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The Foley Fallout

Yesterday, my little piece on the Foley mess generated a LOT of heated arguments. As I read through the comments, a few thoughts came to mind.

1) VagaBond wondered how, if Foley is never formally charged with a crime, could anyone else be charged in the mess. Yeah, they could. Look at the Valerie Plame case -- the actual leaker, Richard Armitage, is utterly in the clear, but Scooter Libby is still facing perjury charges.

2) The effect on the November elections: I expect very little. There simply isn't a national election this year -- there are 435 state district elections and 33 or 34 (I don't feel like looking up the precise number) state-wide elections. The Democrats will TRY to hang Foley around the necks of Republicans, but the simple fact is that unless they can connect the voter's individual representative to Foley directly, he won't be a factor.

2A) A lot of people tend to forget that we don't have national elections here. Ever. Even when we elect presidents, we have 51 individual elections, and the winner is not the guy who gets the most votes, but gets the most votes in the right states. Hell, if one candidate took just the ten most populous states and didn't win a single vote in any other state, they'd still squeak out a victory.

3) For better or worse, the bar has been raised considerably on what is and is not considered acceptable conduct for members of Congress. 20 years ago, having sex with 17-year-old pages was grounds for censure. Just six years ago, former Congressman Mel Reynolds was serving jail time for having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker (and attempting to lure her younger sister into the sordid mess), but his sentence for that and serious financial improprieties was commuted by then-outgoing President Clinton. Now, trying to have cybersex with a page is, politically, a capital offense.

4) Neither party has a monopoly on virtue and morality, and neither has a lock on sleazebags. Those who say that the Foley scandal -- or the Reynolds scandal, or the Condit scandal, or the Studds scandal, or the Frank scandal -- is an exemplar of a partisan hack trying to score points at any expense.

5) The fact is that nearly every member of Congress belongs to the same party. That party is not the Democratic or the Republican party, but the Incumbent party. And the partisanship that engenders can be far fiercer than either of the two formal parties can produce.

6) This is purely speculative on my part, but it seems that political affiliation seems to play a part in how scandals -- especially sex scandals -- are handled. Republican offenses tend to raise the bar in acceptable conduct, while Democrat peccadilloes seem to, if I may steal a phrase, "define deviancy down." Dan Crane (R) had an affair with a female intern, and was made a pariah. At the same time, Gerry Studds (D) had an affair with a male page and was censured, turned his back on the House when the censure was read, then welcomed back into the fold -- to the point where the Democratic leadership appointed him chairman of a committee.

Prior to Bill Clinton, a president engaging in sexual relations with a 22-year-old subordinate in the Oval Office -- and then lying about it under oath -- would have been grounds for resignation or removal from office. But Clintons survived that scandal and left office still holding remarkable popularity.

A clergyman fathering an illegitimate child on a member of his staff, the using his organization to pay her to keep silent? That's the stuff of bad drama -- or a slice of the life story of the Reverend Jesse Jackson. Compared to that, Jimmy Swaggart's dallying with a prostitute seems pretty minor, and Jim Bakker's rather comparable. Those two self-styled men of God became pariahs; Jackson remains a figure of much renown and influence.

Clinton and Jackson were, ironically, instrumental in the attempted reformation of former Congressman Mel Reynolds (D-IL), who was convicted of having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker and various and sundry financial misdoings. Clinton, as one of his last acts, commuted Reynolds' sentence and Jackson hired him as an advisor for his Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, leading to the rather remarkable circumstance of "an ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate."

Given my druthers, I think I prefer conservative scandals. They tend to leave the offender a bit more thoroughly chastised, and seem better at setting precedent for acceptable conduct.

7) While there was potential for Democrats to make some hay out of the whole mess, they -- to use a phrase most often applied to the Palestinians -- "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." They fell victim to their historical error and are overplaying their hand, as so well noted by Dafydd ab Hugh.

In the end, though, I think the main consequence of the Foley mess will be a general suspicion of members of Congress in general, but not much on people's individual represenatives and senators specifically -- and they are the only ones who decide if they will be returned to Washington or sent packing.

And as for Foley himself: he is in rehab for his "alcoholism" and, after, will no doubt seek counseling for his "sex addiction" and "abuse by a clergy member." (A local talk show opened the lines for suggestions for Foley's next excuse, noting that he seems to be going right down the list of standards. My favorite: Post-partum depression.) But even if he is never charged criminally, he will always be a pariah and the butt (sorry) of jokes and a cheap punchline -- and that is the very least he deserves.


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Comments (86)

I vote that we move on from... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

I vote that we move on from all this and let the chips fall where they may.

Hugh knows that an ongoing ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Hugh knows that an ongoing focus on this will bag many democrats.

Jo:You are a frigg... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Jo:

You are a friggin idiot. Let the chips fall where they may. Duh. jesus you're stupid. Can't see beyond you're friggin wingnut loonie glasses.

Jo:You are a frigg... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Jo:

You are a friggin idiot. Let the chips fall where they may. Duh. jesus you're stupid. Can't see beyond you're friggin wingnut loonie glasses.

Hugh, My advice is that Dem... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Hugh, My advice is that Democrats give Republicans as much rope as they want. Keep the dialog going on this, and let the Republicans continue their currrent course. They are losing more ground with each lie and smear, and since that's all they know how to do, they aren't going to stop unless we turn down the heat.

I say DO NOT turn down the heat. The Republicans have attempted to turn the tables and push this back onto the Democrats. Let them push. Let them make all the noise they want. It keeps the story in the headlines and on tehminds of Americans, and there are enough thinking, responsible parents out there that realize what the Republicans are doing that the Republicans will only lose more votes with this course.

Let them.

Lee: It is time for... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

Lee:
It is time for your nap. Take your milk and cookies like a good little boy.

Prior to Bill Clinton, a... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Prior to Bill Clinton, a president engaging in sexual relations with a 22-year-old subordinate in the Oval Office -- and then lying about it under oath -- would have been grounds for resignation or removal from office.

Gimme a break. Before Clinton, presidents had affairs left and right, and no one gave a damn. Nowadays, you guys want to bring charges for it. (Yes, Clinton purjured, but for charges that should never have been brought in the first place.)

"Sex has been part of politics forever. The private affairs of past presidents including Dwight Eisenhower and Franklin Roosevelt are now a matter of public record. Yet it is not the behavior itself, but the public's interest in it, along with standards of propriety and morality, that have changed."

"In those days, however, there was a sort of an understanding in the press that a responsible, conscientious journalist would not write about anybody's private life."

"In 2003, historian Robert Dallek's scholarly, substantive biography of John Kennedy, An Unfinished Life, made headlines with its revelation that Kennedy had had a secret affair with a young White house intern. Though the information occupied just two lines of an 838-page book, it exploded in the media."

"Yet Dallek regarded the intern's significance as small, in the overall picture. 'There are much bigger, more important issues.... Nuclear weapons, relations with the Soviet Union, Vietnam, Cuba. These are the big issues, and the intern thing is sort of a footnote to history.'"

Source

So don't pretend for a second that Clinton was worse than anyone else, or that he broke some new ground. He did what they've all done. It's you guys who have changed.

I say DO NOT turn down t... (Below threshold)
Luke:

I say DO NOT turn down the heat.

I agree with Lee. Keep the debate ongoing. Let the public see just how shallow the Democrats really are with this issue.

North Korea testing nukes, the Iraq war ongoing, the Iranians refusing to stop their nuke programs, etc, etc. I'm sure cybersex by Foley is foremost on the American people's minds.

Geez! What an idiot.

Nice to be the only one men... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Nice to be the only one mentioned in your piece there, Jay.

BUT...what I meant was that if Foley was not charged with a crime for the emails, how can knowing about the email be a crime?

The Armitage and Libby is a whole different situation and doesn't apply. Libby perjuered himself under testimony. See the difference?

Oh yeah, almost forgot.... (Below threshold)
Luke:

Oh yeah, almost forgot.

If N. Korea sets off a nuke this weekend without killing themselves in the process (highly probable), the Presidents numbers, and the Republicans go way up.

Does any sane individual think this country will turn national security over the the leftist moonbats?

For better or wors... (Below threshold)
OregonMuse:
For better or worse, the bar has been raised considerably on what is and is not considered acceptable conduct for members of Congress.

Only for Republican congressmen, though Democrats will be able to go on boinking subordinates with impunity, as the MSM will continue to run interference for them.

The Republican lies about I... (Below threshold)
Lee:

The Republican lies about Iraq, and the failure of this administration in Iraq, are well-known. One need only look at the polls for American's opinions on that issue, Luke. And more lies are being revealed in the headlines daily.

The Republicans' failed (disastrous) foreign policy debacles are also well-known - and the fact that Bush is a non-player with respect to Iran and N. Korea speaks volumes all on its own. The big-bad Texas cowboy has to sit this one out, and let the EU and the U.N. handle the matter. It's a nice, public spanking fo President Bush that all Americans should be proud of (not!).

Those issues aren't going to go away before election day - and neither will the failures of the Republican leadership with respect to Foley, if I can help it.

I'm glad you agree - let's keep the discussion going.

Looks like OregonMuse is in... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Looks like OregonMuse is in favor of Republican Congressman practicing pedophilia - because the Democrats are boinking subordinates?

Tell the parents of the Congressional pages that line of reasoning, OM,and see what kind of reaction you get.

Lee, I offer proof that you... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Lee, I offer proof that you are a complete idiot. By fact, and your own words. You said Bush failed in Iraq. Who was Presidemt in Iraq in 1998 when Clinton signed the declaration for toppling the Government of Iraq. My question to you is. Is Saddam disarmed or not? Take your time. That was the purpose of Iraqi Freedom. I saw Saddam in the docket on TV last week. He looked disarmed. Like I said, Lee, you are a fool.

Vagabond: "BUT...what I ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Vagabond: "BUT...what I meant was that if Foley was not charged with a crime for the emails, how can knowing about the email be a crime?"

Hastert knew more about this than just the emails, and he knew it three years ago and sat on it.

Aide: I told Hastert staff about Foley 3 years ago

A longtime chief of staff to disgraced former Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla., approached House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office more than three years ago, repeatedly imploring senior Republicans to help stop Foley's advances toward teenage male pages, the aide said Wednesday.

The aide is a Republican. Are you nutcakes going to accuse him of being a Democratic operative also? lol!

This was FOLEY'S CHIEF OF STAFF, who obviously knew what Foley was up to THREE YEARS AGO, and who told Hastert THREE YEARS AGO what was going on....

Yes Lee, and Hastert told h... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Yes Lee, and Hastert told him to stop sending e-mails. The pages parents did not wish to pursue the matter. What part of there was nothing there do you not understand. Or are you using your fabulous 20/20 hindsight again? You are nothing but a liar. STFU.

(Yes, Clinton purjured, ... (Below threshold)

(Yes, Clinton purjured, but for charges that should never have been brought in the first place.)

So, from now on, all sexual harassment cases should be thrown out of court?

That's what your statement implies.

Hey Lee, I suggest (honestl... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Hey Lee, I suggest (honestly) that they line EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of Congress up, both houses, and them ALL answer these questions under oath:

Senator/CongressPerson, for the purposes of this questioning the word "SEX" is intended to include Oral Sex, Non-Physical Sex (phone, internet, IM) and touching of ANY kind.
1. have you ever had sex with anyone who was under the age of 18?
2. have you ever made advances of any sexual kind towards anyone who was under the age of 18?
3. have you ever knowingly harbored anyone who was engaged in any illicit sexual conduct or enterprise?

etc. Then have the FBI seize the PCs and phone records of EVERY SINGLE one and prosecute every one who was lying.

I would be any amount of money we'd frog-march more Dimocrats out of Congress than Republicans. Though there would certainly be a lonnnnng line of frog-marchers!!

Hugh you are the idiot. An... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Hugh you are the idiot. And reading Lee's post is like watching comedy.
Meanwhile, why won't Pelosi take a polygraph?

I love reminding everyone h... (Below threshold)
Jo:

I love reminding everyone how Clinton was doing far more lurid things with an intern just a few years older. I love how we're bringing up Gerry Studds and Barney Frank again. The more of this the better.

Jo:I'll tell you w... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Jo:

I'll tell you what. I'll try and get her to take one right after the republican leadership of the house does. How does that sound? Ach, you probably want Bill Clinton to take one to don't ya?

See my previous description of you.

What ever happened to that ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

What ever happened to that Bush bounce? This is not good news for Republicans:

Only 38% of respondents in the TIME poll now support President Bush's decision to invade Iraq, down from 42% three months ago

54% believe he "deliberately misled" Americans in making his case for war

Bush's overall approval rating, according to TIME's poll, now stands at just 36%,

Even before the Foley scandal, the portion of white evangelicals with a "favorable" impression of the Republican Party had fallen sharply this year, from 63 percent to 54 percent, according to Pew polls.

Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves....if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be "Bible-believing Christians" as adults.

WASHINGTON -- House Republican candidates will suffer massive losses if House Speaker Dennis Hastert remains speaker until Election Day, according to internal polling data from a prominent GOP pollster, FOX News has learned.

Will any Democrat deny that... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

Will any Democrat deny that if Foley were a Democrat he would still be in Congress and probably re-elected next month?

"The Republican lies about ... (Below threshold)
Tony:

"The Republican lies about Iraq, and the failure of this administration in Iraq, are well-known. One need only look at the polls for American's opinions on that issue, Luke. And more lies are being revealed in the headlines daily." -Lee


Right, because Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il base everything they do on American polls. That's the kind of thought we need to utilize when making decisions for our country!!

Wonder why old "pucker puss... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Wonder why old "pucker puss" (lee lee) goes to the trouble of signing his post? I knew it was him after see only 1/2 of the 1st sentence. Broken record--over and over-- an--ov a --o

Pucker Puss was for under-a... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Pucker Puss was for under-age gay scandals (Studds) before he was against them (Foley).

Isn't that the way the Dems like to handle this issue, the one of hypocrisy they have to hurdle every day?

It's kind of pathetic to see Lee and Barney get so excited over something so insignificant. When your party has very little philosophical/intellectual credibility, what's left?

Next thing you know, they'll want an investigation into why the President's dog died of "mysterious" causes recently.

Wasn't his name Barney? Is this proof of the second coming (of a dog, that is)?

Proud Kaffir - I suspect th... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Proud Kaffir - I suspect the gross hypocrisy of the "Traditional Values" Republican platform was a factor in Foley's hasty capitulation and resignation. Foley is a "greater disgrace" because of that hypocrisy, no doubt. A gay Democrat in that same position may have tried to hold on longer, and fight the matter. It's impossibile to say, but I concede that there is a possibility of that happening. I do not buy into the suggestion that they would have been re-elected.

I also think that all of these comparisons to Democratic sex scandals of the past just don't hold water. Those scandals have had a cumulative effect on America's views on these matters -- in fact the relentless pursuit of Bill Clinton by the Republicans 8 years ago has probably contributed to the "hair trigger" we now see on sex-related Washington scandals. The nation has "gown wiser" with respect to what is acceptable or not in public office.

Foley has resigned, and may be criminally prosecuted. The matter that's still boiling is the coverup and denial by Hastert. What did he know, and when did he know it?

He knew of major problems three years ago is the short answer. Suggesting that if a Democrat did something similar it would be a differnt story, or pointing to Bill Clinton and making it his fault, are really just attempts to duck the elephant standing in the living room -- deal with the elephant.

As I've said before I honestly think Republicans should own this problem, solve it, and move on -- and that you are only hurting your party by pushing this off on the Democrats. Hastert's resignation would not stop the ethics committee investigation, but it would make the outcome of that investigation much less interesting, and less newsworthy. He took the first step yesterday, by admitting it was his reponsibility. He now needs to do the right thing to get this off the headlines and minds of Americans, -- if he's smart, and resign.

But fight on if you must, oh brave Republicans. Good luck.

Hey "pucker" one word-----H... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey "pucker" one word-----HILARIOUS!!!!!!

Since the activity by Foley... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Since the activity by Foley has now been tracked back to 1997 (Slick Willie Years), prior to Hastert becoming speaker, could it be a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'? There is something else nagging me about 1997, i'm trying to pull it up. Maybe it'll come to me later. LMAO

As I've said before I ho... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

As I've said before I honestly think Republicans should own this problem, solve it, and move on -- and that you are only hurting your party by pushing this off on the Democrats. Hastert's resignation would not stop the ethics committee investigation, but it would make the outcome of that investigation much less interesting, and less newsworthy. He took the first step yesterday, by admitting it was his reponsibility. He now needs to do the right thing to get this off the headlines and minds of Americans, -- if he's smart, and resign.

Funny. Tip O'Neill seemed oblivious to Gerry Studds diddling young boys for about a decade.
-=Mike

As big as Tip O'Neill was, ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

As big as Tip O'Neill was, he's not the elephant the Republicans should be concerned with right now -- but why don't you contact the Republican leadership, MikeSC, and advise them that they shoud just ignore this whole matter "just the way tip O'Neill did".

Do you need their email addresses?

Of course, emailing them and advising them to force Hastert out is a smarter move, but that's your decision -- and as a Democrat I'm perfectly ok with you not doing that.

Of course, emailing them... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

Of course, emailing them and advising them to force Hastert out is a smarter move, but that's your decision

Really Lee, is that what we should do? How nice of someone so blindly partisan to give such insightful, unsolicited advice. I'm sure the emails will be free flowing from everyone who reads that post.

Although, anyone who has read the bile you put forth on these comment threads knows that the opposite of what you suggest is the right thing to do.

The only reason this scandal will continue is because Democrats will constantly try to use it to tar all Republicans. Most sane people will see through this and this scandal will go by the way side as election day approaches.

But you go ahead with the advice, it is amusing to read.

papalovesmambo weighs in on... (Below threshold)
chita33:

papalovesmambo weighs in on foleygate:

i find myself in the uncomfortable situation of wondering if the gop can hold onto even one house of congress in the wake of foleygate. the charges of hypocrisy against the dems for their treatement of the stubbs case many moons ago rings hollow across the blogosphere. the "we didn't know how bad it was" defense being brought out by hastert and company merely cements the vision of the gop as incompetent. blaming the messenger and trying to re-frame it as a hit job from the left will gain absolutely no traction. the scandal will as podheretz notes today in the post (ny not washington) depress gop turnout as they are hoisted on their own gay ppetard. the issue that helped them win in '02 and '04 will sink them in '06 as the faithful puke their collective guts out that their party at the very least didn't catch a wolf in the fold and at the worst allowed him to prey for political power (no the irony is not lost on me).

i don't see any way out. i was never a believer in the promise of rove's "october surprise" and thought it was being hyped by the other side in a brilliant strategy to minimize any effect it could have. if i tried to spin this the only thing i could come up with was that foley was a sacrificial lamb that was offered up in the knowledge that the investigation would yield far more democratic names. but even i don't buy that one. nope, we need a miracle and i don't think turd blossom's got one. if they knew, and knowingly allowed him to stay in power, they deserve every bit of the fallout. i still hope that the inconceivable might happen and the gop might stay in power as i fear for the future of the country should the democrats be handed the reins (despite all of this i still trust the gop more in a time of war), but i am no longer the optimist that i was.

btw, i'm not actually blaming the glbt community for this catastrophe in any way shape or form. that was purely a sarcastic take on the situation and an opportunity for an entendre.

gee, how many folks around here would have had a few extra bucks in their pockets had they had more faith in their party?

-papalovesmambo

What I find odd is not one ... (Below threshold)

What I find odd is not one single liberal here or in other threads have demonstrated as much (or any, for that matter) loathing for all the past sex scandals brought up as they have shown for what just happens to be the last one in a long string of such scandals. Not a word to condemn them or even acknowledge it. That speaks volumes to me.

Ah, but this one is a Republican! Those damn hypocrites! Do not deny for an instant that Republicans are the only ones who speak of values. We hear enough too from Democrats about family values. It's a universal thing and to hold one side responsible for what they say, as Lee has, without the other is absurd. The hypocrisy of your indignation gets pointed out with glaring spotlights and you guys are totally blind to it.

No one here is saying that Foley isn't disgusting. They're only saying that before you even know the facts, you want others hung from the rafters as well. More hypocrisy. Since you're the ones always shouting how people are innocent until proven guilty. Even terrorists.

This was rich:
"...an ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate."

Nice.

This was good too: Brian brings up four Presidents who have had affairs. Three were Democrats. lol!

Other then some sleazy emai... (Below threshold)

Other then some sleazy emails and IMs and some nonsexual meetings, can anyone tell me if Foley ACTUALLY assaulted anyone? I haven't read or heard that he did.

So, what in the hell is the issue? Studdz can actually assault a page and that is OK. Foley sends some e-sleaze and you'd think he was caught with tens of thousands of bribe bucks in his freezer like a Louisiana Democrat!

Why are we letting the idiot moonbats control this?

Shut up and move on. Talk about something that actually is important.

VW

Proof positive that Osama a... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Proof positive that Osama and Saddam were not in cahoots.

If they were, the Bush Administration might have tried to stop Osama from attacking America.

Alas, they weren't so the Bush Administration blew-off the warnings.

Don't worry too much about it, nothing big came from OBL's threat anyway.

Democrats are very good at ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Democrats are very good at pointing in the wrong direction. They have no platform. All we heard from them is "we have a plan". Those of us who reached our majority a few years ago, know the democratic plan. Cut and run, rax and spend. Steal from the rich to buy votes from the poor. Nothing to solve poverty, because to solve poverty would eliminate their base of fooled voters. Someone needs to start a 12 step program for democrats called Idiots Anonymous. Lee and his cohorts here could be charter members.

Tax and spend. Darn those ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Tax and spend. Darn those typos. By the way, isn't Foley out of office and is not Jefferson still holding his seat? What double standard. Pelosi sould resign as Minority leader.

Can someone explain to me w... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

Can someone explain to me what else Speaker Hastert should investigate? Should he check and see if Barney Frank is boinking any more gay prostitues in his office? Should he look to see if any of the Kennedys are still getting intoxicated and driving - as if anyone needs to ask? MckInney is still in the House. Should he follow her around to ensure she doesn't strike any more guards? If any of them fall off the wagon, should Hastert accept responsibility and resign? Should Pelosi?

Those who are stating that Hastert should resign are using a logical fallacy, a sort of ex-post facto non-evidence after the appearance of incriminating evidence. The too-friendly e-mails were not enough evidence to look at all of a Congressperson's correspondence and had an innocent explanation. There was no crime or imppropriety alleged, just a discomfort by the recipient who didn't want to pursue the matter. There was nothing to pursue unless an investigation in search of a crime was launched.

You need some plausible belief that improprieties were occurring and a few too-friendly e-mails did not rise to that standard, as noted by the FBI and 2 liberal newspapers with the samee info.

The former aide who claims he told Hastert's office, a matter denied by said office, has a a lot of cotnradictions he has not cleared. He was both shocked by Foley's behavior and has known about it for years. He was repulsed enough to report it to the GOP leadership but not repulsed enough to quit working for the man. It doesn't add up. It seems to be CYA.

Although I think Hastert is an ineffective Speaker, I don't see any reason why he should resign due to the misconduct of another person when incriminating evidence was not available to him. This is a political witchhunt by unscrupulous and hyporctical Democrats.

CNN: PAGE LAWYER DOES NOT R... (Below threshold)
jp:

CNN: PAGE LAWYER DOES NOT RULE 'IN OR OUT' PRANK CLAIM... DEVELOPING... BLITZER: He will join us live in the next hour. What are you hearing, brian, about some of these internet suggesttions, some republicans suggesting this whole thing is a prank, a hoax and there is no there, there.

TODD: We asked him about that item in the report. He said very clearly he cannot rule that in, he cannot rule that out. He says he is not saying it was not a prank but later in the interview, cnn pressed him on that. He said that he -- he does not read the drudge report not part of his regular reading and, quote, it sounds like a piece of fiction...

BLITZER: He says the drudge report item sounds like a piece of fiction?

TODD: He did say that, but important to note he says he is not ruling it in or out.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An a... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An aide to top White House political adviser Karl Rove resigned in the fallout over a congressional report showing many White House contacts with ex-lobbyist Jack Abramoff, a spokeswoman said on Friday.

If we even needed to point-out more corruption by the Republican party. Let's put this one in our back pocket until after Hastert resigns.

Hey Barney,Can you... (Below threshold)

Hey Barney,

Can you tell me why Jefferson hasn't resigned and why Pelosi hasn't investigated him amd taken responsibility for him?

VW

This was good too: Brian... (Below threshold)
Brian:

This was good too: Brian brings up four Presidents who have had affairs. Three were Democrats. lol!

Yes, because I didn't think anyone would be so immature as to overlook the non-partisan nature of the history, and be giddy that my example had one more Democrat than Republican. My mistake.

Hey Barney FrankG2000- Can ... (Below threshold)
914:

Hey Barney FrankG2000- Can You explain to us why Pelosi and reid And all the other Democrat hypocrites have not resigned following Clintons numerous phillandering rape-a-thons or the Studds molestation or Jefferson or any other of a 100 corrupt Dem scandals??

Did not think so..

Can someone tell me why Rov... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

Can someone tell me why Rove has not resigned?

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An aide to top White House political adviser Karl Rove resigned on Friday in the fallout over a congressional report showing many White House contacts with ex-lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the aide, Susan Ralston, submitted her resignation after recognizing that "a protracted discussion of these matters would be a distraction to the White House."

Ralston chose to step down and "we support her decision and consider the matter closed," Perino said."

ya know,; belive it or not some of us out hear have followed Tom(cut-n-run)Delay and the Abramhoff thing for awhile...don't forget ABBY addressed the Republican National Convention as National President of the Young College Republicans...
By the way how is that Bush/Cheney/Republican Senate/House doing on that Iraq thing?

At what point in time wil some of the regulars here admit that maybe..just maybe our current situation is not the fault of Clinton or a biased Press?

Nogo,I'll explain ... (Below threshold)

Nogo,

I'll explain Rove if you can explain Jefferson. Also, please explain why Pelosi hasn't demanded he resign. Perhaps she is in on the take? Please, why do corrupt Democrats keep collecting a paycheck. We know Pelosi knows about him.

With Rove, if you have evidence that he is guilty of something, perhaps you need to share it with the FBI.

VW

Mentioning Clinton is just ... (Below threshold)
914:

Mentioning Clinton is just to point out the glaring hypocrisy nogo postal..

Its just about sex remember?

At least Foley had the sense to resign..

Lee, are you even living on... (Below threshold)

Lee, are you even living on this planet? You are seriously deluding yourself if you honestly people are going to vote for the donkeys over this issue. An issue where you democrats are now the gay-bashing "outers". How clever of you.

Most polls and people don't trust you on national security. And why would they? You're the heirs of that great national defense expert, Jimmy Carter. Why in the world would anyone trust you lefties anymore?

Boo Hoo, family value repub... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Boo Hoo, family value republicans wonder why they don't get a break when they are caught soliciting a minor and stealing money and selling your vote to the highest paying lobbyist? Hint, go back and read the contract with America!!

You Repubs brought this bit... (Below threshold)
mattyd:

You Repubs brought this bitch-slapping upon yourselves.

As George Will wrote yesterday...

"The problem with (Republicans) claiming to have cornered the market on virtue is that people will get snippy when they spot vice in your ranks"

And, I have to be honest, watching you all squirm, defend and prevaricate is hilarious.


That's what I thought Barne... (Below threshold)

That's what I thought Barney. You are so intellectually dishonest, you won't even address the Jefferson issue.

I would answer that we are the party of values and when one of ours is caught being dirty, we get rid of them. Unlike the party of NO values, where they still sit in Congress where they can keep on accepting bribes or molesting pages

You are a good little Democrat sycophant.

VW

Steve of Norway -- Read the... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Steve of Norway -- Read the Fox News survey just out regarding the impact of this issue on voters. You do trust Fox News, don't you?

I'd give you a link but you're too damned rude, and I'm perfectly happy if you remain stupid as well, so look it up yourself, nimrod.

...or don't, I don't care. You can go on doing what you're doing and thinking it won't effect votes - I'm ok with that, you putz! LOL!

Bush: "If we had any idea t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Bush: "If we had any idea that terrorist were planning on flying planes into our buildings, we would have moved heaven and hell to stop them".

Hastert: "If somebody had this info, when they had it, we could have dealt with it then."

Republicans need a building to fall on them before they do anything!

VW, I promise not to vote for Jefferson this November, or in any other election. Happy now?

Actually, I don't think it ... (Below threshold)

Actually, I don't think it will *affect* votes and why the hate? Well, childish hate that is...that the best you've got?

I don't understand????? I h... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I don't understand????? I have not met a single conservative (Republican) who has tried to make an excuse for Foley. Foley is gone - and he should be. Over/done. This is consistent with the conservative stance. It is lawful for a man's past behavior to be scrutinized when a woman tries to establish whether sexual harrasment is a pattern. Clinton lied when this line of questioning was put to him. He lied under oath. He should have been impeached. It was chosen not to try him in the Senate. Fine. These are two independent events that are unrelated to each other and as far as I am concerned the parties directly involved got what they deserved. Period. Get over it. Let's focus on something important for crying out loud.

This thread is a peach. Al... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

This thread is a peach. All these useless liberals gloating over something that is in the whole scheme of things insignificant.

It's like telling a man dying of terminal cancer that he's been cured of alcoholism, and the guy throws a party. The Dem. Party better get its act together because no Repub. faux scandal can cure it of what ails it.

Barney, you are so predicta... (Below threshold)

Barney, you are so predictable. You can't even say Jefferson should resign. I am laughing and I mean really laughing. You and your fellow moonbat nut jobs don't want to clean up corruption, you just want the power back. If you were honest (and you are not) you'd admit it.

VW

Peloshi, the voice of the d... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Peloshi, the voice of the democrats.

1. Awarded a child rapist (based on the democrats defination today) with a chairmanship. Of course he was a democrat that went unpunished for child rape, made fun of the house leadership, and was reelected by idiots.

2. Marched (3 steps behind) with the leader of the National (North) American Man Boy love Association (NAMBLA)in SF. Left to her there will be no age limit on boys raped by homosexuals. Is there one currently in SF? Doubtful.

3. Receives a 5 star rating from the communist organization (ACLU).

Yep, she's one great hero of the democrats.

"you just want the power ba... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"you just want the power back..."

Gee VW you are so perceptive. You're on to us. We never thought that any republican would be smart enough to figure it out. Yes, the Democrats want to be the majority party in the House, Senate and eventually the Whitehouse. Curse you VW for exposing our plan!!!!!

It really is pathetic! Aft... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

It really is pathetic! After the 2002 election the GOP had the Dems. on the ropes. The Democratic Party was on the verge of becoming a footnote, or as Bush likes to say "a comma", but nooooooooo. Bush and the GOP had to blow it by not only lying about Iraq, but by screwing the Iraqi pooch. Than you had Shiavo, Meyers, Katrina, deficit, immigration, Dubai, Rove, Abramoff and now Foley/Hastert.

Now, your best-case scenario is that both parties are even, and worst is that you will lose both houses, and Bush will be proven the fool.

How does that feel?

DaveD: "Foley is gone - ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

DaveD: "Foley is gone - and he should be. Over/done." He resigned -- the Republicans didn't kick him out. Let's get that lie behind us. Meanwhile Hastert, who was warned three years ago that Foley was out of control, is barely clinging onto his job. He should resign.

Mitchell: "This thread is a peach. All these useless liberals gloating over something that is in the whole scheme of things insignificant." Check out the latest Fox poll. You guys just lost the House and the Senate.

VW: "Barney, you are so predictable." VW-- I knew you'd say that.

Scrappy: Get help. Your DDS (Democrat Derangement Syndrome) is beyond the medications you're on now. Try something new - like Lithium.

I listened to a few minutes of Sean Hannity's radio show today. He had a caller who wanted to know what the Democrats were going to do now that they'd "thrown their Gay constituency under the bus."

Do you nutcakes really think that gay Democrats are going to vote for Republicans candidates because of this? Those same gay Democrats that have been told for the last several years that they are in bed with terrorists, and guilty of cut and run, because they dare call Georgie's war a mistake?

What are you guys smoking?

And whatever it is, gives some to Scrappy. Maybe it'll calm his shattered nerves.

Curse you VW for exposin... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Curse you VW for exposing our plan

Not to be snarky or anything, but is there a plan after that?

To be honest, I don't think it's that interesting about the current topics, but what is the plan (by either party) to correct this type of behavior going forward .. ...or is there really anything they can do?

Just to be clear ^, I'm not... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Just to be clear ^, I'm not really concerned with ongoing and/or persistent investigations or anything - but what do you do?

Hugh:It looks like... (Below threshold)
epador:

Hugh:

It looks like the Bull Chips are falling fast and furious here, eh?

Hey "pucker puss" (lee lee)... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey "pucker puss" (lee lee) you know who they ask in the socall surveys? People that can be led around like lemmings-ones that cannot even tell you who the VP is-ones that bitch if they have to walk to the mailbox to get their welfare check. People with any common sense can see right thru you poor old moonbat whimping about "morals". Who gives a shit what some fag says over the internet. All the one on the other end has to do is click off. If someone is old enough to train to be a page, they are old enough to know right from wrong and how to report it and get rid of the fag. But of coarse there are two kinds of fags-Demo fags and Rep fags. Rep fags get canned and Demo fags get reelected and pardoned. Ok everyone can jump my ass now.

Well Barney, not you, not H... (Below threshold)

Well Barney, not you, not Hugh, none of you, are really anti-corruption. You won't demand the resignation of your own corrupt officials.

If anyone votes Democrat just because of the Foley fuss, they are really too stupid to even be voting.

Not to be snarky or anyt... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Not to be snarky or anything, but is there a plan after that?

Well, at the very least we can start with the same plan that Bush had after invading Iraq: "Achieve Success". Surely those on the right don't suddenly need anything more specific than that.

Achieve Success... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Achieve Success

regarding... ...what, Brian?

Please don't marginalize Iraq to the level of the Foley scandal and what is to be done, if anything, about it going forward.

It happens to be a legitimate and on topic question.

Of course, emailing them... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Of course, emailing them and advising them to force Hastert out is a smarter move, but that's your decision -- and as a Democrat I'm perfectly ok with you not doing that.

In terms of sheer politics, it'd be wiser for him to stay on and utterly slander the accuser.

It works, remarkably well and consistently, for the Dems.

Boo Hoo, family value republicans wonder why they don't get a break when they are caught soliciting a minor and stealing money and selling your vote to the highest paying lobbyist? Hint, go back and read the contract with America!!

So, Dems OPPOSE family values?

I mean, with all of their massive ethical failings, your lack of condemnation of THEM makes sense only if they oppose it.

You don't see ANYBODY defending Foley. Nobody is giving him respect.

Studds got that. Frank got that. Reynolds got that. Jefferson still gets that. Reid still gets it.

VW, I promise not to vote for Jefferson this November, or in any other election. Happy now?

And the GOP promises not to vote for Foley.

Sounds like problem has been resolved.

The same party that opposes seizing terrorist communications and opposed, vigorously, when memos about the Dems plan to politicize the intelligence was made public are now insisting that the Congress seize somebody's IM's with no real justifiable reason for it.

Got it.
-=Mike

Hey "pucker puss" (lee l... (Below threshold)
azguy:

Hey "pucker puss" (lee lee)

Sorry, I have no idea what this means, but I just have to jump in and say how entertaining it is to see you keeping up with your pet name for Lee in post after post. It's fascinating to watch your obsession with him develop and grow. You would rather take a swipe at him than have anyone take anything you say seriously, which is very rare these days. And you're not at all concerned with projecting any kind of maturity. I'm impressed you have the tenacity to keep it up, long after anyone remembers why it is exactly that you're obsessed with him. Personally, I hope you can keep it going, as it's quite amusing. Also, it's good training for when you reach puberty and find something to really obsess about.

"So, Dems OPPOSE family val... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"So, Dems OPPOSE family values?" MikeSC

No, we are the party of sex and drugs and rock-n-roll, and we are kicking your missionary postion loving asses.

Excellent post Jay. Electi... (Below threshold)
Rovin:

Excellent post Jay. Elections this Nov will be local, which many here seemed to miss this point.

While this nation should be more concerned with what is going on in N Korea, Iraq, Iran, the left is busy throwing stones in their own glass domiciles.

Nastee Nancy has proclaimed that when she becomes the queen bee, she will pass a couple of hundred billion in entitlements (and then) put in a "pay as you go" bill. Wanna try the PAYG first Nance?

Oh, but wasn't Newt the first to do that?

She's already admitted she will be raising taxes, and will no doubt start impeachment proceedings against GW. By God, that will embolden them terrorist, but when did that left give a s**t about our national security? Isn't being in power more important?

Foley who?

"Your" last majority in a P... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

"Your" last majority in a Presidential election was...when?

"You" last won Congress via election...when?

The conservative v liberal "feud" is a feud in the same sense that the hammer and the nail have a feud.

I prefer my "ass-kickings" to lead to success, personally.

But that's just me.
-=Mike

Oh boy!! Now we got an inte... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Oh boy!! Now we got an intellectual nerd that posts by the name "azguy"(short for crazyguy?).Don't you just love it when some "intellectual" tells you whats wrong with you? Uhh if you don't like what I do I suggest you go elsewhere as this is not your blog. Until the owner says cool it you can stick it .(anywhere you like) Have a nice day!

regarding... ...what, Br... (Below threshold)
Brian:

regarding... ...what, Brian?

You know... making America better than it was before. Better, stronger, faster. Prosperity on the march. All that nebulous non-plan rhetoric that seems to be sufficient when it comes from Bush.

Please don't marginalize Iraq to the level of the Foley scandal and what is to be done, if anything, about it going forward.

It was your question I was responding to, and it wasn't about Foley. So don't make it go there, and it won't.

It happens to be a legitimate and on topic question.

If you're being genuine, and I'll take you at your word, then you can read all about it here. But I won't contribute here to a debate about which party's "plan for the future" rhetoric is more empty and nebulous. It's not this thread's topic, and it could fill a blog of its own.

I hate to do this but...</p... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

I hate to do this but...

BRIAN!

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE POST-"THE FOLEY FALLOUT" PLAN!

Hence, the "what is the plan (by either party) to correct this type of behavior going forward" comment.

I even said "Please" for shit's sakes.

Sorry, miss. Didn't mean to... (Below threshold)
azguy:

Sorry, miss. Didn't mean to offend.

"pucker pucker" crazyguy

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PO... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE POST-"THE FOLEY FALLOUT" PLAN!

The thread had gotten off-topic of Foley, and was:

>>>You and your fellow moonbat nut jobs don't want to clean up corruption, you just want the power back.
>>Curse you VW for exposing our plan
>Not to be snarky or anything, but is there a plan after that?

So the topic was the Dem's generic plan once in power again, not a plan about Foley.

Hence, the "what is the plan (by either party) to correct this type of behavior going forward" comment.

You didn't say "to correct this type of behavior" in your original question.

But since you asked... there is no meaningful plan, for either side, going forward. You can't weed perverts out of Congress. All you can do is respond to them when the warning signs present themselves. So I guess the "plan" is: be vigilant, be honest, and when someone tells you that there's inappropriate behavior among your ranks, think of the kids' well-being over politics, and don't sweep it under the rug.

I believe those points have been well-espoused by the Democratic leadership.

So the topic was the Dem... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

So the topic was the Dem's generic plan once in power again

Which is perhaps why in that link that you sent me, the bottom half of it is upside down and in Spanish.

..it's difficult to read that part of it that way, but then again, I don't know Spanish :)

The top half is a decent plan, I'd have to agree, but are the dems as a whole willing to put our money where their mouths are is the real question...

...otherwise, the upside down/Spanish plan sounds just as good as any generic plan so far.

Boy, you can say this again...

You can't weed perverts out of Congress

I suppose that it's like trying to get piss out of a swimming pool.

Why does anyone pretend the... (Below threshold)
Xennady:

Why does anyone pretend the Democrats care about anything Foley actually did and Hastert failed to dig up? Everyone knows Democrats have been faced with far worse scandals involving sexual misconduct and their response was...not a problem! If Foley was a Democrat and the GOP attempted to treat this the way Democrats have I can even imagine what folks like Brian and Lee would be saying-"Don't you Rethuglicans believe in innocent until proven guilty? Jesus! D*m fascists." and "What he did wasn't even illegal! Creepy homophobic bigots-get out of Foley's bedroom!" Until the GOP response to the Democrats never ending stream of fake scandals is to tell them to eff off,and then a quick recap of all the real Democrat scandals-you know, where people actually went to jail AND the Democratic party as a whole had no problem with their conduct-they won't make Democrats stop this BS.Since I'm sure Lee & co. have no memory of these,I'll name a few-Mel Reynolds,Barney Frank& and the gay whorehouse,the various Clinton scandals-don't forget about the jailbird governor of Arkansas,Willian Jefferson (probable jail time,no resignation forced by Dems),the East St. Louis vote fraud case,and the entire history of the New Jersey Democratic party.I won't even list all the corruption that didn't get someone sent up-endless vote fraud everywhere in the country,Bill Clinton himself,for exanple.Yet I missed all the Democratic outrage and demands for cleaner government.More often Democrats are outraged anyone less perfect than Jesus dares to critcize them.I can see why I would be unhappy by Foleys conduct but I can't see why Lee or Brian would even care.

Now we know why the Democra... (Below threshold)
bill:

Now we know why the Democrats didn't have a plan

Didn't need one, the surprise was in the can ....

Did it occur to you that the reason the Democrats didn't have a plan before is because they were waiting for the October surprise? Isn't it odd that less than a week after the 'surprise' that there is Cong Pelosi out there with her plan, banners flying high, and acting like she had it all figured out all along. Very convenient don't you think? Even more so if you assume she knew nothing about the surprise. I have no doubt it was a setup, and the DNCC is behind it all.

Neat huh ...

azguy: how about this nick... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

azguy: how about this nickname: "Assguy"?

Hee, hee.

I know, I'll get a reply: "Oh, Mitchell, SOOOO mature."

Look, if you had old Pucker Puss hovering over every post, posting such nonsense, when no one really cares what he says, you'd find a humorous way to toss him off, too.

These guys must think they are "saving" us from Herr BushhitlerDevil. In that way, they are no different than our wacky religious right fringe groups. Gotta laugh.

Which is perhaps why in ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Which is perhaps why in that link that you sent me, the bottom half of it is upside down and in Spanish.

Not sure what you mean here. I'd guess you have problems with your browser. If you're interested, you can read it here too.

Not sure what you mean h... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Not sure what you mean here. I'd guess you have problems with your browser. If you're interested, you can read it here too

Well, that link ( http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/20060329_realsecurity.pdf ) is a 10 page PDF file, which the last 5 are upside down and in Spanish - just a humourous observation is all.

Ah, I see. I didn't point y... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Ah, I see. I didn't point you to the PDF file originally, just the web page that showed the same text, so I didn't know what you were talking about. Presumably that PDF is meant to be printed as a double-sided pamphlet, with English on one side and Spanish on the other.

"Look, if you had old Pu... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Look, if you had old Pucker Puss hovering over every post, posting such nonsense, when no one really cares what he says, you'd find a humorous way to toss him off, too."

Lucky me. I get to state my views, and in doing so I get nutcakes like you, Mitchell (and jhow and Zelda, etc.) to look like the immature *ssholes you truly are.

Maybe Rove will offer me a job...




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