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On "Paying the Price"

I agree with Kim that Barbara Boxer needs to apologize to Secretary Rice for her ridiculous rant about Rice not having to "pay the price" because she has no children. I would add that Boxer needs to apologize for a lot more than that though and from what I have seen, she is not big on apologies. So don't be holding your breath waiting for that one.

Rice, as usual, maintained her composure and did not rise to the hypocritical fake feminist's bait. I think I would have likely responded as Darleen says she would have:

Sister, not only will every American have something to pay if Islamists do as promised and start bringing their bombers here because you and the rest of the cut-n-runners want to surrender in Iraq, but you have some brass ovaries in suggesting that I'm somehow less authentic to speak on this issue because I haven't bred to your specifications. Real feminist solidarity there, bitch. And if you want to play the 'blood tie' card, let's talk about your grandfather paying for the boats that hauled my grandfather to the new world in chains, eh?
There is a very good reason that Condi Rice is in the position she is in. She can suffer fools like nobody's business.

The perspective of many on the left when it comes to looking at the loss of life in Iraq is something I touched on in my Townhall column today. My point was that people die of many different things and I think that to die serving your country gives that death, and that life, more meaning. On a personal level, the pain and devastation is the same for the families, but on a different level, there is more meaning in such a death, than in a death due to an auto accident, or a fatal disease. I am not just talking about military deaths either. I think the same way about a life lost by a police officer or firefighter in the line of duty.

I received the following email in response to that Townhall column:

(From a Vietnam combat veteran whose son is a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan)

You are absolutely right. More young adults have died as a result of crime, including DUIs in the last 12 months than have died in military service in the last five years. Therefore I advocate putting all our young people into the military and sending them to Iraq or Afghanistan. At least this way they'll be given weapons to defend themselves and they'll have a fighting chance.

My division alone lost more guys in one week in December of 1968 in Vietnam than all our forces in Iraq combined in the entire month of December, 2006, the so-called bloodiest month of this war. It's an unspeakable tragedy at the individual level for the families, but to call it a "meat-grinder" is ridiculous. Did we really think we could fight the War on Terror without casualties?

That's why so many combat veterans turn against their country, even when they served bravely and well. Most of the time they were the dreamers who became disillusioned when they realized they weren't in a John Wayne movie. I knew better and I made sure my son did too. I didn't turn against my country even though I was severely wounded and neither has my son.

See, here is the thing that I don't get. Obviously no one wants to even consider the death of a child and I hope that Barbara Boxer's kids and grandkids live to ripe old ages and peacfully die in their sleep. For some people, unfortunately, their lives or the lives of their loved ones will be cut short. Would Barbara Boxer prefer those deaths be at the hands of another 9/11 style attack, or the result of a suicide bombing on a bus, than in the line of duty, serving their fellow citizens?

Update: One point I forgot to make here is that Elizabeth Dole received some criticism during her run for the Presidency for not being a mother. I thought it was low then and that it is low now. And what does Boxer's comment say about all those who think Oprah would be the best president ever? Why is it that only liberal women who choose the feminist ideal lifestyle get any praise for it? Liberals evidently want to keep conservative women barefoot and pregnant. (I say that as someone who has been pregnant twice and is barefoot at the moment.)

Update II: The Anchroress has a great post pointing to the childless presidents, and has a really good roundup of reaction to Boxer's statements.

Hot Air has video, along with a great quote from Tony Snow.


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Comments (95)

I'm very glad that Iraq has... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

I'm very glad that Iraq hasn't cost as many lives as Vietnam -- yet. But that's missing the point. When lives are being lost NEEDLESSLY, that is the problem. WW2 cost many, many more lives than Vietnam or Iraq but no one questions that sacrifice because the war was imposed on us by enemy aggression, had clear goals to define victory, and was led competently at all levels. Neither Vietnam nor Iraq meet any of those standards and that's why Americans became sick and tired of the waste of lives and fortune in both cases.

blackcat - UM, "lead compet... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

blackcat - UM, "lead competently at all levels"? You, my friend, really need to read up on WWII history. While FDR and Gen. Marshall made a splendid team, there were PLENTY of disasters on our side in WWII -- many of them due to incompetence.

I thought it was funny! I'm... (Below threshold)
lynnette:

I thought it was funny! I'm an RN in the ed and we had a slow period and watched the hearing. There were 8 of us and we all burst out laughing and high fiving it for Boxer. Most here think that Boxer was being too polite and Condi deserves a lot less respect than she got. Give me a break. Condi Rice is a disgrace to the human race. Barbara Boxer deserves accolades. She shouldn't ever apologize!

blackcat77 you begin with a... (Below threshold)

blackcat77 you begin with a completely fallacious assumption - that the lives lost so far in the Iraq War were lost "needlessly". In the view of many Americans - and more important in the view of those whose lives are at risk in Iraq - there is no "needlessly" involved.

My nephew is in Iraq as we speak and many of my friends have children, brothers and sisters there. None of us consider it "needless" - including the family members who are in harm's way.

We consider this part of the price for the many freedoms and benefits we receive from the simple fact of being fortunate enough to be American citizens. If you don't, that's something you'll have to reconcile with your own conscience, but please do not attempt to lay YOUR situational ethics on those of us who have the real thing.

And as to enemy aggression - in what way was 9/11/01 different from Pearl Harbor? And do NOT bring up the nonsense about there being no weapons of mass destruction when paperwork subsequently unearthed in Iraq shows that they DID have them - just shipped them out to other nations for good hiding. Saddam's regime enabled terrorists around the world, up to and including paying suicide bombers to kill innocent and unarmed civilians.

Lynette,It's becau... (Below threshold)
tony:

Lynette,

It's because you're jerks who endorse and revel in the 'chickenhawk' canard, and you think that landing a rhetorical cheap shot is the same as a well thought out argument. You may be however old you are, but mentally, on this topic, you're puerile.

In the view of many Amer... (Below threshold)
Brian:

In the view of many Americans - and more important in the view of those whose lives are at risk in Iraq - there is no "needlessly" involved.

You are very wrong about this. Most Americans believe invading Iraq was a mistake, and even more believe that the loss of American lives was not worth it.

While a slight majority believe the Iraq war contributed to the long-term security of the United States, 70 percent of Americans think these gains have come at an "unacceptable" cost in military casualties. This led 56 percent to conclude that, given the cost, the conflict there was "not worth fighting"

I'm sorry your nephew is in Iraq, and I'm even more sorry that you seem to think that simply because he's a soldier and is willing to put his life on the line for his country, that means that any possible death he may face will automatically therefore have purpose. If Bush ordered him to jump off a cliff, he would be just as patriotic, but his death would be just as needless. I hope you don't need to learn that the hard way.

It's because you're jerk... (Below threshold)
Brian:

It's because you're jerks who endorse and revel in the 'chickenhawk' canard, and you think that landing a rhetorical cheap shot is the same as a well thought out argument. You may be however old you are, but mentally, on this topic, you're puerile.

Ummm... replace "chickenhawk" up there with "cut and runner" or "Defeatocrat" or any number of other "rhetorical cheap shots". Just do it while looking in a mirror.

Uh, I don't make those argu... (Below threshold)
Tony:

Uh, I don't make those arguments Brian. Way to stereotype. You look in the mirror.

PARENTSTeach your ... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

PARENTS

Teach your children well.

Thou shalt not kill living breathing humans.

Period.

PARENTSTeach your ... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

PARENTS

Teach your children well.

Thou shalt not kill living breathing humans.

Period.

Brian- who the F are you to... (Below threshold)
LJD:

Brian- who the F are you to tell any soldier's mother anyhting about the value of her son's service?
Stupid idiotic chickenshit bastard.

Lynette,I didn't kno... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

Lynette,
I didn't know The View was being broadcast from your medical facility yesterday.

Brian,Do you have an... (Below threshold)
Lorie:

Brian,
Do you have any understanding of the military? I am asking because you seem to think that a life lost in an unpopular war (that is the "argument" you made) is not of value or purpose. Do you feel the same way about the deaths of those in combat exercises here in the U.S.?

Unfortunately, those deaths, as the ones in Iraq, serve a valuable purpose. Even those who do not die fighting in combat contribute value because there are things learned through those deaths that translate to other conflicts in the future. Maybe you will see as pointless or senseless or of no value the deaths of those in Iraq, but there may be things learned through those deaths that can be used when your next Democrat president wants to pull a Mogadishu or go into a Kosovo without UN approval, or do some meals on wheels mission that you do support.

This might completely blow your mind, but there are also times that it is necessary we demonstrate that we are not too soft and spoiled to accept military casualties. We should always do everything possible to minimize them and to give our troops the equipment and support and the planning to keep them from getting killed, but when it does happen if the American people decide they would prefer to run than fight and risk additional caualties, our enemies will have gained the huge upper hand.

I fear we are close to that point now. If that is the case, Osama will have been proved right. He said the Americans were too soft to fight back and risk their lives and those of their loved ones. We thought we proved him wrong when we fought back after 9/11, but maybe our "fight" had a limit and 3,000 lives was it. I hope not, but if the current trend holds, fed everyday by a media that will only show one side of the story, then he might be proved right indeed.

Maybe now we know why peopl... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Maybe now we know why people have the wrong leg amputated, wrong knee operated on etc. No wonder health care is so bad, and malpractice insurance is so high.

blackcat77,<blockquot... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

blackcat77,

WW2 cost many, many more lives than Vietnam or Iraq but no one questions that sacrifice because the war was imposed on us by enemy aggression, had clear goals to define victory, and was led competently at all levels.

The part that I don't agree with is "led competently at all levels". On D-Day the U.S. suffered somewhere between 2500 and 4900 solders killed. To this day experts disagree on the number killed, but they all agree that many of those deaths were needlessly lost due to tragic blunders made by those in charge of the invasion.

After the equivalent of "Mission Complete" in WW2, the US spent billions of 1940's dollars rebuilding Japan and Europe with more than half a million troops occupying Japan and Germany. It took the U.S. the better part of a decade to complete the rebuilding and we still have 40,000 personnel stationed in Japan to this day and more in Germany.

Neither Vietnam nor Iraq meet any of those standards and that's why Americans became sick and tired of the waste of lives and fortune in both cases.

Remember, we got into Iraq the first time because Saddam invaded Kuwait. Not the same as Pearl Harbor, but the threat to Saudi Arabia and the oil our way of life depends on was all too real. Having handed Saddam an humiliating defeated and knowing the vengeful kind of person he was, it was a real risk leaving Saddam in power after the first Gulf war, but we were under the illusion the U.N. would actually be able to do what it was created to accomplish. We now know Saddam was able to so corrupt the U.N. that it became powerless to contain him. We also now know that Saddam didn't have stockpiles of WMD's, but that he retained his ability to produce them. Knowing what we now know, Bush was wise taking Saddam out while he had the chance. Otherwise, we would now be facing a Saddam out from under U.N. sanctions, bent on revenge and with new allies (terrorists) in attacking U.S. civilians. And you don't think the war in Iraq is important.

"Osama will have been pr... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Osama will have been proved right. He said the Americans were too soft to fight back and risk their lives and those of their loved ones."

We're not fighting Osama bin Laden. We're attempting to install a democracy in Iraq, and being hit on all sides. The vast majority of those fighting us have absolutely nothing to do with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda.

Our people, and the people of our allied nations, were all behind the fight to get Osama bin Laden. When Bush, and the Project for New American Century puppeteers behind the Bush administration, morphed that tremendous will and unity into a drive to paint the Middle East in His image, the mission had changed, and so did the will of the people behind it.

Quit trotting out the Osama boogeyman, Lorie -- you're beginning to sound like one of those lying Republican election ads. If you can't defend our presence in Iraq, say so... but pretending its related to OBL is disingenuous.

If Bush ordered h... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
If Bush ordered him to jump off a cliff, he would be just as patriotic, but his death would be just as needless

The leftists in this country are beginning to be embolden by their paltry November win. Their colors are beginning show through now.

Since those that join the military are too stupid to actually believe in their mission and liberal enlightened Brian here understands it's all for nothing if they die. Wow, just effing wow.

Yep, the liberal "I support the troops" really means letting you know how stupid and needless you with "boots on the ground" are for risking your life.

Telling soldiers that being told to jump off a cliff is as simplistic as deploying to Iraq is about as condescending and elitist as it gets. ASS!!

Barbara Boxer is amazing. A... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

Barbara Boxer is amazing. An anus that can speak.
If it wasn't for her husband's money she would a nobody. She is living proof that a brain is not required to be a Democrat Senator.

Condi Rice is in the pos... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Condi Rice is in the position she is in. She can suffer fools like nobody's business.. Lorie, you certainly have got that right . The President has said that he has felt comfortable "asking her the most basic of questions on foreign policy" back in 2000.

Posted comments coming fast... (Below threshold)
epador:

Posted comments coming fast and furious.

Lee, Lorie can quote anyone she wants, Osama or Obama, without invoking Iraq is the home of Al Qeda. Another either unconsciously stupid illogical progression of your argument, or a not very successful disingenuous attempt to hijack a thread and dis Lorie.

Steve: Gotta hand you two points on that comment, Lorie set herself up for that comment, though she shows she can suffer the slings and arrows from fools/trolls here at WB pretty well too...

Gianni, no need to muddle medical system woes with the fact that there are politically immature imbeciles working everywhere.

Cuban: BB - At least she's not a complete Ahole- she does have arms and legs...

Lorie: Keep up the good work! And the contributions you and your family make for our country.

civil behavior,<block... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

civil behavior,

Thou shalt not kill living breathing humans.

In the Bible the commandment is correctly translated "You shall not murder". There's a difference between kill and murder. If a police officer fatally shoots a criminal in the act of abducting a child it's an act of killing but not of murder.

I see that you added "breathing" to your version. Was that to justify murdering the unborn?

Mac Larry: Good points. T... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

Mac Larry: Good points. There were tactical blunders -- I just got done reading "Sea of Thunder" which went into detail about Halsey falling for a Japanese bluff and almost losing Leyte Gulf as a result -- but overall, we had a workable plan and stuck with it. With Iraq, it seems like we either have no plan at all or we're trying to make it up as we go. Either one is a recipe for disaster in a military campaign. Regarding Desert Storm, I think Daddy Bush got it right. He could see the dangers of occupying Iraq much more clearly than his son and thus when the objectives of the UN mandate were accomplished, he declared victory and went home. The fact is that after the 1991 war, Iraq never had the ability to wage offensive war on anybody. Their WMD programs were abandoned and Saddam was left to bluff. Unfortunately for him, B43 fell for the bluff -- or at least claimed that he did -- and invaded based on a threat that simply didn't exist. That upset the applecart for the whole mideast and has cost us half-a-trillion dollars and thousands of American lives to no good end. If I were Bush, Sr., I'd be feeling pretty smug about things.

blackcat77,The par... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

blackcat77,

The part you and I disagree on is what would the threat from Saddam be today if Bush had not taken him out in 2003. With the U.N. being successfully corrupted by Saddam, I believe most if not all the sanctions would have been removed by the end of 2004. We know Saddam suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of Bush Sr. and we know Saddam was a vengeful person. We also know Saddam retained his ability to make WMD's. Given all that, I believe Saddam would now be cooperating with terrorists and Iran to strike both the U.S. and Israel. While Saddam is gone permanently, it would still be a grave strategic mistake to lose in Iraq.

Some interesting arguments ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Some interesting arguments going on here. Let me just preface this by saying that I don't agree with Boxer at all. I'm sure Rice is well aware of what the sacrifices our military make mean to their families.

Lorie,

there are also times that it is necessary we demonstrate that we are not too soft and spoiled to accept military casualties.

That does blow my mind. I agree that the Iraq War, and any conflict, will yield valuable lessons for the next conflict (hopefully one of the lessons will be that fighting a hidden and entrenched guerrilla force is a recipe for endless conflict. Oh wait, we should have learned that in Vietnam), but the idea that it's necessary for us to engage in war simply to show we can is absurd. However it may reveal some of your thinking about this war in that it was not necessary from a security standpoint but rather from a readiness/machismo standpoint. Not only should we start wars just to show we can, but apparently we should do so because bin Laden dared us. What a load of childish crap. Grow up.

Civil BehaviorI've... (Below threshold)

Civil Behavior

I've taught my children not to murder and I've also told that never to feel guilty if they must kill "another human being" in self-defense or in defense of their family.

Which is in keeping with the Ten Commandments and is proper to a person who holds rational morality.

So making rational decision... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

So making rational decisions regarding what's best for the country requires one to have children ?

Boxer is now the Speaker of the House. Perhaps she should codify this by pushing legislation that forbids anyone who doesn't have children form holding public office ? Or is it just certain public offices that Boxer has a problem with ?

Lynnette?You're a ... (Below threshold)

Lynnette?

You're a moral fool.

And look over your shoulder, your moral betters, like my eldest daughter will be taking your job.

Mac: You're right about ou... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

Mac: You're right about our differing viewpoints. It's my belief that he was pretty much declawed after '91 and lacked the capacity to rebuild his war machine. It was a measure of how bad things were for him that he actually buried his fighter aircraft in the desert. And can you cite a situation where any dictator has cooperated with terrorists? The two are oil and water -- their operating principles are so different that they simply cannot work together because neither one will trust the other enough to accomplish anything. Beyond that, for Saddam to have become independently effective, he would have needed a huge infusion of capital and I don't know where it would have come from. I really believe that it was all over for Saddam at the close of Desert Storm just like it was all over for the Soviet Union when they abandoned Afghanistan. It's just that in both cases, it took a while for the fatality to become apparent.

However it may re... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
However it may reveal some of your thinking about this war in that it was not necessary from a security standpoint but rather from a readiness/machismo standpoint. Not only should we start wars just to show we can, but apparently we should do so because bin Laden dared us. What a load of childish crap. Grow up

The one thing the military isn't shy about is after action reviews. (AAR) Whenever someone dies in the military, whether training or in combat, all circumstances surrounding the death are reviewed, then a procedure is modified so it will not happen again.

There are of course exceptions such as airborne training operations, flying any type of aircraft and other hazardous duties that no matter what does not change because it's already inherently dangerous.

But an example of doctrinal change is in urban combat in Iraq, soldiers will not try to take a building after a shooter fires from it. The building is simply leveled. Someone's life was used as an example to modify the old procedures and many more will live. This may upset some politically correct liberal armchair generals about blowing up a building, but the kid gloves need to come off sometimes to save lives.

To insinuate that a fighting war is an opportunity to strut then either you are posting crap just to say anything to get someone's gander up or you really are a clueless lib. So either you're an ass or just plain stupid or a stupid ass.

I see that this indignant u... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

I see that this indignant uproaor about Ms Boxer has its origins in an editorial from The Post. Gee, I wonder how that happened. Murdoch's rag running to rescue Condie. That's original.

Where's the outrage about Ms Rice's participation in this complete disaster taking place in Iraq? She the principal architect of Mr Bush's folly. So, a politician should make nice to her? Give me a break.

The abscene of any meaninful discussion here about "The Surge" says it all. You can hear a pin drop in here.

Brian has zero credibility.... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Brian has zero credibility. Don't bother with him.

To insinuate that a figh... (Below threshold)
mantis:

To insinuate that a fighting war is an opportunity to strut

I didn't insinuate that, dipshit, Lorie did:

This might completely blow your mind, but there are also times that it is necessary we demonstrate that we are not too soft and spoiled to accept military casualties.

The rest of your response was entirely irrelevant to mine.

BlackCatMaybe Saddam... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

BlackCat
Maybe Saddam would have been declawed if it weren't for the feckless UN and the oil for food corruption.
Saddam still had plenty of money thanks to this, and what he didn't have hidden away waiting for the sanctions to end, he could quickly buy.

Hugh,
You provide that outrage daily. What's your point?

blackcat77 and Mac LOrry, G... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

blackcat77 and Mac LOrry, Good job! blackcat77 wins because Saddam was no global kingpin. Or even a whole IRAQI kingpin... Consolation prize for Mac Lorrey's ancillary Bible-thump upon cb, which Darleen sought to bid up for herself. (You're now in the hole, d)

I didn't insinuat... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
I didn't insinuate that, dipshit, Lorie did

Do me a favor then, please post the exact portion of her post where you interpreted it.

Thanks in advance, Ass.

You see the text in italics... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You see the text in italics? That's me quoting someone. I quoted her in my first post, and quoted it again for you since you were too dense to notice the first time. I'm not doing it a third.

This might comple... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
This might completely blow your mind, but there are also times that it is necessary we demonstrate that we are not too soft and spoiled to accept military casualties

So this means we just go to war to strut and nothing else? I understood it to mean that once we commit we don't run immediately after the first casualties happen.

And once the enemy knows that we will run, then it was pointless to ever use the military ever in all circumstances. That means too a Democrat President will never justify military force ever again.

You were intentionally trying to read way too deep into it just so you could be an ass. I'm on to you. Reiteration: ASS!

LorieYou, like Kim... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Lorie

You, like Kim, are constant Demophobe slime muckrakers, following like little toadies, their Tony Snow blogosphere maneuver.

And the Wizchoir is like a class of puppies, yelping to the bell-ringing & salivating like mindless trained dogs. (Apologies to dogs, who really are smarter than the posters here)

If scandal is to your taste, have the courage to do a piece on the legislation before the Iraqi Parliament that would grant special oil resource pricing to Exxon, Chevron, BP and Royal Dutch Shell for 20 years and look into what nation under whose regime is having a hand at ramming this through the Iraqi parliament.

Sniff, sniff...could it be "Blood for Oil?" at the expense of 3000+ lives and more...with the Condi's "Augmnetation."

Take a look at your Bush regime and ask the question, "Just what was discussed in those Cheney-energy company Executive-Privilege 2001 meetings and just why are the records not released?" for public review under the subterfuge of the Executive Privilege claim.

Then take your feigned Boxer outrage and shove it up your Republican whatever hole. I'm sure its ready to digest anything you shove.

The fact is that after ... (Below threshold)
marc:

The fact is that after the 1991 war, Iraq never had the ability to wage offensive war on anybody. Blackcat 77

Just what was Saddam going to do with those missles that far exceeded range restrictions mandated by the UN?

Were they to be used for some innocuous birthday celebration as if they were oversized bottle rockets?

So this means we just go... (Below threshold)
mantis:

So this means we just go to war to strut and nothing else?

That's not what I said.

You were intentionally trying to read way too deep into it

Lorie was responding directly to Brian's contention, based on a poll, that the majority of Americans think that the war in Iraq was not worth the lives lost. Thus she was explaining the reasons why the war was worth it. She stated:

I am asking because you seem to think that a life lost in an unpopular war (that is the "argument" you made) is not of value or purpose.

and then gave her list of reasons why it would be worth it. Such a war would have benefits such as: a) the military learns lessons from wars, won or lost, and b) we show that "we are not too soft and spoiled to accept military casualties," adding that Osama taunted us so we have to respond (as if we didn't show that we were willing to risk casualties in Afghanistan).

I agreed with the first point and found the second point to be nothing more than childish playground bullshit.

Anyway, arguing with you is pointless as you can't be bothered to read what you're responding to. I'm done with you.

And can you cite a situ... (Below threshold)
marc:

And can you cite a situation where any dictator has cooperated with terrorists? The two are oil and water. Blackcat77

You don't have to look to far astray, Saddam himself by paying for and spiritually supporting Palestinian terrorists.

Then take your fe... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Then take your feigned Boxer outrage and shove it up your Republican whatever hole

Wow Puke, you have it all figured out and you presented your case in such a convincible way.

Seriously, what is the point of your incessant blather? I would assume some lefties would want to convert us with their superior intellect but I'm sure since your arrival here many fence-sitters were swayed opposite of your point simply by your presentation.

Seriously, if you really, really think you are smart, leave, change your handle and try making a coherent point.

Responding to you is way too redundant.

HUGH:I see tha... (Below threshold)
marc:

HUGH:

I see that this indignant uproaor about Ms Boxer has its origins in an editorial from The Post. Gee, I wonder how that happened. Murdoch's rag running to rescue Condie. That's original.

And this means what? That no other media outlet reported on it, that the only ones that have are Murdoch rags?

Point taken Hugh, you make zero effort to confirm anything and take the easiest path to bash any and everything on the right of the political spectrum.

JumpinjoeJust take... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Jumpinjoe

Just take a look at the Iraqi legislation and then consider whether this Bush mania is what you really are satisfied in have your loved ones involved in.

Have you checked out the oil legislation before the Iraqi Parliament, for gawd's sake?

aR:1) I detect a ... (Below threshold)
epador:

aR:

1) I detect a less than faint resemblance to a previously banned commenter's favorite meme

2) Would you prefer the Iraqi oil go to the former Soviets or the Iranians?

3) Did you take all your little pills today?

mantis:

While you're picking at Lorie's arguments: Its hardly childish playground bullshit to carry a "big stick" and do more than brandish it. It is bullshit to try to negotiate with bullies once you've started a fight with them.

Anyway, arguing w... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Anyway, arguing with you is pointless as you can't be bothered to read what you're responding to. I'm done with you

I know what you were doing so spare me your righteousness of not responding to me.

You are simply twisting words so you can be a sanctimonious ass because obviously that's how you get your kicks.

People like you and Puke just post to get ganders up, well because you can post on a reasonably conservative site and neither of you are here to make points to sway opinion.

Your claim to fight only to strut sees right through you and the simplistic manner of how you think.

Personally I can be liberal on many social issues, (not monetarily) but after reading some of the lefty screeds here, I'm feeling more comfortable in my conservative shoes.

JumpinjoeKeep in m... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Jumpinjoe

Keep in mind, that your son, as part of Condi's "augmentation" is being augmented w/ 2 or #K troops pulled from Afghanistan, where the Taliban is already anticipated to launch major post-winter onslaughts....where even that Mission is has not been Accomplished.

Marc:Editorial, ed... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Marc:

Editorial, editorial, editorial...get it?

Your other comment is wrong and silly.

Have you checked ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Have you checked out the oil legislation before the Iraqi Parliament, for gawd's sake

Blood for Oil....Check.

Were you actually trying to make a valid point without a source because you were afraid the source was really an editorial, from say a blog of the lefty persuasion.

This is what I am talking about Puke. Make a frigg'in coherent point without all the nastiness constantly.

Show me the legislation before the Iraqi government that you are talking about. See if you just do that some of us will actually read it. Don't just spew it or fling it like monkey feces.

I'm serious dude / or dudette. Whatever.......


JumpinJoe: I think to be p... (Below threshold)
epador:

JumpinJoe: I think to be politically correct they'd prefer you use the term "dud."

Keep in mind, tha... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Keep in mind, that your son, as part of Condi's "augmentation" is being augmented w/ 2 or #K troops pulled from Afghanistan

You mean the NATO operation in Afghanistan where many of our European allies refuse the role of combat operations.

Tell you what Puke, you libs demanded a change in tactics, you got it but refuse to elaborate what you would do otherwise.

I'm all ears pal.

Go......

JumpinJoe: "Thunk"<p... (Below threshold)
epador:

JumpinJoe: "Thunk"


I think your hammer just came down on a firing pin without primer known as a dud.

Joe Jumped on Mantis:... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Joe Jumped on Mantis:

"I know what you were doing so spare me your righteousness of not responding to me."

"You are simply twisting words so you can be a sanctimonious ass because obviously that's how you get your kicks."

and also said:

"Personally I can be liberal on many social issues, (not monetarily) but after reading some of the lefty screeds here, I'm feeling more comfortable in my conservative shoes."

The shoes go perfectly with the red nose and clown car, Joe.

Seriously, Mantis is one of the brightest folks around here, and is often praised by conservative commenters for his balance, logical approach to a question, and thoroughness.

Personally, I just admire his ability to make a guy like you admit he's a clown, but that's beside the point....

You've gone over the top, JJ - back up and take a deep breath. Mantis is right.

"Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, wh... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

"Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job."

Who said this about Condi back in December in People Magizine?

A. Ted Kennedy
B. Bill Clinton
C. Jimmy Carter
D. Laura Bush

...ah of course D. ...Why would Laura Bush hint that Condi's sexual orientation would be a problem if she ran for President?


A low blow? ...I report..you decide..

He said the Americ... (Below threshold)
Larkin:
He said the Americans were too soft to fight back and risk their lives and those of their loved ones.

That's right. And we invaded Afghanistan and put Osama on the run. The American people still support the War in Afghanistan. Personally, I think we should triple our force there and stop letting the Canadians take the tough duty down in Kandahar. WE should be in Kandahar kicking Al Qaeda and Taliban ass.

But Iraq never did have anything to do with Osama and the War on Terror. There were no Iraqis on board the planes on 9/11. There were no Iraqis in the leadership ranks of Al Qaeda and very few in the ranks. Al Qaeda has its roots in the Wahabbi sect of Islam that is prominent in Saudi Arabia. Pakistan, Egypt, and the UAE are the three other countries where the most Al Qaeda sympathizers can be found. Iraq's Sunnis have always been fairly secular and Iraq's Shiites hate Osama since he considers them to be apostates.

So let's stop confusing the war against Al Qaeda with what's happening in Iraq. You supposed "hawks" want to divert more resources to this endless nationbuilding fiasco in Iraq while neglecting the real war on Al Qaeda that's being fought on the ground in Afghanistan. That doesn't make you guys "tougher" than those of us who want to get out of Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan. It just makes you foolish.

"Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, wh... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

"Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job."

Who said this about Condi back in December in People Magizine?

A. Ted Kennedy
B. Bill Clinton
C. Jimmy Carter
D. Laura Bush

...ah of course D. ...Why would Laura Bush hint that Condi's sexual orientation would be a problem if she ran for President?


A low blow? ...I report..you decide..

ThunkThunkThu... (Below threshold)
epador:

Thunk
Thunk
Thunk.

Nope, nothing but duds.

Boingggg! [a hollow ring t... (Below threshold)
epador:

Boingggg! [a hollow ring to it]

That's a totally empty shell, nogo.

You've gone over ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
You've gone over the top, JJ - back up and take a deep breath. Mantis is right

I said:

To insinuate that a fighting war is an opportunity to strut

Mantis said:

I didn't insinuate that, dipshit, Lorie did

Fine Lee, you and Mantis figured it out and agree Lorie meant we should flex American muscle for bravado purposes only.

From this point forward Lorie can elaborate her intent on those words. If she believes that we should flex our muscle without a national security threat just to flex, then I would like her to respond back to Mantis.

Fair enough?

It's Friday and I plan on living like a king and partying like a rock star tonight. I have about an hour tops otherwise see ya all later.......


Why would Laura ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Why would Laura Bush hint that Condi's sexual orientation would be a problem if she ran for President

Huh?????

What part of that insinuated homosexuality?

Sheesh, what a hoot you libs are tonight.

So can anyone tell me wheth... (Below threshold)
epador:

So can anyone tell me whether it was Daffy, Bugs or Porky who was testing artillery shells in that old WWII cartoon - by hitting them on the top with a hammer and labeling them "dud" when they didn't go off?

No offense meant to JJ, that's just the picture that came into my twisted head. Nice heavy hammer, clean downward stroke and... it just hits a dud. A fortunate "wasted" effort. Now others know they don't have to bother testing the shells to see if they are live.

Party like a Rock Star JJ, you deserve it.

Party like a Roc... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Party like a Rock Star JJ, you deserve it

Thanks, I'm having an "Oatmeal Porter" from a microbrewery in Asheville, NC as a warmer upper as we type.

For some odd reason the more I drink, the better looking I get. I can't explain it. It's some weird phenomenon with me.

Party on epador......

"Dr. (Condolee... (Below threshold)
Jlawson:
"Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job."
Frankly, I question the sanity of anyone who goes into the political meat grinder with the intention of trying to become President. It's a killer of a job, the other political party will hate you (or if not, sure emulate it with great accuracy) and no matter what you do - even if it's nothing - it'll be the wrong thing.

You either have to have a great desire for service, to the point where it doesn't matter what happens to you personally, or you've got to have such a lust for power that you'd put up with your entire life being examined with a microscope and hope you didn't do anything stupid 30-40 years back that people will remember.

That said, I second Jumpinjoe - where in that statement is anything implied about her preferences? That's she's single? Oh, wait! Her parents aren't living! No... that's silly. It must be... she's an only child!

Damn, nogo - that's really, really, um... homophobic of you to read something like that into that statement...

Larkin,So... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Larkin,

So let's stop confusing the war against Al Qaeda with what's happening in Iraq. You supposed "hawks" want to divert more resources to this endless nationbuilding fiasco in Iraq while neglecting the real war on Al Qaeda that's being fought on the ground in Afghanistan. That doesn't make you guys "tougher" than those of us who want to get out of Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan. It just makes you foolish.

But we are nation building in Afghanistan as well. Anytime the U.S. invades a country and overthrow it's leadership we have to follow up with nation building if there's to be a long lasting result in our favor. If the U.S. folds up in Iraq, then I expect many of the foreign insurgents there would go to Afghanistan and take up where they left off. This is one battle we can't run away from. We can fight the Islamic extremists in Iraq or we can fight them in Afghanistan or we can fight them on U.S. soil. I know many liberals don't believe that, and that's why they think we can just withdraw from Iraq and not pay a higher price than if we stay. When did fortress America become a liberal position?

45,000,000 aborted lives do... (Below threshold)
Ziggy in JC:

45,000,000 aborted lives does not equal 3,000 volunteer lives

I find it ironic that Sen. ... (Below threshold)

I find it ironic that Sen. Boxer (who, in my opinion, would lose in an IQ contest with a potted plant) chastised Sec. Rice for not having any children, when so many of her constituents cast derision on those who have children for being "breeders."

I'm a proud "breeder," with family in the service.

I'm too polite to say what the lefties would say to those who disagree with them, and against whom they have no logical argument, but y'all can guess what that is.

What I'd really like to know is, is there anything that Boxer, Biden, Durbin, et al. believe is worth fighting for? If so, I'd sure like to hear them specify what that is.

People Magazine: Nancy Pelo... (Below threshold)
pk:

People Magazine: Nancy Pelosi shattered Congress's glass ceiling by becoming the first female Speaker of the House. Do you think there's anything a woman would do differently with the Presidency?

Mrs. Bush: I agree. But it isn't easy to live here. Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job.

Where is the attack on Laura Bush??

45,000,000 ≠ 3,000.... (Below threshold)
Math Patrol:

45,000,000 ≠ 3,000.

pk really don't understand ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

pk really don't understand the difference what Mrs. Bush meant and what Bush meant? Liberals really have the galls to call Bush "stupid". I am amazed at the intellectual understanding of these folks. They either really don't know what they are talking about or very dense not to understand or simply don't care much about decency. The left is truly an intellectual swamp!

Geez, I try to take the fam... (Below threshold)
Lorie:

Geez, I try to take the family out for dinner and a really lame animated movie and come back to find a ton of misinterpretations of my words. I typed that comment in a hurry and then had a lot of real life/family obligation stuff to attend to so it is probably my fault for not elaborating more fully, but I think some of you really worked hard to read something into my words that was certainly not intended.

I was not saying that we should go blow up a bunch of people to show Osama that we were willing to do it. Those who have read me for the past three years certainly know that. Heck, anyone with a lick of sense knows that.

I was trying to convince those who came out and said they believed the deaths in Iraq were pointless and without value and that those in the military should be pitied were dead wrong. My point was that even if they believe the mission was completely bogus and an Oliver Stone style conspiracy for oil or because Bush is Hitler reincarnated or whatever DU theory is popular now, there is still more "point" to those deaths than your average death by motor vehicle or cancer or suicide.

Let me make it clear enough for even all my detractors to understand (hopefully) -- even for those who believe Iraq is a big phony baloney war. More value be found in the death of a fallen soldier than in the average death. I was talking about what value can be found as a result of those deaths, after the fact. Not that we should go throw a bunch of soldiers out to die so that we could prove that we were as vicious as our enemies.

One example I gave was what can be learned to help soldiers in future conflicts. Another had to do with what the American reaction to the deaths could show our enemies. For a time it appeared bin Laden was being proven wrong because Americans seemed to grasp the concept that casualties would be expected in the GWOT. Now I am not so sure. Anyway, to mischaracterize my statement to say that the soldiers were killed or allowed to be killed just to prove a point is absolutely ridiculous. I should have made my point more clearly, but sometimes real life (as opposed to virtual life) interferes and I write in a hurry.

By the looks of it, I am not the only one.

pk, Is that real? (Say it's... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

pk, Is that real? (Say it's not real!) It is?? Then the first lady's in mortal danger!!! I know: We'll commit her to Betty Ford's! Plea "morning beer buzz".

Lorie, please don't blame y... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Lorie, please don't blame your family in public (even if it was their fault).

Lorie, We understan... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Lorie,
We understand the sacrifice of the American soldiers in liberating, protecting the Iraquis from the brutal terrorists and their Baathist allies (who hope to oppress the majority of the Iraqui people again, and rebuilding Iraq. As an immigrant from a communist country, I can say from personal experience how much good America has done for the world, especially in containing and finally defeating the communist evil empire. These liberals either don't know what they are talking about or simply try to hide the moral bankruptcy. They knew that the left stood on the wrong side of history: the left has sided with the dictators of the world and now with the terrorists of the world against America.

Brian- who the F are you... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Brian- who the F are you to tell any soldier's mother anyhting about the value of her son's service?

Umm, so I can't criticize a war because it's being fought by people with mothers? You people are too worried about showing your "patratizm" and throwing around words like "bravery" and "service" to pay attention to the people actually dying!

Stupid idiotic chickenshit bastard.

So much for raising the level of discourse on Wizbang.

Do you have any understa... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Do you have any understanding of the military? I am asking because you seem to think that a life lost in an unpopular war (that is the "argument" you made) is not of value or purpose.
...
Unfortunately, those deaths, as the ones in Iraq, serve a valuable purpose. Even those who do not die fighting in combat contribute value because there are things learned through those deaths that translate to other conflicts in the future.

OK, so your argument is that it's necessary for our soldiers to die because it will remind us to not kill more of them needlessly in the future.

Those of us who already understand that lesson object to those of you who need more soliders to die before you get it.

Boxer embarrasses herself a... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Boxer embarrasses herself and the democrat party, the Duke case is going down the tubes, along with all the reputations of all the liberals/democrats who are involved with it, Pelosi is caught in an ethics scam, and this month has just started, and I think I'm even forgetting a few.

The dems are already going down the tubes. LOVE IT!!!

"What I'd really like to kn... (Below threshold)
Knightbrigade:

"What I'd really like to know is, is there anything that Boxer, Biden, Durbin, et al. believe is worth fighting for? If so, I'd sure like to hear them specify what that is."

The answer: Nothing! liberals think they can negotiate everything. I think if America gets attacked by radical muslims, conservatives need to sit the fight out until the liberals are massacred, then step over their bodies to fight the enemy without the whiny baggage liberals bring.

What stinks is, that in reality liberals will bring US/conservatives down with them.

JJ:Unfortunately m... (Below threshold)
epador:

JJ:

Unfortunately my inner ear suffers from noise and decompression injuries that occasionally render me as if I had consumed 36 ounces of Old Crustacean (look that one up on your microbrew database) without the fun or the diuresis. Thus I find myself staggering around the house, nauseated (reading some of these comments doesn't help) and barely able to see straight. Without the Beer Goggles. Gawd I'm ugly!

And are there some clusless duds trying to dis Lorie in this thread or what?

Well, clusless or clueless,... (Below threshold)
epador:

Well, clusless or clueless, they also don't know if it was Daffy, Bugs or Porky either.

Bravo! to Lorie at Janua... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Bravo! to Lorie at January 12, 2007 03:01 PM,

As to your follow ups - well done. There are a helluva lot more important things in life.

mantis, your opposing viewpoints are always well mounted, but I thought you were slightly better at picking your counterpoints than your interpretation of part of Lorie's comment this time.

So when are you going to pen a "Wizbang Blue" article anyway?

Brian- who the F are you... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

Brian- who the F are you to tell any soldier's mother anyhting about the value of her son's service?

Umm, so I can't criticize a war because it's being fought by people with mothers?

Well that is the theory behind Boxer's comments to Rice and - well - everything having to do with Cindy Sheehan.

No one is supposed to be able to criticize Sheehan because you can't tell a mother about the value of her son's service even when she thinks there was absolutely no value to it.

Boxer thinks that you cannot fight a war unless you do so yourself or draft your own children into it. According to Boxer, you cannot understand unless you have children. She, however, does think she understands what it is like to *not* have children despite the fact she has children and goes further to lecture Rice - who has no children - on how she should feel about being childless.

Brian, it's to your credit that you reject both Boxer and Sheehan and their public statements.

My apologies ...I ... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

My apologies ...

I missed highlighting a section of the comment that I quoted in my previous post:

Brian said:

Umm, so I can't criticize a war because it's being fought by people with mothers?


- not I, as it appears in my previous post.

Does Obama or Hillary have ... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Does Obama or Hillary have military service? Do they have children in the military in Iraq?

Seems like the Democrats are raising the bar in the next Presidential Election above their own candidates.

Anyway, to mischaracteri... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Anyway, to mischaracterize my statement to say that the soldiers were killed or allowed to be killed just to prove a point is absolutely ridiculous. I should have made my point more clearly, but sometimes real life (as opposed to virtual life) interferes and I write in a hurry.

In that case I apologize for misinterpreting your meaning.

Joe, I stand corrected, but I wasn't being an ass just for the sake of it. Gotta go.

JPM100 -In my obse... (Below threshold)
Jlawson:

JPM100 -

In my observation of the political spectrum of the last 20+ years, Vietnam's gone from being a fatal liability to damn near a necessity on the resume. (Anyone else remember the claims during the Clinton campaigns that military service wasn't necessary in a Commander-in-Chief? Then look at the 2000 election, where you not only had to be a veteran, if you weren't a Viet Nam vet you weren't qualified to command.)

It's not about getting the pest people for the job - it's about identifying and defending against potential weaknesses as early as possible in the campaign season.

No one is supposed to be... (Below threshold)
Brian:

No one is supposed to be able to criticize Sheehan because you can't tell a mother about the value of her son's service

That is a position perpetrated more by the right than the left. You like to pretend that's true, so you can attack her and add hypocrisy to the agenda.

even when she thinks there was absolutely no value to it.

Now it is you devaluing her son. It's perfectly reasonable for a mother to evaluate why her son was killed, and decide that his life was worth more than his "service". You must admit that there's a difference between dying by throwing yourself on a hand grenade to protect others, and dying by walking down the street in the middle of another country's civil war.

Brian, it's to your credit that you reject both Boxer and Sheehan and their public statements.

I reject many of my party's public statements. (Though Cindy Sheehan is not representative of "my party".) I just reject more of those by Republicans.

You sound like a total reje... (Below threshold)
epador:

You sound like a total reject to me.

Ah, I see that you are back... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

Ah, I see that you are back "pretending" to know what I really think, B/B, rather than reading what I actually wrote.

Since you are wrong - again - I won't bother with your post further.

Anyone who thinks only the mothers who agree with his POV have a right to decide about their son's service is, at best, a hypocrite.

All politicians make stupid... (Below threshold)
Allen:

All politicians make stupid comments, and 99.9% are full of BS. But if B43 didn't invade Iraq, and had all those troops in Afghanistan, taking the toll of our GI's, there would still be people crying about the cost of soldiers lifes.

There is much not to like B43 for, but at least he has the balls to take the fight over there. We are in a real dirty war, and least people forget, B43 said at the beginning, it will last a long time, and will require sacrifice from Americans.

Where would we be if, after the invasion of Europe in WW2, losing a huge amount of soldiers, we pulled back? Nobody wants our soldiers to die, least of all the military leaders. The average congress critters talk a good story, but very few of their kids are in uniform.

Boxer made a very good point, the military families are the ones who suffer,not the Admin or Congress critters do. So quit getting your panties in a wad. What is it going to take to make the average American citizen realize we are in a war.

I suppose the sailors on the USS Cole who died, the marines in Beirut who died, and many others in different terror attacks who died; start including them in the numbers, and then maybe, just maybe, you will realize we are at war.

I'm also a conservative, an... (Below threshold)
Debby Young:

I'm also a conservative, and I was not upset about the conversation between Rice and Boxer. Young men are dying and being mutilated. Ms. Rice seems to be a nice woman, but the fact is that these precious young men are dying needlessly. That's what matters now. We need to get them out of there. Doesn't the President know what he's doing? I don't think he could understand unless one of his daughters would have to go. Of course, that would never happen. I don't want anyone's child to go. The people in Iraq are not ready for democracy. I believe in helping people but they have to want what you're fighting for. I voted for Bush, but I don't know why anymore. I have 3 sons, and the idea of them sacrificing their lives for this is beyond belief. To think that they would go over there and be blown up by some lunatic makes me physically ill. We need to circle the wagons and take care of our own. I live everyday, now, in disbelief. Where is the Bush I voted for, or did he even exist? I know it sounds naive, but I thought he was an honorable man. I thought he cared.

Anyone who thinks only t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Anyone who thinks only the mothers who agree with his POV have a right to decide about their son's service is, at best, a hypocrite.

I agree. If I had said otherwise, your comment might make sense.

To a mother who disagrees w... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

To a mother who disagrees with your POV, you said:

Umm, so I can't criticize a war because it's being fought by people with mothers? You people are too worried about showing your "patratizm" and throwing around words like "bravery" and "service" to pay attention to the people actually dying!

About a mother who agrees with your POV, you said:

It's perfectly reasonable for a mother to evaluate why her son was killed, and decide that his life was worth more than his "service".

Not that we have established your hyposcrisy, we can take your position for what it is - partisian rhetoric.

In general ...

Boxer could have chosen to discuss issues that she had with the war. She's a Senator, for Pete's sake, not a therapist. She had a rare opportunity - one that the rest of us virtually never get - to ask hard questions of public officials in a situation where they should be made to answer.

Her response? She behaved like the worst stereotype of a gossipy woman in a beauty shop and didn't ask policy questions.

She lectured Rice on *not* understanding who a mother who loses a son feels despite the fact HER point was that neither she or Rice could possible know. She then lectured Rice on how Rice should feel since she has no children - despite the fact Boxer has children and couldn't possibly know how Rice feels on the topic.

Those who say the *real* point of this is the war are absolutly correct. However, Boxer would then have to be at fault for her comments because she - not Rice - was the one off topic.

I agree Rice should be held accountable. I have no doubt that Rice *expects* to be held accountable. You don't ge the resume that she has without understanding that point.

The surprise is that a sitting US Senator chose to behave like a *Despterate Housewife* rather than a grown-up adult senator.

Boxer's POV that you have to have a child to defend this country leads to the idea that you have to have children to discuss childcare, have children to discuss education, etc. That's, at best an extreme and discriminatory idea. However, if she really believes it to be true, then she should have the guts to be consistent.

For example, if you should be prohibited from having a say any issue involving children because you don't have children - as she is attempting to say - why should you have to pay taxes for any service involving children? It is not my viewpoint, but it is the logical extension of her line of reasoning on this issue.

"I know it sounds naive"</... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"I know it sounds naive"

No, it's sounds of frauds especially with these comments

"but the fact is that these precious young men are dying needlessly."

"I don't want anyone's child to go."

"Doesn't the President know what he's doing? I don't think he could understand unless one of his daughters would have to go"


IT NEVER OCCURS TO TRAITOROUS , STUPID AND POWER FIENDING COMMYCRATS THAT ALL OUR ENEMIES ARE WATCHING ALL THESE DEMOCRAT TELEVISED CIRCUS EVENTS EXPOSING AND INFORMING THEM OF WHAT TO EXPECT AND WHEN TO EXPECT IT. I CORRECT MYSELF , DEMOCRATS ARE COMPLETELY 100% POSITIVELY AWARE OF IT! MALICIOUS TRAITORS!

Hey Rob. Stop wetting your ... (Below threshold)
Fordrill:

Hey Rob. Stop wetting your pants, you pantywaist.

You're such a scared little turd. Look at how you rant. What embolden's our enemies more is how little wussies like you go into a anxious lather at the thought of the "terrorists" reading criticism.

If freedom of speech is too dangerous for you to defend, go live in North Korea.

Let me see if I got this ri... (Below threshold)
Chris:

Let me see if I got this right; Condi has no kids and gets crucified by a Dem. Sarah has five kids; with one paying the price, and see gets crucified by all the Dems. I am not sure I understand the Democraptic position on feminism. Then again I am in the Army.




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