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Compare and contrast

Former Representative Mark Foley (R-FL) was caught sending salacious instant messages to a former Congressional page. He resigned on the spot, and to this day has yet to have a single person come forward and defend his actions.

Current Representative William Jefferson Clinton (D-LA) is under investigation for bribery by the FBI, and his staunch refusal to cooperate with them led to a miniature Constitutional crisis when he tried to assert Congressional immunity and protect his office from a search. He also shanghaied a National Guard unit during the Katrina flooding to rescue a safe from his home.

Jefferson is currently running for re-election, with the endorsement of New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has been wracked by financial and corruption scandals. The latest is a land deal that netted him over a million dollars, one that he "neglected" to list on required financial-disclosure reports. There have been -- to the best of my knowledge -- NO calls for his resignation by any of his fellow Democrats.

It appears that scumbags are pretty evenly distributed, but one side seems a bit better at getting rid of them (Foley, Duke Cunningham)-- while the other tends to pooh-pooh their peccadilloes (Mel Reynolds and Sandy Berger, just to name two) and go blithely on with life.

The Democrats tend to talk a lot about "the culture of corruption." Maybe their expertise is based on keeping the corrupt ones around, so they can study them better.



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Comments (59)

Uh Oh, here comes the cogni... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Uh Oh, here comes the cognitave dissonance crowd...

This Dem says get rid of th... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

This Dem says get rid of the Sem bad boys too.

One little correction because I know you want the facts to be correct. Foley has not resigned. In fact he pled guilty today and still has not resigned. Just want the facts to be right as I'm sure you do too Jay.

oooops.. big boo boo<... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

oooops.. big boo boo

I mean't Ney of course

Mr. Foley was simply conduc... (Below threshold)
Ramesh:

Mr. Foley was simply conducting a classified, undercover national security program to detect and expose the young Democrat gay pages who had infiltrated the heterosexual Republican grooming system.

How does this fit with smug... (Below threshold)
hugh:

How does this fit with smug moral superiority many of you rigties love to display? One of the traits that makes you so much fun to chat with.

From Yahoo.news:

"Despite his guilty pleas, Ney did not resign his seat in Congress. His lawyer, Mark Touchey, told the judge he would do so before sentencing on Jan. 19. Under the Constitution, he'll be gone before then. His term expires when the new Congress is sworn in at noon on Jan. 3."


What's the old admonition? He who lives in a glass house...." Is there "moral" outrage on your part that he continues to be paid by you?

How many times did Hastert ... (Below threshold)
Desi:

How many times did Hastert change house ethics laws to keep Delay in office?

Yep, cognitive dissonance H... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Yep, cognitive dissonance Hugh showed up. Where the hell is Lee? He's usually first to post if it's a Repub. scandal.

At least we get rid of our garbage. The Dems. promote theirs: Studds got a chairmanship after he got caught.

Ms Pelosi voted for the Studds chairmanship.

Woo Hoo, Dems. You got some real winners there.

The Dems have been outed, s... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

The Dems have been outed, so to speak! Cliff Kincaid, of Accuracy in Media has discovered the true diabolical nature of the Cocktober surprise. This was no accident, but a conspiracy in the making covering several years:

"If you are getting the idea that gay Republicans may be closeted Democrats, then you are beginning to understand how the Mark Foley scandal could have been a Democratic Party dirty trick."

"Where the hell is Lee?"</p... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

"Where the hell is Lee?"

Probably dumpster-diving for cans and bottles...a fundraising effort to stave off bankruptcy for AirAmerica.

How many times did Haste... (Below threshold)

How many times did Hastert change house ethics laws to keep Delay in office?

None. Complaints led them to drop the idea of lining up Republican caucus rules with the lower standard of the Democratic caucus.

"It appears that scumbag... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"It appears that scumbags are pretty evenly distributed,"

Nope, the Republcians have a clear lead in that matter, and everyone knows it.

Individuals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. No Democrat will argue with that.

Scumbags who protect these individuals should resign. That includes Hastert, and whoever in the Republican leadership that is uilty of the same crime. Here the Republicans and Democrtats part ways.

The Republicans wanted to cover up Hastert's mistakes. The ethics committee investigation will insure that doesn't happen. Hastert lied to the American people.

Yammer all you want, Republicans, but every day we see more and more about what the Republicans knew about Foley, and what they did to hide it from everyone.

Here's a better comparison.... (Below threshold)

Here's a better comparison...

Former Congressman Mel Reynolds actually went out and raped a 16 year-old campaign volunteer.

Not IMed. Not chatted with. Raped. Big-R raped.

12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography.

You know, asking for "special" photos of a minor.

Then he got nailed for bank fraud, but was pardoned by Bill Clinton. That's right - pardoned.

And now... he works for Jesse Jackson's organization. Because Jesse really, really needs folks experienced in bank fraud. Can't get enough of them, since his former fraud-partner and half-brother Noah's still in the pokey.

Now Mel's run for his old seat in 2004 against Jesse's son could be one of two things... a lack of gratitude for his new master, or jockeying for a bigger cut of Jesse's shakedown pie.

"The latest is a land deal ... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"The latest is a land deal that netted him over a million dollars, one that he "neglected" to list on required financial-disclosure reports."

Lie or error. Which one? The facts: He neglected to report that he transfered ownership to an LLC. He reported the land.

Come now Jay Tea - I thought you were a reader.

That being said - if Reid is convicted of a serious crime regarding his failure to disclose anything - he should resign. So should any politician convicted.

Het DesiWhat in th... (Below threshold)
914:

Het Desi

What in the hell did Tom Delay do that was unethical?

He only beat the dems like a red headed stepchild..

Now thats ethical.

Add another Republican to t... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Add another Republican to the Hall of Shame.

WASHINGTON - Rep. Bob Ney (news, bio, voting record) pleaded guilty Friday in the Jack Abramoff influence-peddling investigation, the first lawmaker to confess to crimes in an election-year scandal that has stained the Republican-controlled Congress and the Bush administration.

Standing before Judge Ellen S. Huvelle, Ney pleaded guilty to conspiracy and making false statements. He acknowledged taking money, gifts and favors in return for official actions on behalf of Abramoff and his clients.

Ney did not immediately resign from Congress, and within minutes, Republican and Democratic leaders vowed to expel him unless he steps down.

When the Republicans finish "cleaning house" the House won't have any Republicans....

jp2,I see. So now... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

jp2,

I see. So now 'convicted' is the standard? So, then we can reinstate Delay and Foley?

Lee,The difference... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Lee,

The difference is that Republicans 'clean house' and DemocRATS never do. You just leave all your dirtly laundry in office.

If there is even the suspic... (Below threshold)
914:

If there is even the suspicion He should resign jp2. Thats the way it works. at least for Repubs..Goodbye Reid.

Nary a comment about Repres... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Nary a comment about Representative Ney staying on the payroll after admitting he committed felonies. Nary a comment since he actually pled guilty today and he lawyers said he wasn't going to resign.


As Mr. O'Reilly, the folk hero of many of you, would say: "what say you.?"

Oh what it must feel like to be so smugly sure you are morally superior to Dems.

You're right - I should hav... (Below threshold)
jp2:

You're right - I should have said indicted.

Also, I think flirting with underage boys was pretty much resignable material and didn't need to be said - but you have your standards and I have mine.

Avoided the important part of my comment, btw.

They aren't sure of anythin... (Below threshold)
Lee:

They aren't sure of anything these days, Hugh. Ney is just another kick in the groin.

Poor widdle bad-ass, big talking Republicans bulls are licking themselves over the wounds they've received the last few weeks.

Eventually they'll find their balance -- probably around November 15.

Or how about Murtha and Ab-... (Below threshold)
Big D:

Or how about Murtha and Ab-scam? Only thing that saved him was deciding to take the money later rather than immediate payment.

Need I mention Kennedy? Which one? Or perhaps Byrd's association with the KKK? Ah, well. youthful indiscretions.

Funny how you forget to even mention Clinton. Lewis Libby lies to a grand jury about a non-crime and gets indicted, while Clinton lies to a grand jury and comes off as a hero. Hmmmmm...sex with a younger person working for him? Isan't that supposed to be profoundly...wrong?

Oh yeah, and where are the calls for Armitage (the actual leaker in the Plame case) to be indicted? Oh right, he doesn't like Bush so everything is fine.

Sandy Burger stealing documents from the national archives to destroy at home. Yeah, nothing fishy there. Maybe just a fine will do.

Let's lay our cards out. What irks Dems to no end is hypocrisy. Republicans claim to stand for moral behavior, therefore, any infraction must have swift an unlimited justice. Democrats, on the other, stand for nothing, so why should they be punished for their immoral behavior?

None. Complaints led the... (Below threshold)
Brian:

None. Complaints led them to drop the idea

Wrong. They changed the rule, then changed it back.

Foley has not resigned. ... (Below threshold)

Foley has not resigned. In fact he pled guilty today and still has not resigned.

Foley submitted his letter of resignation on September 29th, 2006. His name will still be on the ballot in Florida, although Joe Negron is actually running for his old seat.

JP2, so what you are saying... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

JP2, so what you are saying is Democrats get to wait until they are tried and convicted before there are any consquences of their acts, whereas Republicans must step down upon accusation. That is very democratic of you.

The latest is a land dea... (Below threshold)
Brian:

The latest is a land deal that netted him over a million dollars

Please, tell us what's wrong with making a profit on an investment. Many Reps and Dems alike have made a lot of money in the last 10 years on stock and land appreciation. What's wrong with that, Jay? Huh?

The difference is that the Reps currently in or about to be in prison made their money in exchange for political favors. Otherwise known as "bribes". Did Reid do that?

one that he "neglected" to list on required financial-disclosure reports.

An outright lie. He reported ownership. He reported the sale. He paid the taxes. What he didn't report was that the land was held in an LLC instead of directly. A violation of accounting rules, perhaps. One that the Republican-run IRS characterized as trivial. Where's the ethics violation?

I wonder if Jay Tea will co... (Below threshold)
jp2:

I wonder if Jay Tea will correct his glaring error or lie - isn't anyone else bothered by this?

People keep bringing up Ney... (Below threshold)
That Hoosier Gal:

People keep bringing up Ney, as though it points to a Republican culture of corruption and a Democrat party that's as pure as the driven snow. I'm glad Ney was caught and is facing consequences for his criminal actions. At least he pleaded guilty when confronted with his crimes. The truth stands: Republicans oust and condemn their own criminals and perverts. Democrats defend, justify, promote and lionize theirs.

"JP2, so what you are sayin... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"JP2, so what you are saying is Democrats get to wait until they are tried and convicted"

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III - You need to look up how our legal system works before you spew. An indictment is a precursor to both a trial and conviction.

Seriously, that's bad.

Lee knows his party is full... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Lee knows his party is full of scumbags. If Nancy Pelosi "drains the swamp" she'll take so many of her fellow dems that she wouldn't be speaker anymore.

There is clearly a double s... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

There is clearly a double standard. Any thinking person can see that. The fact that the members of the fabricated reality based community who frequently post here (Lee, Hugh, et. al.) fail to acknowledge that and instead try to change the subject only further diminishes their credibility (not that they had any in the first place...).

Speaking of scumbags and co... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Speaking of scumbags and corruption, which party is out there right now working hard on getting felons the right to vote?

Ahhhh yes. The party that knows most criminals vote democrat.

LOL.

Ahhhh yes. The party tha... (Below threshold)
914:

Ahhhh yes. The party that knows most criminals vote democrat.

Especially if they are enticed with an 8 ball or bottle of ripple.

At least [Ney] pleaded g... (Below threshold)
Brian:

At least [Ney] pleaded guilty when confronted with his crimes. The truth stands: Republicans oust and condemn their own criminals

So many falsehoods; so little time.

This doesn't prove that the Dems are "pure as driven snow". But it does prove that your statements are fantasy.

Nice links Brian...<p... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Nice links Brian...

The Republicans gave Ney a chance to resign, he didn't but should, so....

Try this

Haven't seen the Democrats do this to ANYBODY.

Well, that's because haven'... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Well, that's because haven't been any convicted Dems in Congress who have refused to resign. Is that supposed to be a point of honor for Reps?

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III - ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III - You need to look up how our legal system works before you spew. An indictment is a precursor to both a trial and conviction.

So, every indictment leads to a conviction, eh?

Interesting legal acumen ya got there.
-=Mike

JP1 you show your ignorance... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

JP1 you show your ignorance again and again. Have your mommie spend her crack money to buy you a dictionary. An "indictment" to charge with an offence. Not all indictments lead to trials or convictions. Only in the mind of a drug addled (thrown into confusion) idiot could such a conclusion be reached. You are obviouly confused JP0 because you think you know something, and that is not shinola, it is shit.

Well, that's because haven'... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Well, that's because haven't been any convicted Dems in Congress who have refused to resign. Is that supposed to be a point of honor for Reps?
-------------------------------------------------
No, the reps are at least following the norm of getting rid of the bad apples when they are known.
That 's the least they can do (no honor in it). The Dems cannot even do that. So it simply means that the Dems are in the sewage wrt ethics. And we should be intellectually honest enough to admit that.

At least that is a reason to vote for Reps. It is easier to clean them up than the dems.

1.) Zeldorf - I mentioned t... (Below threshold)
jp2:

1.) Zeldorf - I mentioned that I would like to see anyone indicted step down from their position.

2.) You then stated:

"what you are saying is Democrats get to wait until they are tried and convicted"

That is 100% wrong and I can't spell it out any easier. Instead of admitting you didn't know what an indictment was, you call me a crack smoker. Any further coorespondence with you will be ignored.

Also, still no comment at all from anyone about the lie in this article. Nada - Jay, I challenge you on your merits and you shriek down. Note that earlier today you called me a coward for "not attacking your arguments." (I know, it doesn't make sense to criticize someone for being insulting while at the same time calling them a coward - but hey, it's Wizbang)

Anyways - are you going to correct this or what?

the reps are at least fo... (Below threshold)
Brian:

the reps are at least following the norm of getting rid of the bad apples when they are known.

No, they're not. Evidence of that has been posted here over and over. I can't help you if you just want to keep repeating the falsehood. The fact is that only one party has a convicted felon currently sitting in office.

Sooooo.....Bob Ney pleads g... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Sooooo.....Bob Ney pleads guilty to multiple felonies today. Has not resigned from Congress and doesn't intend to. Going to stay till his term is up to collect our money.

How does that fit with you self-righteous, smug, holier-than-thou, "we are the moral folks" righties?

Haven't heard a peep yet today. Posted this info twice. Now 3 times. You can hear a pin drop on this one.

I have to give credit to t... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I have to give credit to the Republicans -- when it comes to cleaning up their messes they do in fact do a better job than the Democrats. The Dems will rally round and support their own, while the Republicans will oust one of their own more readily than the Democrats.

There are notable exceptions - DeLay went kicking and screaming - Hastert is resisting - and Nixon had to be shoved out the door, to name a few.

At least that is a reaso... (Below threshold)
Brian:

At least that is a reason to vote for Reps. It is easier to clean them up than the dems.

That's a real great party platform:

Vote Republican. We may have more criminals, but we get rid of them faster.*

* Applies only to convicted felons. Time period for resignation depends on the current political environment, and is not guaranteed. Offer does not apply to allegations, investigations, and indictments, which are not evidence of wrong-doing and should not be punished. Except for Democrats.

New slogan for the dems: "W... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

New slogan for the dems: "We stand behind our criminals--you should, too!"

Good one nikkolai.. Or: We ... (Below threshold)
914:

Good one nikkolai.. Or: We will vote for our cons over and over!

VOTE Richard Jeffferson Dem... (Below threshold)
914:

VOTE Richard Jeffferson Democrat Arkansas! His rapsheet of experience is unrivaled in Congress..

The silence continues. Oh w... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

The silence continues. Oh where, oh where have the self-righetous gone? Why are they silent?

Bob Ney deserve condemnatio... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Bob Ney deserve condemnation and should resign from Congress immediately.

Why do you continue to support the sewage standard of the Dems? When will you get rid of Harry Reid?

All you have is the cheap moral equivalency: America values democracy, but there are stalinist env extremists and terrorist-apologizing press. So America is no different from Iran, North Korea and the terrorists. THere are bad apples in the US army, so the US military is like the Nazi?

You have to be intellectually honest to admit that the Dems has a sewage ethical standard and a despicable moral equivalency.

Hugh, Livingstone,... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Hugh,
Livingstone, Delay, Foley, etc ... had to resign. When will Harry Reid resign?

Just one example: if you are intellectually honest enough to admit that the dems don't care about ethical standards, then you have a point.

Let me explain to you slowl... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Let me explain to you slowly:
- Rep got rid of their bad apples 90% of the time. The Dems got rid of their bad apples 0% of the time. In fact, they even celebrated their bad apples).

All you have left is the perfection argument. If the Reps are not perfect, then they are as bad as the Dems. This is an intellectually dishonest and what I call "perfection fallacy": America is not perfect, NOrth Korea is not perfect. So America is the same as North Korea.

If you complain loudly about the ethics of the Reps, then you must be intellectually honest enough to admit that the Dems have no ethical standard.

Haven't heard a peep ye... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Haven't heard a peep yet today. Posted this info twice. Now 3 times. You can hear a pin drop on this one.
Posted by: Hugh at October 13, 2006 03:46 PM

Fall down and hit your head Hugh?

And to end your constanty whining about Ney, he should be run out of twon on a rail.

Happy now? Go find something else to whine about.

JP... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

JP

Hey "pucker puss" (lee lee)... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey "pucker puss" (lee lee) whose ass are you trying to kiss?

There's only one of you wit... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

There's only one of you with a modicum, and I say just a modicum, of balls to repond honestly about Ney.

Harry Reid? Last time I checked he wasn't indicted or convicted of anything. I guess some of you wingnut loons don't want us to have a Constitution, but we do.

Now you can smugly preach to us about your moral superiority.

Harry Reid? Last time I che... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Harry Reid? Last time I checked he wasn't indicted or convicted of anything. I guess some of you wingnut loons don't want us to have a Constitution, but we do.
--------------------------------------------------
When will you call for Harry Reid 's resignation? Hastert wasn't convicted of any crime. Why did the liberals call for his resignation.

Hugh, are you intellectually honest enough to admit that the Dems have no ethical standard?

If you complain about the ethics of the Reps, then you have to do the intellectually honest thing: you haven't shown one fact to show that the Dems are not in the sewage wrt ethics.


Oops, btw Clinton admitted ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Oops, btw Clinton admitted lying under oath. Why didn't he resign? You guys cannot be simply intellectually honest. If you want to support the Dems, it is your right, but you should be honest enough to admit that you don't care about ethics or women or children at all.

LoveAmericaYou can... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

LoveAmerica

You can be sure that one of the few things I care about is what you have to say and your silly Hannity-like cross examination questions.

Hugh, Thanks for ad... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Hugh,
Thanks for admitting that you have no answers to my args and my facts. What can you do when you cannot be intellectually honest but to ignore the truth?




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