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They Never Cease To Shock

John Hawkins and other bloggers occasionally quote outrageous statements they find posted at The Democratic Underground. Some of those quotes are pretty shocking, but since the posters are anonymous I sometimes wonder if they are all written by crazed liberals or if some are left by jokesters. I find that preferable to believing there are so many crazy people out there.

This blog post from Robert at Thorn Tree is on the front page, though, not hidden in the comments section or part of a message board. The post is in reaction to the news of a film depicting the assassination of George Bush, which I blogged here yesterday.

Several comments to make on this:

First of all to all the lefty bloggers out there falling all over yourselves to say "Of course, I wouldn't want the president killed", shut the hell up. You know you would do a little dance if someone whacked that idiot. You just want to appear "above" such a thing.

Secondly, the only real problem I have is that he's gunned down. Too quick. A flash of pain and then the big dirt nap. For Bush I would prefer bone cancer, flesh-eating bacteria, or perhaps one of those deadly four hour erections we keep hearing about.

Alright, seriously. I would prefer Bush spend the rest of his life in a cell, tried and convicted of war crimes, but somehow I just don't think it's going to happen. So I can only hope for him to suffer in some other way.

Sad that I've been reduced to wishing great physical agony and death to my fellow humans but I truly believe that he deserves to suffer. Many right bloggers refer to my kind of hatred as Bush Derangement Syndrome, but I prefer to call it a yearning for karmic justice. This president has overseen the most criminal, arrogantly stupid, and homicidal administration in American history. He, and his partners in crime, deserve whatever horrors that karma may have in store for them.

As for Bush's cheerleaders on the Internet, such as the creepy Anchoress (who, by the way, is another right wing blogger that doesn't allow comments because she's such a coward) I can only hope that someone they care for deeply dies in one of Bush's wars of choice.

That seems fair.


Been saving up lots of dark thoughts. Can you tell?

See D.J. Drummond's related post below.

Update: Beth at My Vast Right Wing Conspiracy thinks this is just a small sampling of such anti-Bush craziness.

This is cross-posted at Right Wing News, where I am guest blogging today.


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference They Never Cease To Shock:

» The Anchoress linked with Real attempts on the president’s life

» MY Vast Right Wing Conspiracy linked with Just when you thought the Bush-deranged couldn’t get worse

Comments (60)

It is really tragic that th... (Below threshold)
Lee:

It is really tragic that the administration has split this country apart to the extent evident from this post.

Didn't George promise to bridge the gap and bring America together again? Chalk up another failure for the republican'ts....

Didn't know you had such a ... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Didn't know you had such a good sense of humor, Lee ... That was funny ...

Lee,The person quo... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Lee,

The person quoted above, I don't care who is in office, they have serious issues. If Michael Moore became president I wouldn't speak of him in that way, and yet, when obviously fucked up people decide to vomit up their theories and ideologies, it's because Bush made them do it.

Right Lee?

I believe we've had this discussion about laying blame.

Lorie:It's the Lef... (Below threshold)
todd:

Lorie:

It's the Left's new sufferage movement. They have to believe and march to something. I hear they are forming a new band - Molly Hatchets Bush and the Sufferagettes.

I do hope he enjoys the lit... (Below threshold)
Cybrludite:

I do hope he enjoys the little chat the Secret Service will be having with him in the near future...

A civil war in Iraq is just... (Below threshold)
Lee:

A civil war in Iraq is just around the corner (as I predicted weeks ago).

WASHINGTON - Sectarian violence is spreading in Iraq, reflecting the most complex security challenges since the U.S. invasion in 2003, the Pentagon said Friday.

"Conditions that could lead to civil war exist in Iraq, specifically in and around Baghdad, and concern about civil war within the Iraqi civilian population has increased in recent months," it said in a quarterly report to Congress on U.S. efforts to stabilize the country.

Perhaps a civil war between the red states and the blue states won't be far behind? The republican'ts failed to pull people together in Iraq - and the same is obvious here. Tensions arei ncreasing - rhetoric increasing -- hate and then violence -- how far behind?

The republicans have torn our nation apart.

Since when does The Anchore... (Below threshold)

Since when does The Anchoress not allow comments?

Lee, you've been predicting... (Below threshold)
Chuckg:

Lee, you've been predicting that Iraq was just weeks away from a civil war for how many years now?

Now we can stop blaming the... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Now we can stop blaming the fall of the democrats on the left wing element. Without any doubt the insanity is throughout the democratic party. I will no longer refer to the left wing element, just call them the main line democrats. They have fallen for the Socialist/Communist line and are all actively working for the destruction of America. This is not BDS is action, but real old time insanity. It's good thing they (democrats) have decided not to breed or to kill all of their childred. It will only take a few years for them to kill themselves off.

Didnt Lee just advocate ope... (Below threshold)
UncleZeb:

Didnt Lee just advocate open rebellionn and revolution?

That he could make those co... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

That he could make those comments lends truth to the fact that the leftists in this country have turned into frothing id10t's that flail at anything or one which varies from their beliefs.

Lee, ever heard of 'Open Season' and 'No bag limit"? Didn't think so.

You better pray hard to whatever god you worhip that it doesn't happen.

"Lee, you've been predic... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Lee, you've been predicting that Iraq was just weeks away from a civil war for how many years now?"

Just this past month.

Somebody put this guy on "n... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Somebody put this guy on "news" shows daily, like they do with Ann Coulter.

This from the progressive t... (Below threshold)
DavidB:

This from the progressive thinking, understanding, and accepting left. At least that's what they want you to think anyway.

Predicting that Iraq would descend into Civil War is nothing new and has been passed around for quite some time. So don't go patting yourself on the back moron, and I notice you left out the rest of the article that states . . .

"Nevertheless, the current violence is not a civil war, and movement toward a civil war can be prevented," added the report, which said the security environment was at its most complex state since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 that toppled President Saddam Hussein.

Reuters Article link

At least have the balls to provide a link to your drivel so we can slap you with your stupidity and selective quoting.

Oh, and once, just once, try to stay on topic.

Nah, Lee was just repeating... (Below threshold)

Nah, Lee was just repeating how it's all Bush's fault that the nation is divided because we all know how much the Democrats are willing to play nice with others.

What Bush *did* was refuse to pretend he was a Democrat when he got elected, but hey, he should have, you know. He should have been kissing Dem butt from day one, screw the Republicans who voted for him.

Bush said, let's work together, Dems said, I'd rather be shaved with a dull razor and dipped in lemon juice but if you debase yourself and betray the people who voted for you and if "work together" means do things our way, then we'll think about it.

Leave it to Lee to get this... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Leave it to Lee to get this thread off subject from the get go. Let's get to the real heart of the matter. The fact that someone—be they Republican or Democrat—wishes such suffering or vile "karmic justice" on ANYONE or ANY PERSON is just disgusting, sick and inhumane. Whatever your opinions may be of President Bush, it is absolutely, positively beyond the pale to wish such great ill will on that person. To contemplate such thoughts shows a utter lack of humanity and decency; values liberals claim to have in spades. I cannot even fathom how sickly hypocritical it is.

Honestly and seriously, do any of you liberals sincerely believe Bush deserves a worse fate than Osama bin Landen, suicide bombers, Saddam Hussein and so on?

Lee!!!! You turd polishing ... (Below threshold)
DoninFla:

Lee!!!! You turd polishing maniac!!!Feel pretty good about yourself do ya?

Lee bleated:It is... (Below threshold)
Patrick Chester:

Lee bleated:
It is really tragic that the administration has split this country apart to the extent evident from this post.

Odd, the hatred from the posting and you looks pretty self-inflicted.

Lee - First, regardless wha... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

Lee - First, regardless what other folks are writing, go take a look at the Webster's definition of a Civil War. Then start your rant.

Then: "Perhaps a civil war between the red states and the blue states won't be far behind?"

Lee, for your sake I hope this does not happen. Although you make it sound like you would welcome it. Why? Very simple - those of us from the Red states take great pride in practicing the art of hunting. And even though you would make for a pretty poor excuse for a trophy, you would make for an easy target and it would be a cinch for even the poorest of hunters to bag his/her limit in a heartbeat.

Be careful what you wish for little man, you might just get it!

Synova wrote:Bush... (Below threshold)
Patrick Chester:

Synova wrote:
Bush said, let's work together, Dems said, I'd rather be shaved with a dull razor and dipped in lemon juice but if you debase yourself and betray the people who voted for you and if "work together" means do things our way, then we'll think about it.

...and it's Bush's fault, to use LeeLogic.


Lorie, you have an interest... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Lorie, you have an interesting, though not surprising, habit of conflating one person's words into those of many. You do it subtly, but it is there. You title this post

They Never Cease To Shock

Yet the offensive post you call attention to is from one person. Who are the "they"? You also did it yesterday in your post about the Bush assassination movie, where you commented:

The most important thing for liberals to consider in their Bush assassination fantasies is that the result would be President Dick Cheney.

Somehow a British filmmaker becomes "liberals" with assassination fantasies. How did that happen?

I'm a liberal, and I absolutely, unequivocally wish no harm upon the President or any member of his administration. The assassination of an American President, no matter who he or she is, would be a great tragedy that would shake this nation to its core, I believe even moreso than the attacks of 9/11. For that matter, I and every liberal I know wish to get rid of politicians the old-fashioned way, by voting them out. Also, if this President or any other were guilty of high crimes or misdemeanors, I would like to see him or her impeached and convicted. But never, ever, would I wish for assassination. This Robert at Thorn Tree is a jackass who speaks only for himself.

So please, enough of the Malkinesque tactic of taking one idiot's comments and trying to make them those of everyone who disagrees with you. Even here on this site, Lee and his comments don't represent me or my views, yet we're both pretty liberal (although I suspect he is moreso than me, if for no other reason than he doesn't think about it all that much; he's a reactionary).

Aside from all of that, as far as being afraid of Cheney becoming President if something were to happen to President Bush, I wouldn't worry about it. Cheney already calls the shots.

Perhaps a civil war betw... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Perhaps a civil war between the red states and the blue states won't be far behind?

Geez, I dunno, Lee? Is that what you really want? Personally I think we can kick your wussy asses. I've seen your emaciated vegetarian buddies and I ain't very skeert.

Perhaps a civil wa... (Below threshold)
kbiel:
Perhaps a civil war between the red states and the blue states won't be far behind?

Is this a fantasy of yours or another prediction. It could come true if you and your ilk fire the first shot, Lee. I have to warn you though, them red-neck, God-bothered, ignorant red staters you want to start a civil war with because they are the cause of all your problems have been practicing at the range since they were wee little eichmanns.

Who are the "they"? <... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Who are the "they"?

Here's "they", idiot: http://zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/

Recognize yourself?

You know, I don't recognize... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You know, I don't recognize myself in those photos, idiot. That's probably because I would never participate in such a disgusting display. But I am liberal, so clearly I agree with those assholes, right?

But you're on the right, presumably, so I can just lump you in with these guys, right? Recognize yourself?

Oh wait, you don't, because it's absurd to lump everyone on the right into the category of racist nutjobs, even if they are quite common in the anti-immigration movement.

But I am liberal, so cle... (Below threshold)
Clay:

But I am liberal, so clearly I agree with those assholes, right?

Well, I certainly would start distancing myself, too. Because you folks are fixing to lose another election because of 'em. The problem with you liberals is that you don't have the balls to stand up to those assholes.

The problem with you lib... (Below threshold)
mantis:

The problem with you liberals is that you don't have the balls to stand up to those assholes.

Shall I go an slit their throats while they sleep? The link you gave showed pictures of people exercising their rights to free speech. I have no intention of stopping them from doing so. How do you propose I "stand up to them"?

"Be careful what you wish f... (Below threshold)

"Be careful what you wish for little man, you might just get it!"

Yeah Lee SS [How ironic is that handle?) and his friends will get us blue staters. Remember, they have all the guns from the hunting they are always doing. And I am sure they know how to survive in the wild as well. Yep, I bet they would love nothing more than to gulp some moonshine, and go firing away at us lib blue staters. I must confess though, that I would be torn on this one. My wife is from Louisiana, and some of my best friends still live in red state country. And, most of them are libs. So I wonder what the red state army will do; put them in prison camps, deport them? Yeah this war will be really interesting. Hopefully, both sides will have a draft, we will see how long it lasts then.

So don't worry Lee, I have your back. I wonder what their flag will look like? I know it will be red, and it will have a rifle, and a cross on it somewhere. Ours of course will be blue, and have some stars and... hey, why don't we just keep the one we have now? ["Old Glory"] After all, it was created by a blue stater to begin with. And while we are at it, we will just keep this constitution too. I wonder what theirs will look like?

????????? No Lee, we better try to make peace after all. The field does not want to go back to those days if we lose.

I wonder what their flag... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I wonder what their flag will look like?

My, oh my, but you all do go on with your fantasies. I guess you have to have an imagination in order to pretend that someday you'll have a Dem president.

we will just keep this constitution too

What the hell are you talking about? Blue-staters don't even like the constitution. Oh wait, that's where the imagination thing comes in. You fantasizing that it contains the right for abortion on demand, and all.

if we lose

If? You guys ought to be accustomed to losing by now.

To bad “anonymous” doesn’t ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

To bad “anonymous” doesn’t have the balls to go public like Ann Coulter. She said:
-Clinton should be assassinated
-Chaffee should have been shot
-All Muslim leads should be executed
-Supreme Court Justice Souter should be poisoned

field-negro:Actual... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

field-negro:

Actually your flag won't have any blue in it at all. No, thanks to your lack of vision and your willingness to appease, here's what your flag will look like.

Shall I go an slit their... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Shall I go an slit their throats while they sleep?

Oh my. Terribly violent, aren't we? You aren't bright enough to conceive of exercising your own right to free speech by resisting them in their efforts to highjack your party? Wake up, dummy! Those people are the dem party and you're not doing squat to stop them. Personally, I'm loving it. Just makes it easier for us. You slugs make me laugh. Your party has become a caricature. A funny little cartoon with Howard Dean, John Kerry, and Michael Moore. Oh and don't forget Jimmah Carter.

Oh my. Terribly violent,... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oh my. Terribly violent, aren't we?

I'm just curious how far you want me to go in "standing up to them".

You aren't bright enough to conceive of exercising your own right to free speech by resisting them in their efforts to highjack your party?

No, I'm just not bright enough to speak for myself. I'm doing it right now, but nevermind that. By the way, it's not my party. I'm unaffiliated.

Those people are the dem party and you're not doing squat to stop them.

Apparently you haven't spent much time in San Francisco. I can tell you for certain that almost none of the people in those pictures are in the Democratic Party. Those types tend to be Green or Socialist, they regard both the Democratic and Republican parties to be two sides of the same coin (so do I, incidentally, on many issues). Do you really think those people would agree with Hillary Clinton or other Democrats' policies? They think our government is owned by Israel and corporations and most of them would rather see it fall entirely than vote for a Democrat. I have known many of those types and they're deluded, naive, and largely harmless. Democrats they are not.

But if you really believe that crazies protesting against Israel in San Francisco are going to sway any elections, keep deluding yourself. None of those people are running for office.

Am I the only one here who'... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Am I the only one here who's never heard of the blog Thorn Tree? Who IS this guy? Why are you giving him publicity?

field-negro -- wouldn't wan... (Below threshold)

field-negro -- wouldn't want you to go back to those days either! But their ain't a single true-blooded conservative who would want that anyway--despite hyperventilating liberal fantasies.

(almost) everyone else -- it never ceases to amaze me how you all let the turd-polisher Lee hijack your threads. He knows how to push your buttons and get the right reactions just about every single time.

Well, here's what happens when you polish turds too much:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30082006/323/
tomkitten-s-first-poop-display-new-york.html

The civil war BS and compla... (Below threshold)

The civil war BS and complaints about how Bush is responsible for how divided the country is are as baseless as fears about the impending theocracy or a return to some "bad old days" (though my guess is field-negro was being mostly sarcastic) or concentration camps for homosexuals and whatever else silliness comes around every little bit, like Handmaid's Tale which got made into a musical and got the admiration of a wide swath of the intellectual elite... well, people need an antagonist.

Even if they have to make one up.

Now, there are real places in the real world where theocracy, the bad-old-days, imprisonment for homosexuality (or death), Handmaid's Tale-esq ownership of women... where those things are true.

So who's the liberal? The people opposing those things, or the people opposing the people who oppose those things?

I'm just curious how far... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I'm just curious how far you want me to go in "standing up to them".

Well, gawsh, that's up to you. I really don't lay awake at night thinking about this sort of stuff. I'll just leave the violent imagery to you. You can work out how you want to do the deed. Geez, use a wood chipper like Sadaam for all I care.

Actually, I have spent alot of time in SF. And on moveon.org. You know what? It really doesn't matter how much you distance yourself. The die is cast and the shoe is fitting. Those images that I shared? That's who middle-America is seeing as the democrats. You guys are snake-bit and you don't even know it.

Ohhhhhh. You're unaffiliated. That means you can be so much above this, huh? How nice for you. That means you can take pot shots at all sides while being the biggest pussy ever created. Even better for us. Keep up the good work.

Geez, use a wood chipper... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Geez, use a wood chipper like Sadaam for all I care.

Personally, I would care about people killing my fellow citizens, but to each his own, I guess.

Those images that I shared? That's who middle-America is seeing as the democrats.

I live in middle-America. The people I know there don't frequent zombietime.com.

Ohhhhhh. You're unaffiliated. That means you can be so much above this, huh? How nice for you. That means you can take pot shots at all sides while being the biggest pussy ever created.

Ah, because I have the courage of my convictions and don't join some group I disagree with just because it feels safer to be part of a team, I'm the "biggest pussy ever created"? Ok, but at least I can think for myself.

Keep up the good work.

Will do.

Wow. The dander is really u... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Wow. The dander is really up today and I haven't even chimed in.
Maybe later. Breathe, breathe, breathe......

Let's agree on one thing..o... (Below threshold)
Drew:

Let's agree on one thing..our civil war was a military attempt by southern states to DESTROY the United State of America...
In spite of the largest terrorist attacks..in spite of a standing Army of terrorists..We live in the United States of America because they were defeated.
How dare a flag the represents the indended destruction of the United State of America be held in any kind of respect...and for those of you that hold the "stars and bars" with respect..don't talk to we Union "moonbats" about what it is to be an American..
Robert E. Lee graduating from West Point and then leading an Army against the United States of America would be the same as a West Point Graduate becoming bin Laden's #1...

Getting back to the thread.... (Below threshold)
Drew:

Getting back to the thread....of course it is dangerous to have a movie about killing Bush...
but of course Ann (what about that adam's apple)
Coulter can a Headline of her latest article
"They Killed the Wrong Lincoln"
A headline that implies a sitting Senator of the United States should be shot?....oh yeah..it's a joke when Ann says it.

don't talk to we Union "... (Below threshold)
Clay:

don't talk to we Union "moonbats" about what it is to be an American..

Get this straight: I'll talk to you anytime I damned well please.

it's a joke when Ann say... (Below threshold)
Clay:

it's a joke when Ann says it.

Are you stupid? Who was talking about Ann Coulter before you brought her (and her adam's apple) up?

Oh, by the way, Clay, what ... (Below threshold) Pull Lee a little slack, he... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Pull Lee a little slack, he just lost a three year argument about who outed Val Plame. They'e all suffering a severe bout of depression. Someone pass them some prozac. As I said in the first post I made on a blog, Ruptured ego Joe did it, amd it turned out to be true, Unlike the lies we know for sure Joe and the democrats told to support their love for Saddam. Wanna be loved by Lee and friends, become a socialist/communist America hating slime ball terrorists.

Crap. ">Here's the l... (Below threshold)
mantis:
Link works in preview but d... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Link works in preview but doesn't post correctly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/rasmussen/partisantrends20060901

Perhaps a civil war betw... (Below threshold)

Perhaps a civil war between the red states and the blue states won't be far behind? The republican'ts failed to pull people together in Iraq - and the same is obvious here. Tensions arei ncreasing - rhetoric increasing -- hate and then violence -- how far behind?

The republicans have torn our nation apart.

Posted by: Lee at September 1, 2006 02:19 PM

Lee, Lee, Lee...you must forget how many guns the red staters actually have.

I hate to chime into an ins... (Below threshold)

I hate to chime into an insult fest, but Mantis, Nazis were not right-wing and neither is/was fascism, though the site you linked to clearly believes both are and were. Is your linking an effort of endorsement to the the beliefs on that particular post?

My g-d in heaven please rem... (Below threshold)
jainphx:

My g-d in heaven please remember those who really try to be peace makers.The peace makers are those that are willing to fight against terror and terrorist where ever they are found.Those who proclaim that talk can stop people like Osama,Hesralla,Amadinanutjob are forever subserviant to them.No use trying argument on them,they would rather blame the very ones who are saving them from them selves.To think their are people that would revel in the assasination of GWB is really nuts, no make that evil.There is no help for these people.I say ignore them until they try this type of indever then smash them.

Drew wrote:"Let's ... (Below threshold)

Drew wrote:

"Let's agree on one thing..our civil war was a military attempt by southern states to DESTROY the United State of America..."

Oh? Is that really what the war was about? Who exactly delcared war upon whom? Which 'side' was negating the entire premise of the Constitution which called for ulitmate authority to reside within state legistlators? Which states carried larger federal taxes because those goods were taxed more?

It's as if you haven't a clue what you're talking about yet you go around and claim you do. Have you actually opened that history book your grade school teacher gave you this school year or is there still a glass of herbal tea resting on the General Motors book cover?

(Ignoring the little war in... (Below threshold)
Beth:

(Ignoring the little war in this thread)

This "thorntree" guy is a real piece of work. This rant of his is just sick, but not surprising. And did you see how he responded to the commenters? Specifically, to this one?

Major K said...

My wife of 26 years and the mother of my two children died in 1997 of the so-called "flesh-eating bacteria," leaving me a widower and single parent to my seven-year-old daughter. Thanks for the flashback a**hole!
Thu Aug 31, 11:59:56 PM

Here's the asscrumb's response to him:

Major K: Yes and my uncle died from a four hour erection. You're a moron.

Real charming guy.

THAT is the kind of hateful filth I see all the time on these moonbat sites--wishing harm upon and celebrating tragedy that befalls other AMERICANS. Just like the cackling when Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig were kidnapped--because they work for Fox News! WTF! And of course, the infamous "Screw 'em."

For those above who keep throwing around Ann Coulter's name: I've seen far, FAR more people on the right distancing themselves from her since she started going over the line (i.e. with the Lincoln Chaffee crap) than I've seen defending her remarks. But you need to remember: she's just one person, but the left is FULL of bomb-throwing extremists, from blog commenters to nationally syndicated columnists and radio and TV commentators. It's pathetic.

Beth-Alexander McC... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Beth-

Alexander McClure right here at Politics Wizbang was one of the first to take her to task.

Oy!-another point that is o... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Oy!-another point that is often forgotten is National Review fired her.

I hate to chime into an ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I hate to chime into an insult fest, but Mantis, Nazis were not right-wing and neither is/was fascism, though the site you linked to clearly believes both are and were.

Spare me the fascism/Nazis aren't right wing garbage. I've heard this time and again from either very ignorant-types who believe that the word socialist in National Socialist means that the Nazis were left-wing, or from people willfully dissembling history because they think the fact that fascism is the extreme far right reflects badly on the right-wing. Granted that fascism is on the statist part of the right as opposed to the libertarian, but it's still the right.

If you look at the history you will find that fascism arose as a response to liberalism and was virulently anti-communist (and yes, that includes that famous "socialist" Hitler). It was very critical of laissez-faire capitalism, but flatly rejected the concept of class struggle embraced the equally-disenchanted-with-capitalism communist left.

So, in essence, and put rather simply, liberalism was failing in Europe, communism was gaining ground as a further left response to that failure,
and fascism arose as an opposing, far-right response. Fascism is defined, in short, by its opposition to communism. And you think it isn't on the right? How about it's composition of nationalism, corporatism, and racial purity? Are those left-wing virtues?

Is your linking an effort of endorsement to the the beliefs on that particular post?

Sure, Dave Neiwert does a very good job detailing the activities of racists, separatists, and as he calls them, eliminationists, among us.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your precise argument is regarding Fascism and Nazism not falling on the right side of the political spectrum, but I am sure it's bunk. And considering this statement,

the entire premise of the Constitution which called for ulitmate authority to reside within state legistlators?

I can't say I expect much thought or knowledge behind it. You apparently read this,

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

to mean something very opposed to what it actually means. The powers delegated to the US come first, the States' second. Maybe you just worded it carelessly, but you seem to think the federal government has no powers over the States. I guess I should give you the benefit of the doubt, though, since you are correct about the ignored causes of the Civil War, even if you ignore some major ones yourself.

Let's agree on one thing... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Let's agree on one thing..our civil war was a military attempt by southern states to DESTROY the United State of America...

Technically, it was just them wanting to leave and to be left alone. They were wrong on virtually every issue --- but it was not the South attempting to destroy the Union. It was the South looking to simply be independent.

If you're looking for technicalities. The South didn't want to conquer the North.

Which is why calling it a "Civil War" is a misnomer, as it was not a battle for control of a government.

Robert E. Lee graduating from West Point and then leading an Army against the United States of America would be the same as a West Point Graduate becoming bin Laden's #1...

If that person was an Afghani national, maybe.

The only reason Lee didn't run the Union military is because he was a Virginian.

He was significantly more anti-slavery than the Union military leadership. McClellan would have fit in better with the Confederates than the Union.

but of course Ann (what about that adam's apple)
Coulter can a Headline of her latest article
"They Killed the Wrong Lincoln"
A headline that implies a sitting Senator of the United States should be shot?....oh yeah..it's a joke when Ann says it.

Seeing as how this site has bashed Ann more than a few times, I'm not sure how mentioning her is supposed to score any points for you.

As for the Adam's Apple --- technically, everybody (including every female) has one. It's just usually impossible to see on women. A small percentage of women do have them visible.

But, hey, continue on with that ignorance thing you do so well.

Spare me the fascism/Nazis aren't right wing garbage. I've heard this time and again from either very ignorant-types who believe that the word socialist in National Socialist means that the Nazis were left-wing, or from people willfully dissembling history because they think the fact that fascism is the extreme far right reflects badly on the right-wing. Granted that fascism is on the statist part of the right as opposed to the libertarian, but it's still the right.

Care to define the difference in government style of the Nazis and the Soviets?
-=Mike

...our civil war was a m... (Below threshold)
Beth:

...our civil war was a military attempt by southern states to DESTROY the United State of America...
Robert E. Lee graduating from West Point and then leading an Army against the United States of America would be the same as a West Point Graduate becoming bin Laden's #1...

Boy, you'd better think about going back to school to finish the 5th grade before you start spouting that kind of nonsense. You just glom onto that little pea-brained idea because you hate the South (redneck wingnuts, right? "Fuck the South" probably appeals to you too) so you're going to make it about Robert E. Lee now? Yeah, Lee was JUST LIKE bin Laden. (eyeroll) What. An. Idiot.

It's akin to those (ahem) who break Godwin's Law. Which, of course, was done in this thread. You silly moonbats destroy your own "arguments" (I'm taking liberties with the word here) every time you open your BDS-afflicted pieholes. LOL!

Yes, as usual the "tolerant... (Below threshold)
cate s.:

Yes, as usual the "tolerant lefties" show their true colors.
Robert E Lee was a great man who tried during the remaining years of his life to do all he could to help heal the wounds of the South while at the same time fearing for a while he would be swinging at the end of a rope.
I wouldn't expect hatefull Blue Staters to ever understand Lee or why even all these years later he's still one of the most respected military men our country ever had. The Yankees had very few who could hold a candle to him. To those in the South, their home state was their country. When Virginia left the Union, Lee followed. It's a mindset that perhaps those who are so hateful of the South can't understand. Sorry, I grew up in the North and will never live up there in that hateful society again.

Oh please, Mantis. To pret... (Below threshold)

Oh please, Mantis. To pretend fascism, much less nazism, is right wing is to call out on a blowhorn that your dumber than a sack of rocks. The very founder of fascism knew it was a left-wing ideology. You would do well to actually read his own statements.

"If you look at the history you will find that fascism arose as a response to liberalism and was virulently anti-communist . . ."

Only part of liberalism but it was liberalism as a culture and not an ideology. Fasciam was first and foremost a totalitarian state supported by control of business and, yes, socialism. While you may claim totalarianism is right-wing, though wrongly if you understand the policital ideologies, both control over business and socialism are hardly right-wing princicples, yet those were key principles to both facism and nazism. How convenient of you to cite Hitler was interested in socialism when Benito Mussolino stated "after socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage...."

If you were as knowledgeable about the political spectrum as you claim, you would know this particular line has much more in common with Leftist ideology than right-wing ideology. The evils of the extreme right are known, but they don't cross with this particular part of the political spectrum.

And you bring up the same stupid (I'm not saying you are dumb but your information certainly is) arguments to fascism; nationalism, corportate interests and racial supremecy. I'm tire of this debate, seriously, but because I don't want to come across as rude I'll go ahead and answer in short.

Nationalism - Nationalism, at its core, is a deep sense of pride for an idea, not a nation. But if we go with a nation then you still fail the test. Were the Soviets not filled with intense nationalism? Of course they were and I doubt you want to claim Communisim was right-wing, though you claim Fascism was so why not.

Corporate Interests - How funny that you mention this actually. In Fascism, companies are not owned by the government, the difference with Communism as a whole, but they are given a set of restrictions on how to operate. Do right-wingers really want restrictions upon corporations or is it left-wingers who claim Wal-Mart is evil? The answer proves your point wrong.

Racial Supremecy - No, that's Nazism, not fascism. There's a distinct difference and I suggest you look up that difference anywhere but Common Dreams.

Dave Neiwert does just what you do; he cherry-picks and incorrectly matches parts of fascism to suit his own ideological goals to slander your opposition. I spent a good hour on his site and it's complete nonsense that anyone with a reasoned mind could debunk. I suspect you could do the same as I don't think you are less than intelligent nor do intend to call you as such, but actually look at the weaknesses in his argument with how Fascism (becase that's the issue we're discussing here at least) is incompatible with what the right-wing ideology is. No government ring a bell?

Do you really believe the original Constitution was not intended to make states have the ultimate authority within those states? If you do, then I've got a bridge I'd love to sell you in Nevada. What do you believe the words "the united states of America" mean?

Seriously, Manits, I love to debate topics with knowledgeable people, but the only conclusion I can come to is that you have no clue what you're arguing. I've even intentionally left gaping holes in my argument for your response, yet you haven't seemed to find them.

I'll leave quoting your response:

"I've heard this time and again from either very ignorant-types who believe that the word socialist in National Socialist means that the Nazis were left-wing . . . "

Is this some sort of joke? What part of socialist state do you not get? Both Germany and Italy wanted and strived for one and it was the very basis of the founding of Fascism, yet you reject that one notion because you want to believe it's right-wing. Or do you suppose the great ideological struggle between Nazism and Communism was not how that generation knew it, as my late grandfather told me "two totalirian regimes against another," but rather how you and the blogger you linked to choose to describe it? Give the readers of this site better credit; they aren't that dumb.

And thank you for calling me ignorant. Heh

Nice sugarcoating of the de... (Below threshold)
914:

Nice sugarcoating of the dems real intentions Lorie..




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