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I question the timing of those questioning the timing

Stephen Spruiell at the Media Blog on National Review Online points to an OpinionJournal piece by Sarah Lueck who interviewed Brian Ross, the ABC News investigative reporter who broke the Foley email and IM story. Those who have been suggesting that Democrats must have known about this for months and held it for maximum impact on the elections have just been shut down.

WASHINGTON -- Former congressional pages themselves supplied some of the most damning emails in the scandal that forced the resignation of Rep. Mark Foley, stepping forward only after tamer messages were posted by ABC News on its Web site Thursday...

Brian Ross, chief investigative correspondent at ABC News, said a nonpartisan source provided the "tamer" emails that the network posted on its Web site "The Blotter." Within hours of that posting, "numerous" former House pages emailed ABC with additional allegations about Mr. Foley, Mr. Ross said.


Why would the pages hold on to those salacious instant messages for so long without telling anyone? Just ask someone who works with teenagers, like Betsy Newmark at Betsy's Page.
It doesn't impress me that the pages knew that Foley was a creep who was getting too close to some of the pages. I teach in a high school with kids of this age and I know that there are a whole lot of things going on that the kids know about and that the teachers are oblivious to. So just because some pages passed the word on to other pages doesn't mean that the leaders of the page program knew.

Did you ever keep a secret when you were 16?


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Comments (46)

Oh yeah?Well, I qu... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Oh yeah?

Well, I question the timing of those questioning the timing of those questioning the timing!

So - the folks on all of th... (Below threshold)
cirby:

So - the folks on all of those web sites who have been talking about this for a while now are time travelers, then?

And the Democratic leaders who also knew about the whole thing don't really count, either?

"So just because some pa... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"So just because some pages passed the word on to other pages doesn't mean that the leaders of the page program knew."

They should have known. It's their job to know.

Were other pages interviewed about Foley following the email incident? I would expect that when the tip of the iceberg surfaced, more in-depth checking was done. Sadly, Hastert was more interested in covering the iceberg up rather than determing the full extent of the problem.

"I teach in a high school with kids of this age and I know that there are a whole lot of things going on that the kids know about and that the teachers are oblivious to."

The emails put Hastert "on notice" there was a problem. He was not "oblivious" any longer. A high school principal would have been fired for ignoring the smoking gun represented by those emails.

Hastert should resign.

"And the Democratic leaders who also knew about the whole thing don't really count, either?"

Quit passsing the buck. The burden - the responsibility for finding out more and correcting the situation was Hastert's.

(Bloomberg) -- House Majority Leader John Boehner said House Speaker Dennis Hastert was responsible for how Mark Foley's sending of inappropriate e-mails was handled, creating a public split among the two top Republican leaders.

"I believe I had talked to the speaker and he told me it had been taken care of,'' Boehner, an Ohio Republican, told Cincinnati 700 WLW Radio this morning. "In my position, it's in his corner, it's his responsibility.''

The Republican House Majority Leader agrees that it's Hastert's responsibility. Not a newspaper's responsibility - not the Democrats' responsibility - Hastert's responsibility.

My apologies for the broken... (Below threshold)
Lee:

My apologies for the broken link in my previous comment.

Link to Bloomberg report cited above - Boehner Says Foley Was Hastert's `Responsibility'.

Lee,When the FBI i... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

Lee,

When the FBI investigated months ago, they found nothing to pursue. Without the IM's, there was no there, there. It certainly looked suspicious but many men of Foley's age take an interest in mentoring younger generations. There was an innocent explanation.

Hastert is a legislator- and a rather poor one at that- not an investigator. He is not Foley's boss. Foley worked for the citizens in his district. Hastert had no authority to demand Foley hand over all his private e-mails. The Ethics comittee could have but there was not enough evidence to give it to the ethics committee. Unless other pages were complaining or more salacious communications surfaced, there was nothing Hastert could do.

As to suggestions that pages were warned about Foley:

This is all bull. One former page stated this and later retracted the statement. No evidence exists to suggest anyone was aware of Foley, who championed tough laws against internet predators, was in fact a predator himself. Even Walsh, from America's Most Wanted, who worked closely with Foley, was shocked by the revelation.

I got off track with Lee.</... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

I got off track with Lee.

Brian Ross is either lieing or the most gullible reporter out there. The too-friendly e-mails were out in the media, unreported, for a year and then suddenly it is reported one month before the election. When this report hits the news, some former page now around twenty just happens to have IM's from three years ago stacked on his desk in his college dorm and quickly dispatches them to Brian Ross.

How many other people have IM's handy at a moments notice from three years ago?

Disclaimer: Foley is a complete scumbag and I do have sympathy for the victim(s). However, I don't buy Ross' explanations. The ones who collected and held on to the IM's are just as big scumbags.

If the child's parents felt... (Below threshold)
Lee:

If the child's parents felt it (the emails) was inapproriate behaviour on the part of Foley what does that tell you PF?

I'm not suggesting Hastert should have personally personally conducted the investigation. He should have seen that an investigation took place.

That's what Hastert would have done had Foley been a Democrat - -and you know it!

And speaking of Foley the Democrat - check this out. Talk about partisan biased news media! Faux News takes the cake. Identifying Foley on screen as a Democrat. What scum.

The horse is dead. Let's st... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

The horse is dead. Let's stop beating it. Foley is gone. The FBI knew about it and didn't deem it necessary to investigate it back then. Should they resign too?

Instead, let's talk about how seat belt laws were created to help insurance companies mortality rates.

On Yahoo Instant Messenger ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

On Yahoo Instant Messenger (which I've used for years) the instant messages are automatically - effortlessly -- archived forever if you have that feature switched on. Retrieving them is as simple as a few mouse clicks, and a cut and paste. I suspect MSN's messenger has a similar feature.

The tin-foil companies must love you guys...

Oh and Lee....If the chi... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Oh and Lee....If the child's parents felt it (the emails) was inapproriate behaviour on the part of Foley what does that tell you PF?

If that was my child I would have persued it MYSELF 3 years ago....but they didn't for whatever reason.

"If that was my child I ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"If that was my child I would have persued it MYSELF 3 years ago....but they didn't for whatever reason."

They trusted Hastert to do his job.

They should have known better...

Lee and gang are the nuts t... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Lee and gang are the nuts that believe anyone over the age of 12 (and they have pushed and passed laws to that effect, mostly to enable the murder of unborn babies without the parents knowing about it) have a right to make their own decisions, that is until they get into trouble and then it becomes the 'parents' and 'governments. fault. What a bunch of two faced dorks, or is it a continuation of the 'flip-flop of the Democratic party?

Just read an article by the ASSociated (with terrorists) Depress. Guess what, the revelation that the justice department asked congress to preserve all records shows the "investigation is heating up". Where do they find these brains dead people. Wouldn't that be the first thing in any investigation from shoplifting to murder? ( I hear this one every day, 'preserve the recording' showing the shoplifter in action, so our local sheriff must be a genius). Oh, I know where they get all of these brain dead people, streight out of the major colleges and universities ran and taught by 'brain dead administrators and professors' or from the DNC.

Lee:If Foley were ... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

Lee:

If Foley were a Democrat, he would still be in office and would win re-election easily next month. Look at Studds, Frank, Reynolds. Two of those three had sex with minors and were re-elected to their offices. Frank had a male prostitue hooking from his Congressional office and is now a top Democratic legislator.

Sorry about my lack of knowledge on IM's. Being of an older age, I don't use IM. I still find it odd this would all surface right before an election.

Under what rule could Hastert investigate. Only the Ethics Committee could investigate and there was not enough to go to the ethics committee.

They trusted Hastert to ... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

They trusted Hastert to do his job.

And the FBI?

If the child's parents felt it (the emails) was inapproriate behaviour on the part of Foley

and BTW, was that their excuse? Do you have a link of their interview? I would like to read it. They could be eligible for the world's worst parents award 2006.

Lee, most people with the m... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Lee, most people with the minimum computer savy know the IM/EM's are automatically saved. Most of us also clear them out to allow the system to operate a little faster. I limit my emails saved to 30 days and then clear. Delete and permanetly delete. Carriers allow so many MB of storage on their system and they will purge. If I only received a couple of emails or IM's per day I could keep them forever. I get a hundred or more per day so anyone with the system capacity to save everything for years must be one lonely and looney dude. Maybe a homosexual cruising for action like Foley or maybe his victims. The FBI will determine who broke the law, it's more likely Ross and the democrats than anyone else, since it will come out that they had to mine other people's private accounts to get the information.
All of this is for revenge by a homosexual group against a homosexual who voted against homosexual marriage. Twisted minds are behind it.

I question the allegation, ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

I question the allegation, and

I question the alligator.

The true colors of the cons... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

The true colors of the conservative right are showing. Scrapie's "revenge by a homosexual group" comment is just one of many I have noticed lately:
-Rush, the Dems are just mad that they did not get in on it.
-Tony Perkins on hardball said that gays are not welcome in the GOP.
-Buchanan, homosexuals have a proclivity towards molestation.
-On O'Reilly, a former page (Republican) said the acronym for Foley was FFF (Foley the fag from Florida)

I question the crocodile.</... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

I question the crocodile.

We're getting alot of mileage from this scandal.

I've posted this <a href="h... (Below threshold)

I've posted this challenge to all those who profess to be upset upset upset at not only what Foley did but also the possibility that he was being protected by House leaders.

Why stop with Foley? Let's look into all 535 of them... their staffers. After all, we're doing this to protect the kids.

Scrapiron,In addit... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Scrapiron,

In addition to what you said: How many people are even still using the same computer they were 3 years ago? I'll bet it's less that 25%.

Once you change computers, the likelyhood of still having your IM logs from before the change is next to nil unless you are a geek like me or are deliberately saving them for some other purpose.

Yesterday I set the under/o... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Yesterday I set the under/over at 2.5-days (Hastert resignation). The under is looking real good right now.

<a href="http://news.yahoo.... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Aide says he reported Foley 3 years ago

A senior congressional aide said Wednesday he told House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office about worrisome conduct by his former boss, Rep. Mark Foley (news, bio, voting record), toward teenage pages more than three years ago, long before officials have acknowledged becoming aware of the issue.

Kirk Fordham made his comments to The Associated Press in an interview as a Kentucky Republican canceled a campaign fundraising event with Hastert. Rep. Ron Lewis (news, bio, voting record) said he wants to know the facts behind a scandal that has roiled Republicans since last week.

"I'm taking the speaker's words at face value," Lewis said in an interview. "I have no reason to doubt him. But until this is cleared up, I want to know the facts.

"If anyone in our leadership has done anything wrong, then I will be the first in line to condemn it."

Taken together, the comments by Fordham and the actions by Lewis added to the political uncertainty surrounding Hastert and fellow Republicans five weeks before midterm elections in which their control of the House will be tested.

Hastert's office did not immediately respond to either development.

Looks those alligators got a piece of Foley and Hastert.

Hastert is toast. Good riddance to yet another lying Republican.

To follow-up on Lee's post:... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

To follow-up on Lee's post:

Hastert was warned about Foley three years ago by Fordham. Maybe it was this:
"A senior House Republican has asked the House clerk to look into allegations that then-Rep. Mark Foley was turned away from the congressional page dorm on Capitol Hill after arriving there intoxicated one night."

Lee thinks the House leader... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Lee thinks the House leadership should know about everything going on cuz it's their job.

I wonder if he thought Barney Frank should have known about everything going on in his own apartment? Like, say, oh, I don't know, a prostitution ring maybe?

Oh wait. I guess not.

The hypocracy of those on t... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

The hypocracy of those on the left comes to light once again. We have the Liberal Liar Lee, and the babbling badmouth Barney pumping out their BS like s sludge pump at a sewage plant. You two understand the term backfire? If not, hide and watch. When this is investigated, just remember all the lies you spewed forth and when you fail to win either the house or the senate. Remember why. By the way LLL, let us see an IM you saved from 3 years ago.

It is really sad to see a o... (Below threshold)
Derrick:

It is really sad to see a once proud group, forced to just make crap up. First, it was that it was impossible to keep the logs, then it was who keeps there logs, and now its that well I've heard all of the evidence but I just don't believe it because the Democrats have to be involved some way. You righties are reaaaaalllly reaching for some excuse to say, "Well everybody did it so you can't be mad at us." The lack of principle is really stunning, and shows just how bitterly partisan people have become.

And you lefties are really ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

And you lefties are really having to dig deep to finally find a way to even come close to winning elections. Once again you couldn't do it on your own ideas.

Very telling indeed.

how old was this intern sup... (Below threshold)
jp:

how old was this intern suppose to be when this was first reported? according to drudge right now the accuser is now 21......


anyone see the Gateway pundit post?

A noted member of the Slick... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

A noted member of the Slick Willie administration has made a public statement that he knows a reporter that has a list of members of the 'democratic' leadership that actually had access (for months) to the 'instant mails' (the slimey ones) that the republican leadership did not have.

Wonder when 'she' will publish and/or broadcast the list. Just give the democrats a little more time to dig the grave deeper. The grave fill itself. Sh** is slippery. Does anyone think the DNC under the inept Howling Howie has enough money to buy her off?

Those who have been sugg... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Those who have been suggesting that Democrats must have known about this for months and held it for maximum impact on the elections have just been shut down.

Hmmm, I pointed that out on Monday.

Those who live in glass hou... (Below threshold)
Buckeye:

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Before the trolls appoint themselves our moral counsellors they should clean their own house. There's Kennedy, Jefferson, Frank and Byrd for a start. And that's only the few that are well known.

Kaffir,The too-... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Kaffir,

The too-friendly e-mails were out in the media, unreported, for a year and then suddenly it is reported one month before the election.

They were out in the media, unreported? Isn't that an oxymoron? How could they be unreported and yet "in the media"?

en this report hits the news, some former page now around twenty just happens to have IM's from three years ago stacked on his desk in his college dorm and quickly dispatches them to Brian Ross

It takes almost no effort or disk space to save text files to a hard drive. They don't need to be printed or "stacked on his desk".

How many other people have IM's handy at a moments notice from three years ago?

Do you have any files saved on your computer? Can you open one? There you go.

Scraps,

Most of us also clear them out to allow the system to operate a little faster.

Some people know how to archive things.

I limit my emails saved to 30 days and then clear.

Everyone does things exactly as I do!

Carriers allow so many MB of storage on their system and they will purge.

Some people don't use webmail, dufus. Ever hear of POP3? I have email dating back to pre-Netscape days.

I get a hundred or more per day so anyone with the system capacity to save everything for years must be one lonely and looney dude.

First of all one would not have to save everything, maybe just important or noteworthy things like say, a congressman chattin' dirty to you. Secondly, text files take up almost no space whatsoever. I could fit all my email from the past several years on a thumb drive.

All of this is for revenge by a homosexual group against a homosexual who voted against homosexual marriage. Twisted minds are behind it.

It seems someone really likes the word homosexual. Hmmm.

according to Drudge, ABC li... (Below threshold)
jp:

according to Drudge, ABC lied when it said boy was underage....he was 18....DEVELOPING

"And speaking of Foley the ... (Below threshold)

"And speaking of Foley the Democrat - check this out. Talk about partisan biased news media! Faux News takes the cake. Identifying Foley on screen as a Democrat. What scum."

Gee Lee, FAKE NEWS actually did that? Noooooo, I haven't heard anything about it here on the Bang. Where did you see this? I am having a hard time believing that it's true.

Why stop with Foley? Let... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Why stop with Foley? Let's look into all 535 of them... their staffers. After all, we're doing this to protect the kids.

Well, Steve, probably because people came forward with allegations and evidence against Foley. I'm not saying that no other representatives or their staffs have done such things, but some of us think there needs to be a reason to investigate someone (though just being a politician is almost good enough. Almost.). We call it probable cause, and it's in the Constitution.

How much will the fact that... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

How much will the fact that the child used by Brian Ross in his story was over the age of 18 (now over 21) at the time (Ross had to know that) and not a 16 year old as hyped by Lee and the other nuts on every blog on the net.

Story at the Drudge Report and a link to the Bloggers that ran the story to ground.

I'll be back later to read ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

I'll be back later to read all of the 'well but' it could have been true. ROFL

Mantis, produce a 3 year ol... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Mantis, produce a 3 year old IM, or be known forever as the liar that you are.

I don't communicate with in... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I don't communicate with instant messaging, but if I did and while in high school (if instant messaging existed while I was in high school) some Congressman was hitting on me, I'd save it.

Btw the threat of being considered a liar by the likes of you is hardly worrisome.

Paging Lee? Paging Lee? W... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Paging Lee? Paging Lee? Where are you? Hiding now?

I suppose you will be just as mad at ABC in identifying the boy as underage when he was not.

Not to mention CNN keeps having captions as the "Lurid E-mails" when it wasn't e-mails, it was IMs.

Or is it just Fox you want to bitch about? You do want to be fair, right?

Lee has left the building.

Lee thinks the House lea... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Lee thinks the House leadership should know about everything going on cuz it's their job.

No, only the things that they're explicitly told about. Which has now been corroborated by more than three different Republicans. As they say, once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a trend.

My friends, you're all miss... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

My friends, you're all missing the point.

What exactly did Foley do?

Did he break the law or was he merely a reprobate?

Foley touched no one, and Democrats have a glorious history of abusing underage pages.

Stop defending this and make Democrats defend their continued support of perverts.

Foley has a future in the Democratic party, should he desire it.

Foley has 14th Amendment rights, too.

Looks like Foley was the fo... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Looks like Foley was the fool. If he had just had sex with someone underage (Studds), if he had just driven home drunk and caused one to drown (Kennedy), let someone run a sex ring in his apt. (Frank) or just killed one of em (Condit) he could have been given a pass by the Dems.

Of course, that "pass" would be right after he changed his party affiliation, of course.

Party above all.

Stop defending this<... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Stop defending this

Yes, please stop defending this. Excellent strategy.

Distasteful as it is, all F... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Distasteful as it is, all Foley did was identical to what Clinton did. Sexual communication between people above the age of consent.

I just wonder where the people calling for Foley's head were just a couple o' years ago.

Foley being gone is a good thing. He's an utter sleaze without anything worth redeeming at this point.

But it seems one side is consistent in their condemnation of this behavior.

The other side? Well, not so much.
-=Mike

Mantis, if you've had the s... (Below threshold)
wavemaker:

Mantis, if you've had the same IM account for three years, chances are you've got all your messages archived --




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