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Where is Airforce Major Jill Metzger? (Discussion Continued)

Note: This post is now closed to new comments. The Metzger discussion will continue in our new Wizbang Forum, where there is a thread devoted to Metzger. Registration is required to post on our new vBulliten powered forums. We're fairly certain that the new forum system will be more practical for this type of extended discussion...


In the coming weeks we'll updated to look of the forums to more closely match the new Wizbang design.


Comments (709)

Deb G: This isn't an attac... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Deb G: This isn't an attack... just an observation.

I don't think you are targeted because you are female. I don't think anyone is jealous of you either but by always using that as your defense coupled with some form of "LOL.... Hahahahaha, ROFLMAO, etc" kind of paints a bullseye on you.

Personally, I've enjoyed reading your posts which discuss JM but I feel the DCA posts are the same tactic for each attack... "break right, chaff chaff, flare flare". Its now become a predictable response that probably entertains your provokers.

If you really want the folks to back off then don't answer absurd attacks... or rather change tactics.

Just an observation.

From Deb G. on Oct 3 to Sic... (Below threshold)
DM:

From Deb G. on Oct 3 to Sickening "show me ONE post of mine which states that someone else is WRONG - yup, didn't think so, there are NONE LOL......"

From Deb G. later on Oct 3 to Jethro "fun again, your above theories on me are WRONG WRONG WRONG"

Here is a link stating she ... (Below threshold)
JHater:

Here is a link stating she is going before a grand jury today cause she failed a lie detector

http://mms.tveyes.com/Transcript.asp?StationID=1335&DateTime=10%2F03%2F06+05%3A27%3A55&Term=Air+Force&PlayClip=TRUE

Reading an article that whe... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Reading an article that when Jill went missing, Josh did not want to go over there and help them find his wife. I can't help but wonder if he knew something. Article states they had a talk about "family matters" before she went shopping. I would think a husband would jump to go look for his wife especially being OSI.

Still trying to find out if they went on their honeymoon. Anyone know???

The AFOSI was not allowe... (Below threshold)
Johca:

The AFOSI was not allowed to conduct a thorough investigation or debrief Jill (nor were local Kyrgyz officials) because they were preempted by the State Department.
Author: Buster

Most interesting as the Department of the Air Force cannot abandon or avoid its responsibility of defining and sustaining basic roles and rules of conduct without the potential collapse of discipline among the uniformed members of its ranks.

The State Department may have control of investigating the event and all its situations and circumstances, but the Department of the Air Force has jurisdiction of determining responsibility and accountability for deeds done by its military members. The purpose of military law (which is codified by Congress) is to promote justice, to assist in maintaining good order and discipline in the armed forces, to promote efficiency and effectiveness in the military establishment, and thereby to strengthen the national security of the United States. While Senior and Top Air Force leaders may at this time be frustrated to act, the time to perform their duties pertinent to military law will eventually arrive and I'm sure members of the OSI will get to do a few interviews and review any and all of the investigation done by the State Department. Her lawyer's certainly will when the judicial process begins to determine distinctions between intentional and unintentional behavior, degrees of culpability, and assignments of punishment.

Eventually the Department of the Air Force will need to decide if Major Metzger should be held responsible for any of her behaviors and actions and this can not merely be asserted, it must be reasonably shown why the should and shouldn't decisions were made.

Perhaps OSI and Senior Air Force leadership are frustrated by the State Department having lead investigative control in the matter of Major Metzger's disappearance and reappearance but the Air Force will have access to what is needed to unravel this specific mystery when it comes time to assign blame or praise for behavior and actions and determine the appropriate consequences.

Read an article today which... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Read an article today which has military stating Josh specifically did not want to go to help search for his wife. Being OSI in the military, you would think he would want to. He stated he was on the phone with Jill before going shopping and they talked about "family matters" - can't help but think Josh knew his wife was not abducted.....patiently waiting for someone to say something...

Yippee! I get to be the fi... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Yippee! I get to be the first of the next 1,400!

Some marginally related new... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Some marginally related news from http://enews.ferghana.ru/
Ombudsman suggests a transfer of the US AF Base from Bishkek to Osh
04.10.2006 10:34 msk

Kyrgyz Ombudsman Tursunbai Bakir uulu suggests a transfer of the Gansi AF Base from the Bishkek airport Manas to Osh.

Bakir uulu maintains that the international coalition established the AF base in Kyrgyzstan to fight terrorism in Afghanistan, and Osh is much closer to this country than Bishkek. The ombudsman also believes that it should be done because AF base servicemen enjoy diplomatic immunity and get off the hook whenever something untoward happens. Substantiating the suggestion, Bakir uulu referred to the recent collision of a civilian board and an aircraft in Manas.

The ombudsman claims that he is bombarded with complaints from the Kyrgyz employed on the base - women battered by officers of the US Army and men fired despite the demands of the Labor Code of Kyrgyzstan. Numerous complaints are made by the locals who are affected by spillage of aviation fuel from US aircraft.

Bakir uulu appealed to Marat Sultanov, Chairman of the Jogorku Kenesh [national parliament], to revise the Gansi AF Base treaty with the international counter-terrorism coalition.

Buster,I apologize... (Below threshold)
Buster2:

Buster,

I apologize for stomping on your username...that was not my intent, but I needed a login, and that sprang to mind. I was late to the fight, but just couldn't stand the idiocy any more....

Was posted in <a hre... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Was posted in
http://op-for.com/2006/09/pray_for_maj_metzger.html blog.

I've been stationed and Manas Air Base and have been to the Tsum Market countless times. The Kyrgyz people are a decent people and conditions are safe. We have a huge American ExPat community there. Ok, here's what happened. Our good Major had a fling behind her husband's back while assigned to Manas and got knocked up. She wanted to have an abortion before she returned home. She sought the help of a Manas Air Base Third Country National (TCN) employee thinking she could undergo a same day outpatient abortion. It didn't happen as planned. She experienced complications. The doctor wouldn't release her. She panicked and faked her abduction once she realized she wouldn't make Col Reese's stupidly imposed 22:00 hour curfew. That's what happened. Period. She's embarrased her nation and in the process, she has strained relations with the American Embassy in Bishkek and the Kyrgyz Ministry of Interior. Next time I go to Kyrgyzstan I'll be scorned by the local population and the Ministry officials and businessmen with whom I must interact. Thanks Jill Metzger. If the Air Force has any sense of integrity and honor, they'll throw the UCMJ book at her - Adultery, Conduct unbecoming, Unauthorized Absence. Her career is over. What a dumbass. No wonder the Air Force made her a Personnel Officer. She might be a champion marathoner, but she can't run away from this idiotic episode.

Lt Col "In the Know" O · October 4, 2006 07:47 PM

DM: Saying Jethro was WRON... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: Saying Jethro was WRONG WRONG WRONG was meant that he/she was WRONG about ME ME ME. I meant I have NEVER posted that someone's theory about Jill Metzger has ever been WRONG. I respect what others have to say, whether it be for or against her and I have never said anyone's theories or opinions have ever been wrong. Saying to Jeth about being wrong about me was totally different. He was wrong, about me, and I am not the one here to be proven right or wrong. So, yes, I do get attacked for rather absurd writings - the same writings others do. I can say someone is wrong about me becauase I know me, however, I have no right, no business and no solid facts to say anyone is wrong about Jill Metzger's situation.

IKJ: I put LOL, ROFL, et a... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: I put LOL, ROFL, et al because I do truly think it is FUNNY and SILLY that some attack me the way they do. I really do. I take no offense to anything here, just typing away some wasted minutes and finger power replying to some. I appreciate your observation, however, don't really need one. I don't care why others attack me or anyone, just find it baffling and curious. Not a big deal really. Pointless to do it.

Buster2: LOL Was wonderin... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Buster2: LOL Was wondering who you were - thanks for the cover. You can come into our foxhole anytime!

Kuba: Again, I commend your passion on this situation and finding that piece of info! I have to wonder if anyone who had something to do with her disappearance will eventually talk about it.

Kuba/ JHater,Nice ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Kuba/ JHater,

Nice find: You know, sometimes the most obvious theory REALLY IS the correct one.

It looks as if the UCMJ process has begun.

Clarification: I'm not int... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Clarification: I'm not intending to say that the posts above are the smoking gun we've been looking for. My bad for striking the gavel of conclusion.

Let the conspiracy theories continue!

Question to those with an A... (Below threshold)
DM:

Question to those with an Air Force Background - even if Josh had wanted to go to Kyrgyzstan to search for Jill, would the Air Force have allowed this?

It's been suggested that Josh knew something the rest of us didn't during Jill's disappearance. Personally I don't think that Josh knew anything more about his wife than we did at the time. In his interview with the Early Show he said ---
"We're going to stay here," he said. "I believe that my place is here with my family. ... I believe in our government to get things done to solve this case. I think there's about 20 highly skilled, highly trained, experienced agents over there right now rattling cages and looking for her. I believe that my efforts here would be better served honoring Jill's memory." I was particularly struck by that last line when I first saw the interview because it sounds like he thinks she is dead. In such a stressful situation, while she was missing it may have been easier to think she was dead than to think about all the horrible possibilities if she were alive, but I think this line shows that he did NOT know anything.

DM: I agree. That last li... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: I agree. That last line leads one to believe he thought she was dead. You would have to think too that if Josh KNEW she might have done something, he probably would have talked in order to avoid the hefty search for her....

still sticking with the abortion theory....

DM-The AF would NO... (Below threshold)
ikj:

DM-

The AF would NOT allow Josh to go to K-stan if he wanted to (for several reasons).

I agree w/ you. At the time, I don't believe he knew anything.

Well... I see people have f... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Well... I see people have found their way to the new conference room.. I'm glad you could all make it.

Put your coffee cups down.. time for a poll.. ahhh.. forget it! Let's just get right down to business.

So... in order of importance:

a...what do you THINK about the Grand Jury deal-ee-o?

b...and what's this I hear about a failed lie detector test?

and.... finally

c...what are the implications of what Ombudsman Tursunbai Bakir uulu had to say? (I've met this guy, btw, sat down to a face-2-face with him) [for Kuba: his office is on the 2nd floor of the bldg right across from the Militia station on Moskowskaya]

Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Glad to see you back! Always smile reading your posts....

:-)

Wiz:a. either the ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Wiz:

a. either the wizbang posters' letter writing campaign worked (no, not really) or the AF was doing a thorogh and fair investigation and the time has now come such a "deal-ee-o". (yes, that's it)

b. standard ops for AFOSI... maybe Josh did it.

c. I think its just normal PR opportunity for local gov't. US presence in Bishkek (in my opinion) has done a lot more good than harm (at least economically). I believe that US- K-Stan relations have grown and remained stable enough that these few "hiccups" will not have a lasting affect... but sillier things have happened.

I FEEL... like having a beer.

WizBanger - Wanted to tell ... (Below threshold)
DM:

WizBanger - Wanted to tell you that I'm not avoiding responding to your recent long post to me, just taking some time to THINK about it.

Deb--------You loo... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Deb--------

You loooook great today!!! Gotta say, gurl, if I were 50 years younger... you'd be taking me to kindergarden.. HA!!!

Crap... where's the spell c... (Below threshold)
ikj:

Crap... where's the spell checker? Sorry about that.

BTW: for the 30,000 instances it was used on the previous comment board... the word is "MOOT"... not "MUTE".

ahhh forget it... its a mute point anyway.... no, moot.

Wiz: LOL A. I am not as ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: LOL A. I am not as young as you think B. I picture you an older retired Vietnam Vet - could be wrong on that as I don't know you or have all your info. C. Your wife would be really upset with me and I'm not into that! However, I love your posts and your character and personality - a welcome and refreshing visual....

and don't you ever leave my foxhole!!!

ikj: that was funny. You ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ikj: that was funny. You ok today? little things seem to be bothering you so I am passing you that beer you wanted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

a bit curious about the "my bad" you used...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ah, forget it

Deb:actually, I'm ... (Below threshold)
ikj:

Deb:

actually, I'm bit behing the LD Max curve... aka power curve. Broke my arm last night and am floating on cloud percocet. Thanks for the beer offer but my wife already put a big stop to that.

I put in the "My bad" because in my post prior to that, it read as if I had concluded the truth of the stories based on Kuba and JHater's posts. (Although that is indeed what I think happened).

ikj: OUCH! Well then two ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ikj: OUCH! Well then two beers for you - nothing wrong with cyber beer! Unless you can emotionally think yourself to slobberish drunkeness from it!

I think that is what happened too. Logical enough...

I know I have asked this before, but does anyone know if Jill went on her honeymoon? I don't think she did...Af might not have allowed that given the investigation they are doing.

I think my anonymous lurker... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

I think my anonymous lurker friend said that she was not on leave (ie no honeymoon mon)... I'm not certain that is exactly what I heard though.

Anonymous lurker friend? are you there?

OK... gotta go for tonight.... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

OK... gotta go for tonight. I just told my wife that I've got a "rocket in my pocket" and I'm HOPING she'll enter into a trance.

awww who am I fooling... I'll be alseep before my head hits the pillow.

IKJ: :-) maybe she will f... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: :-) maybe she will follow you into the bedroom, BE CAREFUL, those pocket induced trances will eventually lead to you getting your ars kicked before she escapes!!

ain't that the truth! c'ya... (Below threshold)
ikj:

ain't that the truth! c'ya later

DM........Don't wo... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

DM........

Don't worry about the response.. I'm not here to tell you 'what' to think. You, and you alone, have to determine that.

But, don't be afraid to hold your ground. This is not a life and death situation here. We, or at least I, gather here to discuss this event. So far I haven't had to back off anything that I have laid out. Lucky? Maybe... but my luck started when I looked at what happened, what was reported, and what I knew... and started the thinking process.

Some people on another forum came right out and told me that I was full of crap.. that was almost a month ago. I'll be paying a 'visit' there again. Not so much to say 'I told you so', but to see where they are in their thinking now.

Wiz: I agree with you. Ma... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: I agree with you. Many of us were bashed hard for our thoughts on Metzger's situation and the fact we were posting anything negative at all in regards to not believing her story. I too wonder what they think now. I'm not one to say "I told you so", but it sounds like that might be exactly what I will say and so will many others.....will be interesting. Would really just like to see the truth come out and reprimand made. We would never allow other military to get away with something like this. Many people, integrity and ethnicity were put on the line because of this reported kidnapping....punishment is deserved here so it does NOT happen again.

I'm just patiently waiting for "the truth"...

Considering the enlarging d... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Considering the enlarging debate on who knew what and who knew when of Florida Rep. Mark Foley, it would be most interesting what collateral inquiries into Major Metzger's immediate chain-of-command and most specifically those who were her Rater's on her OPR's would reveal. Especially if it is revealed the pattern of misbehavior existed at previous assignments and was not addressed appropriately by the chain-of-command.

The most favored scenario for cause of disappearance and 4-day reappearance is pregnancy and need to permanently conceal it by having an abortion. While a mother cannot be prosecuted under the UCMJ for deciding to have an abortion and having an abortion; there is in the UCMJ, Article 134-Self injury without intent to avoid service. Article 134 requires that the offense was committed (in time of
war) (in a hostile fire pay zone). This offense is characterized by intentional self-injury under such circumstances as prejudice good order and discipline or discredit the armed forces. It is not required that the accused be unable to perform duties, or that the accused actually be absent from his or her place of duty as a result of the injury.

This article opens up a very large catch-22 for the Department of Defense and it will be most interesting to see if the Air Force considers prosecuting Major Metzger under this article or avoids doing so as if it is the plaque. This article and what is done about it in this situation will definitely determine if Air Force leadership has integrity and moral courage.

Certain offenses in a time-of-war carry greater maximum punishments to include death and AWOL is one such offence carrying a maximum punishment of death. A state of war need not be declared by Congress, nor is a formal declaration required. A war situation can result from the fact our armed forces are engaged in actual combat against an organized armed enemy. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq conducting the Global Was on Terrorism and actual combat against an organized enemy is happening.

It is clear Major Metzger was deployed to a forward location in Kyrgyzstan supporting combat operations in Afghanistan and that the location was within the combat command Area of Responsibility (AOR) and that she was being paid imminent danger pay for providing direct support to the Afghanistan combat zone and eligible for combat zone tax relief. I would say in my opinion Article 134-Self Injury without intent to avoid service is an appropriate article and that time-of-war needs to be fully explored by the court in determining the appropriate punishments.

Appropriate UCMJ articles appear to be:

Article 86 Unauthorized Absence

Article 92 Failure to Obey Order or Regulation

Article 107 False Official Statements

Article 133 Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer and a Gentleman

Article 134 Adultery

Article 134 False Swearing

Article 134 Fraternization

Article 134 Self Injury without intent to avoid service

Article 134 Testify: Wrongful Refusal

Johca: Excellent info! We... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Johca: Excellent info! Well done. Now, let's see if they use it. The words integrity and courage stuck out clearly - WHO will have the integrity and courage to insist on the punishment....stay tuned.

WizBanger Poster -- any mor... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

WizBanger Poster -- any more thoughts/info on the base relocation? Interesting that you've met the ombudsman. Is he one of the ones calling for the capital to also be relocated to Osh?

ijosha---------Any... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Blogger:

ijosha---------

Anyone who has experienced military 'residents' in their town or city knows that one ends up with a two-headed monster at the door.

First, it's nice to have a complex that is going to provide additional jobs for people and a revenue cow for local businesses. But, secondly, military are military..and their money has to be spent somewhere. That normally ends up at the local bars... not the local libraries. I suppose, it would be the best of both worlds if that were the case. Historically, it has proven to be a detriment for a community.

So, despite the good idea of moving it to Osh which is in the southern part of the Republic, it's not going to happen! They like the money where it's at. Furthermore, the US military would be very much opposed to it. LOTs of money has been, and is being, invested into Ganci.. Who knows, one day that will be the Military Retirement capital of the world. PX/BX, Hospital, Commisary, High School, the works... The Ramstein AFB of Central Asia!!!

As to moving the Capital from Bishkek to Osh.. That was not his idea, and it really doesn't matter whose idea it was.. it's not going to grow wings and fly. The primary reason being that it would put them just that much closer to the radicals. I'm not sure if you have read my posts about the place... but, the people of Bishkek are nice people. Also, the political bent in Osh doesn't necessarily fit in with the popular agenda in the North. WON'T HAPPEN!

Well, I am SHOCKED at the i... (Below threshold)
VR:

Well, I am SHOCKED at the information above about Jill failing a polygraph, if in fact it's true. Not shocked that she failed, but SHOCKED that she apparently has CONTINUED to think she can get away with lying. Surely she must realize that there are way too many people involved now-- witnesses, police, investigators, husband-- that she can't continue to lie her way out of trouble. A panicky lie in a panicky situation I can imagine; but persistence in that lie? I can't imagine. I would have thought she'd have 'fessed up to everything by the time she got to Germany. I mean, if the pregnancy situation was true, that would have been apparent to everyone involved. Does that mean she said, "Well yeah, I'm pregnant, but that doesn't have anything to do with my kidnapping?" or did she say "Well yeah, I did go ahead and get an abortion, but THEN I got kidnapped?"
It will be very interesting.
How much will the public be able to access a grand jury hearing?

VR:Apparently, she... (Below threshold)
Gh:

VR:

Apparently, she's still lying to at least her husband as well. She was for sure, when we saw the news article about their phone conversation.

He askd her if she was hurt and she replied that I was told not to talk about that.

I think you guys really did a lot to keep this in the public eye. The major media concerns are still not covering it.

Johca: Absolutely agree wit... (Below threshold)
Buster:

Johca: Absolutely agree with your statement above with regard to the investigation, legal proceedings, and discovery process by her defense counsel. I thought it was a tad odd when it was first relayed to me but I'll assume it was/is due to the potential for political fallout. I'm sure more hardened facts will begin to filter out in the not too distant future.
I would also like to apologize for my barbs, posted much earlier, with regard to SERE. I'd been through the AF course years ago and am actually looking at having to attend an additional course in Brunswick. Not something I'm looking forward to at this point in my career.

Buster2: No worries and welcome to the discussion. It's an old nickname from when I was a little kid and had a little Dutch-boy hair-don't.

Gh---------So, you... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Gh---------

So, you really think this little outpost in cyberspace, manned by a contingent of outcast renegades was capable of such a feat????

Wonders never cease!!!

As a long time lurker, who'... (Below threshold)
Gh:

As a long time lurker, who's a goldbricker and uses work time and assets to follow this blog and proud of it.

My response would be YES!!!!

Hey the only place to get any news real, supposed or just plain made up was here.

Gh...In that case,... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Gh...

In that case, I suggest you change you moniker to GoldBricker.. That would be more befitting a member of this organization.

Welcome to the unit... pull up a chair, have a beer or coffee, grab your favorite cigar out of that box in the corner... and read the your packet.

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it....

GoldBricker....I f... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

GoldBricker....

I failed to mention that I admire your character.. Despite the ridicule and harrassment you have opened yourself up to, you were honest. Thanks!!

Now, let's get back to work... ahhmmm.. back to what we were doing.

Talking to an AF friend who... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Talking to an AF friend who said there are some folks at Manas who know what happened to Jill. He did not have any info., however, has heard this. Of course, it could all be rumor, however, one would have to think that if someone knows at Manas exactly what happened and the truth perhaps eventually it will come out....

OOOOHhhhh.. NOW I GET IT!!!... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

OOOOHhhhh.. NOW I GET IT!!!

Deb G.. now I know...

dhall.. this person is a Marine!!!!

You know from dhall of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli..

So, if I follow this correctly.. there's got to be a code in here some where........

Wiz: I love you man!... (Below threshold)

Wiz: I love you man!

Excuse me for being off topic, but I wonder if the following initials who are regulars to this site are really the following people??

GH: Goldie Hawn is that you???

VR: Valerie Roberts is that you???

Julie: Oh wow, Julie Andrews. Wait, thought she was dead.

Buster: Buster Brown, nice to see you again.

I remember a Ron in here too, must be Ron Howard!!!!! I think he was a Captain in the Army at Bragg but is a Major now....

Don:

You know Metzger really sho... (Below threshold)
Gh:

You know Metzger really should have sold the movie and book rights to this. I wonder who would play her. Jennie Garth maybe?

This sounds like a Sunday CBS movie doesn't it?

Strange feeling that info. ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Strange feeling that info. on Metzger is coming soon....very curious....this should be a book, I agree....

Did anybody ever find out i... (Below threshold)
Gh:

Did anybody ever find out if Metzger went on her honeymoon? Her husband must be climbing the walls.

I was told Jill did not go ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

I was told Jill did not go on her honeymoon. Hearsay, third party, not completely factual so I myself don't know for sure....info. coming from AF Officer.

Kuba: Where are you?? You... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba: Where are you?? You usually bring in some great updates....patiently waiting....

Just a reminderIts... (Below threshold)
pete:

Just a reminder

Its nearing the holy time of "Rama-Hooters". A sacred period when those of my "Order" assemble for the ceremonial and time honored sacrifice of the grey matter. Ultimately, we ascend to a "TRANCE LIKE" state

----with pocket bombs-------

as we pay homage to our pagan deity.

Our spiritual hostess's guide us through this time in their owlish robes, to ensure we finish the ritual refreshed and and cleansed of sins as we prepare to move forward in life with a sense of decadence and indulgence.

Have a great weekend,

Pete

Ooophs,I meant "wi... (Below threshold)
pete:

Ooophs,

I meant "without pocket bombs" in my last post.

sorry for the typo.

Pete

pete: lol Was to... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

pete: lol

Was told by AF friend about 10 minutes ago that we should be hearing more about the Metzger situation within the next week....patiently waiting.

Disclaimer: Anything being typed here is hearsay and I have no valid facts to prove this will happen, just hearing it. Now, regarding the actual theories, well, that is a personal opinion and not solid either, but given all the pieces of the puzzle, it is starting to fit together really nicely, thus, will stick to abortion theory....

So... does Kim Jong Il have... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

So... does Kim Jong Il have bomb in his pocket or is he just lookin' for some attention?

I think he had a hard time getting good authentic Bavarian beer and brauts for Oktoberfest this year and is treatening a nuclear test... unless, say a certain "shipment" arrives from Munich?

Guesses?

Happy Chusok!

My search skills must be in... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

My search skills must be in need of some fine tuning, because I keep on coming up with '0' current hits for Jill Metzger in the NEWS department.

IKJ........How's t... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

IKJ........

How's the arm?

A little painful...thanks f... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

A little painful...thanks for asking. Doc says it's a "radial head fracture". Tons of fun!

Deb-G,Thanks, I am... (Below threshold)
pete:

Deb-G,

Thanks, I am glad you understand that levity is sometimes the best COA in these trying times.

Pete

My search skills must be... (Below threshold)
Johca:

My search skills must be in need of some fine tuning, because I keep on coming up with '0' current hits for Jill Metzger in the NEWS department.

Posted by: WizBanger Poster Mine too

However, I'm not surprised at all and all though I'm very curious to know what truly happened it is better that the truth if what happen be made public as accurate and complete as possible rather than inaccurate and incomplete. I can wait as I never expected much due to the complexity and potential collateral political and social discussion it can generate until mid-October anyway.

Definitely the worst medical condition to seek non-military provided medical treatment at the wrong time and wrong place and then choosing a fraudulent (criminally deceitful hoax) means against the U.S. Government to conceal it. I really don't think many grasp all the very significant legal complexities of this incident.

Johca: I agree. This, I b... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Johca: I agree. This, I believe, will be BIG... it may or may not be big news but I'm thinking the US Gov't vs. Maj Jill Metzger will be huge.

Pete:"COA".... spo... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Pete:

"COA".... spoken like a true staff officer!

Johca ------------... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Johca ------------

I really don't think many grasp all the very significant legal complexities of this incident.
---------------------------------

That's the problem with many of the "I'm Jill's Fan Club" posters who come in here and want to do their honor, valor, above reproach, skit for Major Metzger.

If we can go with the illicit pregnancy thread.. the cheer leading squad has a 'civilian' mindset which would allow for a lapse in moral character and still hold the job of Head Honcho of Human Resources. They just can't seem to get their arms around the reality of Military Life and what a Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine is subject to under UCMJ, in addition to all the Civilian laws.

So, if nothing else, this may serve to 'educate' the populace with regard to the 'added' bonus of military life.

I also agree that the IMPLICATIONS of her antics aren't even on the radar of these Metzger supporters. It's almost like they're saying..."Gee.. what's the big deal, all she did was 'go missing' for a little while, what she does with her body is her business"

And that, my friend is what really TORQUES me up.. I don't like calling idiots - IDIOTS - because it's spitting in the wind.. But the frustration of having to hear it over and over again from them becomes taxing...

I also notice that not much has been said on the 'other' forum. BTW.. your advice to the ROTC kid was dead center.

Wiz, want to share the oth... (Below threshold)
ikj:

Wiz, want to share the other forum link? If not, no worries. Its been slow here lately.

ikj-------------<a... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

ikj-------------

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/37919558

you'll have to go to page two - I believe - to find the thread.. actually there are two threads.. got pretty hot there for a while.. I left.. but I will be posting more later..

Thanks wiz... I'll check it... (Below threshold)
ikj:

Thanks wiz... I'll check it out for a few before I call it a night here.

ikj.... Here are t... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:
Johca ------------... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Johca ------------

When I think about the ROTC kid.. this is the exact scenario which can become a reality if that 'perceived' behavior isn't nipped..

Here's a kid who is just starting out and is struggling with the concept of doing the right thing. So much so, that he/she has to ask for advice to ensure that his/her instinct is headed true north.

One.. doing the right thing will reinforce the quality of leadership needed in todays military, and two, if the instinct is correct, may prevent an 'undesirable' from progressing into further questionable activity.

Had the job been done with Metzger when she was displaying these traits, we would probably not be sitting here having this discussion!!

Wiz,Thanks.... Joh... (Below threshold)
ikj:

Wiz,

Thanks.... Johca, good posts. I don't think I've got it in me to go thru that whole discussion on the other forum. (I thought I did, but nope... I don't).

Percocet is kicking in! I'm going to go apologize to my Harley (again).

For anyone who's out of the... (Below threshold)
DM:

For anyone who's out of the loop, Wizbanger to Johca above is referring to a thread called "What are your thoughts on this? (possibly controversial)" on the military forum website http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/37919558

DM---------Thanks.... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

DM---------

Thanks.. should'a opened it up for everyone to read..

ikj: Hope your arm is doin... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ikj: Hope your arm is doing well and your wife did not kick butt the other night

Pete: Well said

Wizzzzzzz: Agreed, you're the man

A Jill Metzger update as of... (Below threshold)
Mooney:

A Jill Metzger update as of today... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218323,00.html

All,Sorry, I hit "... (Below threshold)
Mooney:

All,

Sorry, I hit "post" a bit too soon... Anyhow, I just happened upon your thread a few days ago. I hope you don't mind me intruding, but I thought the above story may be interesting to some of you.

Mooney: THANKS FOR THAT AR... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Mooney: THANKS FOR THAT ARTICLE! Welcome to the room. Caution: It gets hot in here sometimes.

That is exactly what is needed. AUTHORITIES investigating other than the AF - PERFECT!


p.s. ok, done cleaning up a bit in here - phew - taking out the trash can be exhausting :-)

Public Announcement #401-06... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Public Announcement #401-06


Calling all CheerLeaders.. A new group of CheerLeaders is being recruited for the Jill Metzger Defense Detail.. All prospective applicants and candidates are requested to apply in person. Prior members of the Metzger Cheer Leaders of America, and the St Thomas Hospital for the Criminally Insane (which btw, is where the Cheer Leaders reside)are encouraged to reapply. Personal knowledge of, or acquaintance with, Jill Metzger is not mandatory. You will be given 'The Book of Metzger Cheers' from which you can recite the chants. Some familiarity with the English language is mandatory.

Due to the abrupt departure of the previous contingent of supporters, the team has been left without leadership. A nominal 'supporter fee' will be paid by the Metzger Glee Club for your participation.

It is indeed, unfortunate that she has been abandoned by the previous support team. Like mushrooms, they left just as quickly as they sprouted.

Rehead Infidel... where are you when we need you?????

Wiz: You have got to be on... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: You have got to be one of the most clever persons I have seen, err heard ah read!

That was.....PRICELESS....

I wrote to several editors ... (Below threshold)
Gh:

I wrote to several editors and writers of several major newspapers, including the Washington Post and the NY Times. I'm upset at the lack of media attention this thing has received.

I actually put in a dig that Fox News being a better new service for information etc.

I am glad though that it appears the truth is coming out now or will soon.

Just noticed that my senten... (Below threshold)
Gh:

Just noticed that my sentence structure needs work. LOL

With the FBI investigating,... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

With the FBI investigating, this is going to break soon enough. It is obvious she is not telling the truth, bout' time someone is looking into this. Some major areas were breached here and it is deeper than just a woman lying to her Command. Much deeper...

And the battle rages on. S... (Below threshold)
Dorothy:

And the battle rages on. So glad to see someone pointing out to Deb G that using "you're jealous" as a defense, over and over and over and over and over again, is not really all that effective...more like pathetic. What's next, Deb G, something equally lame like "I know you are but what am I?" Believe me, people here don't pick on you because you're a "strong female" (excuse me while I do a little LOL-ing of my own!) but because you happen to be a major league jerk...simple as that. There's no doubt in my mind that you enjoy the hostility directed towards you because even negative attention is better than no attention at all. Sad.

Anyone want to talk about p... (Below threshold)
Polygraphed:

Anyone want to talk about polygraphs?

It would be something different for a few posts and I'm curious about your comments. Maybe the resident agent who is trolling our board could shed some light for us, too.

I have a few comments and personal experience to share...

Bottom line (that would be from my bottom) is that polygraphs are pretty amazing tools. They are not perfect, but they are very telling.

Just because Jill failed though doesn't mean that she was not telling the truth or part of the truth...just that she didn't believe it or she was stressed about it or she was hiding something else.

I can't explain the psychology (of physiology) of the process, but my last polygrapher and I spent a lot of quality time talking about it as he was trying to unscrew me from the ceiling.

I was a repeat customer because, for example, when they said "Have you ever lied to someone who trusted you?" I had revealed everything I remembered, but I KNEW there had to be more...there had to be something more..."what if I'm forgetting something"...I found it terribly distracting and I felt like a horrible person. If they asked me if I was a bank robber, I would have FELT like a bank robber. It was like I doubted myself and I didn't believe it when I answered "no"...what if I was wrong? But it was the truth. It can make you crazy. I wasn't trying to hide anything, but I was worried what they thought and I how I looked. I can't IMAGINE the stress of taking that test if you had anything to hide...even if it was unrelated to the incident in question.

One last rambling comment is that "I'm a good person" is really a stretch when you are going back over your whole life and you are taking inventory of every infraction or indiscretion. Even if you are a "good person"

If Jill had other stuff to hide, it would make the polygraph hard to pass...even if she was telling the truth about her incident. I guess it just depends on how they were asking the questions. I am pretty sure though that the examiner knew how to ask the questions and they got the information they needed to continue their investigation in the right direction.

Long post, I know. It is late.

I meant pyschology or physi... (Below threshold)
Polygraphed:

I meant pyschology or physiology, not psychology of phsyiology. Oops.

I am sorry I have been miss... (Below threshold)
Julie:

I am sorry I have been missing for a few days but someone put a bomb in my pocket, I felt like I was in a trance, I was led away in a Toyota Sienna Van and put in a dark room-I finally escaped when they were trying to feed me a meal....I, despite being 5'1 and 100 lbs. was able to beat up this huge male and run, barefoot to a house, miles away with bloody feet and explain to a family in the middle of the night that I was abducted from my shopping companions at the mall, from an Abercrombie.

You don't believe me?

What?

Sounds all too familiar?

OK...

Yes, I have been crazy with WORK (OK, yes, I am of the working class....ho hum) and have had a wonderful time reading the contributions to this board. Glad to see Deb, Johca and Wiz are still around...As well as the others...

Dorothy:What do yo... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Dorothy:

What do you think happened to Jill Metzger? Do you think she engaged in this ploy for attention or do you think there was an abduction?

Just curious...

Dorothy: Get over it. See... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Dorothy: Get over it. Seems we have been past this Deb G. fascination. Ah, I don't need negative attention and you're doing just fine at it, re-read my posts, they don't ask for negative attention, they contribute to this area. Sorry, but my posts are no different than many others on here so yes, jealousy and the inability to come up with any of your own theories comes to mind. Jerk? LOL - grow up. If relaying theories and then commenting on some comments directed to me makes me a jerk in your eyes, that is hypocritical. I guess Wizbang Poster, Julie, johca, DM, VR and a slew of other strong, intelligent and excellent speculators are jerks too????? Sorry, but the definition of "jerk" describes your actions by bashing someone for no reason and being foolish in that you offer nothing to this board and have no idea what you are talking about. You have issues. You don't know me, who cares what I say and write on this board and if it bothers you - don't read it. Do you have ulcers and do your nerves shake because you let small things and things other people do bother you? Thought so.......So, do YOU have any idea what happened to Jill Metzger and do you have ANY idea of the recent findings on here or did you just sign in and scroll down to see if Deb G. was around or on here lately? Psycho.

All: Was told that more info. on Jill would be out within a week - let's hope that hearsay info. is true....

It can't be feeling too coz... (Below threshold)
Julie:

It can't be feeling too cozy for Jill to be investigated by the FBI. I am so happy that something is finally being reported on this! Looking forward to the TRUTH...whatever that may be.

***Doing the happy dance here***

Julie: I think Jill is a "... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: I think Jill is a "jerk" (funny writing that) and the whole reason she did what she did was for negative attention. She might not have been getting enough being a Major in the AF and a Marathon runner. Even though she was going to get a TON of attention when she got home because of everyone keeping eyes on her at the Marathon she was supposed to run and with all the parties family and friends had planned for her recent marriage and travelling (which the family stated) and then the honeymoon. I don't think that would have been enough attention, so, she staged an abduction because all the media attention and AF investigating is well ATTENTION. Even though NEGATIVE it seems what she needed.....or perhaps she was jealous that there might have been a runner at the marathon who she knew was going to beat her, thus, wanted an excuse not to run - that's it, Jealousy!

Julie: Happy dancing with ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: Happy dancing with you!!!!

You go girl!!!

Dorothy: Lastly, what is s... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Dorothy: Lastly, what is sad is people like you coming in here and commenting about comments being said in regards to Jill Metzger (which is why the room was set up). Sad that you feel the need to name call and character bash yet stand by Metzger - that is really sad given the loss of integrity she has, what she has done to this nation, the military and the relationship we have with foreign allies. But mostly sad because YOU take it personal when someone posts here (mostly me). Pathetic really and completely shows you have no knowledge or intelligence of the bigger pictures around you but stand within a tiny little bubble which reminds me of a kindergarten playground. The only negative attention is the one you live in your head.

I have a question: Why do you side with Jill Metzger? Do you personally know her? Lastly, why do you care so much what I post????? Creepy really.

Polygraphed: Great info. o... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Polygraphed: Great info. on the polygraph. I have had polygraphs for work situations, and you are right, at times, they make you doubt your own history and wonder if you truly could have done something in your past and then you wonder if the wondering is going to make you fail. Can be a bit stressing if you think TOO MUCH while doing it. I don't know all the details, but they have their ways on very "certain questions" to get the info. they want. I still don't like doing them.

Dorothy: LASTLY, how twist... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Dorothy: LASTLY, how twistingly ironic it is that you say my saying you are jealous over and over again is not all that effective because it is YOU and 1 or 2 others who say OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, etc...again Deb G. this and that and the other, over and over again bringing up Deb G., not effective any longer and very pathetic.....you seriously need to re-evaluate where the pathetic mentality is on this one - you are not in touch with reality whatsoever or right from wrong.....if YOU did not say over and over again things about Deb G. then Deb G. would not say over and over again how JEALOUS you are - get it???? easy huh???? the candle does not burn without the fire, fire can provide warmth and food, or burn your house down or you, a knife can cut things you need cut or your food or KILL you if used wrong, so, stop using this post/comment area/blog wrong and it will stop making you insane. As far as "I know you are but what am I" -sounds like you have that area covered (name calling, LOLing of your own-which is mimicking, providing no insight here)....so, grow up and find some area in your life where you are not miserable.......it will also help with your frustration in this blog/comment/post area...better yet, just don't come in here if it makes you that mad.

Deb & Polygraphed: I have o... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Deb & Polygraphed: I have often thought that if faced with a polygraph I would fail just on the basis that I would be nervous about each question, thinking about each little white lie I had ever told, doubting my "truth." Thinking about telling my friend I couldn't watch his mean pit bull because I was taking my pig, Hamlet to an anti-pork rally that weekend when, in fact that was not the case. Thinking about all those Friday nights I was really free when I said I wasn't. Thinking about each mitigating circumstance that I was being questioned about that didn't have a clear answer. I suppose the exams and those giving them do have more of a scientific approach to get their information but a rather intimidating experience for those of us unfamiliar with them, indeed.

Disclaimer: Julie does hereby acknowledge that some of the information in this post is for the purpose of humor. She in no way makes any way claim to own a living pig, have attended anti-pork rallies, or is making a broad generalized statement that all pit bulls are mean animals. She does, however, own a TY beanie pink pig, named Hamlet.

Deb: I agree with you on th... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Deb: I agree with you on the negative attention. Regardless of the reason she went AWOL...abortion, affair, etc...I think she is arrested in her level of emotional/psychological development where negative attention is better than no attention. Just like a child who acts up to get attention. Like you said, all the attention from the marriage, marathon (although if abortion, she would not be running) and parties for being back home just wasn't enough.

Sad for her husband and family.


Not looking for an excuse BUT often the result of sexual abuse a young girl (broad generalization coming up) includes promiscuity, arrested development and attention seeking behavior in a negative manner. Just wondering if the heat gets put on Jill by the FBI, if an admission that she was sexually abused as a young girlwill follow, and she enters rehab for drinking, like Foley. That's it, she was on a 3 day drinking binge! Why didn't we see this sooner?

Sorry to all who have been ... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Sorry to all who have been victim to my typos and syntax errors due to my impatience and poor typing skills (no editor in residence...). This board is not updating for me and I think I may find myself on a three day binge...Starting with Pinot Grigio...OK, a glass. I am threatening to work my way up to the harder stuff. My typing doesn't get better, and my theories don't either!

I hope to start getting the "feed" soon!

Searching other avenues for news about Jill.

Julie: ROFL! A TY beanie ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: ROFL! A TY beanie pig and anti-pig rally. I have a Dobe whose favorite toy is a beanie pig!!! He takes care of the dang thing and is careful with it, funny to watch!

There has been instances where polygraph tests are not always accurate. Before the test they calm you down, telling you to RELAX, breath. For me, they did not start unless you were relaxed and ready. All work related though so it was not like I was up on a criminal charge. You do, however, wonder about your life and past and oh my, what if what if.....well, with the FBI investigating now, she should be worried. This could take a while, but I was told some significant news was coming within a week - again, this is hearsay and I don't know that for sure....3rd party stuff....we shall see

Julie: ROFL! A TY beanie ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: ROFL! A TY beanie pig and anti-pig rally. I have a Dobe whose favorite toy is a beanie pig!!! He takes care of the dang thing and is careful with it, funny to watch!

There has been instances where polygraph tests are not always accurate. Before the test they calm you down, telling you to RELAX, breath. For me, they did not start unless you were relaxed and ready. All work related though so it was not like I was up on a criminal charge. You do, however, wonder about your life and past and oh my, what if what if.....well, with the FBI investigating now, she should be worried. This could take a while, but I was told some significant news was coming within a week - again, this is hearsay and I don't know that for sure....3rd party stuff....we shall see

I don't know about those po... (Below threshold)
johni:

I don't know about those polygraphs. I had to take one (after I graduated from high school but before joining the navy) just to be a night stockboy in a supermarket. I called myself the nightstalker because it was the 11pm to 7am shift. Anyway i lied to a few questions that i didn't want to be honest about in that test and still passed. When the examiner asked me if I ever shoplifted anything i said no (that was a lie.... i did a few years earlier). I was amazed and still got the job. When i wanted to lie and a NO answer should have really been a YES answer, I simply told myself answer to a question that was true ... such as ... I would say "NO" and then say to myself "cows don't fly" or visa versa... i would say "Yes" and then say "Dollar bills are green" .

So did I beat the test??... a dumb ass 19 yr old
kid? I don't get it, i lied and I still got the job, ever since then, those things don't really mean much to me. Just a thought on my experience with a lie detector test.

Hey wait just a minute "Deb... (Below threshold)
Dorothy:

Hey wait just a minute "Deb G"....I never said it made me mad to read the blog. Quite the contrary...I find it entertaining, the way freak shows are entertaining. As far as my opinion about Jill Metzger...I've said at least four times that I think she's lying but I'm not obsessing over it like some people are. You know, "Deb G," it's really starting to show that you're not an angry person at all...not even one teeny tiny little bit. Sarcasm intended.

Checking in today and see n... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Checking in today and see nothing happening. Will check again tomorrow.

Johni: Interesting way of looking at a polygraph test and your story made me smile. I have heard many stories of people actually lying to a question and still passing the test! They are not 100% accurate.

Dorothy: LOL, I am far from angry, don't get angry. You are useless and actually quite "mean". Angry people say bad things about others when they feel less than adequate about themselves. Strong people with intelligence know how to cope and defend. I should just ignore you, but I find you "entertaining"....there is not one thing on this blog/comment/site which bothers me, not even you. Not sure why my life has you so intrigued enough to constantly bash. You NEVER come in here without mentioning me and bashing, that Dorothy, is a real MENTAL ISSUE (like a bully in the playground)....do yourself a favor and seek help. This site should NOT make you sad, happy, glad, mad or anything against anyone....talk about freak show.

Wow, North Korea does a nuc... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wow, North Korea does a nuclear test. This made history. I wonder what the UN will do now? Maybe we should start a new thread.......

Someone posted funny stuff ... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Someone posted funny stuff on Metzger subject about Metzger's claims that she was robbed.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=158587

Silly female Air Force Major make big lie story--say she robbed by Kyrgyz bandit. But we see big diamond ring on hand! What you think--we fool? We no know value diamond ring? Who silly fool now! You ALL go home! You lose war, Kyrgz warlord laugh at you! You no understand Asia, you fool!

Deb G. - to quote IKJ earli... (Below threshold)
DM:

Deb G. - to quote IKJ earlier "If you really want the folks to back off then don't answer absurd attacks... or rather change tactics."

Also, this is not an attack, an observation.
You responded to Dorothy's one post about you with THREE posts. You say you don't care what people on this board think about you but you respond so vehemently to what they say that it's hard to believe that you don't care. Just a theory, but maybe you're being targeted because you're easily provoked. Besides that, Dorothy is as entitled to her opinion of you as you are to your opinion of Jill Metzger or of me for that matter. You've laughed at me, ridiculed me, and condescended in your writings to and about me on this board for what I've written. That's no different than Dorothy thinking you're a jerk for what you've written on this board. If you're going to be vocal, then people are going to form opinions of you based on what you say. I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself, but responding with name calling is juvenile and saying that everyone who opposes you is jealous and obsessed with you, well, that just comes off as narcissism.

I'm not trying to start an argument about this, but you posed the question of why people target you, so that's just my two cents.

DM: I come on here to mull... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: I come on here to mull around for any new info. on Jill Metzger and participate with info. of my own or opinions on the case, and have NEVER responded to you, nor anyone in regards to anything negative about what they say in regards to Jill Metzger's situation. I respond to anything said about me because I can and think it is absurd for you or anyone to keep bashing myself or anyone on this board. Fruitless really. And, sorry, but I don't care what you say about me - it means nothing to me or my life. I come on here to read words and info. on Metzger's case and as far I can recall, I am not making news anywhere around the world for lying to the government, military, civilians, or anyone about being abducted. Sorry, but I do NOT undersand why anyone would post or comment ro anyone else here about character, silly really. You don't know me and you certainly have no right to tell me what I should do or not do and I could care less about your observations about me, again, silly really...Immature to boot. Now, do you have any observations on Metzger? or how about the North Korean nuclear test? or perhaps Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes? Brad and Angelina? Illegal aliens coming into our country? Steve Irwin getting killed by a stingray barb? there are so many other topics in this world to dicuss, I'm not one of them and your observations on me are well, wrong, but hey, you're entitled to your opinion and so am I - I think you are just as immature and undirected as Dorothy. Perhaps the two of you could chat with each other? What a great coffee or tea time that would be. If you like drama and gossiping and forming opinions about so many other people, you shoudl work for the Enquirer.....those minds always want to know....people who constantly bash someone else do come across as jealous and obsessed - are you that way too??? The only time people like you seem to think I am vocal is when I respond back to you. So, you have a right to comment about me, but I don't have a right to comment back? LOL good one.

Kuba: I can't open that li... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba: I can't open that link. Is that the entirety of what it said??

Deb G. "So, you have a righ... (Below threshold)
DM:

Deb G. "So, you have a right to comment about me, but I don't have a right to comment back?" I didn't say that at all. In fact I said "I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself". I really don't think that you even attempt to read what half of us are writing. You rarely actually respond to any of the points or questions that I've directed toward you.

"Sorry, but I do NOT undersand why anyone would post or comment ro anyone else here about character" - I find this hypocritical because you are here, at least in part, to comment on the character of Jill Metzger. In fact, what you do is worse, because you ripped apart the character of someone when they weren't even around to defend themselves, but you don't want the same thing done to you. At least you are here to defend yourself.

In regards to you thinking you've NEVER responded to me negatively about what I think about Jill Metzger, I just don't have time to go through the 1400 message on the previous page to find examples. It's all about perception. I think you've laughed at me, you don't think you've laughed at me. You think my last post was 'bashing', but I don't have a malicious intent. Oh well.

You've ask repeatedly why people specifically write negatively about you, so I offered you my theory (Isn't that what we do here - theorize?) - you are easily provoked. Why do I think you're easily provoked? Because you can't let the comments go. Someone thinks you're a jerk and you respond by flipping out on them. You ask why people attack you, I try to tell you what I think, and you respond with an outburst.

I'm not claiming to have the 101 on Deb G. All I'm trying to say to you is that from the style and content of your writing, these are the opinions I've formed. "Deb G" is the summation of what Deb G has written. Take it how you will. But if you truly want us to believe that you don't care, that these opinions "don't mean anything" to you or your life, that you "could care less about your observations about me", then try torespond thoughtfully as opposed to emotionally.

DM DM DM: I know you canno... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM DM DM: I know you cannot SEE me behind this computer. I am not easily provoked and am as calm as can be and do not respond emotionally nor with an outburst (perhaps something you might do)- keep trying. I don't really WANT to know why people are bashing me or anyone here, just don't understand it - mind boggling really. I don't need an explanation, and I truly don't care. I don't comment on the character of Metzger, I comment on what I feel could have happened. Her character, however, is a direct reflection of her actions. Obviously, YOU, are provoked and rattled by me to keep commenting on what you think of me. I find that funny. I did not come on here posting about you, you came on here posting about me. You give it out, but cannot take it in. Would you like an observation on YOU?? Insecure, obsessed, unable to take what someone else says about you, unable to play games nicely, unable to theorize with others, opionated of others opinions, butts into others business, not in touch with reality, controlling, trying to make someone think the way YOU want them to think, ok, I will stop here - take it how you will, but if you truly want US (what do you belong to a gang or something) to believe that you don't care or my opinion means nothing to you then try responding intelligently instead of opionatedly (is that word?), or emotionally.....my perception is pretty good, yours is not....sorry

Came across this article. ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Came across this article. If you have already read this, apologies for the double posting. It is obvious at an early stage, Metzger was not believed.

Vanishing Major: Runaway Bride or Kidnap Victim?
September 11, 2006 8:12 PM

Luis Martinez Reports:

U.S. defense officials tell ABC News that serious inconsistencies have emerged in the investigation of the strange disappearance of Air Force Major Jill Metzger. Maj. Metzger vanished without a trace while shopping at a store in Kyrgyzstan on Sept. 5 until she just as mysteriously reappeared three days later.

Sources tell ABC News that surveillance video taken in the store contradict the Major's story that she was abducted after someone put a hard object in her back pocket along with a note saying that it was an explosive. The video indicates that she left the store of her own free will, and alone, according to sources who have seen the video.

As investigators gather all the facts surrounding the case, they are exploring the possibility that she was attempting to flee a recent marriage, according to one source close to the investigation. When she was found, her hair had been cropped short and dyed.

If Maj. Metzger was abducted, investigators will continue to work with local police in a criminal case. However, if she left on her own and she was not DUSTWUN -- Duty Status Whereabouts Unknown -- she will be reclassified as AWOL -- Absent Without Leave-- and open to punishment by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. A lower ranking enlisted person might just get a reprimand, but officers are held to a higher standard.

Maj. Metzger is currently at Landstuhl Air Force Base undergoing medical treatment and debriefing. She will return to the U.S. within the next three to four days to undergo further care and debriefing at Walter Reed Medical Center. Despite the fact that she is a two-time winner, Metzger will not be running in this weekend's Air Force Marathon as planned.

DM: "I don't comment on th... (Below threshold)
DM:

DM: "I don't comment on the character of Metzger". That's ludicrous. Reread what you've read and you'll see character judgment is a theme.

"You give it out, but cannot take it in." Deb, if I couldn't take it, I wouldn't still be here.

"Insecure" - If I were insecure, I'd hardly be able to stand the heat in here, especially as I often seem to be in the minority opinion.

"obsessed" - At the risk of feeding your naricissism, I'm not obsessed, you're just one of the most intriguing characters in here.

"unable to take what someone else says about you" - Untrue. I know what you think of me, and well, okay.

"unable to play games nicely" - I wasn't aware that we were playing games in here. But I'm glad to know that's what you think is going on.

"unable to theorize with others" - Just because I haven't thrown out a bunch of overblown theories out there doesn't mean that I'm unable to. I choose not to. And you can't say that I've not commented thoughtfully on other things - for example, my deduction regarding Josh's lack of knowledge regarding his wife as discussed above.

"opionated of others opinions" - How can you scold me for forming an opinion? That's what we're all doing here. Are you once again trying to make the rules to suit you?

"butts into others business" - I don't even know what you're talking about.

"not in touch with reality" - Who's reality? Yours? "Reality" is a subjective personal experience so this is hardly an insult.

"controlling" - How have I tried to control you? There is in fact, no way that I CAN control you. The fact that you bring this up so often makes me wonder if the person who has issues with control is not in fact you.

"trying to make someone think the way YOU want them to think" - First of all there's nothing illegal about persuasion. Second, I'm not jamming my opinions down anyone's throat. And thirdly, can you honestly say that YOU don't want people to think the way you do? You obviously want others to think that this is a story that deserves more media coverage and you want people to pay more attention to it. Otherwise, why would you have emailed anyone at Moody Airbase? That action alone shows that you want someone else to think the way you do.

When you say I'm rattled by you, well I'm not shaking in my shoes, but you do grate on my nerves.

Conclusion: Get off your high horse and ditch the double standard and hipocracy. This is what bothers me: You can do/say whatever you want, but if anyone who does or says that same thing and in doing so, offends you or comes into opposition with you, then they are wrong and worthy of a good tongue-lashing.

correction: The above is d... (Below threshold)
DM:

correction: The above is directed to Deb G., not DM.

"Sources tell ABC News that... (Below threshold)
DM:

"Sources tell ABC News that surveillance video taken in the store contradict the Major's story that she was abducted after someone put a hard object in her back pocket along with a note saying that it was an explosive. The video indicates that she left the store of her own free will, and alone, according to sources who have seen the video."

If Metzger was abducted, then the video doesn't necessarily contradict this. It DOES show that she walked out of the store on her own, which is apparently against the rules and is at the very least a careless decision. But the video can't show what happened OUTSIDE of the store. She could have taken a nap on the sidewalk, she could have joined a game a softball with some kids, or things could have played out as she said they did. Point is, a video only shows what happened INSIDE and can't rule out what happens someone walks out of range.

DM: Again, I ONLY respond ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: Again, I ONLY respond to someone commenting about me, not about Metzger's situation. I did not start this blog, comment area, post/thread and her character is a huge part of what she has done, however, I am not here to bash her character, merely trying to figure out what the truth might be - YOU DM, do not understand the depth of what she has done and I am not going to try to explain that to you, you would not get it anyway. The games I am referring to is you (and a few others) posting back to ME, not in regards to Metzger, just me, yes, I see it as a game, because it means nothign to me and is entertaining, like games are - goes not make a difference in my life, like a game does not. Umm, I emailed a few folks at Moody to ask their opinion, NOT tellt hem what to think or do. I can't even remember the rest of your post, I just know you wrote I grate on your nerves......hmmmmmm, that my dear is a problem, YOUR problem. If I grate on your nerves, STOP POSTING AND RESPONDING TO ME. Who cares what I write, really now, this is silly. For you to allow anything in here to grate on your nevers is disturbing. You DO NOT grate on my nerves because you mean nothing to me, you are merely a cyber person who happens to post back about me. I forget about this stuff until I come back to see if any new news is out on Metzger and, there you are! I also check into the news often, not about Metzger, but about other life situations and am heavily in tune with world situations - are you? or are you just in tune and mad at everyone around you who has an opinion you don't like or a character you don't like. I have a visual of what you might be like in person and defintely not someone I would ever associate with anyway....not into YOUR games or YOUR control sorry. I don't tell anyone here what to do or how to think, but YOU do - your perception is a bit ill versed.....ok, YOUR turn, just like a game, because YOU DM have made it that way.....

DM: Now, I have to comment... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: Now, I have to comment. A game of softball w/kids? It is certain, your reality factor is not in check.

DM: Now, I have to comment.... (Below threshold)
DM:

DM: Now, I have to comment. A game of softball w/kids? It is certain, your reality factor is not in check.

Posted by: Deb G. at October 9, 2006 01:18 PM

That's obvious a petty dig at me. That's not the point at all of my post and you seem intelligent enough to know that. But if you're not, then read my post again until you do because I can't be any clearer about it.

DM: You petty dig at me co... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: You petty dig at me constantly, re-read YOUR OWN posts and you couldn't be any clearer about it.

Intelligent enough? Now, I could almost assume the jist of your post, however, frankly, given the lack of recent sense, was not sure if you truly believed that could have happened. I have nothing against you DM, I really don't, but in all due respect, you DO NOT know me, my character, my intent, my reason for sending an email to Moody, my intrigue of reading this blog or thread or whatever you call it or the BIG PICTURE. Just like I don't know you, thus, it is silly of either of us to try and figure out what the other is like. Well, I am not trying to figure you out, but if we were put in a room together, say, for lunch, I can almost guarantee I would not grate on your nerves and ya might even like me! I don't know of anyone who feels I grate on their nerves, co-workers, friends, family. I actually have a rather good life and no enemies (none that I know of). This site does not count, because I don't know anyone here and noone here knows me either and this is a tiny fragment of my life, teeny teeny tiny, which I have met some nice folks whom I keep in touch via email right now. Mostly ladies, a few men. I have no ill intent here, toward anyone. I have the same reasons for coming here as 95% of others do. The other 5% are ill mannered in regards to the intent of this blog. and DM, I actually don't even think you are that 5%. I have actually enjoyed many of your posts, regardless of what you post to me.....

Deb G & DM.I have ... (Below threshold)
pete:

Deb G & DM.

I have come back refreshed from my spritual weekend retreat.

For my own gratification can we all stick to the subject of Maj Jill Metzger.

Please ladies, I fear you two may be making German spectacles of yourselves.

Pete

"spiritual weekend retreat"... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

"spiritual weekend retreat"

If it was anything like mine it started Thursday afternoon and, rum, vodka, and tequilla all played a primary roll for the duration. :-)

For the sake of clarificati... (Below threshold)
DM:

For the sake of clarification, I do not believe that Jill Metzger left the mall to play softball. I was trying to make a point, which I stated - that any number of things could have happened outside of the store, including that which was reported by Metzger, and that I don't think that a video of what happened INSIDE the store can rule out what happened OUTSIDE the store.

Pete,I was wonderi... (Below threshold)
DM:

Pete,

I was wondering who would be the first to ask Deb G. and myself to knock it off :-)

German spectacles?

Pete,Hear, hear! Let... (Below threshold)
VR:

Pete,
Hear, hear! Let's get back to Jill Metzger and out speculations about her situation.

Seems like it's pretty clear she left the mall to do something per her own agenda. Do we think she invented the entire story, or do we think something bad really did happen to her after her personal agenda plan fell through?

Let's assume she left the mall to go and do something the AF would be upset/embarrassed about: get an abortion, have an affair, buy EPO. But then is it possible she DID fall victim to foul play? Really WAS kidnapped? And then the perps realized she's military and panicked and let her go? If this happened, would it make sense that the military is keeping quiet about it now? What a touchy situation: on the one hand, she did something she shouldn't have initially, but on the other hand she was victimized and possibly raped/brutalized in some way. It would be somewhat difficult to punish her harshly...

Or is that way too far-fetched? Did she, instead, make the ENTIRE story up, dye her own hair, tear off her own necklace, slap her own face a little, run in bare feet to cover up for her botched abortion or her failed marital escape? If so, how could she POSSIBLY continue to tell her abduction story now, with all of the witnesses she left behind in Bishkek?

The comment from Lt Col "in the know", posted above, has the ring of truth to it. We've already covered this possibility here (abortion gone bad). Is there any other theory that holds water as well?

I am all with getting back ... (Below threshold)
johni:

I am all with getting back on topic,too. Please.

2Deb GFYIRepo... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

2Deb G
FYI
Reposting here content of URL.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=158587

Title: Security Services Unable To Reconstruct What Happened To USAF Major
Source: Eurasian Secret Services Daily Review
URL Source: http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp? article=1062
Published: Sep 12, 2006
Author: Staff at USSDR
Post Date: 2006-09-12 20:53:49 by Idol Hanz
20 Comments


Security services unable to reconstruct what happened to US captain in Kyrgyzstan

AIA already reported about the case of Jill Metzger , a US Air Force captain who was presumed kidnapped on September 5 in Kyrgyzstan before turning up three days later. More questions than answers continue to surround the case, online agency Eurasia.net writes today. Metzger, who was reportedly in the final days of a deployment at the US air base at Manas outside the Kyrgyz capital, vanished after last being seen at Bishkek's Central Department Store in the late afternoon on September 5. Three days later, she reappeared in Kant, a Bishkek suburb that also happens to be the home of a Russian military facility. While missing, Metzger's long blonde hair had been cut short and dyed black, according to local reports. Metzger, according to witnesses, seemed dazed when she reappeared, but showed no visible signs of physical abuse; she is "undergoing follow-up medical evaluations and debriefings" at the Landstuhl Regional Medical Centre in Germany, according to a US Air Force statement. Beyond this, what happened to Metzger remains a mystery, Eurasia.net says. Local news accounts, citing security services investigators, say that Metzger claimed that she had been kidnapped, but in the moments immediately after she resurfaced, she reportedly provided Kyrgyz police with contradictory information about her experience. Several Kyrgyz media outlets said surveillance video at the department store showed Metzger leaving alone. The 24.kg news agency, citing a security forces source, reported that a woman matching Metzger's description speaking in Russian approached "the operator of a telephone outlet" in Bishkek and a private taxi driver admitted giving a "foreign woman" a lift on September 5 around the time of Metzger's disappearance. Security services have been unable to reconstruct what happened after this point until her reappearance. The 24.kg report of a foreign woman speaking in Russian contradicts an account provided by the couple in Kant who first encountered Metzger on September 8. The Bely Parakhod newspaper quoted a woman, identified as Svetlana Ishchenko, as saying that when Metzger mysteriously appeared at her front door, the American seemed to be in a state of shock and could not speak a word of Russian.

Comments:

1. To: Idol Hanz (#0)

Jusnt another chick gone wild. I'm wondering if she was wearing zee uniform or at least portions of it while being... you know... kidnapped.

A Vast RightWing Conspirator posted on 2006-09-12 20:55:54 ET Reply Trace


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2. To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator (#1)
Silly Air Force Major make big lie story! She insult all good Kyrgz people! She go home now---and take suitcase with her! Kyrgz warlord laugh at American-- why you use silly female major to fight war? We laugh! You look silly!


Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 20:59:15 ET Reply Trace


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3. To: All (#0)
Silly female Air Force Major make big lie story--say she robbed by Kyrgz bandit. But we see big diamond ring on hand! What you think--we fool? We no know value diamond ring? Who silly fool now! You ALL go home! You lose war, Kyrgz warlord laugh at you! You no understand Asia, you fool!

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 21:04:19 ET Reply Trace


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4. To: Idol Hanz (#0)
Post hypnotic suggestion?

Manchurian Candidate?

scratch that

Womanchurian Candidate.

Goldi-Lox posted on 2006-09-12 23:09:59 ET Reply Trace


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5. To: Goldi-Lox (#4)
it's possible she did not tell the police what happened
I am sure she is telling the military everything now

palo verde posted on 2006-09-12 23:14:55 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. To: palo verde (#5)
No, Palo--you still don't get it.

The military is telling HER what to say now. They want this to go away and they will concoct a story. OR, they will quietly give her an article 15 and bury it. Article 15's are not FOIA'ble so the media wont find out no matter how hard they dig.

Meanwhile, the enlisted go to jail for the same offenses on Animal Farm. (some animals are more equal then other animals)

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 23:19:34 ET

Comments (continued):... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Comments (continued):

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=158587

9. To: palo verde (#7)
1) USAF and the embassy refused to conduct a joint investigation--this alone speaks volumnes. If there was "foul play" suspected it is to the advantage of the United States to work closely with the host nation--This is NOT what happened! The US immedieatly put her on an aircraft and removed her. They refused to cooperate with the Kyrgyz authorities who had jurisdiction.

If there was "foul play" don't you think the US would work with the Kyrgyz to find the "culprits" DUH!!!! Wake up!

2) She told the Kyrgyz that she had been "robbed" of a necklace but she had a diamond on her hand!!

Give it up Palo--stop being "PC". If you can't smell the truth in this case, I feel sorry for you. This is not "animal farm" where some animals (female officers) are more equal then others. Just because your a female and an officer doesnt excuse you from "equal justice under law".

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 23:32:40 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. To: palo verde (#8)
Great, the investigators were there. Why didnt they conduct a joint investigation after she was found? Please explain this FACT.

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 23:33:37 ET Reply Trace


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11. To: All (#10)
Why did she leave by herself??? She was under orders not to go out alone and yet she left by herself. This fact is evidenced by the video tape!!

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 23:34:53 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. To: All (#0)
The bottom line her is the USAF leadership want this to go away and they will lie and deny till the bitter end.

I'm writing all the major media and demand that they investigate, investigate, investigate, dig dig dig....get to the bottom of it!!


Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 23:37:40 ET Reply Trace

13. To: Idol Hanz (#9)

Give it up Palo--stop being "PC". If you can't smell the truth in this case, I feel sorry for you. This is not "animal farm" where some animals (female officers) are more equal then others. Just because your a female and an officer doesnt excuse you from "equal justice under law".

I'm not pc
I'm not on her side because she is a gal
I am on the side of truth

if she was abducted in foreign country
and crimes done to her during her abduction
and in a state of shock, I can understand why she would not say anything to the foreign police
she just wanted to be returned to the military
she just wanted to be safe

I do not want to cast aspersions on foreign police I know nothing about
but if she were abducted by gangsters
she doesn't know who in the police dept may be connected to gangsters

her best bet is so say almost nothing to them
just be returned to military
and then tell the military everything
which I am sure she did

palo verde posted on 2006-09-12 23:41:02 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. To: Idol Hanz (#11)

Why did she leave by herself??? She was under orders not to go out alone and yet she left by herself. This fact is evidenced by the video tape!!

I thought the article said she was taken on military shopping spree
and was last seen in the department store

obviously you know far many more details about this than I do
and have followed it much more closely

however your conclusions don't wash with me
I prefer my own conclusions
I don't care how many times you call me stupid bimbo

I think she was abducted and I think she was raped
because she showed up at the woman's farm house with bruises on her face, in state of shock, wearing clothes way too big for her
and her blond hair was dyed black

I don't think they realized they had abducted a US Air Force Colonel
but after her pic was shown on tv
they dyed her hair

palo verde posted on 2006-09-12 23:50:08 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. To: Idol Hanz (#11)

Why did she leave by herself??? She was under orders not to go out alone and yet she left by herself. This fact is evidenced by the video tape!!
she may have been abducted from the dept store at gunpoint
I don't know why she left the dept store with the gangsters?

the videotape from the department store you mean
I am not so sure I trust what the foreign police are saying now
it is very serious thing that US Air Force Colonel was abducted and crimes done to her

they may prefer to make it sound like she is a crazy lady making stuff up
(the store would say what the police want them to say)

palo verde posted on 2006-09-12 23:56:15 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. To: Idol Hanz (#10)

Great, the investigators were there. Why didnt they conduct a joint investigation after she was found? Please explain this FACT.
maybe the Air Force does not want investigation either
neither does the foreign police
nobody wants to make waves about this

palo verde posted on 2006-09-12 23:58:53 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. To: Idol Hanz (#12)

The bottom line here is the USAF leadership want this to go away and they will lie and deny till the bitter end.

on that we agree

palo verde posted on 2006-09-13 00:49:29 ET Reply Trace


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18. To: palo verde (#17)
Yes, but what about the enlisted going on trial for the same allah damned thing.

I suppose you think that's fair....? Again, you have no sense of justice. Political correctness is the order of the day!

REVOLT!

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-13 13:02:58 ET Reply Trace


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19. To: palo verde (#15)

she may have been abducted from the dept store at gunpoint
yeah, and monkeys are flying out of my butt too...dream on, Palo

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-13 13:03:42 ET Reply Trace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. To: Idol Hanz (#18)

Yes, but what about the enlisted going on trial for the same allah damned thing.
I suppose you think that's fair....? Again, you have no sense of justice. Political correctness is the order of the day!


I am not going to respond to your posts further because of the contempt you are expressing for me in these posts
(even tho I remain tremendously fond of you, and always have been)
I do not belive an enlisted man was abducted, raped, beaten
and then put on trial for AWOL
our Air Force is not monsters

and if she were simply AWOL -- I think she would be on trial
pc only goes so far
Kelly Flynn's career was destroyed by Air Force, in fact they were going to court martial her
for refusing to stop dating the civilian husband of an enlisted woman

she was only allowed to have Dishonorable Discharge instead of court martial
because of the intervention of Trent Lott, then Majority Leader of US Senate

palo verde posted on 2006-09-13 13:59:30 ET Reply Trace

ijosha: Funny stuff. Soun... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ijosha: Funny stuff. Sounds like a great weekend retreat!

German spectacles? What the?? ah heck....

What were we talking about anyway....Metzger.....

I think I might change the abortion theory to the playing softball outside theory - why not? Possible, she was, afterall, atheletic....(cough)

Kuba,Thanks for po... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba,

Thanks for posting that. You come up with some great info.! I know at times it seems you post intently and folks give you a hard time too, however, I also understand your loyalty to your country and this is what provokes your need for further info. as it does mine and many others here. I don't see anything wrong with what you do, keep doing it!

Metzger Flier, snagged off ... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Metzger Flier, snagged off a building in Bishkek
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathanhamm/254271745/

The Major's story holds wat... (Below threshold)
johca:

The Major's story holds water until offical news release states otherwise. There may be a hole or more causing the water to leak out, but the investigation might just find something other than what we on best guess think happened.

The medical examination done immdiately after her reappearance will have found signs of medical condition and medical procedure if it happened. I can wait for official disclosure of cause of the disappearance which will state at minimium if misconduct and medical condition was or wasn't the primary cause.

Here is a recent abduction that happened in Mexico. Alaskan woman escapes kidnappers near Zihuatanejo

Has some similarities except there was ransom demand and other communications.

May I ask you all one simpl... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

May I ask you all one simple question. Give me simple answer.

Kyrgyzstan has huge American expat community.
There are number of Peace Corpse volunteers, most of them work and live in remote, rural areas.
They would have made an far easier target for potential abductors.

And why then Jill Metzger is picked out of the crowd to be abducted? What was the agenda of abductors?

- Maybe, it's because she was so exceptionally pretty? And some local warlord wanted to make her his wifey?

- Common, drop it, she is not that good looking woman. Her looks are below average.
There are much better looking gals walking in Bishkek streets.

- Did she have an value as an intel source?
- She could not come up with better excuse than bomb and trance story. I am questioning here her intellectual abilities. What kind of intel source she would have been then?

- Maybe someone wanted to abduct her and ask for ransom?

- And why exactly no female Peace Corps Volunteer was abducted in nearly 16 years time since they arrived in Kyrgyzstan? And they are more vulnerable than Jill Metzger: they live with Kyrgyz host families in rural Kyrgystan, they have no body guards and weapons to protect them. Often villages they live are located in remote areas. Perfect place to snatch someone.

- She claimed she was robbed by abductors.
But she was still wearing expensive diamond rind when she reappeared.

- One strange thing: When she reappeared, Kyrgyz police informed US embassy. The US marines arrived shortly, smashed video and photo cameras of local journalists, shouting "No press!".
So, US Embassy knew something at that point of time that we do not know?


I am now really baffled at Jill Metzger's moronity. A kid could have done better job of lying.

Kuba Kyrgyz -- Wow! I found... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Kuba Kyrgyz -- Wow! I found that link to the flyer foto barely 20 minutes ago and was going to post it, only to see you beat me to it.

OK, here's the question I was going to post along with it:

I wonder what the hand-written note on the lower-right side of the flyer says?

"I wonder what the hand-wri... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

"I wonder what the hand-written note on the lower-right side of the flyer says?"

Looks like, just a scribbles. Cannot make it out.

If Jill WAS snatched (which... (Below threshold)
VR:

If Jill WAS snatched (which sound unlikely, but possible) she would look like a good target because:
she is small and thin
she looks Europeanish so probably a tourist
she is by herself
she has a big bag of stuff and a cellphone and jewelry, so looks relatively wealthy
she looks lost and doesn't speak Russian

Going against the possibility of a kidnapping:
--the Kyrgyz officials clearly think it didn't happen, and they aren't pursuing it. Jill is not giving them more information, as far as we know, which would probably be happening if she had been kidnapped
--her story (even if we discount the bomb in the pocket/trance part) is wacky. They dyed her hair? She hit someone and escaped?
--kidnapping is an unlikely crime of opportunity. Robbery, yes; rape, yes; but a 3-day kidnapping, no.
--if it was a planned kidnapping (let's say some bad guys knew her plan to go into Bishkek by herself and waylaid her) then they would have had a ransom plan and a better security plan. (And let's consider what kind of fools would kidnap an American military member? An airman would have a hell of a lot of people looking for him/her right away, and clearly his/her family would be unlikely to be wealthy enough to pay any big ransom. Bad selection.) Kuba is right, a Peace Corps volunteer would be a better target because they're often from wealthy families.
--hair dye and cut. Why would kidnappers bother?

What really happened? She ... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

What really happened? She lost another pool-hall panties bet! (HappyCivilian post from long ago)
She was supposed to streak all the way back to base, but got lost. She stole some clothing drying on a closeline. The real mystery is the cut and dyed hair (wasn't part of the bet)...

Another, alternative theory... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Another, alternative theory:

She (Metzger) was going to return to US in couple of days. She left TSUM shopping mall to buy Afghan heroin, which is available at dirt cheap price in Bishkek. She hoped to smuggle it to USA on military transport and earn a few bobs. (I do know that militaries are involved in Afghan heroin trafficking.) She made a couple of phone calls. Met with drug dealers. Something went wrong. And et cetera.

Why Is the US Letting Afgha... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Why Is the US Letting Afghan Drug Production Resume?


According to the 2/18/02 Financial Times (London),

"The US and United Nations have ignored repeated calls by the international anti-drugs community to address the increasing menace of Afghanistan's opium cultivation, threatening a rift between Europe and the US as they begin to reconstruct the country....

How could the US, which until recently spoke loudly and often of the need to wage a war on drugs, be so silent about the Afghan drug problem? One can think of a number of possible explanations. One is that drugs are now the chief source of income for Afghanistan, whose traditional economy has been almost destroyed.

This is a matter of extreme concern to America's chief ally in the region, Pakistan. Pakistan, which has had to support about 3 million Afghan refugees for the last two decades, saw an additional two hundred thousand flee the country after September 11, 2001. The failure to secure a stable peace has meant that refugees are still coming. Musharraf and the US have political as well as economic reasons to wish to reverse this flow. Many of the refugees are disaffected and open to Islamist recruitment.

This brings us to the sensitive and complex question of the drug involvement of Pakistan's lead intelligence agency, the ISI (Interservices Intelligence). The ISI, CIA, and Afghan drug traffic have been a single story since the CIA, in May 1979, first met with the ISI protege, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar; and proceeded to fund him, even as his guerrilla operation evolved into a professional drug network with its own heroin labs (McCoy, Politics of Heroin, 451).

From 1996 to 2001 bin Laden was a source of support, along with "Islamic charities in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States," for the Tajikistan-based Uzbek Islamic resistance known since 1998 as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, or IMU (Rashid, Jihad, 154; cf. 133, 140, 165). Bin Laden has allegedly, with ISI and Taliban blessing, used the former Hekmatyar drug network to sustain the IMU; he even instituted a regular air service between Nangarhar, where the opium was grown, and Kunduz in northern Afghanistan, a city with a reported heroin lab where the IMU had a major base (Labeviere, 105, 113 [air service]; Cooley, 154 [heroin lab]; Griffin, Reaping the Whirlwind, 150). The IMU has since allegedly established heroin labs in Tajikistan (Rashid, Jihad, 165).

Despite these facts, the relationship between the US and the IMU is far too complex to make the IMU an obvious target for the US "war against terror." If the CIA, via its sister agency the Pakistan ISI, can maintain a degree of control over the drug flow reaching the IMU, this confers a degree of influence over not just the IMU but the Government of Uzbekistan.

<a href="http://www.... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060921&articleId=3294

Legal Business and Illicit Trade are Intertwined

There are powerful business and financial interests behind narcotics. From this standpoint, geopolitical and military control over the drug routes is as strategic as oil and oil pipelines.

Moreover, the above figures including those on money laundering, confirm that the bulk of the revenues associated with the global trade in narcotics are not appropriated by terrorist groups and warlords, as suggested by the UNODC report. In the case of Afghanistan, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that a mere 2.7 billion accrues as revenue within Afghanistan. According to the US State department "Afghanistan drug profits support the Taliban and their terrorism efforts against the United States, its allies and the Afghan government." (statement, the House Appropriations foreign operations, export financing and related programs subcommittee. September 12, 2006)

However, what distinguishes narcotics from legal commodity trade is that narcotics constitutes a major source of wealth formation not only for organized crime but also for the US intelligence apparatus, which increasingly constitutes a powerful actor in the spheres of finance and banking. This relationship has been documented by several studies including the writings of Alfred McCoy. (Drug Fallout: the CIA's Forty Year Complicity in the Narcotics Trade. The Progressive, 1 August 1997).

In other words, intelligence agencies, powerful business, drug traders and organized crime are competing for the strategic control over the heroin routes. A large share of this multi-billion dollar revenues of narcotics are deposited in the Western banking system. Most of the large international banks together with their affiliates in the offshore banking havens launder large amounts of narco-dollars.

This trade can only prosper if the main actors involved in narcotics have "political friends in high places." Legal and illegal undertakings are increasingly intertwined, the dividing line between "businesspeople" and criminals is blurred. In turn, the relationship among criminals, politicians and members of the intelligence establishment has tainted the structures of the state and the role of its institutions including the Military.

Kuba, I've read through man... (Below threshold)
DM:

Kuba, I've read through many posts regarding Metzger on the libertypost.org and was wondering - are you Idol Hanz?

Deb G said: "ok, d... (Below threshold)
Kurt:
Deb G said: "ok, done cleaning up a bit in here - phew - taking out the trash can be exhausting :-)"

Methinks thou doth protest waaaaay too much.

DM, I'd say that Kuba and I... (Below threshold)
lurker:

DM, I'd say that Kuba and Idol Hanz are definitely the same guy. This is Kuba's post here at Wizbang:

Silly female Air Force Major make big lie story--say she robbed by Kyrgyz bandit. But we see big diamond ring on hand! What you think--we fool? We no know value diamond ring? Who silly fool now! You ALL go home! You lose war, Kyrgz warlord laugh at you! You no understand Asia, you fool!

Posted by: Kuba Kyrgyz at October 9, 2006 07:46 AM

...and here's Idol Hanz's post at libertypost:

3. To: All (#0) Silly female Air Force Major make big lie story--say she robbed by Kyrgz bandit. But we see big diamond ring on hand! What you think--we fool? We no know value diamond ring? Who silly fool now! You ALL go home! You lose war, Kyrgz warlord laugh at you! You no understand Asia, you fool!

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-09-12 21:04:19 ET Reply Trace

Same guy who loves that copy and paste - must think he's wittier than he really is.

As to Kurt's comment: I've been lurking on and off and have seen a lot of Deb G's rants on this board, but none of them - NONE - matched her meltdown over having her real name posted. Talk about pure entertainment!

Kurt: Taking out the trash... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kurt: Taking out the trash was no in reference to a name being put on this site. It was in reference to the Metzger situation. Ah, I did not remove the names. Privacy policy states names are not to be posted on here. Whether it is real or not, it is a full name so, thus, was deleted.

Lurker: Ah, I don't recall a meltdown, at any time. Again, not my real name, but you can keep believing that in your own head. Again, just shows ignorance...

I just see a few ignorant people here with nothing better to do than comment about commenters with a continuation of Deb G. fascination. Pathetic really......now, what is pure entertainment is a few of you who think you know me, think that is my real name, but don't have a clue...... :-) sorry, but the real meltdown here is you folks obsessed with this constant bashing.....psychological meltdown LOL

Kuba: Met with drug dealer... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba: Met with drug dealers? Now, there is a new theory.....

Kurt and Lurker: Do you two have anything better to do than try to put down other folks on here? calling them names, lying, etc...???? Obviously not very good team players are you? Who cares who anyone on here is, who cares what Kuba posts or what I post. I am starting to think you are obsessed with defending Metzger or is it just that you can't play with others?? Again, this comment area/blog section/ post, etc...should provoke no ill feelings towards another on here as it is NOT directed toward you - just mere speculation of a media situation. Not a big deal really so get over who someone is, what someone does and what they post......

Let's try this: I'm a new anchor from FOX news, writing a story about Metzger, gathering info. I also had a bomb in my pocket, read a note, fell into a trance, was abducted and then escaped. Do you believe that? If you do or don't WHO CARES.....you folks are letting this area bother you WAY TOO MUCH.....

I have many theories about ... (Below threshold)
Julie:

I have many theories about Jill Metzger and this is why I come here. I theorize, politicize, socialize, and try to do a psuedo qualitative approach to: "What happened to Jill Metzger?"

The people in here are entertaining, witty, funny and sometimes emotional and angry with each other...but this personal thing with Deb G. really has to stop. I don't care what Deb has said or done to any of you but unless she has threatened you in some way and you need to take it to the owner of the board and get the authorities involved, I suggest you take the juvenile "I know your name," threats and bullying to another place, because that is exactly where it belongs.

I don't know Deb. I don't know Jill. But I DO KNOW I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF MY WORK DAY! And, it is my business who owns my computer.

Do you really want people threatening to put your name out on a board? Do you want people to find public information about you and spreading it around? Divorce record? Bankruptcy record? Arrest? DUI? Come on people, be mature. Who really cares who the heck Deb is? Is that why you are here? She sticks up for herself and you constantly target her because of it. Knock it off. Deb, don't let them bully you into going away.

Julie: Thanks for covering... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: Thanks for covering my back. I'm not going anywhere because I enjoy the updates on Metzger, unfortunately, reading through the Deb speculations and "I know who you are" games is in the way of some of the reading. I feel like you, the only entertaining part is the people who keep posting about me or to me, ludicrous really.

I remain totally calm, no meltdowns or whatever. These folks are making fools of themselves and they don't even see it.....completely immature. Little bullys on the playground.

Well, you see, Julie...way ... (Below threshold)
Kurt:

Well, you see, Julie...way back in the day (before your time), Deb claimed that she knew a commenter's IP address and full name and threatened (twice) to disclose both here on this website. Then last week, when her name was revealed after numerous insults to all and sundry, she threatened (once again) that she had the commenter's name and IP address and that they "should expect a couple of visitors soon". WTF is that? Anyone smarter than Deb would know that's a lie, but there are some real morons on this board who might've taken her seriously! So, I ask you, how come it is OK with you for Deb to bully and threaten with impunity?


The point is: Deb can't go around threatening people and not expect a little push-back. She started something she had no clue about. In her case, ignorance is not bliss.

The threats to "expose" Deb... (Below threshold)
DM:

The threats to "expose" Deb G. are getting a little creepy. The option of anonimity is an important factor in encouraging open discussion. We don't really know who we're talking to on this board or who may be reading it. Certainly those who would like to bring personal details to light would not want their own personal information shared with us all by someone with ill intent. The anonimity ensures that no one can be persecuted in "real life" for what they say here. No matter how much someone enjoys analyzing what Deb G. (or anyone) says, destroying her privacy is going too far.

The next person who thre... (Below threshold)

The next person who threatens to out another commenter, or starts speculating about someone's "real name," or identity is going to be banned. That goes for Kurt, Deb G., and everyone else.

If you volunteer that kind of information, that's another story, but I'm tired of cleaning up this shit. Play nice or I'll just shut it all down...

I had read about the IP add... (Below threshold)
Julie:

I had read about the IP address discussion. I can't comment on it at this time as I would have to go back and read it. I would have to say that it would probably have been not the best move on her part either...

Regardless of Deb's previous posts you guys just keep it up. What is wrong with this picture? What will cause you to relent? When she finally gives up and walks away from the board? Do you just enjoy her responses? YOU provoked her this time. And people keep provoking her. You can't let it go. Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people just need to move on.

Can people stay on topic...oh yeah, the topic is not Deb; it is Jill.

Sure, Kevin, whatever you s... (Below threshold)
Kurt:

Sure, Kevin, whatever you say. You're the boss. You can pull the plug whenever you want. Might be a good idea!

But, for the record, Deb did choose to reveal her own identity, it's only later after bad-mouthing others who didn't agree with her, that she regretted her stupidity.

Remember, she's posted all sorts of inane personal and family information here for everyone's boredom. She went so far as to post her Match.com info here for everyone, including directions on how to find her profile online. And she's tried to hook up privately with various military men on this board.

Those aren't exactly the actions of someone who doesn't want the attention.

Oh, and Julie? "Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people just need to move on." Everyone except Jill Metzger no doubt - she needs to fry! Right?

Kurt: Final - way back whe... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kurt: Final - way back when, someone posted they had hoped I would be kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered. I obtained the person who did that utilizing the IP address and computer forensics via our IT forensics/investigative department. However, as this site is truly merely a blog area to share theories, I stopped the process. After reviewing the Privacy Policy here, did not post the name. Now, any police department or government entity has the capability to find someone using an IP address. It is not hard for them. So, if I wanted to follow through on any of this ludicrous name revealing, I could. However,it is senseless and fruitless and means nothing. Seeing how that is not my REAL name, I really don't care. Just know though, people can be tracked back to IP address and so forth. This blog area should cause noone to reveal names or what not. Kurt, you sure hold a grudge, that was A LONG time ago and not something to bring up now.....let it go. There are other things to do than worry about anyone in here.

Kurt: For your own little ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kurt: For your own little record. I have NOT hooked up with ANYONE here on this board, especially military men. Against the rules for my job. So, sock it, because YOU are the clueless one......very clueless, and I have never posted my name here. YOU seem to have taken this way too personal. A bit angry aren't you??

Kurt,NOONE said Ji... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kurt,

NOONE said Jill Metzger had to fry. Noone. However, if she has lied to the government then she should be held accountable. Don't you think??? or would you just allow her to freely go about her usual daily business??

As far as you accusation of trying to hook up privately here - I would ask anyone on here whom I have tried to contact come forward and say this - noone can because it has never happened. I don't talk to anyone here - except a few woman, whom, have intelligence and great articulation and theories. Met 2 men whom I rarely keep in contact with, just military stuff. You have a sick bothered mind......

don't bad mouth others eith... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

don't bad mouth others either - re-read the posts, that perception is WAY OFF and I mean WAYYYYY OFF....there is no stupidity involved here other than those who relentlessly keep digging....

Julie: The IP address situation came up where someone came on threatening to reveal my name. It started with the first name and so on and a challenge to post a name I obtained WEEKS ago was put on the table. I read the privacy policy and then just realized "what am I doing", now stooping to their level and decided against posting it. I never threatened to reveal anyone for no reason, but hoping someone is kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered is a pretty darn good reason. I don't threaten people and again, this site is just no area to be doing stuff like this. Fruitless. I don't even live my daily life with insanity like this place can get. The only answer I have is some pretty miserable, irritated and annoyed folks sitting behind a computer. I might have responded too strongly at some points but only because the postings started to get ludicrous and now posting speculations of me which are so FAR OFF are insane. No big deal though - I know who I am and this place in no way shape of form defines my character, being or person....funny to watch though.

Kurt! Noooo, don't ... (Below threshold)
keep this blog alive!:

Kurt! Noooo, don't say that! Kevin can't pull the plug! We've got a betting pool going on for how many times Deb will add the word "really" to one of her statements: "silly really" (her fave), "pathetic really", "sad really", "psychotic really", etc, etc. Per post, mind you. Bonus points if she responds more than once! I've won $13.50 already - that's lunch right there!

Julie: Do we just enjoy her responses? Hell, yeah! There ain't nothing funnier than to see a 6'4" maintenence officer prance around saying, "You're so jealous! Silly, really!!"

PS: I posted this from work, and have it on good authority that Kurt did too.

Kurt: If you can point out ... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Kurt: If you can point out where I said for Jill to fry, the more power to you. People make mistakes. Some people verbally say the wrong thing at the wrong time. Some people screw up at work or with their kids. Others, more rarely, yet severely on the deviant end of the spectrum make mistakes that go against the rules and laws society have set up. Those people then find themselves engaged in the justice system involved with attorneys, judges, juries, etc., with other people determining their fate because of their mistake. Sometimes it is a "mistake." Sometimes it is a learning experience in life through which one can grow and mature. People who commit crimes deserve to be punished because they intended to commit the crime, cover up the crime, lie about the crime and so forth.

I speculate on Jill Metzger but I have not once said I think she should fry because of what she has done.

Unless she is crazy, she obviously risked her career, a career she worked hard to achieve and possibly marriage, not to mention international embarrassment to do whatever it was she was doing those 3 days. Obviously, she is unstable if she thought she could lie her way out of it.


Awwww,man! I just lost poi... (Below threshold)
keep this blog alive!:

Awwww,man! I just lost points for no "really" add-on, but gained double points for the quadruple posting, and a bonus for an "I really don't care." Not quite breaking even, but I'll get it back. We've got a new pairing to watch for: "fruitless...really".

Keep this blog alive: Glad... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Keep this blog alive: Glad to see you are making money off of my writing! Wonderful really (ha, more $). Wow, you must be truly bored! 6'4" maintenance officer?? LMAO - I do hope that was not referring to your speculation of what I might be? In that case, you are more stupid than I thought really (add more $). I think I will start a pool for how much money I could make on your reference to "points". Are you that ignorant or just that ignorant??????

Julie: I agree with the in... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: I agree with the instability reference. Way to many inconsistencies really (more $ for KTBA). The FBI might take a while to do their investigation and along with other government entities, the truth will come out......

Thanks for obliging, Deb - ... (Below threshold)
keep this blog alive!:

Thanks for obliging, Deb - I am now breaking even, though some of the guys think it's a gimme. Never fear, we'll hash it out.

And no, sweets, the 6'4" MO is not you, just a big, goofy guy imitating you. Nuances like parody, satire, and oblique references really do escape you entirely, don't they?

Runaway Bride Sues F... (Below threshold)
WillHeDoIt:


Runaway Bride Sues Former Fiance

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/10/runaway.bride.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

"LAWRENCEVILLE, Georgia (AP) -- The "runaway bride," who took off days before her lavish wedding in 2005, is suing her former fiance for $500,000, claiming he defrauded her out of her share of their assets, including a ladder, a gold sofa and gifts.

Jennifer Wilbanks is seeking $250,000 as her share of a home she says John C. Mason purchased through the partnership with proceeds from $500,000 received for selling their story to Regan Media in New York."....

Kurt, look! Another threat... (Below threshold)
keep this blog alive!:

Kurt, look! Another threat: "The FBI might take a while to do their investigation and along with other government entities..."

FBI??? Invesitagtion??? Government entities????!

Whooooo - JACKPOT, baby! The motor pool sweeps the winnings!

Awww, I'm just kiddin', Deb... (Below threshold)
keep this blog alive!:

Awww, I'm just kiddin', Deb.

The guys think I'm bein' too hard on you. We know what you're talking about.

.........hmmmmmI t... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

.........hmmmmm

I think I smell a dog in here..

I think this is Kurt's reas... (Below threshold)
Happy:

I think this is Kurt's reason for his threats:
"Sure, Kevin, whatever you say. You're the boss. You can pull the plug whenever you want. Might be a good idea!"
Fairly clever idea to come to a blog and voice threats in the hope of shutting us down; what will you do next, call in a threat to the FBI so they stop investigating Jill?
Get a life and concentrate on coping with the fact that your girl Jill is about to be revealed as a deceptive, attention-seeking hillbilly. These anti-Deb G posts are simply passive-aggressive outbursts which are a result of your disappointment in Jill Metzger. It is obvious you view Deb G as the spokesperson in the anti-Jill campaign and for that Deb should be proud; she was one of the first to raise the BS flag when Jill first went missing.
Nobody said Jill should fry...stop being so dramatic! And YOU call Deb emotional?

Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!
A few dogs....

Willhedoit: That was priceless.....can he sue her for defrauding him out of what he thought was his wife to be? who ended up being a fraud, fake abduction story and all? This will be interesting too!

Keep this blog alive: "nothing" escapes me, nothing....I find you FUNNY.

Happyyyyyyy: Where have yo... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Happyyyyyyy: Where have you been???????? We have missed you around here!

Deb:Business Trips a... (Below threshold)
Happy:

Deb:
Business Trips and lurking here when I have time.
GREAT news on the FBI investigation - just saw that article on Fox News, trying to catch up now.
Not looking good for our girl Jill : )

Dude, Deb nothing-escapes-m... (Below threshold)
lurker:

Dude, Deb nothing-escapes-me G. will never get your dog reference; you're gonna have to be a little more specific. Email it to her privately, so she can save some face.

Happy: Be careful... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Happy:

Be careful of hard objects being placed in any area of your clothing. DO NOT read anything on any piece of paper you find (careful of even those newspapers, ya just never know), practice combatives while on your business trip (ya never know when you might need to escape kidnappers in dark room) and most importantly, if you do not return to work on time, don't lie about it!!!

lurker: You are so clueles... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

lurker: You are so clueless - I will not even begin to explain - perhaps Wiz can if he is still in here....

For those of you who may be... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

For those of you who may be interested in some of the details of life in the "SandBox"... go read:

And for those of you who admire Jill Metzger so much, go read it too.. perhaps you will be able to get a slight perspective of why I have a disdain for this lying wench.. and those like her!!

Redhead Infidel... where are you when we need you???

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1543658-1,00.html

If lurker is who I think he... (Below threshold)
Grasshoppa:

If lurker is who I think he is, he doesn't need Wiz to explain a thing to him - unlike yourself, Deb. And unless Wiz isn't as bright as we think he is, then he knows exactly what I mean by that. I know you've made him slap himself in the head a few times.

Debbie, you are a very simple creature. Transparent and simple. You've gone everywhere we've led you, and it's been a lot of fun. You surprised us initially with how obtuse you are, and we quickly learned that you are nothing if not consistent. But, as you know, consistency leads to predictability, and predictability leads to boredom - so you'll have to excuse a few guys for trying to liven things up with petty bets. It's like a drinking game - but one they can do at work. It's harmless. Right? No one - least of all you - would ever be hurt or embarrassed by what has been written here. Right? Because you don't care, really. ($$)

By the way, don't flatter yourself needlessly with thinking how "obsessed" anyone is. We thought it would do you good to sample a little of your own medicine. You've slandered Major Metzger, her father, her mother, and her husband, all under the guise of not-so-anonymous speculation - wild, tawdry, nonsensical, sensationalistic, and malicious. No rumor was too small; no dirt too dirty. Drugs, sex, abortion, you wallowed through it all. Leading the charge, so to speak.

But wait - it's all so innocent, right? And everyone is doing it, right? You think you are free to do so because this is a blog; heaven forbid you actually have a modicum of class yourself.

Why do people direct their comments at you? Because you are the loudest, most verbose, most piercingly strident, most falsely authoritative, and least prudent commenter in here. That's why. No one is jealous of you. You are a caricature.

One of the ugliest things in human nature is to gloat at the downfall of another. It's called shadenfreude. You, Debbie, are pitifully full of it - as are many others in here.


Where's Redhead Infidel? S... (Below threshold)
delurked for good:

Where's Redhead Infidel? She's one of the top milbloggers out there, why would she dick around over here forever?

FYI That Marine letter ain't secret, fer pete's sake! Redhead posted it weeks ago, and the other milblogs picked it up soon after. She's probably the one that forwarded it to Time.com. But you liked it, eh? Looks like you two have something in common after all!

-------delurkedI'm... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

-------delurked

I'm sure that RedHead and I would have SOME things in common... However, Redhead 'likes' to be on the 'winning' side.

Her blog dropped Jill Metzger like a hot IED and kept it that way. Wonder why? hmmmmm....

My 'theory' is that Redhead Infidel would drop her own baby if it turned out to be a detriment to her milblogging ability... and that my friend is why she dropped Metzger in such a big hurry!!!

The Redhead Infidel was in here leading the pack of Cheerleaders like nobody else... then, suddenly from out of nowhere, including her own blog.. the posts stopped!!

That is indicative of a very serious character flaw!! I wouldn't want to be in her skin for anything in the world.

Redhead is in it for one thing and one thing only. Don't let any of her patriotic rhetoric fool you. Go ahead... check out her site. See how long it takes you to (1) find Metzger, and (2) find any of the rah!rah! posts that were on it previously. You won't find them. WHY?

To Thine Own Self Be True</... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

To Thine Own Self Be True

Yet here, Laertes! Aboard, aboard for shame!
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay'd for.
There ... my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in,
Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man;
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!

-- William Shakespeare

Wizbanger, I've read your s... (Below threshold)
Jim H.:

Wizbanger, I've read your stuff along the way and thought you were a pretty reasonable guy, though a bit flaky. But now I wonder.

As you suggested, I did a search for metzger posts on Redhead's blog and found the two original articles she wrote about the subject. It looks like she's posted about 100 articles since, so Metzger doesn't appear to be a mission for her like it is for you.

Your comments about Redhead are intensely personal - yet I venture to say you don't know her, and have never spoken to her. So why the intensity of your hatred? That really makes me see your behavior here on this blog in a whole new light.

But what I really don't get is why you say Redhead removed her posts on Metzger - and point that out as evidence of a "serious character flaw". They are both clearly still there. So why are you lying...or are you merely incompetent?

Most people have quickly moved on from this issue - even the bloggers here at Wizbang haven't touched it since. Is that evidence of their serious character flaws? There's all kind of news going on - gay scandals, nuke tests, upcoming elections. And there's been no real news on Metzger, just all the rumors swirling around here. So what should a blogger say about it? Report on every rumor as if it's fact? I think you need to step away and gain some perspective. You've already proven your judgment is flawed - no point in aggravating the offense.

Wizbanger - as you suggeste... (Below threshold)
Jim H.:

Wizbanger - as you suggested, I did a search for metzger on redhead's blog. So tell me, are you lying...or merely that incompetent?

Grasshoppa: (how fitting o... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Grasshoppa: (how fitting of a little green monster). Ya better go back to the more than 1400 posts here and clearly see I have not led any charge or posted terrible comments about Metzger and her family. I have posted theories along with others......people like YOU are pretty simple with ill intent towards people who mean nothing here. Bash someone here and then bash again when someone comments back. How ironically twisted is that? LOL You might say I am a caricature and how coincidence is that because those of us here who have something to being to the table of what this area is for think the same of people like YOU, well then, how sweet is that. You have not led me anywhere, you have led yourself on a path of relentless postings and believe it or not little green creature, YOUR defense to my responses are only to bash again because you have NO DEFENSE because you make no sense. Finally, for you tiny little illogical record: noone in here, especially myself, am not gloating at the downfall of another. Metzger caused her own downfall, her own actions, not mine or not those actions of anyone in here. Again, if you would LISTEN (I know it is hard, but try), I come in here to theorize about a situation, a betrayal of an AF Officer (whether it be Metzger or Mickey Mouse) to the military, our government, a foreign country, the world really, and RELATIONS.....I am CURIOUS as to the truth. I stated I was sticking to an abortion theory, did not state that IS WHAT HAPPENED, merely speculating. I do, however, hope she is punished if she has, in fact lied. I would hope you would too. If you do not, well then, you hold no integrity.

Lastly: How ironic of you to post about me on here. You do not like others to post about Metzger, yet, you bash my character not knowing anything about me and only speculating yet I am not the one who caused the START of this blog in the first place - remember Metzger?? Have you heard about her? If you had any moral fiber or clue in your body, you would not post about others and would not care about what others put here.....now go find a nice piece of yard to hop around in before I end up squishing you by accident. Would make a little green mess.

Wizbanger, since you feel s... (Below threshold)
dot:

Wizbanger, since you feel so strongly about Redhead Infidel that way, why don't you grab your balls and go over there and tell her yourself?

Will you be able to find the posts? Here's a tip: go to the search bar and type in "Metzger" and voila! Incompetence can no longer be your excuse.

Wiz: Don't let these fools... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: Don't let these fools spin around in here. They come in here with intent to try to shut this area down and get others to stop posting about Metzger. Kind of like those ludicrous people who go to funerals of soldiers and rant about war and rally during a family's grief from a fallen soldier or the crazy people who wanted to go to the Amish children's funerals and speak they deserved death. Taking out their anger on others for no apparent reason. I could go on, but just not worth it......

Well, I went to the hospital tonight to visit a friend who was nearly killed following a jump. Broken back, leg, crushed heal, broken arm, wrist, etc....stuff like that is important, the people posting back to commenters in here is just not important, entertaining, but not important...Came back in to see any new info. and the bashing continues. Hypocrites in here for sure. They get upset for comments posted and then post rudely to others who mean nothing - just like a protest from people who have no concept of the BIG PICTURE or the reality of what is REALLY GOING ON....

Dot: What is up with the c... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Dot: What is up with the comments? If someone does not like what someone says in here, just leave. It takes an angry person within to constantly comment about a commenter. Ludicrous. Wiz does not have to go to another area to tell someone how they feel, he is pretty secure with what he KNOWS and could care less if Redhead knows. He is merely relaying in here what is already known....

Jim H: In Wiz's defense, R... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Jim H: In Wiz's defense, Redhead has been in here and has said some rude comments to several people.

You write:

Your comments about Redhead are intensely personal - yet I venture to say you don't know her, and have never spoken to her. So why the intensity of your hatred? That really makes me see your behavior here on this blog in a whole new light.

Ya know, I feel the EXACT same way for folks posting here.

I recall Redhead in here. Point here is: this area is for speculating and tryig to figure out what happened to Metzger. It should not be an area for others to bash others here. I can assure you that I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone here has ill intent toward Metzger on a personal level, and that anything posted here is in relation to a situation the entire world is aware of. Kind of like global warming and the N. Korea Nuclear test and so on.....people comment about situations. Commenting about someone commenting is just ignorance. Responding to someone commenting about someone commenting is fun. Thank you for making this place fun....

And what's that, deb? What... (Below threshold)
dot:

And what's that, deb? What is Wizbanger relaying that is already known? What little he did relay was wrong, so what am I missing?

dot: Wiz is not wrong. I ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

dot: Wiz is not wrong. I have been in here to witness much said by Redhead. I have seen the lies, the brutal outbursts and so on.....Sorry, I am standing by Wiz. He has been one of the most fun and most intelligent bloggers/commenters in here. Always humor and reality in the content. I truly believe too many people in here take things way too personal. I have fun with it, Wiz has fun with it - even with people posting against us. The ones who are relentless with bashing folks in here like us don't have a clue of WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON.....

Out damn spot, Out!!!... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Out damn spot, Out!!!

--Shakesphere--

-------JimWell, hi... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

-------Jim

Well, hi Jimmy... nice of you to stop in. And, as Bartle & James would say.."I appreciate your Support" Now, let's go over your 'paper'..

As to my qualifications... I am capable of multi-tasking, that is, I can follow quite a number of things simultaneously.. you could say I've been trained in that.

First, I appreciate your approach on your post. Very nicely put, and for the casual observer, it may be a "GOOD ONE". But, first let me critique you on a couple of your less than astute observations.

1). Disdain, albeit a harse word, is not in the same category as HATRED. (more on that later) Furthermore, to couple your mis-quote with "intensity". Not good.. (you get an "F")

2). "Intensly personal" If you mean "directed toward a particular person", then yes, it is 'personal' and personal would suffice. Nevertheless, INTENSLY personal is a bad use of the English language..(You get a "C-")

3). "doesn't appear to be a mission for her.." At this point... you are absolutely correct.. (You get an "A") She has 'shifted' from her 'losing' position to one which will serve her better. It would appear that one who initially approached this issue with such fevor, would still be "in there" defending the cause. I'll leave it at that! A lot of fizzle... no substance!

"But what I really don't get is why you say Redhead removed her posts on Metzger - and point that out as evidence of a "serious character flaw". They are both clearly still there. So why are you lying...or are you merely incompetent?"

4). In answer to your question: I will give you the Discordian 'Mu'. (go look that up then sit and think about it for a while) Ahhh, on to your 'paper'...Another mis-quote, coupled with a Loaded Question, otherwise known as logical fallacy: (at this point I am tempted to fail you for the entire course!!!) However, I am confident that you have some promise.. just hang in there Jimmy.(Nevertheless, I am compelled to give you an 'F') Now, be a good boy, and re-read what I posted:

"The Redhead Infidel was in here leading the pack of Cheerleaders like nobody else... then, suddenly from out of nowhere, including her own blog.. the posts stopped!!

That is indicative of a very serious character flaw!! I wouldn't want to be in her skin for anything in the world."

I stand by what I said!! RedHead was in here hooping it up for a while.. then the tide turned.. and she went with it. Jimmy, if you have friends like RedHead...beware.. they're there only in good times. Furthermore, if you are so inclined, you may want to go back and match up the 'posts' and the departure times... you will may notice that they 'just happened' to occur at about the same time that something else was going on.. go on.. go figure that one out..

5). "You've already proven your judgment is flawed - no point in aggravating the offense." You're pushing it Jimmy.. But, let me say this. In very short order I came to my 'conclusion' on Jill Metzger. I believe it was within a couple of days actually. To date, Jill Metzger has not proven me wrong on my 'judgement' and I sertiously doubt that she will.

Despite your valiant effort to defend the RedHead Infidel, I will hold to my assessment of her. That, Jimmy boy, is my prerogative... as is the case with Jill Metzger. I won't bore you with other accounts of my 'judgement', from which I earn a good living, and enjoy doing.

The question now, Jimmy, is do you want my 'judgement' on you?

Class is over.

DM:"Kuba, I've rea... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

DM:

"Kuba, I've read through many posts regarding Metzger on the libertypost.org and was wondering - are you Idol Hanz?
Posted by: DM at October 10, 2006 09:59 AM"

Idol Hanz is Idol Hanz. He is American guy.
And Kuba is Kuba. He is Kyrgyz lad.

Should've noticed by now that by difference in usage of English between me and Idol Hanz. English is not my native language.
In fact, English is very foreign language for me.

Lurker:

You posted my posting out of the context. I was referencing to posting in www.libertypost.org

"Someone posted funny stuff on Metzger subject about Metzger's claims that she was robbed.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=158587

Silly female Air Force Major make big lie story--say she robbed by Kyrgyz bandit. But we see big diamond ring on hand! What you think--we fool? We no know value diamond ring? Who silly fool now! You ALL go home! You lose war, Kyrgz warlord laugh at you! You no understand Asia, you fool!

Posted by: Kuba Kyrgyz at October 9, 2006 07:46 AM "

Deb G:

It's really amazing, that how many people are trying to push you out of this board. Talk about agenda here. What are they up to? What they are trying to achieve?

Sorry, but for me the speci... (Below threshold)
johca:

Sorry, but for me the specific person doing the misconduct is nothing more than the identity of the person involved in situation and circumstance needing inquiry and corrective actions. Last I checked the USAF claims commitment to the following three core values. Integrity First, Service before self, Excellence in all we do. My concern is something needs to be done other than abandoning core values.

In regard to Integrity, it is more than Major Metzger's integrity being put into question by the situation and circumstances. In this regard the incident and current explanation puts into question the integrity of all holding a military commission.

There is a higher expected minimum moral character expected of those receiving a military commission. The expected moral competency is one of the reasons the requirement of a four year baccalaureate degree is a mandatory minimum qualification requirement for eligibility for appointment to hold a military commission. The higher moral cognitive ability is the presumed result of a higher education achievement.

My interest does not result from personal interest in her as a person, but rather in the person holding a military commission which is a legal instrument given to a person expected to bring high moral conduct and behavior into the execution of the duties of the military and who consequently should be held to higher standard for misconduct and criminal wrong doing the enlisted member of the military service. I believe misconduct of significant criminal nature occurred and my curiosity is of what moral courage will be shown pertinent to commitment to core values that top leaders say is important to them and me.

Out damn spot, Out!!!--Sha... (Below threshold)
johca:

Out damn spot, Out!!! --Shakesphere-- Posted by: Deb G.

LOL-the works of Shakespeare and other great writings were a mandatory requirement for graduating from high school several decades ago. When Lady Macbeth uttering it she was having an emotional and mental breakdown from guilt. She also had an obsession that caused her to goads her husband into to doing a deed she came to regret.

Are you hinting a need of a visit from those wearing the white jackets or perhaps of a vacation at the funny farm?

Wiz: Always a great respon... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: Always a great response. Shouldn't be needed, but great nonetheless.

Kuba: Insecurity, yes jealousy and an agenda. They say entertainment, however, the REAL people in here know those bashing others are the clowns.

johca: Without going into detail, I meant exactly that - however, the ones bashing others in here are acting like this....Relentless bashing, thinking it is entertaining, thinking they are getting folks like me rattled, but in reality, they look INSANE with ill intent and just never STOP simulating mental breakdown of not liking what people post in here - get it??? quite simple for intelligent minds.

Kuba: People post back to ... (Below threshold)
Deb G,.:

Kuba: People post back to me because they want a response. They don't realize how silly they look when I respond and then they or someone else responds again and then they comment about how I must care because I respond yet they are the ones who keep commenting - FUNNY STUFF! Like that whack a mole game, you hit one, another pops up, hit another one, another one pops up or like when you have a dog who does tricks - give him a treat and he will keep doing tricks! Seems I have trained some folks in here very well - good boys and girls. They think I am the funny one yet they look like the circus people provoked by ONE person they don't even know and way off topic from the Metzger situation. Posting directly to me about character is ignorant, when I post back, they can't take it and insinuate I should stop, poor kids, they don't like when the bully does not get his way. I come in here to check updates and get comments directed to me - simple answer: they are BORED and don't know how to participate in the class project so they divert attention to another alternative which they feel is easier to accomplish, really sad (does that count toward $ for KTBA because that was reversed?)....could be double "points"....geesh

Kuba: Lastly, people like ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba: Lastly, people like to jump on the band wagon and be with the "in" crowd. A true high school scenario. Some kids start beating up a kid and they don't even know why they are doing it, but others jump in because they think it is cool even though they have no real idea why they are doing it, most of the time they don't even know the kid. Well, the real courage comes from the kids who stick up for the kid getting beaten (maybe he has ugly glasses, or a big nose or getting into bigger things, his religion, being from a foreign country, etc...). It takes courage to step up and defend someone or disagree with others. It shows individuality, a strong will and courage. I don't really KNOW anyone in here, but I see those traits in people like you Kuba, and Julie, and Wizbanger Poster and anyone else who does not jump on the band wagon of bashing someone around them and then making games out of it, betting games and so forth. Now, if those who want to jump into the fight that they are not really sure of all the details, perhaps they should start at the beginning of these posts and read EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to realize where the conflict started. It is easier to joing the "gang", jump on the bandwagon and hang with the brutes because being an individual with courage is "dangerous" and if you look at any HERO in this world you will see those exact traits.....
As for the Metzger situation, well, she did that to herself and seeing how people like myself were worried about her when she went missing and checking daily to see if she had been found only to think we have now been lied to and deceived, I don't stand by this and know she was not truthful and I have the courage to stick to my opinion without joining the band wagon of others who think she just might have had that bomb in her pocket and followed a note enduced by a trance theory.....oh my, nearly forgot, do those of you bashing folks like us even know about this situation??? or do you just come into this area to act like small children and keep commenting about people like me and others in here??? I hope you realize how SMALL you look when you keep doing this......teeny tiny small....

and Happyyyyyyyyyyy - how c... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

and Happyyyyyyyyyyy - how could I forget happy!!

Did someone turn up the hea... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Did someone turn up the heat in here?

Those folks like the little green bug and ktba won't theorize on Metzger because they would rather try to go through old posts and find things to question everyone else about. It is their way to feel superior. Those who won't discuss the issues at hand but try to find flaws and inconsistencies in your posts rather than discussing Metzger are the ones with the dereliction of character.


Kuba:I like your h... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Kuba:

I like your heroin theory...Although, I know she would be tested for drugs in the military-It is also not all that uncommon for women to use heroin, cocaine and meth to get and/or stay skinny, especially if she wasn't able to keep up her running schedule @ Manas-She definitely wouldn't want to put on any pounds.

This could go back to my previous post that when she finally gives something up to the FBI, she then immediately enters a treatment facility (crisis management) and in a hushed manner is exited from the military. I am not military thus I don't know if, 1) is an addiction eligible for medical discharge 2) would this decrease her liability for her being AWOL, if she were high?

I still like the abortion theory but am throwing this out there.

Kuba,I was just cu... (Below threshold)
DM:

Kuba,

I was just curious. Your use of English is pretty good and Idol Hanz doesn't always sound like a native English speaker. To use an Idol Hanz post that is similar to that which was quoted above, it doesn't sound like he is an American, referring to the Kyrgyz as "we"...

"Silly girl Air Force major tell big lie story! She insult good Kyrgyz people! She go home now and take suitcase with her! She say Kyrgyz bandit robbed her but we see big diamond on hand! What you think, we stupid!? We no know value diamond! You Americans all go home now! You wreck Kyrgyz President Airplane last week! You American all walking and flying disaster, need new home! You send silly girl big lie story Major to fight war, now Kyrgyz warlord laugh at you! You lose war! You all go home now! We want money for airplane you wreck and damage for slander you make against good Kyrgyz people! You send big gas airplane that wreck into our airplane! We want new airplane now! You pack suitcase now. You 2 time charlie, you no good!

Idol Hanz posted on 2006-10-06 20:22:29 ET"

No new info. on Metzger tod... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

No new info. on Metzger today, dang. I will check back later....

Wiz: Just wanted to let you know that I have a very good "judgment" on you, based on intelligence, ability to breeze through conflict with humor, participation in debate, plausible deniability does not phase you and you understand it, intel tactics, reality and puzzles are part of your fiber, you defend others you feel should be defended (not just myself), standing your ground and opinions and always maintaining HUMOR. You are one of the, if not the best blogger in this comment/blog/post area....

Deb G:If talking t... (Below threshold)
DOD lurker:

Deb G:

If talking to you is anything like reading your writing then I sure as hell would need lot's of booze to be around you. You just can't shut up... when you reply, you do so in 4-8 bursts of the same old s#!t. 'silly really'. When you just go on and on and on, you just look 'tiny tiny small'.... blah, blah, blah. Oh, and 'jealous'. You really 'sound' crazy.

What made me post was your recent entry where you potray yourself and your "foxhole mates" as "heroes". Are you INSANE? Being a minority voice does not make you a hero. 'silly really'.

Wiz surely has great written communication skills and makes great arguments but, a "hero"? If so, its not due to his presence on the blog. Is Johca a hero? Assuming his PJ identiy is legit, then "yes"... but not because of his blog presence. Quit throwing around these words as if they are cliches... you destroy their value. Heroes don't need to proclaim thier status...nor do men and women who live by the creeds of honor, courage, etc. You rattle them off as if you just finished a novel or something. What about when you faked other identities to pump up "Deb G"? Then you want to preach to others?

There are several "guilty" parties in here BUT you are the target because of your BIG 'MOUTH'. You might be brilliant... a savant for all I know but the common sense train apparently left town without you.

If I were Wiz, I'd quietly start looking into a new foxhole before he gets pulled deeper into crazyville with mayor Deb.

BTW: does your argument mean that the posts from defenders of Jill are "heros"? It should, because they are certainly the minority on this blog. Oh, and I have read ALL of the posts.

Now... go find your long overdue meds. (How you EVER got into a sensitive job which would require a polygraph is well beyond me... you certainly lack the discretion needed with those positions).

If your persona on this blog is reflective of the real Deb G, then I'm confident that your weight is being pulled by more mature members within your unit.

Maybe this is old, but cons... (Below threshold)
DM:

Maybe this is old, but considering how slow the board has gotten in regards to Metzger, I'll take a chance on being boring. What are possible reasons for the US Embassy removing Metzger before local police were satisfied? I don't know what Manas is like, but some people on this board do - why not just take her there to provide her with the medical treatment she needed? I've wondered about this and wanted some opinions.

Come on, Idol Hanz is obvio... (Below threshold)
VR:

Come on, Idol Hanz is obviously an English speaker poking fun by pretending to be a Kyrgyz butchered-English-speaker. His syntax sounds more fakey Vietnamese than anything.

The use of illegal drugs in the military is a criminal offense, not a medical one. If someone comes up positive on a drug test, it's a legal matter and not a medical one. So to answer Julie's question: no, a drug addict wouldn't get a medical discharge. They'd get a dishonorable discharge. It would be REALLY hard to be a heroin addict in the military. Almost impossible. Random drug screens are done FREQUENTLY; an active duty member usually gets tapped for a urine sample once or twice a year and they're hard to cheat (an observer watches you pee into the cup).

VR- and a truly dedicated o... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

VR- and a truly dedicated observer will hold the cup for you! :)

just add some variety here while we wait for the verdict, errrr, climax (STS) of this cliffhanger:

here's a Jill Metzger FACTOID:

between her freshman and sophomore year in college, Jill's summer break job was at a bikini car wash in Myrtle Beach, SC. (no kidding).

Julie: Was just about to l... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: Was just about to leave and saw your post. Drug use to stay skinny? Great theory! Now, giving her some credit, would she be that insane or "stupid" to do that? Perhaps knowing she would be drug tested and most likely tested again at the Marathon?? yikes. Perhaps maybe even a drug to induce stamina and speed....on to something here....yup, I will stick to the abortion theory too, but one just never knows and crazier things have happened....Idol Hanz sounds Chinese to me.......

:-)

Deb G:I agree. Maa... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Deb G:

I agree. Maaaybee a performance enhancing drug but doubtful. Jill wouldn't need to worry about drug use for weight control. Remeber, she is a world class runner and doesn't face the same weight challenges that many of us might.

The abortion theory is where my bet is.

IKJ: I doubt the drug theo... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: I doubt the drug theory too, but at this point anything is possible. Staying on the abortion theory unless something else comes up more simple and better....

DOD lurker: Your comment pours of immaturity and character bashing. I have some thoughts on you as well, but I will hold them in as heck, I don't even know you nor do I believe you work for DOD. Big mouth? Ah, this is a comment area and my responses are to those with written comments about me as I cannot hear nor see a "big mouth". You make no sense and are clueless as you have no idea of the person I am and this comment area cannot possibly portray someone's true character. As far as a Hero, I am more familiar with what and who they are and consist of then you could probably even fathom and for you to believe or think I meant a serious HERO in regards to people posting here, then you are more well, stilly really (stupid) than you write....This is a comment area, which does not form a Hero in the true sense....DO YOU KNOW WHAT HUMOR AND REFLECTIVE WRITING IS? No, did not think so. I would imagine and hope most in here would know what I meant by referring to courage and a Hero in light sense....

IKJ: bikini wash? I can't... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: bikini wash? I can't help but think Metzger is really attention starved.....maybe the reasoning for training so hard at marathons and wanting to excel. Without bashing her family, perhaps she never did anything exactly good enough for her family, or mother or father or both????? leading to the cause of her recent actions....

Lets ask Kuba: What is Idol Hanz - Chinese, Vietnamese, Kryg with a bad accent???? help us out here...

Thanks VR: I am thinking t... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Thanks VR: I am thinking the drugs would be a pretty STUPID move on her part...but what possibility of going missing (other than actually being abducted) isn't stupid. I like the abortion theory best but if we could remove some of the culpability from Jill...

I know this was visited earlier...I could entertain the idea that she was raped and due to her position as a Major, woman, perhaps was drinking, etc., did not report it and that is how she wound up pregnant...or at least maybe this is how the story will go. A false accusation of rape, like Jennifer Wilbanks.

Bikini car wash? Did I read that right? *rubbing eyes*

oh and DOD lurker: mimicki... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

oh and DOD lurker: mimicking and imitation is the finest form of flattery so Thank You. Childish and immature to do, but Thank You - now, go find your own form of character and stop copying mine :-)

Or maybe she was just gifte... (Below threshold)
DM:

Or maybe she was just gifted with athleticism and drive and parents who encouraged success.

Deb G,This one is ... (Below threshold)
Jethrene:

Deb G,

This one is sung to the tune of the Beverly Hill-Billies....

Hmmmmm,
This is a story bout a gal named Jill,
Poor Officer trying keep the horses fed
Booted out her hubby for INFIDELTY..
Then axed why is everyone bashing me?

Fraud, waste abuse....

Next thang yuh know ole Debs a commenteer,
Happy, Julie & Wiz cry never leave here!
You our Metzger rumor CELEBRITY...
as Deb posts and comments from work with glee.

Ladies and Gentlemen,
The Metzger Hill-Billies!

as sung by sister Jethrene

Deb G:"As far as a... (Below threshold)
DOD Lurker:

Deb G:

"As far as a Hero, I am more familiar with what and who they are and consist of then you could probably even fathom..."

How?

"I don't even know you nor do I believe you work for DOD"

maybe I'm a SEAL, maybe a cook. maybe an artillery NCO, maybe an O-6. maybe a Marine or maybe AF too. maybe I'm in a polygraph required job, maybe not. heck, maybe "DOD" stands for "Donuts of Dallas". bottom line is this: if I AM in a sensitive or "heroic" position, I'm smart enough to not come onto the WWW to boast about it. I'm immature? funny...'really'.

I'm quite capable of reading things in context...let me repost your words. And, if this was indeed "humor and reflective" then your friends Wiz and Julie should be pissed that you apparently mocked them.

"I don't really KNOW anyone in here, but I see those traits in people like you Kuba, and Julie, and Wizbanger Poster and anyone else who does not jump on the band wagon of bashing someone around them and then making games out of it, betting games and so forth. Now, if those who want to jump into the fight that they are not really sure of all the details, perhaps they should start at the beginning of these posts and read EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to realize where the conflict started. It is easier to joing the "gang", jump on the bandwagon and hang with the brutes because being an individual with courage is "dangerous" and if you look at any HERO in this world you will see those exact traits....."

Now you go pretend to do something important at work like, oh I don't know, "defending my freedom"
(one of your older mantras) and I'll just go back to making the donuts.

DM: You are probably right... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: You are probably right. Seems her parents pushed her for success, but who really knows....if it was an abortion, could have been one wild night party on the 4th of July with one of the Marines she was flirting and squirting and then bang, she is an international story because of her lies.....Without the abduction story, this would never be where it has gotten.

Jeth: Wow, you certainly are bored and it didn't sound very good so, keep trying......flattering to attempt to write a ahh, err song? very poor attempt - clueless absolutely clueless...

DOD: Joker comes to mind. ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DOD: Joker comes to mind. I don't care who you are or what you do. Good one, trying to turn those against me in here LOL. You truly have no idea and cannot interpret writing. I admire the courage of Julie, Wiz, Happy, Kuba and several others in here. However, I am CERTAIN they are intelligent enough to know and understand that a medal for being a Hero does not come with the courage from a comment area like this. However, many a rea hero shows the type of courage for having individual thinking and not trying to be a part of a "band wagon" mentality. Get it??? Try to. I don't think you understand that things posted in here mean nothing to the reality of the daily lives of anyone in here.....silly really - ah, there is my personality trait coming out....imagine that, being individual.....

I don't like doughnuts, but I am glad you make them.....have you EVER heard of the phrase "time to make the doughnuts".....now, for anyone in here involved in certain areas of work, you would understand, for those who are not, then yes, that man on the Dunkin Doughnuts seems to come to mind....DOD, somebody's got to do it....

DEB G/S:"I don't l... (Below threshold)
DOD Lurker:

DEB G/S:

"I don't like doughnuts, but I am glad you make them.....have you EVER heard of the phrase "time to make the doughnuts".....now, for anyone in here involved in certain areas of work, you would understand, for those who are not, then yes, that man on the Dunkin Doughnuts seems to come to mind....DOD, somebody's got to do it...."

What the hell does that mean?

The current Air Force Times... (Below threshold)
Maj F:

The current Air Force Times issue has an article about Jill Metzger...her picture is even on the front page (in the top corner).
http://www.airforcetimes.com. Has anyone read what it is about? Although it is printed in hard copy, you have to be a member to read the electronic version.

The article is titled "Majo... (Below threshold)
Maj F:

The article is titled "Major Mystery"

Excerpt: Airman's father: 'They beat her up'
Maj. Jill Metzger, the Air Force personnel officer who went missing in Kyrgyzstan for three days last month, was kidnapped, beaten and tortured by her captors, her father said Sept. 28.

"I, Jill Metzger, do solemn... (Below threshold)
Julie:

"I, Jill Metzger, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

At the time she departed (perhaps willingly on surveillance camera) from her group she no longer was following orders from the President of the United States. She was no longer doing what she SWORE to do. She was no longer doing her job. She perhaps "willingly" (http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=39393&archive=true) departed from her group and is currently being investigated by the FBI because her story does not add up. The FBI is investigating her because there obviously something to be investigated. Again, it gives us something to "talk" about.

Are you still wondering why people are picking on Jill? This is a place for people to discuss the events surrounding "Jill's abduction." We are engaging in a discourse about it. We can't help that it appears that there wasn't an abduction.

This is more than about Jill...It is about an oath she took, her fellow comrades, her country and our relationships with other countries. It is not just about poor Jill and your disdain for the people here who want the truth to come out.

Easier to understand now or do I need to set it to music?

The previous post was to Je... (Below threshold)
Julie:

The previous post was to Jeth....

Jeth: I can give you a hint on why people are questioning the character of Ms. Metzger...She swore the following upon entering the USAF:

Maj F: Any info on the Gran... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Maj F: Any info on the Grand Jury?

DOD: I didn't think you wo... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DOD: I didn't think you would understand that. For security reasons, I will cease any explanation.

Julie: You're on it girl. ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: You're on it girl. PERFECT explanation. Much more than about Metzger on a personal level, this is about an international situation beyond the scope of just Metzger's being. The lies, the AF not saying anything, the AF taking her immediately out of the area, nothing being said to media after the media spread the word she was abducted - Manas being unable to leave base now, people WONDERING if the area is safe, the kryg people NOT being told anything as to whether or not there are kidnappers lurking around and on and on.....this is the reason why so many people have taken an interest in this....

If you don't want to follow an oath - don't go in the Army, if you don't want to get wet, don't go in the water, if you don't want to get burned, don't play with fire, if you don't want to make national and international attention, don't lie about being abducted.....

Deb-GAnd if I am a... (Below threshold)
Jethrene:

Deb-G

And if I am an officer in the army and like you, I guess I'll comment all day from my work computer on this blog. Then I'll just lie and say I never use my government computer.

I invite everyone to look at the times of DEBs postings. I wish I had you tough job. Where do I sign up?

You are a piece of work, The epitome of an Officer; No Integrity and and a REMF slacker in the office.

Shouldn't you be fighting a war or somthing?

OH I forgot your protecting my freedom...chortle...chortle...

Jethrene,

That is right, Deb. Good a... (Below threshold)
Julie:

That is right, Deb. Good addition...Well, Someone is in the hot seat now for playing with fire, she had gotten wet when she had worked in the bikini car wash and she did in fact take the oath. You sure did nail them all on the head! And, well the international news...again, good one!

Maj F, I'm interested too..... (Below threshold)
DM:

Maj F, I'm interested too...

Does anyone on here have access to the Air Force Times, either hard copy or online?

Just read the AF Times piec... (Below threshold)
AA:

Just read the AF Times piece.
- No new substantive information IMO
- Her dad says she won't talk much because she's so "traumatized"
- She was subpeonaed
- Testified at a federal grand jury on 5 Oct
- Article written as though she testified for court to issue indictment for some Kyrgyz person in absentia
- Her dad describes the internet chatter as "bogus junk"

Thanks AA... (Below threshold)
DM:

Thanks AA

AA left out a couple intere... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

AA left out a couple interesting tidbits --
her captors "beat her up real bad, had a rope around her neck, her face black and blue". He also said the rope left abrasions on her neck. She lost wheight during her ordeal -- went from 107 down to 90 pounds. After somehow escaping, ran for 7 hours through the countryside (estimated 35 to 40 miles).
"[The investigation is] not really about Jill. It's about diplomatic channels. It's about foreign relations, and she's just kind of caught in the middle right now."
Grand jury hearing is "to validate that she was abducted" so the Justice Dept can investigate in Kyrgyz.

Oh,and one more thing -- th... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Oh,and one more thing -- the article ends with
John Metzger said his daughter has no desire to be caught up in international diplomacy.
"Her words were, 'I want to be under the radar screen.'" he said.
"She doesn't want to deal with anyone right now except for her family."

ijosha - Thanks for the add... (Below threshold)
DM:

ijosha - Thanks for the additional info

Someone bring in Kuba!!! 1/... (Below threshold)
Right on Time:

Someone bring in Kuba!!! 1/2 the article was in revelation of our "rocky less than perfect" relations with the Kyrgyz people/govt. i.e. MEDIA NOT SO CLEVERLY SHIFTING FOCUS
Honestly--regardless of what the truth is the AF will vindicate this officer and/or it will quietly go away...under the radar screen so to speak.

Thanks AA and ijosha!... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Thanks AA and ijosha!

Just start a list of 'unexp... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Just start a list of 'unexplained' details and see how it all falls into place with 'dads' account: (cut and paste if you want)

a. 'pocket bomb'
b. observed on camera leaving alone
c. departure not witnessed by group
d. trance state
e. only 'one-like-it' abduction...

If I recall correctly, the ... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

If I recall correctly, the Kyrgyz Police said that Jill did not appear to have been beaten!!

But the woman at the house ... (Below threshold)
DM:

But the woman at the house where Metzger showed up said that her face was bruised.

To all conspiracy theorists... (Below threshold)
jethro:

To all conspiracy theorists & Maj Metzger Bashers;

What will you do and post if all your speculative theories are proven wrong?

Have you considered the impact of your posted comments on the military and Maj Metzgers family?

I welcome stones from those who have never made mistakes.

b/c I, for one, am certainly not perfect.

I hope the truth eventually comes out, either against MAJ Metzger, or for her.

OBTW Kuddos to AA for the impartial research minus the personal opinion and rumors.

Yes, there are several inco... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Yes, there are several inconsistencies in what was reported over the days of abuction/recovery. Another that has puzzled me regards her cellphone -- some said calls went unanswered to her phone, others said that call were from her phone prior to being turned off.

WizBanger: I've always tended to treat with a grain of salt item b in your list -- that may or may not be her (I'd like to hear testimony from her shopping companions that it looked like her, what she was carying, etc.), it is not clear to me that the person shown is actually leaving, and so forth. It would also sure be nice to see of the approximately 15 minutes she was there, the purported other instances where she was video'd, supposedly with the same male stranger nearby in three of those instances.

jethro: I in no way expressed personal opinion -- everything I said in the previous posts are quoted from the article. The only embelishments were to add italics and bold on the last statement.

ijosha,I don't und... (Below threshold)
jethro:

ijosha,

I don't understand your comment to me. I did not mention you by name. However I agree with your statement: " I in no way expressed personal opinion.

nuff said

jethro: Sorry, I guess I w... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

jethro: Sorry, I guess I was being overly sensitive, reacting to the fact that you gave kudos for impartiality to only AA (implying to me that you thought that I was not). I guess I've been reading the endless/childish dialog going on in here for WAY too long :-)

In the AA Article her fathe... (Below threshold)
PIPI:

In the AA Article her father may have said Jill was beaten badly, but when she returned home and had her picture on the Air Force website Her father was quoted as saying

"she is in good health and spirits and suffered only bruises on her face and blisters on her feet."

Deb G: since you were clam... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Deb G: since you were clamoring a while back for info about the honeymoon -- the AirForce.com article also had this to say

"Metzger's father said Sept. 28 that she was resting and recovering at her parents' home in Henerson, N.C.
"She's surviving," he said. "She's tough."
John Metzger also said the investigation is wearing on his daughter mentally.
"As tough as she is, she wants to forget about it," he said.
"She's still traumatized, the grilling she's been through with the investigators."

I summize from the above that that is where she/they've been, instead of Jamaica.

Just got home and nice to s... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Just got home and nice to see all the new thoughts.

Sticking with Wiz on the simplicity.

ijosha: Thanks for that info. as hard as it might have seemed sending it to one "clamoring". I doubted she had gone to Jamaica. You have to admit folks, while in Germany, she was quoted as saying that she was still going to run in the marathon. Now, suddenly, she is too traumatized to talk to anyone other than family, no marathon, no Jamaica. Have you ever thought that perhaps her higher ups have told her SHE CAN'T DO ANY OF THAT. Come on now, if she escaped and fought off a kidnapper, this would be broadcast all over the news stations - like Jessica Lynch being rescued and others surviving ambushes, etc....of course her family is going to defend her right now regardless of whether she was abducted or not.

Sorry, I am sticking with the abortion theory. Noone makes up that many stories with that many inconsistencies if they were truly abducted.

---------JethroI d... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

---------Jethro

I don't know how old you are, but if you can't recall this ask someone. It's June 12, 1994. Hot and Sunny day in Southern California. So hot and sunny, that Orenthal Simpson has had it! He goes to where his ex-wife is staying and has a field day.. We know him as OJ Simpson. It was later to be put into the infamous list of "Trial of The Century" cases. He was acquited On October 3, 1995,--- Simpson was found not guilty of the two murders.

I recall how he had 'trouble' when asked to put on 'the glove'. Waaahahaha... what a farce!!!

So, when it comes to 'proving anything 'wrong' - and I quote you:
--------------------
"What will you do and post if all your speculative theories are proven wrong?

Have you considered the impact of your posted comments on the military and Maj Metzgers family"
-------------------

Compared to the accomplishments of OJ Simpson, Jill Metzger is like Volkswagon Beetle sitting next to a Hummer! There is no comparison!

Heisman Trophy winner
Maxwell Award
College Football Hall of Fame

His running records!! Barry Saunders was the only one who could ever get there and it took almost 20 years for someone to get it.

I already said it, and I'm making no apologies for what I stated. She's a liar!! THERE WAS NO ABDUCTION. If you believe that, then please by all means, I think OJ has an outstanding debt to his ex-Inlaws.. something to the tune of $30Million. Go donate to a worthy cause... CAUSE he was 'PROVEN' not guilty!

Furthermore, the person you should be directing your comment to is Jill Metzger!! HAS SHE considered what the impact of her actions have been, are, and will be in the future.

No, my dear Jethro.. my theory will not be proven wrong, but I am quite certain that it will also not be proven true either. She will join the ranks of the infamous...

You see, I don't care what OJ accomplished in his lifetime... Yea, that was great, and I loved to watch him play football... BUT, verdict or not.. the guy is a murderer!! GET THAT? A murderer!!! So, whatever the 'verdict' with MAJOR Jill Metzger may turn out.. MY VERDICT was handed over many, many, moons ago!!!

Deb G: Not hard at all. I... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Deb G: Not hard at all. I only say "clamoring" because you queried about it at least three times in the past couple weeks. You also stated that you had heard from other source(s) that they had not gone... I just thought this might help confirm, for whatever it was worth.

Wiz: Never fails - you're ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: Never fails - you're the man....

Ditto on your thoughts

ijosha: Thanks for posting... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ijosha: Thanks for posting that. I know there is much hearsay that can run around so was not entirely sure. Not entirely sure of my abortion theory, but I'm sticking to it because of the pieces of a puzzle that fit firmly together right now.....

Jeth: LOL little fool. You have no idea where I am in the world or what I do or what computer I am on. How ironic, you are on here too commenting and finding time too make up ah songs and only bash others. Who cares what time I post or how often. Shouldn't you be doing something better with your time???? or are you that bored? like a child - look look everybody, the kid has a booger in his nose!

Perhaps some folks in here ... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Perhaps some folks in here could say some prayers tonight for a dear friend who lays in the hospital in bad shape. Broken in many areas of his body, including the back and spinal fracture, had surgery today and is NOT doing well.....
This comment area is a very small thought in our daily lives, stuff like someone nearly killed in a jump accident and hanging on to life is much much bigger than any negative or rude comments in here could possibly render emotion to. With that said, there are much more important things going on in this world than caring about anyone posting rudely to somone on this Wizbanger site.

oh and Jeth dear, yes, I have deployed for your freedom so you can bash others in here while friends and comrades die for you - hope you are enjoying it :-) people like us never give up on hoping people like you "get a clue" one day.

WizBanger Poster: While I ... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

WizBanger Poster: While I do have a feeling that she has much responsability for this mess, I do not rule out that she may have been subjected to some form of abuse -- to even include abduction. I only think it safe to say that her early account of what transpired is bogus.

ijosha: Are you saying tha... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ijosha: Are you saying that perhaps this is intel or something similar gone bad???? I have to say, there could be a small, very small, chance that she lied due to some type of drug induced state, whether it be abortion sedatives or whatever, maybe she panicked and made up the story without fully comprehending or realizing the magnitude of what she was about to start....

This is going to be interesting and I am overly curious as to what the truth will be.....I can frankly say, I have no other theory other than abortion, well, ONE other, but not going to broaden into that in here....

>oh and Jeth dear, yes, I h... (Below threshold)
Buster 2:

>oh and Jeth dear, yes, I have deployed for your freedom so you can bash others in here while friends and comrades die for you - hope you are enjoying it :-) people like us never give up on hoping people like you "get a clue" one day.

Deb - The whole defending freedom thing doesn't ring as true when you throw it in peoples faces. Tempting....yes, but don't stoop to their level just because they are dragging you through the mud.

Besides...Who's to say what a "clue" really is? Your comments perpetuate that the military sees themselves as "better" than the people they defend. I offer that that is not a good thing. Contempt is not far from that viewpoint.

Deb G: I say nothing of th... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Deb G: I say nothing of the sort -- Intel? Drug induced state? I have not seen anything to base such theories on. I only expressed my opinion that I find little to believe regarding the initial part of her situation as she allegedly presented it. I just feel that there isn't enough to go on (yet?), that one can totally rule out the rest of her story.

---------Deb C.Thi... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

---------Deb C.

Things start to unravel very quickly once any 'drug' thing is thrown into the mix. It's bad enough for a person who is under duress, (see wikpedia) but adding drugs to this concoction makes life a lot easier for the perp. Major Metzger is not entirely STUPID.. if one follows the line and notes all the little check marks, one can see that she is covering all the bases.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress

I not discounting any theor... (Below threshold)
Gh:

I not discounting any theories as of yet. But with the abortion scenario one would think her husband would be long gone by now.

Can the USAF make him stay silent until they make the findings public? Is he actually with her?

/*Lets ask Kuba: Wha... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
Lets ask Kuba: What is Idol Hanz - Chinese, Vietnamese, Kryg with a bad accent???? help us out here...
Deb G
*/

/*
DM
it doesn't sound like he is an American, referring to the Kyrgyz as "we"...

"Silly girl Air Force major tell big lie story! She insult good Kyrgyz people! She go home now and take suitcase with her! She say Kyrgyz bandit robbed her but we see big diamond on hand! What you think, we stupid!? We no know value diamond! You Americans all go home now! You wreck Kyrgyz President Airplane last week! You American all walking and flying disaster, need new home! You send silly girl big lie story Major to fight war, now Kyrgyz warlord laugh at you! You lose war! You all go home now! We want money for airplane you wreck and damage for slander you make against good Kyrgyz people! You send big gas airplane that wreck into our airplane! We want new airplane now! You pack suitcase now. You 2 time charlie, you no good!
*/

Idol Hanz is American, and he is native English speaker, I have no doubt on that. His fake Kyrgyz-English is awesome. :) And he is not Chinese or Vietnamese, he is WASP. I'm 99.99 percent sure on that.

"You send big gas airplane"
Was Idol Hanz European or British, he could have put it differently like "You send big petrol airplane"

Kuba.......... Privet!!... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Kuba.......... Privet!!

Yes, I met the test...I did... (Below threshold)
Buster 2:

Yes, I met the test...I did/have read all the posts to this point. More importantly...I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

It's been an interesting transition of viewpoint for myself. From concern to intrigue to disdain to outrage. All appear to have been misplaced...or not. After I slapped myself (figuratively), I thought about what really matters and tried to put this blog in context.

1. Jill Metzger is OK
2. It doesn't appear to be a universal threat to US troops
3. Nobody ...I mean the American Public, (except those on this blog), appears to care about the case (except for FBI below)
4. The Justice department will evaluate the merits of Jill's abducton

So, despite the "headline news" aspects of the Jill Metzger story, we are left with little to work with. This is an outstanding case study for viability of rumor as a function of ambiguity and importance. This formula is from Gordon Allport's book " The Psychology of Rumor." It is an outstanding study of rumor...but particularly during war (a separate discussion).

So, what do we "know," what is "conjecture," and what is "malicious?"

That has become my framework for discussion of this topic...

If Jill was beaten up badly... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

If Jill was beaten up badly, like her dad says, how she was able to strike her captor and able to run for miles? Something is wrong here.

Abductors, who were able to stick a credit card sized bomb in Jill's back pocket and induce a trance, would have come up with something more sophisticated than simple butchering.

Let's stick to abduction scenario for the time being...

Thousands of Peace Corps volunteers in Kyrgyzstan are at risk in Kyrgyzstan, if abduction did happen. They immediately should be moved to safe place, for the time being, say, to US airbase tent city. Is this happening? No. Why?

Why Jill refused to help Kyrgyz police to find her abductors? Now it's too late to search for them.

>Abductors, who were able t... (Below threshold)
Buster 2:

>Abductors, who were able to stick a credit card sized bomb in Jill's back pocket and induce a trance, would have come up with something more sophisticated than simple butchering.

>Why Jill refused to help Kyrgyz police to find her abductors? Now it's too late to search for them.

Just my uninformed thoughts: I do not know that Jill refused to help. I also do not believe that it is "too late" to catch abductors given good information.

IMHO: If Jill was abducted, the Kyrgyz govt should "bend over backward" to help solve the case and resolve any perception of threats to US troops despite any hurt feelings. However politics prevail, and I cannot assume to know the environment.

/*- Article written ... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgzy:

/*
- Article written as though she testified for court to issue indictment for some Kyrgyz person in absentia
*/

Who is that person? Surgeon? Abductor? Drug Dealer? More details on that one, please?

/*Just my uninformed... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
Just my uninformed thoughts: I do not know that Jill refused to help. I also do not believe that it is "too late" to catch abductors given good information.
*/

http://federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=82&sid=906543

A U.S. servicewoman who reappeared as mysteriously as she vanished gave confused accounts of her three-day absence and refused to make further statements after consulting with the U.S. Embassy, a Kyrgyz police official said Monday.

Metzger was flown out of Kyrgyzstan within a few hours of her reappearance and was admitted Sunday to a U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. There was no immediate word on what she was being treated for or how long she would remain hospitalized; officials had previously said she did not appear to have suffered serious injury during her disappearance.

Kyrgyz authorities have said her swift departure could impede their investigation, because they wanted to question her further to clarify her account. According to investigators, Metzger said an object with a note saying it was a bomb was placed in her pocket in a Bishkek department store and that she was kidnapped after following the note's instructions on where to go.

"It seemed to me that her testimony was little believable; she was confused in her evidence," Batmirza Dzhailobayev, head of the Kant police department, told The Associated Press.

"After she spoke with somebody from the embassy, she categorically refused to give testimony. Then people from the U.S. Embassy took her away," he said.

Someone please pinch me, am... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Someone please pinch me, am I dreaming this "Jill Metzger" story? Feels like that I am in trance.
Things getting surreal now. I am going to sew my back pocket up before I go to TSUM department store, I am afraid of back pocket bombs.
But why those bastard abductors not abducting anyone else? Why they were particularly unkind on Jill? Am I safe now? Maybe they are changing their minds and planning to abduct me right now?

The 10-16-2006 edition of h... (Below threshold)
johca:

The 10-16-2006 edition of he Air Force Times went to press at least a week ago. It was only on 6 October that it was disclosed a criminal investigation was being launched by the justice department and this announcement had a significant non-disclosures of any facts other than anonymous opinion of an investigator of the facts of the explanation don't add up with a subsequent statement of "If she was kidnapped in Bishkek, the investigation likely would be centered there." The absence of any official press release is more revealing of the depth of the possible scandal as the absence harms allow for speculation and even worse cause's uncertainty of any asserted explanation. It is much easier to maintain one's reputation for honesty than regain it once it has been lost. The lack of official press release strongly indicates extraordinary need to ensure correct information is given and to limit how much must be disclosed to verify it is correct, accurate, and complete.

So yes, I do consider the impact of my posted comments on the military and Major Metzger's family and I have no remorse or regret for the comments I chose to make. Honor pertains to self-control and self-discipline not to engage in certain types of acts. Unfortunately the incident included deeds done by a specific person that puts her honor and the honor of her familiy name into question. If it was abduction and escape as asserted, the lack of official confirmation that this is so and the explanation given is truthful is what is putting the honor of the Metzger family in question. My comments are only the symptom of lack of fairness in timely release of information. Yes I have made mistakes and will do so again, however I took and I take responsibility for my deeds of mistake.

Recent comments bring some new perspectives into the cause of what happened.

Working at a Bikini car wash has no relevance other than is it still in operation so this dirty old man can get his car washed there and if I can get a cheap thrill if I put the tip in the bikini. The willingness to wash a car in a bikini has no similarity and little relevance to the behavior involved in this situation unless certain other deeds were done having little to do with washing the car. It is not rarity to see scantly clad young girls working fund raising car washes.

Performance enhancing steroid use by a military member is as illegal and as punishable as using illegal drugs illegally. Not sure of what steroids are looked for in the urine samples, but do know such use is looked for in the samples collected. Length in service does not eliminate anybody from being a user of illegal recreational drugs and illegal steroids. A look at the misconduct separations will show users found in many ranks and grades and having served long time military obligations.


I found most interesting the assertion she lost 17 pounds during her disappearance, from 107 pounds to 90 pounds. My curiosity of this weight loss has little to do with the pregnancy speculation but rather to the claim she is in excellent physical health. More specifically her meeting healthy minimum weight standards for her height. A weight of 90 pounds is below minimum healthy height-weight standard suitable for military service. In fact her height would need to be between 58 inches and 64 inches for a maximum weight of 110 pounds to be considered a healthy minimum weight suitable for performing military duties. The weight of being 110 pounds further puts into question of claim she physically overpowered a guard sufficiently to prevent any conscious effort to sound the alarm of her escape or to pursue her.

"her captors "beat her up real bad, had a rope around her neck, her face black and blue". He also said the rope left abrasions on her neck." As responding paramedic to domestic violence crime scenes and many a bar fight-I see no evidence presented in photograph or official press release of "being beat up real bad. Rope abrasions around neck is very specific and the anatomy of the neck would reveal much on how exactly the abrasions were caused and the intent of using a rope in that manner. The weight of between 110 to 90 ponds indicate lack of body fat and consequently forceful trauma and rope around neck would leave significant signs. The continued absence of official confirmation such signs of injury were found indicates scandal.

I'm not throwing stones, but I am discussing most peculiar information that causes questions.

But why those bastard abduc... (Below threshold)
johca:

But why those bastard abductors not abducting anyone else? Why they were particularly unkind on Jill? Am I safe now? Maybe they are changing their minds and planning to abduct me right now?
Posted by: Kuba Kyrgyz

A scenario not suggested is the abduction was an act of personal vengeance otherwise known as work place violence.

This scenario would require that the Major in the performance of her duties or in her personal life had to take some sort of action against another that they would personally seek retribution for the wrong they believed was done to them. It would require the person she acted against being so upset over it that vengeance was wanted so they would either personally abduct her or pay others to do the deed.

Major Mitzger would have to have some direct connection of importance to the person making the decision to abduct her. The how, where, and when of the abduction has little suggesting being a random action of opportunity. Criminals do deeds for profit and social and political extremists do things to make statement or to gain something. No demand and no claim of group being responsible for the kidnapping. No official explanations, consequently the speculation.

----------JochaAll... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

----------Jocha

All the elements to this case are so - out of character - for any similar act that I know of. Not necessarily the act against Jill 'OJ' Metzger, but the entire episode!!!

It's as if someone were sitting somewhere with a scenario laid out to see if 'we' could point out all of the elements which are not 'real'.

It kinda reminds me of some of my early training. Scout out a situation and take notes on what is going on.. what's right and what's not - in order to prevent a potentially dangerous move...

It's uncanny!

Johca:"Working at ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Johca:

"Working at a Bikini car wash has no relevance..."

True, but so does ohhh 90%+ of all the posts in this topic area... to include many of yours. I didn't say or imply that it was relevant to this case but it does build upon the the big "R"... reputation that Jill apparently cared so much about. All it (the comment) was really intended to do was act as a "Factoid" that would hopefully distract the moronic bickering between "tweedle dee and tweedle dum".

Being heroic or demonstrati... (Below threshold)
johca:

Being heroic or demonstrating heroism is not being fearless; it is the purpose of the act and the willingness to do it despite serious pain, significant harm or risk to one's well-being or even one's life. The willingness to accomplish the extremely difficult and extraordinary despite serious pain, significant harm or risk to one's well-being or even one's life is the possession of courage.

Anonymously expressing opinion with no means of being held accountable has no similarity in deed to being heroic or need to possess courage. I perceive no dangers here as supposedly the conversation is assessment of the peculiarity of an incident and its situations and circumstances that are not similar to other known incidents.

Regarding the investigations into the abduction incident. Inquiry into personal responsibility for personal actions of Major Metzger cannot be avoided. She was either a voluntary or non-voluntary participant. If voluntary was it deliberate or spontaneous. If non-voluntary was any consequence under her control in those events happening with her ignorance or her being under duress. If it was with ignorance was her behavior such that she exercised no reasonable caution that would have allowed her to avoid being abducted.

What strikes me most contradictory is she lacked autonomy and self direction when a bomb and note found in pocket put her into a trance where she had no rational ability to control her actions. Then when drugged and apparently after being badly beaten she finds both self-direction and courage to physically overpower her capture or guard and then travel at night across terrain in an area she has never before seen. Being an accidental hero is possible; I just don't see the courage or the heroism in this explanation that makes it probable.

Johca:True, but so d... (Below threshold)
johca:

Johca:
True, but so does ohhh 90%+ of all the posts in this topic area... to include many of yours.
Posted by: IKJ
Perhaps--time, however, will tell. But shame comes with improper action and fear of ridicule and disapproval and remorse happens on recognizing action results in harms to others. I have confidence my comments have not harmed another and if I had fear of ridicule and disapproval I would not have made any comments to begin with.

A sage once said;"... (Below threshold)
O:

A sage once said;

"never argue with fools, bystanders won't know who is who"

ijosha: Was thinking you h... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ijosha: Was thinking you had a theory involving intel and/or drugs - sounded plausible and was looking forward to a new theory. I agree with you on not having enough to go by and knowing "medication" can induce garbled words and thoughts, the possibility is there. I also know that anesthesia can cause people to say some STRANGE things while under - even confessing secrets and making up stories so who knows. Even if there was no abortion and she was for some reason at some point kidnapped - she could have been given valium or some mental warbling drug which caused her story. I'm still sticking with the abortion theory and that holds no harm to anyone. It is just like trying to figure out why the Yankee Pictcher's plane just slammed into that highrise building - why did he take such a sharp turn into a large building? why was he in that location? why was he flying much lower than he should have been? why - people are just curious as to why some things happen - human nature. I am mostly curious as to the whys with Metzger because I was one of the fools in the world who said prayers for her safe return thinking she was abducted and worse things could have happened. Now. to think none of this might be true and I have been deceived and betrayed is enough to peak my mind to WHY....

Kuba: Thanks for the inter... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba: Thanks for the interpretation!!! Whatever he may be, Idol Hanz is pretty dang smart and well, right on point......

Johca: GREAT post.<p... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Johca: GREAT post.

Kuba: You're funny :-)

Wiz: There are so many elements here that are not real, thus, the intense curiosity, and I thought trying to figure out who shot JFK was challenging. I can picture folks from this blog, in a room, big conference table, putting together facts and pieces, taking pieces out, putting more in.....

"It's as if someone were si... (Below threshold)
DM:

"It's as if someone were sitting somewhere with a scenario laid out to see if 'we' could point out all of the elements which are not 'real'." - Wizbanger Poster

I find it interesting that so many people are questioning Metzger but none questioning the sources of the information. Where did the "shaved head/lying in a ditch" story come from? It must have come from somewhere official because it was relayed via the military to her husband and family. Who is the source of this story and why did they make it up? People (not all here, but most) are quick to rip apart the inconsistencies in Metzger's story but not so interested in questioning, for example, the different accounts between the Kyrgyz police and the woman who called them regarding the appearance of her face. I also don't see anyone jumping at my invitation to theorize about the Embassy's reasons to pull her out of Kyrgyzstan so quickly. Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story? Several people have stated in one way or another that this is a board for "discourse" and "discussion" as to what happened to Jill Metzger. And some people are actually engaged in a thoughful discourse. But for the most part it reads more like the transcript of a convention of amatuer trash novel writers.

O.K., DM -- I'll bite... Wh... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

O.K., DM -- I'll bite... Why do you suppose the Embassy had her pulled so quickly?

------OThat was Fe... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

------O

That was Felix Giordano, and he wasn't a sage, and you misquoted him... he said: "Never argue with an idiot. Bystanders won't know which is which."

He's a 'would be' artist from South Philly, probably suffered from BiPolar disorder - based on how he lived.

ijosha, I'll be honest at t... (Below threshold)
DM:

ijosha, I'll be honest at the risk of making myself vulnerable to alot of criticism - I don't know enough about the workings of the Embassy yet to form a theory (I'm not going to throw theories out there purely based on my imagination.) But there are some people here who have different experiences than I do, and I wonder what they think.

DM:Valid points...... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

DM:

Valid points.... there have been some posters on here with pretty rigid agendas (Kuba et al. Many folks initially ate up all the dirty rumours but when Kuba's anti American statements became more apparent, it quickly clouded his credibility with many... and that of his media sources too.

I can only guess that the Embassy folks wanted to get this high profile American citizen into US protection immediately and didn't want to expose her to Kyrgyz authorities. Perhaps there is no SOFA agreement or if there is, perhaps the SOFA agreement isn't favorable to Americans (military).

Perhaps the US Gov't has reason to believe that JM wouldn't receive due process if she were found to be involved in anything illegal... I don't know. It is common for the US to seek the authority to retain custody rights for issues dealing with AMCITS overseas.

----Deb C.My point... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

----Deb C.

My point in posting what I did...is simple... NONE of what happened makes any sense!! It's all too stupid to be real!

That's not to say that it didn't happen - just that 'how' things happened is all a tad bizzare!

What she did
What the Military did
What the Embassy did
What the Kyrgyz did

The protocol for all these agencies! Especially the Am Embassy does not include getting involved in civil or criminal situations!! Check out State Dept Web site.. you should be able to find it on there somewhere.

Wiz: Agreed. Too stupid t... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Wiz: Agreed. Too stupid to be real...

DM: You write: "Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story?".

Have you ever thought that is EXACTLY what Metzger did? Making up dirty little stories about abduction, bomb in pocket, note enducing trances, 3 men and a woman, overpowering a kidnapper and then asking for privacy after the entire world was praying for her??? Talk about dirty little secrets.......

Point blank: Her story stinks. There are many reasons for theories and people wondering why because she is NOT TALKING. Why on earth do you think the FBI got involved??? Because they DON'T BELIEVE HER.......and they are intelligent enough to know the depth of the damage she has done far beyond just to herself....

Perhaps if the Embassy cons... (Below threshold)
DM:

Perhaps if the Embassy considered any possibility that she could be rightfully or wrongfully arrested in Kyrgyzstan, they wanted to remove her. As far as I can see on the State Dept website, there is no prisoner transfer treaty with Kyrgyzstan http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/emergencies/emergencies_1200.html
Prisoner transfer treaties (or one would presume, the lack thereof) does apply to military personnel.

Deb G. You are entitled to... (Below threshold)
DM:

Deb G. You are entitled to not believe her story. But the abortion "discussion" is getting a little old so I'm just trying to drum up some conversation regarding other aspects of the story. You've said several times that Jill Metzger is not a person to you, rather a situation, yet you speak very little on anything other than Jill Metzger as a person. Funny how you slam me when I try to encourage "theorizing" about the Embassy's intentions or the differing accounts, but you praise Julie when she theorizes about drug use. It really seems like you would prefer to think the worst about Metzger and anything that is said that doesn't support that agenda is either not worth talking about or is worth, as I've said before, a good tongue-lashing. Why is that my suggestion of Jill telling the truth is so offensive to you, but I cannot be offended by your assertion that she is lying?

I find it interesting th... (Below threshold)
Johca:

I find it interesting that so many people are questioning Metzger but none questioning the sources of the information.

here is no doubt the initially relayed information was imperfect and inconclusive. Unfortunately 33-days later there are no subsequent sources of information and official confirmation or verification on the accuracy, completeness, and truthfulness of any of the information initially reported is lacking. Questioning the reliability of the sources of information is being done by official investigation into the matter.

Initial reports are no longer necessary for some facs as she was given a comprehensive medical examination or more and also underwent several debriefings where she had to explain all that she could remember of how she was abducted and how she came to be found where she was found. It has been 33-days and no official press release has confirmed or denied any beatings, bruises, cuts, abrasions, or any other trauma. It has been 33-days and no explanation of how she disappeared and subsequently reappeared 3-days later.

I don't see anyone jumping at my invitation to theorize about the Embassy's reasons to pull her out of Kyrgyzstan so quickly.

1. Lack of secure medical facility having the resource capability to do the required medical examinations and treatments, 2. Lack of debriefing capability, 3. To prevent the exploitation in propaganda programs designed to influence our national interest and military strategy, 4. Her explanation not making any sense, 5. Too much distraction keeping her at the Embassy or at Manas, 6. Lack of security and need to micro manage the crisis 7. Prevent possible criminal inquiry and subsequent punishment in the Kyrgyzstan court system because jurisdiction of the abduction happened was not DoD.

Johca, I appreciate your re... (Below threshold)
DM:

Johca, I appreciate your response.

(Just to clarify, when I said that "no one" was questioning the sources, I meant no one on this board).

DM: Whoa whoa and whoa. A... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: Whoa whoa and whoa. A bit sensitive, and I in no way am tongue lashing anyone for comments about Metzger and WELCOME them. Please re-read my comments to you. I more than welcomed and was looking forward to any embassy talk, however, you infer that folks here are writing amateur trash novels. So, don't expect to give theories and then bash others comments in that form without someone writing back in regards as to why we hold onto our theories - no matter how old it gets. YOU are the one tongue lashing. I am truly hoping some other info. comes along for different theories and I wish we had MORE of them. Nothing I say about the Metzger situation is on a personal level. You have to agree that her character goes hand in hand with actions. Look, I am trying to figure out what might have happened and until something better comes along and better pieces, I am holding onto my abortion theory. The whole bomb in pocket, trance, note thing is just old to me....Again, I enjoy differing accounts of what could be going on and that is the only reason I keep coming back here - to see if something NEW comes up. Just because I hold onto my abortion theory does not mean I am posting against you. I am merely stating, given the facts, I will maintain my own little theory because I don't feel there is anything better to go on right now. You can comment about anything you want. Stop taking this so personal. If you read comments here, you will see that I like other theories and CRAVE THEM. I did not even remark about THE EMBASSY comment.....

DM: For the record, I ques... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

DM: For the record, I question every source. There is so much information that can be twisted and I know that. I am aware that the media can twist info., that the Kryg gov. can twist info., that the Kryg people (including the family which found Metzger) can twist info., that the military can twist info., the civilians, and METZGER CAN TWIST INFO. TOO....However, given the small amount of actual "quotes" and info. directly from family interviews, etc...I have put together enough pieces to form the abortion theory. I have also seen a few emails, with my own eyes, which Metzger sent to someone outwardly humiliating an enlisted woman (calling her trash) and then sending this woman pictures of herself (Metzger) with the woman's fiancee. Now, I have THAT FACT for sure, have seen the email and the pictures. So, this is the reason I stick to the abortion theory. I don't know for sure if the 4th of July story was true, if the squirting Marines was true, or some other things, but what I know for a FACT is, indeed, true, is how I have come to my conclusion. However, I welcome any other theories to convince me otherwise.....

Mr. Johca:1. Lack ... (Below threshold)
What the Dell:

Mr. Johca:

1. Lack of secure medical facility having the resource capability to do the required medical examinations and treatments,

When a Victim or Perpetrator of a crime, and it could be that this person is one and the same, Local authorities have 'absolute' jurisdiction. Neither the Military, or the State Department can superimpose their authority. Unless of course this person has diplomatic immunity. All else considered, Kyrgyzstan officials could have/should have been allowed to hold her for their investigation.

2. Lack of debriefing capability,

That is not the responsibility of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.

3. To prevent the exploitation in propaganda programs designed to influence our national interest and military strategy,

Again, Americans on foreign soil, unless protected with diplomatic immunity, have no recourse.

4. Her explanation not making any sense,

All the more reason to hold her for an investigation, since she could be the 'perp'.

5. Too much distraction keeping her at the Embassy or at Manas,

Not a concern of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.

6. Lack of security and need to micro manage the crisis

Not a concern of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.

7. Prevent possible criminal inquiry and subsequent punishment in the Kyrgyzstan court system because jurisdiction of the abduction happened was not DoD.

BINGO!!!! The winner of an all expenses paid trip to Bishkek, the Republic of Kyrgyzstan, Central Asia is the astute and honorable Mr. Jocha...

This prize is non-transferable and must be claimed at the Kyrgyz Tours R Us office in the centre of Bishkek within 24 hours.

Ah Wiz :-)... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Ah Wiz :-)

I'm making a list and check... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

I'm making a list and checking it twice
just to check out who's been naughty and who's been nice...

"America national sport is called baseballs. It very similar to our sport, shurik, where we take dogs, shoot them in a field and then have a party.
Sacha Baron Cohen
As character Borat, Da Ali G Show"

Deb G. I just find it telli... (Below threshold)
DM:

Deb G. I just find it telling that of everything I wrote in that post, you pulled only ONE line out to respond ("Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story?") and didn't offer your thoughts on anything else. The purpose of the post was to get people talking about something new, and you've skipped out on that invitation. It further supports my belief that there are some here, including you, who prefer to focus on "the dirty little stories" as opposed to having intelligent conversation on the less scintilating, but still mysterious, points.

DM: In response to you bait... (Below threshold)
Julie:

DM: In response to you baiting me ;-)...I am kidding, of course...I would like to respond to the thought of the Embassy and/or military removing her from the country. I would submit that a civilian person visiting Krygyz with an identical chronicle as Jill would not have had equivalent protection and expeditious removal from the country. I posit that such civilian would be detained in the country and questioned by authorities rather than removed. Was it the military that protected her and moved her? Can't you imagine the conversations between different offices and levels about what to do "with her?"

What about this shaved head? Obviously someone made quite an error in their report to her dad. People think we spread rumors.


ya know DM, nothing I comme... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

ya know DM, nothing I commented about had anything to do in regards to YOU as a person or commenter here. Instead of saying "Have you", I should have said "Has anyone", which is what was meant. I was not putting down anything you said, merely pointing out that it goes both ways, people in here speculate and focus on NEGATIVE theories because obviously Metzger has done something NEGATIVE and is not willing to share the truth because obviously the truth is negative. If you want to believe she is not lying, fine. If I and about 98% of the world want to believe she is lying, fine. I don't have anything new to talk about because THERE IS NOTHING NEW - Metzger is not talking neither is the AF - that about says it: nothing NEW.....now, if her story did indeed happen: She would have been greeted like a HERO, with fans, like the rest of the military folks who have really been abducted/kidnapped, etc...I was listening to your Embassy post, but comments were made back and I listened to those as well. I have had people bash me in here and then have given them credit for their comments. I don't hold grudges and I know the real reason I as well as others are in here is to simply keep being curious and obsessed with WHAT REALLY HAPPENED....You keep bashing with you continued remarks about commenters such as "including you, who prefer to focus on "the dirty little stories" as opposed to having intelligent conversation on the less scintilating, but still mysterious, points". All of what Metzger says is mysterious. There are no dirty little stories, only the ones Metzger has made up. Theories and speculation go hand in hand when a human being, even an animal, even an object causes world attention and sympathy and then could be LYING.....your perceptions of comments always remain NEGATIVE and dark, because deep down inside, that is how you view this situation. I detach emotionally from Metzger and just look at facts. The facts in my 3 ring binder say: She is lying and the only sensible thing to me right now is well, abortion theory. Now, why do you think the Embassy might have whisked her away? Want to know my answer???? You might not like it though: because I think she was bleeding excessively from an abortion gone wrong, possibly perforated uterus and needed to get her to a more adapt medical facility to treat such an emergency situation. Along with peforation comes infection ad high fevers and if bad enough - death. Good enough reason for the embassy to take her out. She was ALERT enough to ask for the embassy (again hearsay, but I do believe it because that is who was contacted) knowing the assistance she would get to get her out of there, leaving the area would get her away from there. I ignored your embassy writing because I know you don't like my abortion theory, but you kept poking, so there it is.....

"your perceptions of commen... (Below threshold)
DM:

"your perceptions of comments always remain NEGATIVE and dark, because deep down inside, that is how you view this situation." - You're right - I view all of this slanderous talk of abortion and drugs and adultery very negatively.

"There are no dirty little stories, only the ones Metzger has made up." IF she made her story up. Does the whole situation make sense to me? No. Are we getting the whole picture? Certainly not. But I'm not ready to condemn her without more details. It's been implied that anyone who believes Metzger must be lacking intelligence or a strong sense of reality, so criticize me if you must, but that's where I stand.

By the way, thank you for responding to the Embassy question.

We have commented on this b... (Below threshold)
VR:

We have commented on this blog before about the possibility that the military and/or Jill's family may have had a pretty good idea what she was doing when she "disappeared". Recall how relaxed her parents seemed during that video made while she was missing. If she had clued in any friends on the shopping trip ("I have to go do an important errand, don't ask me what it is, I'll be back at the base later"), I'm sure they spilled their guts when she didn't show up at the base before the 10PM curfew. No one would have risked his/her career to protect a friend in a situation like that, and they must have been genuinely worried about her. If she had consulted a TCN (local Kyrgyz working at the base) about where to get an abortion, that person may have told someone what was going on when all the drama started. She may have told a family member (husband? sister?)by phone or e-mail what she was planning to do. The AF certainly figured out who she called from her cellphone at the store, and who she called from the payphone in Bishkek within a day of her disappearance. I doubt it was difficult to figure out her plan. This information may well have been relayed to the American Embassy during her disappearance so they were put "on alert" for her reappearance.

When she called the Embassy from the police station (again, an ODD thing for a military member to do, why didn't she call the base???), they may have already known this was a brewing disaster of a situation and advised her to keep her mouth shut. They whisked her out of country before the Kyrgyz justice system got wind of her reappearance. If the Kyrgyzstan justice system had had time, they probably WOULD have detained her. But the Bishkek police station probably didn't feel like they had the authority to lock her away when the military police came to pick her up.

I think the Embassy WOULD do the same for any American citizen over there, if the opportunity arose. Usually, though, the person committing a crime hasn't come to the Embassy's attention beforehand and it takes a while for the gears to turn. During that time, the Kyrgyz justice system has time to flex its muscle and hold the suspected criminal. In Jill's case, the wheels could have been pre-greased at the Embassy and they knew they had to get her the hell out of there fast.

Can't someone cut and past the AF Times article onto here? I am so curious about her father's statements. She RAN 35 miles through the countryside? WHY???? Is he telling me she didn't pass a single house for 35 miles to ask for help? What, is it like the Australian outback over there? She ran 35 miles after being severely beaten??? (Perhaps he wants us to think she went out to get in a little marathon training session, since she'd just spent 3 days tied to a chair, since she's so tough and all.)

I am just so surprised to realize that Jill has persisted in at least features of her original story. It makes me think that something bad probably DID happen to herat some point in her adventure, though the bomb in pocket/trance part of the story has got to be bogus.

I second VR's request - if ... (Below threshold)
DM:

I second VR's request - if someone could copy/paste or type the article in its entirety, I'm sure we would all appreciate the effort!

I see Jethrenes song & comm... (Below threshold)
jethro:

I see Jethrenes song & comments actually got you to stop posting from your USG computer yesterday afternoon.

To bad your back to your old habits today.

You said "who cares what time I post or how often?"

How about every officer in the DoD

You, Deb-G, are hypocrit with zero integrity and no professionalism.

You smugly point out Metzgers unprofessionalism but cannot realize your own.

I pity you.

Jethro: Jumping flipping b... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Jethro: Jumping flipping backflips. I dislike calling people names, but you are well, an idiot. I get out of work early, thus, am USUALLY not around after a certain time. Left even a bit earlier as have a friend in the hospital. USG computer??????? You sure about that??? Wow, you sure do speculate with no idea of what is going on. Good one. Jeth, you pity ponderer, you have no idea what a hypocrit means. I see your hatred via cyberspace, that, little one, is pitiful.....you are CLUELESS....and make NO SENSE....like a song would get anyone to walk away, perhaps YOU maybe, being the idiot you are,,,,,LMAO - I'm dancing to your speculations...you make me smile because you make a good fool....

Deb-GAs a U.S. Arm... (Below threshold)
jethro:

Deb-G

As a U.S. Army officer, which you have claimed to be,

are you actually trying to defend the fact that you comment on this blog site during normal duty hours?

What about the other military service members that have repeatedly infomed you of your FRAUDULENT SLACKER ways?

I guess they are all as clueless and stupid as I.

Go ahead defend your use of USG comupters on the www.

Let the whole world know what officers like you do all day.

You probaly don't even realize that your comments drag the reputation of real officers and soldiers through the mud.

The times of your comments are evidence enough.

You are guilty dear, its time to stop the charade and apologize.


Jeth sweetie: you are real... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Jeth sweetie: you are really "stupid" I think this is the first time I nearly fell off my chair laughing at your speculations and comments. You don't even realize the depth of your post to the realm of ignorance you just portrayed. I theorize about a situation, have a high respect for military officers, enlisted, civilians, heck, everyone around me. I do NOT have respect for officers who take an oath, lie and deceive the world......now go find the funny farm you came from... why do you care so much about what I do??? there are some serious crimes going on in this world, terrorists galore, go find them and preach as to what they are doing wrong, but careful Jeth, because once you do, you're dead wrong yourself, very dead.

Deb-G,I care so mu... (Below threshold)
jethro:

Deb-G,

I care so much because I pay taxes i.e. your paycheck.

I don't think an army officer should be using USG computers and government time OBTW you do realize that you are a soldier 24/7?

I guess not.

You are worse than Metzger. You are guilty of fraud waste and abuse of USG property. Your comments prove this.

Metzger is still innocent until proven guilty.

Chew on that one for a while.

Deb-G,Since you ar... (Below threshold)
jethro:

Deb-G,

Since you are an officer did't you take an oath?

As part of that are you allowed to commit FRAUD WASTE AND ABUSE (FWA)?

I thought officers were not allowed to tolerate FWA.

Life must be tough for you, as you obviously cannot tolerate yourself.

Deb-G,Oh I forgot.... (Below threshold)
jethro:

Deb-G,

Oh I forgot...only other officers cannot commit FWA..........
your exempt!

WAAAHHHHHH

jethro and Deb G....please ... (Below threshold)
seeking info:

jethro and Deb G....please stop bashing each other...what is the latest info on Major Jill?

What the Dell, I certainly ... (Below threshold)
Johca:

What the Dell, I certainly can not dispute the perspective of your reply, but in defense to how I constructed my comment it was in response to Embassy's reasons for moving Major Metzger out of country and not Kyrgyzstan government's or local law enforcement reasons. However, I can disagree slightly with "Americans on foreign soil, unless protected with diplomatic immunity, have no recourse." This may or may not be true for military personnel assigned in country depending upon the situation and circumstances. Unfortunately I do not know specifics of any Status of Forces or other agreements in place between U.S. and Kyrgyzstan government pertinent to military forces assigned duties at Manus.

Typically however an agreement is made on how to deal with members of the United States military who break the law and do criminal wrong doings in country. Even so, this is part of the significant dilemma of this case as situation was being dealt with as Major Metzger being a victim of a crime rather than perhaps the probability she was a person trying to cover up something. The probable deception unfortunately involved claim of kidnapping in a location that it significantly embarrasses two governments and is such that it can be considered an act of fraud against the government, if the abduction and escape is discovered to be a deception to conceal something she decided to do to resolve a personal need and even more so if it included treatment for a medical condition caused by misconduct.

The problem with Major Metzger's disappearance and reappearances is she was deployed to an imminent danger pay location and this restricted her movements off of installation and duration of her absences from her duties. Presuming her disappearance was for her personal needs, she could have done what she needed successfully at any other not deployed to support combat operations location and at worse might have to take a minor disciplinary (not punitive) action for an unexplained unauthorized absence. It is the complexity of what results from the probable deception that has my interest and the what happens to Major Metzger is only about a quarter of my fascination with this incident.

Ya know Jeth, you're a real... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Ya know Jeth, you're a real "joke". Funny to see you MAD over a cyber person! No, YOU cannot tolerate me. I'm fine with myself. However, I do find it psychotic that you keep posting info. that you think you know about me and have NO clue....you don't know who I am, where I am, what I do, what computer I am on. I could be on vacation, TDY, leave, deployed....I laugh HARD when you post about all these things I am doing wrong then see the right in the real topic in here....laugh my flipping cartwheeling butt off!

You are so ugly inside, you dont' deserve a response to me and certainly not a thought out one, so, I will just settle with, you are a tiny little clueless fool.....and REALLY STUPID TO THINK METZGER COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH.....hey, be careful for bombs being put in your back pocket......pathetic

I am starting to think Jeth... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

I am starting to think Jethro is Jill Metzger!!!

Jill, is that YOU????? Come on Jeth/Jill tell us the TRUTH.

Now don't be "mad", we all pay taxes too and even though you are clueless, perhaps find some room to tell us your version of what really happened during those days.....

I am starting to think Jeth... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

I am starting to think Jethro is Jill Metzger!!!

Jill, is that YOU????? Come on Jeth/Jill tell us the TRUTH.

Now don't be "mad", we all pay taxes too and even though you are clueless, perhaps find some room to tell us your version of what really happened during those days.....

Jeth: Throwing in some hum... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Jeth: Throwing in some humor: Now, under your own demanding words - aren't I not innocent until proven guilty?? hmm, I say something and you immediately speculate and theorize about me, wow, amazingly like the Metzger situation. She says things and people speculate and theorize and put together the puzzle - wow! So, I say things and you speculate about me and put together some strange puzzle - wow! FUN! So, perhaps you should PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH because HILLBILLY GIRLIE, in your own words - I'm innocent until proven guilty! :-) FUN! So, before you have the REAL FACTS, think before you speak...

"Valid points.... th... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

"
Valid points.... there have been some posters on here with pretty rigid agendas (Kuba et al. Many folks initially ate up all the dirty rumours but when Kuba's anti American statements became more apparent, it quickly clouded his credibility with many... and that of his media sources too.

I can only guess that the Embassy folks wanted to get this high profile American citizen into US protection immediately and didn't want to expose her to Kyrgyz authorities. Perhaps there is no SOFA agreement or if there is, perhaps the SOFA agreement isn't favorable to Americans (military).

Perhaps the US Gov't has reason to believe that JM wouldn't receive due process if she were found to be involved in anything illegal... I don't know. It is common for the US to seek the authority to retain custody rights for issues dealing with AMCITS overseas.

Posted by: IKJ at October 12, 2006 11:25 AM
"

There is nothing wee bit wrong with me. Yes, I started abortion rumors because I heard them in Bishkek. I reported here about those rumors. Rumors fill in information vacuum. Abortion seem to be explaining many inconsistencies in JM story.
How that can be anti American? IKJ, if you have alternative explanation, come on, smite me with factual evidence.

Info on SOFA agreement betw... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Info on SOFA agreement between Kyrgyzstan and US:

All US Military personnel in Manas airbase enjoy diplomatic immunity under Kyrgyz-US treaty.

There were several cases of drink and driving by US Military personnel 3-4 years ago, resulting in number of pedestrians in Bishkek being killed and injured.

US Embassy quickly moved militaries out of the crime scene to Germany.

Since then, regulations were imposed in Manas airbase that no US Military personnel allowed to drive vehicles in Kyrgyzstan outside of airbase by themselves. Instead, they all have to hire local drivers now.

Kyrgyz police could no way force Jill Metzger to stay. Because, she was protected under status of diplomatic immunity. It was her and US embassie's choice to help or not to help to Kyrgyz police to find her alleged abductors.

After Jill Metzger's case Kyrgyz Government is considering to revoke the status of diplomatic immunity from US military personnel, because of legal complications that is causing, as far as I know.

Kuba, any agreements entere... (Below threshold)
johca:

Kuba, any agreements entered into pertinent to the status of military members in a hosting country fall short of providing diplomatic immunity. Immunity is incorrect as depending on the severity of the crime and whether it happens on installation or off installation determines how the host nation agrees to allow it to be dealt with. The host nation typically expects the right thing be done pertinent to criminal justice being served.

Immunity especially diplomatic immunity is too strong of a descriptor as military members are not diplomats and are not given immunity from wrong doing, especially criminal wrong doing. However, it does not surprise me if current agreements are under hosting nation revision consideration as result of the Major Metzger incident.

johca / Kuba --I h... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

johca / Kuba --

I haven't found the contents of the US / Kyrgyzstan SOFA, but it is astonishing what they've agreed to with other countries like South Korea and Australia. Here's an excerpt from the Australian SOFA:

Obligations

12. The proposed Agreement provides that Australian personnel are accorded a status equivalent to that of `administrative and technical staff' under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations1961. Accordingly, and in addition to the express terms of the Agreement, the Kyrgyz republic shall afford Australian personnel the privileges and immunities due to them under that Convention. These include the following key matters:

* Members shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention;

* The receiving State shall treat members with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on the members person, freedom or dignity;

* Immunity from criminal jurisdiction;

* Immunity from civil jurisdiction in certain circumstances;

* Exemption from most taxes, in particular any taxes on salary;

* Exemption from compulsory military service in the receiving State;

* Exemption from certain customs duties, taxes and related charges;

13. The Agreement sets out conditions concerning the rights of ADF personnel and their access to facilities when in the Kyrgyz Republic. These conditions include the following matters:

* Entry and exit

* ADF personnel shall be permitted to enter and exit the Kyrgyz Republic with Australian identification and with collective movement or individual travel orders.

* Driving licences and laws

* The Kyrgyz Republic shall accept as valid, without a driving fee or test, driving licenses or permits issued by appropriate Australian authorities for the operation of vehicles.

* Wearing of Uniforms and Carriage of arms

* ADF personnel are permitted to wear their uniforms while performing official duties.

* ADF personnel are authorized to possess and carry arms in accordance with their orders.

Great info find ijosha.... (Below threshold)
johca:

Great info find ijosha.

Immunity from criminal jurisdiction does not bring with it immunity from criminal justice corrective actions for doing the criminal deed. It just identifies who has jurisdiction and responsibility to charge a person with a criminal offense, prosecute the person, and if evidence demonstrates quilt convict and punish appropriately. The immunity from jurisdiction brings with it and imposes on the United States Government a significant moral and legal obligation to make better the wrong the best it can to the victims. Such incidents involving immunity from criminal jurisdiction also brings with it potential of much political change and thus immunity from jurisdiction often fails to bring with it immunity from criminal justice corrective and punitive action.

In previous comment disclosed what I thought the most probable offenses as identified in the Manual for Courts Martial. It will be most interesting to see which offenses are actually charged and prosecuted.

Appropriate UCMJ articles appear to be:
Article 86 Unauthorized Absence
Article 92 Failure to Obey Order or Regulation
Article 107 False Official Statements
Article 133 Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer and a Gentleman
Article 134 Adultery
Article 134 False Swearing
Article 134 Fraternization (may or may not be applicable-just can not be ruled out)
Article 134 Self Injury without intent to avoid service

Cheers to you ijosha for th... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Cheers to you ijosha for that info.

Johca - I'll explain more on situation with diplomatic immunity thing.

Kyrgyzstan was already a member of Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), and Collective Security Treaty Organization (military bloc), which included Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, China, etc., when USA asked Kyrgyzstan for a land for airbase for anti terror campaign.

Kyrgyzstan was already bound by terms of Collective Security Treaty Organization, or Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) treaty terms, that Kyrgystan is bound to have only military bases of participant countries of Collective Security Treaty Organization and SCO.

As a workaround, US suggested to Kyrgyzstan US military personnel to be accounted as members of US Diplomatic Service staff.

Hence, Diplomatic Immunity to all personnel in US airbase.

Some Info:Collecti... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Some Info:

Collective Security Treaty Organization

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization

http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/OpEd/050906_oxford.html

Shanghai Cooperation Organization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organization

Kuba--great info. I was aw... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Kuba--great info. I was aware of some of this but had not realized what else it impacted and influenced. Certainly-so indicates how much more complicated than just a series personal misfortunate events this incident is.

Kuba, ijosha & johca: Grea... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Kuba, ijosha & johca: Great info. and comments.

Been away for a while and s... (Below threshold)
Shrink:

Been away for a while and sounds like not much new on the issue.

Anyone know where the Grand Jury JM supposedly testified before was (DC, Atlanta, etc)?

Anyone know if her DH is with her and Mom/Dad or back in FL?

Just curious.

Shrink: I was wondering sam... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Shrink: I was wondering same about DH-Is he back to work or still off? And, I thought Jill was to be returning to work (accordng to Stars and Stripes 9/27/06 article) sometime in early October. I wonder if she is returning while she is being investigated by the FBI or if they will wait until it quietly goes away?

Any thoughts?

She will probably have a pr... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

She will probably have a profile when she returns to work... PULHES=211114

Can't imagine where they're going to 'stick' her?

My "source" says that JM is... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

My "source" says that JM is not on leave any longer... so, I 'guess' she's at work in some capacity or another.

Oh, btw: her duty title (as of about 2 weeks ago) was removed. I think she WAS the MPF commander at Moody. MPF= Military Personnel Flight.

In all fairness, she might have been slated to move from that position to another spot in the Squadron or Group anyway. It's common to have a few jobs during one tour at a base.

Just a cut and paste from t... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Just a cut and paste from the MCM. If misconduct caused a medical condition and pursuing medical treatment from an unapproved source of medical care resulted in further misconduct, it would be most interesting on explanation of why or why not this offense was not charged and prosecuted. Not to mention why or why not a line of duty deternination was not done pertient to the medical condition and treatment not obtained through primary medical care providor coordination and approval.

103a. Article 134--(Self-injury without intent
to avoid service)
a. Text. See paragraph 60.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused intentionally inflicted injury
upon himself or herself;
(2) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
[Note: If the offense was committed in time of war or in a hostile fire pay zone, add the following element]
(3) That the offense was committed (in time of war) (in a hostile fire pay zone).
c. Explanation.
(1) Nature of offense. This offense differs from malingering (see paragraph 40) in that for this offense, the accused need not have harbored a design to avoid performance of any work, duty, or service which may properly or normally be expected of one in the military service. This offense is characterized by intentional self-injury under such circumstances as prejudice good order and discipline or discredit the armed forces. It is not required that the accused be unable to perform duties, or that the accused actually be absent from his or her place of duty as a result of the injury. For example, the accused may inflict the injury while on leave or pass. The circumstances and extent of injury, however, are relevant to a determination that the accused's conduct was prejudicial to good order and discipline, or service-discrediting.
(2) How injury inflicted. The injury may be inflicted by nonviolent as well as by violent means and may be accomplished by any act or omission that produces, prolongs, or aggravates a sickness or disability. Thus, voluntary starvation that results in a debility is a self-inflicted injury. Similarly, the injury may be inflicted by another at the accused's request.
d. Lesser included offense. Article 80--attempts
e. Maximum punishment.
(1) Intentional self-inflicted injury. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
(2) Intentional self-inflicted injury in time of war or in hostile fire pay zone. Dishonorable discharge forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.
f. Sample specification.
In that (personal jurisdiction
data), did, (at/on board--location) (in a hostile fire pay zone) on or about ___________ (a time of war, ) intentionally injured himself/herself by (nature and circumstances of injury).

Doc: What is "PULHES=21111... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Doc: What is "PULHES=211114"? Is is some sort of PC3 code?

Yes, DocHolidaze's profile ... (Below threshold)
VR:

Yes, DocHolidaze's profile assessment is interesting and probably right. Jill will be "4T" probably with the "4" coming under the psychiatric part of the profile. She's probably still undergoing evaluation and treatment for her "post-traumatic stress". I doubt she has a formal psychiatric diagnosis at this point. 4T status would not allow her to deploy world-wide; she'd have to stay in the CONUS. She can remain in 4T status up to a year before a medical board to determine her continued fitness to serve would be REQUIRED.

ijosha, johca, and Kuba - t... (Below threshold)
DM:

ijosha, johca, and Kuba - that's great information!

If Metzger is suffering from serious trauma as her father said, they probably won't let her back to work until she seems psychologically fit to do so.

Don't know where the grand jury was held, but Fox News reported that the "the center of the investigation appears to be the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Virginia in Alexandria".

P= physical problemU... (Below threshold)
VR:

P= physical problem
U= upper extremity problem
L= lower extremity problem
H= hearing problem
E= eyes problem
S= psychiatic problem
A score of "1" means there is no problem in this area. "2" is a minor problem that doesn't affect duty. "3" is a moderate problem that affects duty in some way. "4" is a severe problem that will not allow member to perform duty so as to be world-wide qualified.

PULHES is the acronym for t... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

PULHES is the acronym for the Military Physical Profile Serial System.

Each letter stands for body system with S being psych. Numbers are assigned to each category based on the physical limitations a person may have. I believe 4 is threshold. 1 being topfit..

P= Gen Physical
U= Upper extremities
L= Lower extremities
H= Hearing
E= Eyes
S= Psych

Doc: What is "PULHES=21111... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Doc: What is "PULHES=211114"? Is is some sort of PC3 code?
Author: IKJ

PULHES is known as physical profile. It is a 1 to 4 rating in each area. 1 is best and 4 is worst. A '4' in any area is medically unfit for medical service.

P=Physical capacity or stamina
U=Upper extremities
L=Lower extremities
H=Hearing
E=Eyes
S=Psychiatric

Well... nothing like having... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

Well... nothing like having two of everything!

Make that THREE of everythi... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

Make that THREE of everything!!!

wrote that before I saw IKJ... (Below threshold)
DM:

wrote that before I saw IKJ's posting that she wasn't on leave any longer.

At least all 3 of us said t... (Below threshold)
VR:

At least all 3 of us said the same thing. That's a rarity in the military.

Diplomatic immunity? Wow, ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Diplomatic immunity? Wow, that's a shocker if its true. I've never heard of that... and I've done a lot of traveling... a lot. I don't know enough about the status to dispute or build that argument.

My assumption would have been that if Kyrgyz alliance commitments prevented US basing then the the US wouldn't be able to base there under the guise of "diplomacy". Perhaps if the basing was for medical support only then perhaps... but we use Manas for much more than that.

I believe we're allowed to be there because cash is more influential than a mutual security pact with two countries unable or unwilling to do much for them. Plus, both the Russian and Chinese governments are having to find ways to combat the emerging Islamic terrorist themselves. If the US wants to come in and destroy "terrorist university" then I don't think China and Russia will have much of a problem with that. Granted, there is a certain amount of concern having the world's only superpower in their backyard. In fact, there has been some elements of support from both countries (more from Russia, however).

VR....I foresee th... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

VR....

I foresee this as a medboard action with PTSD. Medical Release from AD/ Perm Disability / collect VA Benefits / AND.... Disability Comp.

Is RICO still around???... maybe we could send her up on that!!

Reference AFI 36-2910, Line... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Reference AFI 36-2910, Line of Duty (Misconduct) Determination

1.1. The Line Of Duty (LOD) Determination and Its Objective. A service member who dies or sustains an illness, injury, or disease either while absent from duty, or due to his or her own misconduct, stands to lose substantial government benefits. An LOD determination is a finding made after an investigation into the circumstances of a member's illness, injury, disease or death. The finding concludes (1) whether or not the illness, injury, or disease existed prior to service (EPTS) and if an EPTS condition was aggravated by military service, (2) whether or not the illness, injury, disease, or death occurred while the member was absent from duty and (3) whether or not the illness, injury, disease or death was due to the member's own misconduct. The LOD determination protects the interests of both the member and the United States Government.

1.2.1. Disability Retirement and Severance Pay. A member's entitlement to disability compensation from the Air Force may be lost or reduced if the disability occurred during a period of unauthorized absence or resulted from the member's own misconduct.

1.2.4. Veteran Benefits. The Department of Veteran Affairs may use a member's official military records, including an LOD determination, when determining veteran benefits. (Title 38, U.S.C. Section: 1110, Wartime Disability Compensation, Basic Entitlement; 1131, Peacetime Disability Compensation Veterans' Benefits).

1.5. When an LOD Determination is Required. The LOD determination process must be initiated when a member, whether hospitalized or not, has an illness, injury or disease that results in:
1.5.1. The death of a member. In every case where a member dies on active duty, at a minimum, an AF Form 348 must be completed. An administrative determination is not sufficient in a case of death.
1.5.2. The member's inability to perform military duties for more than 24 hours,
1.5.3. The likelihood of a permanent disability, or

1.9.4. Not in Line of Duty, Due to Own Misconduct. A formal investigation determined that the member's illness, injury, disease, or death was proximately caused by the member's own misconduct. If the member's illness, injury, disease, or death occurred both while the member was absent from duty and was proximately caused by the member's own misconduct, the case should be finalized as Not in Line of Duty, Due to Own Misconduct.

VR..........What a... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

VR..........

What are the chances... hmmmmmm.. of say BiPolar 1?

DocH---Hmmm....I thi... (Below threshold)
VR:

DocH---
Hmmm....I think she will be administratively discharged Dishonorably because I think she did something bad wrong. I don't think her bogus psychiatric condition will come into play with her discharge. I don't know about collecting disability after one is Dishonorably discharged; can that happen? What is RICO? That's a new one on me.

VR/DM/Jocha/Doc:Th... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

VR/DM/Jocha/Doc:

Thanks... there's always more to learn. I've been in the AF for 14 years and had no idea what that meant. Heck, my last assignment was as the Wing CP Chief w/ about 50 folks working for me and I still wasn't exposed to it. oh well... next time I get cocky then remind me of the one, single snipit of GK that I had not yet mastered. :)

- that last sentence was humor for my "sensitive" friends

The Racketeer Influenced an... (Below threshold)
DocHolidaze:

The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act...

Holy Hooplah... I told these people I don't want any more patients for the rest of the day... don't they understand Russian?!!!

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 44-15... (Below threshold)
Johca:

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 44-157, MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARDS (MEB) AND CONTINUED MILITARY SERVICE

1.1. The purpose of the Medical Evaluation Board. In order to maintain a fit and vital force, the Secretary of the Air Force relies on disability laws to remove active duty and Air Reserve Component (Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard) members who can no longer perform their military duties because of a mental or physical defect. The Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) is the first step in the Air Force disability evaluation process to determine who is not worldwide qualified.

1.4.3. Legal proceedings against a member may require a sanity determination as specified in the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) or current legal decisions. This determination is conducted by a sanity board. If the psychiatric findings bring into doubt the member's qualification for worldwide service or competency for pay or records, then an MEB must be convened.

1.4.10. Members under court martial charges are not eligible for disability processing unless there is a question of mental capacity or responsibility or when member's sentence of dismissal or punitive discharge is suspended.

3.1. Responsibilities. It is the responsibility of all Medical Corps officers to identify service members whose qualification for worldwide duty is in doubt and refer them for medical board action within 30 days of making a definitive diagnosis. The Medical Corps officer initiates notification of an MEB action via AF Form 570, Notification of Patient's Medical Status, and forward it to the action officer (PEBLO).

3.3. Line of Duty Determination. An AF Form 348, Line of Duty Determination (LOD), will be completed when misconduct, negligence, or AWOL may have occurred or when a member has a disease or injury which results in an inability to perform military duty for more than 24 hours, or there is the likelihood of permanent disability. AFI 36-2910, Line of Duty Misconduct Determinations provides instruction on LOD determinations as does Paragraph 3.20 of this instruction.

DocH---Hmmm....I ... (Below threshold)
Johca:

DocH---
Hmmm....I think she will be administratively discharged Dishonorably....
Posted by: VR

IMO, She should most likely be punitively discharged for criminal misconduct and be given either bad conduct, dishonorable/dismissal. She might get lucky and get a other-than-honorable discharge. The discharge mentioned typically completely lack eligibility for veterans benefits through the VA.

Doc: Excellent theory! Bi... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Doc: Excellent theory! Bi-polar. I understand this happens during chemical imbalances in the brain which could have been a result of stress, training for the marathon and depleting her body of many nutrients it needed as a result of being so thin. However, would that cause one to leave the mall and declare abduction? I am not very familiar with the entire capacities of Bi-polar. Chemically imbalanced enough to make up stories? but then why missing for 3 days??? ugh

Enjoying the comments and learing some new stuff...

Hey guys. start paying att... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

Hey guys. start paying attention to the news as of today 13 Oct 06. More information is about to drop on Jill. Keep in mind "abortion".

I laugh in the face of all who stood beside her.

some1whono, it's nice to kn... (Below threshold)
DM:

some1whono, it's nice to know that there are people who could be so callous as to laugh at the husband, family, and friends who love someone enough to stand by them in a difficult time.

This posting from johca abo... (Below threshold)
VR:

This posting from johca above is really interesting, and something I didn't know:
1.4.3. Legal proceedings against a member may require a sanity determination as specified in the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) or current legal decisions. This determination is conducted by a sanity board. If the psychiatric findings bring into doubt the member's qualification for worldwide service or competency for pay or records, then an MEB must be convened.

I've never heard of a "sanity board". How bizarre. She's SANE enough, of course, to understand legal proceedings against her; but then again she very well MAY HAVE one of those (often) iffy psychiatric diagnoses that can be (mis)used as a reason to boot irritating people out of the military: a personality disorder; PTSD; bipolar disorder. If so, would she then be able to AVOID military legal proceedings? "I'm too mentally ill to be punished"?????? She would then be medically separated and would qualify for all kinds of benefits. A very interesting possibility. Her best bet would be to start seeing little green men NOW.

she has not been at work. ... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

she has not been at work. she's in washington as part of her investigation.

some1: any idea if she is ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

some1: any idea if she is being 'watched'? Is she considered a flight risk or is this being treated as a TDY to support the investigation?

Just curious as to the general 'air' of the situation. Is hubby w/ her?

"I am not very familiar wit... (Below threshold)
Julie:

"I am not very familiar with the entire capacities of Bi-polar. Chemically imbalanced enough to make up stories? but then why missing for 3 days???"

I listed the symptoms of bipolar below-what is interested is that you can have a mild form of mania called hypomania and a mild form of depression, thus this can go undiagnosed for years. People can be in denial for years and be in a successful career while treatment with medication and counseling would help them tremendously (although there is a stigma attached to a label and treatment).


When people are "manic" they can do things that are quite uncharacteristic of them and go missing for days...drinking, maybe with a paramour, perhaps gambling (I don't know if that is available there) or heck, maybe she was just out running her 35 miles, over and over!

From National Institute of Mental Health:

Bipolar is characterized by periods of mania (sometimes more subtle and sometimes more severe) that can but don't have to include:
* Increased energy, activity, and restlessness
* Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood
* Extreme irritability
* Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another
* Distractibility, can't concentrate well
* Little sleep needed
* Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers
* Poor judgment
* Spending sprees
* A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual
* Increased sexual drive
* Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications
* Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
* Denial that anything is wrong

Alternated with periods of depression that can include:
* Lasting sad, anxious, or empty mood
* Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism
* Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness
* Loss of interest or pleasure in activities once enjoyed, including sex
* Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being "slowed down"
* Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
* Restlessness or irritability
* Sleeping too much, or can't sleep
* Change in appetite and/or unintended weight loss or gain
* Chronic pain or other persistent bodily symptoms that are not caused by physical illness or injury
* Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts


DM....I'm not one ... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

DM....

I'm not one who is "callous", however, there is a difference between standing by someone, and denying the possibility/probablility of something that may be very, very, wrong 'with the picture'.

For her Father: I understand wanting to 'protect' his daughter, but don't lie to me about what happened.

For her Husband: If you can live and love past this, you have my undying admiration.

For her "Friends": Be careful how you attack people who are curious and want to understand the unreasonable tales told by your 'friend'.

DM... get past the "FEELING" and start thinking. Compassion, sympathy, and empathy will have their place. BUT, first let us get past all the lies.

From what i understand, not... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

From what i understand, not to many of her family and friends are standing by her. She went to another country and got knocked up by a local national. Three days before her departure date she tried to go and get an abortion and gets caught past curfew so came up with a lie stating she was kidnapped having everyone here on Moody worried sick (yeah, she was my old commander) just to find out that she made the whole thing up so her husband wouldn't find out that she cheated on him.

Julie:Good info, t... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Julie:

Good info, thanks. When you post stuff like that, I just feel so enlightened and energetic and ready to take on the world with my newly learned information.

But then I realize that I've been following this blog for over a month and I feel like a cyber-geek who has nothing better to do with my life.

ummm... so how about them Bears?

nah, she's being investigat... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

nah, she's being investigated. And soon (really soon) charged.

Thats what im talking about... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

Thats what im talking about.

5-0 I see at least a 14-2 season. We will get to the NFC championship game.

Wizbanger Poster, I've neve... (Below threshold)
DM:

Wizbanger Poster, I've never claimed to be a friend of Metzger's.

"there is a difference between standing by someone, and denying the possibility/probablility of something that may be very, very, wrong 'with the picture'."
Whether she's telling the truth or not, it's hardly "friendly" to be disdainful of her husband, family, and friends for loving and supporting her, thus I called it callous.

"Compassion, sympathy, and empathy will have their place. BUT, first let us get past all the lies." See, I feel that they have their place now. Even if you don't think they should apply to Metzger, certainly they apply to her husband and family.

Oh, and I will continue to think AND feel.

some1:I knew the D... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

some1:

I knew the D was going to be good but the offense? Man... Grossman and the boys are kicking butt.

Julie: the last post was about me poking fun at me... it wasn't some innuendo directed toward you.

Doc: Excellent theory! Bi... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Doc: Excellent theory! Bi-polar.

Gee now everybody is jumping on the loony toon nut case possibility.

Here's part of a post I made back on 30 September at 03:02 PM.

Many mental illnesses are symptom free or perhaps better described no-symptom documented as most persons especially supervisors and managers in the politically correct world go to great lengths to identify problems as being caused by something other than mental illness. Detaining somebody for mental illness observation or even doing a command referral for psychiatric evaluation is difficult. Psychiatric profiles are based on BOTH "mishap probability" (chance that medication or illness related duty impairment will occur) and the "hazard severity" (the danger to mission, security or safety should the impairment impact the person's function at a critical time). Detaining for observation purposes would require demonstrating she was in a current state of mind to taker her own life or to harm others--it would in most instances require a legal process decision.

However epidemiologic data indicates that between 7 percent and 18 percent of the American population meets the diagnostic criteria for primary anxiety disorders at any point in time. Studies also indicate a relationship exists between lactate sensitivity as the most dramatic marker for anxiety disorder and also has some connection to undesirable symptoms of PMS.
We do know Major Mitzger is both a female and an endurance athlete (marathon runner) and lactic acid is the demon of exercise physiology and also of PMS, so I wonder if....

..., she might not have had adequate methods for venting her frustrations and anxieties in other ways other than by having sex.

... Consequently a significant anxiety if not panic disorder presented, when and if a unexpected pregnancy was discovered.

DM:Nothing wrong a... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

DM:

Nothing wrong at all with doing both (thinking and feeling). Both have their purpose...when applied properly.

What is common: feelers who fail to think

Less common: thinkers who suppress feelings because they consider emotion as being inferior

What is probably rare: individuals who can apply both critical thought and emotion (feelings) appropriately.

I'm not shooting across anyone's bow here (Wiz/ DM)... just running my mouth...errr fingers. A pointless observation really.

I think mental illness woul... (Below threshold)
VR:

I think mental illness would be her best bet for getting off the hook, or at least getting somewhat off the hook, but I don't for a second believe she's mentally ill. Yes, she can possibly be CLASSIFIED any number of ways; we ALL can be. The symptom descriptions for many "illnesses" are vague and broad enough to apply to anyone who wants to appear "that way". We're ALL "hypomanic" and have various personality disorders.

HOWEVER, I can say from experience that most MILITARY doctors don't go along with that kind of bull**** as much as civilian doctors are sometimes willing to. My favorite quote from the military was from a military psychiatrist in Iraq evaluating someone who was freaked out and wanted to go home after an IED exploded near his tent: "PTSD my ass." But we'll see what happens with Jill. She's awful cute and will probably turn on the tears.

I've got PTSD! and I'll NE... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

I've got PTSD! and I'll NEVER go to a Turkish bath house again.... EVER.

-------IKJActually... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

-------IKJ

Actually, that was very well thought out.. Last time I did my personality profile I came out as an ENTJ.. That's high on the thinking... low on the feeling.. Keirsey Temperament Sorter. It's actually pretty facinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieldmarshal_%28Role_Variant%29

I think it's still available (for free) somewhere out there on the web.

----IKJDon't know if... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

----IKJ
Don't know if you have seen this guy.. Ali G. From the Da Ali G Show. If you haven't seen it... you gotta watch.. rated.. BUT Hilarious!!

Here's a quote from the DVD..

"So, if this show teach you anything, it should teach you how to respek everyone: animals, children, bitches, spazmos, mingers, lezzers, fatty boombahs, and even gaylords. So, to all you lot watching this, but mainly to the normal people, respek. West side."
Sacha Baron Cohen
As character Ali G, Da Ali G Show

IKJ, Not pointless... (Below threshold)
DM:

IKJ,

Not pointless - astute.

I can see why it's easy for some to think that they are thinking because they are questioning and making up theories, but that I must not be thinking because I've not joined their camp. IMO there's enough evidence by my posts that I have thought about the situation, but come to a different conclusion. I can think about the situation and still feel for the people involved.

Wiz,I've take the ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Wiz,

I've take the Myers-Briggs a few times....

I'm an ENTJ as well. (with a close balance between J & P... Judging vs. Perceiving).

I haven't seen the Temperament Sorter so thanks.
"fieldmarshal to fieldmarshal". There were several of the descriptions that validate my placement into that catagory. Another trait that I recall from the ENTJ analysis is that we tend to be "big picture thinkers" and can sometimes find it a chore to work the details. (That certainly applies to me too at times).

PREGNANCY IN THE AIR FORCE<... (Below threshold)
some1whono:

PREGNANCY IN THE AIR FORCE
Friday, September 29, 2006 - FreeMarketNews.com

The story of a U.S. Air Force officer, who apparently became pregnant while on duty in Kyrgyzstan, has now hit the public airwaves. According to a story in SiaNews, Jill Metzger, a Major in the force, is indeed pregnant, and sought an abortion to deal with the problem.

Previously, Metzger had apparently attempted to cover her absence from duty, with a story about being kidnapped. The report was broadcast on a Kyrgyz television station, which noted that "U.S. militaries are not allowed to be pregnant during the service." It interviewed the physician who performed the procedure, and who verified the information, as did the cab driver who reportedly delivered Ms. Metzger to the clinic.

The article speculates over her motivation for seeking such a low-standard clinic, where almost nobody even spoke English, for the procedure, and concludes she was probably hoping to avoid discovery, either by her husband or her superiors in the service. Now, it notes, all is out in the open, with far worse results. - ST

Staff Reports - Free-Market News Network

Wiz:I've seen Ali ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Wiz:

I've seen Ali G but only a few episodes. "Now that's funny there, I don't care who you are"

DM: I feel for those involved as well.... even JM. She's certainly wrecked her marriage, career, friendships etc. Now, that said; if she's found guilty of something then justice should be served and I think it will.

some1whono:That's an... (Below threshold)
VR:

some1whono:
That's an old article on a blog which involved material posted HERE first by Kuba Kyrgyz. "SiaNews" which it quotes is another blog. The abortion rumor in Kyrgyzstan has not been substantiated (YET?) as far as we know.

Julie: Excellent info. Th... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

Julie: Excellent info. Thanks for the post.

DM: I don't think Some1 meant laughing at those who stood beside her in regards to family, friends and husband. I took that as the outside world, perhaps even people in this blog area and other blog areas continuously bashing those who feel she is guilty, and commenting the innocent until proven guilty even given all the outright strange statements she made and obvious lies. I don't laugh at her family, it would be normal for them to support her and expected. However, that one picture, coming off the plane and her mother's arm barely going up to give her flowers, nearly turning her hand/fist away spoke volumes to me. That to me, using body language, showed a mother who was VERY disappointed in her daughter -certainly NOT a welcome for a supposed hero....

As far as the bi-polar, I still hand onto the abortion theory and feel that is what happened, however, bipolar could very well be a huge part of her personality given all the strange statements and "story" which came out - even a reason for getting pregnant in the first place. I don't know that happened, but that is my theory.....

great comments today!!!

Wizbanger, you may think mo... (Below threshold)
DM:

Wizbanger, you may think more and I may feel more, but we do have Da Ali G Show in common :-)

IKJ: Turkish bath house??<... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: Turkish bath house??

------DM.... Here'... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

------DM....

Here's one...

Ali G: But what harm has violence ever done?

Media analyst: Oh... death!

Ali G: Yeah, but apart from that.

Sacha Baron Cohen
Da Ali G Show"

Deb G: Big, fat, h... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Deb G:

Big, fat, hairy Turkish men who should have invested in deoderant.... hold on, I need my pills.


Seriously, just kidding. I wouldn't go to a Turkish bath house for the reasons above. I was just joking.

Ok... for all on this post ... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Ok... for all on this post who may be big, fat, hairy Turkish men... or women. No offense intended. Might I recommend Right Guard?

-----IKJWhat??? Yo... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

-----IKJ

What??? You want I should post this again..Eh!??

"So, if this show teach you anything, it should teach you how to respek everyone: animals, children, bitches, spazmos, mingers, lezzers, fatty boombahs, and even gaylords. So, to all you lot watching this, but mainly to the normal people, respek. West side."
Sacha Baron Cohen
As character Ali G, Da Ali G Show

I don't think that much can... (Below threshold)
DM:

I don't think that much can be read into the photo of them off the plane. It's a split second of people in motion. It looks like her mother's arm was moving toward Metzger and the camera caught it en route. The camera captures an image of her arm there, but that doesn't mean it stopped there. As for the the positioning of her hand, I don't think it really tells a story. She's reach across her body, which is awkward, and for all we know, at her age, she could have arthritis which would make the movement even more awkward. Her other arm is around Metzger - if she was really very disappointed of her daughter, it's more likely that she'd be avoiding physical contact and she wouldn't have brought a gift of yellow roses.

Okay, IMHO but professional... (Below threshold)
Shrink:

Okay, IMHO but professional opinion, if Jill had a severe enough diagnosis of bi-polar to influence her behavior in this manner (IE, go off and disappear for three days 'just because') her superiors would have noticed something amiss prior to that point. Unless of course, they were completely derelict in their duties.

The patient can't just turn the symptoms on and off; indeed they often don't think there is anything amiss in their behavior. Many bi-polar patients go off their meds because they miss the manic ("high")episodes.

Jill doesn't sound like a classic bi-polar to me, but hey, most of my patients are less than four feet tall.

Wiz:my bad... resp... (Below threshold)
IKJ:

Wiz:

my bad... respek! :)

Alright, time for bed here in the "Land of the not quite right".

Wizbanger, if you haven't a... (Below threshold)
DM:

Wizbanger, if you haven't already seen, Sasha's coming out with a new movie "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan."

IKJ: ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... (Below threshold)
Deb G.:

IKJ: ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww I was laughing silly reading that! I was in Germany and lots of the same stuff there. They don't like to shower and told me that Americans have such dry skin because we shower daily. They don't and the oils make the skin look younger longer - ewwwwwwwww I lived in Germany for 8 years and my mother's family is from there (they don't speak English!), but the smell at times - yuck....
Disclaimer: This is not meant to speak derogatory toward Germans, I have family there, however, it is part of their culture not to bath often....they rarely wear deodorant. Perhaps we could send some Right Guard and Secret for them! A grand gesture.....

DM: You're probably right. A second of a pic, but just that one second of that visual made me think her mother was just not happy. To me, noone looked happy in that pic.....

I have got to watch that show!!

Well I gotta get some thing... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Well I gotta get some things done..

DM.. thanks, I'll check it out.

Shrink is correct in that b... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Shrink is correct in that bipolar or manic depressive patients can't just turn their symptoms on or off but they can be "functionally dysfunctional" for years before people take notice. Often manic depressive people tend to be of the over-achiever personality (make major in 10 years, be the winner of the women's division marathon for the USAF, etc.) and people regard them as "respectable people." The fact that they have other "strange, odd or off" characteristics about them seem to be overshadowed by the accomplishments.

Of course on the other hand, you have the bipolar folks who have rages when manic, can't sleep for days, paint their ceilings and walls and so on...but a mental health issue that could have contributed to her 3 day getaway. A three day manic episode? No sleep, had to run...maybe.

Stress can certainly induce mania. The stress of going home to a marriage she didn't want to be in? The stress of being pregnant? The stress of fearing she had an STD from her indiscretions? How about just stress of going back to everyday life, to a spouse, when she had never had to return to a spouse from deployment previously? All could trigger a manic event in someone who had previously only experienced hypomania.


Article from Valdosta newsp... (Below threshold)
FJ:

Article from Valdosta newspaper that paraphrases the AF Times article.


http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/local_story_285011224.html

The report was broadcast on... (Below threshold)
johca:

The report was broadcast on a Kyrgyz television station, which noted that "U.S. militaries are not allowed to be pregnant during the service."

Kyrgyz television was misinformed. Pregnancy does not disqualify or become cause for mandatory separation or removal from serving a military obligation. However, pregnancy is a temporary medical condition that limits and restricts what military duties are done by a female military member during the pregnancy--it mission impairs duty status pertaining to performing and supporting combat operations and personal readiness to be there to perform all expected military duties.

Pregnancy does not require a Medical Evaluation Board and is handled as a code 81 temporary 4T profile that imposes mobility, TDY, and duty task performance restrictions and limitations to include not being eligible to deploy to a imminent danger pay duty location and if the female gets pregnant at such duty locations will cause early release from the deployment duty taskings and return to home duty station. The medical standard for eligibility to deploy is "Be free of medical conditions, including pregnancy, which require special appliances, or periodic treatments or follow up by medical specialists or sub specialists during the period of the deployment. (Ref AFI 48-123v4, para A5.2.3)"

Jill Metzger Hello!!!... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

Jill Metzger Hello!!!

Where is Jill Metzger??

"Wizbanger, if you haven't ... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

"Wizbanger, if you haven't already seen, Sasha's coming out with a new movie "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan."

Posted by: DM at October 13, 2006 01:32 PM"

2DEB G

Ask me 'bout Kazakhstan. :)

1) Borat is the Turkish name. Bulat is the equivalent name in Kazakh.
2) Sasha Baron Cohen has never been to Kazakhstan.
3) He is a Jew. He doesn't look Kazakh to my eyes.
4) Kazakhstan is a country of size equal to whole Western Europe in terms of land.
5) Jagshemash is a Polish word.
6) Kazakhs do not drink fermented horse's urine, they drink fermented mare's milk (occasionally).
7) Russian spaceships blast off from Baikonur, Kazakhstan.
8) Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are very similar nations.
Very similar languages and customs.
9 Rural Kazakhs also steal their brides
10) Adolph Hitler made an exceptions for 2 asiatic nations, Kazakh and Kyrgyz, joining them to the rank of Aryan folks. :) But that was for purely political reasons, I guess.

Waffen-SS im Einsatz
Hitler's Soviet Muslim Legions
http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id10.html

When the mass of Soviet Muslims collaborators followed the retreating German armies to avoid the reprisals that awaited them from the Russians, Himmler would probably not have objected to procuring them for the Waffen SS. He had decided that it was only the Slav and the Jews in the Russian stock who were sub-humans. There was a superior element in the Russian nation which come from Asia and which had produced Attila, Jenghiz Khan, Tamerlane, Lenin, and Stalin. The Soviet Muslims themselves were suited with these criteria. Many of them came from Caucasus (just like Stalin origin) or descendants and relatives of the Mongols (like Tartar and Turkestan peoples).

/*<a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/local_story_285011224.html

Metzger is appearing before a grand jury to validate she was abducted and to OK the Justice Department to investigate in Kyrgyzstan, the article stated. No details were released from the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia as to the grand jury proceedings because they are considered secret, the article stated.

*/

Interesting turn... So, she'll be flying back to Bishkek soon.

Interesting turn... So, ... (Below threshold)
johca:

Interesting turn... So, she'll be flying back to Bishkek soon.

Unlikely to happen, not required.

Although article informs "Metzger is appearing before a grand jury to validate she was abducted and to OK the Justice Department to investigate in Kyrgyzstan." The grand jury is basically putting her under oath to give sworn statement of her explanation of what happened. The Justice Department and OSI need no permissions from her unless they want access to any medical records concerning any medical treatments or procedures she had during her disappearance.

I do not know International Criminal Law (other than Geneva Conventions and other laws of armed conflict) and I certainly do not know Kyrgyzstan laws, but even supposing and agreeing full diplomatic immunity I do not think there is anything stopping local Kyrgyzstan law enforcement from proceeding with conducting an investigation just to satisfy thier courosity and to document the evidence to close the book on the abduction case.

If alleged abortion did happen I wonder how much access to medical records and other evidence is acceptable in Kyrgyzstan during a criminal investigation without the patient's permission?

More on Diplomatic Immunity... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

More on Diplomatic Immunity of US and Russian military personnel.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/07/340e7fcb-12eb-4e60-9606-42cb39311a10.html

Kyrgyzstan: Russian Troops, Like U.S. Counterparts, Now Enjoy Diplomatic Immunity
By Bruce Pannier

The upper house of Kyrgyzstan's parliament has voted to give Russian soldiers stationed in the country diplomatic immunity. Soldiers from the U.S.-led coalition stationed in Kyrgyzstan for operations in Afghanistan already enjoy such immunity. But some in Kyrgyzstan question why foreign troops should be exempt from Kyrgyz laws while they are on Kyrgyz soil.

"If alleged abortion... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

"
If alleged abortion did happen I wonder how much access to medical records and other evidence is acceptable in Kyrgyzstan during a criminal investigation without the patient's permission?
Posted by: johca at October 14, 2006 05:15 AM
"

Cops can freely access medical records and other evidence without the patient's permission. They just need warranty issued by police.

I'm going to conjecture a little bit on what'll happen next:

1)In all probability, it looks like that JM had criminal abortion. With no medical records. I guess that surgeon, who made a statement on NTS TV station, will be interrogated by Kyrgyz cops.
He will be announced culprit for all mishap.
2)Abduction scenario will be pursued. I wonder how that will be worked out.
3)JM will be announced mentally unstable.

But some in Kyrgyzstan ques... (Below threshold)
johca:

But some in Kyrgyzstan question why foreign troops should be exempt from Kyrgyz laws while they are on Kyrgyz soil.

They are not exempt, they are expected to respect and obey all Kyrgyztan laws. It's that if a military memember breaks a local law it is the who is going to do the prosecuting and convicting. Not always te best thing for any government when it comes to the victim seeing or not seeing justice was properly and adequately dispensed.

<a href="http://www.iwpr.ne... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=rca&s=f&o=177080&apc_state=henirca2002

Kyrgyzstan: Car Crash Heightens Unease over US Ties

A recent traffic accident in which an American soldier hit two women has renewed debate over the immunity status of foreign military personnel.

By Cholpon Orozobekova in Bishkek (RCA No. 111, 27-Mar-02)

Kyrgyz deputies are questioning whether American military personnel should continue to enjoy diplomatic military immunity from prosecution after a US driver seriously injured two women in a traffic accident in the capital Bishkek.

The accident occurred when a Toyota Landcruiser, driven by Daniel Marion, a security officer from the nearby US airbase, hit the women at about 10pm on March 14 as they were leaving the Bishkek State University Hostel, where they live.

One of the women, 35-year-old Anara, had to have her spleen removed. The other, named Baktygul, suffered various fractures and broke her pelvis and collarbone. Both received head wounds and are still in hospital.

According to Baktygul, the two women had just started to cross a wide, two-way street when Marion's car appeared from nowhere. "When I came round I found someone supporting my head and in front I saw a girl in glasses. I understood from what they were saying and the way they looked that they were Americans," she said.

A student eyewitness, called Aibek, recall seeing one of the women's bodies literally flying through the air after a loud bang. "I just froze from fear," he said. "After I saw people get out of the vehicle. I could tell from their speech that they were foreigners. A bit later an ambulance and people from the State Automobile Inspectorate arrived."

Reports in local newspapers claimed the driver had been drunk at the time.

The real controversy began, however, when it emerged that the interior ministry and US embassy personnel had not allowed automobile inspectorate officials to test the US driver for alcohol.

According to Yekaterina Martushova, a government official, Kygyzstan's agreement with Washington grants US military personnel the equivalent of diplomatic immunity from prosecution.

The rules governing embassy administrative and technical personnel in the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations apparently rule out forcing an officer to undergo medical tests.

The convention effectively offers such individuals immunity from the host country's legal jurisdiction, though it not does exempt them from that of their home country.

The interior ministry said the US embassy had written a note, stating the Americans were "observing all the laws and regulations of Kyrgyzstan and greatly regretted the road accident". However, the letter also claimed that "both women jumped out into the road very unexpectedly".

Following the accident, the American military command in Kyrgyzstan assured the Kyrgyz side that they had briefed officers and soldiers on the traffic rules and had banned US military personnel from driving. In future they must rely on local drivers. US army investigators have arrived in Bishkek to investigate the accident.

The American armed forces have also taken responsibility for the two women's medical bills and paid preliminary compensation of 1,000 US dollars towards their healthcare. The Kyrgyz Aki-Press news agency also reported that Washington was prepared to compensate them for damages.

The US forces said they had sent a group of their own military doctors to treat the patients in Bishkek. A local hospital doctor confirmed that American military personnel had visited Anara every day in hospital at the Bishkek National Surgical Centre.

The mother of the second victim said the Americans had been equally attentive to he daughter. She said the automobile inspectorate had explained that the law ruled out trying the serviceman responsible for the accident.

In spite of the Americans' obvious concern for the two women, the incident has heightened public unease over the country's military treaty with the US and the privileges that it accords foreign soldiers.

The immunity issue has become the subject of a heated public debate, with a growing chorus asking if it is appropriate for foreign military personnel to enjoy such status.

One deputy in parliament, Kubat Baibolov said the driver in the accident ought to have been tried in Kyrgyzstan. He called for the agreement at the end of last year between the two states to be renegotiated, and immunity status withdrawn for rank and file soldiers.

With more than 1,500 US soldiers now based in Kyrgyzstan, the question is not whether but when another incident between locals and foreigners takes place. The immunity issue is unlikely to go away soon.

Cholpon Orozobekova is an IWPR contributor

------Kuba..Kyrgyz... (Below threshold)
WizBanger Poster:

------Kuba..

Kyrgyzstan: Car Crash Heightens Unease over US Ties

"A recent traffic accident in which an American soldier hit two women has renewed debate over the immunity status of foreign military personnel...."
-----------------------
I posted the following on 5Oct:

"Anyone who has experienced military 'residents' in their town or city knows that one ends up with a two-headed monster at the door.

First, it's nice to have a complex that is going to provide additional jobs for people and a revenue cow for local businesses. But, secondly, military are military..and their money has to be spent somewhere. That normally ends up at the local bars... not the local libraries. I suppose, it would be the best of both worlds if that were the case. Historically, it has proven to be a detriment for a community."
---------------

Even in the USA military facilities are not always welcome in a community. Things have changed a lot over the years, but still, local people don't like to have drunk, unruly military roaming the streets of their town. Commanders don't like to have their soldiers arrested and then have to come pick them up and pay for the damages they create. But, that's the nature of the beast.

I suspect that Russian and Kyrgyz soldiers are the same.

Eventually, it will come to a point where Bishkek will be totally 'off-limits' or Gansi will just not exist there anymore.. But, you are correct that diplomatic immunity is not the answer to the problem!

The convention effective... (Below threshold)
Johca:

The convention effectively offers such individuals immunity from the host country's legal jurisdiction, though it not does exempt them from that of their home country.

Although unfortunate, the injured victims in this case probably came out better as far as compensation and financial remedy for medical expenses than had they had to deal with trying to get compensation and financial remedy from the military members personal wealth and resources. It comes down to what's more necessary, seeing punishment or getting what is needed for medical care and hope proper punishment was administered. Tough to argue either way in some instances.

I do understand the issue you are trying to raise, however it has been shown this agreement is not unique and limited to U.S. Military personnel in Kyrgyzstan, as the Kyrgyzstan government has entered into similar agreements with other governments.

The status of forces issue is not unique to the United States and The convention effectively offers such individuals immunity from the host country's legal jurisdiction, though it not does exempt them from that of their home country.

Although unfortunate, the injured victims in this case probably came out better as far as compensation and financial remedy for medical expenses than had they had to deal with trying to get compensation and financial remedy from the military members personal wealth and resources. It comes down to what's more necessary, seeing punishment or getting what is needed for medical care and hope proper punishment was administered. Tough to argue either way in some instances.

I do understand the issue you are trying to raise, however it has been shown this agreement is not unique and limited to U.S. and Kyrgyzstan governments. Such agreements are a cause of bad feeling anyplace a country is hosting a large presence of another country's military within its national borders.

<a href="http://www.iwpr.ne... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=rca&s=f&o=177080&apc_state=henirca2002

"The accident occurred when a Toyota Landcruiser, driven by Daniel Marion, a security officer from the nearby US airbase".

I'm just wondering what was the story with Daniel Marion. I heard that he had "friends in high places" and got away with his crime. Is there a way to find out what happened to him after that?

There were hearsays that those 2 injured women were approached by Kyrgyz police and threatened to keep their mouths shut or else. US Embassy guys gave injured women two hundred dollars each, that was all, actually. Our former corrupted president Askar Akayev was making quite a profit from selling fuel to US airbase and it was in his interest to hush up things. It's just "Cash Rules Everything".

I am just wondering, if Jill Metzger's "friends in high places" could help her to get away in case she was not abducted.

I am too lazy today to both... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

I am too lazy today to bother tracking it down (there is an article about it somewhere on the internet): another more recent (over a year ago?) traffic incident occured in Bishkek -- I think it was a group of Marines. After that, no one on base has been allowed to drive themselves -- they must always hire drivers (cabs) from then on. Someone (here?) mentioned that there was a time where Jill was supposed to give a group going into town a briefing for the same type of shopping trip that she herself went on, but angered both the driver and the group by putzing around, keeping them waiting for an hour or so, for no apparent reason other than spite -- more evidence of bipolar like behavior?

Talk about too lazy! The b... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Talk about too lazy! The bit abot no longer being able to drive themselves is burried in the same article Kuba just posted! Sorry.

Back on the tangental topic... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Back on the tangental topic of SOFAs -- did you know that the US has been working all over the world to put in place Bilateral Immunity Agreements (Kyrgyz signed theirs BIA December of 2003) that will remove US nationals from the reach of the International Criminal Court (i.e., not just local but international courts as well)? BIAs have articles worded to explicitly require the existence of a "sending state" relationship (such as when US military and civilian personnel are sent to a receiving state by the US government pursuant to SOFAs or SOMAs), and which say that if person commits a crime in a country where he or she has been sent, he or she is to be returned to the sending country -- in other words, there are articles in the BIA that overlap or are equivalent to what we have recently uncovered in SOFAs. Do I detect a trend here?

in other words, there ar... (Below threshold)
johca:

in other words, there are articles in the BIA that overlap or are equivalent to what we have recently uncovered in SOFAs. Do I detect a trend here?

Posted by: ijosha at October 14, 2006

Yes there is significant similarities between BIA and SOFA, they address the same issues, problems, and concerns.

Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

/*<a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
http://www.babouchka.net/www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/article7865.html?id=487

It turns out that Kyrgyzstan, as it was secured by the bilateral agreement, «has no right to prosecute or press charges against American servicemen», and both governments agreed «not to file claims against each other for incurred losses, deaths or physical injuries to any civil or military personnel». Now it is clear why US Air Force Captain who ran over two ladies, citizens of Kyrgizia, on the streets of the capital, got away with it.
*/

Looks like that US-Kyrgyz bilateral agreement is a double edged sword.
Even if Jill Metzger was abducted in Kyrgyzstan, US has no legal rights to pursue matter further in Kyrgyzstan, in all probability.

/*
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/local_story_285011224.html

Metzger is appearing before a grand jury to validate she was abducted and to OK the Justice Department to investigate in Kyrgyzstan, the article stated. No details were released from the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia as to the grand jury proceedings because they are considered secret, the article stated.

*/

But US Justice Department, from what I see, has no legal grounds to perform investigations in Kyrgyzstan. Becuase that would be a breach of US-Kyrgyz bilateral agreement! Let's put a question mark here.

/*(Kyrgyz signed the... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
(Kyrgyz signed theirs BIA December of 2003)
Posted by: ijosha at October 14, 2006 03:19 PM
*/

Wow, how could I forget about that? Thanks ijosha, for info.

Now it is clear why US A... (Below threshold)
johca:

Now it is clear why US Air Force Captain who ran over two ladies, citizens of Kyrgizia, on the streets of the capital, got away with it. Kuba this opinion is as legitimate as any I provide. However, the got away with it certainly does irritate me. If justice and agreement worked as they are supposed to, there would be no-got away with it to discuss.

There is no justice system ever that has been 100% blind to political influences and the possession of financial resources to buy best legal trickery available. Regarding the Captain, there should have been UCMJ offenses he was charged with and for many reasons it is an impossibility to find out through a blog or other informal unofficial means what punishment or accountability he ended up with.

Assuming drunk driving and accident causing injury the appropriate offense would be at minimum be Article 111-- Drunken or reckless driving. Maximum punishment is as courts martial directs, and for drunk driving resulting in injury the punishment can include 18 months confinement. The question is what are you expecting as being reasonable punishment, the firing squad?

You are correct the U.S. Justice Department has no jurisdiction to investigate in another Country unless invited to do so. These invitations happen all the time and I have personal knowledge of other Country's law enforcement being officially allowed into USA to conduct joint investigations. The permissions being sought is probably to meet U.S. admission of evidence requirements pertinent to court deliberations.

Some of the offenses I previously suggested as being appropriate offenses to be charged have the potential of including a death conviction, again it comes to what are you expecting to be reasonable punishment for falsely claiming to be abducted?

1)/*However, ... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

1)
/*
However, the got away with it certainly does irritate me.
*/

That was a choice of wording used by web site, not mine:

www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/article7865.html?id=487
KavkazCenter
37 Gorgasali St.
Tbilisi, Georgia 380078
GE

2)
/*
You are correct the U.S. Justice Department has no jurisdiction to investigate in another Country unless invited to do so.
*/

I know that Kyrgyz Interior Ministry guys were really irritated by Metzger's "bomb in the pocket" story and with the fact that US Embassy was not cooperative with investigation into JM's disappearance.

I wonder, how joint investigation is going to work out this time?

3)

Article says Metzger was tortured
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/local_story_285011224.html

Whoa!! Look at the title. And the way tabloid newspaper relays the story.

/*
The article, which appeared in the Oct. 16 issue of the Air Force Times, quotes Metzger's father, retired Lt. Col. John Metzger, as saying his daughter was "definitely kidnapped and abducted" and is "tremendously traumatized."
*/

Lt. Col. John Metzger, is he clairvoyant? I would not use word "definitely" if I were him. Story is still obscure.

Kuba, I think most here are... (Below threshold)
Shrink:

Kuba, I think most here are at the least questioning JM's story. It makes, imho, little sense.

That said, we're not going to over-react to the statements of her father. Even if her parents were to believe otherwise, it's highly likely that in public they are going to defend their daughter and spin her story in the best possible light. That's just human nature.

From the Valdosta Times's p... (Below threshold)
VR:

From the Valdosta Times's paraphrase of the AF Times article:
"Metzger's father said he has yet to get the full story from his daughter because she is traumatized, but Metzger was held in captivity for 74 hours before escaping and fleeing her captors on foot, according to the AF Times article. He went on to say Metzger, a two-time winner of the Air Force Marathon women's division, ran for seven hours through the countryside of Kyrgyzstan -- an estimated 35 to 40 miles -- before seeking help at a farmhouse in the town of Kant."

1. The key phrase: "Metzger's father said he has yet to get the full story from his daughter because she is traumatized..." Uh, yeah. Or something.
2. She ran 35 miles barefoot through a fairly populated area? Why? And she did sub-12-minute miles for 7 hours straight after being starved (lost 17 lbs???) beaten up and traumatized so badly she still can't speak about it? Give me a break, Dad.

That is what got me, too --... (Below threshold)
Been There, Too:

That is what got me, too -- that she lost 17 lbs, or 15% of her body weight or something, after being beaten and no sleep for 3 days, but she can run barefoot sub-12 minute miles in the dark night for 7 hours?

I am not a runner by any means - 3 miles will do it for me and I can do that with 9 minute miles if I try real hard - but seems to me that is just superhuman.

I also don't know anything about the adrenaline rush if you think your life is in danger, but all in all, seems like it would be almost impossible, if you are weak from no food and no sleep and have no shoes and it is either dirt roads or countryside?

The minimum weight standard... (Below threshold)
Johca:

The minimum weight standard is (BMI = 19 kg/m) and I believe I read in one of the articles she is 5'1" or 61 inches tall, which according to AFI48-123V2 her minimum weight limit is 100 pounds. At time of disappearance it is claimed she weighed 110 pounds and weighed 90 pounds when examined after her ordeal. She basically had no body fat to sustain any type of endurance activity, add no sleep, beatings, and being drugged, I'm very skeptical of any significant distance being run.

Just curious, one of the ea... (Below threshold)
Johca:

Just curious, one of the early articles before she was found said she was highly decorated. Anybody have a clue what her award and decs are?

The highest I'm willing to presume is a MSM.

I find very curious that Co... (Below threshold)
Gh:

I find very curious that Col. Metzger is telling the story and not her husband. Ever since Jill got off the plane at Moody, he's been a non-entity and just shoved into the background.

I guess we see who's wearing the pants in that family.

VR, Been There, Too: <br /... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

VR, Been There, Too:
I have seen people do some pretty amazing things in my days, so I don't have too much of a problem believing that she could "run barefoot ... in the dark night for 7 hours" -- also, the area almost in every direction around Kant is pretty flat, mostly farmland, and the populated areas get pretty darn quiet after dark. What I have more reason to question is how far she really went. How do we know when and from where she really started? What do we really have to corroborate that it was 7 hours? 35-40 km? Statements by both dad and dad-in-law make it seem to me that they are prone to a little exageration.

Gh:
Being (active?) OSI, maybe it is not unreasonable for hubby to be keeping a very low profile.

Umm, I think I was too hars... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Umm, I think I was too harsh on the Dads -- let me revise to say that they seem prone to relaying the more extreme versions of what they appear to know.

Another mystery with Jill's... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Another mystery with Jill's abduction story:
she got disappeared, when Kyrgyzstan's pro-American opposition leader Omurbek Tekebayev was caught in Poland with heroin and quickly released by Polish authorities. (another mystery).

I won't be surprised if Kyrgyz authorities are highly suspicious of the way Jill Metzger affair is handled in USA, to say the least.

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7950180

Who planted heroin on a critic of the president?


POLITICAL rivalries in Kyrgyzstan are often personal and messy. Yet an attempt on September 6th to frame Omurbek Tekebaev, a former speaker of parliament and a critic of the country's president, on drug-smuggling charges struck a new low. Mr Tekebaev was detained at Warsaw's airport after a matryoshka--a wooden Russian doll--containing 595grams (1.3lb) of heroin was found in his luggage.

http://gdb.rferl.org/62e467d6-4722-419b-b1b3-700f485cb8bb_w220.jpg

Omurbek Tekebaev addressing his supporters in Bishkek on September 12

And not so long ago, 2 US d... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

And not so long ago, 2 US diplomats, Paul Polites and Kaku Kimaru were expelled from Kyrgyzstan on spying accusations. They were involved in channeling funds to radical islamic militants in the South of Kyrgyzstan. On the one hand, US wages war against radical islamic terrorism, but on the another hand US secret services sponsor radical muslim militants in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. Mystery.

http://www.registan.net/index.php?paged=3

"Cracking Down?"
Kyrgyzstan is cracking down on "Islamic militants" who are accused of trying to overthrow Bakiyev's government. The government claims the harsh crackdown is a necessary step to reduce the influence of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), and other groups possibly linked to al-Qaeda. While it's possible the government has legitimate concerns stemming from the radicalism that seems to endemic to the Ferghana region, I can't help feeling skepticism about the new policy--ever since his U.S.-led rise to power, Bakiyev has become increasingly aligned with both Tashkent and Moscow, creating headaches for western interests (and dramatically raising the lease rates for air bases). I'm not sure a move against possible radicals is necessarily a way of appeasing Moscow, as the Monitor seems to indicate (it could simply be a symptom of finding more solidarity with autocrats), but the move is nevertheless worrisome.
The trick, of course, is that these supposed extremists have been there for years. While the violence along the border should raise eyebrows, the IMU has been virtually neutered--I'd be curious to see if any outsiders have found much evidence of that organization still operating.

Sooo, geopolitical rivalry,... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Sooo, geopolitical rivalry, cloak & dagger games, power games, abortion, AWOL, kidnapping, bridenapping, drug trafficking all happening at once?

http://www.registan.net/index.php?paged=3

Russian "Analyst": IMU threatens Central Asian Presidents (and America lurks in their shadow).
Tohir Yuldash, leader of the al-Qaida linked terrorist group Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) has gone public with a threat to the leaders of Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan and Tajikistan, saying those leaders will be punished for the persecution of Muslims. The statement was published on the website Muslimuzbekistan.com, and has been picked up in the Western press.
"We demand that all regimes in the region stop persecuting, terrorizing and repressing Muslims," the statement said, further stating that the presidents of the three countries will be "punished for the crimes they keep committing."
The statement especially singled out Uzbekistan's president, Islam Karimov (whom the IMU has reportedly "sentenced" to death). Referring to the killing of what most believe to be hundreds of innocent citizens in Andijan in May of 2005, Yuldash's statement said, "we haven't forgotten the Muslims shot dead in Andijan."
So who is REALLY behind all of this? Well, according to one Vladimir Anokhin, in an "analysis" published on the Russian website Pravda.ru, the United States is lurking behind and controlling the IMU. On the website, Mr. Anokhin is described as a "political scientist, Vice President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems."
Interestingly, the statement appears on the Russian language version of Pravda.ru, but not on the English version. Ever since the events at Andijan, the Uzbek government has darkly hinted (and sometimes outright accused) the West - especially the U.S. - as having organized and financed the uprising at Andijan.
Mr. Anokhin writes that the "nearest partners of the IMU," including Al-Qaida and the Taliban were "the children of the CIA, created for struggle against the Soviet Union," and "have never left the sphere of influence of 'silent Americans'" and are operated by them "to this day." Anokhin says the degree of activity and aggression of (the IMU) has always been regulated by the "western special services."
So now we know from this learned analysis that - notwithstanding the IMU is on the U.S. list of terrorist groups - and is being chased up one side of Afghanistan and down the other by U.S. troops - they are really a TOOL of the U.S., when it comes to trying to destabilize Central Asia.
Sometimes it seems this kind of goofiness will never end.

/*Someone bring in K... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

/*
Someone bring in Kuba!!! 1/2 the article was in revelation of our "rocky less than perfect" relations with the Kyrgyz people/govt. i.e. MEDIA NOT SO CLEVERLY SHIFTING FOCUS
Honestly--regardless of what the truth is the AF will vindicate this officer and/or it will quietly go away...under the radar screen so to speak.

Posted by: Right on Time at October 11, 2006 04:58 PM
*/

Certainly, there is a geopolitical rivalry going on between Russia and USA.

My personal feeling is that Bush's administration made a gross mistake refusing to pay for Manas airbase up to demands.

Jill Metzger bought herself a trouble in the wrong time, during diplomatic standoff and power games.

Interesting analysis:

http://www.eurasianhome.org/xml/t/print.xml?lang=en&nic=digest&pid=1448

CENTRASIA: WILL KYRGYZSTAN BREAK THE STATUS OF THE U.S. ENCLAVE?


Recently, American diplomats, Paul Polites and Kakku Kimara have been expelled from Kyrgyzstan. "According to the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the two diplomats working for the U.S. Embassy in Kyrgyzstan have been declared as personas non grata in the republic", the Kyrgyz Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated on July 12, 2006. The Ministry emphasized that "this decision was made in conformity with the facts given by the special services about repeated interference in the country's domestic affairs which is incompatible with the diplomat's status and the recognized standards of the international law". Two weeks later there was a reaction: the diplomatic department's employees accredited in the USA and Canada, Saltanat Tashmatova and Asan Usupov were turned down.

The White House, which failed to build the mutually beneficial partner relations with Kyrgyzstan and provoked the diplomatic conflict resulting in the expulsion of the both countries' diplomats, tries to improve its policy towards Kyrgyzstan by making it less tough. This is the viewpoint of the majority of the political scientists who are sure that the seeming victories in the Middle East turned George Bush's head and whereby he denied political and financial assistance to the Kyrgyz authorities. The U.S. President administration had a low opinion of the situation with the Kyrgyz non-governmental organizations as well as refused even to consider the price for the lease of the Manas air force base, which had been proposed by Kyrgyzstan. However, the present stage of the Kyrgyz-American relations cannot be regarded only as result of a failure in the bargains. This is the only correct foreign policy capable of granting the Kyrgyz people the benefits they have been striving for. Now, the Bishkek's relations with its neighbors are inversely proportional to the cooperation with the USA. For all the assurances that it is possible to simultaneously 'run with the hare and hunt with the hounds', Kyrgyzstan's neighbors, which went through the Bush pseudo democracy and have experienced the colonial foreign policy conducted by the White House, would be unlikely to establish good-neighborly relations with Bishkek if it did not break the status of the U.S. enclave.

The Kyrgyzstan's statehood consists in historic, geographical and entographical friendship with its Asian neighbors. A great deal in the Kyrgyz economy depends on the improvement of the relations with Russia. The future of the project on the completion of the Kambaratinsk HPP-1 and HPP-2, the construction of the aluminium plant in Kyrgyzstan and other large projects directly depends on Russia's capital.

Foreign Minister Alikbek Djekshenkulov said that now the Russian-Kyrgyz relations are up to the mark. Russia is the major trade partner of that country and ranks first in Kyrgyzstan's volume of trade with other countries. The Minister also emphasized that Kyrgyzstan attached great importance to close cooperation with Russia within the framework of the CIS, the CSTO, the EAEC and the SCO; he also supported the Russian foreign-policy initiatives.

Prime-Minister Felix Kulov is convinced that the friendship with Russia and the Central Asian countries is fruitful. In spite of all the U.S. efforts to embroil Kyrgyzstan with its neighbors, particularly with Russia and Uzbekistan, he reported: "I believe that Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan will not be able to be on such relations for a long time and in the near future our cool relations will improve". We shall remind that the U.S. administration tried to provoke the conflict between those countries several times, exerting pressure on the Kyrgyz authorities and opposing their official position to those of Moscow and Tashkent. The factor of energy supplies from Uzbekistan to Kyrgyzstan played significant role in that. Aide of the U.S. Secretary of State on the Eurasian Affairs Daniel Frid emphasized that America 'will not permit the foreign pressure', especially in the energy sphere. All that is done to strengthen the U.S. precarious position in Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan.

The Central Asian people have always lived and they will live in friendship, cooperation, peace and accord. They are united by historical rites and customs, common religion and boundaries as well as brotherhood and ties of relationship. The Kyrgyz leaders have spoken about that many times. Now those relations are bolstered up. The friendly relations and the trade-economic cooperation are being developed, the cultural organizations activity is becoming more intense. In the age of the USA-led globalization the development of the cooperation between the Central Asian states and Russia may turn out to be of pivotal importance for the region's nations.

Sergei DEMIDOV, political writer, Bishkek

Wonder what Borat would hav... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Wonder what Borat would have said about Jill Metzger abduction?

http://www.kub.kz/article.php?sid=14781

Borat went to America to make a film: has it changed how he feels about camels, diners and wife cages? He talks to Stephen Armstrong

Tell me a bit about yourself -- are you married?

My name Borat Sagdiyev, I son of Asimbala Sagdiyev and Boltok the rapist, and former husband of Oxana Sagdiyev, who was daughter of Mariam Tulyakbay and Boltok the rapist. My hobbies is ping pong, disco dance and taking photographs of ladies doing toilet without their knowledge. My wife is dead. I did not kill her. It not problem, I have new wife.

Where did you grow up? What was it like growing up there?

I grow up in beautiful Kazakh town of Kuzcek. My house was in nicest area, three miles from fence of Jewtown. I was lucky to be from good family, so I stay on after school and do further educations. I study plague research at Astana University and create three new ones! One of them was sprayed on Uzbekistan and kill two millions goat! Then, after that, when I 13, I leave education and start workings.

We don't know much about the country in the UK. What are its good points and its bad points?

Kazakhstan nice place and now as civilised as any other -- especial since the Tulyakev reforms of 2003, which mean women can now travel on inside of bus, homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats and age of consent have been raised to 11 year old. In Kazakhstan, we treats all peoples with equal respect -- even the "strange ones". Last May, we open the Almaty Retard Centre. It have over 300 cages for them to live in, and public viewing gallery where for 10 tenge you can look on them, and for 15 you can throw potatoes. Why not? They like!

Does it have many of the problems of the region? Ethnic tensions?

Most problems in region is caused by assholes Uzbekistan -- who as everyone knows is nosy people with a bone in the middle of their brains. If there is one more item of Uzbek propaganda claiming we in Kazakhstan do not drink fermented horse urine, give death penalty for cleaning anoos with Kazakh flag or export over 300 tons of human pubis per year, then we will have no alternative but to commence bombardment of their cities with our catapults.

Is there anywhere else you would like to live?

I would very much like livings in Beverlys Hills. It have biggest stars in the world, who lives there and walk in the streets. One afternoon when I looking on shops, I see, buying a handbag, most beautiful woman in world -- Liza Minnelli. Then I see driving in a car hero John Wayne, and when I return to my hotel Best Western, fighting legend Muhammad Ali open door for me.

Why did you want to work in the media?

I have be television reporter since seven years. My profession journalist.

I have previous work as ice-maker and gypsy-catcher, and was also do computer maintenance -- I the one who would paint the outsides and remove dead birds from their pipes. I have also be doctor one time, for two week during school holiday. Before that, I was extractor of spermatozoa from animals. I the best in Almaty! One time there was a camel who everyone say could not be released. I say, leave it to Borat! I grip, pull; grip, pull; grip, pull... for 17 hours... my arm was to begin to ache very much... then there was a rumbling... and... liquid explosion! Hi five.

Are you a big star at home? Do you have fans? How do they treat you?

I fourth most famous person in Kazakhstan. No 3 is ex-Olympic gymnast Lily Utmarkan, who now perform in Kazakh State Circus, where she famous for be able to put one foot in ear while other in her vagine. No 2 is our glorious premier and No 1 is animal actor Jonny the Monkey, who dress like Humphrey Bogarts and smokes cigarettes.

What is the most exciting story you have covered for your station?

Last year, I cover the annual feast of Shurik -- this almost exact the same as your FA Cups Final. Only slight difference is instead of 80,000 people gather in arena for look on activity sportive, we have two millions shepherds who come down from the Tinshein Hills and gather in a field, where they get very drunk on ferment horse urine, then dig a big hole that they fill with dog and Uzbek. They then throw potato on them for two day, before comb each other's hair and return to hills.

Why did you decide to go to America?

I go to US and A for learn lessons for Kazakhstan, and this was great success. We now has democracy, just like Americas -- only slight difference is that instead of man with most votes who win, it is man who can suspend heaviest weight from his testes satchel. Our current premier can suspend a car battery for 8.4 seconds. Also, in America a woman can vote, but a horse cannot! Crazy! In Kazakhstan, only women allowed in our congress is prostitutes. We say that to give a womens power is like to give monkeys guns.

Very dangerous. We have stopped do this ever since the 2001 Astana Zoo massacre. Another positive things I take back to Kazakhstan from America was use of death penalty. We now also gives it for serious crimes, such as spitting or cleaning anoos with Kazakh flag.

Did you learn everything you needed to?

Yes, I learn all I ask to learn, but my premier had also instruct me to capture lady from the Pussycat Dolls and take her back to Kazakhstan for him. I fail in this, but did manage get the three young boys and cheeseboorger he also ask for.

What was the biggest surprise about the country?

I was very surprise to learn it is now illegal to shoot at Red Indians. Once again, I would like apologise with all my heart to the staff of the Potawatomi Casino in Kansas. Sorry. I was also very surprise to discover womens is permit to operate motorcar in US and A. This could never happen in Kazakhstan -- it too dangerous. We say that "to let woman drive a car is like to let monkey fly a plane". We do not allow this any more since 2003 Astana air crash.

What do you think of the American people?

I like them very much -- I make many new best friends. I like most the professor of driving I meet, although I was very nervous about travel alone in motorcar with another man. Only time this happen in Kazakhstan is to journey to edge of forest for make bang bang bang in anoos.

What was the best and worst thing that happened over there?

Best thing that I get to eat delicious American hamboorgers. First day I go to McDonald's, which is restaurant so fancypants, it actual have a separate for do toilet in! There I eat 17 hamboorgers and next day my anoos was hang loose like mouth of tired dog.

Would you like to go back, or maybe to live there?

I current cannot travel due to sex-crime misunderstanding, but once I prove the horse was consent and this resolve, I would like returning.

Is there anything Kazakhstan could learn from the USA? And vice versa?

Kazakhstan is glorious nation and is now very little that could be improve there. I invites all peoples of Great Britains to come visit and see how modern we now is. I recommend very much you stay at family resort, Astana Funworld, where there is luxury cages for the wifes, unlimited buffet of Turkmenistan prostitutes for the husbands and an enclosure where childrens can shoot squirrel, dog and gypsy.

How has your film been received in Kazakhstan?

This movie have already been release in Kazakhstan and was blockbusterings! It open simultaneous on all seven of our country's screens and take top spot from Hollywood movie King Kong -- which had been No 1 film in Kazakhstan ever since it was release in 1933. I would also recommend that people go see new Kazakh moviefilm Nomad, which a very accurates portrayal of how Kazakhstan was 50 years ago.

What are your ambitions now?

I not sure when I will be do my own next project, because for the next 18 months our country's camera is fully booked to make other television programmes. During this times, I am focus on showbizness career of my 11-year-old son, Bilak. He recent start as actor in Kazakh version of Teletubbies. He still very nervous about appear on camera -- especially for the sex scenes. I do not know why -- he have a magnificent chram, circumference 16.7cm. He should be proud to show it to the other childrens.

Do you have a message for the people of Britain?

Do not trust traitor of government, Yulkin Tulyakev.


The joke's on you

Borat Sagdiyev is a pig of a man: stupid, belligerent and charmless, according to His Excellency Erlan Idrissov, Kazakhstan's ambassador to the United Kingdom. He is also worthy of a Nobel Peace prize for having united in laughter wildly disparate elements of western political opinion. People who usually hate each other for the soundest of ideological reasons can be seen chuckling together whenever Borat appears. This is Sacha Baron Cohen's greatest triumph -- we all laugh at Borat and kid ourselves that it's okay for us to do so, because Baron Cohen really has our own respective ideological enemies in his sights.

The political right, those who fulminate against "political correctness gone mad", and who, when you engage them in conversation about important topics of the day, invariably end their discourse with a sad shake of the head and a rueful "You couldn't make it up", love Borat because at last someone is poking fun at stupid foreigners once again. It doesn't really matter that Borat is, specifically, a Kazakh -- anyone from that sort of country will do. He might as well be a Tajik, or a Moldovan, or an Albanian. Here is a chance to laugh at someone poorer, more stupid and less refined than the rest of us, who does not get the nuances of western civilisation, but who indubitably wishes that he did. Borat, with his crap imitation western suit and ludicrous moustache, is your stereotypical foreign moron as seen from the superior shores of ol' Blighty: desperately wishing to be like us, but missing by a mile. It is wholly believable that foreign monkeys such as Borat might drink fermented horse urine and keep their wives in cages. It's what one would expect -- and well done, Mr Baron Cohen, for reminding us all of this important point.

We have seen Borat's like before, remember. Manuel, the waiter from Fawlty Towers, for example: cringing, hopeless, mustachioed, thick as mince. We would not portray a Spaniard like that today -- it wouldn't ring true. We've been to Spain now, and have discovered that not all of them are incalculably stupid; furthermore, that old dictatorship has gone. They have a democracy now, proper drains and a health service. So, for a really good laugh, we cast our eyes in the direction of the twilight, further east. The Englishman mugged up as a dense, hilarious foreigner has been a staple of British humour dating back long before 1975 -- a sort of patronising and pseudo-benevolent racism. Peter Sellers singing Goodness Gracious Me; Michael Bates in boot polish singing Land of Hope and Glory to the titles of the dismal It Ain't Half Hot Mum. Borat, your right-wingers and soi-disant racists will aver, is in the fine tradition of English humour, dating back to that cheerful, Jew-bashing nun in Chaucer -- and all the better for that.

The liberals, meanwhile, love Borat because, of course, Baron Cohen is not remotely taking the piss out of Kazakhs, you know? In a way, it doesn't matter that he's a Kazakh. He could be a Tajik, or a Moldovan, or an Albanian; anyone who, through his unfamiliarity with western codes and mores, is able to unsettle our complacency and expose our inherent xenophobia and sexism. And unsettle, especially, those dreadful Americans, who, in addition to being sexist and xenophobic, are simultaneously triumphalist and utterly, utterly ignorant of world affairs. These backwoods Texan cretins probably think Kazakhstan is in Europe. (Part of it actually is, incidentally.) The joke isn't on the Kazakhs: it's on the Yanks and, by extension, us Brits.

Obviously, Kazakhs don't really live in yurts and count rape among their thin list of hobbies. What Baron Cohen is doing isn't crass and offensive racial stereotyping at all -- it's more Lenny Bruce than Al Jolson. Baron Cohen is himself from an ethnic minority, remember. He's using our subconscious racism as a means to poke fun at the bigoted and the politically blind. A bit like Johnny Speight did with Alf Garnett in Till Death Us Do Part. And if Borat becomes an accidental hero, and his loathsome values are admired among some sections of the population -- as happened with Garnett -- then the joke is still on us. Even more on us, you might argue.

I'm in the third group of people, who thoroughly enjoy Borat: the amoral ones, the people who will laugh brazenly at racist jokes (which Borat -- and Ali G, and quite a lot of the truly brilliant stuff from Ricky Gervais's Extras, and Banzai -- undoubtedly is), and will laugh even louder when our own preconceptions are ripped to bits and lampooned. It is my guess that Baron Cohen is similarly disposed, that his standpoint is: a fusillade of laughter upon all your houses -- I adhere to no political viewpoint, I find humour in everything. But then I suppose I would say that.

Rod Liddle

Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan is at the London Film Festival on October 25 and opens nationwide on November 3

The Sunday Times October 15, 2006

Kuba Kyrgyz:Related ... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Kuba Kyrgyz:
Related to the story you posted above from eurasianhome.org, registan.net (your post just before) also had this little tidbit to add
----------
http://www.registan.net/?p=6575

US Expels Two Kyrgyz Diplomats
Tit-for-tat (August 06, 2006):

"The American side, without providing any explanation, declared two staff members of Kyrgyzstan's embassy in the U.S.A. persona non grata in response to the deportation of two American diplomats from Kyrgyzstan in July," the ministry said.
The U.S. embassy declined to give an official comment, but an embassy source confirmed that two Kyrgyz diplomats had been declared persona non grata.

With a Manas deal sewn up, it looks like the US has finally gotten around to paying back Kyrgyzstan's government for its expulsion of to US embassy staff from Kyrgyzstan. According to RFE/RL's short report, six Kyrgyz security officers receiving training in the US may also have been asked to leave.
----------
Quite the little game of chess going on...

Chess Game: Opening. Hide a... (Below threshold)
Kuba Kyrgyz:

Chess Game: Opening. Hide and Seek Game

Ben Laden is hiding in Kyrgyzstan? or Kazakhstan?
Earlier this year, US White House Anti-terror Coordinator Richard Clarke claimed that Bin Laden is hiding somewhere in former soviet Central Asia.
And Central Asian States immediately refuted claim, saying "We ain't seen no Bin Laden".

SCO denies Bin Laden is in Central Asia
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200607/20/eng20060720_285081.html


Chess Game: Before Opening. Miracle Rooster

Allah's miracle rooster in Kyrgystan

Have you ever heard roosters? Sure you have. Who hasn't? A certain rooster in the Kyrgyz town of Osh, however, is something else. Its crow has already saved it from death. Owner Ibragim Ismatullayev, his neighbors from Tadjikskaya Street in the center of Osh, and local journalists maintain that the rooster is calling Allah.

This correspondent made a trip to Osh to see the wondrous rooster with his own eyes. Recalling numerous con-artists encountered in my career, I was fairly skeptical suspecting bluff or a money-extorting scheme. I even reconciled myself to listening to a speech of a religious fanatic with innumerable theological terms and moralizations. That was how I envisaged the owner of the rooster. Owners were quite hospitable and did not look like Hizb-ut-Takhrir fanatics to me. Informed of the purpose of my visit, they took me to the hen house. The rooster's crowing left me speechless indeed.

Click on http://news.ferghana.ru/archive/petux.mp3 to listen to the audio record made by Ferghana.Ru correspondents in early March 2006. Ferghana.Ru vouches for its authenticity.

Chess Game: Middle game. Miraculous Escape. There's no such thing as Bigfoot.

Jill Metzger went out for shopping. Unfortunately for her, she met Bigfoot and he abducted her. Or so she claimed.

USAF OSI agents organized a search&rescue operation to find her, but, alas, with no success. She was found by herself a few days later.

When reporters tried to ask her questions about her ordeal, her response was:
"I came to my senses in a cave. I could hear a stream nearby and there were rays of light coming down on me from a hole in the ceiling. Borat - that's how I called the creature afterwards - was sitting opposite me. He was baring his teeth, as if he was infuriated. I realized later that it was just his smile. The hairy animal came up to me and started sniffing my clothes. Then he roared and tore my clothes to pieces. My heart was about to explode with horror, but he continued sniffing me until his nose stopped near my groin. He roared again and threw himself over me."

When Jill woke up the next morning, she realized that she had become the prisoner and the wife of the hairy creature. When Borat was going out, he would cover the entrance to the cave with a big stone, leaving was no way for the Jill to escape. Borat would always bring something to eat - berries, nuts, mushrooms, eggs or raw meat. The terrible sex with the animal became a daily torture for Jill. However, the 'beauty and the beast' started developing a relationship. Borat showed interest in the girl's CD player. Jill had only one CD with her - best hits of the Michael Jackson.

One day, before leaving, Borat covered the entrance to the cave with the stone as usual, but did not notice a small gap that the stone left. It took a great effort for Jill to sneak outside, but when she finally succeeded to get out of the cave, she started running without making a stop. When she saw people in the Kant town, she finally realized that she was free.

"Her parents took Jill to our hospital, - Dr. Dolittle said. - The girl was mental; all I could hear from her was that she had been married to a Bigfoot for a year. She never managed to get used to home conditions. She was afraid of going out even during the day, she was terribly afraid of the dark. In addition, Jill could not eat normal food," the doctor said. One day Jill started recovering very fast both mentally and physically. She started eating, talking and even laughing. When doctors told her that she was getting better, Jill laughed and said that she had never been sick. She added that "he" knew where she was and that "he" would come to rescue her. Doctors considered such behavior the new stage of Jill's illness and decided to isolate her in a special room. However, the USAF major disappeared from her ward at night in the middle of November. Someone very strong pulled steel bars out of the