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The Day the Duke Case Died

Mark today on your calender. The Duke rape case, which has been in persistent vegetative state for months now, has officially flat-lined.

The accuser has changer her story yet again but ironically this time she seals her own fate. In an attempt to make her story more plausible in light of the known facts, she changed her story a bit too conveniently. And then digs herself a deeper hole.

Accuser changes story in lacrosse case

In her latest statement to investigators, the accuser in the Duke lacrosse rape case changed her account again about when the alleged gang rape occurred, who attacked her and how. ...

The woman adjusted the timing of the assault to earlier in the evening, a time point preceding the well-documented alibi of one accused player, Reade Seligmann. The defense, however, introduced yet more alibi evidence for Seligmann: he was on the cell phone with his girlfriend during the height of the attack as the accuser now times it. [ooops -ed]

The new version of the events comes from a Dec. 21 interview by Linwood Wilson, chief investigator for Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong. The statement marked the first time anyone from the District Attorney's office discussed the case with the woman since charges were filed in April. The interview came less than a week after a private laboratory director testified that he and Nifong agreed not to report DNA evidence favorable to the three accused players. ...

The statement layers new and contradictory accounts over the woman's previous statements:

* In her latest statement she said the attack ended at midnight.

In previous accounts, the woman said the gang-rape ended shortly before she left in the car driven by Kim Roberts, the second dancer. Roberts called 911 as she was driving away at 12:53 a.m., according to police records. This new account leaves 50 minutes unaccounted between the end of the rape and the departure from the party.

The new statement runs contrary to time stamped photos of the party, which show the two women dancing between 12:00 and 12:04 a.m. in the living room of the house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd.

* In the latest statement, the woman says she arrived at the party at 11:10 p.m. on March 13 and that the rape began at 11:40 p.m. Her cell phone records show that she was on phone with her father and others up to one minute before the rape allegedly started.

* The woman now said her alleged assailants used multiple names.

In previous accounts, she said she was assaulted by three men named "Adam", "Brett" and "Matt." She has given conflicting descriptions of the three men and contradictory accounts of how they assaulted her.

In the Dec. 21 interview, she said for the first time that the players used multiple names. "Dan, Adam and Brett was used by Dave Evans," Wilson wrote. "Adam and Matt was also used by Reade Seligmann. She does not remember a name being used for Collin Finnerty or if he was called by a name."

* The accuser has changed her description of Evans. On April 4, she viewed a photograph of Evans and said it looked like one of her assailants, except that the assailant had a moustache. In the Dec. 21 statement, the woman said the assailant had a five o'clock shadow, not a moustache. Evans has a visible five o'clock shadow in the photograph. [How convenient. ed]

* In her recent statement, the woman said that Evans stood in front of her and made her perform sex on him. In past statements, she said that Seligmann did this.

What a tangled web she has woven.

If Nifong where smart -which he isn't- he would immediately call a press conference to announce he has dropped the case and blame the whole thing on this new statement saying that he'd like to prosecute the case but considering the witness, he'll never get a conviction. Which he won't.

Nobody -except for racists like David Scott Anderson- believes a word this woman says.

Nifong isn't smart enough to see this as a face-saving opportunity. He'll go down in a ball of flames. But make no mistake, whatever legs this case still had are gone as of today.

Update: It looks like David Scott Anderson -the biggest racist in the blogosphere- finally admitted he was wrong. He's still a racist but at least he got something right.


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Comments (77)

But, Paul, remember Nifong'... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

But, Paul, remember Nifong's standard for prosecuting a case: He HAS to present a case if an accuser says something happened. Remember, in Nifong-land, no need for prosecutorial discretion.

Justice58, and some of the crackpots here, may find other ways to rationalize this (maybe she thought it was daylight savings time change, etc???), but the woman is not only a liar, but is clearly delusional and couldn't possibly be a credible witness in her own case. She's the ONLY WITNESS in the case for the prosecution.

Typing too fast this mornin... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Typing too fast this morning no doubt.

yet again bit ironically

but considering the witness. he'll never get a conviction.

Nobody -expect for racists

And I shouldn't even mention that it really should be woven instead of weaved, and face saving should be hyphenated.

Sorry, I edit the writing of engineers all the time. Please delete this comment after you see it.

Nifong needs to be prosecut... (Below threshold)
Joe:

Nifong needs to be prosecuted and disbarred for what he has done.

This young lady will... (Below threshold)
ramona:


This young lady will NEVER survive cross examination!

At this point, it seems lik... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

At this point, it seems like Nifong is coaching her answers to try and answer some of the evidence that has shot the case to hell.

Disbarment is no longer punishment enough for him.
-=Mike

>Typing too fast this morni... (Below threshold)
That busy guy (Paul):

>Typing too fast this morning no doubt.

Busted

>yet again bit ironically

Thanks

>but considering the witness. he'll never get a conviction.

You know that comma and the period look a lot alike when you're sleepy and busy. ;-) (The worst part is my eye caught that and I said "Oh no, that's a comma." Opps)

>Nobody -expect for racists

Yep. Typing too fact. But he's still a racist.


>And I shouldn't even mention that it really should be woven instead of weaved, and face saving should be hyphenated.

Yeah but I'm going with weaved anyway. (poetic lic) It matches the original phrase more betterer.

>Sorry, I edit the writing of engineers all the time.

Where were you when I was in EE school?

>Please delete this comment after you see it.

Naw I earned it. ... Thanks

But I'm going to act like a liberal and blame the spell checker that said there where no errors.

I'm a victim!

Thanks mantis

P

OK went with woven. Poetic ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

OK went with woven. Poetic License only goes so far. ;-)

tks

Mike may have a point. Mos... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Mike may have a point. Most "accusers" like this one would jump at the chance to get out of the duty to testify; they know they're on shaky ground and who wants to get into the DNA found in your own underpants?

It may be that the slack-jaw investigator went to her and made asked some leading questions to try to get the "right" answer. If so, it's another ethical lapse among the countless others from this DA.

I don't think Nifong could be any stupider. What did they teach us in grade school about Aristotelian tragedies, hubris, etc??? Good Lord.

Mitchell, have you noticed ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Mitchell, have you noticed that it's been a long time since we heard from Justice58, Field-Negro, et al about this case? I miss their profound wisdom on how guilty the Lax players are and how it's such an open and shut case.

Well Well Well.. Mitchell..... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Well Well Well.. Mitchell.. Eric

Say it ain't so.....you missed me!.. you missed me!

I have to tell ya, Mike's going to get their ass. No way in hell they're going to get off. The defense knows what's up.

And Happy New Year to ya!

>Mike's going to get their ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>Mike's going to get their ass.

ROFLMAO. What a buffoon.

UH PaulI assume yo... (Below threshold)
justice58:

UH Paul

I assume you think it's funny the dukes are going to be convicted and serve prison sentences!

I said it: Convicted. Mike Nifong will nail their ass to the wall. This is about justice being done.

Now if that shit is funny to ya...knock yourself out a hole.

Where were you when I wa... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Where were you when I was in EE school?

Well I'm not sure about your age but I'm guessing I was in grade school. ;)

Now if you'll excuse me I have to rewrite something for a chemical engineer for whom it seems English is at least a 4th language. If I can even call it English.

Funny? Dude, you passed fun... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Funny? Dude, you passed funny 10 blocks ago.

You're now so hysterical you're just about to the point you need to be committed.

Funny? Indeed.

>Well I'm not sure about yo... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>Well I'm not sure about your age but I'm guessing I was in grade school. ;)

Oh bite me. ;-)

Paul, J58 has a serious cas... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Paul, J58 has a serious case of race derangement syndrome. She needs the same meds the accuser needs, obviously.

J58, can't wait until the State Bar has its trial of Nifong. Are you as interested in that one as this? Yee Haw!

Ah Justice58 is back. So J... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Ah Justice58 is back. So Justice58, what makes you so sure they are going to be convicted? What evidence is there that a crime even took place? Please enlighten us with your wisdom. Please tell us all of the evidence that makes you so certain of their guilt.

So does the 58 stand for yo... (Below threshold)
mantis:

So does the 58 stand for your age or IQ? I have a guess.

I remember early on in the ... (Below threshold)
justice58:

I remember early on in the case, the victim mentioned a guy not wanting to participate in the rape because he was getting married. So now we know "he" watched. Nifong should charge him for not trying to stop the assault. HMMMMM... could that be the reason he hauled ass in order to create an alibi.


The victim stated all of this in the beginning.And it was reported early on about DE's DNA being found on a towel. The victim did say, he wiped her down. So I don't see where she changed ANYTHING.

Sorry Charlie.

I think SOMETHING happened ... (Below threshold)
Mikey:

I think SOMETHING happened to this woman, before she arrived at this party but she's afraid to say. maybe her previous gig roofie'd her up and
she has a vague memory of being raped or assulted.

At the lax party, her buttons were pushed by these guys (hey, your not here to just dance) and she left after the secondary transaction didn't occur because they wouldn't pay more. She was wasted and had an axe to grind so she played the victim card "these rich white guys did it"..

I'm curious to find out if she was assaulted and by whom and if they will be prosecuted.

MantisNo No.... 58... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Mantis

No No.... 58 is NOT my age. I know it makes you wonder what the 58 stands for but that's my secret. I don't kiss & tell....unless it's the dukes involved.

Wow, J58, I sure hope you d... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Wow, J58, I sure hope you don't operate heavy machinery, or a car, with that thinking of yours.

You are the Anti-Perry Mason.

I think Nifong should resig... (Below threshold)
Jo:

I think Nifong should resign and we need Patrick Fitzgerald on the case. They seem to be on the same wavelength lately as far as pursuing cases where there is no there there.

I remember early on in t... (Below threshold)
Eric:

I remember early on in the case, the victim mentioned a guy not wanting to participate in the rape because he was getting married. So now we know "he" watched. Nifong should charge him for not trying to stop the assault. HMMMMM... could that be the reason he hauled ass in order to create an alibi.

Except in her original version that person was Dave Evans not Seligman, she has changed who was getting married. She has also changed, who made her perform oral sex. Originally it was Seligman, now it is Dave Evans.

The victim stated all of this in the beginning.And it was reported early on about DE's DNA being found on a towel. The victim did say, he wiped her down. So I don't see where she changed ANYTHING.

Read the latest motion. She has changed the story about the towel many times over. The towel was found in another bathroom adjacent to Dave Evans bedroom so naturally it had the opportunity to have Dave Evans DNA on it.

The towel had only Dave Evans' and another unidentified person's DNA. It did not have the AV's DNA. So in her latest telling, her face and vagina were wiped, Dave Evans' penis was wiped and the floor was wiped. But the only DNA on the towel was Dave Evans and somebody not even there. The towel was able to magically wipe away from her body all of the DNA of the accused but leave behind the DNA of other 5 unidentified men on her body and yet not leave any of her DNA on the towel.

I know what the "58" in ... (Below threshold)
Betty Friedan:

I know what the "58" in justice58 stands for, it's your IQ.

Good post Eric! I love it how you keep your cool and just stick with the facts, while people of low IQs just rant and rave.

Watching this case I feel l... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Watching this case I feel like I am watching Nifong play Checkers while the defense team is playing Chess.

This motion is really a good example of how the defense team keeps putting Nifong into check. Nifong has no forensic evidence to support the allegation and no corroborating witness to support the allegation.

So the defense pushed Nifong to admit that his case rests solely on the word of the AV.

Now you have this motion as a supplement to the line-up motion to suppress the witness as unreliable. If the judge determines that she is unreliable then it's checkmate. Nifong has NO other evidence.

I firmly believe that Nifon... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

I firmly believe that Nifong is trying to save himself by continuing to push this thing. Hear me out.

If he drops the charges, it is an admission that he screwed this up royally from the very beginning. He is toast from all sides. Of course, the rich, white folks hate him for falsely accusing three good boys. The black folks hate him for not seeing the poor stripper girl get justice.

However, if he keeps pushing this, it could play to his advantage. If the judeg thrwos out the lineup ID (which could very easily happen,) he has the perfect out. The police (and not Nifong) screwed up the one piece of evidence he had. Without that, he can't win, so he drops the charges. He (Nifong) isn't to blame; it's the cops. The white folks are still mad, but he has appeased the black folks without really doing anything.

If he keeps it going to trial, he'll lose. He can blame it on the police. He can blame it on the jury. He can blame it on the lack of evidence. He can blame it on about everything. Once again, black folks might not be happy, but they won't be able to directly pin their hatred on him.

Were he to get lucky at trial, he could win. He could end up with a jury who believes that, despite evidence to the contrary, these boys must have done something bad, so they should go to jail. Only the white folks are angry with that one, so again, he compes out ahead.

Nifong is a weasel, no doubt. I believe when he told the lab to suppress the DNA evidence he corssed the Rubicon and is steadily marching towards Rome. We should know soon whether how he will end the campaign.

Very good point Steve L, to... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Very good point Steve L, to expand on that. If the AV's testimony falls apart on the stand then he can put it all on her as well.

This may be Nifong's strategy, but at the end of the day it is still going to cost him everything. The Bar still has the opportunity to file numerous other ethics charges against him, for the lineup, for the failure to turn over exculpatory evidence, lying to the judge, etc.

There is the high probability of civil suits too.

When the case is dropped, I... (Below threshold)
snurfle:

When the case is dropped, I believe that Ms Crystal Mangum should be liable for the Duke students' defense costs as a result of this.
I would be happy to see her sued for defamation, slander, and anything the D.A.'s office wants to add to the bill as well.

If the laws of NC permit th... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

If the laws of NC permit this, I see Duke getting hit with a very large damage suit with punitive damages as well. And from what I've read about their conduct it's a good bet their D & O insurance will not cover them. They are going to have a real hard sell at the next major fund raising drive from the alumni to say the least. Duke's conduct just might be egregious enough for the plaintiffs to sue the IRS to strip them of their charitable and tax exempt status. That would be truly sweet.

As for Nifong if he did coerce the lab and deliberately withhold evidence from the defense, he too might be in a world of personal civil liability. Especially if the plaintiffs were to also sue to have the county and state from paying for his defense.

I hope to see headlines lik... (Below threshold)
pretzel_logic:

I hope to see headlines like this daily for some time to come!

wrong thread sorry--shouldv... (Below threshold)
pretzel_logic:

wrong thread sorry--shouldve been the Iran thread

For Mr. Justice, let's look... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

For Mr. Justice, let's look at this case.

The stripper initally goes into graphic detail about how anywhere from 3 to 20 men raped her and violated virtually any orifice they could find on her. She then changed her story and can't remember being penetrated at all.

She said she left the party after it happened. Now, she says she left FIFTY MINUTES or so after it happened.

She said men named "Dan" and "Brett" assaulted her --- and now she says that they are, in fact, THE SAME PERSON (Dave Evans --- who ALSO went by "Dave" occasionally in her new story). But, no, she didn't tell the police it was one man who did it. She always claimed two.

She said they ejaculated in her. Suffice to say no DNA from the party-goers was found.

Nor was any found on the towel she claimed they wiped her up with.

Nor can she explain how they wiped away THEIR DNA but not the DNA of the roughly 5 other men that was stored inside her.

She was, apparently, talking to her father 7 minutes before she was dancing and WHILE SHE WAS BEING RAPED as there are cell phone records to back this up.

One of the rapists was, apparently, talking to his girlfriend on the phone WHILE raping her. He's talented.

Nifong has already been nailed for suppressing evidence quite illegally.

Her identification already is likely to be thrown out since the line-up was conducted horribly (you HAVE to have guys in the line-up who couldn't have possibly been there and that didn't happen). You have Nifong suppressing evidence. You have the other dancer doubting her story. You have every shred of evidence going against the stripper.

But, in the world of justice58, her being black trumps factual reality.
-=Mike

<a href="http://wral.com/ne... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Here are the investigators type written notes from Dec 21 interview with AV.

Question 10:What time did the rape start?
Answer: 3 to 5 minutes after going back inside, around 11:40 PM

Question 11: How long did the rape last and what time did it stop?
Answer: 10 - 15 minutes, ended about 12:00 midnight

Timestamped photos have her dancing after midnight and a neighbor told investigators that he watched the dancers from 11:50 to 12:00 when they entered. According to the AV she started dancing 2-5 minutes after entering the house. This corresponds with the timestamped pictures.

So is she mistaken about the time or is she lying?

J58 reminds me of an old Ed... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

J58 reminds me of an old Eddie Murphy sketch on SNL (and I feel old that EM's days on SNL are now considered old), where Eddie is playing a reggae singer who has a song that goes
"We goin to kill the white people... yeah, gonna make them hurt. Kill the white people. Ohhh yeahh"

Or something rather close to that.

ahh good times, yet another... (Below threshold)
Stef:

ahh good times, yet another nail in the coffin. how long until this bullshit ends, i wonder...

i cant even begin to understand what the accuser is doing...she should just be like ¨look i dont remember´and save herself th eembarrassment of being proven a liar on the stand...she has changed her story so many times.

ps, seligmann isn´t engaged nor is he getting married. however, i find it possible that the accuser thought saying ¨he said he was getting married¨ made it sound more like someone did something because she thought it was a bachelor party...so someone HAD to have been getting married, and she could have just accused him. but seeing as it wasnt a bachelor party, no one would bother saying ïm getting married¨. Accuser denied.

ugh, what a disgusting liar...can she be charged with something for lying in this case? or no? I really hope so, she is just as bad as nifong. i hope they both get a prison cell together.

Paul, I think you just have... (Below threshold)
Ken:

Paul, I think you just haven't waited long enough. If Nifong has any brains (which he may not have) his only concern for the last month HAS been how to get out of this without having his pockets emptied by the defendants. I'll bet within a day or two, he'll put out a well crafted statement that will both drop the case and create plausible deniability that he had a real reason to believe the charges until this last development.

Ken: I really don't think s... (Below threshold)
Cousin Dave:

Ken: I really don't think so. The problem is, there is a picture of Nifong next to the word "pride" in the dictionary. He's going to go down with the ship because, in his own mind, he did everything right. I really think he believes that.

listenThe damn duk... (Below threshold)
justice58:

listen

The damn duke liars are the ones who concocted the lie about the bachelor party. The victim stated this months ago. Well, we're seeing their lies unfold.

You f-ups are ignoring the fact the dukes lied about who the party was for, who they were, & how many were to attend the party. What about those fantastic lies? That tells me they had evil intentions in mind. Even early on...she said somebody wiped her down. The DUKES were trying to outsmart the police but failed miserably. They thought..."she's just a stripper" and no one would pay any attention to her. But...they got tricked! Something happened in that house and it wasn't just dancing naked.


Oh and MikeSC: I hate to admit it but you're so right on your last statement. It wouldn't have been like that if the victim hadn't been put on trial. The defense came out playing dirty and I said "AH...HELL NO! The defense want to paint an ugly picture to taint potential jurors & we're NOT going for that BS.

She has supporters that care for her and want BOTH sides heard in a courtroom and let a jury decide.

ANNNNNNND- to have a person WATCH an assault take place and do nothing is so lowdown and dirty. As you know, the dukes had a thing for American Psycho and wanted to act out their fantasies with the black strippers. Their sorry ass should have gotten the white girls to fullfill their sick fantasies.

Stop being such f-ups and listen to the entire story.

Now that's just plain delus... (Below threshold)
Cousin Dave:

Now that's just plain delusional.

The damn duke liars are ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

The damn duke liars are the ones who concocted the lie about the bachelor party. The victim stated this months ago. Well, we're seeing their lies unfold.

Shellie, what does that have to do with anything?

I have asked you before, what evidence is there that a crime took place?

The alleged victim has changed her story numerous times and can't keep the facts straight. What makes you believe her?

The second dancer cannot corroborate the story.

There is no forensic evidence that corroborates the story.

What makes you think that a crime even took place?

"The defense came out pl... (Below threshold)
Eric:

"The defense came out playing dirty "

Defend that statement. How did the defense come out playing dirty? They aren't the ones who have been accused by the Bar association for ethical violations.

What exactly did the defense do that could be considered playing dirty? List some examples, or shut up.

I think that if they found ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

I think that if they found the DNA of five people on and in the womans body (none from the guys charged) she is not a very clean person, and no one wiped her down with anything. Sounds like the last two or three guys were playing in a garbage dump, of sorts. Not a legal angle, but the truth.

Watching this case I fee... (Below threshold)
Rufus T. Firefly:

Watching this case I feel like I am watching Nifong play Checkers while the defense team is playing Chess.

Heh. Watching this case is like watching Nifong play checkers while the defense team is shooting skeet.

As you know, the dukes had a thing for American Psycho and wanted to act out their fantasies with the black strippers.

You know, Mister Justice, if the agency had just delivered the white dancers that the party guys specified, instead of a black "escort girl" who was too blitzed to stand up much less dance, you wouldn't have anything to rant about.

Oh, by the way, Mister Justice, you keep saying that you believe "Precious" is telling the truth. Well, remember one thing: she stated quite unequivocally that she hadn't had sex for a week before the party. Of course, it's been established that she had the semen of five different men oozing around in various orifices ... Interesting standards of cleanliness sweet "Precious" must have, because if she's telling the truth all that "stuff" was ripening in there for a week.

mantis:<... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

mantis:


So does the 58 stand for your age or IQ? I have a guess.

justice58:


No No.... 58 is NOT my age.

Well, that's answers that. :)

LOL!Great post ... (Below threshold)
Betty Friedan:

LOL!

Great post Mike!

LOL!

Mantis LOL!!!

I've always knew justice58 sounded way too retarded, not meaning to offend retarded people, but I thought she was just acting stupid, at least now we know for sure that the "58" in Justice58 is her IQ score.

LOL!

Thanks justice58 for confirming what everyone kinda knew all along!

LOL!

RufusI take it you... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Rufus

I take it you don't have a woman on a regular basis... huh....hmmmm just what I thought. Sperm can survive several days in a woman in case you didn't know. Some men are just dumb. The only thing they know about women is jump on/off.. 12345 and out like a light. And... I am NOT a mister, Rufus. I am a woman and I think I know more than you about women.

Betty Friedan & Mantis... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Betty Friedan & Mantis

I'm not telling you what the 58 stands for. I have already stated it is my secret. Why are you so concerned about a damn number? Like I said before....such f-ups.

Betty..you're the king of F-ups!

MikeAnd you know w... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Mike

And you know what you can kiss!

You f-ups are ignoring t... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

You f-ups are ignoring the fact the dukes lied about who the party was for, who they were, & how many were to attend the party. What about those fantastic lies?

Yes. That is on the same level as levelling blatantly false charges of rape on somebody. Sure.

Hey, Adolf Hitler killed millions. Mother Theresa jaywalked once. Since they're BOTH lawbreakers, there is no moral difference, right?

Even early on...she said somebody wiped her down.

But left the semen of five other men on her and left no DNA on the towel? Note that they found PLENTY of DNA on her --- just none from the guys at the party.

Care to explain how that is, you know, possible?

Science tendsto disagree that it is, but I'll give you a chance to prove a whole-new hypothesis.

The DUKES were trying to outsmart the police but failed miserably. They thought..."she's just a stripper" and no one would pay any attention to her. But...they got tricked! Something happened in that house and it wasn't just dancing naked.

True. By most accounts, she was too drunk to dance.

Oh and MikeSC: I hate to admit it but you're so right on your last statement. It wouldn't have been like that if the victim hadn't been put on trial.

Those BASTARD athletes doing that evil thing of, you know, DEFENDING themselves from criminal charges that aren't true.

They should just accept them, right?

I wonder what happens to this mentality the next guy a white woman falsely accuses a black man of rape, ala Kobe Bryant?

The defense came out playing dirty and I said "AH...HELL NO! The defense want to paint an ugly picture to taint potential jurors & we're NOT going for that BS.

Justice, we know a few things.

There was plenty of DNA from men on the stripper. None came from any of the accused.

The DNA lab intentionally withheld evidence excusing the accused.

The stripper no longer can remember being penetrated.

The stripper now claims that the defendants used multiple aliases, which she NEVER claimed before.

Is there any point where you'll say "Hey, she might not be telling the truth here"?

She has supporters that care for her and want BOTH sides heard in a courtroom and let a jury decide.

Her supporters are bigots, plain and simple.

ANNNNNNND- to have a person WATCH an assault take place and do nothing is so lowdown and dirty. As you know, the dukes had a thing for American Psycho and wanted to act out their fantasies with the black strippers. Their sorry ass should have gotten the white girls to fullfill their sick fantasies.

Stop being such f-ups and listen to the entire story.

Sounds like you need to hear the whole story.

We KNOW what Nifong has since he is required to turn it over --- correction: since Nifong ALREADY has a track record of withholding evidence that hurts his case (which, mind you, is quite unethical and will likely lead to the DNA lab losing its accreditiation and can lead to criminal charges against the lab director), we don't know what all he has that undermines his case.

What we know so far destroys it.

The case, in no way, can remotely lead to any prosecution.

You have a line-up that violated numerous required procedures of the Durham P.D. So that will be tossed.

You have no DNA to tie the defendants to the crime.

You have nothing AT ALL to tie them to anything outside of the rapidly disintegrating story of a stripper.

You have numerous phone calls by the stripper and boys right before, during, and after the fictional assault.

You don't have a case.

But since it's a black girl, she can't POSSIBLY be lying. Hell, string those white boys up just for the heck of it, right?

I take it you don't have a woman on a regular basis... huh....hmmmm just what I thought. Sperm can survive several days in a woman in case you didn't know.

Not for a week. And, again, how would you "wipe her off" without removing any of the other fluids and without putting any of the DNA on the towel you wiped her off with?

The only thing they know about women is jump on/off.. 12345 and out like a light. And... I am NOT a mister, Rufus. I am a woman and I think I know more than you about women.

You are just a racist. That's the reality of the situation here. If the races were reversed, you'd be howling about what a travesty of justice it was ---- just as I did when Kobe was absurdly prosecuted for something he didn't do, either.

And you know what you can kiss!

My fiancee and her child. Yeah, I'm quite aware.
-=Mike

I'll just repeat something ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

I'll just repeat something that a comedian said:

Thanks to Nifong, the only men we know for a fact could not have POSSIBLY impregnated the stripper are the men she accused of raping her.
-=Mike

I wonder what J58 is going ... (Below threshold)
Desmothenes:

I wonder what J58 is going to do when Nifong is put on trial. By the way, he hired a lawyer, so "he must be guilty."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1134166/

J58 you crack me up, your inane posts definitely make me laugh at how people can be so ignorant that they can be humorous.

J58 reminds me of an old... (Below threshold)
mantis:

J58 reminds me of an old Eddie Murphy sketch on SNL (and I feel old that EM's days on SNL are now considered old), where Eddie is playing a reggae singer who has a song that goes
"We goin to kill the white people... yeah, gonna make them hurt. Kill the white people. Ohhh yeahh"

You mean this one?

And don't forget this one with Garrett Morris.

How does someone of such li... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

How does someone of such limited capacity like J58 even find this website, much less figure out how to use a computer.

She has the reasoning skills of my Spaniel. But I am sure my Spaniel is nicer, and better looking.

How do you engage someone in a factual debate when her mind is so cluttered with irrelevancies?

Good God, if I had that mind, I'd keep it hidden somewhere, lest it betray a terrible ignorance on my part.

By the way, Mr. Nifong's de... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

By the way, Mr. Nifong's defense attorney in the State Bar case is listed in Best Lawyers in America.

At least on the way out of this profession, he'll meet a lawyer who might educate him as to why Nifong is one of the Worst Lawyers in America.

So he's got that going for him.

justice58 we are supposed t... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

justice58 we are supposed to believe a crack whore with the semen of 5 men in her, none of which is from the accused, just because she is black?
Somewhere there is a nuthouse missing an inmate.
Just curious what is the color of the sky of your planet?

not only did the DNA NOT... (Below threshold)
Betty:

not only did the DNA NOT match any of the accused, none of the DNA matched anyone on the lacrosse team or her boyfriend!

"How does someone of such limited capacity like J58 even find this website, much less figure out how to use a computer." Posted by: Mitchell at January 11, 2007 11:25 PM

LOL!

You may have to draw her a picture, you do know J58 (i.e.IQ58) is not very bright.

By the way, Mr. Nifong's... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

By the way, Mr. Nifong's defense attorney in the State Bar case is listed in Best Lawyers in America.

I hope this guy has Nifing pay him up-front. A job at Burger King doesn't pay much when you have big legal bills.

She has the reasoning sk... (Below threshold)
Eric:

She has the reasoning skills of my Spaniel. But I am sure my Spaniel is nicer, and better looking.

You be the judge.

Sperm can survive severa... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Sperm can survive several days in a woman in case you didn't know. Some men are just dumb.

Justice58, your point is counterproductive. So that can explain the other men she had sex with, but it doesn't explain why she didn't have any DNA from the accused.

First off, the issue is not live sperm or dead sperm, the issue is DNA. Which can include sperm whether alive or not, can include hair, or skin cells left behind. They didn't test for sperm they tested for DNA.

The fact is she claimed her only sexual contact prior to the alleged rape was with her boyfriend a week before. She had DNA from multiple males none of which were her boyfriend or the accused. So did she lie about that? Use the same standard you used about the "Duke liars".

No DNA from the accused was found on her body from samples taken within hours of the alleged rape. Yet there were DNA samples from others.

So, your next argument is that they didn't use a penis so that wouldn't leave any DNA. Good point, except for two things.

1) She isn't 100% sure that a penis was used in her vagina. However, she said several times that a penis was used, that they ejaculated in her mouth and that she had to spit it out. Seems to me that it's hard to get that wrong, either it happened or it didn't.

So according to her there should be DNA from the accused on her.

From her testimony, the accused had all kinds of physical contact with her. She alleges that she was gang raped by three men. Yet not a single cell of their DNA was found on her body. Seriously, how probable is that?

2) One of the things revealed in the Dec 15 hearing was that a single cell of Brian Meehan's DNA contaminated the tests. Think about that, in a careful laboratory environment Brian Meehan's DNA was able to get into the samples from her body. But none of the accused's DNA was there after three men allegedly raped, sodomized and made her perform oral sex on them.

There's more DNA evidence that Brian Meehan raped the AV than the accused.

"If the judge throws out th... (Below threshold)
locomotive breath:

"If the judge throws out the lineup ID (which could very easily happen,) he has the perfect out. The police (and not Nifong) screwed up the one piece of evidence he had."

Nifong appointed himself the chief investigator early in the case. The whole thing has been under his direction. He doesn't have this "out".

Eric, unbelievable find the... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Eric, unbelievable find there, J58's myspace site. Why is it that about everyone I've seen with a myspace page is either a youngster, or a fool, or both? It's powers to draw in the vapidly narcissistic is amazing.

Who woulda thunk J58 is a lesbian?! Wow, nice lesbo pictures there, J. No wonder you know women so well . . .

But obviously you don't know men as you'd know out of the "box" so to speak, that a Duke man would never stick his what-nots or any of his personal property into a two-bit crack whore.

Eric, I will have to keep my nose clean from now on as you are the super sleuth!

Oh, and Brian, to answer yo... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Oh, and Brian, to answer your question, yes, my Spaniel is better looking.

Mitchell & EricYou... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Mitchell & Eric

You are some dumb fucks! I've seen that myspace site and I LAUGH in your face. That's a MF WHITE girl. I'm certainly NOT white. Last time I checked, I am definately BLACK....And my husband is WHITE man. But, enough about my personal life. You SOB's sure are trying to find out some info on me. Why don't you engage in some conversations with this white girl on myspace and see if she's determined as I am in supporting the duke rape victim. Not no...but Hell noooooo to the lesbian crap. I love "****" too f'ing much...MF. I've had the name justice58 way before I came across the site. Sorry bitch, but you lose...aggggain.

AND Mitchell... what the hell do you mean, how did I find wizbang? Oooh...are blacks not to know of such things. Your stupid ignorance is beyond me. You have a stupid mentality of black people and you need to be educated more about different cultures before you start the ignorant rantings.

Despite my "stupid ignoranc... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Despite my "stupid ignorance," I'm still me, and you're still you.

We have a resident troll here that you could have fun with, and really should meet one day. His name is "Lee." You two were made for each other.

And I think he's white, like your poor husband.

MitchellWhat's lee... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Mitchell

What's lee being white got to do with anything?Why use the phrase "like your poor husband"
My husband is very happy... I keep him that way. We are made for each other, although my husband thinks writing on blogs is a waste of time.

SO...again you are wrong about me being stuck on the race issue. I don't think racist people marry and have babies together. I believe the duke rape victim b/c no woman would put herself through all this humiliation if it wasn't true. I take her word for it and that's enough. White boys can lie too and they did from the very beginning. It's amazing when something comes back and bite you (dukes) in the ass.

Funny, I don't remember whe... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Funny, I don't remember when black folks became exempt from lying. When was that.

And J58, I am married to someone outside my race--she is not white.

So, besides being completely irrelevant of you to bring up, it is inapposite as it relates to me.

Good day, Mistress of Confusion.

I wonder what J58 has to sa... (Below threshold)
Desmothenes:

I wonder what J58 has to say about this little story.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2791514

That's right Nifong is off the case. Gee must suck to be you to be wrong yet AGAIN! Oh well, you think the special prosecutor will continue with this farcical excuse for a case?

"It's a white man's conspir... (Below threshold)
Eric:

"It's a white man's conspiracy. The fix is in. The Duke boyz money bought them freedom. No justice no hope. Truth to power."

(Just beating Justice58 to the punch)

Yeah you're probably right ... (Below threshold)
Desmothenes:

Yeah you're probably right Eric. Oh well, it will be funny to watch her screech to high heaven about the injustice of it all.

EricYou know it's ... (Below threshold)
justice58:

Eric

You know it's true!

Mike may be off the case but the CHARGES are still intact. Mike could have dropped all charges but noooo. He wants another prosecutor to take a look at the files. This "ain't" over yet, and you know it as well. It doesn't mean anything about who the prosecutor is. What matters is the case goes to trial. I'm not mad at all.

I bet I burst your bubble!

This case will never go to ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

This case will never go to trial. My prediction is that a new prosecutor will be named within the next two weeks. At the Feb 5 hearing the new prosecutor will ask for a continuance. The judge will deny the continuance on the grounds that this delay is not caused by the defendents but instead places an unfair burden upon them. The judge then dismisses the charges, inviting the new prosecutor to refile after he has had time to investigate the original allegations.

The new prosecutor then takes several months to investigate ultimately coming to the conclusion that the evidence does not merit refiling the charges.

AND Mitchell... what the... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

AND Mitchell... what the hell do you mean, how did I find wizbang? Oooh...are blacks not to know of such things.

No. Just you.

You have a stupid mentality of black people and you need to be educated more about different cultures before you start the ignorant rantings.

Considering that you seem like a gimmick as it is, you're in poor position to educate.

I don't think racist people marry and have babies together.

Strom Thurmond did. Well, he didn't marry her --- but he had no problem knocking her up.

I believe the duke rape victim b/c no woman would put herself through all this humiliation if it wasn't true.

You mean like Kobe's accuser?

Heck, Tawana Brawler embarrassed herself worse than this.

I take her word for it and that's enough.

I'll stick with every shred of evidence out there. You can stick with a constantly changing story.

White boys can lie too and they did from the very beginning. It's amazing when something comes back and bite you (dukes) in the ass.

Well, Duke will suffer as the University will be sued into oblivion.

As will the city of Durham.

And Nifong personally.

Heck, the stripper, too.

Mike may be off the case but the CHARGES are still intact.

Seeing as how nobody but Nifong and Duke's (let's be honest here) less-than-intellectually-rigorous faculty members buy a shred of this story.

Mike could have dropped all charges but noooo. He wants another prosecutor to take a look at the files.

Mike doesn't want to anger the bigots who put him in power. He also has his own legal defense to prepare for her because the dude has problems.

This "ain't" over yet, and you know it as well. It doesn't mean anything about who the prosecutor is. What matters is the case goes to trial. I'm not mad at all.

OK, justice, explain to me how the verdict can possibly go the stripper's way.

Her ID will not be permitted. Not a chance in hell of that.

No evidence exists of the crime.

There is, literally, no corroboration to her story.

She has hardly proven herself to be reliable.

So --- what are you holding on to? Her being black?
-=Mike

MikeSC"Strom Thurm... (Below threshold)
justice58:

MikeSC

"Strom Thurmond did. Well, he didn't marry her --- but he had no problem knocking her up".

Strom Thurmond wasn't a true racist. He just fooled the white folks so he could be in government. He was slick. Snowballed the hell out of the white people. And he made sure he supported his child...that's one good thing that he did own up to her being his child.

OOOh yes this case will go to trial. The white dukes are NOT getting off this easy. Are you really that foolish? Come now, don't kid yourself.

Mike...how can the dukes sue when they committed a crime and are in prison doing hard time. There is a differnce between time and hard time. They better get ready.

Night Night

Eh, Paul. You need to check... (Below threshold)

Eh, Paul. You need to check your facts, I called for Nifong's firing and the prosecution of the "victim," in December. What is up with you and your obsession with me. Hell I had forgotten you even existed. You have been discredited so many times... Take a chill pill, relax and stop drinking swamp water.

Strom Thurmond wasn't a ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Strom Thurmond wasn't a true racist.

Filibustering civil rights laws is not being racist?

*remembers the Dems champion Robert Byrd as well*

...hmm, I suppose not.

He just fooled the white folks so he could be in government. He was slick.

Yes. The one word I'd have MOST used to describe Strom was "slick".

I'm fighting the urge to laugh maniacally out of respect for you. You're welcome.

Snowballed the hell out of the white people.

So, justice, don't know what "snowballing" is, do you?

And he made sure he supported his child...that's one good thing that he did own up to her being his child.

Yes, he took care of his child.

He was also quite a bigot when he bore her.

But, hey, live in a fantasy world if you so desire.

OOOh yes this case will go to trial. The white dukes are NOT getting off this easy. Are you really that foolish? Come now, don't kid yourself.

There is no case. We have the rapidly changing story of one apparently promiscuous as can be stripper against that whole pesky EVIDENCE thing.

Mike...how can the dukes sue when they committed a crime and are in prison doing hard time. There is a differnce between time and hard time. They better get ready.

Justice, I will put money down --- any amount you wish --- that the Duke players will get absolutely nothing and you will continue to claim they're guilty, even though there is no evidence, whatsoever, that they did anything.

Name the price.
-=Mike

You are some dumb fucks!... (Below threshold)
Eric:

You are some dumb fucks! I've seen that myspace site and I LAUGH in your face. That's a MF WHITE girl. I'm certainly NOT white. Last time I checked, I am definately BLACK....And my husband is WHITE man. But, enough about my personal life. You SOB's sure are trying to find out some info on me. Why don't you engage in some conversations with this white girl on myspace and see if she's determined as I am in supporting the duke rape victim. Not no...but Hell noooooo to the lesbian crap. I love "****" too f'ing much...MF. I've had the name justice58 way before I came across the site. Sorry bitch, but you lose...aggggain.

AND Mitchell... what the hell do you mean, how did I find wizbang? Oooh...are blacks not to know of such things. Your stupid ignorance is beyond me. You have a stupid mentality of black people and you need to be educated more about different cultures before you start the ignorant rantings.

No Mitchell wasn't questioning the mentality of black people. He was questioning the mentality of YOU.

Case in point, in the very same post you correct Mitchell for mistaking you for a white girl, you then berate him for thinking black people are stupid because he questioned your intelligence.

How could he be questioning the intelligence of all black people when he thought you were white?

The answer is because you are a stupid twit. I have argued with some intellectually vacuous people but I must say that you take the cake.

Frankly, you are not worth my time. I would rather argue with a 4 year old than with you. At least a four year could put together a decent argument and a coherent sentence.




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