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Edwards Says 18,000 Die Each Year from Lack of Health Coverage

I really don't mean to be picking on John Edwards, but this statement was too serious to ignore. I did not see Edwards' Meet the Press interview this weekend, but did see him on Today this morning talking briefly about health care. Thanks to Susan in NC who pointed me to the following from a Rob Christensen article in the Raleigh N&O about that MTP appearance.

The Edwards campaign estimates that 18,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance and therefore don't get proper medical care.
That is a lot of people. In fact, that is even more people than have died in Bush's "illegal war for oil" in Iraq. I am not a math wiz, but figure it is almost six times more people in one year, than have died in four years in Iraq. For at least the past three years, I have heard a lot of criticism of Bush's handling of Iraq. I have heard the death tolls that get heralded at every possible "milestone" being blamed almost exclusively on Bush's "mishandling" of the war. If almost six times more people die in one year due to a lack of health insurance than have died in almost four years of war in Iraq, shouldn't we be hearing more criticism of the President who entered office promising to fix health care?


In fact, President Clinton made health care his top priority (second only possibly to that middle class tax cut that he worked harder on that anything in his life, but realized after a month in office couldn't be done). Clinton had eight years in office with what was lauded as the most wonderful economy in the history of the world, yet he failed to fix the health care problem in America and the result is more deaths each year than in four years in Iraq. Shouldn't those deaths be blamed on the person who mishandled health care during that time? I know Clinton put someone in charge of health care. Now who was that? I am sure it will come to me. If it doesn't, I'll bet some Democratic presidential candidates will come up with the name during the primaries.

For those who say Bush should have done something about it before now, I will remind readers that he did advocate health savings accounts early on, but I agree in wishing something more substantial had been proposed earlier -- when Republicans controlled Congress. I do understand why it wasn't though. When Bush entered office he inherited an economy in recession and was hit with the 9/11 attacks, and the financial aftermath of them, less than 9 months after taking office. Addressing the problem of health care is never going to be easy, but it would certainly have been easier when not trying to conduct a war at the same time. I just wonder if we will hear some death toll milestones for those 18,000 people a year who Edwards says die as a result of no health insurance, and whether or not we will hear some criticism for the individual who almost single handedly "mishandled" the issue back in those Clinton golden years.


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Comments (59)

Clinton had eight years ... (Below threshold)

Clinton had eight years in office with what was lauded as the most wonderful economy in the history of the world, yet he failed to fix the health care problem in America and the result is more deaths each year than in four years in Iraq. Shouldn't those deaths be blamed on the person who mishandled health care during that time?

Right on. Ben Goddard and Rick Claussen of Goddard Claussen are two people who should get a lion's share of the blame for those deaths. Who are Ben Goddard and Rick Claussen you ask?

They are public relations consultants who created the ingenious television commercials featuring a middle class couple, "Harry and Louise", who sat at their kitchen table despairing over the Clinton health care plan and urging viewers to contact their Congressmen about it. These commercials were some of the most effective political ads in history and are widely viewed as playing an instrumental role in defeating the Clinton plan.

18,000 - I would actually t... (Below threshold)
jp2:

18,000 - I would actually think this number is much, much higher. Preventive medicine is a must for several diseases - cancer, diabetes and heart problems which are all serious killers that are often diagnosed in the later stages of the disease. People without a regular doctor - a massive number, especially in urban areas - do not get these health problems caught early enough. The ER doesn't cut it for long term health issues.

I'm ignoring the rest of the drivel Lorie wrote for obvious reasons.

18,000? Here is a... (Below threshold)
Langtry:

18,000?

Here is a classic case of advocacy masquerading as science. When you are advocating for an issue, whether it is universal health care or banning silicone breast implants, you are going to approach the quantitative side of the equation in an expansionist fashion. Count anyone, even those with a the most tangential of connections to your cause celebre:

1) anyone who doesn't have PPO or private health insurance
2) anyone who has some coverage but doesn't like to go to the doctor
3) homebound seniors
4) mentally ill who don't comply with treatment orders
5) illegal aliens who go to E.R.'s because they don't want to form a relationship with an M.D. (who will expect them to pay a small portion of the cost of the services they receive)
6) people who are hospital- or clinic-phobic (and wouldn't go to an M.D. even if they did have coverage)
7) prison escapees
8) babies who are unable to take themselves to their pediatrician ...

And so on, and so on, and so on in increasing levels of ridiculousness.

John Edwards talking about health care is like Al Gore lecturing on Global Warming: anything and everything counts as long as it aggrandizes him and his pet issue. Science, logic, and fact matter not when the issue is politics and personal ambition. And we're dumb enough to buy it!

Estimate of 18,000 ehh?... (Below threshold)
914:

Estimate of 18,000 ehh?

I estimate that Edwards is a profiteering fearmongering trial attorney that will never be satisfied until the next big jury award to pay for His new country club.

LorieAre you sugge... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Lorie

Are you suggesting that the 18K deaths/year due to a lack of insurance are fraudulent?

Or are you using them to legitimize the Bush Iraqi deathtoll as insignificant in contrast?

In regard to Clinton, as so many of the Wizfools have said so often in the past, "Bill Clinton isn't running in 2008," not to mention that he hasn't been president for over 6 years. At least, that's the way the Wizcrowd dismissed criticism of Bush.

And, if you do accept the numbers as legitimate, it's as Larkin points out. You Republicans reveled in killing any possibility of Health Care under Clinton as long as their weren't provisions for vastly increased profiteering.

If you think those silly "medical savings" accounts would do anything for people who cannot afford health care, just where were they to get the $'s to put into their accounts, given the decline in median income family purchasing power in the 6 years of the Bush regime?

Of course, $750 billion not thrown down Bush's Iraqi toilet could have gone a long way to providing health care.

I'd like to see the researc... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

I'd like to see the research behind the 18,000 figure. Any one have a link?

The liberal abortion agenda... (Below threshold)
GianniD:

The liberal abortion agenda murders over a million innocent babies every year, no compassion there.

How many are murdered in big liberal cities, like Detriot, Newark, NOLA, LA, NY Boston, Chicago, etc? No compassion there.

About 58,000 kids are abducted every yr by non family members, what have libs done? On the contrary , lib lunatics like Judge Rapkin from FL are more interested in 'criminals rights' than kids safety.

That the far left lunatics as if they they care about soldiers lives, or any lives for that matter is as much of a joke as Gore and hanoi john claiming they are environmentalists, as they drive in too big SUVs, fly in private aircraft, or energize their numerous homes.

Responding to this, and a p... (Below threshold)
robert the original:

Responding to this, and a prior thread in which Puke claimed lawsuits have little or no impact on health insurance premiums.

Puke, your Google search produced articles from the Michigan Trial Lawyers Association, a Louisiana medical malpractice lawyer, the New Republic, and so on - all with a "dog in the hunt" and not the dispatched scientific studies one might have hoped for.

Edwards is known for a specialty in cerebral palsy cases, caused in childbirth he claimed, by physicians "failing" to perform cesarean sections. He filed scores of these cases and was almost single-handedly responsible for large increases in medical malpractice premiums for gynecologists and neurologists in North Carolina.

It was apparently all BS:

In 2003, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists published a joint study that cast serious doubt on whether events at childbirth cause cerebral palsy. The "vast majority" of cerebral palsy cases originate long before childbirth, according to the study.

This is not anything like the scientific basis Edwards would have needed to support taking 300 million from North Carolina doctors, hospitals and insurance companies in his factory operation. It became the rule, rather than the exception, for Edwards to sign up newly diagnosed cerebral palsy victims. To boot, cesarean sections were more frequently recommended and used, causing untold and unnecessary pain and recovery for the mothers of North Carolina.

There is little debate that insurance premiums went up significantly for North Carolina Gynecologists as a result, causing many to leave the State, switch specialties or buck it up and raise prices.

Edwards was very skilled, observers say, at parading his cerebral palsy victims about the courtroom and exacting the maximum sympathy. His personal 100 million dollar fortune was made on this however, not on science or "protecting the little guy."

Assuming that the 300 million awarded in just these Edwards cases was passed on to the covered employees of North Carolina (about 3M) it would amount to about $100 per employee (very rough estimate). This does not include the cost of the additional work and testing doctors and staff would have done to protect against suit.

To say that all of this had no impact on the affordability of general health insurance in North Carolina is well...silly.


jp2:<blockquot... (Below threshold)
Langtry:

jp2:

Preventive medicine is a must for several diseases a massive number, especially in urban areas - do not get these health problems caught early enough.

Is Edwards aware that most healthcare plans do not cover any form of preventive medicine, except those which are addressed in the form of prescription drugs? It's a good thing to do, no doubt: but Edwards plan (and any other candidate's healthcare plan) doesn't address preventive medicine. He merely seeks to be able to say that everyone has "coverage", which is likely to be minimal at best.

Are you suggesting that ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Are you suggesting that the 18K deaths/year due to a lack of insurance are fraudulent?

She's not suggesting that, she's letting the number stand as a big "if", because she can have it both ways. Either Edwards is pulling the number out of thin air, in which case he is full of shit and can be bashed, or the number is a sound estimate and thus can be used to bash Clinton (why don't we just start with that and see what happens?)! What is interesting here is the, gasp, double standard used in said bashing.

After taking office Clinton sets up the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, headed by Hillary, which generates an extensive and (overly) complex proposal you may or may not remember as HillaryCare. Conservatives and the health insurance industry then launched a huge campaign to defeat the proposal. The Democrats in Congress then started offering counter-proposals and the whole thing fell apart in 1994. Then the Republicans took Congress, and they weren't even going to consider any such proposal. So, it died.

That's the story, regardless of whether you liked the proposal or not. Now here is Lorie on Bush's record with health care reform: "He advocated savings plans years ago but there's been wars to fight so he's been busy and can't be blamed, and oh I wish the Republicans and the President did something but they didn't and I blame Clinton."

It was flawed and it failed, but at least Clinton proposed something. The fact that Republicans haven't even tried can be waved away easily. Hey, they had some wars to start!

If "everyone has coverage" ... (Below threshold)
jp2:

If "everyone has coverage" that means that they will at least get a 1 year physical covered by their insurance company. That's a big part of preventive medicine right there - heart and lungs are checked. I don't know the specifics of his plan, but bare-bones coverage makes a big leap.

Whats preventing people fro... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Whats preventing people from going out and purchasing their own coverage? Ahh, they were probably slacking off and partying all through school, and now that they are adult losers w/ job skills that are barely desirable, they cant afford it after they get their bag of dope, beers, and lotto tickets??/

Did people like Chris Reeve... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Did people like Chris Reeve walk yet, or was that yet another campaign lie from the left???

jp2,I was surprised ... (Below threshold)

jp2,
I was surprised to find that everyone's health insurance covered one physical a year. I am not sure whether or not my new plan does, but the one I had the past few years definitely did NOT and it was with Blue Cross Blue Shield and we paid a small fortune in premiums for it.

Mantis -- This characterization of my position, "He advocated savings plans years ago but there's been wars to fight so he's been busy and can't be blamed, and oh I wish the Republicans and the President did something but they didn't and I blame Clinton" is not quite right. There have been wars to fight. Bush has been busy, but I did say I wished he had done something more substantial while Republicans were still in office.

I do blame Clinton for his failures. You can't have it both ways. If the Clinton economy was so all fired perfect, best ever, then why did Clinton squander it all? He left Bush to inherit an economy going into recession. The fact that in spite of the 9/11 attacks (which cost the country billions) and two wars, and a record breaking CAT 5 hurricane that devastated the Gulf Coast, Bush was able to steer this economy to what many indicators show as stronger than even Bubba's is an amazing feat that no one wants to recognize.

Clinton was a coward. He was afraid to do anything unpopular so he preferred spending his time playing around (in more ways that one) to actually getting anything substantial accomplished. Welfare reform was his big accomplishment and it came as a result of polls (and Dick Morris) that told him he had to finally sign it that third time or the voters would turn against him. He did try something huge with HillaryCare, but he botched it. That was my point. When it comes to Clinton botching something that if Edwards is right (and he may be) kills over five times more people every year than four years in Iraq, he gets a pass. I don't like the double standard or the thought that Hillary will probably not be held to account for her miserable failure. Although Edwards looks like he might just be setting up an attempt to hold her accountable. I guess I am writing more about the Dem candidates lately because the dynamics are so interesting. It will be great political theater.

C'mon, the guy can speak... (Below threshold)

C'mon, the guy can speak with the dead (at least in court)! Are you really going to argue with him on death tolls?

Gianni:"Whats prev... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Gianni:

"Whats preventing people from going out and purchasing their own coverage?"

My monthly premium for a family of four is nearly $700. I'm fortunate that my employer covers my portion. For those not in such a position, that's close to $8400 per year, just for health insurance. That might have something to do with preventing people from getting coverage.

And another thing, why can't we all just STFU about who did or didn't do this or that and just work on fixing what is obviously a problem? We pay more for health care per capita than just about anyone, and yet we have among the highest infant mortality rate, pretty much lead the league in preventable mortality (heart dz, etc) and over 40 million uncovered people. We can do better.

What's not covered here is ... (Below threshold)

What's not covered here is just what makes this the governments responsibility. We are not a socialist state, at least not completely... not yet...

It's neither Clinton's nor Bush's fault, nor any past administrations. We might as well make to government responsible to stop deaths caused by old age.

"When Bush entered office h... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"When Bush entered office he inherited an economy in recession..." -- Lorie Byrd

Lorie, much as you would prefer that your readers believe otherwise, the
last recession began in March, 2001, that is, several weeks into the Bush presidency.

On the other hand, Lorie, w... (Below threshold)
Herman:

On the other hand, Lorie, what Bush did inherit from Clinton was a record budget surplus which he promptly squandered, turning it into a quarter-of-a-trillion-dollar deficit that we're still paying interest on.

The economy was already hea... (Below threshold)

The economy was already headed for a recession even before the election.

Just an observation here. D... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Just an observation here. Do Lorie and others from the right think George Bush is only the President of the Iraq War? If so, lets cut his pay cause his performance has been abysmal.

LBCFE Syndrome in action again.

Comparing Iraq deaths to he... (Below threshold)
tas:

Comparing Iraq deaths to health care deaths, even without looking at the leaders involved in each situation, doesn't make sense. Health care is an immensely complex system that no one person can be held responsible for (and especially not a person who last held power in 2000!), whereas the Iraq war was a choice made by one person and that's why they have beared the burnt of the criticism for the resulting deaths. I understand that you think everyone on the left is a bunch of bloody hypocrites, Lorie, but your attempt to paint them as such is not only a massive overreach but, given the subject matter, it's a post you should be ashamed of. Instead of continuing John Edwards conversation and asking how we can fix health care, you've instead used a quote from him to launch the most unoriginal attack in the GOP playbook: Blaming Clinton for everything.

Here are the links I find t... (Below threshold)

Here are the links I find to the 18,000 number:

American Health Care Reform (advocacy for National Health Insurance) -- uses the 18,000 number without attribution or back-up.

Workers World Party

The New Standard, an "independent" on-line news facility (without attribution or source).

"Institute of Medicine," a Congressionally chartered but independent organization that has been advocating for Universal Health Insurance since 1970.

As best I can determine, the estimate starts with them -- as they are cited by several press stories as the source of the claim. Its reports are only available for a fee.

IOM is a part of the National Academy of Sciences.

A postscript: If the 18,000... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

A postscript: If the 18,000 figure is correct which righties here give a shit? I can hear a pin drop.

I suspect the 18,000 is a n... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

I suspect the 18,000 is a number someone snatched from their a**. Could it be 18,001 or 17,999? Someone ask the smart lawyer where he got the number and i'll all be settled.
People without health care simply check into the ER and use them as their primary doctor, no waiting for hours with a bunch of sick people to see a doctor. The really smart ones call 911 and we pick them up and put them to bed in the ER. No waiting at all.
Smart doctors soon reconize the 'frequent flyers' (druggies wanting a shot or prescription) and send them home immediately.

wavemaker:Thanks f... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

wavemaker:

Thanks for the links; that's very helpful. IOM is reputable source, so even without seeing the report itself, I would imagine their number is fairly accurate.

Hugh,

Must you always be such a turdmaster. Yes, this righty does give a shit. I've been w/o insure and had health issues; it's not something I'd wish upon anyone--even you.

maybe Edwards can do his fa... (Below threshold)
jp:

maybe Edwards can do his faith healing on these 18k people per year. Will he go from the 2004: "...get out of that wheelchair and walk again" promise to now having the ability to raise the dead in 2008?

This thug should be slugged for bringing up the issue in which he's been part of the problem in the past for the healthcare industry and its customers(us)

Better to be a lefty and <i... (Below threshold)

Better to be a lefty and care, but still do nothing, right, Hugh?

"...the last recession bega... (Below threshold)
sherlock:

"...the last recession began in March, 2001, that is, several weeks into the Bush presidency."

Perhaps we should make a MENTAL Health Care plan should be a higher priority?

The fact that in spite o... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

The fact that in spite of the 9/11 attacks (which cost the country billions) and two wars, and a record breaking CAT 5 hurricane that devastated the Gulf Coast, Bush was able to steer this economy to what many indicators show as stronger than even Bubba's is an amazing feat that no one wants to recognize.

Game. Set. Match. Well done Lori.

"When it comes to Clinton b... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"When it comes to Clinton botching something that if Edwards is right (and he may be) kills over five times more people every year than four years in Iraq, he gets a pass. "

It would be truly scary if anyone actually took you seriously Lorie. This is just plain wacky - beyond anything I've ever even read here, and that's saying quite a bit.

I do blame Clinton for h... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I do blame Clinton for his failures.

Hey, me too. And you're cute little attempt to law the blame for the 18,000 deaths/year (if accurate) at Hillary's feet wouldn't be fair if you didn't blame Bill as well. Of course the people you don't blame are those who have been in control of Congress since that proposal. You know, the ones who would never even entertain a proposal for universal healthcare which would provide the poor with the preventative care they can't afford? Nope, its the fault of the people who crafted a proposal, flawed as it was, that didn't succeed. Not those who would fight any proposal no matter what. And not the President who, while suggesting something about savings accounts five years ago, was excusably busy with military matters. Nope, all those deaths are Hillary's fault, and hers alone.

If the Clinton economy was so all fired perfect, best ever, then why did Clinton squander it all?

I don't recall saying that the Clinton economy was perfect, and fwiw I don't attribute that economy to Clinton's actions anyway; I happen to think presidents have little power over the economy. In any case what does that have to do with healthcare? Clinton tried in 1993, in a very poor economy, if you'll recall, to get something passed. He failed, and after the Republicans took Congress such a proposal never had a chance. What should he have done?

He left Bush to inherit an economy going into recession.

Ooh, and I bet he did it just to make Bush look bad too!

Clinton was a coward.

Agreed.

I guess I am writing more about the Dem candidates lately because the dynamics are so interesting. It will be great political theater.

I suppose it will, if you like that sort of thing. What is interesting to me is that you have such huge blinders up that you can casually dismiss that Republicans never even tried to do something about healthcare, while blaming one Democrat for 18,000 deaths/year (maybe). I'm sure you'll claim you were not blaming her for those deaths, but I ain't no spring chicken here, and you're not that clever.

It is delusional not to thi... (Below threshold)
Robert the original:

It is delusional not to think Bush inherited a recession.

The dotcom bubble, responsible for many of the great things you libs give Clinton credit for, began to break long before Bush. The fiscal quarter ending 3/1/01 was 50% Clinton and 50% Bush. 3/1/01 might have been the first time growth was negative for a quarter, but growth and almost all other economic indicators had begun to fall six months to a year earlier.

In order to blame this on Bush, you have to think that in four or five weeks Bush single handedly caused a recession.

This is nuts.

I am not a math wiz, but... (Below threshold)
sean nyc/aa:

I am not a math wiz, but figure it is almost six times more people in one year, than have died in four years in Iraq.

If almost six times more people die in one year due to a lack of health insurance than have died in almost four years of war in Iraq, ...

When it comes to Clinton botching something that if Edwards is right (and he may be) kills over five times more people every year than four years in Iraq, ...
Lorie Byrd

Lorie,
I'm pretty sure you mean Americans, unless you don't consider the Iraqis people.

"Lorie, much as you would p... (Below threshold)
Lorie:

"Lorie, much as you would prefer that your readers believe otherwise, the last recession began in March, 2001, that is, several weeks into the Bush residency.
Posted by: Herman"

You are joking, right. Bush did something in those two months that drove us into a recession. Ha! That is hilarious.

There was discussion prior to Bush taking office about the economic downturn. Remember that photo op with Bush in the Oval Office next to Clinton and some reporter asked a question that got Clinton all defensive about the economy. He did that little "it wasn't really sex" type argument going on about how we were not technically in a recession yet because it was not considered a recession until there had been two quarters of negative growth, or whatever the standard is. I remember it well. Can you imagine the cries of insensitivity had a Republican tried to do that -- as if those suffering as a result of the bad economy hurt any less because it had not technically been two consecutive quarters yet.

Spin all you want. The economic downturn was well underway during Clinton's final months. It was kinda funny really, the way it happened. Clinton won office by campaigning against the "worst economy in 50 years" (he must have slept through the Carter years) and the quarters leading up to that 1992 election showed positive economic growth, with Clinton walking into office with a vigorously recovering economy, yet he walked out handing over an economy sliding into recession.

18,000 people is a huge num... (Below threshold)

18,000 people is a huge number.

If you were to take all those people and gather them in one place, you'd be able to fit them into John Edwards' living room.

Why can't these Leftist can... (Below threshold)

Why can't these Leftist candidates introduce legislation for these plans they have when they're in congress, where that type of thing must start? Doesn't than mean they are withholding the solutions they claim to have because they want to president first? Medical care, the Iraq solution, world peace and a 10 cent cup of coffee for all who vote for them! Yeah right, they're Democrats, they have no plans, just empty campaign promises, aka lies. John Kerry has yet to share any of the plans with us that he promised if only he was elected...

Wavemaker:S... (Below threshold)
Langtry:

Wavemaker:

So John Edwards is getting his 18,000 figure, at least in part, from the WorKers World Party? That's a Trotskyist oganization that seeks to overthrow America's capitalist democracy and replace it with hardcore socialism.

Sounds to me like something Republicans can attack him on, and something that, if played properly, can end his candidacy before it's even started. Don't blame the messenger, either, people: in this case, Edwards has shot himself in the foot, and he's no one to blame but himself.

So John Edwards is getti... (Below threshold)
mantis:

So John Edwards is getting his 18,000 figure, at least in part, from the WorKers World Party?

Umm, no. Edwards gets his 18,000 figure from the Institute of Medicine (presumably), and the Worker's World Party happened to quote the same study. It is, after all, a publicly available study that was performed by part of the very well respected National Academy of Sciences. That wavemaker happened to find a webpage where WWP quotes the study has nothing to do with where the Edwards campaign got it.

However I do, in light of your comment, think you could get work on a Republican campaign somewhere.

GianniYou are one ... (Below threshold)
aRepukelican:

Gianni

You are one ignorant A..hole.

The gap that kills people i... (Below threshold)
Lee:

The gap that kills people is the group that don't meet that the low-income hurdles for Medicaid, but can't afford insurance on their own.

Health Coverage Gaps Remain

Although Medicaid and SCHIP have resulted in substantial progress in the provision of health care and long-term care coverage, large numbers of low-income Americans remain uninsured. The most recent Census data indicate that about 24 million people with incomes below 200 percent of the poverty line were uninsured in 2003. This includes approximately 18 million adults under the age of 65, as well as six million children.

Most of the low-income adults who are uninsured are not eligible for Medicaid.[28] Unless they are elderly or disabled, adults without dependent children are typically ineligible for Medicaid regardless of how poor they are. Medicaid does cover low-income parents, but the income limits for parents are typically set far below the poverty line. In the median state, a parent is eligible for Medicaid only if her income is less than 69 percent of the poverty line ($11,100 for a family of three).[29]

Most children with family incomes up to 200 percent of the poverty line are eligible for Medicaid or SCHIP. Many eligible children do not participate and remain uninsured, however, either because they are unaware of the programs (or unaware that their children are eligible) or because the enrollment and retention processes are too complicated.

Exacerbating this problem, the number of uninsured Americans is likely to rise in the years ahead. Economists at the University of California at San Diego project that the number of uninsured people could rise from 45 million in 2003 to 56 million by 2013, primarily because of continued increases in health insurance premiums and the continuing erosion of employer-based coverage.[30]



45 million + are uninsured? 18,000 sounds conservative to me. Remember these are low-income folks, and there are a lot of HIV-related illnesses among children in that group.

It looks to me as if the Christian conservatives around here are more concerned with football scores than they are uninsured children dying of AIDS.

The cost of building that 3... (Below threshold)
jo:

The cost of building that 35,000 mansion would buy an awful lot of insurance for an awful lot of people.

But wait. He's a liberal. He's entitled.

Actually mantis, I thought ... (Below threshold)

Actually mantis, I thought that Langtry was being fascetious -- you know, like you at your usual best.

I do note that IOM was creeated by Congress at a time (1970) when the Universal Health Insurance movement was initiated by the most liberal of Congressional Dems (and championed by no less a Dem icon than Tommy "the Cork" Corcoran) -- and although it has some affiliation with NAS, its website is less-than-clear on just what the connection is. What is clear is that its agenda is Universal Health coverage, so one can not be too criticized for regarding the number askance. It wouldn't be the first or last example of agenda-driven "studies."

That said, the figure does not surprise me.

How many people think that ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

How many people think that before Fox News or rightwing blogs that we would have heard of Edwards McMansion? We wouldn't have.

Again, no wonder they hate us. Long live us!

Lorie,You wrote th... (Below threshold)
Herman:

Lorie,

You wrote that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton. This is incorrect. I know that this might be hard for you and Robert the original to understand, but it is impossible for Bush to inherit that which does not yet exist!!!!! And the recession began in March 2001 (see link to NBER above).

The economy was already fai... (Below threshold)

The economy was already failing in 2000, which is why Gore could not successfully use the economy as a positive in his campaign.

Apparently no one is actually looking at the data in the NBER that they keep quoting. Employment was pretty flat in 2000, growth had slowed by July 2000, but didn't really drop until the beginning of the Recession. The other indicators, such as, Current Industrial Production peaked in Sept 2000 and dropped rapidly after that. Real Manufacturing and Trade Sales had pretty much flattened by March 2000, peaking around July 2000. The Personal income kept climbing even after the recession. Everyone knew the worm had turned and a Recession was coming, it didn't meet the formal criteria to become a recession until March 2001, but it is a part of the Legacy of the Clinton Administration. So it is correct to say Bush inherited the recession from Clinton.

"How many people think that... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"How many people think that before Fox News or rightwing blogs that we would have heard of Edwards McMansion? We wouldn't have.

Again, no wonder they hate us. Long live us!
Posted by: Jo at February 5, 2007 08:21 PM"

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Vote_Fraud
_Intimidation_Suppression_2004_Pres_Election_v2.pdf

Nor would there be BDS and the MSM 24 hr. support and coverage of the criminal democrat party of perpetual fraud.

Why don't we all demand the... (Below threshold)
dejay:

Why don't we all demand the same as illegal aliens. They do not need health insurance and it works for them. The government can't control them so how is it going to control a national health care system?

For those that seem to beli... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

For those that seem to believe that healthcare is a right, please tell me where the right to healthcare comes from ? I haven't been able to answer this.

robert the original:... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

robert the original:


To boot, cesarean sections were more frequently recommended and used, causing untold and unnecessary pain and recovery for the mothers of North Carolina.

Worse yet, there was a study published last year that found that infants born via voluntary C-sections had a significantly higher mortality rate (nearly 3x - 1.77/1000 vs 0.62/1000) than those who were vaginally delivered.

"You wrote that Bush inh... (Below threshold)

"You wrote that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton. This is incorrect. I know that this might be hard for you and Robert the original to understand, but it is impossible for Bush to inherit that which does not yet exist!!!!!"

Herman, make sure you repeat this to all the people that say that Bush 'inherited surpluses as far as the eye could see' from Clinton.

Whats preventing people ... (Below threshold)
Fordrill:

Whats preventing people from going out and purchasing their own coverage? Ahh, they were probably slacking off and partying all through school, and now that they are adult losers w/ job skills that are barely desirable, they cant afford it after they get their bag of dope, beers, and lotto tickets??

Real trashbag of a human being, this guy. Real tough guy, aren't you, Gianni? So cool and tough when you wrap up the complexities of millions of people's lives into one stereotypical compartment. Must make you feel like a real man when you look at the world in black and white.

For those who understand that things in life are not always as they seem, you appear as a pathetic little miscreant.

People with your limited thinking, prejudices and indifference deserve to get an ass kicking so bad it puts you in the hospital and exhausts all your health coverage. Then maybe you can look outside of your little simpleminded box- but I doubt it. You're not that smart.

"Real trashbag of a human... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"Real trashbag of a human beings"

That is what you and the Criminal Democrats are. A pack of UnAmerican frauds fiending for power because that is the only thing in life that will make the hatefull intollernat POS's feel good. The Power to order around and belittle people that are better than them.

"People with your/"their" limited thinking, prejudices and indifference deserve to get an ass kicking so bad it puts "them" in the hospital and exhausts all your"their" health coverage. Then maybe you/"they" can look outside of your little simpleminded box- but I doubt it. You "and they"are not that smart." Just fucking hateful arrogant jackoffs.

Real trashbag of a human being, real tough guy, aren't you comitting fraud like like the rats and posting your sexual prefrences under my name like a coward punk ass that you are.

"For those who understand that things in life are not always as they seem"

Like the democrat party of criminal frauds? I see that clear as day and so would everyone else who took the time or gave a shit and put their Country before their lying democrat party.

You just can't accept the fact that things are sometimes that simple as being black and white. You would rather distort and complicate matters as much as possible because you have no desire to fix anything. Democrats didn't like being irrelevant as they watched themselves become just that and hated to watch George W Bush in their spotlight. They were crazed and mad with jealously that President Bush was doing what they incompetantly neglected to do , their basic resposibility of protecting our Country. Their priority was to make themselves feel good and deceive the American Public to keep their Power and they failed and were kicked the fuck out and wined and cried like stuck pigs. They could not take it anymore and escalated their smear campaign against PRESIDENT BUSH 24/7 AND THEIR MEDIA WAS 100% LOCK STEP.

You are not capable of taking personal responsibility for yourself for whatever reason whether your just too stupid , lazy or a criminal POS who thinks he is just entitled to receive what ever he wants just because it's easier than actually working for it. You are a miserable loser and will always be one. Your misery is not wanted here , take it elsewhere.

After reading these blogs f... (Below threshold)
suhnami:

After reading these blogs for some time I've noticed a few things:

1) All television media that isn't Fox news is liberal trash.
2) When asked for a source that supports a liberal claim, ANY source cited by a liberal is a liberal trash site and therefore unreliable.
3) 9/11, the deficit, health care problems were Clintons' faults because he disregarded everything so he could get head.
4) Liberals hate their own country and want to have OBL over for cake and gay sex. (OK the OBL part was made up.... or was it?)

Yup, I'm making sweeping generalizations, since I've seen it done here over and over again (Haha, people can't afford to pay their own health care because they blew their dough on pot and beer!!! *slaps knee* ).

Seems these arguments are pointless unless the facts can be agreed upon. Is there a site for information where everyone can agree before launching into these go nowhere tirades? Otherwise you are all going to have heart attacks fueled by blood that could boil pasta. Then you'll need to go to the hospital, where the Clinton's health care plans will not take care of you.

Looks like Rob's still not ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Looks like Rob's still not taking the election results very well.

Maybe it's time to up your dosage, Robby.

And maybe it's time for you... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

And maybe it's time for you to get off your meth "mantis".

You just can't accept th... (Below threshold)
Fordrill:

You just can't accept the fact that things are sometimes that simple as being black and white. You would rather distort and complicate matters as much as possible because you have no desire to fix anything.

First of all, "Rob", most of your post is inarticulate and confusing. Whatever your point is, is lost on me and very likely anyone else reading your crazy rant.

As far as the issue at hand - the reason I posted before - yes, Gianni is a pretty foul excuse for a human being if he has no compassion for others worse off than himself. And it's so very easy to push all the complexities of the world into an easy to manage little box where you can paint everyone with the same brush.

And if you do the same thing, or anyone else for that matter, than they/you deserve as much compassion in your life as a cockroach.

Personally, I think Gianni is just grandstanding and trying to get a rise out of this audience. If he is truly as callous as he claims to be, I feel sad for him.

And no, Rob, the world is not black and white. It is for imbeciles, and for those who don't want responsibility, and others who live fearful little lives and don't want to know that simple solutions don't always work.

And yes, myself and others do want to fix what's wrong, but we're smart enough to know that simple slogans like "stay the course" and "no child left behind" are exactly what they are - slogans with simple b/w approaches that don't stand up to the varying shades of complexity that makes up this world. Do I have the answers myself? Maybe a few if I sat down and thought about it I might have a few. Maybe not. But I can tell you this - the real answer to anything isn't the big idea but how its executed.

But I don't expect much from people like you. You're hatred and simplemindedness speak volumes - and it goes beyond politics.

18,000??Why thats ... (Below threshold)
914:

18,000??

Why thats barely enough to..?to..? Take care of Edwards yardwork!

1) "W" set up a huge increa... (Below threshold)
epador:

1) "W" set up a huge increase in funding for Federally Qualified Health Centers that expires Dec 2007. The centers had been languishing during Clinton's reign. The FQHC's supply health care to poor uninsured and under-insured in both rural and urban settings.

2) Now that the Dem's are in power, there is a big question as to whether funding will be cut.

3) Edwards numbers are picked out of context from published studies, but they could easily be much higher. The lack of sufficient mental health coverage for all Americans likely supports the high death rate from drug and alcohol-related accidents and toxicities, as well as the suicide and homicide rates. And don't even get me started about the obesity epidemic.

4) The amount of money spent on NFL-related activities, advertising during the Super Bowl, etc. might have saved many of the lives lost due to insufficient medical care.




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