« Democrat Activist Gets Measly 10 Months in Jail for Producing Kiddie Porn | Main | The Cure For Negative Economic Reporting »

Good Theocracy, Bad Theocracy

Charles Johnson, the proprietor of the (in)famous "weblog" Little Green Footballs, must routinely defend himself against the slings and arrows of outrageous calumny. His useful cobbling together of press reports that demonstrate the dubious actions of Islamists is often portrayed as nothing more than a steady campaign of Islamophobia.

Johnson and his allies charge that scores of Muslims pine for an American caliphate; they implicitly urge the West to abandon mealy-mouthed multiculturalism for a strong stand against Islamic fascism. They site outrageous chutzpah--if you will--on the part of these radicals: Attempts to legalize Muslim "honor killings" in the West; pushes to promote Sharia law in Europe; &c.

To many of our friends on the political Left, this all smacks of anti-Muslim bigotry. Now, it is certainly reasonable to be concerned about anti-Muslim animus in the United States (although, interestingly enough, one sees far more signs of it in purportedly cosmopolitan Europe). But we, the crack young staff of "The Hatemonger's Quarterly," often feel as if this supposed lefty regard for Muslim fears is driven less by compassion than by a sentiment you might call "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

After all, in order to conclude that Johnson and fellow anti-Islamist "webloggers" aren't on to something, you must ignore all kinds of horrific actions and statements on the part of prominent Muslims. Anti-Semitism, of course, is rife in the Muslim community, and chalking this all up to the pesky existence of Israel is as pathetic as deeming Islamophobia a reasonable reaction to 9/11.

Still, many of our friends on the Left seem willing to ignore these matters and give the Islamists the benefit of the doubt. They're powerless people, they opine. Sure, they say some scary things, but they're entirely harmless.

We find this stance peculiar. After all, the same folks who go to great lengths to defend the likes of CAIR, the Muslim Council of Britain, and other dubious organizations are often the most vociferous castigators of the American Christian Right.

Just examine the titles of books on this topic. One ineluctably sees things such as American Theocracy, American Fascism, and the like. For some reason, the people who are so sanguine about Islamist intentions are paranoid about the Christian Right's. If you ask us, this is positively bizarre.

After all, the Christian Right--whether you agree with its proponents or not--essentially engages in a restorative project. Its spokespeople want to return to the ban on abortion in this country. Its promoters hope homosexual marriage will remain illegal, as it now is in the US. In essence, the Christian Right is reactionary, not radical.

Yet many of our lefty pals see the Christian Right as an army of modern-day Nazis. They'll excuse the most alarming radicalism on the part of Islamists but paint Christian nervousness about stem-cell research as tantamount to the second coming of Hitler.

The Islamists who pine for an American caliphate and Sharia law are harmless, benighted fellows deserving our sympathy and aid. The Christians who don't hunger for gay adoption are fascists who must be stopped at all costs.

Strange, huh?

(The crack young staff normally "weblog" over at "The Hatemonger's Quarterly," where they are currently picturing Ken Livingstone in a burqa.)


Comments (15)

It's not really strange if ... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

It's not really strange if you consider that the minority of Muslims who want to establish an American caliphate numbers in the thousands, if not hundreds, and have no influence in national or local governments.

On the other hand, the minority of Christians who agree with Dominionism and other Christian-dominated forms of government number in the millions, have great influence in the national government and dominate local government in some places. Their agenda includes not only the banning of abortion (an impossibility, IMO: you could not find a jury to convict in almost any jurisdiction) but also the imposition of fantastic canards like Creationism on science education, the banning of books, the outlawing of many forms of private sexual conduct between consenting adults including good n' ordinary fornication, the revival of blasphemy laws, "moral" censorship of movies and cable and broadcast TV, and restrictions on divorce.

Reactionaries can be radical: I don't get your difference there. The Islamists have the same agenda as the Christian fundies, they just don't have the numbers or political power to carry it out, so it's pretty sensible not to get too excited by their threat.

Excellent insight, young "C... (Below threshold)

Excellent insight, young "Crackers." I hadn't considered that angle before, and I rather like it.

Observer tends to overlook other considerations in his use of numbers as the ony yardstick. The Christians are pretty committed to working within the system (a byproduct of the "render unto Caesar" directive), and when they fail, they go back, mutter to each other, and promise "wait 'til next time." The Muslims tend to see the system as a tool of Satan and use far more direct and ruthless methods, raising the profile of their tactics far beyond their numbers.

In brief: the loathsome Pat Robertson and his ilk might be far closer to me, geographically, and far more numerous in this country, but I'm far more likely to be beheaded by a Muslim than someone who attended Liberty University and vacations in Heritage USA.

J.

On the other hand, the m... (Below threshold)
cirby:

On the other hand, the minority of Christians who agree with Dominionism and other Christian-dominated forms of government number in the millions,

Not really. Do you actually know very many Christians of the stronger sort? I know quite a few, from all sorts of branches of various churches (even some really nutty variants of Christianity), and can only think of one guy I met a couple of years ago who espoused such a belief, and he was clearly crazy under any standard.

The folks who follow the serious theocratic "let Jesus run things" creeds in the US might number in the thousands, and almost all of those are of the "yeah, it'll happen if we pray hard enough" strain.

The theocratic or "hard" dominionists are a tiny minority among Christians in the US, at most, even though some of the things they want to happen are fairly mainstream Christian thought once you take the strong coercive political part out of it.

I'm far more likely to b... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

I'm far more likely to be beheaded by a Muslim

Only if you travel to Iraq or Afghanistan. I have traveled to Iraq as a contractor, so I once asked an expert on Islamic law how to avoid beheading if I were ever taken captive. He said just keep repeating the Shahada, the Islamic profession of faith when they start rolling the videotape.

Of course, if that didn't work I'd be beheaded because I'm in their country and they see me as a representative of Godless materialism, Mammon, the Golden Calf, Sodom, etc.

In this country it's unlikely that you'll be beheaded by anyone, Muslim or Christian. It's more likely that what you can see on TV will be limited by Christianists, or some art project will be cut because of objections, or you might have to fight at your local school board to have evolution instead of Creationism taught, or they'll be taking books off of the shelves of the local public library. They might hassle your gay neighbors, too.

As for the numbers of nutty Dominionists, I'd just point to the sales of the "Left Behind" series, the viewership of the 700 Club and other fundie cable channels. It is a minority, but they are determined to impose their will on the rest of us hedonistic types.

"observer5" just joined the... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

"observer5" just joined the "club".

Yeah, I can sure see how Ch... (Below threshold)

Yeah, I can sure see how Christians are limiting what we can see on televsion.

Well it appears to me that ... (Below threshold)

Well it appears to me that where the fundie Muslims do outnumber the rest, things are far worse than they are where Christians do. For example: If fundie Christians ran things same-sex marriage would not be allowed or would simply not be recognized, but if fundie Muslims ran things you wouldn't even be fighting for same-sex marriage, you'd be dead. I think the proper form of punishment is to have a wall pushed down on you or something.

The difference is that with fundie Christians, you still have a democracy. There is still recourse - with fundie Muslims, you don't. Democracy is incompatible with Islam. The laws are clear. Steal something and you get your right hand cut off. Commit adultry and you get stoned to death (just for women). Denounce Islam and well, there's that death thing again. Etc...

Remember, Islam was not always the dominant religion in the Middle East. But it became so. What makes some people think it can't possibly happen here? All it takes is an unwillingness to fight.

As for the numbers of nu... (Below threshold)
cirby:

As for the numbers of nutty Dominionists, I'd just point to the sales of the "Left Behind" series, the viewership of the 700 Club and other fundie cable channels. It is a minority, but they are determined to impose their will on the rest of us hedonistic types.

You honestly think that the number of people who think the Rapture is going to happen seriously represents the number of people who wish to impose something like a Christian theocracy in the US?

And if you think the 700 Club represents a theocratic-leaning movement, you've never seen it (and neither have most of the folks who say the worst things about it). It's drivel, but it's fairly lightweight Christian drivel with a big dose of mainstream right-wing politics thrown in.

If you're going to make claims about the "hard" Christian Right, at least make a little effort to find out what they're actually saying, for once- or at least find out who they really are...

The Islamists who... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
The Islamists who pine for an American caliphate and Sharia law are harmless, benighted fellows deserving our sympathy and aid

One of two things is at work here or a combination of the two:

The first, liberals seeing terrorists as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The second, even though a lefty talking point is Republicans are cultivating fear by taking on terrorism, is the fact the left really, really is afraid of militant Islam, hence the cartoon saga where the lefties were all of a sudden sensitive to someone's religious beliefs.

Using the combination the left is able to garner bad press directed towards Republicans while they hype the appeasement solution from their fear.

The combination makes them "liars and cowards". But the catchall word is "traitors".

Yep, enjoy your $1 dollar minimum wage raise because that is all you got for electing this bunch into power.

s for the numbers ... (Below threshold)
s for the numbers of nutty Dominionists, I'd just point to the sales of the "Left Behind" series, the viewership of the 700 Club and other fundie cable channels.

Most "nutty Dominionists" think that the Left Behind series is a silly, peurile excuse for Christianity and they also have nothing but contempt for the 700 Club and other fundie cable channels, of which very few viewers would even know what a "domininist" is, let alone actually be one.

Of course, you wouldn't have known this because you're ignorant.

Oh boy ! when was the last ... (Below threshold)
jainphx:

Oh boy ! when was the last time you were threatened with beheading for not being a believer in Christ.Tell me when they ever ordered their followers to do anything even remotely on a par with Islam.When did anyone from the religious community(Christian) order Jihad.Show me the last person beheaded or even jailed for nonbelief.You people should not let your ignorance show so completely.Christ taught to turn the other cheek,to forgive, treat yor enemy as your friend,which of these teaching resembles Islamic teaching.You ought to get a clue.

In this country it's unl... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

In this country it's unlikely that you'll be beheaded by anyone, Muslim or Christian. It's more likely that what you can see on TV will be limited by Christianists, or some art project will be cut because of objections, or you might have to fight at your local school board to have evolution instead of Creationism taught, or they'll be taking books off of the shelves of the local public library. They might hassle your gay neighbors, too.

Missed CAIR griping about such shocking things as "24" having a terrorist suspect who was --- *gasp* MUSLIM?

I know, A Muslim terrorist? That's some zany fiction.

As for the numbers of nutty Dominionists, I'd just point to the sales of the "Left Behind" series, the viewership of the 700 Club and other fundie cable channels. It is a minority, but they are determined to impose their will on the rest of us hedonistic types.

So people like crap books and bad TV shows? Michael Moore sells well and gets decent audiences for his movies. I don't view it as the end of the world.
-=Mike

"What makes some people thi... (Below threshold)
Knightbrigade:

"What makes some people think it can't possibly happen here? All it takes is an unwillingness to fight."

Make NO mistake, there is an undercurrent ready to fight. This country will cease to exist before it would EVER be over ruled by Muslims.


My inaugural address at the... (Below threshold)

My inaugural address at the Great White Throne Judgment of the Dead, after I have raptured out billions!
Read My Inaugural Address
My Site=http://www.angelfire.com/crazy/spaceman

If anyone is still checking... (Below threshold)

If anyone is still checking this comment thread... just one point I'd like to make about the horrible Christianist sorts who want to dominate over everyone and force them to behave.

The separation of church and state was not created as a way to separate the religious from the secular... religion was assumed. It was created expressly to reassure minority Christian denominations that some other Christian group was not going to be able to get power over them.

Think about this and what it means to the "Impending Theocracy" "Agressive Christianist" belief set...

It might seem (and I've heard people suggest this, I think they were nuts) that this is permission to make this a "Christian" nation...

If you think so you're missing something very very important...

These supposed "Christianists" who want to dominate others? Why do you (or anyone) think that other *Christians* would put up with being ruled in their religion? The most fervent, the most fundamentalist, Christian groups won't even accept rule from a central church council of their own denomination. With a *very* few exceptions the churches that typify a centralized authority are the most liberal churches.

The best answer to worry over the Impending Theocracy (it deserves capitals, I think) is probably some version of "Oh, sure, the Baptists are going to let some Lutheran tell them what to do!" Or vice versa... (Heck, when I was a kid it was a major concession to admit that the Baptists might not be going to hell.)




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy