"...demonstrated a lack of class..."

And I quote the VP:

"Go f**k yourself."

Did you write about that one?

Just because he was so succinctly able to describe your favorite activity, jp2, is no reason to post about it.

jp, if you can't see the difference between the two, then there's really no point in further discussion.

Clearly, Webb showed a lack of respect to President Bush on this occasion. For some reason some on the left are of the opinion that the President was wrong when he responded to Webb's answer by saying that was not what he asked. The President took the time to remember that Webb had a son serving in Iraq and Webb took the opportunity to make a self-serving statement instead of politely responding to the question that was asked. The President has always shown a lot of respect for our men and women in uniform but he does a lot of it in private (face to face meetings with the families of the fallen, visits to Walter Reed, etc.) - he is not looking for publicity because he respects those who he calls upon. Webb's behavior was uncalled for - he knows damned well that the President knows what his feelings are about the war but he was invited to the White House by the President and as such he has an obligation to act with the required amount of respect - not go to the media and say he wanted to slug the President after their exchange. Is it me or have their been more allegedly responsible adults in public office saying they wanted to harm President Bush? First it was Senator Landrieu and now Jim Webb and we won't even go into the assassination dreams of the far, far left...

The far, far left? The same people mailing suspicious powder to the NY Times and Democratic politicians? The same far, far left that murdered American citizens in Oklahoma City? Please describe one thing the far, far left has done that has made your life worse, Delta OP.

Jim Webb's opinion of President Bush mirrors that of most Americans, and he has the cajones not to be a phony about it. It's refreshing to have an individual elected to office who doesn't communicate solely in mealy-mouthed political speak.

Oh, and you people should probably stop referring to George Allen as a senator, 'cause he's not. He's a racist piece of garbage with no political future whatsoever.

Well stupid how do you think the party of fraud pulled that one off? Oh ya , the stupid lazy democrat Media. The Democrat party was made for Idiots who can't think for themselves, are lazy and would rather lie than actually work for a living.

"Please describe one thing the far, far left has done that has made your life worse"

LIE OUT THEIR ASS!

If Webb so fervently dislikes the President, then why did he accept an invitation to the White House Christmas party?

Rob, genius, how have those "lies" made your life worse? Does the kid with a septum piercing and an "Anarchy Rulez!!!" t-shirt really affect you? And are you saying that a majority of Americans are lazy idiots who can't think for themselves? Why do you hate America, Rob? The far right are the only Americans that pose a threat to the nation, Rob. They're the ones who are okay with using violence to further their xenophobic agenda, so howzabout you think a little harder before soiling the internet with your lunatic outrage.

Webb made it clear during the campaign that he does not want his son to be a topic of discussion. He had the integrity not to use him as political leverage, and he didn't want his opponents using him as leverage either. He still feels the same way. Had Bush not mentioned his son, Webb would not have been so terse with him.

And Dick Cheney telling Murphy to go fuck himself IS worse, as it's non-substantive and purely vulgar. Webb was making a point--as a father, he would like his child to be removed from harm's way, whereas Bush is still all about stayin' the course, casualties be damned.

As far as I'm concerned, Jim Webb is my new favorite senator. There's a culture in Washington which dictates that these guys (and gals) talk in niceties when ACTUALLY speaking to one another face to face. So much for standing up for your personal conviction.

Myself, I'm from the East coast. You're respected more for having an opinion and voicing it rather than egg-shelling around it or sitting on a fence. Those senators who conclude that it's unheard of to call someone like the President a "liar" are so far up their own asses they've forgotten what this process is supposed to be about.

Bush deserves no respect, yet he demands it. If he's really shocked when someone like Webb expresses what the entire country is feeling (except for those in fantasy land on this blog) than he's in a bubble that deserves to be burst.

His arrogance mirrors his dad's - a man who felt his position was his birthright and appeared pissed off when asked "real" questions by those not content with kissing up to him (just one example - watch his testy response to Tabitha Soren's questions during his train campaign from 1992).

This arrogant ass we have in office now should be prodded with these kinds of questions regularly. It's what the American people are looking for - the real face behind his frat-boy smile. Anyone who thinks we should pussy-foot around our Commander in Chief and give him respect simply because he holds office should move to North Korea. You don't understand your duty as a real American.

And, so as not to leave any room for interpretation, Webb was doing just that - speaking frankly and not playing nice. Call him what you will, he was right for what he did and always wiill be.

And Bush was not sincere. The man doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Oh, and you people should probably stop referring to George Allen as a senator, 'cause he's not. He's a racist piece of garbage with no political future whatsoever.

Domino: On that basis may I and my people also stop referring to Robert Byrd (D-KKK) as a senator?

Domino, it was Leahy that Cheney told that to. Who's Murphy? Leahy, that bastion of civil discourse. Leahy, the guy who would keep a secret to his grave. Leahy .... oh nevermind.

Yea, Cheney was stupid for saying that, and Webb is wrong too.

However, your comment: "Webb made it clear during the campaign that he does not want his son to be a topic of discussion. He had the integrity not to use him as political leverage, and he didn't want his opponents using him as leverage either." This was not a "topic of discussion" using Webb's son during a campaign moment. It was a Christmas party and a sincere inquiry by the President as to how Webb's son was; not a "political leverage" moment. Then Webb goes on later to the media about how he wanted to slug him? It seems to me that Webb has indeed dragged his son into the public arena.

If you were honest, you'd admit that Webb's lack of civility is also wrong. But these are people, just like us and they get testy too. They're all guilty of using colorful language. All I'd point out is the events that lead up to each encounter has some bearing on it. Cheney's outburst was immediately following a verbal sparring over accusations about Halliburton among other things. Webb's remark was immediately following a simple question as to his son's well being at a Christmas party. I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

Domino,

VP cheney did not tell Murphy to F himself, he told Sen Leahy. Being one of the Senator's constituents, I agree with him. Name one thing the far left that has made my life worse.. Let's see maybe facism on college campuses, limiting my freedom of speech, freedom of expresion, freedom to own a gun, limiting my freedom of opportunity via affirmative action, relased a plaque of scum bag politicians (Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, Dodd, Clinton, etc) on the nation, threatened to take away my home to give to another developer. Let's not forget unfettered access to infanticide. Shall I go on?

As much as I loathe the Republicans, I hate the democrats even more! I am sick of them telling me how open minded and tolerant they are as long as I agree with their lopsided agenda. Once I disagree, I am a racist, mysoginest, name you phobia devil.

I think the theme of the piece is correct in that Jim Webb saying he wanted his son home from Iraq is non-news. What father wouldn't what their son home from a war zone? Conservatives want the troops home as well, but in a way that we don't have to send a future generation back to finish the job.

Yes, the American electorate voted to get out of Iraq, but they did that based on the promises of the Democrates who are now backtracking in the face of reality. The Democrats find themselves in the quagmire they helped create to win back Congress and now their strategy is to claim nothing can be done in Iraq. That strategy may sound good to the loyal members of the "can do anything" party, but it may not sit well with the American electorate in 08. Only fools think that everyone who voted for a Democrat in 06 is a loyal Democrat. The Democrats need to find real solutions or their turn in power will be real short.

Maybe Webb wants his son home so that he can put his boy's penis in his mouth.

Again.

And Dick Cheney telling Murphy to go fuck himself IS worse, as it's non-substantive and purely vulgar. Webb was making a point--as a father, he would like his child to be removed from harm's way, whereas Bush is still all about stayin' the course, casualties be damned.

Isn't this typical? Liberals know it all- it's the facts they can't get right.

Yea, Cheney was stupid for saying that

I don't agree. Leahy has assaulted Cheney personally in a non-stop fashion for six years. Leahy, who cannot be trusted with classified information, got the least of what he deserves. I would have loved to see Cheney knock Leahy on his ass.

Yeah, Webb is a freaking genius. Picking a tiff with your son's boss is right down his alley.

I pity the Commonwealth of Virginia for the next 6 years with this loose cannon in D.C.

hansel2 - your quote:
"And Bush was not sincere. The man doesn't know the meaning of the word."

What evidence do you have of this?

Bush showed some class. Jim Webb showed he does not have any. What a shocker.

Okay, time to correct the record and explain why Bush is the schmuck, not Webb.

Webb was attending a traditional reception for new Senators, not a "Christmas Party". It was an opportunity for Webb to meet his new colleagues and he had every right to attend. He wasn't planning a confrontation.

Next, Webb is not just a guy with a kid fighting in Iraq, although he sure as heck is the only Senator with one there. He was a strong critic of the decision to go to war, calling it a "strategic blunder of historic proportions". Much of his campaign attacked the incompetence of the Bush administration in running the war. Bush is well aware that Webb holds him responsible for the war.

At the dinner that night Webb did not participate in the fake nicey nice receiving line and photo op where guests are given photos of themselves with the President for their ego walls. Webb was just hanging out. Bush approached him, they shook hands, and Webb introduced Bush to his wife. Bush then said "how's your boy?" (a rather familiar usage for a guy talking to his political enemy, but whatever). Webb responded "I'd like them out of Iraq, Mr. President." Not strident, not shouting, not obscene, and using the honorific. Bush replied "that's not what I asked. How's your boy?" This is where he a) dropped the facade that this was just one caring parent talking to another; and b)attempted to assert dominion over Webb by virtually demanding that he answer the question. No one asserts dominion over Webb. He then replied "that's between me and my boy, Mr. President," and walked away. In this part of the exchange Webb not only refused to kow-tow, but complied with the requirements of civility in stating his point quietly, without stridency, and using the honorific. He is an independent, free American citizen who understands he has the right not to discuss his personal life or family members if he does not want to.

What one poster said was true. Webb never discusses his son. He refused to put him in commercials. He believes discussing his son is like saying his problems are more important than those of other military parents, and it may put his son in danger by focusing attention on him. What was Webb supposed to say about his son to Bush "I'm worried, Mr. President, he's being shot at all the time," or "glad that when I hear casualty reports they're some other parents' kid and not mine?" He's not going to say that he's fine, because he's not, he's in an unnecessary war started by the guy Webb is talking to.

Jim Webb is a sincere, blunt, no-nonsense, and serious man who does not gladhand and will not be pushed around by anyone. However, he's not so hardcore that he won't work with others. He has already approached the Democratic leadership with his proposed legislation for a new GI Bill and is willing to have it go forward without his name on it if that will help. How many politicians would do the same? He is probably the best friend the military and veterans will ever have in the Senate, bar none, and his plain-speaking style will draw comparisons to Truman. I'm proud he's Virginia's new senator.

Webb sounds like a whimpy ass coward to me. (then of coarse he is a democrat).
carla--does he also sing in the choir?
domino--you still are a lowlife piece of scum ( re-sniper thread)

Carla, well of course Webb is "an independent, free American citizen.... a blunt, serious man who does not glad hand...". Frankly, I think one can easily criticize the President for many things but my impression (from afar) is that he has been a quite civil individual to many folks who did not deserve that treatment from him. However, I think Webb was rude. The qualities you describe him as having could serve him very well as a senator. But, they do not provide a justification for rudeness. Unfortunately, the armed forces today are a volunteer organization. Webb's son is an adult and is in the armed forces voluntarily.

jhow66 wants to call Webb a "whimpy ass coward"?

Really, jhow, you don't know much about the man, do you? At the Naval Academy Jim Webb was a boxer and later graduated first in his Marine Combat training class of 248. A gifted infantry officer, he is one of the most highly decorated heroes of the Vietnam war: Navy Cross, Silver Star, 2 Purple Hearts, 2 Bronze Stars. He once threw himself in front of a live grenade while pushing one of his Marines out of harm's way. It was the second grenade to hit him that day. As Reagan's Navy Secretary he took on Frank Carlucci and tried to save the 600 ship Navy, resigning when he was overruled. He went to Beirut and made an Emmy winning documentary about the Marines there. He wrote THE classic novel of the Vietnam War, "Fields of Fire". He was an embedded journalist in Afghanistan. He wrote and co-produced the movie "Rules of Engagement." He has traveled widely around the world, particularly Southeast Asia, and speaks Vietnamese fluently.

Anyone who's followed Webb's career knows he fears no man. Having become a Republican during the Carter years, after years of discomfort over Republican fiscal policies and then horror at the decision to go into Iraq, he returned to the Democratic party as one of the new breed of "Blue Dog Dems". He counts as friends John McCain, Chuck Hagel, John Warner, and Pat Buchanan. He is courageous, obstinate, blunt, and authentic. Next to him Bush is a craven little worm.

Oh, and I don't think he sings in a choir, but what's it to you? Maybe you'd like to get up in his face and say something about it, but I sure as hell wouldn't.

Carla,
I wish I could articulate my position half as well as you do. During the 06 election cycle I would stop in at wizbang and try to correct right wing talking point by using facts, while trying to stay away from name calling. As a part-time troll I could really get under the right wing skin by just posting a link to an article that would deflate a wingnut misconception. Some days the outright lies and half truths that pass off as fact here are astonishing. Keep up the good work.

carla --but he is not "man" enough to treat the President of the USA as such--in my book he is a coward for that no matter what he has done before--and yes I would tell him so to his face.

Uhhh live@9 do you sing in the choir also--no link?

What? Karen Carpenter was thin?

Wow, every time I see this story retold by those on the right, they omit Bush's obnoxious response, and portray Webb as a boor. Carla got it right. Bush asked (and don't pretend it was coming from "concern"; it was just perfunctory smalltalk), and Webb answered respectfully. Because it wasn't a cowardly "he's fine", Bush got testy. You may not care, and you may cheer Bush on in this behavior, but don't pretend it was anything other than it was.

It looks like the crack 12-year old staff of THQ can lie like the best of them.

Webb has a right to be grouchy around Bush. He followed the family tradition of service in the military and earned the Navy Cross, Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars and the Purple Heart while Bush was getting into the National Guard and partying so heartily that he couldn't take his flight physical or get promoted to O-3.

Webb's son is in Al-Anbar province, a very bad place, in the "Fiasco," following that same tradition of serving in combat, while Jenna and Barb were following their family tradition of partying heartily.

The other thing is, it shows how "Honor Our Veterans" and "Support Our Troops" is abandoned when it comes to promoting some right-wing theme.

When brave Americans are dying and being maimed for life in the Bush-led fiasco in Iraq, civility and politeness are overrated.

Sure, Bush is the "boss" of Webb's son. But it's also true that Webb and his son, like the rest of us citizens, are the "boss" of Bush, however much Bush has pretensions of being the royal "Decider."

If I were Webb, I'd be concerned that the "Decider" might order a particularly dangerous mission for Webb the younger's unit.

Webb in 2008.

Carla: Most of what you've imparted is based on an opinion you have of Bush. And your glowing endorsement of Webb does not include the kind of politics he employed during the campaign, and which he got back in return; among other things. But if you're happy with him, that's great. And I don't mean that snidely.

From someone with a differing opinion of the parties involved, the whole exchange could be construed as Webb being snide (just because he wasn't 'strident' or 'shouting' doesn't mean he couldn't have meant it rudely) and Bush letting him know that he wasn't interested in a confrontation; that he only asked out of politeness. Simple politeness in return is never a bad thing.

I was under the impression it was a "holiday" gathering, so my bad there.

Nevertheless, none of us was there. We don't know who meant or did not mean what. What I found to be classless is that Webb thought it okay to state later that he felt like slugging Bush. Well, if he's that irascible he might be in the wrong profession. Were I a politician, that is not something I would thoughtlessly impart to the press. It made him sound more like a hothead than 'serious' and 'no-nonsense'.

If these politicians are shocked at the lack of civility from Americans in everyday political discussion, they need only look at the example they set.

For a local political assessment of Webb's conduct, I recommend you read the following by Jeff Shapiro who writes political commentary for the Richmond Times-Dispatch. This gives a Virginia perspective on the consequences for Webb: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Common%2FMGArticle%2FPrintVersion&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191977661&image=timesdispatch80x60.gif&oasDN=timesdispatch.com&oasPN=%21editorials%21commentary

Worth repeating:

"carla --but he is not "man" enough to treat the President of the USA as such--in my book he is a coward for that no matter what he has done before--and yes I would tell him so to his face.

Posted by: jhow66..."

Carla, "there you go again..." No need to ramble about past accolades; present boorish behaviour is not justified by all that woohooing. "...you do protest too much..."