I’m not defending Nagin in any way.

Could've fooled me.

Paul,

I think most are upset that Nagin called the site of the WTC "just a hole in the ground". I am sure he would get upset if someone called NOLA "just a swamp".

I know better then to expect NOLA to be rebuilt in 12 months. Perhaps you should tell Nagin that. He seems to expect the federal government to go in, wave a magic wand and *presto*-it is all cleaned up and totally rebuilt.

From the get-go he has lobbed race cards and excuses. He was all bent out of shape about Mexican workers coming for the reconstruction jobs and the "Hispanification of New Orleans". He has constantly stated that everything concerning the reconstruction of NOLA is race based-from his "chocolate city" remarks to his recent "blame whitey" remarks because NOLA isn't completely rebuilt by now. It is Nagin who has the unrealistic expectations, not us.

Now...

Only a fool will think that NOLA will ever be the same as it was a year ago. The harsh reality is that the New Orleans you and I knew is dead. Even if it is rebuilt it will never be the same.

It is the people (both good and bad) that make a city what it is and most of the people who evacuated are not going to go back there. Some are traumatized and coould not handle living with the memories, some have had enough of hurricanes and do not want to live within 500 miles of the coast anymore, some simply do not want to live below sea level knowing what can happen, some for finacial reasons, some because they have cut their losses and started a new life where they are now.

Sure, new people will move there for the opprotunities presented and if I were to place a wager NOLA in ten years will not be a "chocloate city", it will be a "flan city" where spanish will be heard more then french.

Paul,

Spot on! No defender of Nagin am I as I think he was the main person to blame for the Katrina debacle but when I saw his comments on Drudge my first reaction was so what. To have a reporter nitpicking as to why he had not rebuilt the city yet was naive and would be frustrating for anyone, regardless of political persuasion. His off the cuff comment was probably out of exasperation and completely understandable.

Paul,
I really admire your tenacity. I am afraid you are talking to fanatics though. La,la,la,la, They don't want to hear a thing. They don't care to hear the truth. They won't even listen to the eye witnesses like you and me because it disturbs their ideas of what America is. It disturbs us too, but we know the truth because we lived it. You were right in an earlier post. I don't want to be part of a conservative party that embraces lies because it fits their party line. I always thought conservative philosophy was based in reason. You identify a problem and you fix it. Not here. They see a problem and spin it to fit the party line. Where is reason in that?
As to Guiliani, I am willing to listen to him. He contacted the city and asked if there was anything he could do to help. He said he realized there was no comparison between what happened in NYC and NOLA. The firemen from NYC that came here to help us said there was no comparison to what they went through and the NOFD went through. They had homes to go home to. Their families were safe. NOFD and NOPD had no such luxury. Many still are living in trailers as are many New Orleanians. All you are going to hear here is that the 300 year old city is in a flood plain (as is Washington DC and London) and we have dark (OH MY GOD!) people in New Orleans so they must be slovenly and no good. This is a real eye opener to me for I have lived with people from different ethnicities my whole life. But to people in much of America, this seems to be a scary thing. They are the OTHER. They are DIFFERENT. (Another OH MY GOD!) It really is sad and something I don't want to be a part of. I thank God every day I grew up in such a wonderful, fascinating and complex city. The naysayers on this board will never know what they missed.
As to Nagin, I really think he is mentally messed up like many in the city. We need a leader. He is definitely lacking in that ability. I don't think he is the anti-Christ, just a guy over his head in a situation where most people would be over their head.

When you look at sheer amount of material and infrastructure destroyed, New Orleans wins hands down. On that point, nobody can disagree. Nagin just has a bad habit and good history of saying stupid/inappropriate things to make his points.

And I think the thing for everybody to think about is that things like big buildings in large cities, or even major portions of cities themselves, don't sprout up in no time. I'd say that both the WTC site and New Orleans will be rebuilt/repaired/revamped in the natural time it takes to do so for each. To the ADD-riddled Americans that may read this:these tasks won't be wrapped up in a nifty little package like you see on a TV show.
According to this site (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/wtc1.html), the WTC planning by the city began in 1962, and the first tower was opened in 1970, and the other in 1972. That's 10 years from initial city engagement to final fruition. Keep that in mind everybody!!! New Orleans will be an even bigger endeavor.

I thought you quit blogging? Couldn't stay away?

DoctorJ said it: There's no comparison. It's apples and oranges, squid and Pontiacs.

Each mayor faced different and difficult challenges. Each dealth with them (or not) to his best ability.

People tend to think Guiliani did a good job and that Nagin didn't. Maybe that's just East Coast PR; maybe that's just a fact.

Paul:

"In New Orleans, the Corps of Engineers destroyed an entire city."

Statements like that make the entire rest of your posting, which by the way I tend to agree with, a worthless bunch of crap. The Army Corps of Engineers didn't destroy anything, Katrina did!

You can never appear rational, when you start off sounding irrational.

I think you missed the point of Nagin's comments AND the people who are criticizing him for them, Paul.

Nagin was making claims about how much had been accomplished, and a reporter pointed at a visible piece of evidence that refuted the claim, whereupon Nagin attacked the NYC effort for no goddamned reason whatsoever.

Nagin's criticizing the REBUILDING by dismissively and vitriolically calling Ground Zero "a hole in the ground" (which it is, but no need to be an asshole about it) and trying to use that to defend his own incompetence.

He's not talking about the cleanup of GZ. He himself compaired REBUILDING to CLEANUP. It was a false comparison from the start, and more evidence that Chocolate Cityboy doesn't know his ass from his elbow. You're compounding the false comparison and taking it further out to left field.

Nagin wasn't properly comparing cleanup to cleanup. He was incorrectly trying to use the lack of rebuilding the GZ site to defend the lack of cleanup...not rebuilding, but clearing of debris, in New Orleans.

Well said doctorj, and your analysis on the way America views the two tragedies is right on.Most in middle America see Nawlins as some exotic outpost, with a funny culture, and people, -black and white- who are different. On the other hand, New York is really America's capitol and by default, Guilliani was made the hero after 911, even though I have yet to see just what he did that was so outstanding.

BTW USMC, Paul's comments about the Army Corp of Engineers is not outrageous. Especially when they ADMITTED that they f#@%@d up the levees that they were charged to build.
We can sit here and point all the fingers in the world, but the bottom line is, if the levees had held up, we would not have had a disaster of this magnitude. And yes, Nagin, like so many people in the "big easy", needs counseling big time!

As a MAYOR OF A CITY you are suppose to know every
nook and cranny of your city, further if you have 3 to 7 days to prepare your city for a disaster
and you don t get your ducks in a row until it was to late you don t deserve to throw stones at
someone else to save your hide.

Living in here in south Florida we have seen our share of storms, and when a storm approachs we make sure that the elderly, homeless people are evacuated from the keys and low lying areas.

The best example is the free shuttle service for all the keys.

Those in hospitals are flown to other parts of the state.
This was a complete break down from Mayor to Gov.

USMC Pilot, you have exactly zero clue what you are talking about. Search our archive for Corps Katrina and get back to me.

Here's a hint... The Corps admitted they flooded New Orleans not Katrina. Get some knowledge and come back to why don't ya. Sigh.

---------------

As a MAYOR OF A CITY you are suppose to know every
nook and cranny of your city, further if you have 3 to 7 days to prepare your city for a disaster
and you don t get your ducks in a row until it was to late you don t deserve to throw stones at
someone else to save your hide.

Sigh... Stupidity on parade. We had about 48 hours notice, not 7 days.

Buy a clue.

-----------------

Nahanni, well, you're still just a clueless idiot.

Nagin - A poor leader way over his head. But he shouldn't be damned because NOLA hasn't been fixed yet. The problem is monumental. He should be damned for the piss-poor planning, poor leadership, and big mouth he has displayed since.

What destroyed NOLA was a culture of corruption, of lies, of living for the moment. Everyone loved the city the same way they "loved" a cheap hooker. Sorry NOLA, but your city had a reputation of corruption a mile long before the hurricane hit. Nothing since has changed by the excuses.

Giuliani - overrated, but so what? He did a good job after 9/11, and was a great mayor even before the disaster. And by the by - hauling away the remains of the trade center was also a monumental task. I don't see how running down Giuliani makes Nagin, or anyone else look better. Just petty.

NOLA lovers - guess what? Race doesn't have a thing to do with how people feel about NOLA. Neither does whether or not someone ever had the joyous NOLA "experience". Comments like that simply illustrate your own prejudices, your own racism. Running down others doesn't make you look better.

What does matter is leadership. NOLA has to care enough about their city to rebuild it, to protect it. If you don't, why should I care what happens to it? When Nagin got re-elected I said the hell with NOLA. If you re-elect an obvious incompetent, then it shows you don't really care that much about your city after all.

Let me ask you this. What if Nagin used his mouth to loudly and repeatedly provide a laundry list of what NOLA needs? Of what the rest of us can do to help? Of encouragement and thanks?

I can tell you. He'd seem a lot more like Giuliani and less like a fool.

I think you missed the point of Nagin's comments AND the people who are criticizing him for them, Paul.

Nagin was making claims about how much had been accomplished, and a reporter pointed at a visible piece of evidence that refuted the claim, whereupon Nagin attacked the NYC effort for no goddamned reason whatsoever.

Have you watched the video??? I didn't think so.

Don't try to bullshit me.

Go watch the video before you embarrass yourself. Again.

The difference in scale between hurricane damage and terrorist attacks is not the point. The events were very different in nature, but they both tested two mayors of important cities. Hurricane Katrina did not attack New Orleans. It was a storm. New York was attacked. In fact, all of the US was the target. No one knew if that was it or if more waves of attacks were coming. Rudy helped New York and the rest of the country weather the attacks and recover. Who was inspired by Nagin? Who drew courage from him? Who learned leadership from him? Nagin is a corrupt, incompetant fool. What he says is not important.

"If you placed all the cars destroyed in New Orleans end to end they would reach from the broken 17th street canal floodwall all the way to New York’s ground zero."

...the only reason there were enough destroyed cars to stretch from NO to NYC is because Nagin didn't get the people to use them to evacuate themselves from the city...now he gets a break because it is a bigger job to clean them up?

Nagin may need some defenders if the people of NY and other Yankee's quit visiting the sin din of N.O. Can he feed the population his 'chocolate city'?

The propaganda has restarted to CYA Nagin and the most inept governor in history. There was enough supplies and man power on standby to rescue the entire south but they were blocked by stupidity in La. Everyone else (except La)effected seems to be doing well and on the way to recovery. Wonder if and when he's going to get caught with his hand in the Kitty,or did he take a humvee and go retrieve all of the evidence.

DoctorJ said it: There's no comparison. It's apples and oranges, squid and Pontiacs.

I gotta second this.

However, the big difference to me was, New York got hit out of the blue and Giuliani got down to business. He didn't whine and complain about the lack of fed help(though he may have behind the scenes). New Orleans had advance warning, and Nagin did. Giuliani acted more like a leader and Nagin did not. I was more inclined to help the rest of the region who DIDN'T display the woe is me and why aren't I getting more and faster help from the rest of you people attitude. But thats just me.

Apples and oranges.

That said, more people died on 9/11, murdered, than Katrina killed. Many of the Katrina deaths were totally preventable if Nagin and Blanco had followed their pre-existing plans.

The Corps may have flooded NOLA, but they killed no one. The personal choices made by some of the residents, and the decisions by politicians not to follow their plans did that. And, one could argue, the Corps did exactly what the politicians told it to do. It's been a source of pork and a political pawn for decades and the people of NOLA reaped the results. And until a year ago, the majority of the people of New Orleans were content with those conditions.

The disaster that struck New Orleans demonstrates one great truth. Don't count on the government.

Rudy is an icon. Whether or not he was right or wrong during the murders on 9/11, his was the calm and serious voice everyone in the United State heard. On 9/10 he was an SOB. On 9/12 he could have been elected Pope. In a narrow set of circumstances, he met a need the people had for a leader. He inspired us all at a time when we needed inspiration.

Nagin and Blanco cannot say that. Not ever.

So Paul - if Katrina hadn't come along NOLA would have flooded anyway. since the Corps "caused" the flooding? Uh-huh.

And, of course, no one in NOLA has any responsibility whasoever for protecting their own city?

And another thing - Paul - you might know NOLA and Katrina, but I suspect you are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to enginnering, construction, demolition, or emergency response. Your comments suggest as much. Don't be mad - most people don't understand these issues any better than you do.

Look, what is pissing the rest of us off is not whether or not the city has been re-built, but this mindless whinning blame game by everyone in NOLA.

To illustrate. My neighbor (Mr. Nagin) puts a shitty cheap roof on his house. The wind blows off his shingles.

Mr. Nagin then starts in. It was the contractor. It was the goverment. It was me for being an uncaring racist and not jumping up to help him immediately. I could've/would've/ should've saved his roof for him. Waaaahhh.

Meanwhile, down the street, Mr. Guliani is busy tacking back up his shingles. I decide to go by and help. He says "thanks bud." I feel good.

Paul - you getting any of this?

You are mixing apples and oranges. New York was hit out of the blue in a murderous terrorist attack. New Orleans found itself under water in an utterly predictable natural disaster. Like an earthquake in California it was known that this would happen, yet hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars alloted over decades to Louisiana for flood control projects found their way into the pockets of corrupt local politicians and their pet projects.

Frankly, New Orleans was a damp dump before Katrina and I wonder why anybody in their right mind would want to rebuild such a thing. Maybe people in Houston would . I'm sure they are ready return the human crime wave back to where it came from.

Paul if you are going to tell me you only had 48hrs I guess you just did not bother taking the advice from every weather broadcaster in the US.
the national hurrcanne center gives you a 3-7 day window.
Even if you say u had 48 hrs all the school buses
that was at their disposal ( which we here in florida use to evacuate all the time) in a 24hr period do realize how many people could have left.

THE MAYOR AND THE GOV. ARE RESPONIBLE !!!!!

So Paul - if Katrina hadn't come along NOLA would have flooded anyway. since the Corps "caused" the flooding? Uh-huh.

Actually yes. You're making me tip my hand. Come back Monday I have a post you'll be intersted in... New Orleans was going to flood with out without Katrina. In months not years. The levee broke under basically zero load.

Come back Monday.

And another thing - Paul - you might know NOLA and Katrina, but I suspect you are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to enginnering, construction, demolition, or emergency response. Your comments suggest as much.

Well, I had 1 engineering professor who would have agreed but I managed to fool the rest.

Another hint for you... The Corps admitted the flooded New Orleans not Katrina.

You might want to follow this link and come back when you're a litte more knowledge.

Are you getting any of this?

Paul if you are going to tell me you only had 48hrs I guess you just did not bother taking the advice from every weather broadcaster in the US.
the national hurrcanne center gives you a 3-7 day window.
Even if you say u had 48 hrs all the school buses
that was at their disposal ( which we here in florida use to evacuate all the time) in a 24hr period do realize how many people could have left.

THE MAYOR AND THE GOV. ARE RESPONSIBLE !!!!!

So Paul - if Katrina hadn't come along NOLA would have flooded anyway. since the Corps "caused" the flooding? Uh-huh.

Actually yes. You're making me tip my hand. Come back Monday I have a post you'll be intersted in... New Orleans was going to flood with out without Katrina. In months not years. The levee broke under basically zero load.

Come back Monday.

And another thing - Paul - you might know NOLA and Katrina, but I suspect you are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to enginnering, construction, demolition, or emergency response. Your comments suggest as much.

Well, I had 1 engineering professor who would have agreed but I managed to fool the rest.

Another hint for you... The Corps admitted the flooded New Orleans not Katrina.

You might want to follow this link and come back when you're a litte more knowledge.

Are you getting any of this?

Wilky and Big D describe perfectly what bothers a lot of people about NOLA. Nagin has been nothing but a whiny ass since Katrina hit. Whine, complain, blame - thats all he's done. NOLA is messed up and will take years to rebuild - no intelligent person will disagree but Nagin needs to be acting like a leader and he has no clue what leadership is.

Guiliani acted like a leader - before and after 9/11.

Hopefully NOLA will get rebuilt and the folks that migrated north will return so that the crime rates that went up in places like Atlanta, Nashville, and Houston will go down.

Paul if you are going to tell me you only had 48hrs I guess you just did not bother taking the advice from every weather broadcaster in the US.
the national hurrcanne center gives you a 3-7 day window.

Sigh... Stupid and unwilling to learn -- a dangerous combo.

Friday afternoon the Nationa Hurricane Center was predicting it would hit Florida. By Friday night they revised it to the east 150 miles. By Sunday night the game was over.

Now please.... I've not deleted anyone from this thread for being stupid. Don't be the first.

But I'm glad the stupid poeple who have no clue are so vocal in blaming Nagin. It so proves my point.

Is it really necessary for you to be such an asshole in replying?

The piece for 60 minutes hasn't aired yet, so I'm not sure where we're supposed to watch this video you say I need to watch. I'm getting my information here.

On a tour of the decimated Ninth Ward, Nagin tells Pitts the city has removed most of the debris from public property and it’s mainly private land that’s still affected – areas that can’t be cleaned without the owners' permission. But when Pitts points to flood-damaged cars in the street and a house washed partially into the street, the mayor shoots back. "That’s alright. You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair."

My point still stands. Nagin criticized the REBUILDING, and people are criticizing him for CLEANUP. Two different animals. Nagin made a false comparison. Apples and engine blocks.

But before any rebuilding can take place, the clean-up and restoration of the city’s infrastructure must be complete and it will be Mayor Nagin, recently re-elected, who leads the efforts.

Cleanup. Rebuilding. Two different things.

Paul maybe you do too much blogging if you only realized 48hrs that a storm has heading towards you while every weather forecaster had dire predictions for days in advance.
You also know that the national hurrcane center
gives you a 3-7 day forcast.

OK I'm done. Deleted You're a moron.

>Wilky and Big D describe perfectly what bothers a lot of people about NOLA. Nagin has been nothing but a whiny ass since Katrina hit. Whine, complain, blame - thats all he's done.

Al have you ever -even for a second- considered the very real possibility that the federal response might have been deplorable and he's had the nerve to say it.

Something for you to consider.

Why the comparison to Rudy Giuliani at all? The attacks happened the day the mayoral vote was to have taken place, and even though it was delayed, he was out of office by April 1.
Shouldn't the comparison be to Bloomberg, if there is to be one? Frankly, I think Nagin's comment is defensible withoug placing a 5-year NY rebuilding problem on a man that's been out of office for 4.5 years.

I actually think Nagin made a fair point. It is going to take years to rebuild NO, and politics get in the way. Just as they do for rebuilding the WTC site.

Al have you ever -even for a second- considered the very real possibility that the federal response might have been deplorable and he's had the nerve to say it.

At what point does he cowboy up and get to fucking work, though? How many times can one cry "BUT THE FEDS!" ???

OK. Fed response sucked. Tha