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Krauthammer: The ISG Report Gives Bush a Great Opportunity on Iraq

Charles Krauthammer's article at RealClearPolitics is an interesting one. He writes that the ISG report has offered President Bush another chance to alter the tactics in Iraq and offer something bold:

As a result of the Iraq Study Group, President Bush has been given one last chance to alter course on Iraq. This did not, however, come about the way James Baker intended. It came about because the long-anticipated report turned out to be such a widely agreed-upon farce. From its wildly hyped, multiple magazine-cover rollout (Annie Leibovitz in Men's Vogue, no less) to its mishmash of 79 (no less) recommendations, the report has fallen so flat that the field is now clear for the president to recommend to a war-weary country something new and bold.


The ISG has not just been attacked by left and right, Democrat and Republican. It has invited ridicule. Seventy-nine recommendations. Interdependent, insists Baker. They should be taken as a whole. "I hope we don't treat this like a fruit salad and say, 'I like this but I don't like that.'" On the basis of what grand unifying vision? On the authority of what superior wisdom? A 10-person commission including such Middle East experts as Sandra Day O'Connor, Alan Simpson and Vernon Jordan?

This kind of bipartisan elder-statesmen commission is perfectly appropriate as a consensus-building exercise for, say, a long-range problem such as Social Security. It is a ludicrous mechanism for devising strategic changes in the middle of a war.

I agree completely with Charles here in that President Bush has been given an opportunity to change tactics in Iraq. I think President Bush knows this and is the reason why he's put off his Iraq announcement to January.

Charles is also spot on in the last paragraph I quoted. The individuals selected to participate in the Iraq Surrender Group are highly educated and highly experienced civil public servants, but not one of them has had any experience dealing with the kind of enemy that we are facing right now - Islamofascists. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have offered their suggestions, but their lack of experience is evident in that what they have offered is so ineffectual that to implement their ideas would only put America in greater danger. Dialing down our troops in Iraq at this moment would be a signal to the Islamofascists that they have defeated us, which would only embolden them in their attempts to attack us. Our leaving Somalia as quickly as we did gave Bin Laden the impression that we were nothing but a paper tiger. We can not do that again.


Comments (54)

"The individuals selecte... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"The individuals selected to participate in the Iraq Surrender Group are highly educated and highly experienced civil public servants, but not one of them has had any experience dealing with the kind of enemy that we are facing right now - Islamofascists"

Glad to know that's your criteria, that experience counts -- but the White House, in their years of experience, have a really poor success rate.

I suggest "experience successfully dealing with the kind of enemy that we are facing right now" is a better benchmark, and on that count the administration fails, miserably.

One of the ironies of the i... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

One of the ironies of the inept policy of this inept president is that he just sets the table for more dems and a good chance at the presidency in 08. Also ironic that "The Decider" can't make a decision while Baghdad burns down around him. The emperor keeps on fiddiling (pun intended).

No new attacks on the homel... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

No new attacks on the homeland since 9/11. I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

KimOne would think... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

Kim

One would think that, by now, your reliance on Krauthammer's lunacy would have ceased.

Krauthammer has been the drum major for Bush's Iraq policy ( read: fallacy) from its inception.

Your continued referencing of the ISG as the "Iraq Surrender Group" flies in the face of the fact that "Surrender" is just what Bush's lunatic Iraqi War is going to lead to; a humiliating de-facto U.S. surrender after Bush has thrown 100's more Americans to their deaths to save his incompetent face.

This president, who had no accomplishments or successes of any sort prior to his vile presidency, is now inflicting his abominable predilection for failure on the greatest nation on earth.

And yopu and the ilk like Krauthammer continue to trumpet the colossal filure of the moron Bush.

nikkolaiYou... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

nikkolai

You posted: "No new attacks on the homeland since 9/11. I'd say that's a pretty good track record."

As Chevy Chase was wont to say "You ignorant slut."

That silly rightie taunt above that you mindlessly repeat like a Pavlovian Puppy fails to take into account that the World Trade Center was 1st attacked in 1993 and that the terrorists bided their time for 8 long years before their attack of 9/11.

Take your silly refrain above and shove it. You have no citation for any alleged success from the Chimp-in-chief.

Wow! The silly trolls are o... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Wow! The silly trolls are out in force today. Did someone throw a stink-bomb under the bridge?

"No new attacks on the home... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"No new attacks on the homeland since 9/11. I'd say that's a pretty good track record."

But, more Americans have died at the hands of terrorist in Iraq (according to Bush) than died on 9/11.

nikkolai, does it really matter where Americans are murdered?

That silly rightie taunt... (Below threshold)

That silly rightie taunt above that you mindlessly repeat like a Pavlovian Puppy fails to take into account that the World Trade Center was 1st attacked in 1993 and that the terrorists bided their time for 8 long years before their attack of 9/11.

...mostly under Clinton. Your point?

President Bush has been ... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

President Bush has been given an opportunity to change tactics in Iraq.

I has to laugh at that one. When has the President not had the opportunity to change tactics in Iraq? What's been keeping him from making changes? The lack of a report by wise old folks?

What is important is not this mushy ISG report: it is the departure of Grand Idiot Rumsfeld, who played the role of Rasputin to Bush's Alexandra - with all kinds of dazzling bullshit about "transformation," "net-centric warfare," basically saying that technology obviates the need for boots on the ground, and you can fight the war on the cheap. This is what led us to the current extreme situation.

So now that Rummy is gone, the generals can finally tell the truth about personnel strength, force levels and operational tempo:

The Army's chief of staff, Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, told a commission Thursday that he wants to increase the half-million-member force beyond the 30,000 troops authorized in recent years. And he warned that the Army "will break" without thousands more active duty troops and greater use of the reserves.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,120608,00.html

Because Rummy was against expanding troop strength, all we heard from his DOD was that everything was fine, we have enough troops. Now, with non-demented leadership, there can be a real discussion about strategy within the DOD.

"That silly rightie tau... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"That silly rightie taunt above that you mindlessly repeat like a Pavlovian Puppy fails to take into account that the World Trade Center was 1st attacked in 1993 and that the terrorists bided their time for 8 long years before their attack of 9/11."

And your typical socialist-regressive straw man that you lefites repeat like Pavlovian Puppies conveniently ignores all of the other terrorist attacks on US interests (although not on the US homeland) that took place during the time peroid you site. Must be nice being a member of the fabricated reality based community.

"..an earthquake that tomor... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"..an earthquake that tomorrow swallows Israel whole and sinks it (like Santorini, 1650 B.C.).."

Sorry Kraut, but Santorini:
1) Did not sink (I have been there, and above water)
2) Part of it was blown-up by an volcano (no earth quake was involved)

Other than that, I would like to know about all the Democrats that have dismissed the recommendations (in full)? Can you supply any names and quotes from leading Democrats that have fully dismissed the report like you have?

you lefites(sic) repeat ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

you lefites(sic) repeat like Pavlovian Puppies conveniently ignores all of the other terrorist attacks on US interests (although not on the US homeland)

Hmmm. They were responding to this:

No new attacks on the homeland since 9/11. I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

Oh, and all hail the Lefites!

P. BunyanIn... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

P. Bunyan

In your post: "conveniently ignores all of the other terrorist attacks on US interests (although not on the US homeland) that took place during the time peroid you site. Must be nice being a member of the fabricated reality based community."

You ignorant slut!

You are the charter member of the "fabricated reality based community." In a July 25, 2005 report in the Washington Post the following is cited: "Overall, the number of what the U.S. government considers "significant" attacks grew to about 655 last year, up from the record of around 175 in 2003, according to congressional aides who were briefed on statistics covering incidents including the bloody school seizure in Russia and violence related to the disputed Indian territory of Kashmir."

If what you posted above is your silly measure of Bush's anti-terror success, gawd help us all.

$400 billion spent (in Iraq... (Below threshold)
Lee:

$400 billion spent (in Iraq alone), 25,000 US soldiers wounded or killed in action, a civil war quagmire in Iraq that is growing worse daily, and the righties want the world to believe that the Republican'ts have a handle on terrorism. Amazing.

Let's get the lefty mantra ... (Below threshold)
LJD:

Let's get the lefty mantra straight, shall we?

A booming economy, no attacks on U.S. soil, a greatly diminished Al Qaeda, and two unprecedented military victories are all 'the colossal filure of the moron Bush'?

..and since fewer Americans were slaughtered in concentration camps, the 500k that died in WWII all died in vain?

you all are sooo crude & ru... (Below threshold)
ye gads what a bunch of garbage mouths!:

you all are sooo crude & rude your rash of nastiness is evidence of your over all nit whitish clinton inspired "revelations". UGH!

These are the threads I don... (Below threshold)

These are the threads I don't even get involved in. When it's been overrun by ten out of 16 comments impugning the integrity of the author and any one even remotely identified with the author or the subject's author, it's just not worth it.

Republican mantra #2:... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Republican mantra #2:

Everything is always good for Republicans. No. Matter. What. (Even the last election)

LJDSo you c... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

LJD

So you claim, "A booming economy, no attacks on U.S. soil, a greatly diminished Al Qaeda, and two unprecedented military victories are all 'the colossal filure of the moron Bush'?"

Booming for whom...the vanishing Middle Class? Oh, you probably meant the handful of employees getting $36 billion in Christmas bonuses at an average payout of $635K per employee. Poor Jay only got a $100 signing bonus; guess he'll be getting a 65" hi-def tv from his "booming" economy.

No attacks on American soil...???? It took 8 years for the 2nd attack to occur. The terrorists had to wait until we had a president who liked to read "My Pet Goat" to kidss for an unguarded moment of opportunity. 5 years is hardly reason to sit on your laurels or again take up reading to children.

And your last comment, wherever you thought it was going, just leaves you pissing in the wind on yourself.

What kind of fantasy land do you live in LJD, or is your face just naturally brown no matter where you've shoved it up??

Let's get the lefty mant... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Let's get the lefty mantra straight, shall we?

Well, let's look at your version of reality, anyway.

A booming economy,

No help for the middle and lower classes, but hey, as long as profits are high, right?

no attacks on U.S. soil,

And hopefully this continues, though the administration's refusal to enact many of the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission points to significant weaknesses that increase the likelihood of an attack in the near future. Maybe it will be after 8 years have past like 9/11, maybe not.

a greatly diminished Al Qaeda,

Says who? From all reports I've heard, coming both from our government and from independent organizations, the wars have only served to increase recruitment by terrorist organizations, especially Al Qaeda.

and two unprecedented military victories

Oh, there's plenty of precedent. It's called the British Empire. Much of the mess we now have in the Middle East is because of their dumb asses, so let's repeat their mistakes! How about we create some new nations with even more conflicting sects and ethnicities (though it would be really hard to do that moreso than in Iraq)!

are all 'the colossal filure of the moron Bush'?

Amongst other things, yes.

"Everything is always g... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"Everything is always good for Republicans. No. Matter. What. (Even the last election)"

The last election was bad for the Republicans, but it was not bad for conservatives unless the "blue dog" democrats were lying. Now history has demonstrated a very high probability that if a democrat said it, it is a lie, but I'm still hoping for the best...

Speaking of the economy, di... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Speaking of the economy, did you hear about the Sachs/Goldman announcement? The average 2005 salary of their 24,000 employees is $630,000/year (up 40% from last year).

Now, Back to the Topic:
A little over a month ago, the Prez and VP told us "We are winning in Iraq" and "we will stay the course". Now the Prez is "listening" to the experts for a course correction, which he wont announce.

So, the "Decider" can't decide?

No point arguing with you b... (Below threshold)
LJD:

No point arguing with you brainwashed idiots, since no one has fielded a credible rebuttal to my comment.

1.) You will not perceive the economy to be good if all you're doing is ripping bootleg Dead CDs for your friends in the basment.

2.) Pretty much irrefutable all by itself. You can make up whatever imaginary explanations you want. At least Bush DID SOMETHING, while Clinton went for a BJ and waited for AQ to get a real attack under their belts.

3.) Just look at the list of those killed and captured. Nuff said. Of course I expect to hear something from your traitors about their ranks growing exponentially, but that's what I would expect from those who WANT us to lose.

4.)The military successes in Iraq and Afghanistan are unparalleled for any time in human hisotry. Read up on it. Of course the post combat situation is extremely difficult thanks to your (and those like you) constant defeatist blabbering and blatant support for the enemy.

And all you have is personal attacks for me. What a bunch of jerks. Don't worry though, with the Dems in power, you may yet get the AQ ass whooping you have all been hoping for.

No point arguing with you b... (Below threshold)
LJD:

No point arguing with you brainwashed idiots, since no one has fielded a credible rebuttal to my comment.

1.) You will not perceive the economy to be good if all you're doing is ripping bootleg Dead CDs for your friends in the basment.

2.) Pretty much irrefutable all by itself. You can make up whatever imaginary explanations you want. At least Bush DID SOMETHING, while Clinton went for a BJ and waited for AQ to get a real attack under their belts.

3.) Just look at the list of those killed and captured. Nuff said. Of course I expect to hear something from your traitors about their ranks growing exponentially, but that's what I would expect from those who WANT us to lose.

4.)The military successes in Iraq and Afghanistan are unparalleled for any time in human history. Read up on it. Of course the post combat situation is extremely difficult thanks to your (and those like you) constant defeatist blabbering and blatant support for the enemy.

And all you have is personal attacks for me. What a bunch of jerks. Don't worry though, with the Dems in power, you may yet get the AQ ass whooping you have all been hoping for.

You will not perceive th... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You will not perceive the economy to be good if all you're doing is ripping bootleg Dead CDs for your friends in the basment.

Yet apparently you will find it good if you have a hard-working, double-income family and still can't keep up with inflation and rising healthcare, fuel, and education costs. But the head of your company just got a multi-million dollar bonus, so the economy must be great!

Pretty much irrefutable all by itself. You can make up whatever imaginary explanations you want. At least Bush DID SOMETHING, while Clinton went for a BJ and waited for AQ to get a real attack under their belts.

Right, Bush did something that has ensured that way more people in the Muslim world despise the U.S. I'm sure this has driven funding, support, and recruitment for terrorist groups way down. Btw what explanations, exactly, were imaginary. Be specific.

Just look at the list of those killed and captured. Nuff said. Of course I expect to hear something from your traitors about their ranks growing exponentially, but that's what I would expect from those who WANT us to lose.

Ok, let's see the list. Let's then see the list of all Al Qaeda members so we can get an idea of what percentage have been killed. Don't have either list? Oh, too bad, if you did then your assertion may have had some basis in fact. Care to try to back it up at all? Btw I don't want us to lose, that's why I'm pissed that our actions are in fact counterproductive to the cause of reducing terrorism.

The military successes in Iraq and Afghanistan are unparalleled for any time in human hisotry. Read up on it. Of course the post combat situation is extremely difficult thanks to your (and those like you) constant defeatist blabbering and blatant support for the enemy.

The post-combat situation is difficult because people in the United States point out how ineptly unprepared for this conflict and ignorant of the consequences the administration was? Wow, I would say you'd probably blame the victim for the rape, but you wouldn't even do that, you'd blame those who pointed out he was a rapist in the first place.

Kim must be over the target... (Below threshold)
PSGInfinity:

Kim must be over the target, for all the flak she's taking.

"Ugnohooiam", you're omitting the U.S. Embassy truck bombs, the Khobar Towers attack against U.S. citizens, and the U.S.S. Cole attack. A booming economy translated into full employment, greatly benefitting the middle class, which you also ignored. And your tone isn't worth responding to. A few more links, more maturity, much less vitriol.
Please.

Mantis,
Income disparity is a result of massive global transformations having little to do with any one government's policy. See Forbes' 400 Richest for some flavor on that.

Creating al-Q's is inevitable if we attempt to defeat them. We can fight them there, with the World's Best Armed Forces, or we can fight them here with civilians, especially schoolchildren (google Beslan).

And if we walk, we throw away all credibility, hastening the day we have to solve the problem with a pan-regional nuclear annihilation. Iraq is trying to prevent that...

Income disparity is a re... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Income disparity is a result of massive global transformations having little to do with any one government's policy.

I should have prefaced this by saying that I'm not blaming the Bush administration for the income disparity (though they do almost nothing to combat it), just pointing out that a "booming economy" means much less if the vast majority of people don't reap any rewards from it.

nikolai, Bunyan, mantis,</p... (Below threshold)
Robert:

nikolai, Bunyan, mantis,

Still see you're part of the "If it didn't happen 10 minutes ago, i can't remember it" party.

Here's a couple of reminders: Anthrax, The MD/VA/ DC Snipers.

Check your calendars and maps and get back to me.

I object. I can remember s... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I object. I can remember stuff as far back as 20 minutes ago. Good point on the domestic terrorism, but I guess if it's not Muslamonazis, it doesn't count.

A booming economy benefits ... (Below threshold)
sam:

A booming economy benefits those who contribute to it, not the lefty losers like mantis and lee. Not surprising, really.

PSGInfinity... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

PSGInfinity

In regard to your response to me re terrorist attacks, I was responding to Bunyan's claims about no further terrorist attacks on the homeland, nothing more. It is absurd to claim that Bush has spared us further attacks at home because he is fighting terrorism in Iraq. There was an 8 yr gap between WTC '93 and 9/11. No reason for the Bushies to sit on there unproven and undemonstrated success.

And as for your ridiculous response to what I said about the illusory "booming" Bush economy, all his "full employment" job market for the Middle Class has been lower-paying job creation to the tune of 25% to 30% lower paying jobs that replaced lost jobs. So your "booming" econmoy is created through the devolution of the Middle Class.

The reality is simple: no proven protection from another and more lethal terrorist act and no demonstrable success in removing the threat.

And the "booming" Bush economy is an absolute illusion for just about every Americn with the exception of Bush's most-favored "Haves and have mores>" Get off the booming economy crap...macro-economic statistics don't put food on the table nor do they priovide affordable health care to the vast Middle Class that is becoming the vast "have nots" of the Bush economic flood rush up to the top 1% of Americans.

SamYour rem... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

Sam

Your remarks about booming economy are F.O.S. The Middle Class is vanishing under the Bush economy.

You can make all the standard conservative crap remarks about non-participants that you want, but they fly in the face of reality. You economic Darwinists just never get it.

The ISG report is predicate... (Below threshold)

The ISG report is predicated on imminent or inevitable defeat and we need not concede either. There is clearly a strain of a priori capitulation in the report one that puts consensus before victory.

See my post on this issue from today at either

www.clearcommentary or
http://clearcommentary.townhall.com

Creating al-Q's is inevi... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Creating al-Q's is inevitable if we attempt to defeat them. We can fight them there, with the World's Best Armed Forces, or we can fight them here

Surely you must know that AQ makes up less than five percent of who we're fighting "over there". The rest are just Iraqis who want us out.

Ug-whatever:The on... (Below threshold)
sam:

Ug-whatever:

The only folks who have nay problems are non-workers and lazy-asses like yourself. How's your socialist utopia in North Korea and Cuba working out?

Sam You rig... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

Sam

You rightie Wizfools love to label w/ socialism. All your snottiness cannot turn this Bush boom for the "haves and the have mores" into a broad-based economic boon for the MC.

Get your head out of your ass, or is there another reason why your breath always smells.

Conservatives won in this l... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Conservatives won in this last election. Some conservative dems even tried to "outdo" the conservative republicans.

Any time the dems have to resort to becoming more conservative than the republican, well, hey, the Left loses.

Whooo hooo! :)

A Young Marine Speaks Out</... (Below threshold)
drlava:

A Young Marine Speaks Out

by Philip Martin


I'm sick and tired of this patriotic, nationalistic and fascist crap. I stood through a memorial service today for a young Marine that was killed in Iraq back in April. During this memorial a number of people spoke about the guy and about his sacrifice for the country. How do you justify 'sacrificing' your life for a war which is not only illegal, but is being prosecuted to the extent where the only thing keeping us there is one man's power, and his ego. A recent Marine Corps intelligence report that was leaked said that the war in the al-Anbar province is unwinnable. It said that there was nothing we could do to win the hearts and minds, or the military operations in that area. So I wonder, why are we still there? Democracy is not forced upon people at gunpoint. It's the result of forward thinking individuals who take the initiative and risks to give their fellow countrymen a better way of life.

When I joined I took an oath. In that oath I swore to protect the Constitution of the United States. I didn't swear to build democracies in countries on the other side of the world under the guise of "national security." I didn't join the military to be part of an Orwellian ("1984") war machine that is in an obligatory war against whoever the state deems the enemy to be so that the populace can be controlled and riled up in a pro-nationalistic frenzy to support any new and oppressive law that will be the key to destroying the enemy. Example given - the Patriot Act. So aptly named, and totally against all that the constitution stands for. President Bush used the reactionary nature of our society to bring our country together and to infuse into the national psyche a need to give up their little-used rights in the hope to make our nation a little safer. The same scare tactics he used to win elections. He drones on and on about how America and the world would be a less safe place if we weren't killing Iraqis, and that we'd have to fight the terrorists at home if we weren't abroad. In our modern day emotive society this strategy (or strategery?) works, or had worked, up until last month's elections.

My point in this; to show that America was never nationalistic. If anything they were Statalistic (giving their allegiance to the state of their residence). This is shown in the fact that the founders created states with fully capable and independent governments and not provinces that were just a division of the federal government. These men believed that America was a place where imperialistic values would be non-existent. Where the people trying to make their lives better by working hard, thinking, inventing and using the free market would tie up so much of normal life that imperialistic colonization and the fighting of wars thousands of miles away for interests that are not our own would be avoided. They believed this expansion of power could be left to the European nations, the England, France and Spain of their time. However this recent, and current influx of nationalistic feeling has created an environment where giving up your rights, going to a foreign country to fight a people who did not ask for us to be there, nor did their leader do anything to warrant us being there, and dying would be considered honorable and heroic. I don't believe it anymore. I don't believe it's right for any American to go along with it anymore. Yes I know that we in the military are bound by the UCMJ and somehow don't fall under the Constitution (the very thing we're suppose to be defending) but sooner or later there is a decision that every American soldier, marine, airmen and seamen makes to allow themselves to be sent to a war that is against every fiber this country was founded on. I know that when April rolls around I will be thinking long and hard on that decision. Even though we in the military are just doing as we're told we still have the moral and ethical obligation to choose to do as we're told, or to say, "No, that isn't right." I believe that if more troopers like me and the professional military, the officers and commanders, start standing up and saying that they won't let themselves or their troops go to this illegal war people will start standing up and realizing what the heck is going on over there.

The sad fact of the matter is that we are not fighting terrorists in Iraq. We are fighting the Iraqi people who feel like a conquered and occupied people. Personally I have a hard time believing that if I was an Iraqi that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power to kill and maim as many Americans as possible. I know that the vast majority of Americans would not be happy with the Canadian government, or any other foreign government, liberating us from the clutches of George W. Bush, even though a large number of us would like that, and forcing us to accept their system of government. Would not millions of Americans rise up and fight back? Would you not rise up to protect and defend your house and your neighborhood if someone invaded your country? But we send thousands of troops to a foreign country to do just that. How is it moral to fight a people who are just trying to defend their homes and families? I think next time I go to Iraq perhaps I should wear a bright red coat and carry a Brown Bess instead of my digitalized utilities and M16.

Notice I never once used the word homeland in any of this. I have a secondary point I want to bring up now. Never once was the term homeland ever used to describe the country of America until Mr. Bush began the department of homeland security after the 9/11 attacks. Taking a 20th century history class will teach us that the most notable countries in the last century that referred to their country in this way were Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Hitler used the term fatherland to drum up support, nationalistic support, for his growing war machine. He used the nationalism he created in the minds of the Germans to justify the sacrifice of their livelihood to build the war machine to get back their power from the oppressive restrictions the English and French had put on them at Versailles. This is the same feeling that has been virulently infecting the American psyche in the last hundred years. This is the same feeling that consoles a mother after her son is killed in an attempt to prosecute an aggressor's war 10,000 miles away. It's also known as Patriotism these days, but I say, "No more." No more nationalistic inanity, no more passing it off as patriotism. Patriotism is learning, and educating oneself to understand what their country really stands for.

I heard a lot during the memorial service about how the dead Marine did so much good for others and how his helping others was like a little microcosm of America helping because we have the power to do so. Well if we have the power to help people why aren't we helping in Darfur where hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 10 years. Saddam was convicted and sentenced to death for killing 143 Shiites who conspired to assassinate him. (I know all you "patriotic" Americans would be calling for the heads of anyone who conspired to assassinate supreme leader Bush). And yet we spend upwards of 1 trillion dollars and nearing 3,000 lives to help these Iraqis when they don't even want us there. Not to mention we don't have the legal justification to be there. I guess we should wait around for the omnipotent W Bush to decide who we should use our superpowerdom to help next. It's about time to throw him and the rest of the fascists out. Moreover it's about time to start educating Americans about their past and history, and letting them know that imperialistic leaders are not what the founders of this great country wanted.

December 8, 2006

Philip Martin [send him mail] has been a Marine for 2 years. He is in the infantry (a "grunt"), and spent 7 months in the al-Anbar province of Iraq. He went on more than 180 combat patrols in and outside of the city of Fallujah, where he was hit with 2 IEDs (luckily never injured) and was involved in a number of firefights. He is currently stationed in Twentynine Palms, CA, and due to return to Iraq for a second deployment in April 2007. He is 21-years-old.

Ug-whatever:A piec... (Below threshold)
sam:

Ug-whatever:

A piece of advice for you, moron. Get a college degree (a real one, not the one you may have). Don't have kids out of wedlock. You'll do fine.

Or, go kill yourself, you re worthless.

drlavaGreat... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

drlava

Great post by Phillip Martin.

Sadly, the Wizfools at this site will never understand.

Conservatives won ... (Below threshold)
Conservatives won in this last election.

Jo - that must be some high quality crack you're smoking tonight.

The November election was a landslide victory for the Democrats and a stunning defeat for the Republicans and the neoconservatives who've led them into the political wilderness for at least a generation. Need I remind you of the results?

Governorships 56-44 Dem.
State Legislatures Controlled 57-41 Dem.
State Legislative Seats 55-45 Dem.
US House Seats 54-46 Dem.
Senate Generic Vote 55-42 Dem.
Contested US Senate Seats 72-28 Dem.

So read the numbers and weep, Jo. This country has taken a solid shift leftward and the Democrats are going to control the Congress for the next 25 years thanks to people like you and the drunken frat boy who occupies the Oval Office right now.

Have you noticed that all t... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Have you noticed that all the moonbats on this thread have not mentioned that the asskissing by the demos has already started? Nelson,sKerry, Dodd and Richardson's mouth is already looking like a donut hole. And to beat it all they are talking to the guy with no chin!! (Richardson invited the North K. in for a pucker fest.) Already begging them not to hurt us if the US will kiss their ass. Typical liberal policy as always.

As to "ugh" about the booming ecomony--only ones it is bypassing is those that sit on their ass crying because they have to walk to the mailbox to get their welfare check. What day of the month does your check arrive? Has the goverment hired anyone to carry your check in yet? Now that the dems are in it will not be long so "try" to hold on a little longer, ok?

As to "larkin"--you are dumber then dirt (sorry dirt). Oh by the way I am recommending you for membership in the "club".

The next 25 years? Ha h... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

The next 25 years? Ha ha ha . What a bunch of retards.It's people like you bedwetting shit for brains that create vigilante's. I hope they find you soon.

Get off your 'ass' fetish. ... (Below threshold)
Patriot's Game:

Get off your 'ass' fetish. That's all you ever talk about. Makes people wonder about you.

To absolutely no one's surp... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

To absolutely no one's surprise, none of you goofballs make any attempt to address Kim's post.

You beg the question: Why do you waste your time on us poor unfortunate "Wizfools". Surely you can find some other blog you can hector with your alleged intelligence.

You remind me of obnoxious 5th graders with a brand new substitute teacher. You take advantage of your anonymity here constantly just to annoy people you disagree with politically, not to add anything lucid to the conversation. Why don't you behave like guests instead of arsonists?

I repeat my call for Wizbang to require registration for posting privileges. It's long overdue. There's little point in even reading posts any more. This is a verbal food fight, not a discussion. Enough is enough.

bobdogInter... (Below threshold)
Ugnohooiam:

bobdog

Interesting point you make here.

My limited experience on this site is that when a reasoned comment or serious point is made in response to the original post, that it is the standard Wizfool lurkers who begin to reply w/ things like "socialist," "commie," "treasonus," "asshat," "moonbat," "democrap." etc. Ad hominem is a standard tool of the Wizfools.

What you people want appears to be obeisance & Pavlovian yips in response to the tunes of this site, not discussion. For example, when a Wizzer cites the Bush economic boom,(?)no one dare mention the reality that it does not even spill over to the MC or that much of the Bush job-generation has been in low-paying jobs at an average of 25%-30% less than the jobs previously lost. Instead, one gets responses like jhow66's just above that reflect just what kind of piggish thought he has. (apologies to the hog species) I believe that the disdain for the "MSM" always cited here is due to the fact, like it or not, that the MSM does not dutifully cough up your distorted vision of the world and reaffirm your malignant approach to the problems that people confront in life.

Examples of this kind of knee-jerk Wizfool response are creatures like "jhow66," BobinLA," "LovesAmericaImmigrant,"and "cubanbob" to name a few.

What's the matter "ughie"do... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

What's the matter "ughie"does the truth hurt? You can tell when someone does not like to hear the truth by the way they answer your post. First they spout big o' words as to make you think they are "smart". Then they spout "he said she said", then long lists of links to prove they know how to do it but make no sense. Then they tell you they can read your mind (at least we have one to read)so they must be physic. People like you come across as pimple face , whimpy, bleedingheart frauds. If you don't like it here go back and see if the kos kiddies will take you back. (hang in there Nancy will see that you get your check)

bobdog:When I used... (Below threshold)
USMC Pilot:

bobdog:

When I used to visit Polipundita, there was a commentor named MaryQ (actualy turned out to be numerous people), who was much like "Lee". A call went out to simply ignore all posts under that name, and it actually worked. The poster did not go away entirely, but the number of postings dropped dramatically. Censorship is not the answer, but you can choose to not read those postings by people that you know are only there to stir the pot, and especially don't respond to them. Children learn at an early age "if you won't pay attention to me when I'm good, then you'll have to pay attention to me when I'm bad". Responding to the Lee's, only encourages them.

In defense of "Ugnohooiam" post, the name calling by some of the conservatives at this site is not helping at all.

Did Jenna Bush, ... (Below threshold)
cvivil behavior:

Did Jenna Bush, for her father actually purchase 100K acres of land in Chaco Paraguay for him to cut brush?

Ugh,Don't listen t... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Ugh,

Don't listen to sam.
Don't kill yourself.

If you want to die, please sign up for duty in Iraq.
We're looking for 20,000 more good soldiers to give their lives (or limbs) for a lie.

Thanks.

Ugnohooiam, you missed my p... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

Ugnohooiam, you missed my point entirely. IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU. It's about the constant off-topic responses, like some of those above (including yours) that don't respond to the subject of the article at all.

IT'S ABOUT BAD MANNERS. You show no respect for your hosts here, who work their butts off to write intelligent, defensible argument, with all the research and effort that requires. It's all Emily Latella: "Which just goes to show...that the Bush Administration...blah, blah, blah". Take a look at Lee's first turd in the punchbowl on this thread, or Hugh's, or Civil Behavior's just above. Kim didn't write her article in five minutes. It probably took her an hour to draft, and then rewrite until it worked. I've done enough writing to understand the effort it takes, and you just crap on it, insult everybody here, and then sit back and giggle about it like you've done something important. You haven't.

I'm as guilty of name-calling USMC Pilot as many here. Most of us are sick of this deliberate and flagrant incendiary behavior. Would you want your kids to behave this way? If you wouldn't, then I have no use for you at all and will not respond to you again.

This isn't about obeisance (and yes, I do know what it means without looking it up), or freedom of speech. It's about civil behavior and respect for others. If you have a different point of view, then convince us with persuasive and mature argument. You'd be surprised at the response you'd get. Try it sometime.

As long as anonymous posting is allowed here, there is no reason for the trolls to write responsibly. It's much easier rile up the stupids and run like kids on Halloween. It's juvenile and fundamentally rude.

What I have trouble fathomi... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

What I have trouble fathoming is how Lee, Barney, Ungo, etc. all manage to post almost immediately after a Wizbang author posts. Do they get e-mail alerts or something? Is there is a little liberal DEFCON warning system that goes off whenever something conservative is written? Is this their first stop on the web before DailyKos? (if so, our hosts must be flattered!)

All the same, I find it curious and a bit amusing at the same time. :-)

The word mangler got me.</p... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

The word mangler got me.

"I'm as guilty of name-calling USMC Pilot as many here. Most of us are sick of this deliberate and flagrant incendiary behavior. Would you want your kids to behave this way? If you wouldn't, then I have no use for you at all and will not respond to you again." should read:

I'm as guilty of name-calling, along with many others, as USMC Pilot suggests. Most of us are sick of this deliberate and flagrant incendiary behavior. Ugnohooiam, would you want your kids to behave this way? If you wouldn't, then I have no use for you at all and will not respond to you again.

UCMC Pilot, Don't lump ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

UCMC Pilot, Don't lump me up with Conservatives or even Republicans on this site. The fact is I am still registered Democratic and I continue to call these POS's exactly what they are. Ignorant sluts, liars and frauds. A petulant pack of cowards attempting mob rule when they can't win by fraud.

"that the MSM does not dutifully cough up your distorted vision of the world and reaffirm your malignant approach to the problems that people confront in life."

Your talking about the Democrat Media and of course they are not report your alleged "Distorted Vision" because it does not exist. What they avoid to do is simply is their job by definition. They avoid the facts and play stupid as do the Democrats. They are no different from the 85% of felons who vote for Democrats and your so called MSM is well over 80% democrat voting political hacks. They do not serve the people at all , they serve the Democrat Party with their non stop smear campaigns , repeated lies , giving the Rats endless Media time (Hussein Obama) and run smoke screens for the criminals. Simply put it's "Election Fraud" (Plamegate, Delay, Foley, Maccaca).

The fact is that they are to biased and busy spewing the Party of Fraud's lies and propaganda and haven't the integrity nor courage to be professionals and do their job and report the facts that expose their criminal partners.

Democrats do nothing to solve the problems that people confront in life. They make them worse and just make empty promises that get broken within hours if not minutes. Democrats are liars and frauds and so are the pack bedwetting bozos poluting this site with their masters propaganda.

President Bush has done more that the worse and most criminal Presidents in our history put together, the shameless Jimmy Carter and Sexual Preditor "BJ" Clinton. You losers can come here and spews your cries of inept and incompetance to smoke screen what informed people know as common knowledge , Democrats are liars , cowards , traitors and frauds.




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