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Sgt. Eddie Jeffers' Reaction to the Ignorant, Arrogant Left

There has been a lot of outrage throughout the blogosphere, including from me, in reaction to William Arkin's post from two days ago, virtually all of it negative. Arkin responded by essentially telling those who disagreed with him to pound sand. If he and others of his ilk won't listen to other bloggers, maybe he'll listen to what a soldier has to say about how the left characterizes our troops and the war - although I seriously doubt they will. They are too arrogant to listen to anyone other than those who echo their own beliefs. This piece comes to us from Sgt. Eddie Jeffers, and it is a must read. I'm excerpting quite a bit of it, but you must read all of it. And for those who are anti-war, please, for just a moment, try to put yourselves in Sgt. Jeffers' shoes:


I sweat, and I am tired. My back aches from the loads I carry. Young American boys look to me to direct them in a manner that will someday allow them to see their families again...and yet, I too, am just a boy....my age not but a few years more than that of the ones I lead. I am stressed, I am scared, and I am paranoid...because death is everywhere. It waits for me, it calls to me from around street corners and windows, and it is always there.


There are the demons that follow me, and tempt me into thoughts and actions that are not my own...but that are necessary for survival. I've made compromises with my humanity. And I am not alone in this. Miles from me are my brethren in this world, who walk in the same streets...who feel the same things, whether they admit to it or not.

And to think, I volunteered for this...

And I am ignorant to the rest of the world...or so I thought.

But even thousands of miles away, in Ramadi, Iraq, the cries and screams and complaints of the ungrateful reach me. In a year, I will be thrust back into society from a life and mentality that doesn't fit your average man. And then, I will be alone. And then, I will walk down the streets of America, and see the yellow ribbon stickers on the cars of the same people who compare our President to Hitler

I will watch the television and watch the Cindy Sheehans, and the Al Frankens, and the rest of the ignorant sheep of America spout off their mouths about a subject they know nothing about. It is their right, however, and it is a right that is defended by hundreds of thousands of boys and girls scattered across the world, far from home. I use the word boys and girls, because that's what they are. In the Army, the average age of the infantryman is nineteen years old. The average rank of soldiers killed in action is Private First Class.

People like Cindy Sheehan are ignorant. Not just to this war, but to the results of their idiotic ramblings, or at least I hope they are. They don't realize its effects on this war. In this war, there are no Geneva Conventions, no cease fires. Medics and Chaplains are not spared from the enemy's brutality because it's against the rules. I can only imagine the horrors a military Chaplain would experience at the hands of the enemy. The enemy slinks in the shadows and fights a coward's war against us. It is effective though, as many men and women have died since the start of this war. And the memory of their service to America is tainted by the inconsiderate remarks on our nation's news outlets. And every day, the enemy changes...only now, the enemy is becoming something new. The enemy is transitioning from the Muslim extremists to Americans. The enemy is becoming the very people whom we defend with our lives. And they do not realize it. But in denouncing our actions, denouncing our leaders, denouncing the war we live and fight, they are isolating the military from society...and they are becoming our enemy.

Democrats and peace activists like to toss the word "quagmire" around and compare this war to Vietnam. In a way they are right, this war is becoming like Vietnam. Not the actual war, but in the isolation of country and military. America is not a nation at war; they are a nation with its military at war. Like it or not, we are here, some of us for our second, or third times; some even for their fourth and so on. Americans are so concerned now with politics, that it is interfering with our war.

Terrorists cut the heads off of American citizens on the internet...and there is no outrage, but an American soldier kills an Iraqi in the midst of battle, and there are investigations, and sometimes soldiers are even jailed...for doing their job.

It is absolutely sickening to me to think our country has come to this. Why are we so obsessed with the bad news? Why will people stop at nothing to be against this war, no matter how much evidence of the good we've done is thrown in their face? When is the last time CNN or MSNBC or CBS reported the opening of schools and hospitals in Iraq? Or the leaders of terror cells being detained or killed? It's all happening, but people will not let up their hatred of President Bush. They will ignore the good news, because it just might show people that Bush was right.

America has lost its will to fight. It has lost its will to defend what is right and just in the world. The crazy thing of it all is that the American people have not even been asked to sacrifice a single thing. It's not like World War II, where people rationed food and turned in cars to be made into metal for tanks. The American people have not been asked to sacrifice anything. Unless you are in the military or the family member of a servicemember, its life as usual...the war doesn't affect you.

But it affects us. And when it is over and the troops come home and they try to piece together what's left of them after their service...where will the detractors be then? Where will the Cindy Sheehans be to comfort and talk to soldiers and help them sort out the last couple years of their lives, most of which have been spent dodging death and wading through the deaths of their friends? They will be where they always are, somewhere far away, where the horrors of the world can't touch them. Somewhere where they can complain about things they will never experience in their lifetime; things that the young men and women of America have willingly taken upon their shoulders.

Please read all of it.


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Comments (77)

" I seriously doubt they wi... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

" I seriously doubt they will. They are too arrogant to listen to anyone other than those who echo their own beliefs." Kim

You mean the 70% of American that believe our policy in Iraq is complete failure? Kim, why do hate America so much?

Check out his myspace page:... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:
Bravo, Sgt. Jeffers! Well s... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Bravo, Sgt. Jeffers! Well said.

That is one angry dude! esp... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

That is one angry dude! especially his web page..I wonder what he would be doing in peace time?

Whoooo hoooo!Tell ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Whoooo hoooo!

Tell it like it is man. Love it.

Awesome display of... (Below threshold)
doubled:


Awesome display of true rational nuanced thought.

Thank you for restoring a bit of faith in mankind to my cynical self.

Barneygoogle you are one po... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Barneygoogle you are one poor excuse for a human. Wee wee on you. Sheeeze

That means a lot coming fro... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

That means a lot coming from you jhow.

Two comments:
President has repeatedly said that he would give the Generals what ever they wanted, so any criticism should be directed at the Generals in charge and not activists or the media.

Yes, CBS, CNN and MSNBC rarely cover the "ground" breaking of a new school or hospital (at least not in the hot-zone which is about all of Iraq outside of Kurdistan) but what about FOX, Limbaugh and the rest of right wring media? They complain about it (lack of coverage) all the the time, but they never get around to reporting about it.

Jeffers refers to the Bush ... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Jeffers refers to the Bush haters.

Back on 9/11 the haters were as scarce as hen's teeth.

It took the subsequent years of Bush squandering the national, not to mention world, goodwill that had united people around the world.

The national mood about Bush's war of choice has virtually disappeared (30%) and Americans have a right to have had their fill.

If Jeffers is dismayed by the lack of enthusiastic support (My country, right or wrong) then he too should question his president about his horrific and catastrohic misstake.

Most Americans are reviled by the meat-grinder into which this ignorant Decider decided to cast America's finest defenders. The fool of a Decider ought better to have decided to learn more about the nature of the Mid-East and its terribly tortured history rather than stupidly initiate the neocon PNAC vision of American 21st century power.

Support of the troops should not mean throwing more into the maws of the Bush meat-grinder so he can try to save his face.

You mean the 70% of Amer... (Below threshold)
cirby:

You mean the 70% of American that believe our policy in Iraq is complete failure?

...and, once again, "disapprove of our actions in Iraq" does not equal "complete failure."

A huge proportion of that "70%" is made up of people who disapprove because we're not doing ENOUGH in Iraq. For example, most right-wingers disapprove, because we're not being hard-assed enough with some of the bad guys.

I disapprove, for example, because we're playing by the "rules of war" as mentioned above, instead of playing by the rules the bad guys use, and too much of our government is listening to people like yourself and going for the stupid "talk them to death" position.

So just remember that when you quote the "70%," you're also voting to go in and kill more bad guys.

Again, wingnuts hide behind... (Below threshold)
Reality:

Again, wingnuts hide behind the apron of a soldier. Maybe this soldier needs to concentrate on his mission (what is it again?) rather than call his fellow Americans (who pay his salary) unpatriotic.

"Americans are so concerned now with politics, that it is interfering with our war."

See, that's a big problem with him right there. It isn't THEIR war, it's America's war. We are paying for it and our relatives and friends are dying in it.

Actually, I'm glad he believes in what he is doing. I want ALL soldiers to believe in their mission (whatever it is) because if they don't they won't stay alive. But if we don't let grunts dictate US policy, at least that's what wingnuts tell us when military people oppose the war.

"A huge proportion of that "70%" is made up of people who disapprove because we're not doing ENOUGH in Iraq. "

Cite?

Just remember that the 70% ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Just remember that the 70% figure that is thrown about is from a poll from the MSM. I can poll twenty people who have read this post and the comments and get 95% that would approve of removing the heads of all dhimmi dummies on here. Just pick and choose who you poll like the media does. Even the nuts throwing aroung the 70% know it's a phony number and they're shown as phonies by using it. Guess it makes them feel good to run things down since they will never accomplish as much in their entire life as one member of the military has in a month. Which military member? Just pick one.

Like the email I got today from a Vietnam Vet organization, 'time to lock and load' (literally) right here in the U.S.
Don't let the slime and cowards of the country destroy the accomplishments of another generation as the slime like Hanoi Jane and John and they're followers did to Vietnam vets. This applies to Puke and Barney Fife.

scrap,<a href="htt... (Below threshold)
Reality:

scrap,

http://goarmy.com

Knock yourself out. Lock and load.

Chickenhawk! Chickenhawk! <... (Below threshold)
IllTemperedCur:

Chickenhawk! Chickenhawk!

BRRRRAAAAWWWKKK! BRRRRAAAAWWWKKK! BRRRRAAAAWWWKKK!

Reality, you need some new material. Chickenhawk is the liberal version of "Take my wife. Please".

And every day, the enemy... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

And every day, the enemy changes...only now, the enemy is becoming something new. The enemy is transitioning from the Muslim extremists to Americans.
'time to lock and load' (literally) right here in the U.S....

And we all thought a civil war was going on in Iraq.

Really, all you would need ... (Below threshold)
Reality:

Really, all you would need to do to defeat the wizbang crowd is cut the Cheeto supply line.

I was unaware that Cindy Sh... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

I was unaware that Cindy Sheehan and Al Franken had anything to do with the planning or execution of the invasion of Iraq. Yet their names come up all over the right blogs as if they are responsible for the failures in Iraq.

If I remember right, it was a Republican administration that birthed these plans to invade a country that posed no threat to us. Yes, chime in about how the Democrats rolled over too and went along with it, but they were the minority at the time and didn't have a seat at the table of the Great Decider.

So why is it that people like the solider who wrote this column fail to understand who is repsonsible for the current situation in Iraq?

Is it because he invested so much emotionally in what Dear Leader said he is now afraid to admit how wrong they are?

Or is it easier to blame Al Franken?

This reminds me of elementary school, where my classmate would get into trouble for doing something but would insist it was my fault from across the class because I was making faces at him.

Steve:Way to take ... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Steve:

Way to take two completely separate and unrelated comments (one from Sgt. Jeffers, the other from a poster) and try to meld them into one, incoherent and utterly pointless comment, suggesting that liberals and neocons are in or are about to be in some kind of civil war in America. What an idiotic comment to make.

What an excellent piece. Sg... (Below threshold)
Tom:

What an excellent piece. Sgt Jeffers, I'm with you. Godspeed.

O'kay Peter F. yes my comm... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

O'kay Peter F. yes my comment was hyberbole and meant to be treated that way as I presume Scrapiron's and St.Jeffers were as well, (I should hope so) but I don't find their comments unrelated or seperate...I think St. Jeffers is Scrapiron's prodigal son (metaphorically)..St. Jeffer's Iraq is Scrapiron's Vietnam..What's so depressing is that both sides (in America) the pro'war and antiwar are so hardened once again as they were almost two generations ago ( the grandfather cycle) I believe they call it.

If you ever needed evidence... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

If you ever needed evidence that scrapie is a spoof, just read his post above. Nobody could possible be that ignorant.

If you really are that ignorant, than I apologies for the spoof accusation.

"I wonder what he would do ... (Below threshold)
joeboo:

"I wonder what he would do in peace time." Crickmore.

I hope he comes looking for you, BarneyG, and Repukelican. Why don't you go back to the left/dark side. I get tired of reading your trash.

"So why is it that peopl... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"So why is it that people like the solider who wrote this column fail to understand who is repsonsible for the current situation in Iraq?"

So why is it that pretty much everyone on the left does not understand what the term "morale" means?

The actions and words of the left including the MSM, & politicians like Dick Durban, Ted Kennedy, John Murtha, and now Hillary and the rest of the leftist presidential candidates have done nothing but bolster the morale of the terrorists and give them the will to fight on.

I think that was the single biggest mistake the President made with regard to Iraq-- he failed to properly estimate and plan for the tremendous amount of moral support and encouragement the terrorists were going to get from the leftists around the world and especially in this country.

The excessive denial being expressed by the leftists in this thread is quite telling...

Back on 9/11 the haters ... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Back on 9/11 the haters were as scarce as hen's teeth.

Bullshit. Go back and look at archives of places like Fark.com, and realize that the ones making the worst comments were just the ones who came out of shock first. Almost everyone else was too busy being freaked out, but the Usual Morons were already well in stride.

"You know Bush is probably going to try and attack someone to look all righteous in the people's eyes...yuck... "

"CNN's cable channel is showing the buildings as they burn, non-stop. Bush is making an announcement. He says we're going to find the 'folks responsible.'
This just in: Terrorists now to be referred to as 'folks.'"

"Does this explain Bush's out of the ordinary LONG vacation? The pentagon may have been tipped off earlier."

"This just in: Bush declares martial law, issues mandate that requires all Islamic citizens to wear big yellow Moon & Star patch on arm. Next step: purification of America. "

The above quotes were just the most obvious from the day or two after 9/11.

As far as international support went, it wasn't that impressive,. After a few "we feel bad for you comments, the real feelings started coming out.

The actions and words of... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

The actions and words of the left including the MSM, & politicians like Dick Durban, Ted Kennedy, John Murtha, and now Hillary and the rest of the leftist presidential candidates have done nothing but bolster the morale of the terrorists and give them the will to fight on.

100% absolute bullshit. This is the most intellectually bankrupt arguement I have ever seen. It's almost laughable if you weren't so serious.

I hate to break it to you, but 140000 US troops in the heart of the Arab world is what emboldens the 'terrorists'. Abu Gharib emboldens terrorists. Bush saying "Bring em on" emboldens the terrorists.

You really think the terrorists sit around and watch C-Span waiting for Dick Durbin to speak, and then they go, now we must kill US troops, because of what a US Senator said? Are you that deluded or naive?

The terrorists don't need any encouragement. The fact that we are occupying a Muslim country is what gives them cause to hate us and want to kill us, not what some US politician said.

Again, the projection here is simply astonishing.
It's not Bush's fault, no, it's Hillary's fault because she wants the troops to come home and she is vocal about it.

I'm sorry someone tell me a... (Below threshold)
Chip:

I'm sorry someone tell me again what happens when you constantly tell a student that they can't pass, that they are a loser, that they have to cheat to get any kind of a "good" score. Yet you support them by telling them that at least they're trying? Will someone please tell me how the left is supporting our troops?

Good Job cirby, may I add:<... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Good Job cirby, may I add:

9/13/03 700 Club
JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system..

JERRY FALWELL: Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged". In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time - calling upon God. ~~~

PAT ROBERTSON: > Amen

Maybe this soldier needs... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Maybe this soldier needs to concentrate on his mission (what is it again?) rather than call his fellow Americans (who pay his salary) unpatriotic.

..followed by..

scrap,

http://goarmy.com

Knock yourself out. Lock and load.

What a dickhead.

BG2:Nobody could ... (Below threshold)
cirby:

BG2:
Nobody could possible be that ignorant.

After your ignorant "70%" post, this is well into the potkettleblack range.

Jaku:
I hate to break it to you, but 140000 US troops in the heart of the Arab world is what emboldens the 'terrorists'.

This comment flies in the face of everything that's happened in the Middle East since, well, ever.

The guys we're up against have a big belief in "riding the strong horse,' which means that they back whoever seems to be the baddest guy on the block. You might note that, whenver we increase operations (AKA "surge"), attacks drop off, and when we back off, they increase.

The fact that we are occupying a Muslim country is what gives them cause to hate us and want to kill us, not what some US politician said.

So when we weren't occupying a Muslim country, the 9/11 attacks were just imaginary. Abu Ghraib did, a bit, since they consider that sort of treatment of prisoners too kind, and think we're weak because we didn't cut off their heads with a dull knife.

The reason they hate us and want us dead isn't because of any of our actions. They want us dead because we're NOT THEM, and haven't submitted to Muslim law. The only way we have open to us are either complete submission by us or complete defeat of the bad guys.

"So when we weren't occupyi... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"So when we weren't occupying a Muslim country, the 9/11 attacks were just imaginary." by cirby

If you would bother to read OBL manifesto, one reason he attacked the US was because we had a permeant air-base in Mecca.

Keep up the good work, and don't let the facts stand in the way.

Really, all you would ne... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

Really, all you would need to do to defeat the wizbang crowd is cut the Cheeto supply line.

Actually I prefer Cool Ranch Doritos.

Barney:There's a B... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Barney:

There's a BIG friggin' difference between occupying a country and being granted an air force base by the Saudi Arabian government. And for crying out loud, the Prince Sultan Air Base is actually inside the Al Kharj, Saudi Arabiam, 80mi SW of Riyahd--and nowhere near friggin' Mecca, which is located near the Red Sea.

Yes, that's right. Don't let the facts stand in the way of your inability to Google something so simple.

"If you would bother to rea... (Below threshold)
Skul:

"If you would bother to read OBL manifesto, one reason he attacked the US was because we had a permeant air-base in Mecca."

You appear to have a very narrow view of the workings of life and politics in general. Keep the appeasement talking points coming.

Chip. Will someone pleas... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Chip. Will someone please tell me how the left is supporting our troops?

I would suggest that by wanting them to get home as safely and as soon as possible, before Bush's term is out....With Cheney at Bush's ear, they could be still be fighting an unconvential war without any clear chance of victory on their upteenth tour of hard duty, long after Bush is living his, soft retirement, writing his memoirs, in Crawford.

The Loony Left v. U.S. Mili... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

The Loony Left v. U.S. Military. Vegas odds, anyone?

ScrapcrapYour're f... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Scrapcrap

Your're felusional again. Must come from sitting so long in your overfull Depends bag.

Cirby

Your attack &/or refutation of the poll cited is just a case of "attack the messenger." Whatever you can't find sucking at the Fox News Tit you just fismiss as the MSM> You are absurd. Got another poll that you took of fascists only so you could get the results you want?

and

"The above quotes were just the most obvious from the day or two after 9/11."

Prove your horseshit quotes w/ links...and even if you have them, they would not represent the vast majority of any Americans, INCLUDING THE LEFT.

Did my pet goat get banned ... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

Did my pet goat get banned for being incredibly ignorant? I vote Puke off the island next. He always represents the dankest of du or dailyKos.

"There's a BIG friggin' dif... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"There's a BIG friggin' difference between occupying a country and being granted an air force base by the Saudi Arabian government."

Not according to OBL

"Exiled Saudi Osama bin Laden has cited the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia as a core grievance in his self-proclaimed holy war against the United States. Fifteen of the 19 September 11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, according to the U.S. government."

Just the facts!

jaku:You really... (Below threshold)
marc:

jaku:

You really think the terrorists sit around and watch C-Span waiting for Dick Durbin to speak, and then they go, now we must kill US troops, because of what a US Senator said? Are you that deluded or naive?
Gee. I never realized Durbin and his ilk were only on C-Span! Of course that's not true and just gives you the weakest of foundations to support your statement.

Lets recall Abu Ghraib for a second. The images of Iraqis clothed in orange jumpsuits are undeniable.

One question jaku, do you suppose the jihadist cut-throats that kidnapped and beheaded Berg dreamed up the idea his execution wardrobe would be an orange jumpsuit? Do you think it was just a happy coincidence (for them) they chose orange?

Or do you believe they saw the media coverage (except C-Span) of the prison controversy and used it to their advantage.

I suppose it was also "just luck" Ayman al-Zawahiri issued this statement just after Bush wrongly predicted U.S. troops would be reduced in number by the end of 2006:

"I will congratulate it [the Islamic nation] today on the victory of Islam in Iraq....Bush the liar was forced to announce in late November [2005] that he would withdraw his troops from Iraq. However, being addicted to lying, his justified his withdrawal by saying that the Iraqi troops have reached a good level and that he would not announce a timetable for withdrawal.
Just a coincidence right jaku?

Or a media savvy jihadist-cut-throat who not only spends his day watching the media but takes every opportunity to use it to his advantage.

So, w3hich is it jaku?

"I would suggest that by wa... (Below threshold)
Chip:

"I would suggest that by wanting them to get home as safely and as soon as possible, before Bush's term is out....With Cheney at Bush's ear, they could be still be fighting an unconvential war without any clear chance of victory on their upteenth tour of hard duty, long after Bush is living his, soft retirement, writing his memoirs, in Crawford."

Steve, how does the left propose we get them home without leaving Iraq worse off? Or does the left not care how we leave the Iraqi people? I suspect the answer is no they don't.

America has lost i... (Below threshold)
Langtry:
America has lost its will to fight. It has lost its will to defend what is right and just in the world. The crazy thing of it all is that the American people have not even been asked to sacrifice a single thing. It's not like World War II, where people rationed food and turned in cars to be made into metal for tanks. The American people have not been asked to sacrifice anything. Unless you are in the military or the family member of a servicemember, its life as usual...the war doesn't affect you.
And therein lies the problem.

We Americans form our opinion of the war by what an entertainment or political celebrity has to say than from what a soldier has to tell them from the front lines. Pathetic.

Reading Sgt. Jeffers' words, it makes me want to bring the troops home. Why? Because I am beginning to feel we don't deserve their sacrifice, and we don't deserve the safety that results from their efforts. We take our well-being entirely for granted, and we won't suffer any diminishment of our materialistic, entertainment-obsessed lives in order to create a better nation and a better world. We should be ashamed of ourselves!

Jaku:<blockquo... (Below threshold)
Langtry:

Jaku:

I hate to break it to you, but 140000 US troops in the heart of the Arab world is what emboldens 'terrorists'.
How then to explain the attacks on the Beirut Marine Barracks, Khobar Towers, the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the USS Cole, and September 11th? We didn't have 140,000 troops in the so-called Arab World then.

When will you understand that the mere existence of America (and the Western World, for that matter) emboldens terrorists?

If you would bother to ... (Below threshold)
marc:

If you would bother to read OBL manifesto, one reason he attacked the US was because we had a permeant air-base in Mecca. Posted by: BarneyG2000

You're correct about one thing, Osama did have that as a reason. However if YOU had actually read his fatwa of 1996 you would realize 99.9% of his "complaints" were directed at the Saudi gov and had little to do with the U.S. presence in the Kingdom. (A presence that is near non-existent at this point.)

Including this little tidbit among many: "(8) Shari'a law was suspended and man made law was used instead."

So tell me barney[rubble]2000, just what did the U.S. have to do with the Kingdom suspending Shari's law, or the other dozens of reason he gives that the U.S. had nothing to do with.

When will you understand... (Below threshold)
mantis:

When will you understand that the mere existence of America (and the Western World, for that matter) emboldens terrorists?

Well, emboldening of terrorists is given as a reason for dissenters to keep quiet, for the media to stop reporting bad news, for the Congress not to pass resolutions, etc. Are you saying that the US and the Western world should cease to exist, or are you not of the mindset that we should determine all of our actions on whether they embolden terrorists or not?

Barney:Congratulat... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Barney:

Congratulate yourself! You have something in common with OBL: You both don't know the difference between an "occupation" and a "presence" (a word OBL does NOT use in his 1998 fatwa), and I quote directly from the fatwa:

"First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples. (Emphasis mine.)

And I have NO idea what you're quoting, but it sure as hell isn't the 1998 fatwa.

Here is the email I just se... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

Here is the email I just sent to Sgt. Jeffers:

Please do not for a MINUTE believe that the images the media portrays convey the true feelings of America. There are MILLIONS of us whose eyes sparkle with tears of pride, admiration, and gratitude when we see a man or woman in uniform. We are thankful for your service and sacrifices. You and your brothers and sisters in arms are braver and more noble than those who criticize, people who aren't fit to shine your boots.

You are protecting more than our way of life: you are standing up for our very civilization. You are fighting a battle of good and evil. To quote a stanza of "America, the Beautiful."

O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved, And mercy more than life!
America! America! May God thy gold refine,
Til all success be nobleness And every gain divine!

You and all who serve are living the ideals of our country. God bless you.

And you NEVER ride alone--you are surrounded by the prayers and good wishes of those who understand.

***
Can't we just stop the bickering and unite from this point forward?

The American people have th... (Below threshold)

The American people have the right and civic responsibility to condemn the corrupt and incompetent civilian leadership that has led this country into disaster in Iraq. Iraq didn't have to turn out this way. George Bush broke Iraq into a million pieces and then handed the keys to Al Qaeda (by, for example, disbanding the Iraqi military and throwing half a million angry Iraqi men onto the streets with no way to put food on the table).

Sheer, utter and gross incompetence has created the situation we face today. These problems won't go away if we are silent about them. Simply continuing to blindly follow the leadership of George Bush will only get more of our finest killed and maimed, and secure Al Qaeda's control of western Iraq. We need leaders who can study and understand the complexities of the situation, not those who rely on their "gut instinct". We've had just about enough of GW's gut instinct.

marc, please see peter's re... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

marc, please see peter's response.

These problems won't go ... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

These problems won't go away if we are silent about them

That's where you are wrong! If we all kept out mouths shut, and just clapped loudly for Dear Leader, then everything will be just fine! How dare anyone criticize Dear Leader? Just who do they think they are? Don't they know by asking questions, you only assist the enemy?

And if we all clap very loudly, Iraq will become a glorious democracy and every other middle eastern country will be soon to follow, and then Preznit Bush will be hailed as the bestest pres ever!

And I am so damn sick of that word embolden, that's this years forbidden word.

Perhaps all you 'if we just... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Perhaps all you 'if we just kill them all everyhing will be fine' types should read this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_go_pr_wh/iraq_intelligence_estimate

I know, I know, it's that damn evil liberal media again, actually reporting facts that just helps the enemy. Maybe if we did away with our free press, that would show the enemy we mean business.

Oh, and we lost 4 helicopters in less than a month too. Any comments on that? I bet the enemy is sure on the run, aren't they?

Jeffers wrote: "The enem... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Jeffers wrote: "The enemy is transitioning from the Muslim extremists to Americans. The enemy is becoming the very people whom we defend with our lives. And they do not realize it. But in denouncing our actions, denouncing our leaders, denouncing the war we live and fight, they are isolating the military from society...and they are becoming our enemy."

I'll take this up with your superiors, soldier, but suggesting that the members of Congress and members of the American public who oppose this war have become your enemy is out of line.

Apparently your state of mind is such that you can no longer discern who the enemy is. If that's the case, you might not be fit for your current duty and assignment.

I wish that no harm comes to you, Sgt. Jeffers, and I appreciate your dedication and service to our country, but it is my belief that we need to insure you are not in a position where you can do harm to innocents as a result your confused mental state, soldier, and I intend to make your confused state of mind known to your superior officers. I encourage others to do likewise.

Prove your horseshit quo... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Prove your horseshit quotes w/ links

I'm sorry, I overestimated you. I thought that the reference to Fark.com, and the time period of "days after 9/11" would give you a really large hint. Fark.com, archives, September 11, 2001. Should be easy enough for someone to show you how to look it up.

All of my quotes were from Fark discussion boards from the week of 9/11. There are, literally, thousands more available in various archives of those and other discussion boards from those days. The fact that you think there aren't any just shows you were either not paying attention, or have a very weak memory.

Your attack &/or refutation of the poll cited is just a case of "attack the messenger."

Actually, it's a case of "the messenger is telling lies about what the message actually says."


Apparently, we're having more of those "we didn't say what we said" moments from the crazy Left...

"Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes?"

Sgt. Jeffers said ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Sgt. Jeffers said "America is not a nation at war; they are a nation with its military at war."

One of the reasons I have felt that fighting the war in Iraq is necessary, is to win lasting peace for our nation, but after reading Sgt. Jeffers' article, I'm beginning to believe the American people don't deserve to live in peace while their military is fighting both an enemy on the battlefield and an ungrateful, unsupportive, whining public. Maybe it's better to bring the troops home even if the enemy follows them here. At least then the nation would be at war, not just the military.

Perhaps all you 'if we j... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Perhaps all you 'if we just kill them all everyhing will be fine' types should read this
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_go_pr_wh/iraq_intelligence_estimate
I know, I know, it's that damn evil liberal media again, actually reporting facts that just helps the enemy. Maybe if we did away with our free press, that would show the enemy we mean business.

You need to actually read the article, instead of just the title and a couple of quotes.

As usual, when the actual report is released, we'll find that the bits you reference are the worst parts, with little mention of the parts that counterbalance them (this has happened a couple of times so far, and led to the declassification of at least one previous NIE).

For example, note the one paragraph of possible good news is immeidately countered by a bit of non-report editorializing of how the good news can't really happen.


Just perfect, Sgt. Jeffers!... (Below threshold)
codekeyguy:

Just perfect, Sgt. Jeffers!!!!!!!!Keep safe.

Oh, yeah, one more thing:</... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Oh, yeah, one more thing:

Maybe if we did away with our free press,

You need to take that bit up with the Democrats, who are busliy trying to make the press much less "free." Right now, as part of their work to fix things, they're trying to get the FCC to crack down on "indecent" broadcasts.

We, on the other hand, aren't going after the "freedom" part, as we just want them to step up to the plate on the "honest and responsible" angles that they seem to be averse to dealing with.

Oh I read the article cirb.... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Oh I read the article cirb. You mentioned the good news paragraph, yet you didn't cite it. I will for you.

Indeed, the estimate said some positive developments could -- analysts stressed "could" -- help reverse negative trends. They include broader acceptance of the Sunni minority of the central government and concessions on the part of Shiites and Kurds to make more room for Sunni participation.

But the outlook for such progress was grim. Long persecuted by governing Sunnis, majority Shiites now in power are unwilling to engage Sunnis. The Sunnis, meanwhile, view the central government as incompetent and do not want to accept their minority status. And Kurds are provoking Arab groups by moving to increase their control of Kirkuk.

Is that the good news, cause that really didn't look to chipper to me. we do see things differently, but also include past events and taken as a whole this is not what I'd call possible good news. Possible, but not likely.

marc, please see peter'... (Below threshold)
marc:

marc, please see peter's response.
Posted by: BarneyG2000 at February 2, 2007

AND?

If you didn't notice I'm waiting for something meaningful from you.

Perhaps you're confused, (yes I'm the master of the obvious) but my first response to you conceded osama's desire for the U.S. Military to leave Saudi Arabia.

Your response pointing to a quote from his fatwa of 1996 as noted by Peter F also states that.

So your point is????

Also note 7 years from the '96 fatwa would be 2003. The King Fuad air base used by the US Air Force, and invited by the Saudi's to use, is no longer used by the US and all but a very small number, as opposed to thousands, of US personal remain in the Kingdom.

On a related note. barney[rubble]2000 do you have the slightest clue what/where Andulusia is and how it relates to the Spain train bombings? And osama?

Steve, how does the left... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Steve, how does the left propose we get them home without leaving Iraq worse off?

How does the right propose we get them home and leave Iraq better off? Because right now the government isn't forming, the violence is increasing, and anti-American feelings are growing. So what is Bush's plan for changing all that? So far the only plan I'm aware of is "to win". How is he using our troops to accomplish this goal? How exactly do we know when we've reached the goal? How many Americans must die before we admit the goal is unattainable? Or does the right not care how many Americans die? I suspect the answer is yes they do.

Marc, my point is, one of t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Marc, my point is, one of the reasons OBL attacked us was because of our presence/occupation in Arab muslim countries. That was OBL's rational , and not mine. If you do not believe that this is true, than please tell us why OBL attacked. Maybe it was because of our growing porn industry, or love for pork rinds.

Barney, In your or... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Barney,

In your orginial response to cirby ( February 2, 2007 03:58 PM), you directly imply to cirby that our former base in S.A. was some kind of "occupation" when, in fact, it was nothing of the sort. While it is very true that OBL used that alleged "occupation"--among his other psychotic ramblings in his fatwa--as an excuse for launching attacks against Western targets, what OBL (and you to some extent) ignores is that that base existed almost exclusively in response to and to curb the actions of the original source of aggression in that region--Saddam Hussein's Iraq. That base helped enforce the No-Fly Zone in Iraq for 12 years and also protected Saudi and Kuwaiti borders from possible invasion--all with Saudi permission. But, like the true anti-Semite and bigot that he is, OBL conveninently overlooks that undeniable fact.

What you are seemingly doing is using OBL's rationale to, in a twisted way, say 'Look, if we hadn't been occupying or had a presense in S.A., OBL and AQ wouldn't have attacked...." To which the only correct repsonse can be "bullshit." Now , if that's NOT what you're saying--and I really hope it isn't--then clarify your position as to why you brought it up.

The point of this is this: If it's not a base, it's our support for those "Zionists" in Israel; or because we didn't let some blind sheik free after blowing up a building or because of this or that and on and on and on. It does NOT matter what we do to appease them, no matter how far we pull back or "redeploy" or "withdraw" or, even if we were drop every last dollar of support and political backing of Israel tomorrow, the Islamofascists would STILL find a reason to carry out attacks on the West. So, either we turn our backs to it or fight it everyway possible.

Oh I read the article ci... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Oh I read the article cirb. You mentioned the good news paragraph, yet you didn't cite it. I will for you.

...yet you don't seem to understand what they pulled in the second paragraph.

You see, the first paragraph was probably lifted from the report, since it states things in solid, practical terms.

The second? Pure editorial. Everything from "But the outlook for such progress was grim." It's a pretty slick move, since they know that folks like yourself will assume that the second part was said by the analysts, because you won't note the complete change in tone and content. They did this with the last few leaks of NIEs, and pretty much everyone fell for it then, too - and when the full reports came out, it was already "conventional wisdom" for the Left.

Marc, my point is, one o... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Marc, my point is, one of the reasons OBL attacked us was because of our presence/occupation in Arab muslim countries. That was OBL's rational , and not mine.

...and along with that one reason (not the one you originally quoted about "occupation"), he listed a lot of other "causes." In previous and subsequent comments, he listed all sorts of crap, such as support for Israel, not to mention that whole "Zionist-Crusader Alliance."

Look at that next-to-last word again. "Crusader." He thinks we're the same people his ancestors fought a millenium or so back. Many other Muslims feel the same, and want to "regain" every piece of land that has even been occupied by Islamic forces. Like much of Europe.

Part of the justification (and he rants a lot about this in the various fatwas) is our "alliance" with Russia in the slaughter of Islamic people all over the world - even though we're not part of that, and much of that slaughter was Islamic-Islamic atrocities. No matter what, it's stil our fault.

The US "occupation" of bases in Saudi Arabia is a really trivial addition to his list of bile, and only put in to let fools think he might have a point. It apparently worked in your case.


Peter, I don't know what po... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Peter, I don't know what posts you have been reading, my point all long was the OBL, among other rants, points to the "occupiers" as a reason for the attack.

At no point did I endorse or agree with his logic, or make any comment to the need, wisdom or usefulness of the air base.

cirby said that there were no US forces in the Middle East prior to the 9/11 attack which is completely wrong.

cirbyIn regard to ... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

cirby

In regard to your Fark quotes, I took a look at the archives and couldn't find whatever the hell you think you're quoting.

Cough up some links, if you have any. As far as accepting your freehand quotations, I don't just accept hot air.

One thing I did notice on the Fark archive from the week of 9/11: if you added the number of all the comments for the entire month of September 2001 ON ALL THE STORIES LISTED, regardless of topic, you'd be hard pressed to come up w/ 1000's for all stories listed. Moreover, whatever the hell Fark is, I suspect it is far from a forum for all liberals or even millions of liberals.

Bottom line: even if you could document, W/ LINKS, some of the horse shit you quoted above, it would hardly be reflective of the vast majority of the American left, liberals or Democrats.

Based on your alleged quotes, I think you've been eating the shit from Scrapcrap's last change of his overflowing Depends.

Bottom line: even if yo... (Below threshold)
marc:

Bottom line: even if you could document, W/ LINKS, .... Posted by: aRepukelican at February 2, 2007 09:56 PM

Which means what? Can we expect you to provide links to each and every citation you provide in the future?

going back to the original ... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

going back to the original letter..
This man has seen fellow troops die and maimed..
of course he is angry..of course he is frustrated..
When any of us become angry and frustrated we want to point fingers..
However, Cindy Sheehan has not directed policy that has led us to this place 4 years later.
Joe Scarbourgh is no Cindy Sheehan. Did you catch his show the other night? He blasted Bush/Cheney/Snow for alluding that Sen. Warner was enabling bin Laden.

The 2006 election results were about Iraq. The 2008 elections will be even more about Iraq. Those Republicans that stand with Bush/Cheney as they continue to ignore reality will be defeated.
Our nation has shifted opinion, grudgingly, because EVERY TIME we were told it was getting better was wrong.

I pray this man returns in good physical and mental health...as I pray they all do...
But every day we stay...more will not..and for what?

barneygoole:old sc... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

barneygoole:

old scrap' could be dumber then dirt but that would still leave you 500' below him.

pukeface: you are a perfect example of a moonbat.

nogo postoffice:

poor old Joe Scar. get about as much viewers as you would. Dead LAST. What the heck do we care what a Rino such as Warner says. Just a cowardly liberal with a rightwing badge.

I'm wondering when people l... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

I'm wondering when people like Crickmore abandoned the "support the troops" part of "Support the troops but hate the war" mantra.

Because Steve CLEARLY doesn't support the troops.
-=Mike

Great job trolls, bringing ... (Below threshold)
epador:

Great job trolls, bringing this down to grade-school name calling and taunting.

[First response will be - no HE started it, not me]

Pathetic.

BarneyG:cirby sai... (Below threshold)
cirby:

BarneyG:
cirby said that there were no US forces in the Middle East prior to the 9/11 attack which is completely wrong.

Liar.

Puke:
In regard to your Fark quotes, I took a look at the archives and couldn't find whatever the hell you think you're quoting

Then you're really, really inept.

But we knew that.

Fark.com -> archives -> Archive from September 16, 2001 -> Sept 11 -> NEWS FLASH -> find "Bush", second occurrence -> the "folks" crack.

09:31:54 AM by Henchman

The buildings hadn't even fallen down yet, and assholes like yourself were already slamming the President.

The rest of my quotes were from the following couple of days on Fark.

One more thing:... (Below threshold)
cirby:

One more thing:

if you added the number of all the comments for the entire month of September 2001 ON ALL THE STORIES LISTED, regardless of topic, you'd be hard pressed to come up w/ 1000's for all stories listed.

Here's the actual quote: "There are, literally, thousands more available in various archives of those and other discussion boards from those days."

AND OTHER DISCUSSION BOARDS, moron. Fark is a discussion board. This is another one.

Learn how to read.

Idiot.

Jaku at February 2, ... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

Jaku at February 2, 2007 02:56 PM

I was unaware that Cindy Sheehan and Al Franken had anything to do with the planning or execution of the invasion of Iraq. Yet their names come up all over the right blogs as if they are responsible for the failures in Iraq.

nogo postal at February 2, 2007 10:56 PM

However, Cindy Sheehan has not directed policy that has led us to this place 4 years later.

Jaku at February 2, 2007 03:36 PM

I hate to break it to you, but 140000 US troops in the heart of the Arab world is what emboldens the 'terrorists'. Abu Gharib emboldens terrorists. Bush saying "Bring em on" emboldens the terrorists.

You really think the terrorists sit around and watch C-Span waiting for Dick Durbin to speak, and then they go, now we must kill US troops, because of what a US Senator said? Are you that deluded or naive?

The terrorists don't need any encouragement. The fact that we are occupying a Muslim country is what gives them cause to hate us and want to kill us, not what some US politician said.

Again, the projection here is simply astonishing. It's not Bush's fault, no, it's Hillary's fault because she wants the troops to come home and she is vocal about it.

Wow.

A refutation of the logic used by jaku and nogo postal is available not from me, but from a gentleman named Ion Mihai Pacepa, who used to work for an organization named Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti (from the National Review article authored by General Pacepa; emphasis mine):

As a spy chief and a general in the former Soviet satellite of Romania, I produced the very same vitriol Kerry repeated to the U.S. Congress almost word for word and planted it in leftist movements throughout Europe. KGB chairman Yuri Andropov managed our anti-Vietnam War operation. He often bragged about having damaged the U.S. foreign-policy consensus, poisoned domestic debate in the U.S., and built a credibility gap between America and European public opinion through our disinformation operations. Vietnam was, he once told me, "our most significant success."

(snip)

As far as I'm concerned, the KGB gave birth to the antiwar movement in America.

So contrary to jaku and nogo postal's assertions, spreading negative, slanderous rhetoric regarding the actions of US troops (either fabricated, alleged, or misrepresenting the actions of a statistically insignificant few as those of US forces in general), has a detrimental effect, one that is well known to our enemies.

Listen to Ahmadinejad's or Khatami's recent speeches. They really do watch our political debates, and they pay attention to detail. Don't believe me? Go to MEMRI's website and read the translated speeches there.

Then, if you are really smart, you will begin to ask things like: who pays for Cindy Sheehan? who sponsors her? who funds the few turncoat soldiers who claim that they are against the war? What is the role of Fenton Communications in the scheme of things? And who stands to gain from an American withdrawal from Iraq? who loses? Soros' actions in the currency markets are legendary. What does he gain from a negative economic shift of power away from the US? How will emboldening terrorists against the US accomplish that goal?

The Saudis have already announced that should the US withdraw from Iraq right now, they will likely send in troops to help "stabilize" Iraq. Iran is already providing money and personnel to wage covert war and stir up sectarian violence.

Finally, to those who claim that Iraq was "a war for Oil": what benefit has the US reaped in three years from Iraqi oil, if that statement is true?

Food for thought.

Barney,"... (Below threshold)
DCE:

Barney,


"If you would bother to read OBL manifesto, one reason he attacked the US was because we had a permeant air-base in Mecca."

"Keep up the good work, and don't let the facts stand in the way."

I wish you would get your facts straight. We did not and never had a base in or near Mecca. That would have created such a furor because of the large number of infidels near one of the holiest Islamic cities.

US forces where stationed in and around King Khalid Military City (KKMC) just outside Riyadh until they withdrew into Kuwait, Aden, Oman, and Yemen. By the time 9/11 happened there were few, if any, US military forces in Saudi Arabia.

Geez.

Nogo has a grain of insight... (Below threshold)
epador:

Nogo has a grain of insight in one comment. some condescending thing about being angry and then pointing fingers. Seems to me that the folks pointing fingers at the CINC and bawling BDS trash-talk are the ones that are angry. If they gain insight at the true source of their anger, they might find themselves on the road to enlightenment, and either a new political alignment or a deep depression and embarrassment. On the other hand, with a little genetic engineering, pigs could fly.

'US forces where stationed ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

'US forces where stationed in and around King Khalid Military City (KKMC) just outside Riyadh until they withdrew into Kuwait, Aden, Oman, and Yemen. By the time 9/11 happened there were few, if any, US military forces in Saudi Arabia." DCE

O-Really

The Prince Sultan Air Base is located 80km south of Riyadh. During the decade following Operation Desert Storm, it was host to upwards of 4,500 US military personnel and an undisclosed number of aircraft. During mid-2003 the roughly 4,500 US troops at Prince Sultan redeployed from Saudi Arabia to Qatar, leaving about 500 in Saudi Arabia, primarily at Eskan Village.

DCE, who you crapping?

Barney:The Prince... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Barney:
The Prince Sultan Air Base is located 80km south of Riyadh.
Which is also not at all close to Mecca, let alone IN as you asserted. Unless you count anything in the nation as "close".
Here, a visual aid




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