« Libby Trial - Ari Fleischer Testimony | Main | DOA »

"They're awful -- just take my word for it!"

Over the weekend, a diarist over at Kos reported back on his six-month study of right-wing blogs (RWBs). He looked at 10 blogs, and we were fortunate enough to make the list. And his conclusions... wow.

I barely recognized ourselves.

The list of allegations and incidents is disturbing, to say the least -- and at the worst, downright frightening.

But I noticed something odd.

For all the charges and incidents and widespread abuses, the author didn't offer the slightest shred of evidence.

No links, no quotes, not even any before-and-after screenshots showing the massive deletions and bannings he talked about.

I challenged the author -- repeatedly -- to give some proof, but he never bothered.

I'm not saying that what he says doesn't happen. I've seen it -- far more on the left than on any of the right sites that I read, but it does happen on both.

"Maccabee" was gracious in thanking me for my comments, but didn't answer with evidence -- or even explain why he didn't offer any. He just expected his word to be accepted as gospel by the Faithful over there -- and, judging by the overwhelming response, he was well justified in that expectation.

I was also surprised to be received mostly civilly over there. Quite frankly, it took a bit longer for the typical venom to emerge than I expected.

I don't think I'll participate on a regular basis (or even an irregular basis) over there, but I was surprised I haven't been banned yet.

My only regret is that I spent so much time over there, instead of working on any pieces here.


Comments (47)

Sounds like they found what... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Sounds like they found what they wanted to sate them. So additional blood was unnecessary.

Basically its not hard to be a gracious winner. (yes only in their own minds, but winners none the less)

Why would anyone with a fun... (Below threshold)
cubanbob:

Why would anyone with a functioning brain give a shit about what communist moonbats think? The old adage was never more true "the only good only good leftist,progressive,socialist,marxist, communist is a dead one".

Heh, not exactly a scientif... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Heh, not exactly a scientific study, and no evidence presented even if it was. He does point out some recurring themes on blogs, but they tend to be true for both sides.

In any case if the comments above are anything to go by, this will be an amusing thread.

One of my faves...... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

One of my faves...

Guilt by association

Yes, the infamous photo of private-citizen Donald Rumsfeld with Saddam Hussein, or the President shaking hands with some member of the Saad family and the whole "guilt by association" is never an aspect exploited by LWB or LW bloggers. Never happens. Ever.

/laughable irony tag off


LOL

Mantis, I agree. I can bar... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Mantis, I agree. I can barely wait for the usual suspects to chime in.

JayMaccabee may ha... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Jay

Maccabee may have provided no links, but a lot of what he referenced is seen here, particularly by some commenters.

Just above, from cubanbob, "Why would anyone with a functioning brain give a shit about what communist moonbats think?"

If you ignore the overwhelm... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

If you ignore the overwhelming hypocracy of that post (I mean the main dailykos post that was linked to above), it was actually just a small example of what most Americans get everyday from the "MSM".

The author is commenting on about 1-5% of the whole story about right wing blogs as 95-99% of the whole truth does not fit the neo-com worldview. Just like the MSM which focuses entirely on 1-5% of each story and ignore 95-99% of the whole truth.

It was pretty funny in way, but also sad and sickening as is most of what is posted on that site.

Peter F"Yes, th... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Peter F

"Yes, the infamous photo of private-citizen Donald Rumsfeld with Saddam Hussein, "

Actually, Rumsfeld was a special envoy to Iraq on behalf of President Reagan.

I'm confused now. Was the ... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I'm confused now. Was the article mainly about Right Wing Blogger or Right Wing Blog Commenters?

The scariest trend is still... (Below threshold)
jp2:

The scariest trend is still heavily present at Wizbang:

"No amount of debunking or facts will changes[sic] their minds"

The fact that the site actively suggests that WMDs were found in Iraq is a textbook example. It's a dangerous attitude.

But this site is pretty good at handling banning. I assume that trolls do make the owner more money, but I think the site is nice because honest discussion does occasionally occur. I am thankful for that 10%.

Why anyone would frequent a... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Why anyone would frequent a comments blog they agree with? Thinking blogs or humourously snarky blogs (isteve, 2blowhards ,udolpho, Walcott) are different. But wallowing in the comfort zone re-assuring each other is sad! But funny to me. And cubanbob's use of "moonbat"... that seems to have generated from Michele Malkin. Now, have you ever SEEN Michele Malkin? If I were going to cast "Queen Moonbat on Mars", she could play it w/o make-up.

ePuke:1.) You miss... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

ePuke:

1.) You missed the point entirely.
2.) He was a private citizen at the time ("and at this time headed the multinational pharmaceutical company G.D. Searle & Co....") and not an official public servant.

Yes, don't waste time there... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Yes, don't waste time there, the vast, empty frozen tundra of thought.

Can I quote his diety?... (Below threshold)

Can I quote his diety?

"Screw 'Em"

Peter F"Rumsfeld, ... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Peter F

"Rumsfeld, then President Ronald Reagan's special Middle East envoy"

I like this claim:... (Below threshold)
Mark:

I like this claim:

Few of them know the difference between the Sunnis and Shias.

Maybe we should ask the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee to explain the differences to us. Oh, wait...

Peter F"<a href="h... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Peter F

"Rumsfeld, then President Ronald Reagan's special Middle East envoy"

As a "special envoy" he was not there as a private citixen...rather he was there to explain, among other things, that State Department harangues about the use of CW aka chemical weapons was not directed at Saddam.

I guess Maccabbee couldn't ... (Below threshold)
John F Not Kerry:

I guess Maccabbee couldn't have been Muirgeo, since he was gracious.

Jay..Kos is like the athlet... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

Jay..Kos is like the athlete kid who just a signed a big contract..."hey I'm somebody and F you"...
It does not mean he did not deserve it...it is just KOS is not as important as he may think..
Your place is less hostile to my viewpoint than that place is to yours....I embrace Irony...
I quit posting there when it became a "club" where you had to be member before posting..


Of course I should add that... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

Of course I should add that it was a poster and not Kos who did this...I'm sure someone could take posts from here and say they represent you...

...by the way...how long do you think that the facts will reveal that our great military victory in killing all those "insurgents" is a bit wrong...
Remember..you can't have insurgents...with the surge

I was wrong...you can have ... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

I was wrong...you can have the word "insurgents" with the "surge"...it just looks funny "inents"

"The Pentagon said over 250 inents where killed in fierce fighting." ...doesn't have the same resonance .

ePuke:An "envoy" i... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

ePuke:

An "envoy" is a person, almost always a current private citizen who has prior government experience, delegated to represent a government in its dealings with another; they do NOT, however, hold official government titles, i.e., ambassador, minister, etc. No matter how one looks at it, he was still a private citizen. (If you ask me, "contractor" would be a better albeit less dignified sounding but more apropos title than "envoy".)

delegated to represent a... (Below threshold)
Brian:

delegated to represent a government

That's good enough. He didn't need to hold a title. He was sent at the behest of the US government, and therefore officially represented the US government.

I was also surpris... (Below threshold)
Publicus:
I was also surprised to be received mostly civilly over there. Quite frankly, it took a bit longer for the typical venom to emerge than I expected.

May I suggest something? Just as there is venom on both sides, there is civility, too! Of course, we are discussing emotional issues...so even many of us who are USUALLY civil sometimes slip...

And I'd like to thank you for (mostly) treating me civilly here!

... whatever. When people ... (Below threshold)
yo:

... whatever. When people give credence to 911 Truthers, ... does it matter how they feel about blogs on the other side?

Additionally, I find that in the LWB, the word "c*nt" is thrown about rather haphazardly when a disagreement comes up (check nearly any HuffPo piece during the '04 election run-up).

I have yet to see that particular word on this, or several of the RWB, used to attack someone, personally (there's a dif. between attacking a group of folks, ala "communist moonbats" and going after someone, in particular).

Nor, does the general level of hostility and vitriol, and catter-walling on the right come anywhere that on the left.

Nor, do I see nearly the amount of censorship on the right as is done, regularly, on the left.

And, if you're banned from a RWB, you have to go WAY out of your way to do so.

The dude at Kos can say what he wants, but quite frankly, he's 75% full of crap, but his shouts into the Kos echo chamber will be heralded as something profound since few of the folks over there bother to do more than regurgitate something they heard someone else say.

At least in the RWB, accountability for your sources is actually respected and discussed.

Waste of my time to even check the link and I feel sick having added to their traffic.

Brian, ePuke was q... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Brian,

ePuke was quibbling with whether or not Rummy was a private citizen; clearly, as ePuke's link points out, Rummy was a private citizen at the time of his acting as an envoy. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it; Rummy was a private citizen.

For clarification, envoys are asked to be envoys; they are not there at the "behest" (as defined by Merriam Webster: commanded, ordered) of their government. They can refuse to act as an envoy--most don't, however, out of a sense of service, duty to country or whatever. It would also be a conflict of interest and against US law for a person to hold both a private position and an official government position simultaneously--"envoy" helps get around that sticky legal wicket, albeit only temporarily so. I'm not quibbling that he didn't act on behalf of the government, not at all; he did. But he did so as a private citizen. Therefore, my original compound adjective "private-citizen" is irrefutably correct.

Whatever the minutiae over "envoy" and "private citizen" it ultimately has squat to do with and misses my original comment in regards to "guilt by association" that LWbloggers use almost ad nauseum to prove some point about nefarious dealings, etc. blah blah, blah...

I think the liberals are us... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

I think the liberals are using projection. They are intolerant, so they think the other side must be doing the same thing that they are doing.

I kept seeing the moral equivalency arg over and over again. There are good people and bad people on both sides etc.... The same response: the US is not perfect and North Korea is not perfect, so the US is the same as North Korea. If we are using the same standard, the right is nor perfect by any means. However, the liberal left is truly in an intellectual and moral sewage.

The fact that the ... (Below threshold)
The fact that the site actively suggests that WMDs were found in Iraq is a textbook example. It's a dangerous attitude.

Do you mean at all? Because scattered, individual weapons and small groups have been found. One sarin shell was even used in an IED, but the bombers probably were unaware it wasn't a standard shell.

But no stockpiles, nor has Wizbang (to my knowledge) claimed that such stockpiles were found. But then again, your ilk is strangely incurious about all those hundreds of trucks that crossed the border with Syria in the weeks leading up to the war. Were they empty? Carrying vegetables? Probably some had money, since we captured at least one truck in Iraq with millions in cash. But what else was there?

However, the liberal le... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

However, the liberal left is truly in an intellectual and moral sewage posted by LoveAmerica Immigrant at January 29, 2007 5:18 PM
Kos diary theme No Nuance necessary. Our enemies are all the same.

Hey I thought the Kos diary was a pretty good debunking of some of the recurring memes of Wizbang such as Love AmericaImmigrant's comment . Despite the Kos diarist disclaimer " I purposely pulled out the worse stuff and wrote about it" Jay critcizes the diarist for not giving examples...The evidence shouldn't be too far at hand to find.

Crickmore, that is the poin... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Crickmore, that is the point of the criticism. If it is that obvious, and that pervasive, why is the evidence to back it up so hard to provide?

And cubanbob's use of "... (Below threshold)
marc:

And cubanbob's use of "moonbat"... that seems to have generated from Michele Malkin. Now, have you ever SEEN Michele Malkin? If I were going to cast "Queen Moonbat on Mars", she could play it w/o make-up. Posted by: bryanD at January 29, 2007 03:06 PM

And there you go bryanD opening you mouth and inserting foot. As usual.

It wasn't even anyone from the "right wing" that coined the term Barking Moonbat.

And you can send your apologies to Malkin for the personnel attack on her looks as well. It was cheap and uncalled for.

Interestingly after trawlin... (Below threshold)
dave t:

Interestingly after trawling through the comments on Kos, the overall conclusion was the sheer hatred and rather pathetic and childish comments made by many. Such as urging macabee to take a shower, scrub clean, how brave he was, how going onto the right wing blogs could be likened to the Somme (20,000 British dead on 1st July 1916!!! How much more dangerous is a right wing blog!).

Good heavens, no wonder so many liberals are in almost permanent therapy and a state of denial about what is really going on in the world outside their little dinner parties. Time and time there was no debate just immediate and often crude personal attacks. To call someone a 'moonbat' is rather less rude than attacking their looks, race (as they do regularly with Ms Malkin) or claiming things that have been proven time and again to be untrue. Examples include the fake turkey,(they DO get excited about the little things don't they?) the various Lancet projections of Iraqi casualties, Iran not being involved in attacking the coalition (one of my regimental colleagues was killed in Basra last year thanks to Iranian munitions) and the lack of WMDs. So if they are found hidden in Syria for example what happens then?

One could argue or at least try and debate the issues with people of the opposition viewpoint but the majority of those at DailyKos seem to prefer to attack in a rabid and illthoughout fashion as a matter of automatic choice rather than as a tactic. Most sad.

Whatever the minutiae ov... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Whatever the minutiae over "envoy" and "private citizen" it ultimately has squat to do with and misses my original comment in regards to "guilt by association"

It is you who is quibbling over minutiae. Rumsfeld was asked by Reagan to visit Saddam. You dispute the "association" here apparently because a) he was "asked", not "ordered", to do so; and b) he was only a "government envoy", not a paid position. C'mon now.

But regardless, the association here is a legitimate one by which to assess the relationship. It's not like Reagan just knew Saddam from their weekly pinochle game, and had no idea what his day job was. You don't dismiss a proactive relationship as nothing more than "guilt by association".

marc; it says "popular with... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

marc; it says "popular with the Right", with no refutation of M Malkin as the source; I could be wrong, but since 90% of the part-time blogs on the net link from her breakfast nook, and since the word "moonbat" is on 99% of her pages, I stand fast. Now per her looks: it's not neccessarily, a bad thing to have a bat-like face in a vague kind of way. Some bats aren't too ugly, and big eyes are a desirable trait. Are aquiline or leonine traits an insult? The use of the adjectives have been current since Boccaccio, at least. As admiring terms. So I never meant she is ugly; that's your interpretation. ps: Maybe if I would have used " Sailor Moonbat", "Princess Moonbat", etc.

"Do you mean at all? Becaus... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"Do you mean at all? Because scattered, individual weapons and small groups have been found. One sarin shell was even used in an IED, but the bombers probably were unaware it wasn't a standard shell."

Yes I mean at all.

"Weapons of Mass Destruction." 10 year old buried shells with expired agents cannot, by definition, cause mass destruction. You state this in your second sentence above - did it cause mass destruction?

Or you could take the word of the Decider, or Tommy Franks, but as stated above - "No amount of debunking or facts will change their minds."

Brian,Read the ver... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Brian,

Read the very first sentence of my post. It says "ePuke was quibbling..."etc. (See his orginal quibbling post above.) I'm clarifying and correcting his clear mistake and quibble over my correct use of "private citizen" in reference to Rummy. ePuke picked that argument, not me, bro. He wanted to get ticky-tacky and quibble, fine, I got ticky-tacky and quibbled. He remains wrong.

I am clarifying ePuke's knowledge of what an "envoy" is, does and how they are selected/asked for the job because it obviously means something (what i don't know) to him. "Special envoys" are dime a dozen and used by nearly, if not every government across the globe. There are a multitude of political reasons for sending "special envoys", not the least of which is to "feel out" suspect characters like Saddam without officially doing so. Did we want to figure out what this guy Saddam was up to, especially in regards to the Iran-Iraq war? Heck yeah. So what do you do? Send a "special envoy". Big whoop. Even if it was a big whoop, whatever came of the relationship? Well, nothing, quite frankly. If nothing came of Rummy's visit, then what's the point in citing the photo as some kind of evidence of nefarious goings on? Heck if I know. Entertainment value for conspiracy theorists, I guess.

That's just part of the reason I do not honor the whole "guilt by association" theories in regards to the picture and Rumsfeld's visit. Far too often, LWB's do not put the picture in accurate and reasonable historical context--particularly when people forget that Iran, with its close ties to the USSR, was a sworn and bitter enemy of the US at the time. That's my real quibble.

The truth about rwb and lwb... (Below threshold)
sian:

The truth about rwb and lwb there is no since of discussion. Intellient comments facts proof to back up all the non sense.

marc; it says "popular ... (Below threshold)
marc:

marc; it says "popular with the Right", with no refutation of M Malkin as the source; I could be wrong, but since 90% of the part-time blogs on the net link from her breakfast nook, and since the word "moonbat" is on 99% of her pages, I stand fast. bryanD

I don't normally stoop this low, but yu gotta do what you gotta do.

Just how stupid are you? What is it about the very plainly displayed "coined by Perry de Havilland" in referance to the term Barking Moonbat do you not understand?

Not that it will help any, here is some help you disparately need:

coined, coin·ing, coins

1. To make (pieces of money) from metal; mint or strike: coined silver dollars.
2. To make pieces of money from (metal): coin gold.
3. To devise (a new word or phrase).

Do I really have to point to #3? Do I, or will you continue spinning like the Tasmanian Devil in a mad attempt to deny the obvious?

And while I'm pointing out the obvious I may as well note the noun form of Barking Moonbat describes you to a "T" "Someone on the extreme edge of whatever their -ism happens to be."

Your obvious form of liberalism and in the case of your childish invective directed at Malkin, (racism) fits you better than an O.J. glove.

Uhh "bryanDumbass" have you... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Uhh "bryanDumbass" have you had anymore posts deleted lately?

marc, I (again) stand by my... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

marc, I (again) stand by my assertion that Malkin is the popularizer of the term Moonbat on RWBs, circa 2007. Why? because the term has been around since Victorian times, but has come into its own via the circular linkages to one of the few un-lazy bloggers: MMalkin. (She HAS to be the most-cited blog for partisans Who else is?) And who the HELL is P. de Havilland? Did M swipe it from him? It doesn;'t matter. No one reads P dH. Like I said above: moonbats is an old term that was not in general American usage until relatively recently. And "barking moonbats"? Never heard of it. And ps: I'M the conservative in this dialog. ME! ME! ME! Bush and his clan are country club, Rockefeller, liberal Republicans. Does "compassionate conservative" ring a bell? It's baby food for naifs! As for the "racism" accusation: All races are fine, but the differences are more interesting than the similarities, in culture, appearance, and behavior. And archetypes are useful. p.s. Whatever race you are, you 're one whiney lot. Hit back:I like it: I'm Scotch- Irish, German and Cherokee.

...AND FRENCH! (There's an ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

...AND FRENCH! (There's an opening for you!)

bryanD[lusional]Wh... (Below threshold)
marc:

bryanD[lusional]

Why does it figure you're not intellectuality honest enough to even research who Perry de Havilland is.

Your good at spin, I'll admit that much. Unfortunately for you it doesn't take an intellect higher than an one cell animal to see through it.

Question: Were blogs available in the "Victorian times?"

They must have been if as you claim Barking Moonbat has been around since then.

According to an article by New York Times language maven William Safire, the term was first used by the famous science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein in 1947.

Its current use was popularized in 2002 by Perry de Havilland of libertarian weblog Samizdata.net. De Havilland denies that the term was originally a play on the last name of George Monbiot (a columnist for The Guardian), despite assertions to the contrary. De Havilland and Monbiot have appeared on the BBC together expressing politically opposed views.

Or perhaps you believe the Victorian Era occurred sometime in the late forties.

Regardless, your clueless and when offered proof positive of that cluelessness you only pile the crap deeper.

And BTW, in addition you're a liar. Malkin's blog doesn't have a reference to moonbat on "99%" of here pages.

OK, you're not a liar, let me restate that. You, once again are clueless. If you think anyone would believe you spent enough time on her blog to view each page your nuts.

Why do I say that? Because she doesn't allow comments and offer you no opportunity to spew BS like you do. No way in hell you "wasted" that much time to actually research what you claim.

marc:( Are you a/k/a/ PorkS... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

marc:( Are you a/k/a/ PorkSalad Sandwich?): I know what you're saying: you trace the "lineage" of moonbat to DeHavilland. Well, even your source traces it back to Heinlein. Were there blogs in 1947? No. Were there typewriters and printing presses in 1947? yes. Can common usage transend media? yes, again. Did MMalkin aquire the term from DeHavilland? maybe. Or did she aquire the term from Heinlein? maybe. I'd say we have a Draw! And ,yes, even RIGHT NOW there's a "moonbat" reference on Malkin's front page. (There ALWAYS is. Just scroll down enough. This one's around half-way down.) ps: And isn't Malkin one of the top, top sites in blogdom? That gives me the odds. Cuz, I'm a quick study, and if I've heard of P dH before, I've forgotten, and I don't forget much! We could talk Caesars and Augustii and I could hold my own.

BryanD, apparently you're n... (Below threshold)

BryanD, apparently you're not familiar with Little Green Footballs. It was hugely popular well before Michelle Malkin started blogging, and it was where I first stumbled across the term "barking moonbat."

The amazing thing is that it's a completely nonsensical term, yet it's considered such a nasty insult. It's not used hatefully, but in a tone of casual dismissiveness. I can't find any analogously whimsical term from the Left.

J.

I'd say we have a Draw!... (Below threshold)
marc:

I'd say we have a Draw!

So it's a draw, is that your contention BryanD?

Sorry, the game was was over and won on my side of the board the second you claimed the term originated in the Victorian Era.

Jay Tea, writing about the ... (Below threshold)
John:

Jay Tea, writing about the term Barking Moonbat, writes;

I can't find any analogously whimsical term from the Left.

I believe the term you are searching for is Flying Monkey Right.

I thought the whimiscal eq... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I thought the whimiscal equivalent of moonbats for conservatives was 'wingnuts'..Interesting discussion..I most compliment Jay for at least reading the opposition. Since he spent alot of time there, maybe he will write a similar generic critique of recurring themes, memes or tendencies on liberal blogs, which he couldn't handle or stomach.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy