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The Stature Gap

Dan at Gay Patriot reminded me of something I had forgotten, the first debate between George W. Bush and John Kerry, and he draws some lessons from that match up that he then applies to the 2008 candidates.

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Comments (37)

Damn! Bush or Kerry: you fi... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Damn! Bush or Kerry: you finally GOT me, Lorie! Poo poo or Ca ca? That IS the question! Or WAS...Anyway, Gay Patriot is unreadable. Must be "butch"! (BTW, What happened to Pajamas Media? I never liked the Likudness of the PJ Schlemiels, but it used to be laid out well. Now it's a mess. Like their just waiting to die.) Back to topic: when I remember the Bush-Kerry Bones Reunion and Debate, I think of this: http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index_np.html As they say: No honor among thieves!

For the uninitiated: bryan... (Below threshold)

For the uninitiated: bryanD is doing his "performance art" conception of what it must be like to forget to take your anti-psychotic drug prescription.

Riveting. I laughed, I cried, it became a part of me. Two thumbs down, but one middle finger up.

Jim Addison, If you can mai... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Jim Addison, If you can maintain that gallop for a thousand words, you MIGHT have a future in writing!

I can't decide what I'm loo... (Below threshold)

I can't decide what I'm looking forward to most, watching Shrillery debate Giuliani or watching Obama trying to stay on the same stage as John McCain or Duncan Hunter in the VP debate.

Giuliani/Hunter '08!

Giuliani/Hunter '08!... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Giuliani/Hunter '08!

Sounds good to me Bill. There isn't even a single Democrat remotely qualified to be President. They fail the basic requirements ...BEING AMERICAN.

Geez, BryanD, thanks for th... (Below threshold)

Geez, BryanD, thanks for the flashback.

I remember that photo, too. I also remember people found other photos of Bush with the same bulge, in other settings -- most notably while sitting in the cab of a pickup truck while wearing a t-shirt. That led most reasonable people to conclude that it was probably a type of body armor. Because if it was a radio of some sort, why didn't they just give it a couple of inches more and let it rest in the hollow of his back, where it would be far less prominent?

But since you brought up that debate... wasn't that one where John Kerry strolled up to the podium, took a set of notes out of his pocket, and put them on the lectern -- in flagrant violation of the debate rules, which forbade notes, blank paper, or even a pen -- when he began?

Yes, I believe it was.

Thanks for this little trip down memory lane, BryanD. Now that we've gotten your little diversion resolved, will you actually address the ISSUE for once, or will you find more of your poo to fling?

You really need to find a new schtick, BryanD. "Quick, change the subject!" works well until your audience outgrows it.

J.

Right on,Jay Tea !... (Below threshold)
Ed:

Right on,Jay Tea !

JT, you cannot possibly exp... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

JT, you cannot possibly expect BryanD to actually discuss the post? He has no debate or idea's. Just smears and hate. ww

It will be interesting how ... (Below threshold)
Brian The Adequate:

It will be interesting how the debates play out if the candidate is female considering how much the visual image means to the perception of who won.

Those who listened to the Nixon/Kennedy debate on the radio overwhelmingly thought Nixon had cleaned Kennedy's clock. Of course the TV audience was 180 degrees opposite.

Did Bush 41 and Ferraro have a VP debate during the 1984 campaign?

JT: Thanks for spanking the... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

JT: Thanks for spanking the troll; that one will leave a mark.

Right on Jay Tea,K... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Right on Jay Tea,

Keep making fools of people like bryanD

(cue "That's Entertainment" theme)

Ah, yes, do you remember th... (Below threshold)
Herman:

Ah, yes, do you remember that first debate: Kerry annihilating The Chimp, The Chimp coming off as the idiot that he is (poor guy, suffering from premature senility)? One of the more memorable statements of Kerry's from that debate: "He [Bushie] misled the American people when he said we'd go to war as a last resort. We did not go as a last resort." Kerry would go on to win the next two debates, the third debate featuring Bush's attempt to trick the American people (once again), this time into believing that The Chimp had never declared he was unconcerned about Osama Been Forgotten, when he had in fact stated exactly that in March 2002. (What a liar, but as he didn't lie about an extramarital affair but only about his interest in the guy who attacked us, conservatives didn't give a damn).

Hey, it's Troll Tag Team Tw... (Below threshold)

Hey, it's Troll Tag Team Twittery! After BryanD gets his own little diversion shot to crap, Herman gallops in with his OWN side trip to Fantasy Island.

And STILL not overly germane to the topic at hand...

And I STILL defy anyone to cite noteworthy three things John Kerry has achieved in the last 30-odd years, since the end of the Viet Nam war. I'll even give you one -- his leading the investigation into the BCCI scandal -- but disqualify two others, namely successively marrying two very, VERY wealthy women and using their money to further his political career.

I wonder if "stature" could mean "standing on my wife's pile of money to make myself look more important?"

J.

Jay and company's patience ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Jay and company's patience with Bryan and Herman's incessant derailing of every topic is astounding.

I would've turfed them LONG ago.
-=Mike
...and, to keep it on topic, after Cheney wiped the floor with Edwards, it's baffling that people on the left would stand behind him at all. If Cheney can annihilate him, imagine what somebody with charisma could do..

I agree with the general pr... (Below threshold)
phxjay:

I agree with the general premise that appearance is a huge factor in presidential debates. The 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debate being the best example. Steve Forbes was arguably the best conservative canidate in 1996, but he was just too goofy looking to win.

Every minute detail of how the debates are conducted is negotiated in advance in order to minimize this issue, anyhow. I can't help but think about the snl skit with John Lovitz playing Dukakis and adjusting his height behind the podium.

I'm just not sure I'm buying this "stature gap" argument for 2008. A quick google search indicates the following:

Hillary - 5′6″

McCain - 5′7″
Giuliani - 5′9″
Romney - over 6′
Not able to find info on Gingrich, Tancredo, Brownback, Hunter.

Only 1 of the current top 3 candidates would provide a more visually commanding presence over hillary. Mccain is old and looks it. Giuliani is an impressive canidate, but he has a goofy mouth and has a bit of a lisp. Again, I just don't believe this "stature gap" is as large as you think.

The best thing the GOP could do is nominate a solid conservative that has top notch public speaking skills. Seeing someone like Newt speak after 8 years of Bush struggling at the podium would be a huge relief for myself and I'm guessing many others. Call it the oratory relief or thank the lord factor. Several times a week, Letterman does a bit called 'Great Moments in Presidential Speaches' that highlights Bush's stumbles. It is unbelievable how inadept Bush is at public speaking and it has played no small part in the difficulties his administration faces. Clearly articulating the conservative ideas and being able to sell your position is going to be the most effective way to reclaim the voters that abandoned the party in 2006.

One additional interesting note:
Prior to the first primaries, Gingrich is attempting to get both parties to agree to a new approach to debates. A weekly discussion between the two nominees from labor day until the election. Actually talking about issues and ideas more indepth and getting away from the memorized sound bites. He seems to think that hillary would agree to such an arrangement.

Herman,Would you p... (Below threshold)
TJIT:

Herman,

Would you please refresh my memory, who actually won the election?

Because the guy everybody is calling Mr. President sure does not look like Kerry.

Ah, yes, do you remember... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Ah, yes, do you remember that first debate: Kerry annihilating The Chimp..

That was memorable. What was more memorable was the left talking about it wholly from the perspective of how creepy Bush was, instead of highlighting the victory of the debate. I mean, they just can't help it for some reason.

What I found interesting about the debate were the words that could have been considered in negative context that both Kerry and Bush were trying to avoid. Kerry with "Vietnam", by saying "that war" instead, and Bush with a verbose "9/11".

Also, if you'll remember, Kerry pulled a dumbass move by plugging is website during the first debate "for more information" on the question at hand. He looked like a bigger ass than he actually is. I can just see the Dem candidate during the next debates smiling to the camera and busting out with a tiny url for everyone to visit for a complete answer to question from their partisan blogging team.

Actually, I'd better correc... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Actually, I'd better correct myself above - there were several mentions of 9/11 during debate #1, but it seemed that both guys were struggling to keep it at arms' length.

I suppose since we are talk... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I suppose since we are talking about Kerry vs Bush again it's not off topic to take a few swipes at Bush..'since the end of the Vietnam' "Kerry as opposed Bush was a successful prosecutor, the Lieutenant Governor of a medium-sized state, and then a U.S. senator during a period when Bush was letting alcoholism nearly wreck his marriage, doing something with drugs he refuses to answer questions about, and running a variety of businesses into the ground, losing his dad's friends a bundle of money in the process"...
Bush may have picked up much ground since that time, but the frat boy president seems to be over his head, and running the country into the ground. the way he did with his businesses, the record of lacklustre senator seems a fair accomplishment in comparison.

when Bush was letting al... (Below threshold)

when Bush was letting alcoholism nearly wreck his marriage, doing something with drugs he refuses to answer questions about, and running a variety of businesses into the ground, losing his dad's friends a bundle of money in the process"...

Here's another version:

Bush is a recovering alcoholic and good for him. He saved his marriage (BTW,what wrecked Kerry's first marriage, which ended in divorce?). Bush was trained and later flew complicated fighter aircraft as a National Guardsman. Bush sold his energy company for a PROFIT to Harkin Energy before he purchased a struggling major league baseball franchise, the Texas Rangers, turned the franchise around and sold it for a substantial profit. Then he won two consecutive elections for Governor of a VERY LARGE state and beat a formidable Democratic icon (Anne Richards) in one of those elections.

And then he was elected POTUS twice.

HughS: An excellent troll-s... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

HughS: An excellent troll-smack. Well done.

Well done HughS, but I don... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Well done HughS, but I don't believe Dubya ever discovered an actual oil well and as for the fact he purchased a struggling major league baseball franchise, the Texas Rangers, turned the franchise around and sold it for a substantial profit. I seem to recall he was really the frontman, and the reason they made a substantial profit is that the local taxpayer ended up funding the new stadium in Arlington in which the owners made a lot of money in a surrounding land deal..and what baseball franchise, even the losing ones haven't been sold for a large profit? (It depends on one's views,) but it is too bad Bush didn' end his career as a baseball owner. He actually would have been incontestably suitable for that. Kerry wouldn't have been in that league..and I mean it..no pun intended on Bush.

Hugh S, Why doesn't Bush fl... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Hugh S, Why doesn't Bush fly any more? Big spread, money for an entry-level Cessna (I hear, with its wing configuration, it almost flies itself ). There are links to Bush nearly killing himself and Commerce Secretary Don Evans in a Piper Cub or something years ago. Now, on- topic: I read the links earlier: how can I take seriously the Powerline puffery that three (count them:THREE!)of the candidates are "heros"??? The only heros are DEAD! Any former marine will back that up, as would Audie Murphy. I think the Bushian personality cultists are following too literally the Trotskyist impulse from whence the neoconservative movement has sprung, i.e. "Heros" of the Soviet Union.

Well done HughS, but I d... (Below threshold)

Well done HughS, but I don't believe Dubya ever discovered an actual oil well and as for the fact he purchased a struggling major league baseball franchise, the Texas Rangers, turned the franchise around and sold it for a substantial profit. I seem to recall he was really the frontman, and the reason they made a substantial profit is that the local taxpayer ended up funding the new stadium in Arlington in which the owners made a lot of money in a surrounding land deal..and what baseball franchise, even the losing ones haven't been sold for a large profit? (It depends on one's views,) but it is too bad Bush didn' end his career as a baseball owner. He actually would have been incontestably suitable for that. Kerry wouldn't have been in that league..and I mean it..no pun intended on Bush.

Steve
I've been in and around the energy business a while and I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Dubya ever discovered an actual oil well". If you're asking "As principal owner of his company did they ever discover and produce oil?" the answer is yes.

As for his being a "frontman" and then, yes, he was a front man in the same manner as George Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones and any other number of professional sports franchise "owners" are frontmen.They all have partners. Along with the tag "frontman" comes the responsibility as CEO to run the operation properly.

To your other point, were the profits from land deals or the sale of the franchise? I don't know, do you? And do you want to start a discussion of politicians profiting from publicly subsidized real estate deals?

Your comment "and what baseball franchise, even the losing ones haven't been sold for a large profit". Let me tell you about one such franchise...it was the Texas Rangers franchise Bush bought from the former owner, who lost a bundle on it. Remember Steve, history began more than twenty five years ago. The astronomical profits made in professional sports these days began with the era of big broadcast contracts made between the league and the owners. But I'm sure this is all boring you.

I agree with you that Kerry was never in Bush's league, beginning at Yale, where his grades were lower than Bush's. Kerry's lists of accomplishments simply pale next to Bush's.

Accomplishments in private sector: Bush wins

Accomplishments in public sector: Bush wins

bryanDHugh S, W... (Below threshold)

bryanD

Hugh S, Why doesn't Bush fly any more?

I don't know bryan. Maybe the Secret Service has something to do with it? Maybe he did nearly kill Evans and himself years ago. What's your point?

"OUR" heroes in the Sovit U... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

"OUR" heroes in the Sovit Union? What kind of gibberish is that?

Steve Crickmore,<i... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

Steve Crickmore,

..and the reason they made a substantial profit is that the local taxpayer ended up funding the new stadium in Arlington..

Um, those taxpayers voted on the increase - and what they increased was sales tax which financed roughly 70% of the stadium.

They have done the same thing for the Cowboys' new stadium.

"The only heros (sic) are D... (Below threshold)

"The only heros (sic) are DEAD!"

And you say Audie Murphy would agree -- Audie Murphy, the "most decorated American combat soldier of World War II who died tragically in an airplane accident in 1971."

So Audie was no hero himself.

Who are you to talk about the definition of hero, bryan?

nikkolai, <a href="http://w... (Below threshold)
bryanD:
Link where Audie Murphy cal... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Link where Audie Murphy called himself a hero. He just did his job better than others. The hero term is a teat the weinies suck, while attempting to bask in reflected light. Or those pathetic old men who wear bogus medals. Or certain nerds and wannabes who watch 24.

Steve Crickmore:I ... (Below threshold)

Steve Crickmore:

I agree Kerry has an impressive resume. Could you fill in a few bullet points with actual ACCOMPLISHMENTS?

BTW, Kerry was Michael Dukakis' Lieutenant Governor, but NOT Dukakis' pick. Kerry challenged Dukakis' choice (whose name escapes me) and beat him/her in the primary in 1982. Dukakis didn't exactly embrace Kerry, either.

J.

Hugh S, enquiring minds wan... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Hugh S, enquiring minds want to know, is all. Add a curious aversion to high-flying photo-ops (which money can't really buy, and any politician would use, ALOT), with his lying about giving underprivelidged kids flights in his jet in 1971, a year AFTER having "failed" to take a flight physical. The guy's a piece of work! Now he just pilots a Bowflex machine.

BryanHugh S, en... (Below threshold)

Bryan

Hugh S, enquiring minds want to know, is all. Add a curious aversion to high-flying photo-ops (which money can't really buy, and any politician would use, ALOT),

Well, bryan, I am inquiring. What are you talking about?

How many posts can be made ... (Below threshold)
jaku:

How many posts can be made here in one month dedicated to Kerry or Gore or Clinton?


You guys take obession to a new level, but I can understand your motivation. I guess I'd still be bitter if my party and it's failed policies got kicked to the curb by the public too, but that was several months ago.

Maybe it's time you all learned a new tune to hum.

Again I must ask, doesn't anyone want to champion Bush anymore? Or does playing the sore loser part absolve you of that responsibility?

BryanD"Link where ... (Below threshold)
Burt:

BryanD

"Link where Audie Murphy called himself a hero. He just did his job better than others. The hero term is a teat the weinies suck, while attempting to bask in reflected light. Or those pathetic old men who wear bogus medals. Or certain nerds and wannabes who watch 24."

Fascinating! Bet if you put "pathetic,bogus,Medals" into google you could come up with John Kerry

I just normally skip to the... (Below threshold)
GoldenGreg:

I just normally skip to the 3rd comment these days since the unemployeed "dissenters" seems to always get there first. Since the rest of us have to work and cannot responds during working hours, I say "eat me". And that is towards the female trolls only, thank you.
Try this on leftist site, and you will be banned forever, not to mention that you need to register first! I think I have seen only a few prozac leftist sites that do not require registration, yet alone do not boot you after you "disagree" with them. Ah... Free speech ( as long as you agree).
I commend the Wiz'ers for keeping it open this long and showing the right truly believes in free speech.

GoldenGreg. The leftist sit... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

GoldenGreg. The leftist sites that I sometimes, comment on, don't require registration either..'Political Animal, Think Progress etc. and they bang the drum as well, about the threats to free speech or infringement on the internet.




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