You forgot to call Wizbang 'Nazi's. When moonbats shriek, an angel gets their wings.

Marty: Let's talk about your reviews a little bit. Regarding 'Intravenus de Milo': "This tasteless cover is a good indication of the lack of musical invention within. The musical growth rate of this band cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry."

Nigel: That's, that's nit-picking, isn't it?

-- from This is Spinal Tap

You forgot to call Wizbang 'Nazi's. When moonbats shriek, an angel gets their wings.

Way to refute, Kat!

Ya freakin' Nazi.

I won't waste a lot of time on this, but I will comment that "Murtha was 100% right" is 100% wrong. He had no right to condemn the accused before any charges were filed, and "equal justice for all" was not his motivation. He was grandstanding for the news media, hoping to discredit the conduct of the war in Iraq, not out of any abiding concern for the victims.

You can say he was "100% accurate" if you want to, but even that won't hold up to close scrutiny. It wasn't "premeditated" and it wasn't "cold-blooded murder". You can say, probably accurately, that excessive force was used or it was beyond the existing rules of engagement if you want to, but at the time Murtha made his comments, there was no information on the case available, so Murtha was wrong to say what he did. He had no standing in this case. He either had illegal access to military records or the story was leaked to him, like so many other current "scandals".

And calling the New York Times "Dung Beetles" is still arguably accurate.

Sieg Heil, doooood.

Did someone get convicted while I wasn't paying attention? Because that's the only thing that would justify any of what this chucklehead wrote.

John what do you expect, meaningful and appropriate links (about Haditha) to justify the statements?

Better to say: now that jp2's had a chance to say something with documentation and linkage, and failed, this tells you everything you need to know about jp2.

I say send in the Ethiopians where US Moonbats fear to tread.

This "post" is damned "idiotic." There is no "meat" to it or actual "facts." There is no "link" to any "evidence" or anything even stating what the "author" is "alluding" to when making his "point." I "assume" he's "talking" about some "Marines" being "charged" in regards to "Haditha" but I'll be "damned" if I can "find" that anywhere in this "screed." But, hey, at least it set a "record" for "quotation marks/word count."

Wasn't there some kind of call for actual debate and less nastiness somewhere recently?

Eh...nevermind.

"embarrasment or shame"

This from someone who thinks a disbarred lawyer, admitted perjurer and accused rapist is the soul of the Democrat party.

So we were wrong about Haditha. BFD. But did you ever consider why we wouldn't believe the TSM or the screeching monkeys of the left? Because you've got a track record. Of sliming the troops ( "if you don't study. . ." ). Of spitting on them. Of shrieking "baby killers!" Of supporting them "when they shoot their officers." We could hear the excitement in your voices as you slobbered over the details of Haditha. We could see you creaming your panties as the prospect of being able to say "see? see? we told you all along - they're all killers! They're all redneck Christianist scum!"

But guess what? The Marines are facing justice. They will be punished for the stain on the Corps. They won't skate scot-free like Sandy Berger.

Only three posts on "Wizbang Blue" and it's gone down the crapper. What's next - "Abu Gharab: Worse Than Auschwitz" ?

" It wasn't "premeditated" and it wasn't "cold-blooded murder".

You know this for a fact? Note, all that it was written with the same conviction and conservative "ass-hattitude" as the quotes provided by JP in his post. Just more hot air from the apologists of murderers...

Gee willikers - the marines didn't gut the civilians after killing them -- what's all the moonbattiness over this??? is what we'll hear next from these sickos.

Sooo . . . one can be 100% right by simply claiming to be 100% right, no evidence required? I see. Well then, I'm 100% right when I say jp2 is crock full of bull excrement. Ample evidence was presented right here by jp2 himself.

"more hot air from the apologists of murderers. . ."

- sneers the fellow whose party has butchered millions of babies over the last twenty years and is even now slavering to strip-mine them for some quack "cure."

Wash the blood off your hands first, Lee.

I thought you progressives were the smart ones ? Alot of "you were wrong" with no links to back it up ...
Please re-post AFTER the Marines are tried because that is the only time you can possibly claim anyone was right or wrong ...

Until then innocent until proven gulty, right ?

Oh, I forgot, many liberals think Marines are just stupid killers ...

jp2,

I read through all the posts that were listed in the search that you linked to in the first sentence of your post above. I could not find 1 single thing in any of them that is not factually correct.

Instead of making broad generalities, could you please give us 1, just 1, specific example of something that was incorrect in any of the Wizbang posts regarding Haditha?

No? I didn't think so.

JP2,

Can you provide some facts to back up your opinion? Just saying the other guy is 100% wrong does not make a debate.

Well, no, John, no one has yet been convicted, but in the eyes of folks like Nancy Grace, not to mention most of the Wizchoir here, an indictment normally is as good as a conviction, unless you're an indicted Republican.

Hell, if these men weren't doing anything wrong, why did they get indicted?

jp2 can't seem to make the Big Leap from the comment section to the post-in-chief.

Well, it would be easy to just say this is idiotic as being charged isn't communsurate with being guilty - see Duke lacrosse rape farce.

But I'd like to take a different tact. Yes Lee you twit, I am defending murderers. Plain and simple, the people who died in this incident saw the bombs planted and know who did it. It was right in front of their houses. So at the minimum, they are accomplices to murder and could have stopped the killing of a US Marine. So no Lee, no tears from me on this one, regardless of the verdict at the end of the pending trial.

More tears for accomplices to murder of a US Marine than the brave men and women surving in harm's way = traitor. Sorry fellas, that's how I see it here.

I think this really boils down, once again, to those who want the US to win focusing on the positive and those who want the US to loose (jp2, Lee, John Murtha) focusing on the negative.

Haditha was a single isolated incident, as was Abu Grab(sp?) but the lefties would want the rest of the world to think that they were common everyday occurences for the American troops. That of course is 100% wrong on a number of levels.

This just seemed like a long-winded, quotation-laced way of trying to say "Nyah, nyah, ne-nayh, nyah. I was right and you were wrong! Neener, neener, neener!".

It does seem to be as well thought out and articulated, though.

"Plain and simple, the people who died in this incident saw the bombs planted and know who did it. It was right in front of their houses. So at the minimum, they are accomplices to murder and could have stopped the killing of a US Marine."

Witnesses are accomplices? What an interesting spin on American justice. Perhaps they should have thrown themselves in front of the Marines to protect them?

I thought the marines were there to protect the iraqis from terrorists -- but now we learn from Jack Burton that the Iraqis are supposed to protect the Marines from terrorists -- and if they don't accomplish that it is perfectl ok to exectue them on the spot - women, children, the elderly - just shoot them right there - no arrest - no trial.

Thanks for making the Republikan/Konservative position on this clear, Jack.

John Kerry, 1971: "not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command...."

Same bull-shit, different day.

I, for one, want to express my respect for this blog in giving "opposing" posters the stage for them to state their views. I sometimes read "Left" sites and haven't seen this done. They mainly stifle dissent and respond less than respectfully. For the most part this has been very civil. Jp2 has provided the least convincing arguement so far, but is highest in "sneer" factor. I think these are related traits. It has been interesting to give them such an arena and then see how they respond.

As others have pointed out, accusation is not conviction, but the fact that prosecution has proceded indicates pretty solid evidence.

The best analogue to Haditha is My Lai. There were a lot of folks who didn't believe that was true, or who denounced those who reported it as being sympathetic to the enemy. The truth is that if we are to be the leaders of the world, our behavior must be exemplary. When one of our own commits a war crime, we need to come down on them even more harshly than others would. To pretend that it couldn't happen because "we're the good guys" is naive, and so this must be taken seriously, not just reduced to one more political football.

" I'd like to invite our prominent lefty commenters - you know the ones who are so critical of the Wizbang writers all the time - to to submit blog posts for publication.

The plan is to publish pieces by these folks next week (in a addition to regular content) to see how those folks would do when they're the authors and the rest of the Wizbang readership are the critics."

Well, so far the Lefty Commenter Brigade is 0 for 3.

Nothing constructive or thought provoking.

I guess it's a lot easier to go to someone else's website and rudely attack the writer than it is to actually write something that people will want to read.

Well let's see here Lee. The US military is serving at the request of the elected Iraqi government and last time I checked, attacks against coalition forces was against iraqi law. That makes planting IEDs against the law. So would you think it's possible that the IED was planted with the approval of the alleged innocents who died that day? No, of course not, that would be given the US military the presumption off innocence until proven guilty, I neat little step in the legal process that slime like you seem all to willing to skip in condemning our soldies.

Back to your Starbucks jackass.

>>More tears for accomplices to murder of a US Marine than the brave men and women surving in harm's way = traitor. Sorry fellas, that's how I see it here.

Jack Burton: Do you believe that our troops have the moral or legal right to be judge, jury and executioner of Iraqi citizens? Your words indicate that this is what you believe, but I wonder what message this sends when we claim to be there to make them a democracy.

>>So would you think it's possible that the IED was planted with the approval of the alleged innocents who died that day?

Jack Burton: There's a problem with your reasoning here. The people who were killed were allegedly unarmed civilians. You claimed they "aproved" the actions of armed terrorists. It seems to me that the people of the neighborhood wouldn't have had much say in what the terrorists did. There was (and is) no effective police force to protect them from the terrorists and US forces just moved through the area during the day and went back to their barracks at night. Obviously there are a lot of innocent people being killed there by madmen for offenses a lot less serious than ratting out these thugs to the occupying forces, so do you think there's a chance they may have been intimidated into silence rather than being willing accomplices?

Blackcat,

I don't believe they have those rights, but I also know better than to try and impose my morals on them while I sit here in the comfort of my own home while they slog it out thousands of miles from home, getting shot and killed on a daily basis and having their friends blown to pieces - sometimes so badly that soldiers are initially reported missing because they couldn't find enough pieces of them to made an id.

So I have a little bit of a hard time siding with a bunch of liberal pukes who play judge and jury without ever having fired a weapon let alone served in the armed forces. I just think people like Lee or JP really should do anything other than shut the fuck up as they seem to have such a skip in their step anytime they have some shit they can shovel on our soldiers.

Sorry Blackcat, don't give a fuck why they didn't tell anyone. It was in the street right in front of the houses and one of our Marines was blown apart. Not really interested in what their excuse was, and of course you're taking a huge jump in proclaiming them innocent. For all we know they were terrorists just like the Marines said. That's why we're going to have a trial, a little part of the process that rapid troop hater jp seemed to forget about.

I see we've dispensed with 'innocent until proven guilty' in our haste to slam Conservatives. And to cover that up, we defend it by saying 'you do it too'.

In fact, the call of 'innocent until proven guilty' is what most people were calling for. The Public conviction by Murtha and to a lesser degree Rumsfeld and Bush were reprehensible.

"So I have a little bit of a hard time siding with a bunch of liberal pukes who play judge and jury without ever having fired a weapon let alone served in the armed forces."

so writes Jack Burton....

And why, Jack, are you so willing to have commanders-in-chief like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers sending others loved ones into harms way for an invasion that these men falsely led this nation into?

"like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers"

aRepukelican,

Of the two major party candidates for President in 2004, which one actually volunteered to go to Viet Nam?

"And why, Jack, are you so willing to have commanders-in-chief like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers sending others loved ones into harms way for an invasion that these men falsely led this nation into?"

Bush/Cheney didn't lead our illegal war into Kosovo.

Les, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on Hugh's post. I found that even though I largely disagree with Hugh politically, he had quite a few points about posting/commentary that are worthy of consideration regardless of political orientation.

Lee, jp & some of the other snarkmeisters however... they can kiss my patootie. So there.

And can we PLEASE quit with the fargin' chickenhawk arguments already???? From either side. It's incredibly juvenile whether it comes from the right or the left.

To Jack Burton: That's why I said "allegedly innocent." I don't claim to know all the facts. And just to be clear on it, I do NOT think that our troops deliberately set out to murder a bunch of people in revenge. I think that they were understandably upset over what had happened to their buddy and were operating on a hairtrigger. Self-preservation kicks in at such times and you shoot first and ask questions later. Now that is a breach of military discipline but it's not murder.

Blackcat, that was nicely put. It's the glee that dicks like lee and jp have that makes me sick. They were probably all about giving OJ the benefit of the doubt, their favorite weather underground murderer or cop killer mumia, but not US soldiers. Quite frankly, as a member of a long-term military family past and present, I wish people like lee and jp would just leave the fucking country, for good.

"It's the glee that dicks like lee and jp have that makes me sick. They were probably all about giving OJ the benefit of the doubt, their favorite weather underground murderer or cop killer mumia, but not US soldiers."

What glee - Jack? Are those voices in your head are laughing at you? No wonder -- Jack -- you fabricate reasons and justifications that exist in your fantasy mind only to hate liberals like JP and I, and you then use that anger you've fabricated against us to justify the senseless murder of innocent Iraqi civilians.

You are one sick person, Jack Burton, but I don't wish you'd leave the country -- I'm glad you're here and that you have the cajones to speak your (sick and twisted) mind. You will help the Democrats win the White House in '08, Jack, by showing your fellow Republicans exactly the kind of sick people and sick ideologies that are behind the Republican hypocrisy.

"Quite frankly, as a member of a long-term military family past and present, I wish people like lee and jp would just leave the fucking country, for good."

And quite frankly I'm glad people like JP have the cajones to stand up to punk