« Wizbang Weekend Caption Contest™ | Main | Detainee Interrogation Compromise Roundup »

Hugo Chavez' Citgo

I deliberately steer clear of Citgo gas stations because they are owned by Venezuela, i.e. Hugo Chavez. After Chavez came onto American soil, insulted America, and called President Bush the devil, you may also want to consider buying your gasoline somewhere other than Citgo, too, so as to not line Chavez' pockets any more than they already are.

From the Citgo company website:

The company is owned by PDV America, Inc., an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

And note this January 2006 article from USA Today about the influence Chavez has on American gasoline consumption:

But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."


The question of Chávez's influence over Citgo was highlighted by the company's recent provision of 25 million gallons of subsidized home-heating oil to poor people in the northeast USA. More than 100,000 households in four states should eventually benefit from the low-cost heating aid.

But some worry that Venezuela's ownership of more than 6% of U.S. refinery capacity gives Chávez, a former paratrooper given to wearing red berets and military fatigues, the power to cripple as well as comfort.

As Hurricanes Katrina and Rita demonstrated, any disruption to the nation's refining industry instantly increases gas prices. What if Chávez, who periodically threatens to curtail oil shipments to the USA, closed Citgo's refineries?

"He'd only have to do that for 90 days, and he'd destroy our economy," worries Matthew Simmons, a prominent energy investment banker. "He actually has our livelihood in his hands."

Others who are suggesting that you might want to purchase your gasoline elsewhere:

Captain Ed
Mark Tapscott


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Hugo Chavez' Citgo:

» The World According To Carl linked with Venezuela Owns Citgo?

» Stuck On Stupid linked with Boycott Citgo

» Stop The ACLU linked with Boycott Citgo

» The Bullwinkle Blog linked with They’re Catching Up

Comments (61)

An excellent job of illustr... (Below threshold)
Lee:

An excellent job of illustrating the failure of the Republican administration and Congress to adequately protect this country from this particular form of economic terrorism, Kim.

As Hurricanes Katrina and Rita demonstrated, any disruption to the nation's refining industry instantly increases gas prices. What if Chávez, who periodically threatens to curtail oil shipments to the USA, closed Citgo's refineries?

"He'd only have to do that for 90 days, and he'd destroy our economy," worries Matthew Simmons, a prominent energy investment banker. "He actually has our livelihood in his hands."

Imagine that - here we are at the mercy of a mad jackass in Venezuela -- and the greatest concern out of Washington is our ability to torture detainees...

Who voted for the clowns that are running this country of ours, and how far up their *ss can those voters bury their heads before they realize the mistake they've made, and do better in the next election?

Vote conservative if you wish, that's your right, but quit electing morons who are putting this country in this kind of jeopardy, please!

Oh, and I haven't read Chav... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Oh, and I haven't read Chavez's comments, but I am not aware of how -- as Kim puts it - Chavez "insulted America" in addition to calling Bush the Devil.

Did he really insult America, or is that just another lie?

He wouldn't have 90 days.</... (Below threshold)
Nahanni:

He wouldn't have 90 days.

Within 72 hours of any shinola of that nature out of Chavez all of Venezuela's assets in this country would be frozen and the government would take over those refineries. Venezuela won't see those assets again until ol' Hugo is dead and gone.

Sure, ol' Hugo can go crying to his Democratic buddies all he wants and they will not help him. Why? Because I do not think they are that stupid. The backlash against them would be so great they would all have to wear neckbraces. The MSM might try to spin the situation but it will have no effect. The other assorted LLL's, the Democratic nutroots and the race/identity organizations will foam at the mouth and try to pull their usual stuff but it will have little or no effect.

Of course ol' Hugo can get some commie lawyers in California to file a lawsuit in the nutty Ninth where he might win only to have it thrown out on appeal.

Lee, just because you can't... (Below threshold)
Tony:

Lee, just because you can't do two things at one time doesn't mean the administration can't. Go screw yourself you pompous ass.

I won't buy Citgo gas but s... (Below threshold)
JM:

I won't buy Citgo gas but sure do enjoy the big bucks I make when working in Vevezuela that comes out of Chavez's oil money profits. :-) The US really needs to build more Refineries and open up more fields to become less dependant on these Asshats for oil!

JM

I did not expect this from ... (Below threshold)
Bunker:

I did not expect this from any Pol in Boston, as a Red Sox fan, I wouldnt mind seeing the Citgo landmark come down:

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=158718

"Within 72 hours of any ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Within 72 hours of any shinola of that nature out of Chavez all of Venezuela's assets in this country would be frozen and the government would take over those refineries. Venezuela won't see those assets again until ol' Hugo is dead and gone."

So, Nahanni, you are saying this blogpost is Bullsh*t -- and we really aren't at the mercy of Chavez? Why would Kim lie about something as important as this?

but quit electing morons... (Below threshold)
Nahanni:

but quit electing morons who are putting this country in this kind of jeopardy, please!

A good start would be voting Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Boxer, Harkin, Murtha, Schumer, Clinton, Jackson-Lee, Rangel, Cantwell and "Bagdad" Jim McDermott out of office.

Lee,I have a porta... (Below threshold)
JM:

Lee,

I have a portable 7 ton chainfall I'd be willing to loan you to pull your head out of your *ss! You really don't have a clue do you? There is no way Chavez would cut off the US supply of oil. Its called money to stay in power you dummy. Where did you get your incredible base of political knowledge, Berkeley? You really need to take off those multi colored sun glasses Kerry gave you from the 60s.

JM

I find it difficult to beli... (Below threshold)
_Jon:

I find it difficult to believe that taking "6%" of the refineries offline for "90 days" would "cripple" our economy. Katrina did worse for longer and we're recovering rather well.

I doubt the FedGov would take over their assets, but I am certain that we would see a bill that would limit / prohibit such important assets from being wholly-owned by certain foreign countries like this. iirc, there was a similar measure considered in the Dubai Ports situation.


And, Lee - Kim didn't "lie". She quoted an investment banker who holds that opinion. Your attempt to twist plainly visible information is borderline trolling. Trolling is not welcome here.

So you say Kim quoted a lyi... (Below threshold)
Lee:

So you say Kim quoted a lying investment banker? Why would she choose to post lies, Jon? It wouldn't have anything to do with the upcoming elections now, would it?

Lee:Imagi... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Lee:

Imagine that - here we are at the mercy of a mad jackass in Venezuela

I know, and it's the Republicans fault, because if Democrats were in power we wouldn't need gas or oil, we would frolick to work throwing flowers and riding rainbows.

Let me break it down for you...if people like Chavez and Ahmadinejad actually like us...we're doing something wrong.

You make the most assanine statements.

Let's get back to an adult ... (Below threshold)

Let's get back to an adult discussion, shall we? Name calling is both contraproductive AND juvenile.

Boycotting Citgo gas is a good start to teaching Chavez that violating the basic rules of good manners for guests in someone's house is not acceptable. But then, he probably got the idea that it was okay for him to defame and insult the President of the United States from his many confabs with his beloved nutroots friend Cindy Sheehan, don't you think?

What the bomb throwers in this country do not seem to realize is that other nations do not understand the nature of our republic and honestly do believe the indiscriminate words of some overzealous and indiscriminate opponents of our President (as opposed to honest critics - and there is a vast difference) represent the views of all Americans. Certainly in their dictatorships, the kinds of speech we hear daily from the left in this country about the President of the United States would result in pretty dire consequences anywhere else in the world. As in a bullet to the head.

While I do NOT believe dissent should be stifled, the KINDS OF WORDS used should be considered carefully, lest we give a further false impression of our nation to the rest of the world.

"While I do NOT believe ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"While I do NOT believe dissent should be stifled, the KINDS OF WORDS used should be considered carefully,..."

Nice sentiment there, but if you back up a couple of sentences, you find this...

"What the bomb throwers in this country do not seem to realize..."

Bomnb throwers? People who disagree and say so in strong words are "bomb throwers" -- lol! I suggest you practice what you preach regarding your choice of words! Discussing honest disagreement among Americans in violent terms such as yours only gives aid to the enemy - they think there really is strong, violent opposition -- when in fact it is just good old American democracy in action.

You convervatives are waaaay over the top in the use of unkind words. Practice what you preach, and quit giving false hope to our enemies, Gayle.

apparently no one here know... (Below threshold)
sean nyc/aa:

apparently no one here knows how the oil markets work. boycotting citgo gas stations will in no way decrease venezuela's profits as long as gas demand remains unchanged. it will only hurt the station owners. it's called fungibility.

it's the same idea that if everyone boycotted exxon, that would drive prices down, which is completely untrue.

here a quick explanation. boycotting citgo (or exxon) means that other stations sell more gas. however, this increased demand at these stations means that the suppliers have to go elsewhere to find sufficient supplies. who might have extra supplies? why that would be citgo since everyone is boycotting them.

just because you go to a citgo or exxon station does not mean you are getting citgo or exxon gas. it just means they have a contract with that company to be supplied with gas in times of tight supply ahead of independent stations who buy on the spot market.

so go ahead and boycott citgo if you want, it don't make a lick of difference as long as you don't decrease demand.

Yeah, screw Citgo and Venez... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

Yeah, screw Citgo and Venezuela! I'll fill mah' tank wit sum' Ay-Rab Oil!! Yeeeah!!

sean,Excellent poi... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

sean,

Excellent points and all very true.

Chavez had it easy. All he ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Chavez had it easy. All he did was combine the degrading childish (or mentally retarded) remarks of the democrats and spew them out. At least he knows where he and the a-hole from Iran are going. Hope he likes the smell of sulfur because if President Bush is the devil they are facing a raging fire and will be fed in an inch at a time starting at the toes.
Anyone notice that some of the democrats have realized they have went too far with the slime and are trying to slither out of it like the snakes they are.

Seriously...who really care... (Below threshold)
Drew:

Seriously...who really cares what Chavez says?
His petty school yard name calling means nothing..
Now Alphonso Johnson getting busted at HUD deserves attention...

I understand sean's points,... (Below threshold)
_Jon:

I understand sean's points, but effecting a change at a local level is something that should be persued. If the local Citgo station has a prolonged decrease in sales, it is likely to cause him to change to another distributor. Applied across a wide swath of US cities, that *will* have an adverse effect on the profitability of Citgo as a company.

Granted, we are not decreasing our demand for oil or gasoline. And it is likely that a Citgo refinery produces the gas used by other stations, so they are probably not going to be effected much.

But there are many facets to the situation and this is one where a change can be made by voting with the wallet.

If there is decreased demand for Citgo-branded stations, there will be fewer Citgo-branded stations. That's how capitalism works.

Bunker, I heard about the B... (Below threshold)
cmd:

Bunker, I heard about the Boston Citgo sign kerfuffle this morning on my way to work. It was funny to hear people whining about how the sign couldn't be taken down and replaced with an American flag because it "has been there for so many years" or because "it's a tradition." I guarantee you that if you tried to support keeping a sign with the Confederate flag using those arguments, these same people would screech like banshees.

In any event, I think the sign will stay up. Why? It's Massachusetts. Most people here are like Lee, and they think one of two things -

1. No American flag. We wouldn't want people to think we support Chimpy McBushitler!

2. We agree with Chavez. Viva!!

If there is decreased de... (Below threshold)
sean nyc/aa:

If there is decreased demand for Citgo-branded stations, there will be fewer Citgo-branded stations. That's how capitalism works.
Jon

True, but chavez will still be making a handy profit because citgo will still be refining the oil to gas and just sell it to these other branded stations. the only way to decrease chavez's and OPEC's profits is to decrease demand. that's why I bike (bus in the winter) to work and fill up my tank about once a month. I realize not everyone has this option, but we certainly have the option to demand more fuel efficient cars. This is the least we can sacrifice to help the war effort and wean our dependence on oil, considering how little Bush has asked of the general public.

Oh CMD, how sad to see you ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Oh CMD, how sad to see you lying about me - saying I agree with Chavez - total falsehood. I labeled Chavez a troll when he made those remarks about Bush being the Devil.

Are all conservatives liars by nature, or just the ones 'round here?

I agree with you sean in th... (Below threshold)
_Jon:

I agree with you sean in that he will still make money on the oil and refining - *someone* will buy his oil and the gas refined in his plants. But - like you - most people want to help in any way they can. And if putting a hurt on the "Citgo Franchise" of gas stations in the US does that, I'm for it.

I don't have the option of biking - my daughter cares for horses. Horses need trailers and trailers need trucks. But - through your choices that consume less energy - people like me have less cost for fuel. So, I appreciate your choices.

Lee: Anyone who calls the ... (Below threshold)

Lee: Anyone who calls the President of the United States "Hitler" as is regularly done by the leftwing in this country, deserves the appellation of "bomb thrower" in my opinion - an opinion to which I am fully entitled!

Does this mean we can refer... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Does this mean we can refer to Citgo now as Shitgo?

Hitler was morally bankrupt... (Below threshold)
Desi:

Hitler was morally bankrupt, but competent...ruthless and evil, but fairly well organized.

Bush just isn't a very competent -- despite the MBA. He's also not evil or morally bankrupt, just not a very good manager. Fortunately for him, he has a legion of incredibly faithful supporters.

Gayle - that's just another... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Gayle - that's just another lie. I fact-checked claims about the left's use of "Bushitler" a few months ago, for example, after numerous comments like yours were made here at Wizbang. I posted the results here as well. Turned out the only users of "Bushitler" at Wizbang were conservative commenters who were using it to talk down about liberals.

So I went to KOS and did a search there - and I only found one use, and it was satire if I recall correctly.

Your continued false claims are only aiding and abetting the enemies of our country. The degree of discord you and people like you claim against the left is false, and it only empowers nutcakes like Chavez.

I ask again that you and conservatives stop encouraging the enemies of our country to believe there is violent discord and disagreement in our nation. There isn't - it's just Democracy in action. It's a shame some people don't recognize that for what it is - but apprently lying about it instead serves some political purpose for Republicans... gee - that's a surprise.

Well, this series of exchan... (Below threshold)
_Jon:

Well, this series of exchanges reminds me of why I don't read the comments here at Wizbang.

In this case a single a single troll refers to the author and many other commenters as "liar", then proceeds to continually attempt to drag the conversation off-topic.

Kevin, I hope that you take the time to gain control of the comments. I learn a lot from the articles posted, but for now I'm going to return to posting comments elsewhere and pasting snippets I've gleaned from here. I love to discuss and debate, but I'm not willing to wade through trolls.

Yes, it's a fine line and a difficult situation to manage. But if a site is willing to enable comments, then it is something that needs to be done. :/

Lee, The Bush-Hitl... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Lee,

The Bush-Hitler-ism is an abstraction and a cynical exaggeration...but it's not an untrue analysis of what many on the far left have said. You'll see it all over moonbat signs, you may hear it escape the lips of both extreme liberals and fascist dictators alike.

The comparison has been made enough that it's been picked up by the right.

Now I know you knew that, but since you're just trolling for a response from Gayle rather than participating in honest debate, I figured I take a minute or two to put out there.

The other two paragraphs of your post aren't worth commenting on; they're just weak attempt at turning conservative arguments against conservatives.

Jon,Lee is famous ... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Jon,

Lee is famous for that. Other than him and the occasional visitor, we seem to have some good discussions with varying shades of the political spectrum participating.

Americans not buying their ... (Below threshold)
JM:

Americans not buying their gas from Citgo will not cause any significant impact on Chavez's oil profits. He has been meeting with China regarding major investments by them in Venezuela's infrastructure. As in large power plants and other future needs of his country. The Chinese are also involved (big time) in marketing future suppliers of crude oil for their explosive growth (Thanks to their goods flooding the US market creating Billions of dollars in their economy). Venezuela is ramping up their production to meet the future needs of China for crude. This plan is staged for the next five years. If we stop buying their oil, no problem. China will quickly move in and take all the oil we aren't buying from them on a permanent basis. Venezuela is planning on buying Chinese built tankers to transport the crude to China in the near future. So, it really won't hurt Chavez if you boycott Citgo. It will more than likely hurt Americans at the pumps. If Venezuela stops supplying the US with oil the powers that be will parade an oil shortage and there go the crude prices again. But of course, your opinion and milage may vary.

JM

You all suck. I will boycot... (Below threshold)
jack:

You all suck. I will boycott BP and Exxon Mobil only fill up my gas tank at CITGO. Chavez is also going to give 40% off to low-income families. And HUGO CHAVEZ did not insult Americans but George Bush-the tyrant and dictator.

"And HUGO CHAVEZ did not... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"And HUGO CHAVEZ did not insult Americans but George Bush-the tyrant and dictator."

Yeah, that's what I thought too - but I figured I would give the conservatives the benefit of the doubt and ask, and to not just leap to the assumption that Kim's statement that Chavez insulted America was a lie.

That'll teach me.

jack,Do you seriou... (Below threshold)
JM:

jack,

Do you seriously think that Chavez will give 40% off to American low income families. ROTFL! Do you believe Citgo stations will lose money to give you cheap gas. The actual profit at the gas pump is less than 10%. It appears Libs believe the gas just magically goes from the ground to the pump. PDVSA does sell very cheap gas (at a big loss ) in Venezuela. And 75% of "his" people buying the gas are the dirt poor group that elected him to be the dictator. In Venezuela gas is less that 20 cents a gallon. So I would suggest you move down there and take Lee with you. :-) You may not enjoy the country as much as Cindy though.

JM

Chavez is why we should hea... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Chavez is why we should heavily invest in our domestic oil reserves.

The moment oil drops below $50/barrel, Venezuela loses every dime it's making. It's crap costs quite a bit to refine.

And nice to see Jack embrace a thug simply because he hates Bush so much. It's amazing the thugs progressives will embrace. I am shocked you're not asking how Chavez will actually know which Americans are "low income".
-=Mike
...You didn't see conservatives embracing Milosevic...

You people calling Chavez a... (Below threshold)
fizzbing:

You people calling Chavez a thug--look in the mirror. Pot, meet kettle.

Oh, and VIVA CHAVEZ, you ri... (Below threshold)
fizzbing:

Oh, and VIVA CHAVEZ, you right-wing losers.

Bush is the Devil! In my Op... (Below threshold)
Michael Becker:

Bush is the Devil! In my Opinion!
I believe he was behind the 9/11 "terrorist attacks" and the "pentagon attack" orchestrated by the Devil, not Osama Bin Lama. WOW! TRUE!
But American minds are closed... they need outside agencies to cause these dastardly deeds!
I am an American Patriot. I do not lie! I love the United States, I believe We have lost control over our government! So does Hugo Chavez!

Wow.Just wow.<br /... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Wow.

Just wow.
-=Mike

Kim,I like the pat... (Below threshold)
johnmc:

Kim,

I like the patriotic fervor really I do. But I have to point out that boycotts of CITGO may or may not affect them at all. Here are the reasons why:

[] Fuels are a fungible product. That is 1 tank of gas is the same as another tank of gas.
[] 95% of the fuels in this country are transported by pipeline. Citgo or Exxon dumps a 1000gal of gas in the pipeline in New Orleans, they withdraw a 1000gal in New York + a transport fee. There is no distinction of 'whose' gas it is in the pipeline. Were you to go to a distribution point you would see citgo, exxon, mobil trucks all lined up getting a pick up for delivery.
[] You may impact incidential retail sales at the citgo station. But gas? Ok so you bought it from Exxon. But if the tank of gas you just acquired came from the citgo refinery they are just as happy sans the double mocha latte.

I love boycotts when they are effective. I am afraid this is NOT one of those times. Citgo is still making a profit even if other firms are selling 'their' gas.

Something to consider.

Chavez is a great leader. Y... (Below threshold)
R:

Chavez is a great leader. You may think that Venezuela should be ruled by someone like Carlos Andres Perez, whose austerity measures (despite the oil wealth) caused food riots that led him to gun hundreds of people down to death in the streets.

Those killings were not unlike what went on in Beijing that same year, 1989, though very few people have heard about it, interestingly enough.

You may think that Venezuela should be led by such leadership. The people of Venezuela, however, think otherwise as they vote for Chavez again and again and again.

Yes, Chavez just steals ele... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Yes, Chavez just steals elections and silences all critics. You know, the stuff you falsely claim Bush does.

What a guy.

Why do you progressives have such hard-one for thugs and dictators?
-=Mike

Chavez has no need to steal... (Below threshold)
R:

Chavez has no need to steal elections, as he is by far the most popular leader in his country.

Had he had the need to steal elections, he would not have survived the 2002 Bush-sponsered coup, and would not have survived the oil shutdown of 2002-03. He got through these things because the people were with him, and unlike other previous victims, had substantial support in the armed forces.

An estimated 3,000 people were shot down by the security forces in February 1989 by Carlos Andres Perez. Don't claim that Chavez ever did anything like that.

By the way, Venezuela, like... (Below threshold)
R:

By the way, Venezuela, like other recently targeted countries like Ortega's Nicaragua and Milosevic's Yugoslavia, is a strikingly, almost absurdly free country. Openly treasonous forces can control much of the mass media, where they say the most outrageous things against the president and even openly participate in coup attempts. The coup plotters barely got a slap on the wrist. This shows a remarkable faith in the power of the people and of the grass-roots institutions set up during the Bolivarian revolution.

Chavez has no need to st... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Chavez has no need to steal elections, as he is by far the most popular leader in his country.

Yet he did so.

A 36 point swing in exit polling does seem just a wee bit inexplicable.

Had he had the need to steal elections, he would not have survived the 2002 Bush-sponsered coup, and would not have survived the oil shutdown of 2002-03.

Yes, because thugs never manage to survive bad economic times. I mean, Cuba has been gold since Castro got there and he's not been replaced...

...ah, that's right, it's what happens when opposition is silenced.

The left, yet again, embraces totalitarian thugs. No different than the embrace of the Soviet Union.

He got through these things because the people were with him, and unlike other previous victims, had substantial support in the armed forces.

Funny, the people don't seem to be doing terribly well in Venezuela.

By the way, Venezuela, like other recently targeted countries like Ortega's Nicaragua and Milosevic's Yugoslavia, is a strikingly, almost absurdly free country.

Wow, defending Milosevic now? Stunning.

And, if Nicaragua under Ortega was "free" --- he wouldn't have been voted out of office so utterly the first time the voters had a chance to oust him.

Openly treasonous forces can control much of the mass media, where they say the most outrageous things against the president and even openly participate in coup attempts.

Wow, sounds like the US.

BTW, it wasn't a coup. It was actually a very popular uprising.

The left, as always, embraces thugs because, to the left, nobody is worse than the U.S.A.

Which is why your side can't get majorities in Presidential elections.
-=Mike

Citgo wanted to take down t... (Below threshold)
Gallagher:

Citgo wanted to take down the sign in the 80's and it was the city of Boston that was against it. I'm sure they'll be happy to take it down. I don't care one way or another. Chavez is not right on many things but he was right on one thing. Screw Bush - his kind does not care for the liberal city of Boston. John Kerry is my president. Maybe we should put Kerry's picture over the Citgo sign.

Are you the same ignorant k... (Below threshold)
Issac Hayes:

Are you the same ignorant kkk rednecks that used to boycott french wine and cheese. Learn to think for yourself, at least for once in your lives, please!!!

The first time the voters h... (Below threshold)
R:

The first time the voters had to oust Ortega was 1984. They did not do so. The only reason they did so in 1990 was because Bush the Elder made it clear that the Contra War would only end if they voted the right way. It was an election with a gun pointed at everyone's heads. Moreover, there was an economic blockade imposed since 1985 that also led people to "cry uncle", as the Reagan Administration so tactfully put it.

If the 2002 coup was a popular uprising, where were the throngs demonstrating for the coup plotters, and why is it that the combination of this people power and those military who participated in the coup, with Bush behind them, insufficient to hold on to power? Such would have been an irresistible force.

People in Venezuela are doing better than in 1989, in any case, when there were food riots and hundreds were shot down in the streets, under a previous Washington-approved regime.

Yugoslavia under Milosevic was an extremely free country. There were howls of outrage when Vojislav Seselj in 2000 described B92 as a "treacherous medium", yet nothing was done to curtail its clearly treasonous programme. It received money from enemies of Serbia and this was not stopped. Milosevic obviously believed in his message and did not stop the opponents from broadcasting theirs.

Many towns in Serbia since 1997 were controlled by opposition politicians who openly worked with NATO powers, those who bombed the country, and NATO powers financed media with the purpose of overthrowing the government in order to rob the country blind under a pro-Western regime, as happened. As one of the members of the new regime put it, "We don't expect anyone to be happy with our government".

There was less media variety under the new regime than there was under Milosevic and Milosevic, who shied away from the media glare, was replaced by Vojislav Kostunica who was openly shoved down people's throats in some kind of cult of personality during the so-called democratic rule.

Of course this was designed partly to deflect attention to the real leader of Serbia in this time, the reviled Zoran Djindjic, who would not have won an election himself. He later was shot dead in a mafia war as he was a close associate of a gangster, Stanko Subotic Cane.

Do the American media personalities and programmes at all compromise national security, do they openly support forces that threaten the United States? I can't think of one. The New York Times mentioning secret torture prisons does not count, in my opinion, as knowledge of this does not at all affect the security of the United States. There are no treacherous media in the US, except perhaps those that promote Israel first, and in this way promote Arab enmity, as a result of this irrational and ostentatious service of what is a foreign country.

By the way, Dick Cheney was a director of JINSA, an agency of a foreign government, as were many in the Bush administration. If you are looking for traitors, perhaps you may look no further than these foreign agents. That Bush should have known that he was appointing foreign agents to high office is a fact, and that he did so should serve to make people doubt his own loyalty to his country.

The first time the voter... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

The first time the voters had to oust Ortega was 1984. They did not do so.

It was a sham election. Opposition parties didn't run as they knew it was a total sham.

The only reason they did so in 1990 was because Bush the Elder made it clear that the Contra War would only end if they voted the right way. It was an election with a gun pointed at everyone's heads.

That's a laughable --- and quite incorrect --- assertion.

If the 2002 coup was a popular uprising, where were the throngs demonstrating for the coup plotters, and why is it that the combination of this people power and those military who participated in the coup, with Bush behind them, insufficient to hold on to power? Such would have been an irresistible force.

The military didn't like the guy placed in power, either. They felt he was no better. So they turned on him.

People in Venezuela are doing better than in 1989, in any case, when there were food riots and hundreds were shot down in the streets, under a previous Washington-approved regime.

That is quite incorrect, as you well know.

Do the American media personalities and programmes at all compromise national security, do they openly support forces that threaten the United States?

Yes, very much so. Blatantly and openly treasonous and they openly support our enemies.

The New York Times mentioning secret torture prisons does not count, in my opinion, as knowledge of this does not at all affect the security of the United States. There are no treacherous media in the US, except perhaps those that promote Israel first, and in this way promote Arab enmity, as a result of this irrational and ostentatious service of what is a foreign country.

Oh great, another anti-Semite from the left. Damn you people hate Jews.

By the way, Dick Cheney was a director of JINSA, an agency of a foreign government, as were many in the Bush administration. If you are looking for traitors, perhaps you may look no further than these foreign agents. That Bush should have known that he was appointing foreign agents to high office is a fact, and that he did so should serve to make people doubt his own loyalty to his country.

So, why do you hate Jews so much?
-=Mike

The independent observers b... (Below threshold)
R:

The independent observers branded the 1984 Nicaraguan election as free and fair. The Reagan Administration, knowing that the pro-Contra parties would lose, encouraged them to boycott. That was their problem. That election was more fair than that of 1990 when a sham "peace process" yielded the simple ultimatum; get the Sandinistas out or pay.

As I said, had Chavez been so awful and unpopular and the people all for the coup, the coup would have been an irresistable force, particularly with Bush an enthusiastic supporter. The military surely would have preferred backing the will of the hegemon (and the military aid, training, ties and junkets etc), along with that of the people, rather than throw it all away over matters that could easily be solved post-coup.

In Haiti, the Bush administration was able to easily overthrow Aristide despite the massive support he maintained and this was expressed through the election of Rene Preval this year to the shock and horror of many responsible for the Haiti policy. All they needed were some paramilitaries, economic warfare and the existence of cracks in Aristide's support base.

As for conditions in Venezuela, the elite did continue to run the country into the ground after 1989 and then, during the Chavez era, there was the coup attempt and the attempt to sabotage the economy to get rid of Chavez. By the way, the second action should have been enough to get rid of Chavez if indeed he was as unpopular and awful as claimed. Right now, things are improving thanks to high oil prices, people like to say.

Of course they never mention these oil prices when the issue of PAN-ruled Mexico is brought up as it would show how embarassingly anemic growth is in that country, an embarassment of a regime whose only policy is to send as many people as possible to El Norte.

Who are the so-called enemies that the media in the US supports and how can these enemies supported by media harm the United States and its national security? And I am not talking about its right to rule other countries here, I'm talking about the security of the average citizen.

It figures you throw the anti-semitism canard, well, I just look at things objectively here. It is wrong when AIPAC is under a spy probe, that American politicians and members of the administration go to the great AIPAC rally and pledge their undying faith to AIPAC and to Israel, which is, dare I say, a foreign country.

This is bipartisan, with that Pelosi even saying that the alliance with Israel will be "forever and ever", no matter what. Then there was Clinton who went to some meeting in Canada who vowed to pick up a rifle, to fight and die for Israel when he wouldn't even fight for his own country's army.

Israel and the United States are seperate countries, never forget that. Remember that Netanyahu said on Sept 11, 2001, that the attacks were "very good". Beware any relationship where the partner benefits from your misery. Israel certainly counts as such a partner. It's about time that this so-called eternal friend, who bombed the USS Liberty and strafed its lifeboats, is treated like any other country and is judged on criteria other than some religious heresy (Darbyism) that worships it as a God's instrument on Earth, or as representative of a sacred people who were wronged in the Holocaust, seen as a sort of crucifixion of a people who rose again in 1948 to judge the living and the dead.

You people must wonder about the committment of your government to stopping terrorism. These administration officials, tightly bound to Israel, even wrote in a manifesto their desire for a 911-type event one year before it happened. The reason; an excuse to attack Israel's enemies. They want terrorism, they need terrorism and so is it a shock that the intelligence estimate says that the administration is increasing the threat of terrorism?

Remember when Ariel Sharon took power in Israel in 2001? There were no suicide bombings at all up until then in the second intefada. There were over 300 unarmed civilians gunned down in cold blood by the Israelis in the name of "restoring the deterrence power" after they fled from Lebanon, and of course because of the ultra-stingy "generous offer", Clinton's brutal betrayal of Arafat who was promised that he would not be blamed if Camp David, that he didn't want to attend, failed, etc.

Anyway, what did Sharon do? He cut off the links between Israel and Palestinian Preventative Security in order to end the mechanism designed to prevent attacks in Israel. He then attacked Preventative Security personnel and Palestinian police, and bombed police stations and prisons. Then he waited anxiously for the parade of suicide bombers.

Whenever the suicide bombings stopped for a time, Sharon would send a missile into a car with a prominent Hamas or Islamic Jihad leader. He had to keep them going. The payoff was 2002's brutal "Operation Defensive Shield". Had Milosevic done such things in Kosovo, Belgrade certainly would have been wiped out.

That election was more f... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

That election was more fair than that of 1990 when a sham "peace process" yielded the simple ultimatum; get the Sandinistas out or pay.

Even the Carter Center, puppet to leftist thugs, said the 1990 election was completely clean and fair.

In Haiti, the Bush administration was able to easily overthrow Aristide despite the massive support he maintained and this was expressed through the election of Rene Preval this year to the shock and horror of many responsible for the Haiti policy.

Nobody overthrew that thug Aristide. He simply didn't lift a finger to save the psychopath. Why SHOULD we help him? He's useless to us and an embarassment to the world.

We shouldn't be protecting thugs. Aristide was overthrown by popular revolt and good for him.

Who are the so-called enemies that the media in the US supports and how can these enemies supported by media harm the United States and its national security? And I am not talking about its right to rule other countries here, I'm talking about the security of the average citizen.

When you're revealing intel operations that have zero impact on Americans, you are openly and blatantly supporting the opposition.

It figures you throw the anti-semitism canard, well, I just look at things objectively here. It is wrong when AIPAC is under a spy probe, that American politicians and members of the administration go to the great AIPAC rally and pledge their undying faith to AIPAC and to Israel, which is, dare I say, a foreign country.

Again, feel free to hate the Jews. You won't be alone on the left.

Israel and the United States are seperate countries, never forget that. Remember that Netanyahu said on Sept 11, 2001, that the attacks were "very good".

Again, thanks for the virulent anti-Semitism. We know the left is bad about that. Tell us next about how Jews were warned not to be at work that day as well.

These administration officials, tightly bound to Israel, even wrote in a manifesto their desire for a 911-type event one year before it happened.

Mis-representing what was said --- but you're an anti-Semite, so it's expected.

There were over 300 unarmed civilians gunned down in cold blood by the Israelis in the name of "restoring the deterrence power" after they fled from Lebanon, and of course because of the ultra-stingy "generous offer", Clinton's brutal betrayal of Arafat who was promised that he would not be blamed if Camp David, that he didn't want to attend, failed, etc.

Yes, the offer Israel made was "stingy". You seem to believe that lengthy responses cover up just how much you hate the Jews.

Whenever the suicide bombings stopped for a time, Sharon would send a missile into a car with a prominent Hamas or Islamic Jihad leader. He had to keep them going. The payoff was 2002's brutal "Operation Defensive Shield". Had Milosevic done such things in Kosovo, Belgrade certainly would have been wiped out.

Your disregard to reality makes a serious reply to you a waste of time and energy.

You hate Jews. We got it.
-=Mike

Netanyahu said that 911 was... (Below threshold)
R:

Netanyahu said that 911 was very good on live TV, apparently, to Judy Woodroof of CNN as the dust was still spewing over the battery.

The September 12 2001 New York Times reported that little indiscretion. Comparing this to the claim that Jews were warned in advance is absurd to say the least.

Israel's offer was so stingy that it is the sort of thing that would help revive anti-Semitic stereotypes. It offered what is unprecedented in world history, two-dimensional sovereignty. The airspace belongs to Israel, the water belongs to Israel, not to mention the borders and the ports, all to be closed at Israel's slightest whim. That's more miserly than Scrooge.

Gunning people down because they didn't accept the "offer" suggests that they knew that they were trying to mug the Palestinians and when the Palestinians refused to give up their money, the Israelis decided to take their lives.

Interesting that you say that these intel operations have no effect on Americans. Therefore, these are not important to American security and releasing info on them is not at all treasonous.

Those who release the info are in fact patriots as they help keep a watch on a government that thinks it can commit any crime in the name of the American people, without their consent. People like you may approve of such crimes, and perhaps there is a majority favouring such crimes, but at least people should know about them so that they can make up their minds on it.

Right now, we have the spectacle of Bush running openly on promoting torture. Though this is a sick spectacle, it is necessary to have this all out in the open.

By the way, you do accept that Israel is a foreign country, do you?

It's amazing how much in the way of policy is completely out of play, completely pre-determined and immutable, despite its being completely insane. Sick religious extremism that claims that ethnically cleansing Palestine and setting up a Jewish armed camp there is a prerequisite for the Second Coming has done a lot of damage to the world over the years.

Hey Lee,The Repubs t... (Below threshold)
Dan:

Hey Lee,
The Repubs tried to open ANWR to replace some of this third world oil dependency, but the Dems voted it down. Oil exploration in US territory has been all but shut down altogether by the EPA and their Democrat lackies. So, you think we should vote these morons into power? Don't think so.

Third World oil dependency ... (Below threshold)
R:

Third World oil dependency is a myth. What do you think these people are going to do with the oil, drink it? They have to sell it. If they sell it, it's available and so this paranoid fantasy about the Third World destroying the US with oil is just that. I suppose that this is a case of projection; knowing what American governments do to the Third World and Arabs, etc, many just ask the question "What would I do if I was them", and the answer would be "provide a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud", or "destroy their economy and everything else". It's a good thing that these Third World people aren't as insane as that.

If there were such things as Arab neocons and if they ran the Arab world the death toll in the US would be far more than the 3,000-odd deaths of 9/11.

Please review my blog to se... (Below threshold)

Please review my blog to see a boycott that I have started over Citgo. I'm working together with another organization that is also coordinating a boycott. Click here for more details.

as someone who does know wh... (Below threshold)

as someone who does know what Chavez is, the moron selling his sould for discount heating oil should read what the "poor" in his own country get.

Political prisons, 17% food inflation, 30% unemployment, and permission to build homes in the streets from scraps.

sny moron who think This guy loves the poor, should stay quiet until after they learn about what goes down when this Chavez fuknut gets his way.

Start here, the only source being writen inside of Caracas currently.

Unlike the fake Propaganda blogs written in Cuba on the web.

But look at the idiots posting here who belive the Chavez propaganda. Oh yeah he loves the poor, loves to shoot themwith buckshot when they march perhaps

Start here newbs:
http://www.vcrisis.com

Check back in when you know more about this murdering fool.

and for those who think he just called bush names.
Try other quotes Loosely translated:

"he wishes he could have fought with General zapata against america " told to Mexican media.

"If the Us Invades Cuba, Venezuela will not sit on their hands... and US blood will run"

My FAV - "Viva Iran! Viva Iran, togetehr with our brothers we will detroy the American Empire!"


Still think he doesnt hate you too morons?

"People in Venezuela are... (Below threshold)

"People in Venezuela are doing better than in 1989, in any case, when there were food riots and hundreds were shot down in the streets, under a previous Washington-approved regime."

You moron, you mean when it was 30 bolivares to 1 dollar? Now its 3300 to one dollar? You mean when inflation was 6 % when its now 17+?

Dont speak when you aparently dont know shit about what goes on there.

yeah this is better life with these people in charge, you idiot.

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/images3/venezuela/fire_their_guns_long.jpe

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/images3/venezuela/wounded_woman.jpe

Nobody was ever arrested and witness said the shooters were not local and thought to be cuban.

All I know is that the IMF ... (Below threshold)
R:

All I know is that the IMF gave orders that the poor be subjected to more "belt tightening", Carlos Andres Perez gleefully accepted, people complained, and Perez had them killed. This in an oil-rich country. Shameful.

At least Venezuelan today has sovereignty, and is not obeying sharks like the IMF. Indeed, they helped get Argentina out of a jam, causing great anger as those sharks at the IMF had Argentina just where they wanted them and to see them escape the trap like that is sort of like when Rick in Casablanca paid off that woman and freed her from having to spend a night with Captain Renault.

Perhaps you are mad that people who are not white are having some say in running things. That's your problem. The chickens have come home to roost.

Some of you just don't unde... (Below threshold)
Informed Citizen:

Some of you just don't understand the situation at hand. By boycotting LOCAL gas stations, you are doing absoluetly nothing but running Ol' Ma and Pa out of business.

"...Third World oil depende... (Below threshold)
Vic:

"...Third World oil dependency is a myth. What do you think these people are going to do with the oil, drink it? They have to sell it. If they sell it, it's available and so this paranoid fantasy about the Third World destroying the US with oil is just that..."

I respond: Chavez doesn't need U.S. oil business with China and India's ravenous growing need for oil.

Perhaps, U.S. oil corporations should lower their prices as indicative of their "patriotism." Yeah, right, sure they will. The hungry parasitic bastards that initiated the war in Iraq in order to steal another sovereign nation's natural resources, OIL, predicated on lies such as weapons of mass destruction and non existing Al Qaeda links.

3,000 plus dead American soldiers. Mission Accomplished, indeed, Moron-in-Chief.

"...as someone who does know what Chavez is, the moron selling his sould for discount heating oil should read what the "poor" in his own country get. Political prisons, 17% food inflation, 30% unemployment, and permission to build homes in the streets from scraps..."

I respond: What a crock. The truth is that the legitimately elected president of Venezuela, whom the CIA & Christian fundamentalist Ayatola Pat Robertson would like to assassinate, uses his country's oil profits to help Venezuela's poor, hungry and illiterate as well as American poor who have been ignored by the Moron-in-Chief and U.S. bloodsucking corporations who, by the way, prefer to export American jobs overseas and leave U.S. citizens unemployed. How patriotic.

The following link informs as to President Hugo Chavez' use of his country's oil profits in favor of his country's poor.


http://blogs.smh.com.au/thecontrarian/archives/2005/11/hugo_chavez_res_1.html

"...Yesterday, President Chavez, whose popularity at home runs to over 70 percent despite an aborted Bush-backed coup more than three years ago, announced he would send 45 million litres of petrol to the US state of Massachusetts to be sold at deeply discounted rates to America's poor...

...Chavez is a common figure of hatred on the right because his government has unambiguously taken the side of Venezuela's poor, pumping money into such basic services as food aid, health clinics and education in the barrios. The country's elite and middle classes have finally been asked to start paying taxes and, obviously, they resent him for it...

...Chavez has also decided to put his nation's oil wealth at the service of his fellow citizens, rather than allow a few plutocrats to control the industry for their own enrichment, as was previously the case. This offends the moral sensibilities of Bush, who has spent his entire life enjoying the sponsorship of rich men trying to ingratiate themselves with his pappy and who were happy to bail him out of all the businesses he bungled.

Now Chavez is showing Americans how to govern with genuine fairness and justice. While their own president tries to game the system and direct billions of US taxpayer dollars to his buddies in the Texas gas and oil industry, especially the Halliburton corporation (which has now got its snout into the hurricane reconstruction as well as in Iraq), Chavez is becoming a genuine statesman..."




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

tips@wizbangblog.com

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy