« Russian Spy Poisoned with a Large Dose of Radioactive Polonium-210 | Main | No Sympathy for the New York Times »

The greatness of Islam

One of the things I find most admirable about Islam is its openness. As a faith, it freely welcomes converts from all races, sexes, ethnicities -- literally any human being who wishes to become a Muslim can readily do so.

Other faiths aren't quite so hospitable.

I briefly looked into converting to Judaism. It ain't easy. If you aren't born a Jew, you have to study and take classes and even after all that, you still have to persuade a rabbi to accept you as a Jew.

Christianity is a touch easier, but you still have to work a bit. Simply declaring yourself a Christian doesn't quite cut it. You still ought to attend your church regularly, pronounce your faith, and abide by the tenets on a regular basis.

But Islam is much, much simpler. All you have to do is make the declaration of faith -- "I attest that there is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is His prophet" -- and you're in.

Islam is truly a univeral religion; it is not the exclusive property of any single race, sex, color, ethnicity, or age group.

Which means that when someone criticizes Islam, to denounce them as a "racist" is being, at best, an idiot -- and at worst, trying to suppress and silence the critic.

And while I'm on the subject, I think it is fair to refer to Islam as the "Roach Motel" of religions -- people check in, but they can't check out. It is the only major religion in the world today that treats "apostasy" -- leaving the faith -- as a capital offense, and practices that today.

As I said, Islam has several things more than worthy of admiration. It's just that there are too many other things about it that deeply bother me -- and, to an extent, frighten me.


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The greatness of Islam:

» Conservative Culture linked with Ahhhh….. The Greatness of Islam

» Maggie's Farm linked with Saturday Afternoon Links

» Plains Feeder linked with Confronting Islam

Comments (58)

The problem too is that one... (Below threshold)

The problem too is that one doesn't even have to declare that they're committing apostacy, or so it's been shown over and over; it only takes someone else to declare one an apostate to get a death sentence. That may or may not be an absolute tenet of Islam, but that's what we've been shown by rabid fundamentalists.

Islam is "open" in the way ... (Below threshold)

Islam is "open" in the way a diode is "open." As for the ease with which one can get in, that's because it's a totalitarian system. All totalitarian systems make it easy to get in.

Islam is a very simplistic faith. It contains no mystery elements, makes almost no theological statements other than "Allah wants it this way," and proclaims itself complete and correct for all time, such that any attempt to amend any of its doctrines constitutes heresy -- a capital crime by Islamic law.

In short, Islam is a "faith" for mentally subnormal persons who want to be told what to do and think on all subjects, and who need excuses for violence and threats of violence toward others.

(Irrelevant, paranoid tw... (Below threshold)
kb:

(Irrelevant, paranoid twaddle deleted by editor)

It's just that the... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
It's just that there are too many other things about it that deeply bother me -- and, to an extent, frighten me

This is frightening and we don't talk about this enough, but it should be brought up every time we speak of the war on terror and that is the fact many Muslims believe it is time to hasten the coming of the twelfth Imam.

Of course this can only happen with the destruction of Israel and the United States. It IS the foreign policy of Iran right now. The little wolf boy of Iran, "Ahmadinejad" has stated this himself that this reality is only 2 or 3 years away. (Sounds like the timing coincides with the completion of a nuclear arsenal)

I noticed you used the word... (Below threshold)

I noticed you used the word twaddle in the deleted post. I'd like to see the word codswallop used more often if you don't mind.

There's an absence of the a... (Below threshold)
Mildred:

There's an absence of the all important FREE WILL if you cannot leave the "roach motel" without being subjected to such EXTREME consequences.

Maybe if there was a test/r... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Maybe if there was a test/requirement for a minimum iq or education and a daily shower, and some leeway in young men being able to 'get a little', Islam wouldnt have all of these angry young men whose sole purpose is to execute others.

Wherever the dividing line ... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Wherever the dividing line is between a Religion and a Cult, Islam is the closest of the major Religions.

All Christians have to do i... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

All Christians have to do is accept Christ died for their sins and accept him as savior... there's no works involved.

islam is not a religion of ... (Below threshold)
Joe:

islam is not a religion of peace.

It is a violent ideology that seeks submission, 2nd class citizenship for a fee, or death.

To put it in simplest terms the ideology of islam is not compatible with Western culture. Some Western cultures are learning this the hard way.

How long has Islam been aro... (Below threshold)
JP:

How long has Islam been around? 1400 years or so? I wonder what Christianity was like at that age. Which would be around the year 1400 [duh].

Enlightened? Tolerant?

Maybe this is a phase, so to speak. Maybe they'll outgrow it.

Maybe 14 centuries is the awkward teenage years for major monotheistic religions.

But Islam is much,... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
But Islam is much, much simpler. All you have to do is make the declaration of faith -- "I attest that there is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is His prophet" -- and you're in.

But once your're in you must practice Islam or be declared an apostate by someone else, which is a death sentence. Lots of folks are raised as Christians, but then fall away. That doesn't happen much with Islam as it's practitioners kill those who fall away.

Real Christianity is the hardest religion to get into because it's by faith. Head knowledge and good works are of no value if you don't have faith. Faith comes from reading and meditating on the word of God, the Bible, but no one can receive faith from God's word until they accept His word as the ultimate truth. Therein lies the problem for the intellectually proud. In 1 Corinthians 1:18 the Apostle Paul characterizes the Gospel message as "foolishness" to those who are perishing. Jesus warns in Mark 10:15 and again in Luke 18:17 that to enter the Kingdome of God one must receive it like a little child.

Jay, can you do what a little child can do? We see in 1 Corinthians 1:27-28 that God chose the foolish things of the world in order to put to shame the wise. God chose the lowly and despised things of the world in order to bring the things the world values to nothing.

God hides the most precious treasure possible in plain sight knowing the intellectually proud, and the powerful will never find it, yet those the world despises readily take hold of it unto salvation. Such is the wisdom and mercy of God.

JP - The stakes ar... (Below threshold)

JP -

The stakes are a bit higher now than they were in the 1400's - nuclear weapons and the will to use them can put disproportionate power into the hands of those who want to kill us for their beliefs.

Jeff -

I think working to live up to Jesus' summary of the law is also a good idea for those who seek to be Christian - love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The radical precept of Christianity is that non-Christians are also thought of as your neighbors, and are as worthy of love as you are.

Hang on a minute - Jeff got... (Below threshold)
Candy:

Hang on a minute - Jeff got it absolutely correct. There are NO works involved in being saved and going to heaven. One admits that one is a sinner, accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior, and is saved. Christians, once they are filled with the love of Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit do what the bible tells them to do - although we constantly stumble - because we want to please God and because we want to obey God.

We are washed in the blood of the Lamb, and are saved, regardless of whether or not we ever step foot in a church, attend Sunday School or feed the needy.

Think for a moment of the thief on the cross: he simply accepted Jesus as the Messiah as he was dying, and Jesus told him "today you will be with me in heaven". If works were involved, that man was going to hell. By golly - he didn't have a chance to be baptised. He didn't climb off the cross and run to a church. No man was involved in his conversion except himself and Jesus Christ.

Christianity - true Christianity - is a simple and heartfelt and truthful act that changes one's life forever. God wants ALL to be saved. It is the simplicity of the thing that sometimes confuses people into thinking there is more to it than John 3:16.

Jay: "Islam is truly a u... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Jay: "Islam is truly a univeral religion; it is not the exclusive property of any single race, sex, color, ethnicity, or age group."

Sounds like CostCo.

Only CostCo isn't intent on forcing the whole world to shop ONLY THERE! (ok...maybe they ARE!)

There is NO other major religion abroad in the world today tht is being used ROUTINELY (or AT ALL for that matter) to justify the most unspeakable acts ever witnessed by mankind.

Yes, we are often reminded that during the Middle Ages Christianity was used to justify some pretty terrible stuff. Almost every religion has gone through a period when it was used to justify evil for some "higher good".

But unlike other religions, Islam is STUCK ON STUPID!!

Well, JP, I'm a Christian, ... (Below threshold)
mary:

Well, JP, I'm a Christian, and I wouldn't have it any other way. There's only one commandment that Jesus says that we should remember, "Love God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself". You really should sit down, Koran on one side, the Bible on the other, and start reading. You'll be surprised how accurate and self-fulling the Bible really is. It's history, at it's best. The New Testament, once you read it, and if you truly want to be changed, it will change you for the better. To acknowledge your short comings before God, to agree with God that you are a sinner, and that Jesus, when you acknowledge Him as your saviour, will be saved. Isalm didn't come into being until 800 years after the death of Christ. If you died say today, and just before you did and had a conversation with a Christisan, were saved, you would go to Heaven. Yes, there are works, but without faith, your works are dead. Isalm deals with works. So how many works do you need to do? Would muslims help non-muslims? Would you donate to charities other than muslims? And what did Mohammed prophetize. A prophet will be given insight to future events, much like the prophets in the Bible. They were intended to bring the people of Israel back to serving God and not themselves. It's so sad that if a Muslim wants to convert to Christianity will be killed. God of Israel is the only ONE true God. Abraham was a Hebrew. Moses was a Hebrew. And as for going to church every Sunday, it's a mandate from God, in Hebrews, "don't forsake the gathering of yourselfs." Proverbs, you should read that book, boy, talk about how to live correctly! How to avoid bad people; how to cease from strife; how Gods hates evil; how to treat people, etc. The Koran and the Haditiah (spelling)only reveal one thing, death. We are hear to serve God,and God only. That's why the world is in the mess that it's in. It should not be what makes us happy, but what makes God happy, our faith.

Hang on a minute - Jeff ... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Hang on a minute - Jeff got it absolutely correct. There are NO works involved in being saved and going to heaven. One admits that one is a sinner, accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior, and is saved. Christians, once they are filled with the love of Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit do what the bible tells them to do - although we constantly stumble - because we want to please God and because we want to obey God.

This is one definition of what it means to be a Christian, and it's not the oldest or most pervasive; it's American fundy-Baptist salvationism, and it ain't necessarily the entire story.

Which reminds me: there are also more strains of Islam than the handy-headgear/kill-em-all,
sis-been-raped-so-we-gotta-shoot-her variety we have all come to know and loathe.

My personal conclusion is that the fundamentalist mindsest, wherever one encounters it, is essentially screwy. This applies to Gaian treeboinking Earth Firsters, Pentacostal snake handlers and Chicago Bears fans.

There's a simple answer to every question, said Father Mencken, and it's wrong. If your faith can be defined by J.T. Chick in 12 tiny pages, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Hmm...JT Chick, Jay Tea. Could be.

The huge draw back to freel... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

The huge draw back to freely "checking in" to Islam as a faith, is that any nutjob can do so, and distort the faith into endless, mindless jihad as has now happened.

The huge draw back to fr... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

The huge draw back to freely "checking in" to Islam as a faith, is that any nutjob can do so, and distort the faith into endless, mindless jihad as has now happened.

All sorts of nutjobs out there, checking into all sorts of things. I think you're one of them.

Check that: I think you're ten of them.

This is one defini... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
This is one definition of what it means to be a Christian, and it's not the oldest or most pervasive; it's American fundy-Baptist salvationism, and it ain't necessarily the entire story.

The oldest definition of Christianity is found in the New Testament. That definition preceded the Roman Catholic Church by more than 300 years. It was the translation and widespread publishing of the Bible that brought that first definition of Christianity back into widespread practice in the west and even transformed the Roman Catholic Church into what it is today. That oldest definition accepts the Bible as the full and final authority. You likely know it as fundamentalist Christianity.

My personal conclusion is that the fundamentalist mindsest, wherever one encounters it, is essentially screwy.

What you call the fundamentalist mindset is just strongly held beliefs. People who have no strongly held beliefs are easily manipulated like putty or discouraged by hardship. Think if this nation's founders and of the hardships endured by them and the pioneers who settled this country. Without people who hold to their beliefs nothing hard gets done. The difference is in what those beliefs are.

There's a simple answer to every question, said Father Mencken, and it's wrong.

There's no easier way to trip up the intellectually proud than to make the answer simple. The Apostle Paul, one of the most learned men of his day, understood this and saw God's purpose in using the simple message of the Gospel to bring salvation to those who humble themselves.

If Islam is a religion then... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

If Islam is a religion then Nazism was a religion. Both survive by death squads. One died by the gun, except for a few mental retards, and the other, all mental retards, should follow soon. Maybe we need to get rid of 50-60 minuteman missiles with multiple warheads. If the Islamic nuts keep it up I think congress should declare a 'shoot an Islamist day". No permit required. If the American people would tell the truth for once instead of hiding behind the PC BS, 98% feel the same way.

Mac Lorry, I was going to a... (Below threshold)

Mac Lorry, I was going to answer astigafa, but I think you've pretty much said it. I just want to elaborate on one thing.

Fundamentalists are those who hold to all the tenets of their religion, not just the ones that make them feel warm and fuzzy. In the Christian sense, fundamentalists don't cherry-pick the Bible but accept it all, even the parts they don't like. Throwing around the word "fundy" in an insulting manner is admitting that you don't want to believe anything strongly if it makes you feel less than perfectly comfortable. It puts you at the center of everything. It's merely the mark of the secular humanist.

Scrapiron: "If the Ameri... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Scrapiron: "If the American people would tell the truth for once instead of hiding behind the PC BS, 98% feel the same way."

Scrap...sadly it's probably not at 98% yet (though it should be at 100%). For some it will take their neighborhood school being taken over by the Jihadists and 100 innocent children being slaughtered.

What you call the fundam... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

What you call the fundamentalist mindset is just strongly held beliefs. People who have no strongly held beliefs are easily manipulated like putty or discouraged by hardship. Think if this nation's founders and of the hardships endured by them and the pioneers who settled this country. Without people who hold to their beliefs nothing hard gets done. The difference is in what those beliefs are.

The nations founders were largely deists who grew hemp. And the notion that the pioneers were godshot fundementalists is just wrong, unhistorical. You will always find devout people in tough places, but there devotion will not always be defined by some 21st century revisionists notion of fundementalism.

Johnny Appleseed, remember him? Hymn-singing tree planter? Didn't exist. JA (as his friends called him) was spreading applejack: booze. Look it up.

In the Christian sense, fundamentalists don't cherry-pick the Bible but accept it all, even the parts they don't like.

Most of what you say here is dreck, Silverbubble; the rest is just shit. How do you feel -- speaking of course as a Christian fundementalist -- about Proverbs 31:6-7: "Give beer to those who are perishing, and wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more."?

Tell me: Do the women in your church wear hats? No? Are they allowed to speak and teach, ask questions?

For shame!

astigafa is starting to con... (Below threshold)

astigafa is starting to convince me that he is just as much of a fundamentalist as those he rails against; it's just his brand of fundamentalism is "eternal hostility to those who consider their faith significant."

Tell you what, asti: as soon as a Christian or Jew or Buddhist kills over a dozen times in the name of their faith, and the vast majority of their co-religionists say nothing, I'll start worrying about THEM.

And one final point, from a born-again agnostic: the four biggest butchers of the 20th century -- Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot -- were all pronounced atheists. You'll forgive me if I don't cast such a suspicious eye on most of the world's religions, but rather those who declare their hostility to it.

J.

asti, I'm going to ask you ... (Below threshold)

asti, I'm going to ask you politely: please play nice with the others and mind your language. There really was no call for that sort of thing.

J.

asti, I'm going to ask y... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

asti, I'm going to ask you politely: please play nice with the others and mind your language. There really was no call for that sort of thing.

Sorry.

The one time I'd actually W... (Below threshold)

The one time I'd actually WELCOME astigafa elaborating, he goes for conciseness to the point of being cryptic:

Sorry.

Sorry for the language, or sorry but I won't behave myself?

I find myself hoping for the former, but expecting the latter.

J.

Astigafa, Proverbs is an Ol... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

Astigafa, Proverbs is an Old Testament book. Not that Christians ignore the Old Testament but I think the basis of the faith derives from the New Covenant with God realized through Christ's sacrifice for mankind as documented in the New Testament. You would be a much better human being if you took pity on us misguided Christians instead of responding in anger. It's not like we're going to behead you or anything like that.

The nations founde... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
The nations founders were largely deists who grew hemp. And the notion that the pioneers were godshot fundementalists is just wrong, unhistorical.

While most were religious, I didn't say all were, but they certainly had strongly held beliefs, enough so that they were willing to put their lives on the line for those beliefs. These are the same people you consider "essentially screwy".

....but there devotion will not always be defined by some 21st century revisionists notion of fundementalism.

So you have problems with historical facts. The revisionism is yours not mine. As for Proverbs 31:6-7, read verses 1-5 to get an understanding of it's actual meaning.

Tell me: Do the women in your church wear hats? No? Are they allowed to speak and teach, ask questions?

Women can ware hats if they want, but are only required to ware them if they have no hair. Women are not allowed to teach in a worship service if there are confirmed men in attendance. If that's a stumbling block to you, so be it. Anyone who picks and chooses what parts of the Bible are God's true word is following a blind guide.

astigafa: "The nations f... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

astigafa: "The nations founders were largely deists who grew hemp."

(a) they were NOT largely deists.

(b) HEMP was, and still is, used for making ROPE. Your obvious intent was to portray the Founding Fathers as pot-smokers. Antying to undermine them, eh?

I'm getting REAL tired of astigafa, and his ilk, being so intent on destroying any and everything of American history, culture and even folklore.

Meanwhile, Islam (remember the subject of this thread?) is spreading its hateful and murderous idealogy across the planet.

I used to not lump regular Muslims in with those professing the more radical forms of Islam. But I'm now convinced that they are one and the same!!

Lets look at the facts. In ... (Below threshold)
Sameh:

Lets look at the facts. In Islam everyone is equal, there are no divisions in race, colour, ethnicity, wealth, etc. This is God's justice. The issue of apostacy is really bugging you huh? Well, get educated about it. In Islam, one should not be worried about killing, rather it is all about your personal relations with your Creator and sustainer.

Apostacy in Islam is looked down upon because he knew the truth and now has rejected it and left it. However, this does not mean that he should be killed. During the prophet's who were hypocrites living amongst muslims. However, the prophet never ordered for them to be killed, he would ask God to guide them to the straight path. But, when those people are intendingly seeking to hurt the muslims and their community, then the killing of those people would save the community from many evils. Therefore, only when the apostates are working to create division of muslims and hurt the religion of Islam then this is when it is allowed to apply the divine law. For example, one person may influence hundreds of people to leave Islam. Think for your self. This person can do so much harm to the whole community. By the way, it is not that easy to apply this divine law on someone. It is a whole process because in Islam, mercy overtakes punishment. However, in some cases it makes sense that God would divinely order us to apply certain rulings at certain times due to him being All-Wise. Please get informed about the divine laws of Islam and how they are to be applied in certain situations. http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/shariah_the_way_to_justice/

Astigafa, Christians look a... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Astigafa, Christians look at the Old Testament as mostly a history lesson. It's good to understand, see what the rules were BEFORE Christ saved us, learn, etc. However, Christ's birth, death, resurrection, and sacrifice changed the "rules." That's why Christians don't have to adbide by women not teaching, men having short hair and women long, head coverings, and whatever other Old Testament supposed hypocracy you might come up with.

Christianity is NOT based upon works. Our salvation is what makes us want to be like Christ-- it isn't a requirement, it's a personal decision to do what's right. We will not ever be rejected for doing wrong- Christians are saved. Most Christians do want to be like Christ, but it's not like God's going to slam the door in anyone's face who has been saved, even if they're not perfect.

Sameh, so within Islam, one... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

Sameh, so within Islam, one has the role of women. They are expected to be in the home (according to your link). However, in being assigned that role she is not considered inferior. How does Islam deal with the individual woman who does not want to assume that role - that is wants assume a professional career that does not permit her the time to run a household? Is that freedom of choice permitted by shariah law? May the husband share that role withour being looked down upon? If not, do you personally believe that is the way it should be?

Sameh, thank you so muchfor... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Sameh, thank you so muchfor providing such a calm and succinct explanation of how totally INSANE Islam is.
you start with: "In Islam, one should not be worried about killing,..."

I feel better already. I was worried that the Jihadistis might be having second-thoughts while sawing people's heads off! This would have caused them stress. Now, you shown me that they don't have to worry their cute little heads. Whew!

ah...THEN you explain why it's OK to slaughter any who might decide Islam isn't for them:
"Therefore, only when the apostates are working to create division of muslims and hurt the religion of Islam then this is when it is allowed to apply the divine law. For example, one person may influence hundreds of people to leave Islam."

So this "person" must DIE because they dare to disagree with Islam?? And because they DARE to ask people to (your words): "Think for your self."

Islam wants NO ONE to think for themselves. Islam offers 3 choices:
- complete obedience
- total subjugation (i.e., slavery)
- DEATH!

By the way Sameh, if the Pr... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

By the way Sameh, if the Prophet never ordered those accused of apostacy to be killed, you must realize that there are those WITHIN Islam who today feel that killing is a rightful retribution for this "sin". This is the exact problem I see today, you are willing to lecture us on our ignorance of Islam when all we are doing is learning by watching. Is it not clear to you what we see??? You should be less worried about the hypocrits living "amongst" Islam and more about those living "within" it.

The main issue with Islam i... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

The main issue with Islam is that it combines the prosletyzing of Christianity with violence. Both faiths try to convert you, but Islam seems more willing to use violence, honestly.

I do not think highly of Islam, based on the actions of its adherents. The faith is in desperate need of a Reformation that saved Christianity from the Catholic Church (and, yes, at the time, the Catholic Church was a truly corrupt and ugly organization).
-=Mike

I cannot see what's so grea... (Below threshold)
Bob Jones:

I cannot see what's so great about islam?

It's a cult who's leader raped, pillaged, lied, and killed his way to the top and advocates the same in the name of their god.

What's so great about that?

Islam is many things, just ... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

Islam is many things, just like Christianity.

I am not religious, but agree with those who say that religion satisfies some people's deep yearnings. This leads to certain themes and forms being repeated by different religions. Some of these forms contradict others, but all satisfy something people want.

There are odd and symmetrical parallels between the gaudy representational iconography and penitential forms of Shi'a Islam and Baroque Latin Catholicism, including things like self-flagellation - did the self-mortification of Holy Week in the Spanish countries come from Islam, or was it the other way around from Ashura ceremonies?

Similarly, there is the austerity of reformist "wooden cross and Bible" Christian fundamentalism, Calvinism and Lutheranism and the non-representational and Koranic fundamentalism of Wahabism.

There are also the mystical branches of religions: the Sufis in Islam, Kabbala in Judaism, and Gnosticism and other Christian mystic forms, which share forms with Eastern religions.

Most people are entirely ignorant of the history and forms of their own religion, let alone Islam. In the end, religious belief is an accident of birth for 99% of the world.

Second posting of irrele... (Below threshold)
kb:

Second posting of irrelevant, paranoid twaddle deleted, and commenter banned by editor.

Sorry, Oyster, but I think there's a difference between "twaddle" and "codswallop." This twaddle ("The CIA has killed over 6 million people") had at least a veneer of legitimacy, as it linked to several articles to back up the assertion. "Codswallop" is utterly unbelievable bunkum, no more than half a step above making stuff up, and is laughably wrong on its face. Believe me, I use "codswallop" as often as I can, but it didn't seem to fit here.

J.

Fight against Christians an... (Below threshold)
Johnathan:

Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low." 9:29

Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them. 9:30

The "Religion of Truth" (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions. 9:33

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34

Jeff, "I do not permit a wo... (Below threshold)
JGrams:

Jeff, "I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:12) and "but every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head, for it is one and the same as [having] a shaved head" (1 Corinthians 11:5) are both from the New Testament. And while the faith vs. works debate has been going on throughout Christian history, the emphasis on faith alone was a part of the Protestant Reformation (Luther's Tower Experience while studying Romans 1:17). The Catholic Counter-Reformation, otoh, reaffirmed both faith *and* works.

..lets keeelhaul all of the... (Below threshold)
Agent 007:

..lets keeelhaul all of them ragheads before it is too late. They are trying to take away our way of life. Kill them all..nuke the oil fields soo for 200 years NO One can use the money to sustain terrorist Cowards who hide behind a dead religion. Come and get me I will kill everyone with extreme predjudice.NUKE'em Chief and let Jesus sort them out.

I am not religious... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
I am not religious, but agree with those who say that religion satisfies some people's deep yearnings. This leads to certain themes and forms being repeated by different religions. Some of these forms contradict others, but all satisfy something people want.?

It could be that most people have a sense of the spiritual realm, an inner witness of the things our eyes and our wisdom cannot discern.

did the self-mortification of Holy Week in the Spanish countries come from Islam, or was it the other way around from Ashura ceremonies?

People trying to atone for their own sins or earn their way into rightness or self justification are common themes even among the non religious.

Similarly, there is the austerity of reformist "wooden cross and Bible" Christian fundamentalism.

Yet some Christian fundamentalist preachers have their own jet planes. It's not about what you have, but how you got it and what you do with it.

There are also the mystical branches of religions: the Sufis in Islam, Kabbala in Judaism, and Gnosticism and other Christian mystic forms, which share forms with Eastern religions.

That's because humans are in the midst of a war between good and evil. The enemy of God uses the base nature of humans to subvert the truth.

In the end, religious belief is an accident of birth for 99% of the world.

This is a common theme among atheists, who apparently don't understand why it's not persuasive accept to other atheists. The Bible gives many examples of God controlling where and when and to whom an individual is born, and thus, it's not an accident at all. Certainly people come and go from Christianity in large numbers. How many would leave Islam if it were not punishable by death? How many intellectuals would accept Christianity except for their intellectual pride?

Most of what you say her... (Below threshold)

Most of what you say here is dreck, Silverbubble; the rest is just shit. How do you feel -- speaking of course as a Christian fundementalist -- about Proverbs 31:6-7: "Give beer to those who are perishing, and wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more."?

Tell me: Do the women in your church wear hats? No? Are they allowed to speak and teach, ask questions?

astigafa,

The women in my church understand what Paul meant because they know their history.

Did you know that women in Jewish tradition didn't cover their heads with hats or scarves when they were in the synagogue? The men did, but not the women. Why, then, would Paul tell the Corinthian women to cover their heads? If you know anything about Corinth, you'd know that the women who worked at the pagan temples shaved their heads. Paul told the women to cover their heads, but he elaborated by saying a woman's hair is her covering (1 Cor 11:15). There's no biblical basis for women covering their heads with anything other than their hair.

Men and women sat on opposite sides of the aisle in ancient churches. Women, if they were confused, would shout across the aisle to their husbands or fathers. Imagine the chaos of several women shouting at the same time while somebody was trying to preach. If you have the context, 1 Cor. 14 has a very different meaning, doesn't it?

I can give more if you want it, but I think I've made my point. There's nothing antifundamentalist about what I just did, either. Many people who call themselves fundamentalist ignore the point of Scripture passages because they are either ignorant or subversive.

Exodus 22: 20 "Whoever sacr... (Below threshold)
cat:

Exodus 22: 20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.

Exodus: 31 5 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Numbers 25: 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the Lord's anger burned against them. 4 The Lord said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord's fierce anger may turn away from Israel." 5 So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor."

Numbers 21: 2 Then Israel made this vow to the Lord: "If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroy their cities." 3 The Lord listened to Israel's plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah.

Deuteronomy 7: 1 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations--the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you-- 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 13: 12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock.

Matthew 5: 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

"If the Islamic nuts keep ... (Below threshold)
Knightbrigade:

"If the Islamic nuts keep it up I think congress should declare a 'shoot an Islamist day". No permit required."
Scarpion for President !!
Sign me up oach!!!

JT:Sorry for th... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

JT:

Sorry for the language, or sorry but I won't behave myself? I find myself hoping for the former, but expecting the latter.

I'm sorry for using bad language in the presence of complete strangers, some of them ladies, and that gratuitously.

There's a lot of other things I could say here, but I'll just let this stand: What kind of person is Jay Tea? The kind of person who insults someone who apologizes.

And what sort of person is ... (Below threshold)

And what sort of person is astigafa? Someone who has an uncanny knack for taking comments out of context to suit his own agenda.

That's a bit of "tit for tat," asti. Not very nice, I'll admit, but sometimes you bring out my baser instincts.

As I said, your "sorry" could have been interpreted in two different, contradictory ways. You finally got around to clarifying it, and I'm glad you are acting a bit more civilly. It's quite welcome.

J.

It could be that most pe... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

It could be that most people have a sense of the spiritual realm, an inner witness of the things our eyes and our wisdom cannot discern.

Sensing things which eyes cannot see is often a sign of mental illness, too. So what? You have faith that the unseen and unsmelled is there, OK, that's "faith." It does not mean those things are there.

People and societies have certain psychological needs which are fulfilled by religion.

For example: dealing with, or avoiding, the knowledge of their death. Providing a sense of belonging, which also often means excluding others. Providing a rationale for life and motivation for daily acts. Imposing authority and enforcing rules on others. Helping people feel good about themselves, which again often means making them feel superior to others. Rationalizing people's bad acts. Religion provides all these things.

For example, the prohibition against eating pork contained in the Book of Deuteronomy is a "rule." At the time, it had a sound foundation because of the prevalence of trichinosis. But they didn't know about parasites and microorganisms then, so when people said "why?" the answer was "Because God said." Now Christians and many Jews and Muslims eat pork. Why? The danger of trichinosis is pretty much gone in the USA and Europe, at least. "God said" still cuts it with a lot of people who won't eat a ham sandwich though.

That's because humans are in the midst of a war between good and evil. The enemy of God uses the base nature of humans to subvert the truth.

If there is a struggle between Good and Evil, the Manichean idea, could it not be that religion is a tool of the devil? Something invented by man, claiming multiple and different "ultimate truths?" A hubris-filled hijacking of the name of God for nefarious ends? Almost all religions have had atrocities committed in their names. I'd bet that after the Conquistador's and Anglo massacres in the New World, colonialism in Africa and Asia often justified In Hoc Signo, Christianity is the #1 historical killer.

My favorite book of the Bible is Ezekiel. When I'm in church for a wedding, I'll pick it up for some idle pornographic reading, the story of the hot sisters Oholah and Oholibah. This just shows how religion can even fulfill the need for pornography:

Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. Ezek 23:19

If they made that into a movie! Of course, the Hindus and Buddhists did porn better, with their Kama Sutra and temple carvings.

A few other Bible passages, showing the essentially primitive and tribal mindset of the authors:

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations--the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Deut. 7:1

When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Deut. 21:10

Go for it, man!

Sensing things whi... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Sensing things which eyes cannot see is often a sign of mental illness, too. So what? You have faith that the unseen and unsmelled is there. OK, that's "faith." It does not mean those things are there .

So your point is that billions of people have mental illness, but if it's that common then it's the norm and perhaps those who don't sense the spiritual realm are mentally deficient, and just because some cannot sense these things doesn't mean they are not there.

People and societies have certain psychological needs which are fulfilled by religion.

That's an excuse with which atheists comfort themselves.

For example: dealing with, or avoiding, the knowledge of their death. Providing a sense of belonging, which also often means excluding others. Providing a rationale for life and motivation for daily acts. Imposing authority and enforcing rules on others. Helping people feel good about themselves, which again often means making them feel superior to others. Rationalizing people's bad acts. Religion provides all these things.

And so does atheist communism, which shows it's irrelevant in understanding religion.

If there is a struggle between Good and Evil, the Manichean idea, could it not be that religion is a tool of the devil?

The struggle predates Manichaeism, and yes the devil uses many forms of religion to counter the truth.

Almost all religions have had atrocities committed in their names.

Yes human nature is ugly and when not restrained we see the super atrocities of atheist communism, which again shows your point is irrelevant in understanding religion.

The Old Testament is a stabling block to many, but God's purpose was to bring into existence the nation of Israel through which God's anointed one would come.

Science itself is a form of religion in that it's founded on tenets of faith which cannot be proven. One of those is that the universe is reasonless and another is that the universe is governed only by natural laws. Science must, by definition, dismiss the spiritual aspect of religion in it's attempt to understand it. Blind to the existence of the spiritual realm, science wallows hopelessly in darkness seeking the truth it rejected from the start.

Read all posts..amazing..a ... (Below threshold)
ran:

Read all posts..amazing..a lot of circumlocutive BS. Having fought in Nam for almost 2 years, and yes, killing more NVA then I care to recall. I find it VERY difficult to believe they were trying to kill me because I was a Christian.Captured twice, one for 14 days..other for 29 days. NOT ONCE did anyone offer to cut my head off for their god! Comparing Islam with ANY kind of reasoning, is akin to comparing Apples with potatoes. Religion of piece my A$$.. next attack will be bad, very bad, and the talking heads will wring their hands, and fools like me will bleed.

MacLorry, we agree that rel... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

MacLorry, we agree that religion has aspects in common with Communism [and Fascism] in that they provide an over-arching belief system and sense of belonging to fulfill the needs of people who need those things.

Since it appears that many, if not most, people are incapable of developing a moral compass based on self-developed moral principles, religion may be necessary as a lesser evil to the amorality and nihilism which many people would adopt without some Holy Book telling them what rules to obey and threatening them with eternal torment if they don't comply.

Since it appears t... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Since it appears that many, if not most, people are incapable of developing a moral compass based on self-developed moral principles, religion may be necessary as a lesser evil to the amorality and nihilism which many people would adopt without some Holy Book telling them what rules to obey and threatening them with eternal torment if they don't comply.

I understand your need to rationalize religion, but all your efforts can't prove that Christianity is not just the plain and simple truth. Science has no answers concerning the afterlife and simply rejects the possibility as a matter of faith. Why follow a blind guide in such matters?

cat: I'm sure you have a p... (Below threshold)
Bobby:

cat: I'm sure you have a point, but I can't figure out what it is. There's other scripture that's even more violent than what you've recited, but I'm yet to see a Christian or Jew with a detached human head in their hand quoting that scripture as a justification for their actions.

Bobby, I think the point is... (Below threshold)

Bobby, I think the point is that all these scriptures are in the Bible, so why aren't we "fundies" following them? Frankly, it just shows cat's ignorance of Christianity in general and the New Testament in particular. I'm getting to the point anymore where I have to ignore such posts or my head will explode. However, since you inquired about it, I figured I'd help out.

all your efforts can't p... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

all your efforts can't prove that Christianity is not just the plain and simple truth. Science has no answers concerning the afterlife and simply rejects the possibility as a matter of faith. Why follow a blind guide in such matters?

And all your efforts could not prove that Buddhism or Bahaism or atheism or scientism is not just the simple truth.

If you were born in Riyadh, you'd be defending Islam with the same conviction as you do Christianity.

I just don't accept certain precepts of Christianity as being internally inconsistent with its professed idea of a just God. For example, the idea that one must be a Christian in order to enter heaven. It would be unacceptable in American principles of justice to "arbitrarily and capriciously" exclude from heaven millions of people who had the misfortune of having been born in the "wrong" place or time: for example, those born in Mexico prior to 1520 or so, or those born in Communist societies where religion ws suppressed.

Then there are all the little arbitrary rules, arbitrarily abandoned. The ban on eating pork is in Deuteronomy, on a par with the Ten Commandments. Why is it gone now as a religious rule? It looks like scientific empiricism is working its evilness there. When I was told as a teenager that masturbation would condemn me to hell if I did it, I began to think "this is a crock." All these other minor rules which are not universal among humanity (like not murdering) causing people to live their lives in fear of Hell.

I don't think science has an opinion on the afterlife, other than there is no empirical evidence to support the existance thereof. But if there is, is it Hell and Heaven and Purgatory and Limbo, or Nirvana or rebirth, or Valhalla, and which set of arbitrary religious rules, geographically determinative, do I have to follow in order to get into Heaven, Nirvana or Valhalla?

And all your effor... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
And all your efforts could not prove that Buddhism or Bahaism or atheism or scientism is not just the simple truth.

You're right. In fact you'll find in 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, the Apostle Paul shows that God cannot be found by human wisdom and explains why. The opposite is also true, in that human wisdom cannot prove God doesn't exist, and as I have explained, science is purposely blind to the possibility. The conclusion is that human intellect is powerless to give anyone an advantage or disadvantage in discerning the truth in such matters. The dumbest person you know is just as likely to reach the correct conclusion as the smartest person you know.

If you were born in Riyadh, you'd be defending Islam with the same conviction as you do Christianity.

I see you are still stuck on that accident of birth argument atheists find so compelling. Didn't you understand what I said about it before? The God of the Bible creates all souls and He controls which are born human, when, where, and to whom. There is no "accident" involved, and thus, the accident of birth argument is meaningless. Know this, that God requires more from those He has given more to. Someone born in communist China may never hear the full gospel, yet be saved just by what they have heard and their yearning to hear more. Someone born in the U.S. where the airwaves are full of preachers and Bibles are in abundance is going to be held to a higher standard. God also made provisions for people born in past ages, but that's getting in the meat of the Gospel, which you are not ready for.

Then there are all the little arbitrary rules, arbitrarily abandoned. The ban on eating pork is in Deuteronomy, on a par with the Ten Commandments.

You seem to know something about the Old Testament, but little about the New Testament. Galatians chapter 3 is a good primer on why your concerns can be set aside. Basically, all humans are condemned by the law, but Paul says in verse 13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us." Don't let the impossibility of keeping the law be a stumbling block to you.

I don't think science has an opinion on the afterlife, other than there is no empirical evidence to support the existance thereof.

Science is not neutral on the subject, it actively rejects the possibility because a universe controlled by a reasoning agent undermines the founding tenets upon which science rests. Evidence that points to a universe controlled by a reasoning agent is simply dismissed as non science. 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 demonstrates it's God's purpose to keep the intellectually proud from finding Him.

There is evidence for the Bible being true, but that's another post.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy