words." Also, dissent is important freedom in this country. Without it, where would we be?

OregonMuse:Every ... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

OregonMuse:
Every time we see Dem politicians shaking Mikey's hand, patting him on the back, sitting him in a prominent place in their national convention, it's getting easier and easier for Karl Rove to do this. You do know that, don't you?

That's just a typical knee-jerk reaction common among all politicians, where they read a poll that says they need to appeal to their base for a day or two in order to garner their support. This is no different than Bush making an idiotic move live vetoing a stem cell research bill.

As for Karl Rove...someone that apparently makes all political junkies wet in the crotch (although certainly a different type of wetness depending on which side you're on)...it amazes me that the right considers this guy a hero. Has anyone read up on him? If you had, you'd realize that he's a scholar and big fan of Machiavellian philosophy. So when you're blowing your wad about this fat baboon (who's obviously getting revenge for all the times he was beaten up as a kid), while at the same time dismissing concerns about lost freedoms, keep in mind that your boy is all about lost freedoms and lying to the populace in order to advance an agenda.

Red Fog:Thank Gru... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

Red Fog:
Thank Grumper. That's the best explanation of the 'religious right' ever. Wow. Can't debate with 'not so mysterious' because ... well .... you said so! Super response, dinkle berry.

Are YOU really criticizing the quality and thoughtfulness of my responses? This coming from someone who's posting such brilliant stuff as:

"Did you really mean to say that, Stan? Don't let the girls see you like that, Stan."

-or-

"Just suppose he's using that as an excuse to avoid visiting you? Now, I'm not sure of this conspiracy theory but if your sound-bite yammering gives him an ear ache .... that's it! He lies to his own wife because doesn't want to visit you anymore. I'm sure of it."

-or wait, there's more-

"The kids are playing over at Kos. Here's a new big word to use to describe yourself and to take home to mommy: Carbuncle."


That's good, quality stuff Foggy.

Stan,I'll need to ... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Stan,

I'll need to respond to your post later on, I'm running short on time here.

I'm not a big fan of Moore'... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerican Immigrant:

I'm not a big fan of Moore's, but I'll take a propagandistic movie over propagandistic foreign policy any day of the week!
--------------------------------------------------
Thanks for admitting that Moore is a propagandist and the liberal democrats were disgraceful for embracing such a proven liar just to win political power.

It is sad that a strong foreign policy against the enemies of America and the poor/oppressed in the world (like communism and jahadist terrorism) is propagandic. This sounds like the propaganda the communists and its leftist sympathizers used during the cold war. It is more than a coincidence that the propaganda of the terrorists sound like the talking points of the liberal Dems these days. It is interesting that the terrorists now complaining that the US and Is are running a propaganda against them.

They sided with Bush, an... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land.

A-ha, Michael Moore now thinks he's Moses! Perhaps he'll the Jews out of Egypt next.

Wait, never mind...

It looks like this is the f... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

It looks like this is the first step of the Democrats taking over the Independant Party and allowing the Liberals to whither on the vine....

LoveAmerican Immigrant:<br ... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

LoveAmerican Immigrant:
Thanks for admitting that Moore is a propagandist and the liberal democrats were disgraceful for embracing such a proven liar just to win political power.

No problem LAI...my pleasure. However, let's not pretend that the Bush administration hasn't lied extensively just to win political power and advance their agenda. Again...they're all crooks...all politicians, Reps and Dems alike!

It is sad that a strong foreign policy against the enemies of America and the poor/oppressed in the world (like communism and jahadist terrorism) is propagandic.

Strong foreign policy? Are you kidding me? If by "strong" you mean having the balls to engage in a war with complete disregard for logic, intelligence and finance, then yes...I guess that's strong foreign policy.

What would constitute strong foreign policy in my mind is one that takes history and our past actions into account...One that understands that our government can't just use terrorist countries/organizations to advance our interests (i.e. providing Saddam with weapons to help fight Iran, or funding Afghan gorillas to help fight the Soviet Union) when convenient, and then turn on those countries/organizations for possessing the very weapons we gave them, and then expect that those countries won't get pissed off and want to kill us...One that, following the attacks on 9/11, focused on determining why instead of who.

I remember Dian Fossey's da... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I remember Dian Fossey's days with the Afghan gorillas, as immortalized in her book, Gorillas in the Dust.

As for Karl Rove...someo... (Below threshold)
OregonMuse:

As for Karl Rove...someone that apparently makes all political junkies wet in the crotch (although certainly a different type of wetness depending on which side you're on)...it amazes me that the right considers this guy a hero.

My sarcasm went right over your head, didn't it? Oh, well, let me explain: Karl Rove is the left wing's boogey man. The very mention of his name causes them to curl up into a little ball and start wailing for their mommies. He is the personification of all the evil in the world. Every time you moonbats lose, the machinations of Karl Rove are somehow blamed.

I was parodying this obsession of the left. You guys think everything in the political world is planned by Karl Rove, so I love waving his name in your face; every time Rove says "boo", you guys crap your pants. I find this amusing.

Frankly, I never knew much about Rove until the left started blaming all their misfortunes on him, but hey, if he's causing you moonbats that much pain, may his tribe increase.

Somebody earlier compare... (Below threshold)
OregonMuse:

Somebody earlier compared Moore to Pat Robertson, but ol' Pat doesn't ever get this kind of roll-out-the-red-carpet treatment from the GOP.

No, but Coulter does.

Well, that's because she has nicer legs.

Grumper,That's go... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Grumper,
That's good, quality stuff Foggy.

Thanks for the compliment and for reposting all my comments on this thread. Now, can you actually tell me who constitutes the 'religious right' or do you want to play that old children's game of repeating my sentences to annoy and evade? That's what I thought: You've nothing to say worth repeating.

ok - who has read about, or... (Below threshold)
bender:

ok - who has read about, or remembers the destruction of the republican party at the hands of goldwater?

seriously - his people, outsiders who did not understand how politics much less washington worked - destroyed teh republican party coalition for a while - in particular driving some of the people who are today considered part of the democratic vanguard into that camp in the first place.

This is a smaller scale - but its the same thing. I hope.

"A foreign policy that take... (Below threshold)
Mike:

"A foreign policy that takes history and our past actions into account..."

Well, not ALL history of course. Never mind that bit about the Gulf War in '91 and the violations of the subsequent cease fire and UN resolutions. Never mind that bit about supporting terrorist organizations. What's REALLY important is the fact that we supported one enemy over another. THAT ALONE makes absolutely ANY moves we make in the region other than rationally considering their grievences, completely illegitimate.

Faith,Based on his... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Faith,

Based on his posts, I've come to the realization that Stan's a fear-based party pooper.

Mantis:"I remembe... (Below threshold)
Gumper:

Mantis:
"I remember Dian Fossey's days with the Afghan gorillas, as immortalized in her book, Gorillas in the Dust."

Oooo...you got me there, Mantis. Nice work! Way to focus on the important things...like spelling.

OregonMuse:
"My sarcasm went right over your head, didn't it?"

Not really, but feel free to flatter yourself.

"Frankly, I never knew much about Rove until the left started blaming all their misfortunes on him, but hey, if he's causing you moonbats that much pain, may his tribe increase."

Well, if you're including me in the group of liberal "moonbats", I guess you haven't been reading my entries very carefully, but that's ok. Regardless, that you don't care who Rove is, what he stands for, or how he gets what he wants...just as long as he inflicts pain on the liberals...is a pretty typical sentiment among all of the idiots (on the right and left) in this country who are so passionate about defending their respective positions.

None of it matters. It's all a game. We're all puppets, and Washington gets the last laugh.

Three reasons Republicans s... (Below threshold)

Three reasons Republicans should NOT cheer that Michael Moore has hijacked one of America's two major parties: (1) America needs two viable sane paries. We need campaigns with healthy debate, not the current moonbat nonsense. (2) When Republicans have no sane opposition, they feel free to spend freely and raise taxes on the supposition that you have no choice but to vote for them. (3) Sooner or later Republicans will be thrown out of power. It's inevitable. When it happens, the crazies on the Left will be America's only choice by default. That is not good for America.

Heralder wrote:"... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Heralder wrote:

"Lefty,

I see. I guess I'm mathmatically retarted, because I don't get how CNN asked 1,047 Americans specific questions over the phone and from that, extrapolated that 60% of 297 million Americans felt a certain way."

This is the "DEMOCRATS PERPETUAL FRAUD" DEMOCRATS ARE PROVEN LIARS.

And Stan, stut up stupid. You phony POS. You call the President a liar and whine about the Constitution.Shut up and go polish Clinton's lying pecker you loser.The Democrats and their Media's Perpetual Fraud is crumbling all around the world.

Lefty Minority loser,
"Stan, the conservatives repeat their lies and mantras in order to comfort themselves in front of the resounding defeat they face in the polls in November."

I laugh when I hear bed wetters like you Lefty. To prove just how stupid you are , it's your 90% lefty liberal media who repeat the dumasscraps party lies as mantras because that is all they are , a bunch of Godless Liars.

Don't you ever tire of being stupid liar? You must really enjoy your MINORITY status, you've earned it and don't worry , nobody is going to take it from you.

Grumpier,None of ... (Below threshold)
Red Fog:

Grumpier,
None of it matters. It's all a game. We're all puppets, and Washington gets the last laugh.

Wow, did you major in philosophy at truckin' skool? I'll have to ponder the profundity of emotional ambivalence there Socrates.

Answer just one simple question: Who is the 'religious right' that you use as a mantra? Afraid to answer, goat?

LoveAmerican Immig... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerican Immigrant:
LoveAmerican Immigrant: Thanks for admitting that Moore is a propagandist and the liberal democrats were disgraceful for embracing such a proven liar just to win political power.

No problem LAI...my pleasure. However, let's not pretend that the Bush administration hasn't lied extensively just to win political power and advance their agenda. Again...they're all crooks...all politicians, Reps and Dems alike!


You mean Bush repeated the "lies" of Bill Clinton and the prominent Dems when they proclaimed Saddam was a nuclear threat and Clinton even signed the Iraq regime change policy. Or do you mean that Bush should have treated the democrats as liars and not serious about national security? In the end, you don't like the Rep and Dem, so you are for the communists and the jihadists? Cheap rhetoric with no real solution.
It is sad that a strong foreign policy against the enemies of America and the poor/oppressed in the world (like communism and jahadist terrorism) is propagandic.

Strong foreign policy? Are you kidding me? If by "strong" you mean having the balls to engage in a war with complete disregard for logic, intelligence and finance, then yes...I guess that's strong foreign policy.

What would constitute strong foreign policy in my mind is one that takes history and our past actions into account...One that understands that our government can't just use terrorist countries/organizations to advance our interests (i.e. providing Saddam with weapons to help fight Iran, or funding Afghan gorillas to help fight the Soviet Union) when convenient, and then turn on those countries/organizations for possessing the very weapons we gave them, and then expect that those countries won't get pissed off and want to kill us...One that, following the attacks on 9/11, focused on determining why instead of who.


So you meant FDR was wrong for aligning with Stalin in fighting against Hitler? So we have to wage war against both communist Russia and fascist axis at the same time? Is this the logic that you meant? Who are going to make sure that you will be alive to figure out the why?

I know the logic of Bush strategy. I can explain to you if you really don't know it. What I don't understand is why the liberals are willing to provide propaganda service for the most depraved terrorists (like Reuter, AP, NYT, CNN, Durbin, Murtha ...)?

None of it matters. It's al... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerican Immigrant:

None of it matters. It's all a game. We're all puppets, and Washington gets the last laugh.
------------------------------------------------
So which country you are moving to now since America is obviously so bad?

Gumper... Rove is no one's ... (Below threshold)

Gumper... Rove is no one's hero. We just think it's really *really* funny that the left has created this boogy-man. That's why we joke about being on the payroll and joke about getting our secret orders and joke about how every stupid thing done by Democrats is really a super-secret Rovian plot. I don't care much about him. He's a man, not a super man. All presidents have advisors who are presumably good at what they do.

But (and with apologies to mantis) the left needs a grand vizier to manipulate the population because a good wide chunk of it *doesn't* allow diversity of opinion or thought. People can't legitimately think that Iraq was a necessary step in the global war on terror (or even legitimately think that there *is* a global war on terror) so there needs to be a reason. Either they're stupid or they've been manipulated... or both.

What's more, it's become doctrine, absolute and immutable doctrine, that Bush is stupid. In order to believe that Bush is an imbecile a puppet master has to be created. Ta Da! Rove.

It's FUNNY.

(While Bush may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer I bet he got higher scores on his military intelligence evaluations than Kerry did... or why else would Kerry not release that information?)

And on the subject of Moore... (Below threshold)

And on the subject of Moore's letter.

"P.S. Republicans -- sorry to leave you out of this letter. It's just that our side has a little housecleaning to do. We'll take care of you this November."

That's not how it works. You don't win elections by pruning your ranks of the apostate. Unlike religion, politics can't survive doctrinal purity.

Stan:Expl... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Stan:

Explain to my where I'm saying we should "run away" from fighting terrorists. You won't find it.

Was it my unconscionable assumption that you agree we should leave Iraq immediately? If this assumption is correct, then could you tell me if there are terrorists in Iraq?
If we can then agree that there are terrorists in Iraq then the equation looks pretty simple:

Cut and run from Iraq = Running from terrorists.

Of course, if my assumption off the mark I apologize.

Going into Afghanistan is what we should have done. No question. If someone attacks me, I'll hit them back - but I won't be fooled. Bush has fooled you into believing "everything" is connected to terrorism and, my friend, it's not. Iraq was a mistake before it happened and will be a mistake 100 years from now. If we really were to go after the guys who attacked us, why all the lying and false war reasons. No one can properly explain that.

I don't believe everything is connected to terrorism, Stan. If Bush told me it was, I wouldn't believe him.
Is/was Iraq tied to terrorism? I believe it to be the case. There's alot of information about those connections in the form of unclassified documents that came out of Iraq. There was inarguably slipshot information gathered going in, but many have conveniently forgot that they believed our reasons to be just when we deployed. But later, when it bacame apparent that they felt they could attack the administration with a reasonable amount of impunity, they didn't dissapoint. No, this doesn't mean Bush lied, it means he made mistakes, mistakes the left continue to try and crucify him for.

We would be so lucky to think this whole problem was as easy as punching the other guy right back in the face, dusting off our hands and waiting for the next attack, but its not. There's a wider, more complex problem here, and that problem is, dare I say, Islamic terrorism.

Contrary to Lefty's belief this problem didn't magically infest the planet six years ago when a republican took office.

I'm getting tangental though, back to your post:

And as far as our freedoms in this country are concerned, I'm not saying we've turned into a police state - but laws are a slippery slope - and if you allow too many to pass that are not in your favor you will wake up one day wondering what happened to the place you remembered - if you remember when the changes happened at all. Think it's a tall tale? Well, nobody here has that luxury.

I agree laws are a slippery slope and vigilance is of the utmost importance, but undermining out of bipartisan spite (which is largely what I see happening) does no one any good, and frankly, in many cases compromises people's safety.

Lastly, I'm not calling "those who fight the terrorists" cowards. The one's really fighting this war is our military - who anybody with half a brain would have nothing but respect for and support (which I do). No. I'm referring to people like you - who are not in the military but hide behind your big militant opinions that everything your president says is honest and right - and somehow liken themselves to being "terrorist fighters" even though they've done nothing more than vote for incompetent losers.

You eloquently danced around calling me a chickenhawk didn't you?
Well, if support for the war makes me a chickenhawk, then you better be on the next flight to Iraq to help expel the coalition, or you'll be a chickendove.

I have no illusions about my infinitesimal part in the grand scheme of things. I don't fancy myself some heroic "terrorist fighter" because I string a few words together into a coherant sentence and debate sometimes useless points on the internet.
I'm just a citizen as are you, exercising his right to speak. I have what I believe is right and so do you, the difference is what I happen to believe is right is condescendingly labeled as blindly following the president and treating everything he says as gospel. Would you be surprised to find that I voted against Bush twice? I'd imagine you would be...just as I'm not religious either.

If you want a less combative post, and more "well-thought" opinions, try not barging into the thread and calling people "pussy asses" at the end of your blustering opening rant.


Oooo...you got me there,... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oooo...you got me there, Mantis. Nice work! Way to focus on the important things...like spelling.

Repeat after me Grumper: "I will try to get jokes; they will not hurt me. I will try to get jokes; they will not hurt me."

Speaking of moonbat killers... (Below threshold)
Todd:

Speaking of moonbat killers, check out this bright, independent riser who is sure to give Dennis Kucinich a major run for his 10th Congressional seat.

Ever since I started follow... (Below threshold)
kirktoe:

Ever since I started following politics in the early 80's I've always wondered what it must have been like to watch the anti-war crowd of the late 1960's - early 70's tear down this country and in the process sending the Democratic party into the wilderness.

Now I know.

This is absolute insanity.

More Moore!... (Below threshold)

More Moore!

Stan,"We also need... (Below threshold)

Stan,

"We also need to be smart diplomatically, which this president has not."

You are serious in asserting that France, Russia, etc. and the UN are honest participants I the International community? That negotiation and diplomacy have any chance whatsoever? To seriously suggest such is to reveal yourself to be, at best, naïve.

"Iraq was not the battle and never should have been. No amount of rhetoric will make that right."

Avoiding ‘rhetoric’, Iraq was and remains presisely the ‘correct’ country to ‘plant’ within the Middle East the ’seed’ of democracy.

"All I'm saying is that our President's assessment of how to combat terrorism is a failed one - as the outcomes have shown."

A limited perspective, demanding a quick victory, so that we can all get back to our personal lives, will reach that conclusion. A more mature perspective would consul that conflict with nations and regional society’s employing terrorism, in a geopolitical environment opposed to meaningful confrontation, would necessitate a protracted conflict. One that would show little concrete progress in its initial stages.

"Problem is, he's lied so many times he's lost everyone's trust and his motives are now suspect"

If you swallow the distortions of the MSM, self-serving democratic politicians ‘pronouncements’ and the rhetoric of the far left, it is no wonder that you’ve lost your sense of trust in a man who is doing his level best to protect you and yours.

To paraphrase Churchill, “Never have so many been so ungrateful to so few”

Whats that ugly goastfaced ... (Below threshold)
krazy kagu:

Whats that ugly goastfaced moron up to besides being stupid? SQUAWK SQUAWK

Michael Moore is an idiot. ... (Below threshold)
greenstater:

Michael Moore is an idiot. He agrees with a majority of Americans, who now oppose the war. Obviously Michael Moore is as stupid as the rest of this country. Only the enlightened minority understand what it means to be a patriot, and what it means to care about national security.

Why does 60% of America hate America?

Heheh, what a self-right... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Heheh, what a self-righteous, melodramtic, cocky little son of a bitch [Moore] is.

Whaddaya mean, little?

...and to those of ya'll wh... (Below threshold)
greenstater:

...and to those of ya'll who would take Ann Coulter over Michael Moore, rather than feed 'em both to sharks, would you also take her Adam's apple? 'Cuz it's big, and you might lose an eye.

Does Mikey still have that ... (Below threshold)
Aliveritas:

Does Mikey still have that Halliburton stock?

"Fall in line or well de... (Below threshold)
914:

"Fall in line or well destroy You"??

Whats He gonna do?? sit on them?

Does He mean the line at Burger Chef or what?

What a crackpot..

Wow, the trolls are out and... (Below threshold)
bnorm:

Wow, the trolls are out and feeding!
And who's Michael Moore?

Heralder,Thanks fo... (Below threshold)
Stan:

Heralder,

Thanks for the eloquent response. After reading it, I'll tell you that I respect your opinion and, while we disagree on facts, many of them, you're clear on your stance. There are, of course, alot of gray areas in the way people look at these issues and one thing I'd never think - despite how words can sometimes be interpreted - is that everyone is a blind, mindless follower. Some certainly are, just like some on the far left have opinions I can't stand behind and never will.

So Kerry and Edwards are no... (Below threshold)
gnfshn:

So Kerry and Edwards are no longer accepted because they once supported the war but Hillary can still be president if she'll just waffle on back to opposing it. Is Moore so desperate for the "first best hope" for a woman pres that he'll relax his standards for ol' Hill?

Stan,Thanks for th... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Stan,

Thanks for the response. Yes, we may disagree...but the most important thing is that we can debate it with civility. I agree that it's important to not succumb to extremism in either direction. Stick around, perhaps we can joust on another thread.

James:Wha... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

James:

Whaddaya mean, little?

Heh heh. Take your pick, there are many things about Moore's character that are little.

d-brit,A few thing... (Below threshold)
Stan:

d-brit,

A few things:

"You are serious in asserting that France, Russia, etc. and the UN are honest participants I the International community? That negotiation and diplomacy have any chance whatsoever? To seriously suggest such is to reveal yourself to be, at best, naïve."

So, what you're saying is it's us against the world. No one is an honest broker. Diplomacy and negotiations should not even be part of the process because they do not "have any chance whatsoever?" Whatever your misgivings about the hypocracy of other countries, we're hypocrites too, my friend. We support and tolerate regimes like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan because it is in our current interest to do so. Is it right? Doesn't matter. They are "strange bedfellows" and foreign policies aren't always about what's right and wrong in the world. It's usually about what is right for us. Are France and Russia in bed with countries we are - depending on the moment and time in history - opposed to? Sure they are. Maybe they are not honest participants, but every country has it's skeletons and diplomacy has to be part of the process no matter what. To suggest we simply bully our way throughout the world without incorporating it - well - there's enough evidence of how poorly that approach works now. Diplomacy isn't everything, but it's naive to suggest it be scrapped completely.

"Avoiding ‘rhetoric’, Iraq was and remains presisely the ‘correct’ country to ‘plant’ within the Middle East the ’seed’ of democracy."

Seed of democracy. As they say, you can't force democracy on people at barrel of a gun. Some of these countries may someday become democracies, some may not. But to suggest that we can force it around the world is just stupid. Is it an ideal? Sure. But even George Sr. knew what would happen if we tried to overthrow Hussein. Things are not so black and white in this world and you've been believing too much of what you hear.

"A limited perspective, demanding a quick victory, so that we can all get back to our personal lives, will reach that conclusion. A more mature perspective would consul that conflict with nations and regional society’s employing terrorism, in a geopolitical environment opposed to meaningful confrontation, would necessitate a protracted conflict. One that would show little concrete progress in its initial stages."

I won't disagree with what you're saying in the abstract, but your own government misrepresented this war to you, continues to, and a protracted civil war in that country was not their aim. Since it was not what they planned, their planning was wrong. It was a mistake.

"...it is no wonder that you’ve lost your sense of trust in a man who is doing his level best to protect you and yours.To paraphrase Churchill, “Never have so many been so ungrateful to so few”

Are you suggesting I should be "grateful" to my president for doing a job I'm paying him for? He works for us, you and me, and the minute you lose track of that fact you disregard the binding principle of what this country is about.

I have a stockbroker. He's done fine for me, but if he loses money for me three times in a row, I'm gonna get rid of him. If I discover he's misrepresented some of the stocks or has a personal relationship with some of the companies, I'm going to distrust him. Whatever the case, he gets no second or third chances. He wants the job, he's got to perform. Sound harsh? Who cares. It's mine and my family's money and our future. That, my friends and my country - these are the things I'm on this planet for - and sympathies for those not doing as well as me.

He wanted this job and this job has a higher standard. Failure will happen now and again but when it becomes endemic, this man has to go. And as far as him doing his level best to protect me, take a look at Katrina and the Dubai ports deal. It's not an issue of being grateful. It's an issue of performing and what the degrees of success are. Everyone should be harsh about that, no matter who's in office.

Will I thank him for his successes, certainly I will. But it's not a get out of jail free card. If he screws up the next day, I have the right to not like him.

Rob LA,You're a si... (Below threshold)
Frizzy:

Rob LA,

You're a simple man, aren't you. Don't be afraid, you can admit it. Your simple deductions give you away.

It's alright.

We know you enjoy the simple pleasures like widdling a fine walking stick, playing your jews harp and buggering your 3rd cousin, Grizzelda Mae. Heck, who don't enjoy them thangs!

Stan,"So, what you... (Below threshold)

Stan,

"So, what you're saying is it's us against the world. No one is an honest broker."

That is a mischaracterization of my view. I am saying we not pretend to ourselves that 'friends' are in fact, friends.

"support and tolerate regimes like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan because it is in our current interest to do so. ... It's usually about what is right for us."

There is a difference between 'toleration' of those we need in fighting a far greater threat and active opposition by presumed 'allies'.

"Are France and Russia in bed with countries we are ...opposed to? Sure they are."

Terrorists seeking nuclear capabilities, actively supported by rogue nations capable of achieving that goal makes 'enabling' nations covert enemies.

It is unfortunate that the reality of the situation makes you uncomfortable.

"To suggest we simply bully our way throughout the world without incorporating it - well - there's enough evidence of how poorly that approach works now."

Again you misunderstand and/or misstate my position. As for the evidence of how 'poorly' Bush's approach has worked, the Media bears much of the responsibility for this state of affairs. As they are overwhelmingly of the leftist mind-set and actively engaged in advocacy 'journalism', it is hardly objective evidence of your assertions.

"Diplomacy isn't everything, but it's naive to suggest it be scrapped completely."

As things stand, 'Diplomacy' is futile, requiring sincere parties. It's only purpose is to waste time until the situation evolves to the point where overwhelming active Military response is undeniable. When that occurs, many, many more will die and those who seek to appease will have the unnecessary deaths of fellow citizens upon their hands.

You hold Bush to a 'standard' that only a Washington, Lincoln or Churchill could meet and even they had many detractors...you offer no alternative, nor can you.

Impeachment is not a realistic goal so living with the man, foibles and all, is our only course.

It's fine to point out that the 'glass is half empty' but intellectual dishonesty to deny that it is half full as well.

Michael Moore is an idio... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Michael Moore is an idiot. He agrees with a majority of Americans, who now oppose the war. Obviously Michael Moore is as stupid as the rest of this country. Only the enlightened minority understand what it means to be a patriot, and what it means to care about national security.

Sixty percent of Americans have not made a movie suggesting that George Bush attacked the World Trade Center by proxy. Give me a fucking break.

From Michael Moore's letter... (Below threshold)

From Michael Moore's letter:

I realize that there are those like Kerry and Edwards who have now changed their position and are strongly anti-war.

This isn't even close to being true! This list of Iraq war votes proves it: Kerry hasn't voted against a single war funding bill. Not one. (And Edwards hasn't even been around to register his opposition, other than to verbally support continuing the occupation for another 12-18 months.

This is just Moore being a front for the Democratic Party.




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