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More Progress In Iraq -- Iraqi Takeover Of Armed Forces Scheduled For Tomorrow

Another sign of progress in Iraq will take place tomorrow. There will almost certainly be increased violence surrounding the event, but that happens everytime there is any positive development in the country. Hopefully, in spite of the terrorists' (and their supporters') best efforts, progress will continue to be made.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq will take control of its armed forces command on Thursday, a major step on its painful path toward independence and an essential move before international troops can eventually withdraw.

Despite the progress, there was more bloodshed with at least 36 people killed across the country in car bombs, mortar attacks and drive-by shootings. Police also found 29 bodies.

"This is such a huge, significant event that's about to occur tomorrow," U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said of the shift in the Iraqi command. "If you go back and you map out significant events that have occurred in this government's formation in taking control of the country, tomorrow is gigantic."

The highly anticipated ceremony, which will put the prime minister in direct control of the military, comes five days after it was originally scheduled. The government abruptly called off the original ceremony at the last minute.

The U.S. and the Iraqis did not publicly reveal many details of the disagreement, other than to say it was more procedural than substantive.

Caldwell said the handover was so important, it could not be rushed into.

"If there's even a question, if there's even a slightest misunderstanding, you would absolutely want to get that thoroughly resolved," he said.

Following the fall of Baghdad in April 2003, the U.S. disbanded what was left of the defeated Iraqi army. The U.S.-led coalition has been training and equipping the new Iraqi military, hoping it soon will be in a position to take over security for the entire country and allow foreign troops to return home.

But it is still unclear how fast this can be done.

Update: Jim Hoft has much more, along with graphics.


Comments (35)

There will almost certai... (Below threshold)
sean nyc/aa:

There will almost certainly be increased violence surrounding the event, but that happens everytime there is any positive development in the country.
Lorie

That's some impressive double-talk.

No doubletalk whatsoever. ... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

No doubletalk whatsoever. There can be progress made in one respect, Iraqis stepping up and taking control of their own armed forces, while at the same time, be increased violence -- at least temporarily. It has happened everytime there has been a significant event in Iraq.

Terrorists are not going to sit out the day to let the citizens of Iraq celebrate an accomplishment or a milestone. They are going to do everything within their power to divert media attention away from any good news in Iraq. They are quite good at media manipulation.

Iraqis taking control of their armed forces is an accomplishment. It is actually even one of the things those on the left have been demanding happen sooner. Are they now going to say that it is not an accomplishment? I guess we will find out.

This of course has everythi... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

This of course has everything to do with the Iraqi army's military readiness and nothing to do with Bush's impending impeachment if the elections go awry.

And isn't it good news too that the price of gas just so happens to be falling.....got to keep the contented fools fooled.....your such tools.

Maybe you haven't heard abo... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Maybe you haven't heard about it, but there is this thing called market forces and there has been some huge news on the gas front the past few days which has played a role in the lower prices.

I posted it earlier, but testing in the Gulf of Mexico shows evidence of the biggest new discovery of oil in a generation. But that couldn't have anything to do with it. Nor could the fact that prices always drop at the end of summer when demand is less. Nor could it be attributed to a much less eventful than expected hurrican season.

No, I guess in the world of the Democrat it is more conceivable that Karl Rove just pulled out his big gas price control machine. That makes so much more sense.

Doubletalk versus reality. ... (Below threshold)

Doubletalk versus reality. I am amazed at how those on the left focus solely on the negatives and ignore any and all progress as if it stands for nothing. Thanks for being the defeatist supporter of the terrorists that you guys are.

Muirgeo, true to form for someone on the left you completely show that you live in a bubble. You are right, it is all a big conspiracy to take pressure off of Bush in case the lunatic left gets power in the next Congress.

Had you bothered to get off the ranch and do the research you would see that there is progress as well as setbacks. The troops are adjusting and Iraqi’s are still signing up for the job despite the rampant attempts at undermining the effort by the people the left is rooting for. Iraqi nationalism is up and the country sees no future for Al Qaeda. Does that mean that everything is great? No, not by any stretch of the imagination.

I noticed you guys drop in here and there and spread your vitriolic comments without ever suggesting what you do if you were in charge. What is your plan or better yet what is the plan being offered by the leaders in the Democrat party?

Please don’t suggest you wouldn’t have gone into Iraq in the first place. That position would simply advocate that you are willing to turn a blind eye to the estimated 2 to 3 million people that Hussein had killed during his reign of terror (this includes women and children that he bussed to mass graves), the harboring of terrorists, paying terrorists to attack Israel, obvious attempts to destabilize the region, actively firing on US soldiers on a regular basis, and undermining the United States and the United Nations with the oil for food scandal. This is just for starters. We can see how turning our backs on the situation in the 90’s worked out so well for us.

So what again is your plan?

Well, Web, the Democrats se... (Below threshold)

Well, Web, the Democrats seem to have TWO plans for Iraq and the War on Terror, and they can't seem to work out their differences on them. Individual candidates will just take their pick and run on that plan, even though it may not eventually represent the Democratic consensus.

They are having a healthy debate over whether our policy should be "Cut and Run" or "Cut and Jog."

Both follow the same basic path - the difference is the speed. The strategy is: "Appease, retreat, blame Bush, appease, retreat, & etc." If they run into any difficulties they will lather frothily, rinse, and repeat a few more times.

I hope that is clear enough.

My plan;My plan wo... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

My plan;

My plan would be for every American citizen to sit down and watch the movie Why We Fight....then we'd go from there.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

Call me a liberal, troll, a terrorist supporter...but not only is Ike on my side so is Merle..

...think I'm blowing smoke?.....boys it ain't no joke.....I make twenty trips a year coast to coast....

http://www.merlehaggard.com/


Screw you all... I'm a patriot through and through.....bring em home......NOW!

Muriego you are no patriot.... (Below threshold)
F15C:

Muriego you are no patriot. I served with patriots and you are no patriot. Just declaring yourself a patriot in and of itself is telling. A true patriot has not need for self-aggrandizing behavior.

Funny you use the term 'tool'. Clearly, you are a tool of the anti-American left whether you know it or not. I strongly suspect you don't even realize it.

Your words and deeds define who and what you are. And what you are is anything but a patriot. You are a coward and while possibly not a traitor, that may be simply because you have not yet had a safe enough opportunity to do so.

"This of course has everything to do with the Iraqi army's military readiness and nothing to do with Bush's impending impeachment if the elections go awry.

And isn't it good news too that the price of gas just so happens to be falling."

Prove your assertions. Since you are so sure, it should be quite easy. You just know you are right, don't you? Your certainty is either due to incontrovertible evidence, or it's a side effect of your pathological hatred of Bush and Republicans.

If you don't show us the evidence to prove your otherwise baseless assertions, we'll have no choice but to assume the latter reason for your 'condition'.

"Prove your assertions. Sin... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

"Prove your assertions. Since you are so sure, it should be quite easy. You just know you are right, don't you? Your certainty is either due to incontrovertible evidence,...."

F15C,

Go to the recent Pentagon report;

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/international/20060901_military_report.pdf

Page 60

the map

Are they ready?

Lorie,Thanks so mu... (Below threshold)
Baggi:

Lorie,

Thanks so much for keeping us informed of the good news in Iraq!

Ive a pretty good feeling that someday soon we're going to be pulling out of Iraq with the job finished. Everyone is going to look around and say, "What the heck? How can we leave, isn't everything going to hell over there?"

And its going to be the few folks who read Wizbang and a couple of other sites that will have seen it coming. Everyone else will wonder how we could have "Won" when all they heard was a steady drumbeat of bad news for three years.

So thank you Lorie for keeping us all informed of the progress in Iraq. Keep up the good work!

"And isn't it good news too... (Below threshold)
andrew:

"And isn't it good news too that the price of gas just so happens to be falling.....got to keep the contented fools fooled.....your such tools."

It's called a bubble, it's deflating if not outright bursting. What kind of fanaticism is required to believe that the law of supply and demand is a Republican plot?

I can't let the oil remark ... (Below threshold)
comeonsense:

I can't let the oil remark go. I've run into a lot of people who are short sighted when it comes to lower oil prices during election time. If you go to GasBuddy.com and do a little research you would find that gas prices have a history (2003 to 2006) of lower cost starting in Aug and ending by January. And it happens every year, not just during the national election years.

Muirgeo, sit on the floor c... (Below threshold)

Muirgeo, sit on the floor cross-legged, touch your middle fingers to your thumbs and repeat over and over "Ohmmmm. I will not be a prisoner of my hate and disgust."

Blind allegiance to a faile... (Below threshold)
dr lava:

Blind allegiance to a failed policy and a failed president is the opposite of patriotism.

Most folks here are supporting this occupation. Young Americans are dying in a shithole of a country for nothing.

Do you people, for one second, believe that these servicemen, as Bush likes to say, are dying to protect our freedom?

The kid from the firehouse down the street got blown up in Iraq on Monday.

Are you people ever going to understand what is going on?

Blind hatred of a successfu... (Below threshold)

Blind hatred of a successful policy and a successful president is the opposite of patriotism.

Most folks here are supporting this liberation. Young Americans are fighting for the future of tens of millions of people who live in a place that some racists call a "shithole" and declare is "for nothing".

I can't believe how people can be so inhuman to simply discard the people of Iraq into a mental trashcan.

Are you people every going to give a shit about anyone buy yourself?

"Most folks here are suppor... (Below threshold)
groucho:

"Most folks here are supporting this liberation." Where? At your house? In your mind? When did it become a liberation? In 2002-03 who said we were going in to liberate anyone? When? Where? Never happened. Liberating Iraq and fighting for the future of 10 million people is just more revisionist BS brought to you by those who cooked up this whole trogic failure in the first place.

There are millions of people in this country whose futures are in need of saving. That should be where our energies go.

Go to the recent P... (Below threshold)
Go to the recent Pentagon report; http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/international/20060901_military_report.pdf Page 60 the map Are they ready?

Muirgeo, funny that you mention page 60 of that report. That page shows that of the 18 provinces only 2 are not ready to take over in part of the transfer. The other sections, as indicated in that report that you cherry picked negatives out of, show that there is a plan to transfer and it is fluid based on troop preparedness. You can also see that the report talks about continuing issues and how they are being addressed. Try reading the whole report.

When you are done with that report be sure to check out the CSIS assessment that came out this week. This is by no means an assessment that is partial to the U.S. military. The discussion goes well beyond the Pentagon report and talks about many aspects that were left out as well as the difference between quality and size of the troops. However it also discusses progress and what is needed to continue along that path.

Rather than read that report or the Pentagon one as a testament to failure why don’t you look beyond what you want to find and understand that the situation constantly requires adjustments and that is exactly what is happening. The approaches to clearing out the violence are being addressed as well as the escalation of violence in desperate attempts to counter that violence.

The point being is that you can't simply read one or 2 reports, cherry pick all the negatives out and then make a declaration of failure. Objectivity implies that you go beyond that.

Many things need to change on the ground in Iraq to make this successful. Specifically the rise in sectarian violence needs to be addressed. Rather than throw your hands up in the air and declare defeat a better option would be to adjust and overcome. This includes a certain sense of patriotism that goes beyond declaring that you are a patriot and then continuing on your merry path of self pity and woe.

Unfortunately many people have a stake in failure, the American left included. If you want to impeach President Bush because of your sides inability to get behind the plan and help in the war effort than have at it. That is the only plan the Democrats have had since this war began. At least you admitted this the impeachment part of this fact. You may as well come the rest of the way and admit that this is the only plan the left has.

" Voice or no voice, the pe... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

" Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

For those of you who like to play the "patriotism" card, F15C and his "ilk", that's a quote from Hermann Goering.

Iraq will take control o... (Below threshold)
sanssoucy:

Iraq will take control of its armed forces command on Thursday, a major step on its painful path toward independence and an essential move before international troops can eventually withdraw.
- Yahoo News

As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.
- George W. Bush

Uh, any of our guys "standing down" today?

Sorry, folks, but this is another case of a "major step" and "good news" that means precisely fuck-all in terms of actual American troops leaving the battle zone and coming back to their families.

It's meaningless.

SS

Hugh,For those... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Hugh,

    For those of you who like to play the "patriotism" card, F15C and his "ilk", that's a quote from Hermann Goering.

So I take it you're calling us Nazis?

What if the nation really was under threat of attack? Would it be Nazi-like to actually say that there is a threat and it must be dealt with?

Nazis believed the sky was blue. I also believe the sky is blue. Does that make me a Nazi? I believe that Hitler thought water is wet, I think water is wet, does that make me a Nazi? I remember that the Nazis also built roads. If I were in office, I might have to build roads ... would that make me a Nazi?

PS: It's really interesting how quickly the Left levels the accusation that their patriotism is being "questioned." Whether the issue is taxes, educational policy or judges, Lefties immediately shriek about their patriotism.

Hell, the first guy on this thread to bring up his patriotism was muirgeo (George Muir?).

It's interesting. Maybe all of us on the Right, including the Administration should immediately begin every single sentence with "While I am not questioning your/their patriotism ..."

Example?:
White House Press Briefing Room.

    TONY SNOW: Good morning. I would like to first of all assure you all that my saying good morning was not intended to question your patriotism. First question, please? David?

DAVID GREGORY: Why are you wearing a green tie?

TONY SNOW: I like green ties. And I would like to point out that my liking of green ties is not intended as a challenge to your patriotism. Next question?

I can't believe how people ... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

I can't believe how people can be so inhuman to simply discard the people of Iraq into a mental trashcan.

Are you people every going to give a shit about anyone buy yourself?

Posted by: Nicholas


ROTFLMA.....OFF.....yeah as soon as Super-Bush is done here in Iraq he'll be off to save Darfur....oh wait do they have oil.....only negros.....and African ones at that...never mind...looks like they have some pretty clothes though.

http://www.responsibilitytoprotect.org/themes/lang1/images/photos/darfur.jpg


Nicholas...you're such a concerned humanitarian.......

Martin:You missed ... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Martin:

You missed the point, which is not surprising re you and me. It is as absurd to label people who dissent as unpatriotic as was the quote from Goerring absurd. I don't call anyone a Nazi unless he wears a swastika.

I was not the one to play the "patriotism" card - it was , and almost always is, the right side of the page so to speak. If you can't admit that it is the right who plays that card I'd be surprised. In anticipation of your response, that is not to say the left doesn't play "cards" of its own and that those who do should be called on it.

Hugh

"Ohmmmm. I will not be a pr... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

"Ohmmmm. I will not be a prisoner of my hate and disgust."

Posted by: Oyster


OK I'll try, Ohmmmm. I will not be a prisoner of my hate and disgust.....Ohmmmm.......because Bush and Cheney will soon be cell mates......Ohmmmm...And Nancy Pelosi will be President......Ohmmmm...and then we will all gather together as Americans to support our new and honest and good and loved by all....President......Ohmmmm....Ohmmmm...Ohmmmm...
OOOH YEAHHHHHHH!!!.....SMOKIN!!!!......OhmmmmOhmmmm...

Hey...that WORKED....thanks Oyster...I feel better now.

If you want to impeach Pres... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

If you want to impeach President Bush.........You may as well come the rest of the way and admit that this is the only plan the left has.

Posted by: Webloggin


Yes and it's a great plan...step 1 only of course.....democracy and the rule of law needs to prevail.

Of course if you want law breakers and corporatist ruling your country you have at it too....but there's a lot of us Americans that are standing up....and we're NOT gonna let that happen too our country.....so I'll ask you to please step aside...my cuntry needs saving....either your with us or you're against US (We the People.....!!!!)

" Voice or no voice, the pe... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

" Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

For those of you who like to play the "patriotism" card, F15C and his "ilk", that's a quote from Hermann Goering.

Posted by: Hugh


Absolutely Hugh...that's their MO...actually not theirs just their handlers.

Uh, any of our guys "standi... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

Uh, any of our guys "standing down" today?

Sorry, folks, but this is another case of a "major step" and "good news" that means precisely fuck-all in terms of actual American troops leaving the battle zone and coming back to their families.

It's meaningless.

SS

Posted by: sanssouc


Yeah if standing down means building 12 bases on Iraqi soil and a Vatican size US Embassey..( built with non-Iraqi labor no less)...

we ain't goin
until the oils flowin.....
and it ain't flowin...
as long as the price per barrel is growin...
Bush be hoing...
Cheney snowin...
Rummy blowin....

..Jeez I should a been a rappa...

MuirgeoLet me fini... (Below threshold)

Muirgeo

Let me finish some of the steps you left out:

Step 2: Cut and Run, turn our backs on the people we are trying to help, prove to the world that the American left has no desire to stick to its word and help those who need help. Hand victory to the terrorists.

Step 3: Create another class of victims that need to rely on the government to wake up in the morning. Provide no path for success and punish those who succeed by confiscating their goods and distributing them among those who didn’t work for them.

Step 4: Shutdown Wal-Mart, Unionize every business and implement the French model of inefficiency on job security.

Step 5: Revise history a bit more to make it seem like the policies of the Clinton administration succeeded.

Step 6: Turn our backs on our allies, specifically Israel. This of course will solve all the worlds’ problems and the Islamic quest to reinstate the Caliphate will simply go away; everyone will be happy, another democracy will fail and the world will have one less border to worry about.

Step 7: More white guilt. Can’t have enough of the past when it comes to moving forward.

Step 8: Revisit steps 2 through 7

Step 9: Hugo Chavez for President.

And on and on and on.

Step 2....we've pretty much... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

Step 2....we've pretty much already done that with our greed getting in the way of proper reconstruction....

Step 3...poverty levels are increasing ,, middle class wages are stagnant, and college grads starting salaries and benifits are down while their debt is up, personal savings our in the negative range and the housing bubble will bankrupt many....we could be on our way to the next Republican Depression.

Step 4 ....no just take away the idea that corporations are people...

Step 5
Revise this;
http://www.academycomputerservice.com/economics/charts.htm

and add your own graph for military dead and wounded

Step 6
Our actions have made Israel less safe and peace further away

Step 7
Yes ..defianatly...or maybe a universal draft with absolutely NO F'ing exemptions....including age...no exemptions

Step 8
go ahead...revisit

Step 9
We already have millions flowing to over throw this democracy...you happy with that?


Muirgo and Hugh have nothin... (Below threshold)

Muirgo and Hugh have nothing to offer but to call people who disagree with them Nazis. They are ignorant of history. Bush and members of his administration are not Nazis and don't act like Nazis. These two wouldn't know a Nazi if one goose-stepped up to them and slapped them.

The problem with American education is that History classes stop sometime between the Civil War and the great depression. The lessons of WWII aren't learned.

VW

It is as absurd to labe... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:
    It is as absurd to label people who dissent as unpatriotic ...

Oh please!

Dissent is value neutral. One can be patriotic in dissent and unpatriotic in dissent. Contrary to the Leftist highly inaccurate paraphrasing of Thomas Jefferson, dissent is not the highest form of patriotism - supporting the right to dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

Personally, I believe that many people on the Right (and Left - I've got mountains of quotes) do label some things (or people) as being unpatriotic. Some are ... some are not. But it is their right to do so and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

    I was not the one to play the "patriotism" card - it was , and almost always is, the right side of the page so to speak.

I never said you did, Hugh. I said it was that great fount of asininity, muirgeo who first brought it up in this thread. And, I've noticed that, in almost every single thread he has participated in, he has been the first to bring it up.

In fact, considering that not a single member of the Bush Administration has outright questioned the patriotism of a single Democrat, while the opposite is true, I'm not so sure you're on that much solid ground here.

Let's stay on topic, this time, huh?

..."dissent is not the high... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

..."dissent is not the highest form of patriotism - supporting the right to dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

Martin

And Martin deoes this administration support that????


“Free-Speech Zone”

The administration quarantines dissent.

http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html

In fact, considering that n... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

In fact, considering that not a single member of the Bush Administration has outright questioned the patriotism of a single Democrat, while the opposite is true, I'm not so sure you're on that much solid ground here.

Let's stay on topic, this time, huh?

Posted by: Martin A. Knight

Martin,


Talk of asininity! You're an out right intellectually dishonest person....did I say intellectually?...scratch that.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/05/olbermanns-latest-special-comment-targets-bush-“have-you-no-sense-of-decency-sir”/

Martin:Criticism i... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Martin:

Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government.
~Sen. Robert Taft, (R) Ohio

Martin, I take you as a studious and serious (though somewhat misguided) advocate of your point of view. But to say : " In fact, considering that not a single member of the Bush Administration has outright questioned the patriotism of a single Democrat..." is a surprise. Now, granted perhaps those exact words to an individual democrat have never been used. But how about this for an example:

December 2001: In response to Democratic plans to question parts of the USA Patriot Act during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, John Ashcroft suggests that people who disagree with the administration's anti-terrorism policies are on the side of the terrorists. "To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."

Now if that is not questioning patriotism I don't know what is. That particular quote is only one of more than I can count that, at a minimum, try to create an inference that if one dissents or disagrees you are unpatriotic.

"Thanks so much for keeping... (Below threshold)

"Thanks so much for keeping us informed of the good news in Iraq!"

Huh! Que in "Twilight Zone" music here. GOOD NEWS IN IRAQ? Baggi, please pass me some of that good Jamaican collie weed you are smoking :)

"I can't believe how people can be so inhuman to simply discard the people of Iraq into a mental trashcan"

Yeah you are right Nicholas, and I bet those people in Darfur, and the Congo, aren't really people after all huh. Oh, that's right, there is no oil in those places.

Give me a f$#@^%ng break, like republicans all of a sudden started caring about people of other countries. If your frat boy wasn't leading this war, you, and every other right wing wack job on this site would be all for instant withdrawal. Can you imagine if Clinton had invaded Iraq? It would be none stop from FAUX news and the people of that ilk for us to get out.

But hey, this is what makes America great. You guys on the right hold on to your political beliefs no matter what, and the people on the left do the same thing. And we actually get to vote who we want to put in power, and it's usually, (at least most of the time) a fair way to do things.

Hugh ...Criticism... (Below threshold)
Martin A. Knight:

Hugh ...

    Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government. ~ Sen. Robert Taft, (R) Ohio

I think you're, once again, missing the point. I am not aware of any Conservative complaining about the fact that the Left disagrees with the President. It is your right to do so and you should exercise it when and where you see fit.

But that does not mean that your views have any extra or more value than others because they happen to be dissenting views. Stupid, dishonest, illogical and ignorant dissenting arguments are no less stupid, dishonest, illogical or ignorant even if they are dissenting arguments. An unpatriotic argument remains unpatriotic whether it be dissenting or not.

Capiche?

    To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil.

I read this and came to a different conclusion. What exactly is there in this to object to? Were any of the Democrats one of those people who: "... pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens ... who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty?"

Is there any quote from a Republican about a Democrat that matches for pure explicit denial of one's patriotism this one:

    John Ashcroft is not a patriot ... - Howard Dean

Let's be clear here; the Left pushes the narrative that their patriotism is always under challenge by constantly characterizing any and all criticism of any of their views, whether it be on taxes, educational policy, environmental standards, etc. as challenging their patriotism. The truth is, they do it as much as and often even more than Republicans do.

PS:

muirgeo,

You really are not worth my time.




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