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Signs of progress on Capitol Hill

Folks are all abuzz about the resignation of Representative Mark Foley (R-FL) after it was revealed he was using the internet to pursue an underage male page. Foley, prior to this, was best known as chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus.

While many are making this to be a huge scandal and a horrid disgrace, I think it's actually a sign of things getting better in Congress.

Back in 1983, two Congressmen -- Gerry Studds (D-MA) and Dan Crane (R-IL) were caught having illicit relations with the underage Congressional pages. Crane's paramour was female, and he was defeated in re-election. The object of Studds' affection was male, and Studds defiantly refused to apologize -- in fact, he got the former page (the encounters took place in 1973, and the "youth" was now a legal adult) to join him in a press conference. Both men were censured, but Studds kept getting re-elected and served until he retired in 1996. (Although the joke "how do you know if Gerry Studds has borrowed your book? He keeps bending the pages over!" still garners a laugh around New England.)

20-odd years ago, members of Congress boinking underage pages was worth a censure, and barely worth running them out of office over. Nowadays, just talking dirty to them is enough to get you ridden out of town on a rail.

Well done, Congress.


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Comments (56)

Q: Why don't GOP Congressme... (Below threshold)
username:

Q: Why don't GOP Congressmen use bookmarks?

A: They'd rather bend over the pages!

I guess the same could be s... (Below threshold)
Luke:

I guess the same could be said of some Democrat congressmen too.

Wouldn't have the same ring though if it's a Democrat; they're expected to be unashamed of whatever they may be accused.

Curious why the left does n... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Curious why the left does not seem to punish their slime at the ballot box. Foley resigned quickly, Crane lost badly at the next election; Studds, Kennedy, Byrd, et al are repeatedly returned to office, often by large margins.

Foley heading chairman of t... (Below threshold)
Mik:

Foley heading chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus is reminiscent of the praise and adoration given by NOW to Bill Clinton for his "unwavering support of women's rights." To Clinton's credit, though, he at least waited until they were 19.

I suppose this most resembles the recent rash of female high school teachers becoming sexually involved with teenage boys who are sexually mature though still underage. Whatever the similarities, it is still shameful.

Something doesn't seem righ... (Below threshold)

Something doesn't seem right about this. According to a Fox News Report, Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., chairman of the Page Board that oversees the congressional work-study program, investigated Cong. Foley. Howerever, Foley, "falsely assured him he was only mentoring the boy." And all this was coming to light in late 2005...according to the same Fox News Report.

What type of investigation was that?!? Didn't Representative Shimkus have access to the reportedly sexually explicit emails from the page in question? This is basic investigative stuff...review the actual evidence first before even going to the source of the possible infraction.

Did Rep. Shimkus take Mr. Foley's assurance out of political expediency?

Seeing that the page's pare... (Below threshold)
engineer:

Seeing that the page's parent didn't want to persue the matter, it is very likely that Rep. Shimkus never got to see the emails.

It's tough to investigate something, when the victim says not to worry about it, and the perp doesn't volunteer any information.

Seeing that the page's p... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Seeing that the page's parent didn't want to persue the matter, it is very likely that Rep. Shimkus never got to see the emails.

The whole reason for the investigation in the first place, and the reason Shimkus contacted the parents and Hastert in the first place, is because he saw the emails. So, nope.

when the victim says not... (Below threshold)
Brian:

when the victim says not to worry about it

I suppose that this could be interpreted as "don't worry about it":

the boy e-mailed a colleague in Alexander's office about Foley's e-mails, saying, "This freaked me out." On the request for a photo, the boy repeated the word "sick" 13 times.

Or maybe not.

Seems you have to go back t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Seems you have to go back through 23 years of sex offenders to find a Democrat to include in your analysis. Perhaps you can use a more recent subject in this list.

It really is pointless argu... (Below threshold)

It really is pointless arguing with you donkeys, you simply *refuse* to acknowledge your deadbats, drunkards, klan-members and commies in your party.

Unless and until you acknowledge Robert Byrds racist past...well, his current racism as well AND at least acknowledge Teddy Kennedy was responsible for a woman's death, I will laugh at everything you try to throw out there. Can't take you donkey seriously anymore.

You guys keep your scumbags, but hell, the GOP at least tosses theirs out when this stuff comes up.

No, Brian, time had very li... (Below threshold)

No, Brian, time had very little to do with it. I picked a Congressman from the state next door who had a relationship with a same-sex underage page. It was the first parallel that sprang to mind.

Oh, and Brian, if you had the slightest clue or interest in any sex scandals besides the ones that fit your political bias, you'd have seen that Studds' indiscretion took place in 1973, but didn't come out until 1983 -- so it was 33 years ago, not 23. 1983 was merely the date it came to light.

That list you cited is a serious crock of shit. I've looked at it before. About half of it is filled with "arrested for" or "charged with" or "accused," and well over half the names on it are utter nobodies. Oh, and Strom Thurmond was a Democrat when he did the deeds that made that list.

Try harder next time, pinhead.

No, make that try. Put a little effort into it, will ya? We have much higher standards for trolls around here. Your so-called "efforts" barely rise to the level of "annoying asshole."

J.

J.

Unless and until you ack... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Unless and until you acknowledge Robert Byrds racist past

Like you're acknowledging George Allen's?

the GOP at least tosses theirs out when this stuff comes up.

Like DeLay, Ney, and Cunningham? Or these people? They at least resigned quickly to avoid bringing any embarrassment to their party. Oh wait... they just waited until they were indicted or convicted.

You just keep laughing about Republican pedophiles.

Strom Thurmond? LOL! Now yo... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Strom Thurmond? LOL! Now you're going back 70 years! And of course, "arrested for" or "charged with" or "accused" of child molestation deserves to be ignored. But then, Foley hasn't been arrested or charged (yet), but only "accused". So why not just ignore him too?

well over half the names on it are utter nobodies

That means the other half are...?

In our hallowed halls of Co... (Below threshold)
engineer:

In our hallowed halls of Congress, we have very few men or women of integrity on either side of the aisle. Nobody wants to take responsiblity for their actions. Foley resigning is good. It should have happened 11 months ago. Delay resigned over allegations of improper conduct (debatable whether they were or not). Good. Our Congressman shouldn't even have the appearance of improper dealings. Our Congressmen should be held to a higher standard then we are. I could mention several more Republicans (Nye) and Democrats (Jefferson, P. Kennedy) without even doing any research who lack the integrity to admit what they have done and resign. They should be setting an example for those who elect them.

Or are the men and women we're electing (and re-electing) a reflection on what kind of people we are?

Hear hear, engineer.... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Hear hear, engineer.

Actually the democratic pag... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Actually the democratic page abuser (Studd's--Ha ha, didn't live up to his name) was protected and re-elected by the democratic party until 1995 when the republican took over and removed him from his 'chairmansip' of a committee by eleminating the useless money wasting committee designed by democrats to reward a sex offender. (take a breath) He finally retired in 1996. So in fact the democrats are stupid to day a word since Foley immediately resigned. This is another 'play the word' game the american people will figure out and the dim's will lose again.

Now the democrats are running an 'Islamofascist' on the democratic ticket. The Islamofascist's think its' fine and practice the rape of any sex over 5 since the founder of their sick religion of murder did it.

Foley was a fool and should by hanged for his actions this may not be a one way street. His target also admitted to using a fake ID to cruise gay bars.
The democrats always excuse the slimey creature that occupied the white house during the nineties because his target was 19. Now we have child rape running rampart across the country (especially in the shool systems) due to the Liberal Laws and Liberal Judges (sic). SDS is spreading like a wildfire in Ca. because of Slicks excuse that oral sex was not sex. You may be sitting around thinking everything is fine. A little checking with an honest healty department will give you a clue to the exact extent of what Slick's action's and again "democratic party protection" has done to the teens in the country. Living in a rural area and working with health care professionals make it a little easier for me to keep up to date. Dig a little. You'll find that when questioned about why they took such risk with Oral Sex they always respond, 'the president said it was ok and it wasn't sex'. It's happened even on loaded school buses with a cheering section.

Like you're acknowledgin... (Below threshold)

Like you're acknowledging George Allen's?

This is what I'm talking about...was George Allen in the KKK? Huh, let's see, Macaca vs a high-level Klan member...yeah, that's your moral equivalency at work from the left.

Sorry for the typing mistak... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Sorry for the typing mistakes in the previous post. Was out all night pulling drunks from car crashes. Usual Friday night action. Volunteers don't have a shift.

Unless and until you ack... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Unless and until you acknowledge Robert Byrds racist past...well, his current racism as well AND at least acknowledge Teddy Kennedy was responsible for a woman's death, I will laugh at everything you try to throw out there.

Well, I'm not a Democrat, but I'm pretty liberal and I have no problem saying that Robert Byrd was and probably still is a racist, and Ted Kennedy was responsible for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne (however I can't vote those two out of office). But then I also think that about 98% of politicians are crooks and/or scumbags, or at least they will be once they reach a high enough level of office.

And I will say this, in the upcoming election I will be voting against my current representative, Democrat Danny K. Davis, in light of his recent trip to Sri Lanka funded by the terrorist Tamil Tigers. He'll be re-elected anyway, but he won't get my vote.

Can I now criticize Republicans too?

Hi folks.Anyone want to con... (Below threshold)
Xennady:

Hi folks.Anyone want to contrast the way Democrats covered up for Bill Clinton-likely a rapist,at least guilty of other sexually related crimes of lesser magnitude-and the way Foley got not a kind word from the GOP on his resignation? All because of creepy emails? If a Democratic congressman did this why do you assume you would even ever find out? Delay ain't guilty of nothing-just being an effective Republican.Cunningham is in jail and Ney just pled guilty to something.Both are out of congress.William Jefferson-man with the cold cash-and Jay Mollohan are STILL in congress.Corrupt Republicans get tossed-corrupt Democrats not a problem-its all a GOP plot! I repeat-since Democrats can't even get these folks out of congress despite abundant evedence of guilt, why would anyone think a Democrat guilty of merely sending creepy emails would even be exposed,let alone driven out of congress?

Brian, you're being even du... (Below threshold)

Brian, you're being even dumber than I thought. Strom Thurmond is featured prominently on that list that you think so highly of, you've cited it TWICE.

I can understand you not fully reading my posting -- it's probably too clear and simple for you to grasp -- but YOUR OWN LIST? Can't you at least READ what you're QUOTING?

You give dumbshit trolls a bad name, brian.

J.

Yeah, it's real progress wh... (Below threshold)
Semanticleo:

Yeah, it's real progress when the Majority Leader and Whip wait for it to hit the news before they act.

What in Christ are you smoking, Tea?

Shame on you Jay Tea. This... (Below threshold)
Kapow:

Shame on you Jay Tea. This isn't some naughty little love affair. He's a peodophile Jay - what part of that don't you understand? To add insult to injury, now it seems that Boehner and Shimkus tried to cover it up. This is disgraceful, they all should be condemend, and no, there is nothing positive to spin here I'm afraid. I thought you were and intelligent and independent conservative voice, now I see you for the GOP shill that you are.

The democratic talking head... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

The democratic talking head are again proving they shouldn't be in charge of anything higher than the local dog pound.

They are now trying to convince people that a Republican Senator using the internet to talk dirty to a( evidently willing) teen ager is more horrible than Pearl Harbor and 9-11 rolled into one. While a democrat that actually had oral sex with an employee in the white house and was impeached for lying about it was only an unfortunate incident. Talk about spewing coffee out your nose. Don't ever drink or eat while reading or listening to the comical democrats.

I don't defend the Senator in any way, I think they all should be in jail, in the cell next to Slick Willie.

This is what happens when there is no stupidity test for politicians and sexual deiviates of all types are accepted as normal, which they are not. Someone should be looking at the public. In recent months there has been a dozen or more incidents of 'teachers' raping students. Betting that 99 44/100 % of the teachers protected by the democratic anti-american NEA are democrats would be a sure winner.

None of it will matter if the cut and run democrats are returned to power. We will all be too busy fighting the terrorists in the streets of every city in America. They're here (and thousands more will just walk in when all the laws that protect us are repealed), just waiting for a favorable regime so they can attack. Again, want to bet it won't happen?

Brian, you're being even... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Brian, you're being even dumber than I thought. Strom Thurmond is featured prominently on that list that you think so highly of, you've cited it TWICE.

Here's #3. You first dismissed a similar list because it had no links to substantiate the claims. Oops, the list I pointed to does. OK, next theory... now you've spotted one Republican who used to be a Democrat on the list. I'll grant you that... Thurmond (featured "prominently"???) was a scumbag too. Let's see, that leaves only 61 Republicans left. If we can disqualify them too, then everyone's happy! Huzzah!

I don't claim moral superiority for the Dems. Like others have said, 98% of all politicians are scumbags in one way or another. But the hypocrisy is proclaiming "progress" demonstrated by the leaders of the Republican party intentionally ignoring this issue, actively concealing it from the Democrats on the page committee, sitting by silent while Foley denied it, then acting only when the nauseating sickness of Foley's IMs are splayed across the airwaves. That's real progress.

You give dumbshit trolls a bad name, brian.

And the personal attacks continue...

This is what I'm talking... (Below threshold)
Brian:

This is what I'm talking about...was George Allen in the KKK?

This is what I'm talking about. What, you don't recognize racism unless the offender has a membership card?

Huh, let's see, Macaca vs a high-level Klan member

Yep, that's it. Just "macaca". Nothing more than that. Nosirree. Uh...

Oh, brian, were you the ass... (Below threshold)

Oh, brian, were you the asshat who cut and pasted the entire list the last time, without links, and proclaimed that anyone who deleted it was endorsing pedophilia? Thanks; you gave me a good posting then.

I don't know where you get the impression that I downplay or dismiss or forgive Foley his transgression; the guy is obviously a scumbag, and I'd be thrilled if he spent some time behind bars.

But it says far, far more about you that you keep bringing up that list. It seems you are obsessed with two consuming hatreds: Republicans and pedophiles. And if you can combine those two, conflate the two in people's minds, all the better for you and your twisted fantasies.

Perversity knows no political affinity. If someone wanted to, they could probably find a similar list of Democrats. For example, former Department of Homeland Security deputy press secretary Brian J. Doyle, caught in a police sting last April, was a registered Democrat. But that would just be playing your sick little game, trying to say that political orientation ties into pedophilia.

Find a new meme, brian, or find a new place to comment. That's a suggestion.

The next time I have to say it, brian, it won't be a suggestion.

J.

They are now trying to c... (Below threshold)
Brian:

They are now trying to convince people that a Republican Senator using the internet to talk dirty to a( evidently willing) teen ager is more horrible... While a democrat that actually had oral sex with an employee in the white house

I'm not aware that anyone needs "convincing" that sexual harrassment of a child is more horrible than consensual sex with an adult (no matter how inappropriate you believe it is). Do you?

talk dirty to a( evidently willing) teen ager

Nice. Blame the victim, even when he's a child. I suppose you also support "actual oral sex" with a child, should they be "evidently willing". Sick.

Let's take another look at what this "evidently willing" teenager had to say, when he reported it to another Republican congressman, only to have his cry for help ignored:

the boy e-mailed a colleague in Alexander's office about Foley's e-mails, saying, "This freaked me out." On the request for a photo, the boy repeated the word "sick" 13 times.

I think this is a sad situa... (Below threshold)
Atomic Joe:

I think this is a sad situation.

Oh, brian, were you the ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Oh, brian, were you the asshat who cut and pasted the entire list the last time

Sorry to disappoint you, but no. I just came across the post describing it by following a link earlier today.

I don't know where you get the impression that I downplay or dismiss or forgive Foley his transgression;

I don't. What I respond to is your following that condemnation with a giant BUT, and then a) ignoring the accomplices who helped him cover this up, b) finding some way to turn this wholly Republican scandal into a dig at the Democrats, and c) attempting to find some way -- whether it be the supposed speed with which Foley resigned, or the baseless prediction that he would have been voted out anyway -- to ascribe a measure of decency and "progress" to this man and those who protected him.

It seems you are obsessed with two consuming hatreds: Republicans and pedophiles.

Only in response to those who have taken the position that Democrats are worse than Republican pedophiles.

And if you can combine those two, conflate the two in people's minds, all the better for you and your twisted fantasies.

Well, now I can just sit back and let the evening news do my dirty work for me. Bwaah-ha-ha-ha!

If someone wanted to, they could probably find a similar list of Democrats.

I'm sure they could. The list was cited, not to show that Democrats have moral superiority over Republicans, but to remind those on here who claim moral superiority over Democrats that, as you say, "perversity knows no political affinity".

So talking about killing so... (Below threshold)
Xennady:

So talking about killing someone is as bad as actually killing someone.Occasionally using racial slurs is just bad as being a recruiter for the KKK-what? Going to jail for sex with minors is equivalent to writing emails about having sex with minors.Huh? Groping multiple women-and maybe raping one-is equivalent to saying out loud that there is a pubic hair on your carbonated beverage.Sure! There is only one party with a culture of corruption in this country,and it ain't mine.

Those lousy democrat crimin... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Those lousy democrat criminals should bless the Lord that they have a country to live in that doesn't put the entire breadth of them in jail. All democrats are pedophiles. All democrats are liars and terrorist sympathizers.

If Slick Willie walked down my street I'd hit him with my shoe and scream at him. We can't let these dems take office. Our party is the party of the righteous. Everyone should get a uniform and join their local conservative organizations, grab some torches and find dems like the townspeople found Frankenstein. I will dye my hair black and white like the bride of Frankenstein, pull my black silk dress out of the closet and my disco dance shoes and set out into the night after the dem terrorists. As I dance down the street I will invite local neighbors to grab my silk pantied buttocks and scream "halleluljah."

Didn't Barney Frank run a h... (Below threshold)
robert:

Didn't Barney Frank run a homosexual stud service out of his pad?

I forget the details, but someone will remember.

This is what I'm talking... (Below threshold)

This is what I'm talking about. What, you don't recognize racism unless the offender has a membership card?

This is the crux of the problem when people throw around racism like it's going out of style. George Allen, to my knowledge has never espoused:

-Ethnocentrism
-Xenophobia
-Hatred of those who believe in miscegenation

Now,I've never heard of Edward Sabornie, but just like Lt. Ehren Watada, I believe there's an agenda at play here when you go to one of Oprah's sexiest men alive, Markos Moulitsas Zuniga of all people, to dish out this so-called dirt about a sitting Senator. Kinda like John and Alice Martin "accidently" taping Newt Gingrinch and John Boehner and *gosh* just gave that tape to one Jim McDermott back in 1996. What a coincidence. Gee, Jim McDermott was sitting on the House Ethics committee on Newt's "ethics violations", which we now know were complete bunk. And John and Alice Martin? Why they were active democrats in Florida.

Robert, Frank wasn't doing ... (Below threshold)

Robert, Frank wasn't doing it. It was his live-in paramour (known in the ads as "Hot Bottom") who was using Frank's apartment as the address for his assignations. Once Hot Bottom's... um... "hobby" became known, Frank showed him the door.

I have to say that I have a grudging respect for Barney Frank. He's consistent and occasionally shows principles -- he was one of the whistleblowers on CNN's Eason Jordan, when Jordan said that the US military in Iraq was "targeting" journalists.

J.

yes, Barney Frank allowed h... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

yes, Barney Frank allowed his residence to be used for a kind of "prostitution ring". The dems so far don't seem to have any problem with Barney Frank and they kept electing him to Congress. I thnik Foley 's political career is over as a Rep if he is lucky enough not to go to jail. If he wants to be elected again he has to move and become a dem. Barney Frank is a precedent for him.

In an earlier <a href="http... (Below threshold)

In an earlier comment I questioned the circumstances around the investigation inot Rep. Foley's actions.

I emailed Rep. Shimkus' press secretary and received the following official statement (provided here in its entirety...the statement is not yet on the Congressman's web site):

From: Roberts, Craig
Sent: Fri Sep 29 22:43:36 2006
Subject: Statement by Congressman Shimkus on the Foley Resignation

(Washington, D.C.) Congressman John Shimkus, Chairman of the House Page Board, made the following statement tonight after the resignation from the House of Congressman Mark Foley.

As chairman of the bipartisan House Page Board in late 2005, I was notified by the then Clerk of the House, who manages the Page Program, that he had been told by Congressman Rodney Alexander about an email exchange between Congressman Foley and a former House Page. I took immediate action to investigate the matter.

In that email exchange, Congressman Foley asked about the former Page's well-being after Hurricane Katrina and requested a photograph. When asked about the email exchange, Congressman Foley said he expressed concern about the Page's well-being and wanted a photo to see that the former Page was alright.

Congressman Foley told the Clerk and me that he was simply acting as a mentor to this former House Page and that nothing inappropriate had occurred. Nevertheless, we ordered Congressman Foley to cease all contact with this former House Page to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. We also advised him to be especially mindful of his conduct with respect to current and former House Pages, and he assured us he would do so. I received no subsequent complaints about his behavior nor was I ever made aware of any additional emails.

It has become clear to me today, based on information I only now have learned, that Congressman Foley was not honest about his conduct.

As Chairman of the House Page Board, I am working with the Clerk to fully review this incident and determine what actions need to be taken.

The House Page Program has been an integral part of the House of Representatives for many decades. Preserving the integrity of the House Page Program is of utmost importance to me and to the House of Representatives, and we intend to uphold and protect its values and traditions.


Craig Roberts
Chief of Staff
Office of Congressman John Shimkus
513 Cannon Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-1319


Want to know why were are a... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Want to know why were are at war with the Islamofascist around the world and the democrats must never be allowed to take charge of the protection of this country. A must read for everyone: http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=244423511626964

This is well know information for anyone over the age of 45, but it's the first time i've seen it all so well put togather. Accept the truth and it will set you free.

Let us face it. If Foley w... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Let us face it. If Foley was a democrat, NAMBLA and the ACLU would be defending him. Pelosi would be accusing the young man involved with stocking and Bill Clinton would be trying boink his mother. Associate Justice Ruth Bader Ginzberg thinks the age of consent should be lowered to twelve. Democratsasd have always had a double standard. If it is a republican who is the transgressor, they rise up in moral indignity, be it a democrat and lies and denial spew forth like an high pressured fountain. I know this is gratuitous, but Brian, you are an idiot.

If it is a republican wh... (Below threshold)

If it is a republican who is the transgressor, they rise up in moral indignity, be it a democrat and lies and denial spew forth like an high pressured fountain.

Very true. I've heard it expressed this is because people and democrats at heart, hold themselves to lower standards as it is, so if this happened (and has of course) with a democrat, they barely flinch. But since republicans and conservatives hold themselves a little higher than the donkeys, we get smacked down, as we should. I just find it interesting how the left and it's placard holders at sites like Wizbang just ignore their own transgressions.

I am a registered Independe... (Below threshold)
Hayward Jubuzov:

I am a registered Independent, always have been. So what is this, the second Family Values republican to be involved in an innapropriate internet relationship with a child? You know, you'd think they would screen these people just a little better. To get my job, I had to piss in a cup, get a criminal check, a reference check, job history check, education check, and a damn physical. So how do these perverts keep getting top level positions with all the security precautions at our disposal? Folks, don't vote down party lines, or you'll get creeps like this. Better to vote for the best person whichever side they might be standing on. As always, the danger ALWAYS lies in the EXTREMES.
Bush claims Freedoms on the March.....Yeah, its doing the Goosestep right over the Bill of Rights.
Now American Citizens can be arrested in secret, dragged off to some secret camp in the Middle East, tortured and held without due process. Come on! I don't care if you are a conservative or a liberal, this should deepely disturb ANY American!

My point to all this? Vote with your head. When it comes to politics, HAVE NO LOYALTIES. No political party has a monopoly on good or bad ideas. I don't care what Oxy Rush Limbaugh says.

My point to all this? Vote ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

My point to all this? Vote with your head. When it comes to politics, HAVE NO LOYALTIES. No political party has a monopoly on good or bad ideas.
--------------------------------------------------
Does this "NO LOYALTY" carry over to defending America? Can we carry this arg over to countries: no country has a monopoly on good or bad ideas. In other words, no country is perfect, so there is no big differences between countries, ie there is no difference between America and North Korea or the Islamist fascists?

I guess if the Republican't... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I guess if the Republican'ts are going to apologize for the Bush adminstration's many disasters one shouldn't be surprised when they apologize and try to lessen the severity of an elected Republican pedophile...

No, I take that back. In a post which seems to suggest that the Republicans did something right in all of this - the didn't. They knew about this guy in 2005, but because he was up for re-election they kept their greasy mouths shut.

Anyone who stalks children is sick. Anyone who apologizes for a political party that protects such criminals is even sicker.

You're just like some shitz... (Below threshold)

You're just like some shitzu Lee, just yappin' away. If it's okay for Barney Frank, the hell with it, Mark Foley should never have left. What, you a homophobe or something? You don't like the ACLU and their support of NAMBLA? Come on man, this is the sort of thing you donkeys champion, man-boy love relationships. It's the essence of what it means to be a liberal.

I'm shocked you're not outraged that this man's private IM's and texts somehow got out. Wonder how that happened.

I know this is gratuitou... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I know this is gratuitous, but Brian, you are an idiot.

I'm pleased that your comment came at the end of such an incoherent, nonsensical rant. Makes it easier for everyone reading to dismiss you as a complete nut.

You might be on to somethin... (Below threshold)

You might be on to something with the lower standards for themselves thing, Steve. I think I can refine it a little bit. Let me know what you think.

I think that the idea is that "all people behave this way" and when Republicans (due to the christian-right influence) proclaim higher standards it's seen as a lie. So when a Republican does something they are being hypocritical and when a Democrat does the same thing, they aren't.

Consider a bit of debate between my congresswoman Heather Wilson and her challenger Patricia Madrid. The question was the old "have you ever taken illegal drugs and do you support their legalization?" Patricia got lots of happy laughs from the audience by chuckling and explaining that she *did* go to college in the 1960's after all, and implied that everyone who went to college in the 60's would answer the same. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. And then went on to say that she absolutely opposed legalization of drugs.

Heather answered the question. "No." She had never in her life taken illegal drugs.

What I think is that if you ask Republicans, "Is she lying?" and you asked Democrats "Is she lying?" that far *far* more Democrats would insist that someone claiming never to have taken illegal drugs was certainly lying and far *far* more Republicans would believe she was telling the truth.

If Republicans didn't so often make claims like "I have never taken illegal drugs" or talked as though honesty was important (fake but accurate) or wrote columns about selling skank to children (Malkin) they wouldn't be guilty of the ultimate crime of them all in the mind of Democrats... hypocracy.

So it doesn't matter that Republicans are tougher on their own then Democrats are, if a Repubican falls it's somehow more... poetic.

I just wonder what it's like to really believe that there are no honest, faithful, and self-controlled people in the world. What is that like?

Synova, that is a dangerous... (Below threshold)

Synova, that is a dangerous assumption to make, that EVERYONE must have taken illegal drugs, so therefore anyone who claims not to have is lying. I myself have never taken illegal drugs. In fact, I'm 24 and still a virgin (just haven't found the right girl I'm willing to make that leap with yet). Never much a partier, yet I do drink whenever the ship I'm working on hits port (that first drink is SO good).

What I find so sadly ironic is that the "media" goes crazy trying to find out if said repub is lying, while shrugging off the demo's comments that "everyone who went to college in the 60's did drugs". That to me is hypocrisy. No condemnation of her own actions. I would be more inclined to believe her current stance if she had OPENLY admitted instead of subtly inferred what she did, and then condemned her own actions as those of being a stupid little rich girl (who else went to college in the 60's?), she's grown up now and realizes her mistake, and thus her current stance on illegal drugs. Whereas the honest "I've never done illegal drugs" is treated with skepticism?

Don't talk to me about hypocrisy.

Oops, sorry I misread the p... (Below threshold)

Oops, sorry I misread the point of your post, Synova

Just a couple of things..<b... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

Just a couple of things..
Don't forget Foley was Chairman of the Committee
targeting on-line predators that is the Hyocrocay.

It is only speculation that Dems would cover it up..The Speaker of the House did...They tried to dump it on Reynolds and he isn't taking it...

This is no small issue for Republicans heading into election.
Most parents do not have a son or daughter in Iraq. But most parent have sons and daughters that go to chat rooms. This is their nightmare.
It is a lose-lose..
if the Speaker stays no Republican can campaign on "family values"...and if he goes(which I doubt)
it will still be difficult.

There can be different sides on our situation in Iraq. There can be different sides on how we conduct our "War on Terror"
But, seriously..this is indefensible....

But, seriously..this is ind... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

But, seriously..this is indefensible....
----------------------------------------------
Definitely indefensible and Mark Foley should be prosecuted under the law as the evidence permits.
That 's why no one has come out to defend him or lie for him or to conduct the personal attacks against the victim as the Dems have done in the past.

The Rep has failed in this regard wrt the family value, no question about it. They have to clean it up and continue with protecting the children of America since the Dem has long abandoned it with their embrace of the ACLU (a terrorist enabling and child-abuse enabling organization -NAMBLA).

Let 's be intellectually honest about this: the Dems have abandoned the defence of America and the defense of children and women in general. Otherwise, they wouldnot embrace organizations like the ACLU, NAMBLA, and folks like Clinton, Barney Frank etc...

Feel free to criticize the Rep party on this issue, but let 's be clear about it. No right-minded people would support the Dem at this point.

No right-minded people w... (Below threshold)
Brian:

No right-minded people would support the Dem at this point.

Wow, then you think only 39% of the country is "right-minded". I guess that puts you in the minority among us crazies in the other 50-plus%.

Wow, then you think only 39... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Wow, then you think only 39% of the country is "right-minded". I guess that puts you in the minority among us crazies in the other 50-plus%.
------------------------------------------------
Even at this, please try to provide the whole truth (don't follow the half truth style of the NYT). The last time I checked the self-proclaimed conservatives was about twice as many as the self-proclaimed liberals.

But that 's not the point: my point all along is that any American who cares about national security and the welfare of children should not support the Dems at this point. The Dems have abandoned any pretense of caring about national security and the welfare of women/children already.

No problem, Henry. :-)... (Below threshold)

No problem, Henry. :-)

For what it's worth I've never taken an illegal drug either. There are other things I've never done but making a list sounds too much like bragging. ;-)

I am a staunch conservative... (Below threshold)
candy:

I am a staunch conservative. That being said: Foley is a sicko and a liar. ANYONE who exploits kids in ANY way should pay dearly for it. Foley is a disgrace to his party. And to try NOW after everything to say he's an alcoholic? What an ass.

Why would politicians want ... (Below threshold)
Fishhawk:

Why would politicians want to have a program whereby underage, male and female high school students decamp to Washington D.C., to a program that is poorly run and not monitored? Aren't there enough adults who need work? I would propose that all pages be post-menopausal, so as to eliminate the temptation, which, obviously, some representatives can't resist.

It is clear that you have to be a well balanced, emotionally mature adult to withstand the constant onslaught on your integrity and morals when you enter the political circus that is Washington D.C.

Frank didn't involve himsel... (Below threshold)
David:

Frank didn't involve himself with a subordinate, nor a minor... just to set the record straight on that one.

Republicans saying that Foleys actions are ethically equivalent to this guy or that remind me of how some Muslims need to go back to the 14th century in order to justify their behavior.

I used to joke that Republicans would defend a child rapist... as long as he were Republican, looks like I need to lower the bar now.




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