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Goldberg On The Democrats' New Standard

Jonah Goldberg admits that Democrats may reap some electoral success from their feigned moral outrage over the Foley scandal, but says they will pay for their hypocrisy in the long run.


Comments (38)

I've mentioned this before:... (Below threshold)
cirby:

I've mentioned this before: when Dems go to the next stage of "Get Foley and His Pals," it's going to blow up in their faces. There's already been talk about "The List" of people in Congress who are gay, with Republicans apparently at the top of that list.

Conveniently forgetting, of course, that the rest of that list is going to be made up of Democrats, many of them in positions of power over younger folks.

Then, of course, there's the more-direct "influence over pages in a bad way" situation, which would almost certainly end up with someone bagging a Kennedy.

Jonah is a typical conserva... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Jonah is a typical conservative air-head.

" Democratic strategist Bob Beckel suggested this week that the mere fact Foley is gay should have "raised questions" about his friendships with pages. If Foley were a Democrat and GOP spinners suggested gays are automatically suspect as predators, the now-silent Human Rights Campaign and other gay rights groups would go ballistic."

Let's go back and look at Goldberg's dishonesty (empshasis added).

"Democratic strategist Bob Beckel suggested this week that the mere fact Foley is gay should have "raised questions" about his friendships with pages."

Note "raised questions about his friendships with pages". Yes, responsible adults would agree that a 50 year old gay man asking a 16 year old boy for his picture is a red flag.

Goldberg continues: "If Foley were a Democrat and GOP spinners suggested gays are automatically suspect as predators, the now-silent Human Rights Campaign and other gay rights groups would go ballistic."

Yes, they would go ballistic, and rightly so.

Absent the fact that Foley was asking a 16 year old male page for his picture (which Goldberg conveniently leaves out in the second sentence), the mere fact that Foley was gay does not raise any flags. Goldberg's attempt to justify Hastert's inaction, by suggesting it would cause the gay groups to go ballistic, and that Democrats are therefore hypocritical, is pure Republican b*llshit.

Goldberg, and the rest of the Republican spin doctors, are being dishonest and deceitful in their attempts to deflect reponsibility for Hastert's failings, and to smear Democrats with this scandal.

My advice to Republicans - own it, fix it, and go forward -- but no, efforts such as these to deflect blame only tighten the noose further.

No Democrats suggested that gay men are automatically suspect as predators -- but a gay man who is emailing 16 year olds asking for their picture is reason to look futher - or at least would be to any thinking, reponsible adult.

Sadly, there seems to be fewer and fewer responsibile adults in the ranks of Republicans speaking out on this issue.

Note "raised questions a... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Note "raised questions about his friendships with pages". Yes, responsible adults would agree that a 50 year old gay man asking a 16 year old boy for his picture is a red flag.

Except that is NOT what he was saying.

Beckel said that the mere fact that Foley was gay was what should have raised questions, not his creepy actions.

Lee, Goldberg is right on t... (Below threshold)
jdavenport:

Lee, Goldberg is right on the money in this article.

And you are a blinded partisan hack.

Cirby, your blind partisans... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Cirby, your blind partisanship is preventing you from understanding the words. Read it again, and think about the words before reacting.

jdavenport - see Cirby.

'Yes, responsible adults wo... (Below threshold)
hermie:

'Yes, responsible adults would agree that a 50 year old gay man asking a 16 year old boy for his picture is a red flag.'

So we would have to automatically assume that because Foley is gay, he should automatically be suspected of something?

If a 50 year old straight man asked for a picture, that would be strange, but not a 'red flag'?

So Foley's being gay is the key factor that would place him under suspicion of planning something creepy. So according to Lee we should always suspect gay people because darn it...they just should be.

Cirby, your blind partis... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Cirby, your blind partisanship is preventing you from understanding the words. Read it again, and think about the words before reacting.

I read the words, you just didn't write them very well.

From your original:

No Democrats suggested that gay men are automatically suspect as predators

Uh, yeah, they really did. As noted above. At least twice. Once by you, with a really sad explanation as to why "the mere fact Foley is gay" isn't "the mere fact Foley is gay." But I guess it comes back to what your definition of "is" is.

Lee hit om something with h... (Below threshold)

Lee hit om something with his 'fewer and fewer responsible adults' comment.

From what I gather, Foley sent out a couple of emails, they got brought to Hastert's attention, and he called Foley on the carpet and told him to control himself. Okay - that's all well and good. However, you've got to wonder about a 50 year old man who hasn't gotten himself under control - when, if ever, will he?

I don't see that Hastert did anything more than was needed there. You tell a 50-year old that his actions aren't proper for the office he holds, you'd think that would be sufficient. If Foley had any sense, that would have been it right there.

But he didn't. Foley was stupid, and got caught in an IM prank. He resigned, and good riddence there.

Okay, Foley's gone - here's my question...

How in the hell was Hastert supposed to know about Foley's IMs? And WHY should he be responsible for what Hastert did after being warned to cool it?

A responsible adult takes the blame for his own mistakes. Short of a constant tap on Foley's IMs and emails, what was Hastert supposed to do? Have him followed 24/7? (Yeah, that'd fly.)

At some point you've got to figure an adult knows how to act like an adult. When it's proven wrong, you get rid of the adult that caused the problem.

Foley's gone. And that's all that was necessary, as far as I'm concerned. Because after admonishing Foley, there wasn't anything else Hastert could legally do.

Correction: And WHY should... (Below threshold)

Correction: And WHY should he be responsible for what FOLEY did after being warned to cool it?

"So we would have to aut... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"So we would have to automatically assume that because Foley is gay, he should automatically be suspected of something?

No, hermie, the mere fact that Foley is gay DOES NOT mean that he is automatically suspect - the fact that he is a 52 year old gay man ASKING A 16 YEAR OLD BOY FOR HIS PICTURE does mean you look further - not hang him, but look further.

If a 50 year old straight man asked for a picture, that would be strange, but not a 'red flag'?

It would in my mind, but I'm a responsible adult and a parent of 4. You will probably get diferent answers on that.

A gay man? Absolutely reason to look further.

"So Foley's being gay is the key factor that would place him under suspicion of planning something creepy. So according to Lee we should always suspect gay people because darn it...they just should be."

Only if they are asking a 16 year old boy for his picture, hermie. Can't you read?

Hastert had no information ... (Below threshold)
hermie:

Hastert had no information about the IMs, and since nobody else brought a subsequent complaint (well not an actual complaint, but a concern), he had no reason to suspect that Foley didn't do what he was told. What could Hastert have done, tell the Capitol Police to monitor Foley's comuter messages? On what grounds? Could Hastert give the same request if he suspected a Congressman of hiding bribe money in his freezer?

How in the hell was Hast... (Below threshold)
cirby:

How in the hell was Hastert supposed to know about Foley's IMs?

Some Democrat should have told him. From the reports, they had access to some of them since April or so.

No, hermie, the mere fac... (Below threshold)
cirby:

No, hermie, the mere fact that Foley is gay DOES NOT mean that he is automatically suspect -

Take it up with Democratic strategist Bob Beckel, who said exactly the opposite.

I can just hear Lee saying ... (Below threshold)
hermie:

I can just hear Lee saying "Damn! Rove got to Beckel too!"

cirby, - show us what Becke... (Below threshold)
Lee:

cirby, - show us what Beckel said, and let's talk about it.

With the reading comprehension problems that are surfacing on this comment thread, it's worth looking at Beckel's exact words, don't you think?

Do you have a quote or a link? Anyone?

The dem's and the homosexua... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

The dem's and the homosexual's aren't going to like the actual result of their actions in the past week. Ask the average person what they think of the mess and the honest answer will be 'The homosexuals shouldn't be in the government anyway'. That is the honest, no pressure answer of 75% or more of the citizens. Dem's can whine and cry and say it ain't so, bad news it is true. The dem's themselves set their drive for homosexual rights back 50 years. Now you may be able to pass laws but you can't force the people to accept them. All you accomplished was to increase the number and of midnight riders. Not actual riders, but more people to make fun of and tell jokes about dem' and their support of homosexuals. Already, 'bend a page over' has became part of the daily language and they aren't joking about books. The more they push it the bigger the backlash will be. It's enough to say that Peloshi will forget about draining the swamp when she finds she's up to her ass in alligators.

We must warn Child Protecti... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

We must warn Child Protective Services of Lee's behavior on this site. He is endangering his children, no doubt, by his extreme viewpoints on issues of importance. So Lee, why should we allow gay scoutmasters? Is it not a red flag that a gay wants to be around and guide underage boys. We do not allow men to run the girlscouts. Lee, you do not see the hypocracy of you position because you are blinded by BDS. I do not understand why you continue at this site. You are made to look the fool daily.

Zelda the closet Nazi said:... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Zelda the closet Nazi said: "Ask the average person what they think of the mess and the honest answer will be 'The homosexuals shouldn't be in the government anyway'."

And I'm speechless.

What ever happened to that ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

What ever happened to that Bush bounce? This is not good news for Republicans:

Only 38% of respondents in the TIME poll now support President Bush's decision to invade Iraq, down from 42% three months ago

54% believe he "deliberately misled" Americans in making his case for war

Bush's overall approval rating, according to TIME's poll, now stands at just 36%,

Even before the Foley scandal, the portion of white evangelicals with a "favorable" impression of the Republican Party had fallen sharply this year, from 63 percent to 54 percent, according to Pew polls.

Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves....if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be "Bible-believing Christians" as adults.

WASHINGTON -- House Republican candidates will suffer massive losses if House Speaker Dennis Hastert remains speaker until Election Day, according to internal polling data from a prominent GOP pollster, FOX News has learned.

Did you notice that old "pu... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Did you notice that old "pucker puss" (lee lee) cannot take a crap without a link? And he has to squat and quote someone before he can pee pee.

Can I get this straight:</p... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Can I get this straight:

The government CANNOT listen to telephone conversations with terrorists.

The government, though, is SUPPOSED to read IM's from a citizen and punish him based on it.

Sure, makes sense. Perfect consistency there.

Never mind that, in a purely legal manner, the only difference between Foley and Clinton is that Foley didn't have sex with his underling.
-=Mike

MikeSC: The democrats are s... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

MikeSC: The democrats are so confused by their own flip flops they can't remember what they said yesterday or what they're supposed to say today.

What's fair for the goose is not fair for the gander in the liberal world.

This scandal is only a carryover from 1997 when it evidently started. The law then was 'anything goes' because Slick Willie got caught with his pants unzipped. No problem with that, just not in the white house while conducting the business of the American people.

The democrats really have thrown the homosexuals that support them to the wolves. Loyalty to the country or to anyone means nothing to a democrat when a vote is at stake.

No, MikeSC - you missed the... (Below threshold)

No, MikeSC - you missed the most important difference between the two.

One's a Democrat. One's a Republican. And the standards for Democrats are, um, 'different'.

You raise a good point, though - how the hell was Hastert supposed to know about this stuff, AND keep Foley from IMing? 24/7 survelliance? Taps? Seems to me like Hastert calling him on the carpet and telling him to quit emailing kids was sufficient - that Foley did what he did is Foley's fault, not Hastert's, and to expect Hastert to violate Foley's right to privacy wouldn't exactly be legal.

J.

But according to Lee, it's ... (Below threshold)
hermie:

But according to Lee, it's alright to illegally violate a gay man's privacy, as long as he is a Republican.

My favorite blindy-loyal Re... (Below threshold)
jp2:

My favorite blindy-loyal Republican tactic - "everything is good for Republicans."

Lorie nails it. Keep it up!

We should listen to Goldber... (Below threshold)
Robert:

We should listen to Goldberg.
In the past, he was right about...uhm...ahh..
Give me a century, I'll think of something he's been right about in the past.

Democratic hero's."... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Democratic hero's.
"an ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate." (Thanks to the previous poster)

When you read Lee's comments just remember he is bought and paid for, and his talking points come streight from the 'Howling Howie' wing of what was once the people's party.

He gives himself away when you question his support for the Socialist/Communist wing of the democratic party. He alway responds that you are a "nazi". Socialist/Communist have never allowed an opposing view.
If we were Nazi's , and he harp's, Lee would never see daylight again. He would be fish or dog food by midnight.

According to Lee the FBI should have every homosexual under watch 24-7.
The democrats have turned the attack dogs loose and I understand there is an organization (democratic controlled)that has identified several homosexuals that work in all level of government and will out all of them if they don't submit to blackmail. Now the FBI should really be on this.

It just gets more comical.

Keep spinning those lies, S... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Keep spinning those lies, Scrappy - and doing the opposite of what I tell you to do - I'm counting on you!

Who in the fu*k are you Lea... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Who in the fu*k are you Lea, to tell anyone what to do. Huh, Lea. You have some nerve. You act like you have answers when all you spew forth are lies. I am suprised they have not banned you from this site. You are not entertaining, you have no right to this site. You are here as a guest, yet you differ with your host daily, while lying your ass off. I don't know where you get off, or where you got on.

Zelda, the resident closet ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Zelda, the resident closet Nazi, hates me - now I know I'm on the right track.

It's amazing --- Clinton co... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

It's amazing --- Clinton commits perjury and it's a "personal matter"

Foley doesn't actually break a single law and it's a massive cover-up conspiracy by the Republicans.

Amazing.

Feel free to point out what, precisely, was illegal in any of this?

Pedophilia? Nope. Everybody was of legal age and no, you know, sex was had.

Stalking? The emails and IMs stopped when asked --- so no on that one.

Was it because it was a gay guy doing it, thus making it "creepy" to many of you, that has led to this being such an uproar amongst the tolerant left?

I don't approve gay marriage. The left, apparently, approves criminalizing gay behavior and flirtation, no matter how clumsy and inept it may have been.
-=Mike

Hut-o someone else knows ol... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hut-o someone else knows old "pucker puss" (lee Lee) now. Sorry "pucker" you are not speechless you are brainless.

MikeSC,I think you... (Below threshold)

MikeSC,

I think you're very correct. There is no crime here, at least knowing what we know now. While I personally wouldn't ever vote for a congressman (or president) who engaged in this type of behavior with current or former subordinates under the age of 18, I don't see what laws have been broken or why this is such a huge deal. If the Republican leadership had simply stood up at the beginning and said what you did, this story might already have been over.

But, they didn't. Mark Foley resigned so fast it made all heads spin. Boehner contradicted Hastert, then took it back, then took back his take back. Fordham resigned and took umbrage that he seemed to be the designated scapegoat and immediately said he was going to spill his guts to the FBI. When you have a people acting that guilty, the media pounces and the political, scandal-driven firestorm takes over until it burns itself out. Even after it got going, the Republicans just kept fueling it. Not too smart. If there's no crime, it's not sensible to act so deceptive.

Note "raised quest... (Below threshold)
Mark A. Flacy:
Note "raised questions about his friendships with pages". Yes, responsible adults would agree that a 50 year old gay man asking a 16 year old boy for his picture is a red flag.

Yep, there is absolutely no reason he would do such a thing.

foley's folly is foiled by ... (Below threshold)
Krusher:

foley's folly is foiled by friends of faggots who feign frightful failings.

I said: "No, hermie, the... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I said: "No, hermie, the mere fact that Foley is gay DOES NOT mean that he is automatically suspect -"

Hemris said: "Take it up with Democratic strategist Bob Beckel, who said exactly the opposite."

No, what Beckel said is that a gay man who is trying to be pals with 16 year old pages is reason got be suspect. There is a huge difference. Quit lying.

I noticed you didn't bold t... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

I noticed you didn't bold that Beckel said that a gay man should be held to differing standards than straight men.

...yet the left ALSO thinks the Boy Scouts are mean for not having gay leaders.

Weird.
-=Mike

No, what Beckel said is... (Below threshold)
Matin A. Knight:
    No, what Beckel said is that a gay man who is trying to be pals with 16 year old pages is reason got be suspect. There is a huge difference.

Should I then be suspicious of gay men who want to be Boy Scout Leaders? After all, Scout Leaders must neccessarily be somewhat friendly with the young boys and teens under their care.

There's a logical disconnect here ...




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