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Dems Need More Than Blustery Bill Clinton To Convince Security Voters

My Townhall column today is a response to Hillary Clinton's comments earlier this week that her husband's administration would have done more than the current one if they had seen a classified document saying bin Laden was determined to strike in the U.S.

...her hubby didn't need a classified report to tell him that bin Laden was determined to attack inside the U.S. He already knew it because we had already been attacked by al Qaeda on U.S. soil -- at the World Trade Center in 1993.

Bob Owens responded similarly to Hillary Clinton's statement, but with specifics I'd never heard. Owens described the 1993 World Trade Center attack as the "first-and-to-date only WMD attack in America by al Qaeda and Iraq-affiliated terrorists."

In the column I quote extensively from Bob Owens' excellent post at Confederate Yankee. Read his entire post if you have not already. He makes some excellent points about the 1993 bombing and the Clinton reaction (or non-reaction) to it, including the fact that the WTC 1993 bombmaker was an Iraqi and that the bomb included a chemical component.

Owens states the fact that Hillary Clinton's husband hoped to disguise with bluster: "Bill Clinton was President of the United States when lower Manhattan was the victim of an al Qaeda plot executed by an Iraqi bomb-builder who detonated a chemical/conventional weapon under tens of thousands of Americans. President Clinton later knew what the bomb was composed of, knew how it was intended to be used, and what threat al Qaeda posed...Bill Clinton was President for another 7 years, 10 months, 25 days after this attack."


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Comments (73)

Link: <a href="http://www.o... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Link: Clinton administration warned incoming Bush administration of AQ danger

More: Clinton Addresses the Nation, 20 August 1998. Full transcript of President Clinton's two different announcements of actions taken against Bin Laden's network. The first announcement was made earlier in the day when the events first occurred, while the second announcement was a televised address to the nation that evening.

Note that all this occurred just as the Monica Lewinsky "scandal" was at its height of media coverage, and these actions (and the speeches) were dismissed by most people as a "Wag-the-Dog" distraction. In hindsight, it's obvious that while Clinton was trying to prevent what eventually happened on 9-11-01, most of the rest of the world was convinced that revealing his sex life was far more important to the nation.

That is a crock Lee. Don't... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

That is a crock Lee. Don't blame the fact that Clinton found more time for blowjobs than he did to meet with some of his own cabinet members on America or Republicans. He did it. He denied it and tried to destroy Monica as a crazed stalker until the DNA came in, but he did admit it finally. That is why character is important and why you don't want sexual predators in the White House.

He was distracted and he engaged in such outrageous behavior that he caused a distraction for the rest of the country. Do you really think it is reasonable to expect the nation not to be mesmerized by a commander in chief that would perform sexual acts in the Oval Office with an intern and a cigar?

As for the statements he made in 1998, Republicans were paying attention and believed him when he said that Saddam had WMD and made regime change official US policy.

What difference does it make whether or not Clinton or Burglar or whoever passed on some secret plan to get bin Laden in 2000? Read my column, or Bob's excellent post -- Clinton had 7 years, 10 months and 25 days to do something about al Quaeda. The fact that he wanted to hand that problem off on the new administration after preventing them from even being able to transition is not something I would be trumpeting as a positive.

"Bin Laden preparing to hi... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

"Bin Laden preparing to hijack U.S. aircraft and other attacks."

4 DEC 1998 pdb

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/pdb120498.html

He freaking knew.

Bill Clinton was President ... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

Bill Clinton was President for another 7 years, 10 months, 25 days after this attack.


All the people responsible for the first World Trade Center bombing were caught and are rotting in jail. The no further Homeland attacks occurred for 7 years, 10 months, 25 days. Then Bush got in office and unlike Clinton who reacted to the PDB's Bush ignored them and focused his attention on missile defense and Iraq and then the World Trade Centers fell under his watch while reading My Pet Goat. An the perpetrator have not been caught, we've spent hundreds of billions, we're stuck in a quagmire with no solution, our military is destroyed and de-moralized and the terrorist threat is growing and our country looks like a military state and runs on fear mongering.

So what the heck was your point.

And here are the specific details of how much better Clinton was on terror compared to Bush.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15046240/

Press launch and go to the 4:00 mark....

Not only did Ramsey Youssef... (Below threshold)
jp:

Not only did Ramsey Youssef come to America on an Iraqi Passport.....he bombed the WTC in 1993 on the 2yr anniversary of the United States and Coalition forces liberating Kuwait from Saddam's Iraq......this along with most of the 1990's Iraq history needs to be explained to the public b/c I beleive they are by and large extremely ignorant about it.

much less that the mastermind of 9/11 is Ramsey Youssef's cousin, KSM

The focus on al Qaeda's inv... (Below threshold)
kevino:

The focus on al Qaeda's involvement in the 1993 WtC bombing is good, but let us not forget the August 7, 1998 bombings of the US embassies in East Africa. 257 people were killed and more than 4,000 were injured.

An attack against an embassy is an attack against that country's territory.
Those bombings killed Americans on American soil.
Al Qaeda operatives responsible for the attacks admitted that they did the crimes and that they were doing it as members of al Qaeda.

The Clinton adminstration's response was worthless and weak.

First of all, who in the wo... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

First of all, who in the world are you talking about
when you say "security voters." With all due respect that makes no sense. If you mean people who only vote based on security who are they? Apparently they must be right wing republicans. What an insult to be classified as one issue voters. So, your point really makes no sense.

What I get from all of this is the ongoing nonsense of each side blaming the other for 9/11. That also makes no sense and completely belies the facts. Clinton was at fault. Bush was at fault. The intelligence community was at fault. The pentagon was at fault. Why in the hell won't both sides (mine on the left) just admit it and shut the hell up about it. It changes nothing. The issue is what are we going to do in the future based on what we've learned form the past.

We (that includes me) sound like ridiculous schoolyard children sometime. nah, nah, nah. You did it. No I didn't you did. If our kids heard us they'd take us to the woodshed and smack some sense into us over some of these disputes.

The Clinton adminstration's... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

The Clinton adminstration's response was worthless and weak.

Posted by: kevino

And it should have been??..................Fill in the blank SPECIFICS please.

Compared to the actions taken by the Bush Administration after they took over with new confirmation from the CIA that the Cole bombing WAS the work of Al Queda. And the Bush response was???...............fill in the blank.

All the people re... (Below threshold)
All the people responsible for the first World Trade Center bombing were caught and are rotting in jail.

An out-and-out falsehood. As I stated previously, the bomb-builder Abdul Rahman Yasin fled New York for Iraq, where Saddam Hussein offered him sanctuary.

As it has been stated before, "you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

muirgeo, you do not know the facts.

muirgeo: The point is that ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

muirgeo: The point is that the day the terrorists succeeded (even though part of the bomb didn't work as designed) in the first WTC attack they started planning another attack and no one detected their plans because the Intel community and military were destroyed by the Clinton Administration. Terrorist wandered freely around the U.S. during the 90's, taking flight lessons (weird lesson on flying a plane but not landing it) that should have been, and some information shows was reported to the FBI, who immediately ignored it because the Gorlick wall prevented them from asking the CIA if they knew of these guys.
So you and Lee should just don your Burka's and suicide bombs like the good little brainwashed aholes you are.

The right's obsession with ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

The right's obsession with Clinton at this point is emblematic of their failure to unite the nation.

Instead of facing the American people with integrity, explaining what went wrong in Iraq, and explaining how they intend to make that situation better, it's blame, blame blame Bill Clinton.

There is no avoiding the fact that Republicans aren't interested in bringing AQ to justice, and that particular inconvenient truth has caught the attention of the American people. It's election time, time for the Republican'ts to try to fool the public again - so they play the "let's blame Clinton" game...

Hugh, I agree. I ... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Hugh,

I agree. I saw what Guiliani said about it and thought it to be pretty much on the mark.

The title of the story was wrong though.

muirego,

we're stuck in a quagmire with no solution, our military is destroyed and de-moralized and the terrorist threat is growing and our country looks like a military state and runs on fear mongering.

This paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. And with all seriousness, with this much a pessimistic distorted sense of reality, I wonder how you get through the day.

Quagmire, Our military destroyed, we look like a military state, fear mongering. You know, all of what you said looks exactly like fear mongering.

Lee-Oh poor Bill-n... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Lee-

Oh poor Bill-no one can blame him for anything.

Heck HE blames THE MILITARY-they wouldn't let him get Bin Laden.


If the Clinton administration thought that terrorism was serious and wanted to "help" the Bush Administration with recommendations-then why did they 'help" the smooth transistion by challenging absentee military votes for not having stamps? Why did they do petty things like removing the "W"s from the White House computer keyboards?

All fun and games for the Democrats like usual.

And you know who would have not put up with Bill going after Bin Laden?

His OWN party- D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-S.

You people are pathetic-you can "theorize" that the Bush administration actually conspired and did 9/11 but a couple of criticisms of Clinton and you've got Terry Mcauliffe whining on CNN that an ex-President shouldn't have to face those type questions.

Hugh,That makes yo... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Hugh,

That makes you the first person on the left side of the isle, that I can recall, willing to allow Clinton to accept ANY part of the blame for 9/11.

It's also one of the first comments from you that I can agree with. There's plenty of blame to go around.

How we go forward is certainly more important that how we got here. Unfortunately for all of us, we really need to understand HOW we got here to make sure that we do not keep repeating the mistakes that got us where we are. I believe that 9/11 is still such a scar on the national psyche that NO ONE is willing to accept any blame whatsoever because then they will feel the guilt of those 3,000+ deaths from 9/11. That is exacerbated by our current state of 'gotcha' politics by both major parties no matter what the subject.

Bin Laden and friends got u... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Bin Laden and friends got used to the Lather-Rinse-Repeat rhythm after 8 years of Clinton.

Lather: we attack them
Rinse: they lob a few cruise missiles at us
Repeat: we start planning the next attack

On 9/11 they expected the same thing...though I'm sure they expected a slightly stronger response. What they did NOT expect, because it had NOT happened before, was a "visit" by the U.S. military...and subsequent overthrow of the Taliban.

Bin Laden, IN HIS OWN WORDS, did not believe we would:
- put boots on the ground in sufficient numbers
- for a sufficient amount of time
- and absorb ANY significant casualities before we did a cut & run

Even now the alQueda types believe their allies the Dimocrat Party will force a cut & run if they can just hold on long enough.

There won't be much wind left in the alQueda sails if the Dimocrats don't win in November. 'Cause then they would be faced with 2 more years of Bush, with a Congress that was (more or less) behind him!

Here is the record-fact. T... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Here is the record-fact. This is what transpired during the Clinton administration's watch. This is from army.mil terrorist timeline and I edited it highly to the most relevant.

Clinton has some nerve BLAMING theMILITARY for his not capturing Bin Laden. I agree with Guiliani that the TERRORIST are to blame for 9/11 no one else.

But-Clinton handled the Somalia incident poorly and he CONTINUED to respond poorly when the US Military was ATTACKED.

I'm sorry but the US MILITARY are CITIZENS of this country too-and if Clinton is going to blame the military for something ridiculous-his supposed failure to capture Bin Laden than he should reap what he sows. It's that simple.

These are events that happend on his watch-they are plain and simple fact-not opinion.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000:
In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998:
A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.

Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998:
Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern section of the capital.


Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997:
Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997:
Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997:
A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."


Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997:
A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, New York City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996:
A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.


Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996:
HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: Athens Embassy Attack, February 15, 1996:
Unidentified assailants fired a rocket at the U.S. Embassy compound in Athens, causing minor damage to three diplomatic vehicles and some surrounding buildings. Circumstances of the attack suggested it was an operation carried out by the 17 November group.


Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995:
The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.


Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995:
HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.


Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995:
Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.


Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993:
The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993:
The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Pre-emptively for Robert et... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Pre-emptively for Robert et Lee and all the other Democratic denialists-

Here is were Clinton throws sand in the eyes of the military-

And you've got that little smirk on your face and you think you're so clever. But I had responsibility for trying to protect this country. I tried and I failed to get bin Laden. I regret it. But I did try. And I did everything I thought I responsibly could.

The entire military was against sending Special Forces in to Afghanistan and refueling by helicopter.
And no one thought we could do it otherwise, because we could not get the CIA and the FBI to certify that Al Qaida was responsible while I was president.

Transcript

The entire military.

Yes the Pentagon thought he didn't have the legitimacy and the backing of his OWN Democratic party to pull it off.

But I bet you there would have been plenty of Special Forces volunteers who knew what Bin Laden was responsible for and who would have wanted to avenge the deaths of their military brothers and sisters.

Clinton was Commander in Chief but he has no internal locus of control instead he blames -

the entire military.

That is the kind of leader the Liberals rally around.

Shoot typo-were=wh... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Shoot typo-

were=where

There has been a lot of cri... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

There has been a lot of criticism of what Clinton did or didn't do, but what about Bush? Did Bush have opportunities to capture OBL? Were there warnings of pending strikes? What did Bush do?

Below are some quotes lifted from pre 9/11 press briefings:

2/27/01

Q Ari, according to India Globe, the Taliban in Afghanistan, they have offered that they are ready to hand over Osama bin Laden to Saudi Arabia if the United States would drop its sanctions, and they have a kind of deal that they want to make with the United States. Do you have any comments?

MR. FLEISCHER: Let me take that and get back to you on that.


6/27/01
Q And just to follow that, the Indian government have arrested a number of terrorists in connection with Osama bin Laden and his activities, also in Saudi Arabia now. Osama Bin Laden has called on India, that he will destroy all the U.S. installations and all the U.S. interests in India. So what is the U.S. government doing? Has the President spoken with the Prime Minister of India or anybody there?

MR. FLEISCHER: The President is always concerned about extremism and terrorism and that is particularly the case with Osama Bin Laden. And the United States, working with our allies around the world, will remain vigilant in making certain that all steps are taken to prevent terrorist acts from taking place.
7/2/01
Q The murderous Osama bin Laden has threatened Israel and the United States in the next two weeks to, in his words, hit them where it hurts the most. Since President Jefferson sent the U.S. Navy to attack the Barbary pirates and President Wilson sent the U.S. Army under General Pershing into Mexico in pursuit of a mass murderer of Americans, named Pancho Villa, the President realizes that these are two legitimate presidential precedents for his taking military action, doesn't he, Ari? Or does he think that Jefferson and Wilson were wrong? (Laughter.)

MR. FLEISCHER: The President will take action that he deems appropriate in national security interests.

Can you say "Silver platter"?

Barney said:The... (Below threshold)
Doug L.:

Barney said:

There has been a lot of criticism of what Clinton did or didn't do, but what about Bush? Did Bush have opportunities to capture OBL? Were there warnings of pending strikes? What did Bush do?

Two points here:

1. At the time of the attacks (9/11/01), Bush had been President about 8 months. Clinton had been President for the previous 8 years. It's entirely fair to ask what Clinton did (or, more accurately, didn't do) to address the terrorist threat. In addition, no one is saying that the Bush Administration was blameless; quite the contrary.

2. Your whole post is so typical of Leftists' responses--shine a light on your boy Bill and you guys go: "Don't shine that light over here! Look over there! Bush is worse!!"

You'd have a helluva lot more credence if you'd just admit that mistakes were made by both administrations.

"Silver platter." Yeah, right. This kind of mis-direction would be laughable if the real danger from Islamofascists weren't so serious.

BarneyG2000: "Can you sa... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

BarneyG2000: "Can you say "Silver platter"?"


YEs I can...and I can even RECOGNIZE one when I see it! Sadly, for you, that was NOT one. A "reporter" quoting the India Globe, quoting an unnamed Taliban resource saying they want to make a deal is ludicrous!

Justrand: No, Barn... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

Justrand:

No, Barney's right. The Taliban were all set to hand over Osama bin Laden, despite the fact that he and al-Qaeda were key allies in their struggle against the Northern Alliance. Indeed, the fact that Osama helped off Mahmoud Masoud (aka the Lion of the Panjshir Valley), the most effective of the Northern Alliance commanders, is irrelevant.

But, hey, Dubya wanted an oil pipeline for Unocal to go through.

So, instead of negotiating with the Taliban, he toppled the government---which is why that brand, spanking new pipeline's running through there, and why oil prices have dropped.

Of course, after the brutal Afghan winter, when millions of Afghans died (making them nearly extinct, just as Noam Chomsky predicted), it's hardly surprising.

What, why are you looking at me like that?

The truth hurts! Bush was ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

The truth hurts! Bush was warned of pending strikes and he did nothing.

Also:
The CIA'S top counterterrorism officials felt they could have killed Osama Bin Laden in the months before 9/11, but got the "brushoff" when they went to the Bush White House seeking the money and authorization.

CIA Director George Tenet and his counterterrorism head Cofer Black sought an urgent meeting with then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice on July 10, 2001, writes Bob Woodward in his new book "State of Denial."

They went over top-secret intelligence pointing to an impending attack and "sounded the loudest warning" to the White House of a likely attack on the U.S. by Bin Laden.

Woodward writes that Rice was polite, but, "They felt the brushoff."

Tenet and Black were both frustrated.

Hugh,I didn't make... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Hugh,

I didn't make up the term "security voters" but I guess it has different definitions. What I had in mind were the voters who think the security issue is number one because if we don't keep Islamic extremists from killing us the rest won't matter. There are many of these voters that are now bloggers strongly supporting Bush's efforts in the War on Terror and in Iraq. There are quite a few libertarian and even Democrat bloggers that voted for Clinton, but after 9/11 saw that school uniforms just didn't matter when fellow Americans were jumping out of buildings to keep from being incinerated. I was referring to those voters who ordinarily would vote Democrat, or would just as likely vote Dem as GOP, but since 9/11 cannot vote for Democrats because they don't believe Democrats are interested in addressing security concerns, but rather are interested in destroying Bush and winning elections. If you don't think those voters exist then you are not paying attention.

So let's recap.On ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

So let's recap.

On 7/2/01
The murderous Osama bin Laden has threatened Israel and the United States in the next two weeks to, in his words, hit them where it hurts the most.

On 7/10/01
They went over top-secret intelligence pointing to an impending attack and "sounded the loudest warning" to the White House of a likely attack on the U.S. by Bin Laden.

Now, what did Bush do?

Rory: Don't ever post fact... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Rory: Don't ever post facts where Burka wearing Lee and company can read them. Their heads are so full of BS that facts can't penetrate.

They live on facts (aka fantasy facts) as posted by one bullet Barney Fife G2000

Bush didn't stop all air tr... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Bush didn't stop all air traffic prior to 9/11 and he didn't arrest all the 9/11 hijackers prior to 9/11. Those are two things that could have prevented the attack -- at least by those specific individuals on that specific day. There still might have been the same attack on 9/12 or 10/11 or some other time. I don't think he could have done either, really, not without more specific intel. By the time Bush came in, it was too late. The plot had already been planned. Unless we got some really specific details, it would have been hard to prevent, regardless of who was in office.

I think Bush realizes that and it is part of why he has taken the tactic of taking the fight to the terrorists.

I just wonder what would have happened if Bush had had enough intel to act and had tried to do something to stop it. If Dems oppose efforts to wiretap and profile and use aggressive investigative techniques now, after 9/11, how likely is it they would ahve commended Bush for using them prior to 9/11.

I have often asked friends discussing this what we could have done even if we had more specific information. I wonder how many warnings the government picks up of proposed hijacking and bombings a year. Even with a warning of a hijacking on 9/11, I wonder how many other similar warnings they get. Do you ground air traffic or alert the public of every threat? If you do that, at some point it becomes like our fire alarm was in the freshman dorm in college. The alarm went of several times a day. Most people ignored it. After you walk up and down five flights of stairs several times a week, or sometimes a day, you tend to lose the sense of urgency.

BarneyG2000: "On ... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

BarneyG2000:
"On 7/10/01
They went over top-secret intelligence pointing to an impending attack and "sounded the loudest warning" to the White House of a likely attack on the U.S. by Bin Laden.

Now, what did Bush do?"

************
7/11/01...on the basis of the warning, and realizing that if attack is to come it will involve men between 18-35 of Middle Eastern decent, Bush orders PROFILING of all airline passengers along those lines. He also orders wiretaps be done on alQueda contacts.

7/12/01 - 9/1/01 though a combination of anecdotal incidents and a variety of rumors indicate some type of extra scrutiny of Middle Eastern men is taking place, the program is nevertheless successful in identifying several men on interest in the U.S. Though the "wall" between the FBI and CIA remains in effect...some agents are willing to bend the rules.

9/2/01 - the front page of the New York Times exposes the profiling and wiretapping. the Bush administration initially denies the allegation

9/3/01 - the ACLU files a Freedom of Information lawsuit demanding details

9/4/01 - a high ranking FBI official formally charges several agents with bending the FBI-CIA "wall" rule...throwing a chill over all agents willing to bend those rules

9/5/01 - 9/9/01 allegaations fly in all directions, and Democrats in Congress demand hearings...threatening impeachment proceedings

9/10/01 - the Bush administration suspends the profiling program, re-emphasizes the "wall", and orders a temporary halt to wiretapping of overseas calls associated with alQueda suspects

9/11/01, 5:00 a.m. Eastern Time...a nationwide communique is sent to all airport personnel ordering them to STOP any and all profiliing of Middle Eastern men...and to apply normal procedures on a random basis equally to all fliers

9/11/01, 5:43...Mohammed Atta breezes through airport security, along with 18 other Middle Eastern men between the ages of 18-35, at a variety of airports.....

Scrapiron-Ya I got... (Below threshold)
Rory:

Scrapiron-

Ya I gotta ease up on Lee yesterday he confessed to hating himself-he said he hated whiners...

Justrand, That post... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Justrand,
That post is a good summary.

BarnyG2000 it was WJ... (Below threshold)
Robert Wallis:

BarnyG2000
it was WJC who started finger pointing last Sun not Bush, the comment are showing Clinton was wrong to do so. Clinton did what he thought was the right thing when he was pres. yes he did make mistakes. Bush has done what he thought is right. Clinton is more occupied with he reputation than the welfare of the US. Bush has not blamed Clinton, Clinton has blamed Bush

LoveAmerica Immigrant...mor... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

LoveAmerica Immigrant...more of a "what if...?" than a summary, but thanks!! :)

though I'm convinced that is pretty close to how it would have played out

Most interesting. Accordin... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Most interesting. According to some of the most accurate posters here, and we all know who "they" are, all of those people in positions of responsibility during the Clinton administration would not let Willy attack Bin Ladin suddenly after the Bush administration takes office, are constantly warning Bush to get Bin Ladin. Strange as it may seem to logical thinkers, I am sure our local fops find this perfectly reasonable. Here is a fact that excapes you who I call idiots. There were two attacks on the World Trade Center. They happened during two different men were President. The first Presidents actions resulted in more attacks on U.S. interests, the second mans actions has resulted in the deaths of thousands of terrorists and no futher attacks on the U.S.

I noticed that it seems to ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

I noticed that it seems to hit a nerve on the left when Clinton is criticized. I wonder why these people are going to the floor to defend a known liar as Clinton, who didn't care about anyone else except himself.

Justrand,
I know your posts is a "what if" summary, but it is far closer to the truth than what the liberals claim. They kept recycling the lies even though the se lies have been debunked. Just amazing. The Dem was dishonest to use the NIE as a basis for their "cut-and-run" Iraq policy. And these liberals just pretend that nothing happen. They wouldn't even blink when they repeated old lies!

Justrand,So, Tenet g... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Justrand,
So, Tenet goes to the WH and:
"They went over top-secret intelligence pointing to an impending attack and "sounded the loudest warning" to the White House of a likely attack on the U.S. by Bin Laden."

What did Bush do? He caves under pressure and "re-emphasizes the "wall", and orders a temporary halt to wiretapping of overseas calls associated with alQueda suspects"

Did he not know about FISA? Did he not know that the "wall" prevented sharing of intelligence between domestic and foreign branches of the FBI, but not between the CIA and FBI? Did OBL succeed because Bush did not know the law?

Did he not know about FISA?... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Did he not know about FISA? Did he not know that the "wall" prevented sharing of intelligence between domestic and foreign branches of the FBI, but not between the CIA and FBI? Did OBL succeed because Bush did not know the law?
--------------------------------------------------
What did Clinton do since 1993 after the WTC bombing and all the following attacks?

What did Clinton do when OBL was offered to him?

Did he not know about FISA?... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Did he not know about FISA? Did he not know that the "wall" prevented sharing of intelligence between domestic and foreign branches of the FBI, but not between the CIA and FBI?
-------------------------------------------------
I admit ignorance here. Can someone clarify for me that the FBI have foreign branches and actually do the investigation in a foreign country?

So this is such a good law, why did Congress abolish it after 9/11 and even the 9/11 commission agreed with that?

Blustery Bill, I agree, I t... (Below threshold)
Soupy2c2:

Blustery Bill, I agree, I think that was a show. But I don't think it was to defend his legacy or to boost dems in 2006...
I think it was about Richard Clark and Hillary and 2008.
The path to 9-11 was all about butt kissing Clark and so was Clinton...
Why?

Lorie:Thanks for c... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Lorie:

Thanks for clearing up what you meant by your version of "security voter." I appreciate it. That helps put your piece in a better context for me. My perspective is that both sides see security as the major issue facing us today. There, of course, is a fundamental difference in approach to dealing with it.

Those who blog on these sites and spout off that democrats are in league with terrorists (and similar accusations) are silly and ignorant. It's too bad the dialogue gets as polarized as it does (I admit guilt myself). The truth I see is that 9/11 happened for lots of reasons involving many years and several administrations - including st. Bill whom I of course love

Justrand,Where did... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Justrand,

Where did you get that "profiling" information? Everything that I have found on the topic suggests the opposite. Bush was against profiling:

LOS ANGELES, Sep. 11 -- Ironically, in an attempt to appeal to the growing number of Arab-American and Muslim voters, exactly eleven months ago George W. Bush called for weakening airport security procedures aimed at deterring hijackers.

On February 27, 2001, President Bush told a joint session of Congress that racial profiling "is wrong and we will end it in America." With the introduction of the bipartisan End Racial Profiling Act

On Fox News Sunday, correspondent Brit Hume, noting that all 19 of the suspected hijackers were Arab or Muslim, asked Attorney General John Ashcroft if "is it not the case that necessarily innocent people may have to be detained because of certain characteristics about them, not detained in any permanent sense, but given a special measure of scrutiny just in the interest of public safety?"
"But," he said, "we are not at the place of saying that people are suspects based solely on their race or ethnic origin."
Asked Monday about reports that in the course of its investigation the FBI has been questioning individuals "based solely on their ethnic background," FBI Director Robert Mueller said that wasn't true.

Those who blog on these sit... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Those who blog on these sites and spout off that democrats are in league with terrorists (and similar accusations) are silly and ignorant. It's too bad the dialogue gets as polarized as it does (I admit guilt myself). The truth I see is that 9/11 happened for lots of reasons involving many years and several administrations - including st. Bill whom I of course love
--------------------------------------------------
Hugh,
The real point is what the dems have done since 9/11 besides opposing the Patriot acts, terrorist surveillance program, NSA, terrorist-detainment bill (just passed), and cut-and-run on Iraq?

BTW, why did the dems dishonestly use the leaked NIE as a basis for their cut-and-run Iraq policy when the NIE said the opposite?

BarneyG2000, How do... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

BarneyG2000,
How do I know the info you posted is the truth. We just have a recent example of the lies posted by major newspapers like NYT, LAT, BBC, CBS etc...

LoveAmerica:... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

LoveAmerica:


You illustrate my point well. You've tossed out a bunch ofyour own opinions (actually biases) disguised as facts (all of which are incorrect) and then you demand a response. There's no point in debating you. If you feel the need to "gotcha" then so be it.

HughYou illustrate m... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Hugh
You illustrate my point well. You've tossed out a bunch ofyour own opinions (actually biases) disguised as facts (all of which are incorrect) and then you demand a response. There's no point in debating you. If you feel the need to "gotcha" then so be it.
--------------------------------------------------
Those are the real facts, Hugh. Sorry that you cannot distinguish between facts and opinions. So using the same standard, all you have done so far is to post your opinions without facts. That 's all I am saying.

Again, the real question is what have the dems done since 9/11? I can cut them slacks before 9/11. But have the dems changed after 9/11? That 's the question. Please give your answer with facts to back up as you wish. Please don't post opinions now.

Lorie trumpeted: "Clinto... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Lorie trumpeted: "Clinton had 7 years, 10 months and 25 days to do something about al Quaeda. The fact that he wanted to hand that problem off on the new administration after preventing them from even being able to transition is not something I would be trumpeting as a positive."

The adminstration knew when they walked in the door that they would wait for an excuse to invade Iraq (link), and instead of acting on the threat they waited for an excuse.

That excuse was handed to them when the WTC was attacked. Some suggest the adminstration was so interested in finding that excuse to invade that they didn't do all they could to prevent the attack on the twin towers.

You, and other neocons like you, were more interested in what Bill had in his pants than what Osama bin Laden had on his mind. Americans perished, and the Republican'ts had their excuse to invade Iraq.

I have often asked friends ... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

I have often asked friends discussing this what we could have done even if we had more specific information.

Posted by: Lorie Byrd

This is the question none of YOU want to answer. If Clinton was supposed to have done more with what he knew why are you giving Bush a pass as if he didn't have the same information...and more. And again Clinton tried...he tried and failed....Bush DID NOT TRY!!! He ignored.

Actually a "comment" is a ... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Actually a "comment" is a remark expressing an opionio or reaction. That's what the post asks for - comment(s). Your skewed statemnt of what you call "facts" are you opinions about some "facts". That's why it's useless to engage in debate with you.

More Voters Blame Bush For ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

More Voters Blame Bush For Failure to Catch Bin Laden

Thursday, September 28, 2006

By Dana Blanton
Fox News

When you lose Fox, you know the game is over!

murigeo,This is the ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

murigeo,
This is the question none of YOU want to answer. If Clinton was supposed to have done more with what he knew why are you giving Bush a pass as if he didn't have the same information...and more. And again Clinton tried...he tried and failed....Bush DID NOT TRY!!! He ignored.
---------------------------------------------------
Let me explain to you slowly again:
The 1st WTC occurred in 1993. Then we had another series of attacks upto the Cole attack in about 1999(?). What have Clinton done all those years? 7+ years. I remembered major speeches by Clinton on Saddam Hussein, his WMD and threat to the region and the world. Not much if at all about AlQaeda. Bush was in office barely 8 months. Bush lost more than 1 month due to the challenge by Al Gore. In other words, the Bush adm didn't have all the people in place yet.

This is just another example of the dishonesty of Bill Clinton for your record. I wonder why you are willing to go to the mat to defend a known liar like him.

More Voters Blame Bush For ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

More Voters Blame Bush For Failure to Catch Bin Laden
------------------------------------------------
Barney,
How does this prove that your original post was the truth? Can you explain to me about foreign offices of the FBI in your post? I am honestly ignorant about foreign operations of the FBI.

LoveAmerica Immigrant... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

LoveAmerica Immigrant

Here is the memo:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/testimony/supplementarymaterial.pdf


Here is the key point:
The procedures contained herein, unless otherwise specified by the Attorney General, apply to foreign intelligence (FI) and foreign counterintelligence (FCI) investigations conducted by the FBI, including investigations related to espionage and foreign and international terrorism. The purpose of these procedures is to ensure that FI and FCI investigations are conducted lawfully, and that the Department's criminal and intelligence/counterintelligence functions are properly coordinated.

As you can read, the memo is from the justice depart regarding actions by the FBI, and goes on to clarify when FISA is required. There is never any mention of the CIA any other intelligence agency other than internal FBI actions.

Barney,As you can re... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Barney,
As you can read, the memo is from the justice depart regarding actions by the FBI, and goes on to clarify when FISA is required. There is never any mention of the CIA any other intelligence agency other than internal FBI actions.
---------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the info. I don't understand your point here. I browse through it. What is the main point of this memo?

BTW, Here is the 9-... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

BTW,
Here is the 9-11 commission report

www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Why did the Clinton administration allow the barrier to sharing intelligence info fester under their watch since 1995?

muirgeo,You and Le... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

muirgeo,

You and Lee and all your communist dem buddies don't know what Clinton did or didn't do. Clinton, like the liberal conspiracy crowd, was busy destroying our intelligence community so he could perpetrate your nazi liberal agenda. I have no sympathy for you brainwashed aholes and your like. My party will always be in the right and you will always be on the side of the terrorists. My partner and I will dance and spit upon you in our wrath, and I will slip into my pink teddy, push up bra and Manolo blahniks and pretend to be Marilyn Monroe. I will shave my mustache and frequent church bingo games while singing "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor because thats what I am, a survivor.

murigeo,This is the ... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

murigeo,
This is the question none of YOU want to answer. If Clinton was supposed to have done more with what he knew why are you giving Bush a pass as if he didn't have the same information...and more. And again Clinton tried...he tried and failed....Bush DID NOT TRY!!! He ignored.
---------------------------------------------------
Let me explain to you slowly again:

Posted by: LoveAmerica Immigrant

Again you DID NOT answer the question. What should Clinton have done and WHEN? And as for Bush you just made excuses for him doing nothing....It wasn't he was too busy. On 1/24 Clarke said put Al Queda at the top of the list and he said NO we're putting Missile defense and Iraq at the top. He DID NOT EVEN COMMENT on the PDB. Clinton took strong action on a similiar 1998 PDB.

muerigoAgain you DID... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

muerigo
Again you DID NOT answer the question. What should Clinton have done and WHEN? And as for Bush you just made excuses for him doing nothing....It wasn't he was too busy. On 1/24 Clarke said put Al Queda at the top of the list and he said NO we're putting Missile defense and Iraq at the top. He DID NOT EVEN COMMENT on the PDB. Clinton took strong action on a similiar 1998 PDB.
---------------------------------------------------
Let me explain to you slowly again:

(1) This PDB stuff on BUSH as a lie by the NYT. I have shown you the link on that already. No warning about imminent attack: this is another lie just like the NIE. So you should stop using this lie for your own sake.

(2) Clarke himself said that Clinton didn't care squat about terrorism. You can just see the proof in the 9-11 report. If he truly had AlQ on his mind all the time, he wouldn't have allowed the barrier to intelligence sharing to foster under his watch for 5 years. THis proves that this guy is a pathetic liar.

(3) The bombing on Afghanistan was a joke and you didn't even know it. We launch million dollar missles on empty tents. That made Bin Laden quake in his boots that he attacked us again in 1999 and 2000.

Clinton is a known liar. Don't go to the mat for this guy, muerigo. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really don't know about this stuff. The fact that you could quote oberman as "truth" gave it away.

Again you DID NOT answer th... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Again you DID NOT answer the question. What should Clinton have done and WHEN?
---------------------------------------------------
Clinton should have taken Bin Laden and put him away somewhere at the very least when the Sudanese offered them to him (esp after the 1st WTC attack). We posted an audio link of Clinton admitting that much!

Sound like Al Qaeda is repe... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Sound like Al Qaeda is repeating Dem 's talking points.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/29/D8KENQMO0.html
Al-Qaida No. 2 Calls Bush Failure, Liar

Do you have any speeches fr... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Do you have any speeches from these heros of the left strongly condemning the terrorists and vowing to march on to victory?

The headlines from Drude

Carter: Bush has brought U.S. 'international disgrace'...

Clinton: 'Incalculable Damage Done'...

Stone: 'I'm ashamed for my country'...

I donno but these guys are ... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

I donno but these guys are heros and they have very little to say good about this admins approach to the "WOT".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12336396/site/newsweek/

Muirgeo, How do you... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Muirgeo,
How do you know that msnbc was telling the whole truth? They have been caught lying before just like the NYT?

BTW, why didn't Carter have anything to say about Al Qaeda? Why did the left have nothing to say about the terrorists? All their passion was directed towards Bush? So the natural question is why the left seems so little passionate about the terrorists?

Here is what TOny Blair sai... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Here is what TOny Blair said. I wonder why the left wouldn't strongly blame the enemy instead of Bush and America.

I believe passionately [that] we will not win until we shake ourselves free of the wretched capitulation to the propaganda of the enemy, that somehow we are the ones responsible."

Muirego, Here is ho... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Muirego,
Here is how pathetic a liar that Clinton and Hillary were. There was no NIE on terrorism from 1995 to 9/11. So much for his attention to terrorism.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=244335998192705
According to the 9/11 Commission report: "There was no National Intelligence Estimate on terrorism between 1995 and 9/11. There was no comprehensive review of what the intelligence community knew and what it did not know and what it meant."

All their passion was direc... (Below threshold)
muirgeo:

All their passion was directed towards Bush? So the natural question is why the left seems so little passionate about the terrorists?

Posted by: LoveAmerica Immigrant

Because we WANT to get the terrorist and Bush distracted us and sent us to the Iraq qaugmire for such a cost and 2 steps backwards.


Where did you emigrate from?

Because we WANT to get the ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Because we WANT to get the terrorist
---------------------------------------
Why didn't you talk about how evil the terrorists are?

What would you do to fight the terrorists since you must have great plan to execute by now already?

Lorie:"I just wonder... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Lorie:
"I just wonder what would have happened if Bush had had enough intel to act and had tried to do something to stop it. If Dems oppose efforts to wiretap and profile and use aggressive investigative techniques now, after 9/11, how likely is it they would ahve commended Bush for using them prior to 9/11."

Exactly. The Dem leadership has opposed virtually everything the Prez has done wrt fighting terrorism, often in a childish "if-he's-for-it,we're-against-it" manner.
'Security Voters' go to the polls thinking "Hmm. Which party is more likely to take the hard steps necessary to protect us? The Dems or the Reps?" I think many voters see the Dems as being childish, petty and political on the subject of 'Security', and they don't like it.

If the Dems would support the Prez on security but continued opposing him on all the other usual issues, they could clean the Reps clock. But they won't, so they will continue to lose.

Barney, Hugh, Lee, Muirego,... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Barney, Hugh, Lee, Muirego, and the missing Mantis. All your bloviating, and no answer to the questions. What did Clinton do after the first WTC attack? He attacked the non-threatning
Saddam, who was guilty of all manner of things until Bush got elected President. Then the threat magically disappeared. The lying Senator Pat Leahy stated today that Bush failed to capture OBL because he pulled the special forces out of Afghanistan to send them to Iraq. Problem is the Iraq conflict did not start for about two years after Tora Bora. Are all of you liars, or are you just that stupid?

What did Clinton do after t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

What did Clinton do after the first WTC attack?

How about capture and conviction of bastards that were responsible for the attack!

How many 9/11 terrorists have been convicted?

OBL is living large in Pakistan sipping tea and F-ing virgins.


A vote for Hillary is a vot... (Below threshold)
Rudi:

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill. I'm tired of these dynasty-type of politics. First the Bush's are all there has been in the Presidency and now, the Clinton's. For me, even though I am heavily sided with the Bush objectives, I am at a position where I would almost vote for anyone but either of the two. That's dangerous in itself. Of course, we need to look at the issues, but we also need new blood in the Oval Office. There is more to our country than these two persons. Who will step up to the plate? Will America look to their favor in order to avoid Slick Willy becoming the First Lady or Man?

How about capture and convi... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

How about capture and conviction of bastards that were responsible for the attack!
----------------------------------------------
good point. Bin Laden was offered to Clinton on a silver platter, but he wasn't brave enough to take the guy to try this liberal law-enforcement mentality. OBL was responsible for the 1st WTC attack. I am surprised that you don't simply say that let 's put the guy to room temperature.


OBL is living large in Pakistan sipping tea and F-ing virgins.
-----------------------------------------------
OBL used to do this when he ruled Afghanistan. Now he lived like a rat in Pakistan or Iran. I wondered why OBL doesn't dare to show his face publicly anymore. Is he so scare of Bush that he cannot show off his face anymore? This Bush guy really scared OBL that he had to hide like a rat.


Well I see that old "pucker... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Well I see that old "pucker puss" (lee lee), hughie (asshole), mun-go (or is that bung-hole) has a new whiner to join them--shall we call him "Barney Goggle"?

But, hey, Dubya wanted a... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

But, hey, Dubya wanted an oil pipeline for Unocal to go through.

I can handle inane conspiracy theories, but try for a little accuracy.

Bush had no part in the Unocal deal at any point in its history. Unocal's deal was DOA back in 1998. It was a deal SOLELY in the Clinton era.

They went over top-secret intelligence pointing to an impending attack and "sounded the loudest warning" to the White House of a likely attack on the U.S. by Bin Laden.

With no specifics as to where.

When.

How.

Yeah, real actionable intel there.

What should Clinton have done and WHEN?

Authorize the attacks when the opportunity was presented. Sheuer is quite negative about Clinton's actions in that time frame.

On 1/24 Clarke said put Al Queda at the top of the list and he said NO we're putting Missile defense and Iraq at the top. He DID NOT EVEN COMMENT on the PDB. Clinton took strong action on a similiar 1998 PDB.

Strong action entailing bombing an aspirin factory.

That sure showed them.

How many 9/11 terrorists have been convicted?

Seeing as how they died in the explosions, not many. But I suppose we could charge their charred remains, if it would make you feel better.
-=Mike

They went over the top-s... (Below threshold)
914:

They went over the top-secret intelligence warning of an impending attack and"sounded the loudest warning"to the White House of an attack on the U.S. by Bin Ladin.

The loudest warning? A piece of paper is loud? If it even existed in the first place why did not Willy go on national TV AND WARN ALL OF US??

Or why did He not take action Himself instead of passing the buck? Ohh I forgot... He was doing important stuff like banging interns and vacationing in Africa..
What a pathetic loser.




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