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The donkey's paw

One of the great recurring themes in literature and entertainment is the consequences of getting your fondest desire. In the classic tale "The Monkey's Paw," a couple is granted three wishes -- but each comes with a terrible price. The law of unintended consequences is pretty much insurmountable, and the old saying "be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it" is very sound advice.

Right now, the Democrats seem to have a solid -- but narrow -- majority in the House of Representatives, and a good shot at taking the Senate. They'be been saying that if they could just get the votes, they'd be able to solve a lot of our problems.

Well, now they've got their chance. Let's see what they've got.

Of course, they don't have a solid lock on power. Their majority in the House is very narrow, and will be even tighter in the Senate, even if they take the last two undecided seats. Plus President Bush might find just where the Clinton administration hid the "VETO" stamp (I suspect it ended up with the "W"s from White House computer keyboards) and start using it.

But it will be interesting to see them try. To see what they will push for, what they will propose, what their answers will be. They will have to remember that the Republicans not only have the votes to sustain presidential vetoes, but will be able to filibuster and toss up all the legislative log jams the Democrats have been using for the last 12 years.

So, where will they go from here?

I see two ways. The first is to move forward, to accept the way things are and work to change and improve them. To find solutions that will have appeal across party lines and actually might stand a chance of passing.

The alternative I see is the way I fear things will go, the way that the omens and augurs portend: to try to erase as much of the last six years as they can. To undo the actions, decisions, and policies since the beginning of the Bush administration.

Bush's tax cuts? Get rid of 'em.

Invasion of Iraq? Get the hell out as soon as possible.

Bush's very elections? Impeach him.

It's fantasy. The moving hand hath writ, and no matter how much the Democrats wish and hope and try, they can't unwrite history.

Fantasy is nice. It's comforting. It's warm and fuzzy. But it's downright dangerous as political policy.

There's one bright side out of all this, however. For at least the foreseeable future, I ought to have a plethora of material to blog about. Just like George W. Bush's election was a huge boon to late night comics and the best thing that could have happened to Stephen Colbert, a House of Representatives headed up by Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, Alcee Hastings, Charles Rangel, and their ilk promises to be a huge blessing to bloggers.

And if all else fails, I can just take this piece I wrote about a year and a half ago and update it. It has a certain timeless appeal.

One thing is guaranteed: it won't be dull.


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» America's North Shore Journal linked with 2006 Vote Status Quo

» Pirate's Cove linked with WTW: Dems Win The House, Maybe Senate

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Comments (76)

Lets celebrate, free aborti... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Lets celebrate, free abortions for everyone (even the guys).

Bush's tax cu... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Bush's tax cuts? Get rid of 'em.

Invasion of Iraq? Get the hell out as soon as possible.

Bush's very elections? Impeach him.

Donkey's paw? You should rename this "Elephant's ass" instead.

Bush tax cuts - will be reapportioned so that middle class America gets a tax cut a the expense of the rich.

The quagmire in Iraq - it'll be hard road ahead to solve the problems created by Bush and company, but getting rid of Rumsfeld is the first step. he should resign today. He won't - we'll have to run him out of town. Not to worry, Democrats are up for the task, and Bush will be able to pick his successor.

Impeach Bush? No, this is off the table, remember? But I do expect he'll be tried on war crimes after the '08 election.

Other than you getting it wrong as usual, Jay, this was a very entertaining post.

Watch for:More lea... (Below threshold)
hermie:

Watch for:

More leaks of classified information coming from sources within the Senate and House Intelligence Committees.

Suppression of Ethics Investigations of Dems, and the instigation of 'investigartions' of Republicans. (With selected leaks appearing in the NYT)

Sabotaging the economy enough to use as an issue in the 2008 campaign, so as to elect more Dems and get Hillary in the WH.

OK Lee...simple question</p... (Below threshold)
hermie:

OK Lee...simple question

What are the definitions of 'rich' and 'middle class'?

I don't know, Lee, I think ... (Below threshold)
James:

I don't know, Lee, I think Jay has it more on par than you do. The Democrats won't be helping the middle class any... taxes are going to go up. Even Dems in office expect the un-doing of Bush's tax breaks. Economists predict a slumping economy/stocks with the Dems in control of Congress. The Dems have NO plan on terrorism or Iraq that I've seen, other than "Let's get out now" (as trumpeted by Dean last night)... etc. It's a shame that the war is going so badly- people want change, but it's going to screw the USA hardcore.

I couldn't be happier. May... (Below threshold)
sanssoucy:

I couldn't be happier. Maybe *now* the Republicans will rethink the wisdom of making that fat feckless fuck Hastert their poster-child?

In politics, winning never leads to change, and we were never gonna get anything but more-of-the-same from the Republican Party unless we were willing to dump their lame, earmarking asses.

People forget that you have exactly *zero* political power unless your vote is seen to be *in play*.

SS

"I see two ways. The first ... (Below threshold)
doctorj:

"I see two ways. The first is to move forward, to accept the way things are and work to change and improve them. To find solutions that will have appeal across party lines and actually might stand a chance of passing."

Too bad the Republican Party could not have followed your advice. Arrogance and incompetence is a fatal combination. Now the question to me is "Where do we go from here?" Both parties are not listening to the American people. The democrats are starting to respond by putting up more middle of the road candidates. Will the Republicans respond in kind? They better or this downward spiral will continue.

Hermie (re tax cuts) - I do... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Hermie (re tax cuts) - I don't have an opinion as to where the breaks should occur in hard, absolute dollar terms, but my definitions are irrelevant. The definitions that matter to that issue are those that will be forged democratically in the House and Senate.

I'm sure there will be lots of discussion on Wizbang regarding various proposals. I'm sure I'll have an opinion on their merits, and will be happy to share it then.

I expected this to happen. ... (Below threshold)
cmd:

I expected this to happen. It doesn't make it any easier to see these feces-flinging monkeys running around laughing themselves sick.

Enjoy, barney, Lee, jp, nogo and all the rest of you traitors. You won. Now you've got your fondest wish. You can stab the troops in the back (they deserve it, too, those killbots - when they're not the second coming of Jenjis Khan, they're stoopid grammar skool kidz). You can prove OBL right - kill enough Americans, hold on long enough for the terrorist-supporting media to declare "quagmire," and America will cut and run. Screw the Iraqis - we've got to impeach Bush (yeah, sure that's off the table, Lee - just another leftie lie).

You can pretend Bush lied. You can pretend there were no WMDs. You can pretend OBL and Saddam had no connection whatever. You won - you can rewrite history now.

The country's yours. The power is yours. Hope you choke and die.

Regardless of lofty intenti... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Regardless of lofty intention, the world sees yesterday's vote as a referendum on the mettle and fortitude of the American people and we have come up short. Muslims around the world now know that America doesn't have the character, determination or stamina to fight a protracted war. We have shown our most fearsome foe our weak underbelly.

Nevertheless, I see a wonderful business opportunity for some of the folks advertising on WizBang. If they hurry they can still make the Christmas season. The product is a prayer rug with an American flag on top but with the Muslim Crescent over it. The rug includes a user guide so that Americans will know the direction to Mecca from their location. This will be a wonderful gift for our liberal friends and co-workers, and in a decade or so, they may actually need it.

"The country's yours. Th... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"The country's yours. The power is yours. Hope you choke and die."

The country is no more "ours" than it was "yours" before the election, moron. Buy a clue.

I hope your country doesn't... (Below threshold)

I hope your country doesn't go down the toilet TOO fast over the next couple of year. I want to visit at some point, while it's still nice.

Actually I don't think the flip-flopocrats have enough of a majority to screw it up yet, but I could be wrong.

I sure don't feel the gover... (Below threshold)
Tony:

I sure don't feel the government represents me, Lee. Feeling that way, the country is indeed yours. What do I have to look forward to? More of my hard-earned money taken away and put to use in things I have no agreement with? A military being pulled out of Iraq before success, to be brought home dejected and feeling like it was all for naught? (and of course, the subsequent chaos in Iraq which the Dhimmocrats will blame Bush for?) Legalization of late term abortion (among other moral issues)? The freedom to publicly believe in God? The Dhimmocrats talk about personal freedoms, but they take so much away from the people. I feel very depressed and dejected about the direction the country will be going.

Why does it feel like Al Qa... (Below threshold)
Mark:

Why does it feel like Al Qaeda just got elected to majorities in the House & Senate?

Fantasy is nice. It's c... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Fantasy is nice. It's comforting. It's warm and fuzzy. But it's downright dangerous as political policy I couldn't have said it any better...Voters said that corruption was their biggest concern..Democrats may not be able to rewrite the history of the the last 6 years. Who would want to? but they should now be in position to make the Executive and Congress more accountable..Let's see..it would be refreshing to try.

Tell me Lee, what is the de... (Below threshold)

Tell me Lee, what is the democratic position on the WOT? Have to give me some specifics. Otherwise you are just coming off as a pompous ass right now. If you think that is the way are you going to win in 2008, better get used to a two year Pelosi term.

Lee:<br ... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Lee:


Donkey's paw? You should rename this "Elephant's ass" instead.

Boy, that would have made much more sense given that the title was alluding to the tale 'The Monkey's Paw'. I bet your freshman comp. papers were absolutely brilliant. /snide

Hate to correct you, Steve,... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Hate to correct you, Steve, but the way the Democrats will win in '08 is illustrated by your comment. Calling Americans who disagree with you names is what brought Democrats out in record numbers. It's un-American, and your party has been spanked. Learn from it.

Getting rid of Rumsfeld is job 1. Are you going to support that or fight it, Steve? Rumsfeld has mismanaged this situation from 9/11 on. Are you adult enough to admit that now, or is that hat you're wearing a bit too tight, and choking off the blood flow to your brain?

Calling you a pompous ass b... (Below threshold)

Calling you a pompous ass brought out democrats? Get over your ego Lee. Keep shoveling out your little platitudes.

I thinks what happened yest... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

I thinks what happened yesterday was Americans showed that we have stopped being so afraid...of everything..oh sure a small minority still beat that drum but not as many listen anymore..
When Rove had to shout "Fear Nancy P" in his last scrambling moment he had reached bottom...
What we witnessed was the dissalution of the OZ Republican Party...I doubt in will happen by 08..(ya know it's gonna get real mean)but at some time the Real Republican Party will form again. Let the "I so afraid" hate mongers form their own party or just drop out.
It appears the sneaky hippies were successful. They slipped acid into the nations water supply (that Bush can't protect)and the USA is a nation of Moonbats.

Expect another terrorist at... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

Expect another terrorist attack soon.

As resident Wizbang! libera... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

As resident Wizbang! liberal and sometime geek, I regret that I have but two comments to give on behalf of my party:

YATTA!!

and

Neener-neener-neener.

That is all.

--|PW|--

In maintaining your focus o... (Below threshold)
Lee:

In maintaining your focus on me, Steve, your forgot about rumsefld.

EXACTLY the problem that lost you the election. Focusing on fighting Democrats instead of cleaning house by admitting to the mistakes made in the GWOT, and fixing it.

You still don't get it, do you? You illustrated my point perfectly -- you ask me what to do to fix the GWOT, and then attack me rather than address my suggestion. Your fixation on attacking me is blinding you to the choices that need to be made.

Conservatives may take hear... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Conservatives may take heart in the law of unintended consequences ..Should the Dems pick up the Senate, and the Chairmanship of Committees, having to listen to the likes of John Kerry ad nauseum "We have made history tonight, because we have elected, for an unprecedented ninth time, the greatest Senator in the history of the United States Senate, Ted Kennedy.. may drive many independents back to the Republican fold, in time for 2008.

To the "cut and run" & RINO... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

To the "cut and run" & RINO republicans (and yes you wishy washy squishy moderates), you are about to reap what you didn't sow.

Increased terrorists activity in Iraq & Israel which will equate to more deaths of our soldiers and civilians.

Impeachment procedings against George Bush.

Repeal of tax cuts which will slow down the economy and growth.

Hope you sleep well the next two years.

You can stab the troops ... (Below threshold)

You can stab the troops in the back (they deserve it, too, those killbots - when they're not the second coming of Jenjis Khan, they're stoopid grammar skool kidz)

Actually cmd, they get to stab the troops in the front now. They've been stabbing them in the back by supporting the terrorists, cheering on the death toll, not supporing anything Bush offers. Now, with control of the finances, they can cut funding of Iraq and leave the troops hanging. Their cries of Vietnam with be fulfilled as they cut funding, just like in 1974 and Iraq will fall like South Vietnam. At least the troops get to look forward to another scar on the Mall in fifteen years. Maybe they can place it under that newly finished mosque.

Steve - here's another illu... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Steve - here's another illustration for you.

When the NYT's published reports on problems with the NSA bank snooping American conservatives attacked their fellow Americans, rather than fixing the problems.

If there had been Republican oversight of what the administration was doing there wouldn't have been the leaks and publication in the first place, but rather than agreeing and providing the oversight the Republicans instead attacked their fellow Americans, labeling them as traitors. The attacks came straight from the White House.

Americans wont' stand for this any longer. This is "our" country, not "yours" or "mine", and since Republicans refused to fix their problems, you lost the election.

Keep it up, I don't mind. The campaign for the '08 elections starts today. You're losing so far, but don't fix that --attack your fellow Americans instead. Don't kick out Rumsfeld -- defend him to the death. It's ok with me.

This might be a more intere... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

This might be a more interesting two years than anybody realizes. Among the (potentially) elected Democrats are Heath Shuler (Curse of the Redskins, pro-life, pro-gun rights), Bob Casey Jr. (pro-life), and Jim Webb (former Reagan official, "blood and soil" conservative).

As I understand it, there's a small cadre of "Democrats" who are actually Republicans disaffected by the Iraq war, profligate spending, and other issues -- essentially Republicans who ran as Democrats because they believe the (R)s aren't Republicans anymore.

--|PW|--

The thing to hold hope on t... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:

The thing to hold hope on to is this wasn't a "fake right, run left" Democrat campaign.

After years of "running the same left play" and losing over and over, it is clear Democrats had no choice but to run right this time in order to win. Was it a fake right? We'll see once the "whip" comes down on the new D's. Will they vote with Nancy or their constituents?

The Republicans that have been stomping their feet and said they were "sitting this one out" are now relying on the strategy that Democrats will finally expose their agenda's and turn the voters off by 08'. In the mean time Republicans will be forced to return to party principles that is the real appeal to garner votes.

My fear is the damage that can be done while Republicans are in rehab from their drunken spending spree.

1994 was many, many moons ago so many don't remember why those bums were thrown out. It was because of "tax and spend liberalism", "the welfare state", "socialism" and many other things and Clinton read the writing on the wall that this country isn't that left wing.

So my hope is like the guy who gets fired from work. It isn't an end but a new beginning.

I didn't want the foot stomping "I'm sitting this one out" Republicans to prevail. But now I'm forced to "hope they were right".

Time will tell.

I'm off on the timing. Siag... (Below threshold)

I'm off on the timing. Siagon fell in 1975 and the scar showed up in 1982. Therefore, the new scar will come in 10 years, not fifteen. The dhimmicrats should still have a mosque built on the Mall by then.

The truly positive result i... (Below threshold)
epador:

The truly positive result is seeing Joe L defeat the Democratic Party. If there are enough solid thinkers who oppose the status quo in the Senate and House, then we might have a chance to survive the next two decades still a world economic and military power.

If not, the decline and fall will continue.

In recent days, the Dow hit... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

In recent days, the Dow hit record highs. It's unlikely that we'll see a black Wednesday with the Dow dropping like Saddam through a trap door in a noose. But don't expect a hot economy when businesses are bled to death in higher taxes. Out go the jobs and up goes the unemployment rate. Don't come crying and begging for a job from me you suckers. You asked to stand in an unemployment line. Now you got it.

PW:<br /... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

PW:


This might be a more interesting two years than anybody realizes. Among the (potentially) elected Democrats are Heath Shuler (Curse of the Redskins, pro-life, pro-gun rights), Bob Casey Jr. (pro-life), and Jim Webb (former Reagan official, "blood and soil" conservative).

That's what many seem to be missing. This wasn't really a liberal victory as I see it being painted. The strategy that won was running relatively conservative Democrats. Given that, it'll be interesting to see how things go for Speaker Pelosi.

Republicans who ran as D... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Republicans who ran as Democrats because they believe the (R)s aren't Republicans anymore.

That makes no sense. Maybe run as Independants but Democrats? Sounds more like a Democrat taking a moderate position to get elected.

It's fantasy. The moving... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

It's fantasy. The moving hand hath writ, and no matter how much the Democrats wish and hope and try, they can't unwrite history.

But perhaps like the neocons they can attempt to rewrite history -- lie, exaggerate, ignore facts, kiss the devil's ass and call it honey.

You said something here the other day about the general conviction amongst the liberals that killing terrorists would breed more terrorists, and just how wrong that was.

And you know -- on some level, thick as you can be sometimes -- that the killing of civilians by Americans is what those of us who do not live by our lies mean when we say that the war in Iraq breeds terrorists -- that the death of enemy soldiers in American-run prisons would demonstrate to the world that our fine words about democracy were just piles of imperialist shit -- I could go on. I probably will, at some point. But your analysis was the merest neocon fantasy, a fascist prayer leaving out the real-world consequences of starting a war with a small country that has not attacked you -- and this in presence of the world's media organs.

Fantasy, did I say? Idiocy.

Fantasy is nice. It's comforting. It's warm and fuzzy. But it's downright dangerous as political policy.

Borrow-and-spend is fantasy, Jay. Running a war by saddling your children and grandchildren with debt is moonshine. Water does not run uphill.

Going to work; have a nice day.

"This country is no more... (Below threshold)
cmd:

"This country is no more 'ours' than it was 'yours' before the election, moron."

Really, Lee? So all those screams I heard from your side wailing that you had to "take our country back" from the Rethuglikkans were just a lie? Glad to see you admit it.

But like I said, asshat - enjoy your time in the sun. Somewhere in a cave, Osama is smiling.

"Going to work; have a nice... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

"Going to work; have a nice day.
Posted by: astigafa at November 8, 2006 09:19 AM"

You better hope you have a job next year.

VagaBond: <blockquot... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

VagaBond:

That makes no sense. Maybe run as Independants but Democrats? Sounds more like a Democrat taking a moderate position to get elected.

Actually, it does. Casey's going to be Democrat through and through, but take a gander at Jim Webb, particularly this article from the Weekly Standard. Then, consider the case of Heath Shuler, who ran a campaign on "mountain values" and opposes abortion. Especially take a look at this USA Today article, where Shuler describes himself as "kind of the old, Southern-style Democrat, certainly a more moderate-style Democrat."

(I apologize for repeatedly citing those two, but those are the two races I know best)

As for why it "makes sense" for a disappointed Republican to run as a Democrat, note that this election illustrates that unless your name is Joe Lieberman or Bernie Sanders, you aren't going to win as an independent.

--|PW|--

Terrorist attack. Expect ... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

Terrorist attack. Expect another one soon. By voting for Democrats, American voters have proven their disdain for this country and their support for terrorists such as Saddam who killed innocent women and children. American voters have now proven their fear of terrorists by voting for a cut-and-run change in congressional leadership against our policy to stop them. This will now inspire and energize the terrorists to do MORE harm to the US, not less. Like school yard bullies, we will now let them beat more innocent people to death (literally!). The clock is ticking. There will be another terrorist attack and this time we have only ourselves to blame. And when it happens (and it will - mark my words) those that voted for the terrorists better not come crying on my shoulder. How soon we have forgotten 9/11. No more sypathy or donations from me.

To the poster above who ref... (Below threshold)
jvf:

To the poster above who referred to the vast majority of americans who voted Democratic as "Traitors"

No, asshole. They are Patriots. They saved our democracy.

We now have amnesty for Al ... (Below threshold)
914:

We now have amnesty for Al Quaeda! nuff said.

Lee,Ignore these a... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Lee,

Ignore these assholes - THEY'RE NOTHING BUT SORE LOSERS!! HAHAHAHAHA... [snip]

Now tell us, gentle readers. Who lost the election for you? Was it the MSM, or George Bush's failed policies across the board? Remember, in order for the Democrats to give you the bruising they did yesterday, many Republicans and Independents voted for Dem candidates too.

You lost - get over it.

My pullback started.<... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

My pullback started.

Selling stock and cancelled projects. Layoffs will start Monday. I see no continuing growth in the economy.

Thank GodThe count... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Thank God

The country is heading in a new direction!
Nancy Pelosi is a fighter and a history maker. Just look at what she's done for the Democratic party. She has led them to V.I.C.T.O.R.Y.

The look of total shock on some faces of Republicans were "P.R.I.C.E.L.E.S.S."

READ IT AND WEEP!

PW...I don't know ... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

PW...

I don't know enough about your races to comment. To run as a Moderate Democrat instead of a Republican is just disguising who you are to win an election. That turns my stomach.

"The country is heading in ... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

"The country is heading in a new direction!"

Yes it is. I just called and cancelled a $17,000 flooring project. I was going to upgrade a building from carpet to ceramic and granite floors. Not now. The economy will soon tank.

Vagabond:It may "t... (Below threshold)
pennywit:

Vagabond:

It may "turn your stomach," but it's the way politics is played, especially if you're looking at a district in which the incumbent is solidly entrenched and hasn't done anything excessively stupid or icky in the last two years.

--|PW|--

Check the exit polls and yo... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Check the exit polls and you see that yesterday's vote was a referendum on the Iraq war. Voters wanted to send a message to Bush, but what they don't realize is that in the eyes of the Muslim world, yesterday's vote was a referendum on the character of the American people. The message we sent is that we are lacking in heart, fortitude and courage. That we are not up to the task of defeating Islamic radicals. The American people voted to cut and run.

Today true conservatives should take their American flag down from the pole and place it on the ground in front of their door. The date 9/11 has gone down in history as the date radical Islam challenged America and the date 11/7 will go down in history as the date America lost that challenge. Who wins in 2008 doesn't much matter as the course we set yesterday is likely irreversible. I can never again support sending troops to war knowing that the American people will cut and run before the job is done. All we have now is bluff, and not much of that. Go ahead and cut the defense budget; we don't really need a military we don't have the courage to use.

This year I'm giving prayer rugs to all the cut and runners on my Christmas list.

"Go ahead and cut the defen... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

"Go ahead and cut the defense budget; we don't really need a military we don't have the courage to use."

So true. We should change our name from the United States of American to South Canada.

maggysturn coughed up an... (Below threshold)
DavidB:

maggysturn coughed up and said'

You lost - get over it.

Why? The Democracts lost 12 years ago and never got over it. They continually cried about how they were cheated and elections were stolen. Let's see how the Republican losers respond, will they be spewing about how the election was stolen? Somehow I doubt it.

Then justice58 erupted with,

Nancy Pelosi is a fighter and a history maker. Just look at what she's done for the Democratic party. She has led them to V.I.C.T.O.R.Y.

That remains to be seen. But if you think the winning of the election was her doing, you are already delusional and beyond hope.

Oh and for the perennial troll Lee, now that you have your highly ethical party in power, will they be bringing William Jefferson up on ethics charges? The clock is ticking . . .

"true conservatives should ... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

"true conservatives should take their American flag down from the pole and place it on the ground in front of their door."

I just had mine lowered to half staff and it will stay there CONTINUALLY until American has once again been restored to its true image and the traitors that aided the terrorists have been removed from congress. I will NEVER however let it touch the ground as SO MANY Americans have died fighting for this country. And the ones that spit on their graves hold office.

Let's se... (Below threshold)
Heralder:


Let's see how the Republican losers respond, will they be spewing about how the election was stolen? Somehow I doubt it.

WASHINGTON - President Bush, waking up on Wednesday to a new balance of power in Washington, picked up the phone and invited House speaker-in-waiting Nancy Pelosi to lunch.

"They had a very good conversation. He congratulated her on their wins," deputy White House press secretary Dana Perino said about Bush's call to Pelosi the morning after Democrats took control of the House in Tuesday's election.

Bush invited Pelosi and Rep. Steny Hoyer (news, bio, voting record) of Maryland, the second-ranking Democratic leader in the House, to have lunch Thursday at the White House. Bush also called a handful of other lawmakers and invited Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Senate Democrat, to the White House on Friday for a meeting over coffee.

"In all of those calls, I would say there was a strong spirit of good will and the president said `Congresses change, but issues don't,'" Perino said.

You can tell alot about the character of people who conduct themselves well in these types of situations.

As an registered independen... (Below threshold)
Corey:

As an registered independent, I can offer the conservatives on this site this piece of advice. If you want to know what drove people like me away from your party, just read through the comments on this post.

According to you, because I simply disagree with your party's leadership, I spit on the graves of all brave soldiers and take the side with Al Qaida. For the last four years conservatives like you have accused of me of wanting another terrorist attack soon and for actually wanting American to become weak. The one constant theme every time I discuss politics with a conservative any more is that I must be a traitor because I disagree with him or her. This seems to be the attitude of conservatives from the commenters on this site all the way up the the President. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it.

I certainly don't agree with all the views of the current batch of Dems that are about to take over the house & senate, but they're more likely to atleast listen to alternative opinions and at this point that is enough to earn my vote.

And I know that a lot of you guys like to sit back and refer to all of us moderates and independents as wishy-washy and weak-willed, but here's a news flash for you. You can't win without us. We are the swing vote in this country. Stop insulting and attacking us everytime we dare to question one of the decisions or policies that the republican party makes.

Corey,You may be s... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Corey,

You may be sick of it, but if there is another terrorist attack in this country in the next 2 years, you are the one with blood on your hands. Enjoy it.

In the lemons == lemonade d... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

In the lemons == lemonade department:

At least Lee can no longer say "Its time for a change", because he now has it.

I hereby claim that tagline as my own for the next 2 years.

Its time for a change.

"According to you, because ... (Below threshold)
theExecutioner:

"According to you, because I simply disagree with your party's leadership, I spit on the graves of all brave soldiers and take the side with Al Qaida."

Corey, nice try but I NEVER said that. I referred ONLY to those that left American soil and spoke out against out country calling out President a liar and claiming we were wrong to invade Iraq. Unless you did that PUBLICLY, i NEVER said that about you. My posts aren't that difficult to understand.

Well, congratulations, Demo... (Below threshold)
Scott:

Well, congratulations, Democrats! The floor is yours now. Let's see what you do with it.

A national debate over the war in Iraq is a good thing. Let's all talk about what we want and what we are prepared to do to get it. I REALLY want to hear from the Dems. What are they going to do if they get the troops out and Iraq collapses into a butcher state that spreads instability throughout the region? I hope they are preprared to deal with Islamic regimes in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait and perhaps the Saudi entity as well.

Let's see what the Dems do to "jump start" the economy. I'll be looking forward to hearing from them when unemployment is up to 7%, tax receipts are falling, and yet more American businesses move overseas to escape yet more "reforms" from the Dems.

In the end, I'm not going to worry about things too much. I retire in a couple of years. And hey! I work for the welfare department! I'm going to have a lot of work to do with all my new clients!

I'll be retiring to rural New Mexico. I'll leave the crumbling Democratic cities and the coming "urban unrest" to others.

"more likely to at least... (Below threshold)
cmd:

"more likely to at least listen to alternative opinions," Corey?

Suuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrre - tell a Dem you think abortion is murder. Or that tax cuts help the economy. Or that illegal immigrants should not be granted the same rights and privileges of naturalized Americans. Or that charter schools might be a good idea. Or that the word "God" doesn't have four letters. See how long it takes for the Dem to spit in your face for being a Nazi fascist theocrat.

Sheik is right, and I don't give a f**k whether you're "sick of it" - you do have blood on your hands. You've sided with the enemy.

Corey,And... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Corey,

And I know that a lot of you guys like to sit back and refer to all of us moderates and independents as wishy-washy and weak-willed, but here's a news flash for you. You can't win without us.

And here's a news flash for you. America lost without you yesterday, and there's no winning in any of our futures. So many Americans have no clue as to the foe we face and yesterday America rolled over and exposed it's underbelly to that foe.

I would like to send you one of the special prayer rugs I'm having made up just for cut and runners like you. It has directions so that you'll know which way Mecca is when you kneel on it.

According to you,... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
According to you, because I simply disagree with your party's leadership, I spit on the graves of all brave soldiers and take the side with Al Qaida

Well, I guess I should just stop believing my lying eyes then.

Fact: ALL the Democrat leadership during the 1990's told us Saddam was a threat.

Fact: Without Democrat support we would not be in Iraq.

Fact: Democrats now pretend none of this happened.

Political endorsements from terrorist organizations are nothing to be flippant about.

Or are my lying eyes at it again?

Bill Whittle has a new essa... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Bill Whittle has a new essay up today, as always, excellent. Check it out.

He wrote a bit of a prologue to it this morning, here's a relevant piece:

I wish to tell my friends to be cheerful and especially to be of good will. Disappointments come and go, but moments of courage and integrity in dark hours will be there when the stars grow cold. We have lost the election, so let us maintain our determination, our dignity and our sense of humor, and let us take this moment to reflect upon how our actions have fallen short of our ideals. And then, finally, let's act like the Americans we are, roll up our sleeves and start rebuilding. We who have survived Civil War, the Nazi's and the Communists can probably manage to find a way to preserve the Republic in the face of Speaker Pelosi. America is not only much, much stronger than you imagine; it is stronger than you CAN imagine.

I have to agree with some here, this is not the end of the world, or the country. I am a bit fearful, yes, but this is not the presidency. What would really weaken us as a nation now is having America completely paralyzed by bipartisan strife.


Sheik Yur Bouty - I'm not r... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Sheik Yur Bouty - I'm not ready to give it up just yet. There's a White House to win, and I am 1000% percent confident that Bush will give us lots more reasons to want a change from the Republican administration that has terrorized Americans for years now.

As I keep saying, I hope conservatives don't change one inch. I'm counting on you guys putting a Democrat in the White House in the '08 elections. Don't let us down!

Tell Bush to use the Veto often -- that's one way to piss off America even more. I'm sure you have other ideas that will sink your hopes for a Republican President in '08. Keep it up!

Where to even begin....... (Below threshold)
Corey:

Where to even begin....

Sheik:

By using that logic, does that mean that the blood of the 9/11 victims is on the hands of all those that voted for Bush in 2000? Or, is it safe to say that no matter who had won that election, OBL would have still carried out the attach because he hates us regardless of what party is in control?

Executioner:

You did say "By voting for Democrats, American voters have proven their disdain for this country and their support for terrorists such as Saddam who killed innocent women and children". I voted Democrate yesterday, and therefore you are claiming that I support terrorism and think happy thoughts when I hear about Saddam rape room. That's absurd and it's insulting.

cmd:

I'm not saying 100% of liberals are rational. My point is that I share some views with Dems, some with Repubs. When I try to make a calm, rational point about something in politics to a Dem whom I disagree with, about 60-75% of the time I get a civil debate about the issue. Yes sometimes you do get liberals who jump right on the attack and start going off on some crazy tangent, but overall I'm able to discuss stuff with them.

When I do the same with conservatives I meet, I would say about 60% of them instantly jump on the attack and start calling me a traitor, terrorisist or any other variety of insults. Furthermore, the only person who has ever called me a nazi during a debate was a conservative, so you guys don't exactly get get to pin that one soley on the liberals.

Jumpinjoe:

For every bit of hipocracy that you fire off at me about the Democrates, I read a matching bit of hipocracy about the Republicans. The fact that politicians change their opinions and back pedal all the time is nothing new, nor is an exclusive trait of the Dems.


Listen, this is my big point. I don't support terrorism. I hate OBL as much as any of you. I want my country to be just as strong, safe and successful as any of you do. We just don't agree on the best way to achieve it. Instead of screaming and calling me names, try making a convincing arguement. Trust me, it will go much further in swaying people like me to take your side than attacking us will.

The message we sent is t... (Below threshold)
sanssoucy:

The message we sent is that we are lacking in heart, fortitude and courage. That we are not up to the task of defeating Islamic radicals. The American people voted to cut and run.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Get a grip.

America won the Cold War with Democrats firmly in charge of Congress; if we could beat the Russians with Ted Kennedy running things in DC, we can beat the towelheads with Peewee Herman in charge.

SS

Lee,If the electio... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Lee,

If the election was just about American politics I wouldn't be so disappointed, in fact putting the Democrats in charge for two years may turn into a Republican advantage in 08. The problem is that radical Islam is a foe like no other this nation has ever faced and the message we sent them yesterday is that America doesn't have what it takes to defeat them.

Liberials like yourself likely opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning, so you are not to blame for our defeat in Iraq. The blame rests on those who supported the invasion of Iraq and then didn't have the courage to see it to the end. What you might find surprising is that you have a new ally in opposing future military operations. I can no longer in good conscience support large military operations knowing the American electorate will cut and run before the job is done. We'll just have to learn to accept civilian terrorist casualties on American soil.

Corey,I w... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Corey,

I want my country to be just as strong, safe and successful as any of you do.

I believe that was your intention, but that's now a pipe dream. We showed weakness to our Islamic foe and history shows that means eventual defeat. It may be decades in coming, but yesterday that future was set in motion by cut and runners like yourself.

Listen, this is m... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Listen, this is my big point. I don't support terrorism. I hate OBL as much as any of you. I want my country to be just as strong, safe and successful as any of you do. We just don't agree on the best way to achieve it. Instead of screaming and calling me names, try making a convincing arguement.

Cory, unless you read my post real loud, there was no screaming. Calling you names? Huh?

Here's the bottom line, the premise of my post directed at yours; If Iraq were the biggest issue then it would be safe to say based on Democrats words and actions in the past, that Democrats would have supported action in Iraq had the President had a "D" after his name. (Since they did before)

But the lives our troops have been put on the line because those that opposed President Bush politically only did a 180 on Iraq for politics sake and not whether they actually believed Saddam was a threat. (Which they did believe)

Terrorists know this and it emboldens them.

Jumpinjoe:Sorry fo... (Below threshold)
Corey:

Jumpinjoe:

Sorry for the confusion, from "Listen, this is my big point" on in my last post was a general comment to conservatives, not a direct counter-point to your post.

However, to repond to your last comment, do I think that there are a lot of Dems who would have supported Bush had he had a D after his name? Yes, definitely. Do I also think most republicans would have been up in arms about warrentless wiretaps on american citizens had Bush not had an R after his name? Yes, definitely.

Breaking news!Rums... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Breaking news!

Rumsfeld resigns!

Do I also think mo... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Do I also think most republicans would have been up in arms about warrentless wiretaps on american citizens had Bush not had an R after his name? Yes, definitely

I wonder how many troops would not have lost their lives had Democrats maintained their contention Saddam was a threat and showed more unity thus sending a message to terrorists we were serious about defeating them.

And I disagree with "R's" making the same fuss over wiretapping terrorists phone calls. But then if a "D" was President, I don't think it would have made the front page of the NYT's either.

Sorry, but I don't see how ... (Below threshold)
Corey:

Sorry, but I don't see how a single soldier has lost their life because a Democrate voiced an opinion that differed from Bush's opinion. Whether you agree with the Dems opinion or not doesn't matter. Nor does the fact that the opinion of some Dems may have been different 10 years ago. The fact is, the decision made by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld had 1000X more influence over what happened in Iraq than some sound bite from Kennedy or Pelosi ever did. Bush had the majority in the house and the Senate. If things didn't go well in Iraq, that is where the blame lies, not on the Dems shoulders for disagreeing with Bush (espeically since they were powerless to stop him from doing whatever he wanted).

Corey,Yes, soundbi... (Below threshold)
Ben:

Corey,

Yes, soundbites from the opposition cost soldiers lives, by invigorating the opposition. War is 90% mental. You may not understand how that works, but it does. A public face of resolve and unity is crucial. It's kind of like, well, if you hired a team of lawyers to win a case, how do you think you'd react to one lawyer openly undermining the arguments of the the team? In fact its more than that- gut feelings, unspoken words, and informal interactions count for far more in the current struggle with Islamism than they have ever counted in a war before, because it is a war of philosophies far more than nations.

Rome fell when leading families and factions decided that the internal struggle for power was far more important than the overall defense of civilization. Constantine III left Britain not because he wanted to bring troops to fight against Germanic incursions, but because he wanted his (and his troops') say in the struggle for leadership of the Roman Empire.

Someday, some history student's thesis may compare the infighting of the Romans in the early 5th century with that of the United States in the early 21st, and note that both led up to barbarian victories and severe setbacks for civilization in general.

And Lee, you are utterly wrong about Rumsfield.

"Getting rid of Rumsfeld is job 1." Sorry, wrong. He resigned. Getting rid of him is not a job at all. Since you were utterly unable to see that coming- although no doubt you will explain it post hoc- perhaps your foresight is not as complete as you think it is?

Ben

Holy cow, theExecutioner an... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Holy cow, theExecutioner and Sheik Yur Bouty actually want another terrorist attack, just to make the Dems look bad! Sick, sick, sick. What's wrong with you people?

Sorry, wrong. He resigne... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Sorry, wrong. He resigned.

Are you really that naive?

Ben,Your argument ... (Below threshold)
Corey:

Ben,

Your argument only holds water if you make the assumption that the Bush Admin's strategy in Iraq was 100% correct. Using your lawyer scenario, if the team was making an arguement that I though was flawed and ultimately destined not to work, then I would not mind if one member of the team broke ranks and tried to get us going in the right direction.

It ultimately comes back to the fact that those of us that voted Dem yesterday don't hate the country, we don't support the terrorists, and we aren't out trying to make sure that every value that America holds dear is destroyed. We simply have a different opinion on what is best.

""Getting rid of Rumsfel... (Below threshold)
Lee:

""Getting rid of Rumsfeld is job 1." Sorry, wrong. He resigned. Getting rid of him is not a job at all. Since you were utterly unable to see that coming- although no doubt you will explain it post hoc- perhaps your foresight is not as complete as you think it is?"

Ben, I was shocked by Bush's move today. I said "getting rid of Rumsfeld is job 1" because I thought us Democrats had a chore ahead of us getting him out of his office.

I thought we would have to make Bush fire Rummy - but he handed it to us on a silver platter.

Bush said just last week that Rumsfeld would stay for two years - and silly me - I took him for his word.




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