« Saddam Dead by Sunday | Main | Saddam Will Die Within The Hour »

Wizbang Blue: Revisiting Haditha

[Note: This entry is the third of several planned entries this week from liberal, progressive, Democratic, etc. members of the Wizbang comment community and readership in response to a call for entries last week. The reasoning behind the experiment is explained in the call for entries posts. Posts titles will be proceeded with the text, "Wizbang Blue:" to highlight that they are not posts from current Wizbang authors.


By: jp2

Perhaps it's time to revisit Wizbang's "reporting" on Haditha. They were 100% wrong on everything.

It was suggested on this site that the Haditha massacre was a "hoax" and that the Marines "followed rules of engagement," that a secret videotape "exonerated" the Marines, that the deaths were caused by a "firefight," that the murdered victims died because they "hid behind insurgents," that the evidence showed that the Marines "were not on a rampage," and that there was no "cold blooded murder."

Writers on this site called Murtha (who was 100% right) a "back stabber," "bomb thrower," a "slanderer," "irresponsible," "outrageous," a "knuckle head," and a "bloviating buffoon."

Writers on this site stated that lefty websites (who were 100% right) were "jumping the gun," "sloppy thinkers," and that "lefties" "won't leave our troops alone."

And that the NYT were "dung beetles" for pushing a story about war crimes, and that the story sounded like "a CBS Bush memo."

This tells you everything you need to know about the writers at Wizbang, who have (not surprisingly) not written anything about Haditha now that their complete wrongness is official. It's not embarrassment or shame - we know that those feelings cannot exist here. But it is awful, awful "work."

Shameful.


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Wizbang Blue: Revisiting Haditha:

» Risky Scheme linked with Wizbang Blue: Revisiting Haditha

Comments (94)

You forgot to call Wizbang ... (Below threshold)
Kat:

You forgot to call Wizbang 'Nazi's. When moonbats shriek, an angel gets their wings.

Marty: Let's talk about you... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

Marty: Let's talk about your reviews a little bit. Regarding 'Intravenus de Milo': "This tasteless cover is a good indication of the lack of musical invention within. The musical growth rate of this band cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry."

Nigel: That's, that's nit-picking, isn't it?

-- from This is Spinal Tap

You forgot to call Wizba... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

You forgot to call Wizbang 'Nazi's. When moonbats shriek, an angel gets their wings.

Way to refute, Kat!

Ya freakin' Nazi.

I won't waste a lot of time... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

I won't waste a lot of time on this, but I will comment that "Murtha was 100% right" is 100% wrong. He had no right to condemn the accused before any charges were filed, and "equal justice for all" was not his motivation. He was grandstanding for the news media, hoping to discredit the conduct of the war in Iraq, not out of any abiding concern for the victims.

You can say he was "100% accurate" if you want to, but even that won't hold up to close scrutiny. It wasn't "premeditated" and it wasn't "cold-blooded murder". You can say, probably accurately, that excessive force was used or it was beyond the existing rules of engagement if you want to, but at the time Murtha made his comments, there was no information on the case available, so Murtha was wrong to say what he did. He had no standing in this case. He either had illegal access to military records or the story was leaked to him, like so many other current "scandals".

And calling the New York Times "Dung Beetles" is still arguably accurate.

Sieg Heil, doooood.

Did someone get convicted w... (Below threshold)
John:

Did someone get convicted while I wasn't paying attention? Because that's the only thing that would justify any of what this chucklehead wrote.

John what do you expect, me... (Below threshold)
epador:

John what do you expect, meaningful and appropriate links (about Haditha) to justify the statements?

Better to say: now that jp2's had a chance to say something with documentation and linkage, and failed, this tells you everything you need to know about jp2.

I say send in the Ethiopians where US Moonbats fear to tread.

This "post" is damned "idio... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

This "post" is damned "idiotic." There is no "meat" to it or actual "facts." There is no "link" to any "evidence" or anything even stating what the "author" is "alluding" to when making his "point." I "assume" he's "talking" about some "Marines" being "charged" in regards to "Haditha" but I'll be "damned" if I can "find" that anywhere in this "screed." But, hey, at least it set a "record" for "quotation marks/word count."

Wasn't there some kind of call for actual debate and less nastiness somewhere recently?

Eh...nevermind.

"embarrasment or shame"<... (Below threshold)
cmd:

"embarrasment or shame"

This from someone who thinks a disbarred lawyer, admitted perjurer and accused rapist is the soul of the Democrat party.

So we were wrong about Haditha. BFD. But did you ever consider why we wouldn't believe the TSM or the screeching monkeys of the left? Because you've got a track record. Of sliming the troops ( "if you don't study. . ." ). Of spitting on them. Of shrieking "baby killers!" Of supporting them "when they shoot their officers." We could hear the excitement in your voices as you slobbered over the details of Haditha. We could see you creaming your panties as the prospect of being able to say "see? see? we told you all along - they're all killers! They're all redneck Christianist scum!"

But guess what? The Marines are facing justice. They will be punished for the stain on the Corps. They won't skate scot-free like Sandy Berger.

Only three posts on "Wizbang Blue" and it's gone down the crapper. What's next - "Abu Gharab: Worse Than Auschwitz" ?

" It wasn't "premeditate... (Below threshold)
Lee:

" It wasn't "premeditated" and it wasn't "cold-blooded murder".

You know this for a fact? Note, all that it was written with the same conviction and conservative "ass-hattitude" as the quotes provided by JP in his post. Just more hot air from the apologists of murderers...

Gee willikers - the marines didn't gut the civilians after killing them -- what's all the moonbattiness over this??? is what we'll hear next from these sickos.

Sooo . . . one can be 100% ... (Below threshold)
starboardhelm:

Sooo . . . one can be 100% right by simply claiming to be 100% right, no evidence required? I see. Well then, I'm 100% right when I say jp2 is crock full of bull excrement. Ample evidence was presented right here by jp2 himself.

"more hot air from the a... (Below threshold)
cmd:

"more hot air from the apologists of murderers. . ."

- sneers the fellow whose party has butchered millions of babies over the last twenty years and is even now slavering to strip-mine them for some quack "cure."

Wash the blood off your hands first, Lee.

I thought you progressives ... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

I thought you progressives were the smart ones ? Alot of "you were wrong" with no links to back it up ...
Please re-post AFTER the Marines are tried because that is the only time you can possibly claim anyone was right or wrong ...

Until then innocent until proven gulty, right ?

Oh, I forgot, many liberals think Marines are just stupid killers ...

jp2,I read through... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

jp2,

I read through all the posts that were listed in the search that you linked to in the first sentence of your post above. I could not find 1 single thing in any of them that is not factually correct.

Instead of making broad generalities, could you please give us 1, just 1, specific example of something that was incorrect in any of the Wizbang posts regarding Haditha?

No? I didn't think so.

JP2,Can you provid... (Below threshold)
yetanotherjohn:

JP2,

Can you provide some facts to back up your opinion? Just saying the other guy is 100% wrong does not make a debate.

Well, no, John, no one has ... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Well, no, John, no one has yet been convicted, but in the eyes of folks like Nancy Grace, not to mention most of the Wizchoir here, an indictment normally is as good as a conviction, unless you're an indicted Republican.

Hell, if these men weren't doing anything wrong, why did they get indicted?

jp2 can't seem to make the ... (Below threshold)

jp2 can't seem to make the Big Leap from the comment section to the post-in-chief.

Well, it would be easy to j... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Well, it would be easy to just say this is idiotic as being charged isn't communsurate with being guilty - see Duke lacrosse rape farce.

But I'd like to take a different tact. Yes Lee you twit, I am defending murderers. Plain and simple, the people who died in this incident saw the bombs planted and know who did it. It was right in front of their houses. So at the minimum, they are accomplices to murder and could have stopped the killing of a US Marine. So no Lee, no tears from me on this one, regardless of the verdict at the end of the pending trial.

More tears for accomplices to murder of a US Marine than the brave men and women surving in harm's way = traitor. Sorry fellas, that's how I see it here.

I think this really boils d... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

I think this really boils down, once again, to those who want the US to win focusing on the positive and those who want the US to loose (jp2, Lee, John Murtha) focusing on the negative.

Haditha was a single isolated incident, as was Abu Grab(sp?) but the lefties would want the rest of the world to think that they were common everyday occurences for the American troops. That of course is 100% wrong on a number of levels.

This just seemed like a lon... (Below threshold)
SomeGuy:

This just seemed like a long-winded, quotation-laced way of trying to say "Nyah, nyah, ne-nayh, nyah. I was right and you were wrong! Neener, neener, neener!".

It does seem to be as well thought out and articulated, though.

"Plain and simple, the p... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Plain and simple, the people who died in this incident saw the bombs planted and know who did it. It was right in front of their houses. So at the minimum, they are accomplices to murder and could have stopped the killing of a US Marine."

Witnesses are accomplices? What an interesting spin on American justice. Perhaps they should have thrown themselves in front of the Marines to protect them?

I thought the marines were there to protect the iraqis from terrorists -- but now we learn from Jack Burton that the Iraqis are supposed to protect the Marines from terrorists -- and if they don't accomplish that it is perfectl ok to exectue them on the spot - women, children, the elderly - just shoot them right there - no arrest - no trial.

Thanks for making the Republikan/Konservative position on this clear, Jack.

John Kerry, 1971: "not isol... (Below threshold)
Paul Bunyan:

John Kerry, 1971: "not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command...."

Same bull-shit, different day.

I, for one, want to express... (Below threshold)
Respectful in MO:

I, for one, want to express my respect for this blog in giving "opposing" posters the stage for them to state their views. I sometimes read "Left" sites and haven't seen this done. They mainly stifle dissent and respond less than respectfully. For the most part this has been very civil. Jp2 has provided the least convincing arguement so far, but is highest in "sneer" factor. I think these are related traits. It has been interesting to give them such an arena and then see how they respond.

As others have pointed out,... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

As others have pointed out, accusation is not conviction, but the fact that prosecution has proceded indicates pretty solid evidence.

The best analogue to Haditha is My Lai. There were a lot of folks who didn't believe that was true, or who denounced those who reported it as being sympathetic to the enemy. The truth is that if we are to be the leaders of the world, our behavior must be exemplary. When one of our own commits a war crime, we need to come down on them even more harshly than others would. To pretend that it couldn't happen because "we're the good guys" is naive, and so this must be taken seriously, not just reduced to one more political football.

" I'd like to invite our pr... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

" I'd like to invite our prominent lefty commenters - you know the ones who are so critical of the Wizbang writers all the time - to to submit blog posts for publication.

The plan is to publish pieces by these folks next week (in a addition to regular content) to see how those folks would do when they're the authors and the rest of the Wizbang readership are the critics."

Well, so far the Lefty Commenter Brigade is 0 for 3.

Nothing constructive or thought provoking.

I guess it's a lot easier to go to someone else's website and rudely attack the writer than it is to actually write something that people will want to read.

Well let's see here Lee. T... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Well let's see here Lee. The US military is serving at the request of the elected Iraqi government and last time I checked, attacks against coalition forces was against iraqi law. That makes planting IEDs against the law. So would you think it's possible that the IED was planted with the approval of the alleged innocents who died that day? No, of course not, that would be given the US military the presumption off innocence until proven guilty, I neat little step in the legal process that slime like you seem all to willing to skip in condemning our soldies.

Back to your Starbucks jackass.

>>More tears for accomplice... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

>>More tears for accomplices to murder of a US Marine than the brave men and women surving in harm's way = traitor. Sorry fellas, that's how I see it here.

Jack Burton: Do you believe that our troops have the moral or legal right to be judge, jury and executioner of Iraqi citizens? Your words indicate that this is what you believe, but I wonder what message this sends when we claim to be there to make them a democracy.

>>So would you think it's p... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

>>So would you think it's possible that the IED was planted with the approval of the alleged innocents who died that day?

Jack Burton: There's a problem with your reasoning here. The people who were killed were allegedly unarmed civilians. You claimed they "aproved" the actions of armed terrorists. It seems to me that the people of the neighborhood wouldn't have had much say in what the terrorists did. There was (and is) no effective police force to protect them from the terrorists and US forces just moved through the area during the day and went back to their barracks at night. Obviously there are a lot of innocent people being killed there by madmen for offenses a lot less serious than ratting out these thugs to the occupying forces, so do you think there's a chance they may have been intimidated into silence rather than being willing accomplices?

Blackcat,I don't b... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Blackcat,

I don't believe they have those rights, but I also know better than to try and impose my morals on them while I sit here in the comfort of my own home while they slog it out thousands of miles from home, getting shot and killed on a daily basis and having their friends blown to pieces - sometimes so badly that soldiers are initially reported missing because they couldn't find enough pieces of them to made an id.

So I have a little bit of a hard time siding with a bunch of liberal pukes who play judge and jury without ever having fired a weapon let alone served in the armed forces. I just think people like Lee or JP really should do anything other than shut the fuck up as they seem to have such a skip in their step anytime they have some shit they can shovel on our soldiers.

Sorry Blackcat, don't give ... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Sorry Blackcat, don't give a fuck why they didn't tell anyone. It was in the street right in front of the houses and one of our Marines was blown apart. Not really interested in what their excuse was, and of course you're taking a huge jump in proclaiming them innocent. For all we know they were terrorists just like the Marines said. That's why we're going to have a trial, a little part of the process that rapid troop hater jp seemed to forget about.

I see we've dispensed with ... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I see we've dispensed with 'innocent until proven guilty' in our haste to slam Conservatives. And to cover that up, we defend it by saying 'you do it too'.

In fact, the call of 'innocent until proven guilty' is what most people were calling for. The Public conviction by Murtha and to a lesser degree Rumsfeld and Bush were reprehensible.

"So I have a little b... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

"So I have a little bit of a hard time siding with a bunch of liberal pukes who play judge and jury without ever having fired a weapon let alone served in the armed forces."

so writes Jack Burton....

And why, Jack, are you so willing to have commanders-in-chief like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers sending others loved ones into harms way for an invasion that these men falsely led this nation into?

"like Bush/Cheney Viet ... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers"

aRepukelican,

Of the two major party candidates for President in 2004, which one actually volunteered to go to Viet Nam?

"And why, Jack, are you so ... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

"And why, Jack, are you so willing to have commanders-in-chief like Bush/Cheney Viet Nam draft-dodgers sending others loved ones into harms way for an invasion that these men falsely led this nation into?"

Bush/Cheney didn't lead our illegal war into Kosovo.

Les, I'll have to respectfu... (Below threshold)
IllTemperedCur:

Les, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on Hugh's post. I found that even though I largely disagree with Hugh politically, he had quite a few points about posting/commentary that are worthy of consideration regardless of political orientation.

Lee, jp & some of the other snarkmeisters however... they can kiss my patootie. So there.

And can we PLEASE quit with the fargin' chickenhawk arguments already???? From either side. It's incredibly juvenile whether it comes from the right or the left.

To Jack Burton: That's why ... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

To Jack Burton: That's why I said "allegedly innocent." I don't claim to know all the facts. And just to be clear on it, I do NOT think that our troops deliberately set out to murder a bunch of people in revenge. I think that they were understandably upset over what had happened to their buddy and were operating on a hairtrigger. Self-preservation kicks in at such times and you shoot first and ask questions later. Now that is a breach of military discipline but it's not murder.

Blackcat, that was nicely p... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Blackcat, that was nicely put. It's the glee that dicks like lee and jp have that makes me sick. They were probably all about giving OJ the benefit of the doubt, their favorite weather underground murderer or cop killer mumia, but not US soldiers. Quite frankly, as a member of a long-term military family past and present, I wish people like lee and jp would just leave the fucking country, for good.

"It's the glee that dick... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"It's the glee that dicks like lee and jp have that makes me sick. They were probably all about giving OJ the benefit of the doubt, their favorite weather underground murderer or cop killer mumia, but not US soldiers."

What glee - Jack? Are those voices in your head are laughing at you? No wonder -- Jack -- you fabricate reasons and justifications that exist in your fantasy mind only to hate liberals like JP and I, and you then use that anger you've fabricated against us to justify the senseless murder of innocent Iraqi civilians.

You are one sick person, Jack Burton, but I don't wish you'd leave the country -- I'm glad you're here and that you have the cajones to speak your (sick and twisted) mind. You will help the Democrats win the White House in '08, Jack, by showing your fellow Republicans exactly the kind of sick people and sick ideologies that are behind the Republican hypocrisy.

"Quite frankly, as a member of a long-term military family past and present, I wish people like lee and jp would just leave the fucking country, for good."

And quite frankly I'm glad people like JP have the cajones to stand up to punk thugs like you, who wrap themselves in pious sanctimony and jingoisms to justify their ideology of hate as they defend murderers who, according to you, Jack, were justified in their act of murder because Iraqi women and children didn't protect those murdering marines from terrorists.

We're there to help the Iraqi people, and there is NO justification for the murder of innocent civilians you sick, sad, twisted piece of dung. THAT was said with glee.

Huh. I wasn't aware that t... (Below threshold)
JimK:

Huh. I wasn't aware that the trial was over and all the evidence was in.

Funny...the same people who wail and cry about rights being violated are the fastest to throw servicemen under the bus when they are suspected of wrongdoing.

"We're there to help the... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"We're there to help the Iraqi people"

But Lee, I though we were there to make the neo-cons and Haliburton rich. Or was it building an empire? Wasn't it a war for oil? What's this crap about wanting to help the Iraqi people?

In all seriousness, there have been many, many posts by you, Lee, on this site where you did appear gleeful about any bad news for the US in this war. And many, many posts by you where you attempted to discount or discredit any good news for the US in this war.

Aside: what kind of retarde... (Below threshold)
JimK:

Aside: what kind of retarded third-grade intellect does it take to spell "conservative" with a 'K'?

Christ on a big frigging cross, that is just stupid.

Innocent till proven guilty... (Below threshold)
Fran:

Innocent till proven guilty.

And OJ's innocent.

Can I just point out that t... (Below threshold)
Gringo:

Can I just point out that the "chickenhawk" argument boils down to "I don't want civilian control of the military?"

Tho I'd be willing to take this a logical step further and say, "only people who have served in the military can vote," but I don't thing most of the chickenhawkers are with me on that.

I think the guest blogger a... (Below threshold)
Joe:

I think the guest blogger also forgot "You're fat, you're ugly, and your momma wears combat boots". Good grief. Here I was expecting insightful, thoughtful, well reasoned discourse and get some second grader's tantrum.

Son of a bitch Lee, I think... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Son of a bitch Lee, I think you managed about every liberal cliche and catch phase in one post. Congratulations, triple word bonus.

Boy, you and jp sure stood up to me. Hear the fierce liberal growl. What a bunch is sissy ass jack-offs.

My only hope to you is that if on the off chance you have any friends or familiy that are service members that they know what a troop hating ass you are. Sure, you wrap yourself around the troops when the wind blows that way, but given the smallest opening you are ready to pull the switch for all of them.

What's it like going to bed each night as such a self-hating sackless little wonder without a bone of courage or honor in your pathetic liberal little body. You spout your bullshit about our soldiers in the comfort of your own little world knowing that you will never be threatened because of their actions. You make me sick asshole.

It's reasonably clear, that... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

It's reasonably clear, that had Jack Burton been in Haditha, he would have been a cheerleader at the incident.

Jack, you are the jingoist's ideal puppet.

And, you, from "Quite frankly, as a member of a long-term military family past and present,"

Makes me wonder that w/ "service" like yours and those of your ilk ( er, family) , that the U.S. is not more despised around the world than is already the case.

Son of a bitch Lee, I think... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Son of a bitch Lee, I think you managed about every liberal cliche and catch phase in one post. Congratulations, triple word bonus.

Boy, you and jp sure stood up to me. Hear the fierce liberal growl. What a bunch is sissy ass jack-offs.

My only hope to you is that if on the off chance you have any friends or familiy that are service members that they know what a troop hating ass you are. Sure, you wrap yourself around the troops when the wind blows that way, but given the smallest opening you are ready to pull the switch for all of them.

What's it like going to bed each night as such a self-hating sackless little wonder without a bone of courage or honor in your pathetic liberal little body. You spout your bullshit about our soldiers in the comfort of your own little world knowing that you will never be threatened because of their actions. You make me sick asshole.

I thought the liberal comme... (Below threshold)

I thought the liberal commentors were supposed to come up with a post -- that was just another one of jp2's comments. Just a little longer and with less name calling.

Way to squander an opportunity, buddy.

And Lee, where is your post? Put up or shut up.

Okay, but wait, hasn't the ... (Below threshold)

Okay, but wait, hasn't the left gone off the deep end over just about every sensationalized story of war crimes, human rights abuses or simple bad behavior that has come down the wire since the beginning? Remember the peeing on the Koran story, the white phosphorous story, the terrorist shot in the mosque story, and how many others that the left has gone bonkers over? So now we have JP2 claiming the high ground, and judging by the left's record, may turn out to be right one time by sheer luck of number of times of shreiking. Sorry, but I'm terribly unimpressed.

Then we have the "domestic eavesdropping", the SWIFT leak and half a dozen issues in the Patriot Act they swear are eroding their liberties.

If it has anything to do with the US getting some advantage over the enemy in this war, the left screams bloody murder. That says a lot to me.

After all this, it's no wonder JP2's little rant easily falls on deaf ears now.

I am one of the writers her... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

I am one of the writers here at Wizbang. I have not written even one post on the incident at Haditha, because I believed the available information and claims were premature and I wanted to be accurate in my observations. I would like to know how the "Guest Poster" can justify the broad accusations he made, especially since many of the claims he cited (without links to support that they ever happened) are not things I remember seeing in any post. Perhaps the Guest Poster was referring to comments made by readers, in which case he may be fairly blamed for anything said in this thread, even those comments which in no way reflect his opinion. In any case the Guest Poster has certainly soiled any credibility he brought with him, from my perspective. If some on the Right were overly strong in defending Marines, this post demonstrates a clear malice and dishonesty on the Left, which we have certainly seen many times before. I wonder if the Guest Poster understands the irony of his own accusations proving him to be a greater fool and villain than those he assails?

Sorry about the double post... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Sorry about the double post.

Wow, now I would have been a cheerleader in Haditha? That's quite a jump, even for some idiot who spells Republican with a K. Damn, that's orginal.

The difference between me and you is I can understand the hell these guys have been through and can at least imagine how bad it must be to wake up from an explosion with what's left of your buddy all over your uniform. Liberal pukes think that adversity is a long line at starbucks or someone taking the last hit of your weed.

What ills this country is that you are too stupid and arrogant to understand the difference.

Is that what counts as "ref... (Below threshold)
j:

Is that what counts as "refutation?" Seemed like a lof of invective and not much insite. But expected from someone who see themselves as part of a "Side."

Barf!

I had an experience last we... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

I had an experience last week that I would like to share.

I was at the local cigar bar. Several of the customers were sitting around, smoking their stogies and watching TV. FOX was on as usual, and the conversation was about the Haditha massacre, and the pending trials. Without exception, the opinion was that no crime was committed. Kind of like, what do you expect from men when they are attacked.

Well I am sorry, but I expect more from our military and so do our men and women who previously served or who are serving now.

Face it, we all know it is true. some of the accused have already confessed to their crimes.

Shit happens, but you do not have to defend it.

What exactly qualifies you ... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

What exactly qualifies you to expect better from our troops?

Jack:What "qualifi... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Jack:

What "qualifies' anyone to expect better is that we are citizens. That's the only qualification anyone needs. Or do you change the right wing mantra to serve your own argument?

"I would like to know ho... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

"I would like to know how the "Guest Poster" can justify the broad accusations he made, especially since many of the claims he cited (without links to support that they ever happened) are not things I remember seeing in any post"

DJ, you may be technically correct about the distinction between "posts" and "comments," but Jp2 is essentially correct in his analysis of the Wizchoir chant about Haditha.

You, like many of the "commentors" here take Jp2 to task for the lack of "citations" to back his observations. To that end, you are little different from Insanity/Hannity or rLimbarf handling opposition call-ins on their radio shows. The standard tactic is to demand "citations" to back the observation as if the commenter (Jp2)or the caller-in has the capability to run a Lexus/Nexus search or else just shut up.

From my following of Wizfooleryery, original posts or comments, what Jp2 has described re Haditha is TRUE. Some may be paraphrases or summarizations, but his analysis rings true. The "original" posts about Haditha certainly invited a disparagement of anything said in the media about Haditha. The typical "comments" were far worse. If anyone bothers to go back & research the Haditha posts on Wizfoolery, along w/ comments, on this site, he will surely find innumerable instances of what Jp2 is referencing.

Cut the Insanity/Hannity crap refrain.

I am a sometoime reader and... (Below threshold)
patrick:

I am a sometoime reader and seldom commenter here. I have always liked this blog although I seldom agree, me being a democrat and all. I appreciate this experiment, I disagree with the poster of this entry, and feel that we need to go through the trial. It is my understanding that there have been confessions so maybe that might have been brought up. I disagree that this like abu gharib (sp) is a one time incident. We have proof of torture and there are many times when in the heat of battle mistakes are made and not reported. I don't know if I have a problem with that. What I still have a problem with is our involvement in Iraq. I live in a community with many Chaldeans, Christian Iraquis, and they tell me that there is no good news to report in Iraq. We have not restored power we have not buit schools and the Iraquis do not have a functioning government. They did not attack us we attacked them and now we are in the quagmire that no one on the right seems to think that we are in. I heard FOX report that if Saddam is hung a civil war might break out, does that mean there will be two different civil wars?

Ye haw!1) Lets see... (Below threshold)
epador:

Ye haw!

1) Lets see, US military would only go to trial if folks were guilty (not to shut up all the public accusers of cover up, or to bend to political pressures, or for someone to make a go for the brass ring in their career at some grunt's expense - no those aren't remotely possible explanations if you are too gleeful at the prospect of of finding another incident to support your lack of support for the Administration or OIF).

2) aR: Small point: Folks that write a post are expected to link or provide evidence to support their contentions. Commentors may or may not do so, depending upon how strong an argument they want to make in opposition. jp2 offerred no links nor even references outside of WB to support the assertation that Haditha was the site of a horrible US crime. The writing assumes the jp2 viewpoint and "knowledgebase" are thoroughly understood by the readers. Subsequent comments illustrate the error in judgment. And fail to offer much in the way of supporting objective evidence for the contentions of the original post.

"starboardhelm"Gre... (Below threshold)
USMC Pilot:

"starboardhelm"

Great handle!

From my following ... (Below threshold)
From my following of Wizfooleryery, original posts or comments, what Jp2 has described re Haditha is TRUE. Some may be paraphrases or summarizations, but his analysis rings true. Posted by: aRepukelican at December 29, 2006 05:27 PM

Good point. "Truthiness" is what really matters, after all. As for the "Wizchoir chant" - you come to a website that is generally conservative and you'll find a majority of opinions trend conservative. Amazing how that works! Of course, the variety and diversity of comments at DU and Kos is absolutely stunning.

And by opinions that trend ... (Below threshold)

And by opinions that trend conservative, where this issue is concerned, I mean we support the troops, and give them the benefit of the doubt. We assume their innocence until proven guilty.

Odd that JP2 never once quo... (Below threshold)

Odd that JP2 never once quoted a single "rightie" who reserved judgement or reiterated the simple "innocent until proven guilty" remark which is the very cornerstone of American justice or simply agreed that if they are guilty they should be punished. Colored lenses will keep one from being totally honest in their assessment.

Furthermore the "It was suggested on this site that ..." paragraph is misleading as with just a cursory glance the "rules of engagement" post and the "exhonerating videotape" post were block quoted text from elsewhere with very little commentary from the poster. The rules of engagement post was from a marine's account of the event and the quoted video tape post was finished off with the simple comment "We don't yet know everything that happened in Haditha but it is becoming more and more apparent everyday that the first story we heard has some very critical flaws in it.

Again, JP's colored lenses figure that even quoting someone makes them guilty by association.

As usual, the lefty loons c... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

As usual, the lefty loons cannot use a phrase accurately. Draft dodgers were people who were called to serve but ignored it and hid, or ran to Canada. Cheney was legally deferred. GW served. Jeez, you guys can't even get the lingo right.

About the only good thing y... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

About the only good thing you can say about jp2 is that he's consistent.

IllTemperedCur, I was gradi... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

IllTemperedCur, I was grading the Guest Posterss with the same exacting standards that they regularly hold Wizbang authors to (minus any personal attacks).
'Everyone should debate civilly; I haven't always done so and I promise to do so in the future' just didn't measure up to those standards.

(though if Hugh holds to his 'I promise to do so in the future' statement, then kudos to him.)

Can we just find some commo... (Below threshold)
gringo:

Can we just find some common ground and agree that untried troops are guilty, and mumia is innocent?

When did the Marine's get t... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

When did the Marine's get their day in court? Will they get to face their accuser since he's one of the phantom reporters employed by the antique MSM and the ASSociated (with terrorists) Press? Haven't all of the phantom reporters used by the NYT's (through the AP) now been outed as terrorist propaganda masters?

I think old JP2 has jumped the shark, or is it the fence since he sides with the terrorists in ALL cases. Think Saddam at 10PM singing swinging in a tree, and your (JP2's) fate in a few years.

The lack of links is somewh... (Below threshold)

The lack of links is somewhat my fault as editor of the piece. The post started life as a comment in an unrelated thread, and was then offered as a post. The word "reporting" does go to the list of Haditha posts, I just didn't link to each story individually.

OMG, thirty lashes with a w... (Below threshold)
epador:

OMG, thirty lashes with a wet noodle Kevin!

Ahhh! Finally a liberal, a... (Below threshold)
robert the original:

Ahhh! Finally a liberal, and true to form there is no plan here, no policy, no recommended action. There is no there there, just more shots at the stupid troops.

Would it interest you to know jp2 that the handler of the videotape in this case is most likely a terrorist? No, we'll just let that one pass, and to hell with the trial also.

And you may be proved right, jp2, in the end (as with stopped clocks), but what do you say to this:

1) If we abandon SALT agreements it will lead to another arms race with Russia.
2) If we go into Afghanistan we will get beat like a drum, like the Soviets and the British.
3) US forces stupidly allowed the looting of the Baghdad museum.
4) The racist Republicans deliberately withheld supplies from New Orleans.
5) Bush brought down the towers with explosives, a laser beam, etc.

With a record like this, lefties, one might forgive us the sin of failure to support lynching marines before a trial.

But you support the troops I'll bet, jp2, except of course, if they try to vote in Florida.

Or is it your contention that murder of civilians by US forces is widespread and a policy approved by all levels of command?

I've got to say that the 3 ... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

I've got to say that the 3 pieces published under the Wizbang 'Blue' have been excellent piece (for remedial 6th graders).

Seriously guys.. either put more effort into this or stop. You're making yourselves look even more moronic.

"WALLACE: OK. Senator Rocke... (Below threshold)
pagar:

"WALLACE: OK. Senator Rockefeller, the president says that Democratic critics, like you, looked at pre-war intelligence and came to the same conclusion that he did. In fact, looking back at the speech that you gave in October of 2002 in which you authorized the use of force, you went further than the president ever did. Let's watch:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCKEFELLER: I do believe that Iraq poses an imminent threat, but I also believe that after September 11th that question is increasingly outdated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now, the president never said that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. As you saw, you did say that. If anyone hyped the intelligence, isn't it Jay Rockefeller?

ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.

The above is from an interview between Chris Wallace and Sen Rockefeller on Fox News Sunday 13 Nov 2005.

There is one reason, why American soldiers are dying in Iraq today. Since even before we actually
went into Iraq, American leftists have been telling the terrorists, just hold on and we'll defeat America.
The same thing happened in Vietnam with John Kerry. Terrorists thru out the world know they can't defeat the American military. Only the American leftists can defeat America.

Of the two major party c... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Of the two major party candidates for President in 2004, which one actually volunteered to go to Viet Nam?

Good point! And that would be Kerry.

You're not going to trot out those old debunked claims about Bush volunteering, are you?

jp2 couldn't be bothered to... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

jp2 couldn't be bothered to write an original piece, but rather went with an existing comment. Lack of appreciation for such an opportunity costs jp2 points in my book. While jp2's peice has generated the most responses, many of those are between commenters, some of whom didn't show up on Black Cats' and Hugh's pieces. I rank the "liberal" pieces so far as #1 for Black Cat, #2 for jp2 and #3 for Hugh. Are there any more or is that it?

Of the two major candidates... (Below threshold)
pagar:

Of the two major candidates in 2004, which one went to Paris and met with the enemy and adopted
and promoted the positions of the enemy, by his own testimony in front of the Committee for Foreign Relations of the US Senate,on 22 Apr 1971?

"Good point! And that would be Kerry."

Brian, your not going to... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Brian, your not going to try and defend traitor POS Fraud Kerry are you?

Wow, you guys are still sor... (Below threshold)
Billy:

Wow, you guys are still sore about losing the Nov elections aren;t you? sulk some more like little babies, and make sure you continue your obsessions with Kerry and Clinton. It makes you look noble and humble.

Brian posts a link from Med... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Brian posts a link from Media Matters; ahem. Kerry tried to get his ass posted to off-shore duty as I recall. And he had the JFK, PT 109 fixation for his political future, as I also recall.

Lee, you called someone here a "sick" person, and have violated your cardinal essay/rule. As usual, you're all over the map.

The guests have put forth outstanding pieces of literature that suffer from no great attribution, citation, or mention of facts, or even policy. A pity this is what has lead the Dimocrap(tm) Party to it's position as America's #1 Dysfunctional Political Party (R).

On point, the Haditha debate began as a largely unsubstantiated rumor thrill for the Left. Before the facts were in, you guys had it all figured out. Which proves your anti-military bias. That's the entire point.

The fact that that some of the allegations may be borne out as true is beside the point, as you and the MSM had not even waited until a report on the incident was issued before letting loose on Bush and the military. You great big pigs.

Anyway, you guys forecasted, but were wrong in the same way, on Rove/Plame indictment, Dook rape case, Bush TANG documents, etc., etc.

But you found one thing you were remotely right about in some way, and like a clock, you were correct, at least twice a day.

Stupid punks. (Sorry Lee).

Pagar,There is ... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

Pagar,

There is one reason, why American soldiers are dying in Iraq today. Since even before we actually
went into Iraq....Terrorists thru out the world know they can't defeat the American military

If the terrorists know they can't defeat the US military then why are they bothering to inflict such damage? Why not just give up? Why bother with the civil war in Iraq or the Taliban struggle in Afghanistan?

If the US military is so technologically advanced and strong then why can they not bring stability to one city, Baghdad? If the US military is so strong then how is it that "insurgents" get away with numbers of murders day after day?

If you think that many of these kids in the US military after growing up playing violent video games have the presence of mind to exactly align their philosophical sentiments with the political strategy of an oil baron like George Bush you're just foolish. Hunting people around corners as they lose buddies to the "war" is not the perfect situation for losing control and acting out of the ordinary? This from a group of kids that have been trained to hunt humans? C"mon, what do you think the business of warriors is?

And all this while we talk about the barbarity of people whose sovereign land has been destroyed by and being occupied by a foreign militia?

Ever heard you reap what you sow?

Sorry, but I must ask, are you for real?

CB:<br /... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

CB:


If the terrorists know they can't defeat the US military then why are they bothering to inflict such damage?

Are you really that ignorant ?

Terrorism is a PR campaign designed to undermine the enemy's will to fight. They (terrorists) have zero chance of beating the U.S. militarily but if they can sufficiently undermine support for the war then the military will be forced to withdraw by their civilian masters.

Murtha's rush to the press ... (Below threshold)

Murtha's rush to the press so they can be judge and jury is morally equivalent to Nifong's.

Well, wizbang provides c... (Below threshold)

Well, wizbang provides commentary (like jp2's piece) and acts as a gatekeeper. wizbang does not perform original reporting.

Readers realize this.

Was Murtha 100% right? No. It wasn't premeditated as he asserted. A substantial difference in legal terms. But, was he more or less "right"? Sure. Afterall, a broken clock is right twice a day right?

The idea that certain people are 100% right and others are 100% wrong (ie, that the world is black and white)...isn't that something the left often accusses the right of falling victim to? Careful there jp2...

If the terrorists ... (Below threshold)
marc:
If the terrorists know they can't defeat the US military then why are they bothering to inflict such damage? Why not just give up? Why bother with the civil war in Iraq or the Taliban struggle in Afghanistan? - Civil [Mis]behavior
And the terrorists also knowhistory.

Like the US pullout of Lebanon that was preceded by hand wringing and weepy wailing by many on the left.

Like the US pullout from Somalia that was preceded by more hand wringing, more weepy wailing and just a touch of Rep[rehensible] Murtha screaming the same redeployment tripe he has recently. It also prompted Osama to call the US and its military a "paper tiger" and gave jihadist-cut-throats of all stripes hope that by holding on the time would eventually come where the US would be forced out.

Funny... terrorists seem to have a better grasp of history, not to mention military strategy, than the leftist appeasement monkeys.

But you are correct in your last two sentences CB:

Ever heard you reap what you sow?

Sorry, but I must ask, are you for real?

And I'll add, idiot!

But of course you are right... (Below threshold)
robert the original:

But of course you are right, Murtha was not 100% wrong or 100% right about withdrawing the troops to Okinawa, just 100% crazy.

If this "Guest Posters" com... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

If this "Guest Posters" comments are supposed to be representative of the "liberal" point of view, then I would assume that liberals do not believe that people deserve a trial before being declared guilty. The Marines have only been charged and that only done quite recently. NO trial has yet been held yet.

Murtha's comments, obviously not only preceded the charges but an investigation being completed. If he is "100 right" as the poster alleges, then - apparently - this poster not only doesn't believe in trials, but in investigations of the facts of the case.

Therefore I have the following questions:

1. Is this poster representative of the "liberal" POV? I noticed a couple of people who claimed to be liberal disssenting with the poster, but it wasn't clear if they dissented with the opinion or his form.

2. Why does this poster not believe Marines are even deserving of an investigation?

3. Why does this poster not believe Marines are not deserving of a trial?

4. Does this poster believe only Marines are not deserving of an investigation and trial or does he also believe "other" Americans are also not deserving of those things? Which Americans does he believe should be excluded from Constitutional protections?

5. Why does this poster believe than Marines (and possibly others) are not deserving of the protections of the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights)?

I want to applaud Wizbang for posting this piece.

Well, actually, I originally thought that it was a little mean to do so and allow comments.

I skimmed the previous two entries and personally thought they were well done despite the fact I didn't agree with their POV 100%.

This attempt misused the offer to simply launch a personal attack on the very people who offered the opportunity. I haven't been a regular reader very long, but I don't recall that conservative posters received the same "guest poster" option that this individual did.

However, after further thought, I realized that *not* printing this piece or *not* allowing comments would have simply resulted in the poster in question attacking the editors for *hiding* something. They had no choice but to allow him to look foolish.

Well, the sun came up today... (Below threshold)
Jack Burton:

Well, the sun came up today, Saddam is dead, and Lee is still a douchebag. I guess that pretty much sums it up from today to eternity.

And old "pucker puss" (lee ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

And old "pucker puss" (lee lee) still smells like an old dirty "sock".

I'm so glad that <a href="h... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I'm so glad that Jack Burton found his rightful place next to jhow66 as troll du juor - but Jack, you can expect some heat from Mitchell, who to this day still longs to be as "cool" as jhow66. Good luck!

Private to Jack: I'm really sorry I made you out to look like a total jackass yesterday -- please forgive me. The realization that you will now troll the bottom 40 of the Wizbang comment threads, tossing out well-thought zingers like the doucebag commnet above, pains me greatly. You are a great American, Jack - even if you are a sick, twisted piece of dung, and I feel awful that you now have been reduced to being jhow66's straight man.... just awful.

Hmmmmmm .... Lee, ... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

Hmmmmmm ....

Lee, I have no idea who "Jack" is, but trust me:

He isn't the one you made "to look like a total jackass yesterday".

;-)

Nice to know that old "puck... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Nice to know that old "pucker puss" (lee lee) is feeling the heat. lol Seems to be getting more thin-skinned each day. And p'p', I don't want to have to tell you again that I am a troller-"one that trolls after trolls". Oh yeah ,I work alone so leave my fellow posters out of the rants when you cry about me. They know what you are, so they don't need me to help them. I am just a old retired person (72) that recognizes an asshole when he sees one. One of my hobbies is to kick assholes such as you when I get the chance. Seems to be working with you. When you started to answer my post that signaled that I was getting to you. Now after reading this if you stop answering it will signal that I have the succeeded in letting everyone know what you are. A__________ (everyone feel free to fill in the blank.

Hey Wild WQillieTh... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Hey Wild WQillie

There's been $100K on the table for the past 4 years for anyone who can prove Georgie met his military obligations.

But this is america, and the last thing anyone will do is come forward for cash. (eyes rolling).

Sorry Jack Burton, et al.
If you take the moral high ground, you can't just act immorally and hope your arguement holds.

jhow66 wrote:"N... (Below threshold)
Lee:

jhow66 wrote:

"Now after reading this if you stop answering it will signal that I have the succeeded in letting everyone know what you are."

"A__________ (everyone feel free to fill in the blank."

I'll fill in the blank. "Adult" - try it sometime.

You may need medications to help you reach adulthood again, jhow66. Talk to your family members and let them help you.

If you don't have family members with whom you feel comfortable talking to about your situation, there are people available, typically at the county level, who are very well versed in dealing with the elderly in crisis. Ask your local librarian to help you find the right office to call.

But get the help you need and then come back stronger then ever, and beat me up some more.

Happy New Year jhow66. I hope 2007 is a great year for you.

Forgive me if this has alre... (Below threshold)

Forgive me if this has already been said, I haven't had time to read all of the comments...

A lib troll is given the unheard-of liberty to leap from the anonymity of comments into prime time with his own front-and-center post. He has the opportunity to make his points, back them up with facts, links, and sources, and generally impress everyone with his heretofore unappreciated knowledge.

And this tripe is all he can scrounge up? A post full of air quotes, with no factual evidence, and a sweeping announcement at the end that our "complete wrongness is official." OFFICIAL? Was there a trial and conviction over Christmas that none of us heard about? I'm following Haditha closer than white on rice, and I guarantee you that nothing is official. Far from it.

JP2 has failed to realize what my children learned at a very young age: saying something is so does NOT MAKE IT SO. This leads me to ask, how old is JP2 anyway? His logic is languishing at an early-elementary level, and his research and writing skills are non-existent.

JP2's mindless arogance is only exceeded by his vapid ignorance. What a waste of space and bandwidth.

Whoops, one more thing...</... (Below threshold)

Whoops, one more thing...

I just saw that Brian is claiming that John Kerry volunteered for Vietnam. The oft-repeated claim that Kerry "volunteered" is highly misleading. Kerry's draft number came up and he immediately applied for a draft deferment. Only after his draft deferment was denied did he volunteer for the Navy to avoid being drafted into the Army.

Furthermore, Kerry collected three Purple Hearts within 100 days -- all for wounds too minor to require any hospitalization whatsoever. He's not only a hypocrite, but a total farce.

GOT YOU!!!!! Damned if you... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

GOT YOU!!!!! Damned if you do amd damned if you don't. Oh yeah you left out one word in the blank--Asshole. For your info I take my medicine morning and night. If you keep up your posting with what you try to write now, you may be able to take over for Chris "crybaby" Matthews or Keith "lardhair" Olberman as attack dogs for the left. Still nice to know that I get under your thin skin. For your New Years things to do why not get a key board that has two "ditto" keys on it. It would save you alot of time. Also it would give you more time to have more "socks".




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy