Damn those Bush tax cuts! They're destroying the "democrat" party...

(sarcasm off)

Huge public debt, massive trade imbalance, negative personal savings, increasing housing foreclosures, huge gap between rich and poor incomes/wealth....but its a BIG NUMBER ...What a nice house....lets build it higher with some more cards.

http://www.stock-market-crash.net/1929.htm

All Doom and Goom, all the time!

Thanks, muirgeo!

Not!

Meanwhile the poor and middle-class families in America continue to struggle and fall further behind.

The Republicans don't make any pretenses of trying to help. It's only tax cuts for the rich, and help and support for any lobbyist willing to pay the freight.

I'm middle class and my family has struggled through the years and is getting ahead... not behind.

Another middle-classer here... hard work and common sense has brought my family from lower-middle to middle class... without welfare handouts. It's called hard work, taking those jobs that others might turn their noses up at, and trying to find better jobs while working at the crappy ones. You go without luxuries (that people consider necessities)- no television, buying calling cards instead of regular long distance through the phone company, buying clothes at Goodwill, rolling up pennies, buying generic brand instead of name brand, buying at thrift stores, etc. No xbox, no ipods, etc. Liberals like to think doing it yourself is impossible, but it's not.

Obviously this must be a misprint. Harry Reid has said the economy is terrible. Unless of course one is involved in real estate.

Lee:

Your correct. It is only tax cuts for the rich, since the poor don't pay any taxes. One day you will figure out that when you continue to say only stupid things people will assume you are stupid. Even the worst of the Democratic pundits have quit beating the dead horse that you keep pounding on.

USMC Pilot,

Lee has been demonstrating his stupidity here for quite a while now. No one here needs to assume.

Gimme Gimme 12G Maan,
Gimme Gimme 12G Maan,
I wanna short the 12G Maaan!

(cue Joey's Maria Bartiromo)

Yuh know lee and the other twit, I starting working young doing jobs no American would want, picking fruit, cleaning latrines, detaslling corn, etc. 30 years later I am upper middle class and you class robbers want to steal my years of hard work so you can feel good about yourself. No thanks.

All Doom and Goom, all the time!

Thanks, muirgeo!

Not!

Posted by: Sheik Yur Bouty

Can't you guys ever comment with some substance?????

Tell me why we should rejoice over a stock market number in isolation and ignore the other factors?

It's not my doom and gloom that's the problem it's your unwillingness to consider the facts.

It is only a matter of time before the antique MSM attempts to tie their over-hyped Foley coverage and silly theories about Democrats taking both houses of congress to account for the recent string of stock market records. Some strange headlines may appear as this link is made such as: "DOW surges as investors react to prospect of Democratic mid-term victory".

I'm middle class and my family has struggled through the years and is getting ahead... not behind.

Posted by: A.J.

Well that settles it then....the middle class is doing just fine as long as they...."struggle"...

AJ you are one person and the steam roller of economic collapse that these guys have got us on could quickly turn to against yopu. eanwhile these super wealthy people who are screwing you over will have no problem weathering the storm because their incomes have gone up 300% compared to yours and THEY HAVEN'T WORKED one bit harder....they've simply controled the system to transfer wealth in their direction.....you believe what you want and just keep on struggling because it ain't gonna get any easier for you and your kids with these guys Robber Baron policies.

Some strange headlines may appear as this link is made such as: "DOW surges as investors react to prospect of Democratic mid-term victory".

Michael, it would take a twisted mind to consider investors running up the market in hopeful anticipation of higher capital gains taxes. In other words: you're right, we'll probably start seeing this in the press before long, along with the stories about how 'wealthy rupublican backers, fat and bloated with their tax handouts from the poor, are artificially inflating the market to make the economy look better than it is, after all, isn't inflation still at a staggeringly, unconscionably high 4.6%?'.

You misunderstand me. My family has struggled in the past. We're doing fine now. It's not a struggle anymore. Yes, working hard to get from poor to comfortable is a struggle. Read what David commented. A lot of us middle-classers feel the same way he does. And we're tired of people like you saying it HAS to ALWAYS be a struggle, saying middle class life is terrible, how we're being sucked dry and dragged down. It's a lie, and I'm tired of people blindly labelling to support their agenda.

@ muirgeo

...it's your unwillingness to consider the facts.

That's rich. Why attempt to argue economics with a lib. They all think welfare and retreat can keep him warm and safe? I say, I say, you're a jackass, boy! Now go away. The big roaster has a job to do.

I think libs are just jealous of people who have worked to achieve their wealth. Why should someone who has worked and had their investments pay off handsomely have to be penalized? This country is great because we're able to forge our own destinies. I should not be forced to have my wealth taken and given to people who won't work, who are lazy and ignorant. The system we have now sucks, because it's so easily abused. I know a guy with three kids by two moms, who is THRILLED because he's getting housing, food stamps, hundreds of dollars a month, heating assistance, etc. He brags about getting to live off the system instead of having to work- he says he hates to work (he hasn't held a job for longer than two weeks in YEARS, literally). He'd much rather stay up all night playing Halo 2 on his X-Box. THIS is the problem with society, not free enterprise.

It is only tax cuts for the rich, since the poor don't pay any taxes. One day you will figure out that when you continue to say only stupid things people will assume you are stupid."

USMC Pilot, I humor you and your attacks, usually just ignoring your stupid remarks, but that takes the cake.

FYI - Their used to be (and many think still is) a lower-middle class and a middle class and an upper middle class in America that don't benefit from the capital gains tax cuts - or has the Republian party just written off anyone with an income of under $200,000 a year?

Lee, Muirgeo, others who have posted conveying their dislike of the current economic system... please humor me- I wondered if you could tell me what you'd change to make the system work the way you think it should? And what would the end result of it be? Asking this sincerely, I promise. Thanks very much.

Muirego, what was the purpose of that link? What you have so aptly demonstrated is that you are no student of financial history, at least as it applies to this country. When was the last time you could buy stocks on a 90% margine? I think the difference between now and then is lost on you. As a matter of fact, many things are lost on you and your sisters, Lee, Brian, Hugh and Barney. Things like honesty, truth, intellect, intelligence, facts, faith, and reailty.

Muirgeo and Lee evidently live a sheltered life. I live in small town America (all small towns), I see hundreds of new homes going up on ever plot of land available, new vehicles in every driveway (not one buy several per home) and everyone I know is working. I do not honestly know one person that is losing their home (I see a few in the paper where people bit off more than they can chew, or drug dealers getting caught and the law selling their homes) or anyone that is looking for a job unless they are looking for a specific job (never going to get it in the area) and won't accept anything else.

I do hear Peloshi (a multi-millionaire) screaming she will do away with the tax cuts for the rich. Give me a break, my tax cut (and it was a good one) will disappear long before Peloshi and that bunch of criminals lose a dime of theirs. Anyone with a brain knows the rich will never take away from the rich.

The Poor and the middle class has shrunk because more and more people moved up, not down.

I've been clearing some large trees around my home and may as well sit and talk to one of the stumps as talk to a brain dead democrat when he leaves his $250,000 home and pulls up in my driveway in his $45,000 diesel truck, drinking Bud and complaining about hard times. Calling them brain dead is being polite.

Time to paint my 4 X 8 signs and mount in my truck telling the public to look out, Peloshi is going to take away every gain (high paying job, tax cuts, investments, etc) they've made in the past six years (a lot) and put them back on unemployment.

The rich democrats just can't stand to see the average person get ahead so they will drive them down again.

Laney,

Thanks good question.

First...we need to make lobbying basically illegal. An indirect passage of money from a Corporation to a lobbyist to a politician IS NOT free speech....its bribery and influence peddling.

We need single payer health care. We are the only developed nation with out it. We pay over $10,000 a year for health insurance and other countries pay $5,000 and have better outcomes.

We need to drop the rate on social security to 3% and get rid of the cap. This along with rolling the VA medical system, meducare and medicaid together will pay for a single payer system.

We need to walk away from GATT, NAFTA and the WTO. Ross Perot was absolutly right. The big sucking sound is happening...our jobs and money are all going overseas never again to be invested in our country and its people.

Tariffs need to be re-instituted.

Unions need to be empowered not weekened.

Eductation has to be prime. We need to invest much more in education. Head Start, day care and and work training programs properly done repay society much more then we invest. College loans need to be easier and college costs need to be less.

Taxes on the wealthy need to be returned to at least the Clinton era rates.

We can discuss from here...I have to go back to work.

But before you disparage my ideas think back to the last time we had policies like now that you advocate and how it ended up in the Great Depression...then remember how FDR instituted policies as I mention and the middle class worker saw his income and security rise substantially.

Next look at all the other third world countries and all the democracies of Europe and the world and ask which have polcies that resemble the republicans and which have policies that resemble what I and many progressives advocate.

Why is Mexico and Colombia like they are and why is Sweden and canada as they are?

OK let's see if there are any neocons capable of honest intellectual debate...otherwise let the name calling being.

Remember, the liberal definition of 'rich' is anyone who has more than you do. They have no clear definition of who is 'rich', so they can go and play the class warfare game.

If they talk to a bunch of hamburger flippers, the 'rich' are those who own their own home.

When they talk to clerical staffers, the 'rich' are those who own an SUV and have fully vested 401Ks.

When they talk to middle management types, the 'rich' are those who get stock options.

When they talk to professionals like doctors and lawyers, the 'rich' are those who are CEOs of corporations.

It goes on and on. As long as their is a group who does better than another, the Dems will always point to the 'rich'.

To the Dems, anyone who has a dime left to tax is "rich."

We need to walk away from GATT, NAFTA and the WTO. Ross Perot was absolutly right. The big sucking sound is happening...our jobs and money are all going overseas never again to be invested in our country and its people.

Hmmm. Then why is our unemployment half that of Western Europe's, with its much more protected economies?

Goodbye to 11,000..Hello 12,000.. Darn it BUSH KNOCK IT OFF!! I wanna give all My new found profits to Peloshi and Gried and the rest of the Demoncratic multi-billionaire party..heehee No way bitchasses!!!

Thank you Muirgeo, I'll probably have more questions later on about a couple of your points. I appreciate you taking the time to post back to me.

Muirego is there some part of the failed communist system you could not ingest? Muirego, I do not see people that live in capitalistic countries as sucessful as this one moving to socialist countries. This country has the greatest economy in the world, and you want to change it. No nation on earth with a population equal to ours lives anywhere near as well as we do, inspite of what you might read in the newspaper of your choice. Only an idiot denies the truth when it stands in front of him, and Muirego, you are an idiot.

Laney,

Good I look forward to some serious discussion. Hard to find around here.....see the replies I got already about how I define rich...those people aren't interested in other view points or serious discussion.

I think I asked some good question and made some good points about different political economies and different economies in other countries. Lets ee if any one can answer them.

The rich would roughly be those making over $300,000 / year and the Super rich would be those with incomes of over $1,000,000 per year.

Hmmm. Then why is our unemployment half that of Western Europe's, with its much more protected economies?

Posted by: JohnAnnArbor

I think they calculate the numbers different. In Europe if you are out of work you count as unemployed. Here you only count if you are activly looking for work.

Europeans take far more time off, retire younger, live longer and never have to be worried about health insurance even when without a job.

Now you tell me about unemploymwent rates in Mexico and other third world countries that have economies like you want to set up here.

And I mean that. Tell me why you wouldn't want to live in Mexico or Columbia....they have minimal taxes, no regulation and illegal abortion along with concentrated wealth a small middle class and a huge underclass and an elitist single party rule.

Muirego is there some part of the failed communist system you could not ingest? Muirego, I do not see people that live in capitalistic countries as sucessful as this one moving to socialist countries. This country has the greatest economy in the world, and you want to change it. No nation on earth with a population equal to ours lives anywhere near as well as we do, inspite of what you might read in the newspaper of your choice. Only an idiot denies the truth when it stands in front of him, and Muirego, you are an idiot.

Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft

Here we go again!!! Zeldorf name calling and setting up Straw man arguements. I'm not talking about communism. I'm talking abouit a democratic system. If anything the question to you should be what part of failed fascism governemnts don't you understand? Your support for this administration makes you far more of a fascist then I am a communist.

Were we a great country in the 50's and 60s after 30 years of FDR's policies??? Are we better now after 25 years of Reagan policies?

Here you go Zeldorf this is what your pulling for.

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

Muirego, I see you are not only and idiot, you are a liar as well. I am not calling you names, I am describing you. If I called you a moonbat I would be calling you a name. Many of FDR's programs violated the U.S. Constitution, as it was written. Social Security is surely not the job of the Government as envisioned by the framers. Neither is socialized medicine, welfare or income tax, for that matter. Muirego, you believe in government, I do not. You democratic idiots want to throw my money at every problem that comes along. Let me see. Under FDR's sucesssful dealing with Joseph Stalin, millions in easter Europe suffered and died. Because of actions of the Reagan Administration, the Soviet Union is not on the ashheap of history. Rooseveldt was a democrat who turned the party toward socialism, Reagan was once a democrat, through enlightenment became the greatest American President of out time. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

Muirego, I see you are not only and idiot, you are a liar as well. I am not calling you names, I am describing you. If I called you a moonbat I would be calling you a name. Many of FDR's programs violated the U.S. Constitution, as it was written. Social Security is surely not the job of the Government as envisioned by the framers. Neither is socialized medicine, welfare or income tax, for that matter. Muirego, you believe in government, I do not. You democratic idiots want to throw my money at every problem that comes along. Let me see. Under FDR's sucesssful dealing with Joseph Stalin, millions in easter Europe suffered and died. Because of actions of the Reagan Administration, the Soviet Union is not on the ashheap of history. Rooseveldt was a democrat who turned the party toward socialism, Reagan was once a democrat, through enlightenment became the greatest American President of out time. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

Sorry for the double entry.

Muirego do you really want to compare the US economy to the EU economy?

Population Below the Poverty Line:
EU: 17%
US: 12%

Inflation:
EU: 2.1%
US: 3.2%

GDP:
EU: 12T
US: 12T

Real GDP:
EU: 1.5%
US: 3.0%

GDP per Capita:
EU: $26,900
US: $41,800

Unemployment:
EU: 9.1%
US: 4.6%

Europe lags behind the US in almost all categories. Read this.

EU birth rates are declining and so is the population, whereas US birth rates are growing and so is the US population.

Read this and this

I've lived in Europe and the U.S. Have you lived in both? I can tell you from personal experience that Europeans have a much lower standard of living than Americans. They live in smaller houses, drive smaller cars, and I always thought their food products were of much lower quality.

I certainly wouldn't want the same kind of health care they have in the EU.

Anecdotally, my neighbor is Welsh. She had to have a front tooth replaced when she was in the UK and what they did was extract one of her wisdom teeth and reshape it to be her front tooth. It looked horrible. When she got to the U.S. she had it corrected.

She has lived all over Europe and has nothing but praise for the U.S. healthcare system compared to the European healthcare system. It may be free for everybody, but you get what you pay for too.

As for unions, I have worked in Union shops and non Union shops. Every union shop I've ever worked the unions were corrupt and productivity was horrible. All of the non-union shops I've ever worked were better run, people made more money and had better working conditions. Go figure.