« Are the Democrats Holding Secret Meetings with Hamas? | Main | Must be something in the water... »

Talking out of their Hamas

Much of the blogosphere is abuzz with reports that certain unnamed Democratic leaders have been meeting quietly with leaders of Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist group that currently controls the Palestinian Authority. I find myself a smidgen skeptical.

First of all, Hamas is, officially, a terrorist organization. They've been on that list ever since the list was started. Consequently, any official contact with them is a violation of federal law.

Not that's stopped Democrats before.

The Logan Act specifically makes it illegal for any private citizen holding negotiations with foreign governments. It's never been enforced, but it's on the books -- and I think that it's a good law.

In the 1970s, anti-war activists travelled to Paris and met with Vietnamese government officials to negotiate an end to the war. Among them was John F. Kerry, future US senator and presidential nominee. At the time, according to Kerry's official biography, he was a commissioned officer in the United States Naval Reserve, making his presence an even more serious offense.

During the 1980s, the United States was less than friendly to the Sandanista government of Nicaragua. Still, several key Democratic lawmakers went to Nicaragua and met with their leaders to discuss ending our support for the Contra rebels.

Also during the 1980s, an American naval pilot was shot down over Lebanon while bombing Syrian positions. He was taken back to Syria, and Jesse Jackson went to President Assad and personally secured the release of Lt. Robert Goodman.

So, if the Logan Act doesn't count as a deterrent, why don't I think that the Democrats met with Hamas?

For several reasons. First, I like to think that there are still some boundaries the Democrats won't cross -- either out of principle or out of self-preservation. For both reasons, meeting with an unabashed terrorist group is just a bad idea.

Secondly, the sole source on this so far is Hamas itself. I don't give them that kind of credibility. Remember, these are the same people who said that George W. Bush had said that "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

I don't care what you think of Bush and his religious beliefs or his intellect. No one can seriously think that Bush would use such language while meeting with Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas.

It reminded me of a quote from "The 776 Stupidest Things Ever Said." A politician (I think it was a New Hampshirite) once asked "Why can't the Moslems and Jews settle their differences like good Christians?"

Abbas is a Muslim. Sharon was the leader of the Jewish nation. Neither would be overly inclined to put a great deal of credence in the proclamations of the Christian god.

And Bush has shown a bit of sensitivity to other faiths besides his own in the past.

The underlying principle is simple: Hamas is a terrorist organization. They started out as such, and have remained such at their core. They have expanded into a political and social service organization as well, but that's just gilding the turd at the core. They remain absolutely committed to their goal: the extermination of the state of Israel and its replacement with an Islamist state. Their participation in the electoral processes and good social works are simply tactics towards achieving those goals. And at every opportunity to renounce terrorism and move towards peaceful measures, they reject them firmly, absolutely, and unrepentantly.

To believe differently, to act based on those beliefs, is idiotic at best and suicidal at worst. And I don't think that the Democrats currently holding high office are that bad.


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Talking out of their Hamas:

» Blog-o-Fascists linked with Open Thread

Comments (35)

I need more who, what, wher... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:

I need more who, what, where, why and when before I completely jump on board with this.

However, based on Democrat actions in the past, I think it is fair to keep an eye on this story. We should also be aware of any Democrats sporting green hats or "Death to America" t-shirts. That would help narrow the suspects down.

Does it make any difference... (Below threshold)
USMC Pilot:

Does it make any difference?

Jane Fonda went to Hanio and continued to star in movies.

John Kerry committed acts that were considered treasonous by some and became a US Senator.

If some politician is dealing with Hamas, one side will scream treason and the other will proclaim them to be heros. Nothing changes!

The two major political par... (Below threshold)
USMC Pilot:

The two major political parties hate each other so much they remind me more of Sunni vs Shite, than two organizations trying to protect and serve a democracy.

To futher illustrate:... (Below threshold)
USMC Pilot:

To futher illustrate:

Eighty percent of the comments made here are aimed at personal or political party attacks, as opposed to logical arguments, aimed at supporting a political point of view.

Couldn't agree more, USMC.<... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Couldn't agree more, USMC.

BTW, usually barney or Lee are the first to post. Is there an on-line KOS meeting going on?

If some politicia... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
If some politician is dealing with Hamas, one side will scream treason and the other will proclaim them to be heros. Nothing changes

I was thinking the same thing too, however, delivery of the news has changed.

For example I believe Hastings and Murtha would have been in leadership positions but the alternative media brought attention to them. The fake AP stories finally made it to some MSM outlets because of the buzz on the blogs. Etc, etc, etc......

It just seems harder to sweep under the rug these days. Plus there is the issue of law in this case too.

The comments here demonizin... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

The comments here demonizing Democrats (based on very sketchy information from Jay Tea) are ironic considering that the very same people idolize Ronald Reagan - the architect of the Iran Contra Affair. Remember that one? If you don't, it was all about selling arms to our huge enemy Iran. Far, far worse than this supposed meeting with Hamas.

You lost on November 11th - stop whining like children and move on with your lives. The hypocrisy of the "right" is never-endiing.

The comments here... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
The comments here demonizing Democrats (based on very sketchy information from Jay Tea) are ironic considering that the very same people idolize Ronald Reagan - the architect of the Iran Contra Affair

Thanks for the reminder because the biggest thing that comes to mind was Democrats refusal to help stop the spread of communism even in our own hemisphere.

The actions of Democrats of late seem to parallel those actions of Democrats in the 1980's.

Despite the strong opposition of the Reagan administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted legislation, known as the Boland amendments, that prohibited the Defense Dept., the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or any other government agency from providing military aid to the contras from Dec., 1983, to Sept., 1985. Link
maggie - stop bleeting like... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

maggie - stop bleeting like a Kos sheep and actually read what Jay wrote. 1) He's skeptical of the claim against Democrats and 2) he writes "And I don't think that the Democrats currently holding high office are that bad."

THAT'S what you consider "whining like children"?? Good grief.

"Remember, these are the sa... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Remember, these are the same people who said that George W. Bush had said that "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

I don't care what you think of Bush and his religious beliefs or his intellect. No one can seriously think that Bush would use such language while meeting with Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas. "


Well, Jay, no serious person can seriously think that; but the usual Lefty trolls have sure been pushing exactly that false meme:

"#1 Suggestion, elect competent leadership that will not push our country to war because Jesus told him to.
Posted by: BarneyG2000 at December 6, 2006 12:18 PM


Care to back that up with a link
Bush: God told me to invade Iraq
But what's the point? You will now make ad hominem attacks on the source, and probably call Bob Woodward a communist.
Posted by: Brian at December 6, 2006 04:58 PM


President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.
George Bush believes he is on a mission from God, according to the politician Nabil Shaath. Photograph: Charles Dharapak/AP


Posted by: waddayknow at December 6, 2006 05:49 PM


Whaddayknow's link - corrected.
Posted by: Lee at December 6, 2006 06:29 PM"

USMC Pilot is correct. Thi... (Below threshold)
SurfingKC:

USMC Pilot is correct. This used to be a place to post a quick comment and read the points of view from others. In the past few months, it has turned into just another online shouting match. Some from the left have started using it as a place for name calling and shout downs. It's a shame!

I can believe the meetings ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I can believe the meetings took place, and I suspect that the Republicans would do the same in the same situation.

I also believe that GWB said that God told him to strike back in the middle east. He may have been lying when he said it but I believe he said it. It's the kind of thing Bush would say to win points with his constituency.

I also KNOW FOR A FACT that if the UPI story cited by Jay had reported that it was Republicans instead of Democrats meeting with Hamas, the wingnuts on Wizbang would be yammering about the UPI lying and using unnamed sources to smear the Republicans.

You Wiznut loonies crack me up. I picture 14 year olds who blabber way while trying to argue with adults, not realizing the logic pretzels they create with their arguments.

"I also KNOW FOR A FACT ... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"I also KNOW FOR A FACT that if the UPI story cited by Jay had reported that it was Republicans instead of Democrats meeting with Hamas, the wingnuts on Wizbang would be yammering about the UPI lying and using unnamed sources to smear the Republicans."

Heh. Poor baby. But when the AP makes fake stories that harm the war effort, you think it's up to the military to prove them wrong.

You can dish it out but you can't take it. Us non-Lefties think that it is up to the accuser to prove their story, whether it hurts our position or not. You trolls like unsubstantiated stories when it hurts the Reps, but not when it hurts Dems.

The fact that one doesn't i... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

The fact that one doesn't instantly discount Democrats meeting secretly with terrorists is all too illustrative of whats wrong with the Democrats.

As for giving Hamas money, that is so wrong it should not even need to be discussed.

As for Iran-Contra, my beef with Mr. Reagan regarding that was he was too mushy about it. He should have come out swinging against the Democrats at the time saying only communist would be against such a devious scheme. Arming two SOB's intent on killing each other (and no friends of ours) while generating a profit to help arm a group of friends kill a third SOB is simply brilliant. What Democrats were upset about wasn't the arming of the Iranians but rather using the proceeds to arm the Contras against their brother communists the Sandinista's.

Only officials could prove ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Only officials could prove that Hussein wasn't a polici officer, wiznut.

Thanks for providing a quick example, Nes. You are one of the more twisted of the puzzle-thinkers around here. The AP wasn't in a position to prove who Hussein was, but the military made the claim he wasn't a police officer, and was in the easy position to prove that by compelling the Iraqi Ministry of Information to make an official statement to that fact, which is exactly what happened.

Thanks, and how old are you Nessie? Was I correct when I wrote 15 years old?

And exactly how does this hurt "Dems" - I think when you have a moron in the White House who refuses to apply diplomatic means to resolve America's conflicts that diplomats will rise from the crowd to fill the void, or haven't you noticed that the American people don't want Republicans running the show anymore?

Every day we see more examples of the conservatives being shoved further out the door of American politics. This is just anther example. I can't imagine why - I've learned to love you Wiznuts. You are so easy to slap around.

Have you noticed that you c... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Have you noticed that you can tell it is old "pucker puss" (lee lee) that is posting by just the 1st word or 2 no matter how long it is. The above post is a perfect example. He must have a "ditto" key on his keyboard.

Every day we see more e... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Every day we see more examples of the conservatives being shoved further out the door of American politics. This is just anther example. I can't imagine why - I've learned to love you Wiznuts. You are so easy to slap around.

You say that, but the left's whining and actions and hysteria say the left still believes otherwise.

Ouch.


"Only officials could prove... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Only officials could prove that Hussein wasn't a polici officer, wiznut. "

Heh. So it was up to 'officials' to prove a negative?

Shouldn't the AP be able to prove a postitive; that he was indeed an officer? Shouldn't they be able to back up their claim?

Oh yeah and I forgot to tel... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Oh yeah and I forgot to tell you that old "pucker puss" (lee lee) is the #1 kos kiddie and old "screw them" gives him which "ditto" key to push each day.

USMC Pilot:<blockquo... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

USMC Pilot:


To futher illustrate:

Eighty percent of the comments made here are aimed at personal or political party attacks, as opposed to logical arguments, aimed at supporting a political point of view.

Amen. A quick perusal of this thread illustrates the point well. The level of debate, and I'm using the term loosely, has degenerated to a 'professional' wrestling level.

It's the kind of thing ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

It's the kind of thing Bush would say to win points with his constituency -Lee

Lee, even for you, this is logically impaired.
If this is the case, why has he not said it to his constituency? Or is your implication that Hamas is his constituency?

Either way, you prove you are projecting (again) when you say:
I picture 14 year olds who blabber way while trying to argue with adults, not realizing the logic pretzels they create with their arguments.

But God bless you, you put a smile on my face every day.

"Heh. So it was up to 'o... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Heh. So it was up to 'officials' to prove a negative?"

You say those words but it is obvious you have no concept of their meaning, Nessie.

"Shouldn't the AP be able to prove a postitive; that he was indeed an officer? Shouldn't they be able to back up their claim?"

No, the AP isn't in a position to prove anything. All they can do is report. The definitive source to prove or disprove Hussein's status is an official Iraqi source. Only the Iraqi government could report on Hussein's official staus on the poiice force - and that's exactly what happened, as was reported by the press.

I'm bored with your brain damage, Nes. Your failure to grasp the obvious has grown old. Quit huffing paint thinner, dude.

During the Iranian hostage... (Below threshold)

During the Iranian hostage crisis Phill Agee (a notorious CIA turncoat) had his US passport revoked because he attempted to negotiate the release of the US diplomats held by the Iranians. This was during the the Carter Administration. I only have this somewhat personal knowledge of Mr. Agee because he attended Notre Dame with my father who kept in touch with his old friend; despite Agee's disgraceful anti-US activities.

Me thinks Lee dost protest ... (Below threshold)

Me thinks Lee dost protest too much... I mean, if he was so sure in the power of the Democratic party, and if he was so convinced that the Republican party was "on its way out"... why would he keep trumpeting it at every chance he gets?

It sounds to me like he is more trying to convince himself than anyone else.

As for the news reports, I, too, have a hard time believing that the Democratic party would do something this inordinately stupid. It would immediately be decried as treasonous, and those involved would be in some monstrously deep doo-doo almost immediately. While I do not give the Democracts credit for an overabundance of intelligence, I have a hard time believing that anyone could be so stupid as to underhandedly, and under-the-table-edly, meet with a terrorist organization to broker peace, when laws, the American public, and just about everything else is against it.

Have you noticed that yo... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Have you noticed that you can tell it is old "pucker puss" (lee lee) that is posting by just the 1st word or 2 no matter how long it is.

Have you noticed that you can tell it is old jhow66 posting by the perpetually bad grammar and stench of monkey piss coming from the keyboard?

Have some more celery, bonzo.

lol!... (Below threshold)
Lee:

lol!

Boy Lee, your 12:04 PM was ... (Below threshold)

Boy Lee, your 12:04 PM was really twisted considering all the other comments you've made regarding that incident.

"No, the AP isn't in a position to prove anything. All they can do is report. The definitive source to prove or disprove Hussein's status is an official Iraqi source. Only the Iraqi government could report on Hussein's official staus on the poiice force -..."

Dude! How does the Iraqi government report on the "official status" of someone who doesn't exist? They "reported" that they have no such person on record.

You're the one who doesn't know the meaning of proving a negative.

Just like the whole Bush TANG memos. We heard of a "Lucy Ramirez" who was the initial source of the memos and then we're told to prove she doesn't exist. THAT, Lee, is what it is to expect someone to prove a negative.

That you then concede that the Iraqis claimed there was no such person does not indicate proving a negative. It's merely stating that they have no knowledge of said person.

I don't expect you to understand any of this so why I waste my time is beyond me.

"Dude! How does the Iraq... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Dude! How does the Iraqi government report on the "official status" of someone who doesn't exist? They "reported" that they have no such person on record."

No, they reported that he wasn't on the approved list of Iraqi Ministry of Information sources. Whether he was a police captain, or not, could only be confirmed by the Iraqi government -- like I said.

Feel free to not waste your time, or mine, with me any longer Oyster. Your BS is just wasting bandwidth...

Jay, about your comment:</p... (Below threshold)
Patriot's Game:

Jay, about your comment:

"First of all, Hamas is, officially, a terrorist organization. They've been on that list ever since the list was started. Consequently, any official contact with them is a violation of federal law."

Three points:
1) Is being in violation of federal law with a snowball in hell's chance of prosecution be something those democrats would fear?
2) Would secret meetings be considered "official contact"?
3) Off topic but isn't it also a violation of federal law (let's call it treason) for a government to agressively refuse to defend its own country's borders? I don't see any calls for prosecution here.

Nice to know that I still ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Nice to know that I still get under your skin "hansel&gretal" . I told you I don't like celery you dumb shit. But that's just like moonbat lefties. Grammer smammer you still get my drift don't you? Last time I checked monkey piss smells a lot better then your smell of pig shit. I could care less what your kind think as I know what you and p'p' are--left wing asskissing COWARDS.I don't pretend to know the answers (as you and p'p'do) to all the problems of the word so I will continue to make fun of two of the biggest asshole kos kiddies rejects here. Oh by the way did your mouth get to look like a donut hole from eating bananas? Damn ain't this fun!!

Wow, that's quite an admiss... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Wow, that's quite an admission:

  1. Don't need good grammar or writing skills.

  2. Don't care what others think.

  3. Don't have any answers.

  4. Don't have anything intelligent to contribute.

  5. Main point of posting is to continue to make fun of people.

Yep, that sure sounds like someone to be taken seriously, I reckon. Either that or it's the dictionary definition of a troll.

Eighty percent of the co... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Eighty percent of the comments made here are aimed at personal or political party attacks

Couldn't agree more, USMC.

followed by:

BTW, usually barney or Lee are the first to post. Is there an on-line KOS meeting going on?

Anyone see the irony going on here?

Grammer smammer you stil... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Grammer smammer you still get my drift don't you? Last time I checked monkey piss smells a lot better then your smell of pig shit. I could care less what your kind think as I know what you and p'p' are--left wing asskissing COWARDS

That's right, little monkey. Spin and sputter. I think I'll offer you another stick of celery -- oops! Can't grab it quick enough, can you. Mmm, the celery sure tastes good.

Lee, you're wrong. They sa... (Below threshold)

Lee, you're wrong. They said "Jamil Hussein" "is not an iraqi police officer" nor is there any record of such a person in the MOI. But feel free to make up more facts at will. We're waiting.

Brer Fox, it be a bad idee ... (Below threshold)
epador:

Brer Fox, it be a bad idee to kick da Tar BabLee.

Jes Leeve it Blee.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy