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Poll: Americans Should Stand Behind President Bush During Wartime

Drudge has a flash report about a poll by Public Opinion Strategies that shows the American people want to win the war in Iraq. The numbers also show that the Democrats are actually working against the will of the American people. This is startling to say the least since the Democrats and the media are so thoroughly negative in their view of Iraq that they both give the impression the American people don't support the war and want out of Iraq immediately, too. Here's the report as it's posted on Drudge. I bolded the results that I thought were particularly significant:

In the wake of the U.S. House of Representatives passing a resolution that amounts to a vote of no confidence in the Bush administration's policies in Iraq, a new national survey by Alexandria, VA-based Public Opinion Strategies (POS) shows the American people may have some different ideas from their elected leaders on this issue.


The survey was conducted nationwide February 5-7 among a bi-partisan, cross-section of 800 registered voters. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percent. The survey was commissioned by The Moriah Group, a Chattanooga-based strategic communications and public affairs firm.

The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory, said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are.

  • By a 53 percent - 46 percent margin, respondents surveyed said that Democrats are going too far, too fast in pressing the President to withdraw troops from Iraq.
  • By identical 57 percent - 41 percent margins, voters agreed with these statements: I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security and the Iraqi war is a key part of the global war on terrorism.
  • Also, by a 56 percent - 43 percent margin, voters agreed that even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in Iraq because we are at war.
  • While the survey shows voters believe (60 percent- 34 percent) that Iraq will never become a stable democracy, they still disagree that victory in Iraq (creating a young, but stable democracy and reducing the threat of terrorism at home) is no longer possible. Fifty-three percent say it's still possible, while 43 percent disagree.
  • By a wide 74 percent - 25 percent margin, voters disagree with the notion that "I don't really care what happens in Iraq after the U.S. leaves, I just want the troops brought home."
  • When asked which statement best describes their position on the Iraq War, voters are evenly divided (50 percent - 49 percent) between positions of "doing whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country," and positions that call for immediate withdrawal or a strict timetable.
  • 27 percent said "the Iraq war is the front line in the battle against terrorism and our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country."
  • 23 percent said "while I don't agree that the U.S. should be in the war, our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country."
  • 32 percent said "whether Iraq is stable or not, the U.S. should set and hold to a strict timetable for withdrawing troops."
  • 17 percent said "the U.S. should immediately withdraw its troops from Iraq."

The survey also found that voters thought it would hurt American prestige more to pull out of Iraq immediately (59 percent) than it would to stay there for the long term (35 percent). Public Opinion Strategies "scored the best win-loss record among the major polling and media firms in the 2004 election" and was named Pollster of the Year in 2002.

In spite of the media's overwhelmingly negative reporting on Iraq, the left's rooting for failure, and the characterization that Bush's war is a quagmire and we need to get out fast, the American people, according to this poll done by a respectable polling company, want to win in Iraq and believe we can win in Iraq. They apparently have not bought into the Bush is Hitler mentality as the left has hoped.

This poll also supports what conservatives have argued about the significance of the November 2006 elections: that the Democrats weren't given control of Congress because the American people agreed with their position that we should pull out of Iraq but because they were ticked off at Republicans.


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Comments (85)

A partisan pollster? What ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

A partisan pollster? What a shock. Chances we'll get to see the data?

Check out their own press release after the '06 election.

PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES MOURNS REPUBLICAN LOSSES, CONGRATULATES MANY INDIVIDUAL WINNERS IN TOUGH RACES

Sour grapes much?

Let's see an unaffiliated poll, please.

This IS a newsworthy poll, ... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

This IS a newsworthy poll, especially since it suggest a level of support for the war which doesn't exist in other polls.

AP-Ipsis:

"Would you favor or oppose sending more troops to Iraq?" 63% oppose

"Do you think the war in Iraq is a worthy cause or a hopeless cause?" 56% said hopeless

Would you favor or oppose:

"Setting a time-table for withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of next year" 63% said favor

"Putting a cap or limit on the number of U.S. troops serving in Iraq at any one time" 57% favor

CBS News Poll

"Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation with Iraq?" 68% disapprove

"How would you say things are going for the U.S. in its efforts to bring stability and order to Iraq? Would you say things are going very well, somewhat well, somewhat badly, or very badly?" 72% said somewhat or very badly

Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey

"Do you think the U.S. made the right decision or the wrong decision in using military force against Iraq?" 54% said wrong

"How well is the U.S. military effort in Iraq going . . . ?" 67% said not too well or not well at all

"Do you think the U.S. should keep military troops in Iraq until the situation has stabilized, or do you think the U.S. should bring its troops home as soon as possible?" 53% said bring them home

USA-Gallop Poll:

"In view of the developments since we first sent our troops to Iraq, do you think the United States made a mistake in sending troops to Iraq, or not?"
56% said mistake

"As you may know, the Bush Administration has begun to significantly increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to help stabilize the situation there. Do you favor or oppose this?" 60% oppose

The <a href="http://www.mor... (Below threshold)
Lee:

The unspun poll results that, for some strange reason, neither Drudge nor Kim wanted to link to... hmmm.

Screw this poll! Now, get b... (Below threshold)
nikkolai:

Screw this poll! Now, get back in there and lose in Iraq, so we can regain political power.

Sincerely,

The New Democrats
(Not Truman, JFK or FDR--the new, really feminine and wussy-assed ones)

If true, (and my anecdotal ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

If true, (and my anecdotal gut tells me it probably is), this certainly beg the questions about why the people voted as they did. What did they think they were going to get from Democrats but unmitigated defeatism? As a casual obeserver I would think the election results were a referendum on a pull-out. I've heard ruminations that people voted as they did because Democrats, by and large, campaigned as "conservatives". Well, surprise! It will be very interesting to see how the people vote come next cycle.

The "unspun" poll results s... (Below threshold)
JB:

The "unspun" poll results seem to be consistent with the, in Lee's mind, "spun" poll results.


Jeff Blogworthy--I... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Jeff Blogworthy--

It's all so confusing because your assumptions are false. Read the details of the poll (Lee posted the link.) Then, you will understand that, by and large, people oppose the war in Iraq, think it's a mistake, and want our troops brought back home.

That's why they voted for Democrats.

You may believe the voters were wrong, and that their opinions are wrong. But the polls DO reveal their opinions.

If it's any consolation, some polls say that people don't want Congress to cut off funding.

People voted as they did ir... (Below threshold)
JB:

People voted as they did irrationally, as all populism-trend votes are. They had a feeling that things "sucked", without thinking through the consequences of a Democrat-controlled Congress.

Publicius: now who's spinni... (Below threshold)
JB:

Publicius: now who's spinning?

Here's a question from the ... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Here's a question from the poll that you find so convincing:

"13. Republicans in Congress have gone too far in their criticism of the war and the President."

Is this:

1. an opinion disguised as a question?
2. so absurdly leading, one wonders how it can pass for a poll?
3. putting is politely...ummm...not the wording you would use if you actually wanted to know people's opinons?

Dang, now those darn Brits ... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

Dang, now those darn Brits are being defeatists!!

Traitors that they are, how dare they pull their troops out of Iraq without our approval.

Why those darn Brits are just like those French wussies. No backbone. When the going gets tough they decide not to suppport the troops and pull them out.

How dare they? Weren't they in it for victory? Failure and pulling out by the Brits will only encourage the terrorists and they will follow them home.


Aren't they reading the polls?


One of the results the righ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

One of the results the right didn't want you to see:

72% of the respondents either want the troops to come home or disagreed with the war.

Let's just state the obviou... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Let's just state the obvious. 99.9% of americans are sorry they voted for a democrat in 2006.

Whoooo hooo!

The most interesting thing ... (Below threshold)

The most interesting thing I think is that the last four bulletsm, when added together, say that 50% want to finish the job and leave Iraq stable while 49% don't care. Haven't the Democrats been saying forever that Bush is out of touch with the vast majority of people in this country? This poll seems to undercut that position doesn't it?

Someday, Kim and the others... (Below threshold)
jaku:

Someday, Kim and the others here might get over getting their asses kicked at the ballot box in November 06. But that day is not today. So let the sulk-fest continue.

But, lo and behold, a poll! A magnificent slanted partisan poll that helps them with their denial and projection, from Drudge no less, a harbinger of independance and fairness.

They hold this glorious poll and say, See? democrats really do hate Amurica blah blah zzzzzzzzzz

Someone needs to call the waaaaaaambulance, as there are reports of whining and crying unchecked coming from the righty blogosphere for the last three months.

Greg Tinti --The "... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Greg Tinti --

The "interesting thing" is whatever you agree with; the stuff you don't agree with isn't interesting and shouldn't be discussed in polite company.

Someone needs to call t... (Below threshold)
marc:

Someone needs to call the waaaaaaambulance, as there are reports of whining and crying unchecked coming from the righty blogosphere for the last three months. Posted by: jaku at February 20, 2007 07:30 PM

Guess that places them about 69 months behind the democrats.

Slanting poll questions lik... (Below threshold)

Slanting poll questions like this is child's play. What you do is phrase the question in a way that elicits the response you favor. Like this one:

Even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in
Iraq because we are at war.

A good poll question would simply ask:

Do you approve or disapprove of the President's handling of Iraq?

All the polls that ask that question come up with 60-70% disapproval. So how do you square that with 56% saying we should "stand behind" the President?

The answer is: you can't. The first question is a lousy way to find out if people approve the President's Iraq policy. The way to find that out is just to ask the simple "approve/disapprove" question.

This reminds me of the poll some outfit did that claimed to show that 92% of the American people opposed removing Terry Schiavo's feeding tube.

You can believe these crapola polls if you want but they don't reflect reality.

Yes, marc, that was yesterd... (Below threshold)
jaku:

Yes, marc, that was yesterday. As in, not today. Think you can keep up?

Now that the tables are turned, it's hysterical to watch the wingnuts curse and scream and pout like children who got sent to bed early.

Wingnuts really are the sorest losers on the planet, aren't they?

You can believe these cr... (Below threshold)
jaku:

You can believe these crapola polls if you want but they don't reflect reality.

But it's their solace, their comfort in times of sorrow and loss. Hell, it's all they have at this point!

They really can't stand the fact that their failed agenda gets pushed further and further out of the mainstream, so they resort to the most comical ways of dealing with it.

Look, the poll cited here i... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Look, the poll cited here is a bad poll. And the American people don't currently support the Iraq war.

That is separate from whether or not they SHOULD be supporting the war, etc. I certainly have different political opinions than this blog.

The message for the Republicans is...if you want Americans to (again) support the war, you need to convince them that our efforts in Iraq are necessary and good for the country. They should do this, because it is what they believe.

And those of us who oppose the war should try to convince more people of our beliefs...that this war is bad for the country; that it helps radicals in their recruitment of terrorists to fight the U.S. and that the real enemies, Osama bin Laden and company are getting away. And we should get the real enemies.

I think the Republicans will do better if they recognize that their position on the war isn't currently popular. If they don't believe this, then they won't do better and that's good for us war opponents politically. But I'd rather see the Republicans...who I consider to be "the loyal opposition" work from reality.

Hey jaku aka jackass it mig... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey jaku aka jackass it might be all we have but that is 100% more then you traitorus SOBs on the lrft have.

Just a quick Google search ... (Below threshold)
jaku:

Just a quick Google search of P.O.S. shows:

a national Republican political and public affairs research firm with its roots in political campaigns, its research is focused on producing information...

There you have it, completely neutral and unbiased in every way. They would never have any sort of reason to slant any information for political advantage, no sir, they shoot down the middle. Fair and balanced indeed.

Mmm-hmm.

It is tough being a Republi... (Below threshold)
Harcore Republican:

It is tough being a Republican in 2007. Somehow you have to believe concurrently that:

• Jesus loves you, but shares your deep hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
• Republicans are somehow tough on terrorism and American security when their track record clearly shows that they are absolutely not tough on terrorism, or protecting our borders and our citizens.
• It is OK to advocate illegal unconstitutional wars from afar as long as it is someone else or someone else's children who die in vain for that self serving republican cause.
• Republicans are paragons of virtue and morality when they are just the opposite.
• Republicans are a party that is of, for and by the people when republicans are only good at producing presidents who always make laws that favor large corporations, the rich and the elite of the nation at the expense of the middle and lower classes.
• Republicans are conservative while being in favor raiding our nation's treasury, squandering our nation's resources and lives while driving our nation into debt that will last for decades all for self serving unconstitutional republican gain.
• Republicans are for less government when they let their daddies bush and cheney create the largest most expensive, most wasteful government in history.
• Republicans are for fewer taxes while their daddy bush decreases taxes for the rich and elite while hiding the fact that they increased taxes on the middle and lower classes to offset their wasteful corrupt spending practices.
• Republicans are good stewards with everything when they have actually raided our national treasury and diverted to towards the rich minority in this country while wasting our nation's surplus and creating the largest national debt in history.
• It was wrong for Clinton to screw outside of marriage but OK for Bush to screw the entire USA and other countries as well.
• It is OK to say "God Bless America" in church and on bumper stickers while the blood of innocent people on your hands flows like water from a faucet on a daily basis.
• John Kerry flip flopped on Bush's illegal unconstitutional personal war against Iraq and at the same time, turn a blind eye to the fact that Bush flip flopped on every single thing he promised Americans during the 2000 presidential campaign.
• A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all humankind without regulation.
• The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our highest national priority is enforcing U. N. resolutions against Iraq and Iran.
• "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
• Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
• The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
• A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying about WMD existence to enlist support for an unprovoked, undeclared war and occupation in which thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands civilians die, is, somehow, solid "defense" policy in a "War against Terrorism".
• Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins, unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.
• If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
• A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, but then demand their cooperation and money.
• Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
• HMOs and insurance companies make profits and have the interest of the public at heart.
• Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
• Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him and Rumsfeld reassured him he was our buddy. A bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him. But, then a bad guy again when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".
• Iran was a good country when Ford and Rumsfeld and Cheney, along with General Electric, gave them our nuclear technology in the 1970's. Good guys when Cheney did business with them in the 1990's. But, then bad guys when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".
• Iraq was a good country when Reagan and Rumsfeld gave them our chemical warfare technology in the 1980's. Bad guys when we authorized their over flights to gas their own population, and then good guys, again, when Cheney did business with them. But, then bad guys when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".
• It is okay that the Bush family's "Carlisle Group" has made millions doing business with the Bin Laden family.
• Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which should include "banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet".
• The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's illegal insider Harken Oil stock trade should be sealed in his Daddy's library, and is none of our business.
• What Bill Clinton or John Kerry did in the 1960s was of vital national interest but Bush & Cheney's drug and alcohol felony arrests in the '80s are irrelevant.
• Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a "spirit of international harmony".
• Affirmative Action is wrong, but it is OK for your Daddy and his friends (here and in Saudi Arabia) to get you to graduate from Yale without studying much; to dodge the draft in the Texas Air National Guard; to bail out your company Harken Oil and the Texas Rangers; to get the Governorship of Texas and then to have the Supreme Court appoint you President of the USA.
• You are a conservative, but it is OK to spend like there is no tomorrow and run up deficits that your grandchildren will have to pay, while at the same refunding as much tax money as possible to rich people who do not need it.

Hey jaku aka jackass it ... (Below threshold)
jaku:

Hey jaku aka jackass it might be all we have but that is 100% more then you traitorus SOBs on the lrft have.


Ha ha ha, just like I expected. Can't handle the facts so you fly off the deep end. Poor widdle baby, maybe you need a nap or something?

Wow, Kim, you sure attract ... (Below threshold)
Waffle King:

Wow, Kim, you sure attract a quality fan base. I'd wager that none of the commenters here much reflect "America", but only narrow segments of it. So while they delight in popping out of their echo chambers now and then to sling mud at each other, no one in the wider world pays them much attention. These comment-thread pissing contests just aren't as entertaining as they were when the blogosphere was young.

Mmmmm... waffles.... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Mmmmm... waffles.

Exactly my point to the tro... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Exactly my point to the trolls earlier today on another thread.

Do you doubt that Americans really want to win? If you doubt that, then you really don't understand American temperament.

We're winners on balance in this country, the trolls and neurotic/disaffected notwithstanding.

I'm certainly not very happ... (Below threshold)

I'm certainly not very happy about either the Democrats or the White House in regards to the current Iraq War stategy. Neither seem to be realistically promoting the necessary political or social changes in Iraq necessary to prevent the region from sliding into widespread sectarian conflict as Sunni/Al Qaeda violence is now spreading into Iran as well, and both Saudi Arabian and Iranian interests are fueling the flow of illegal arms and Sunni and Shiite sectarian violence in Iraq as well.

The Democrats plan seems entirely based on a view that things have gone badly in Iraq, so the U.S. should leave as soon as possible regardless of the consequences for the region. This is completely contrary to even the UN philosophy of deploying peacekeeping missions in 15 world troublespots, involving more than 80,000 UN force troops. There would be 15 more wars in the world currently if the UN did not police troublespot areas such as Lebanon. Kosovo, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Cyprus, etc.

On the other hand, the White House's strategy in Iraq hardly seems than much more than a plan to stabilize Baghdad, declare some sort of a victory, then begin a withdrawal of some U.S. forces, and only continue a more limited battle with Al Qaeda elements in the Anbar province for some time. Almost like a second limited Afghanistan War strategy.

What's missing is a push from the U.S. for Iraq to solve it's sectarian problems which almost certainly will create a widening sectarian conflict situation potentially drawing in both Iran and Saudi Arabia, and could endanger the entire flow of oil from the region if a larger regional sectarian war results. Further, the lack of a U.S. push towards Iraq solving it's political and sectarian problems only leaves this nation as wholly unstable, and leaves the radical militia of proIranian cleric Muqtada al-Sadr as the most likely to seize control of the Iraqi government by armed force once the U.S. forces leave.

In the case of both the Democrats and the White House, two wrongs do not make a right.

Investor's Business Daily r... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Investor's Business Daily recently conducted a poll which indicates that 66% of Americans believe that victory in Iraq is either very important or somewhat important. The poll results, along with an editorial about the Democrat's "unparalleled perfidy", can be found here.

An excerpt from the editorial: "The party of John Murtha shamelessly seeks to defund and defeat U.S. troops on the battlefield and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The Congress the terrorists wanted is doing their bidding."

The Democrats will pay a huge price for their fecklessness.

Wow, Hardcore. You're all ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Wow, Hardcore. You're all spun up about something, hopefully you'll figure it out one day.

A number of the other poll results (troll results) posted by our resident loony left show American opinion divided on Iraq and by no means a huge tidal wave of opinion that we should get out.

Your conflating the publics irritation at the progress of the war with your desire to declare defeat and leave.

That's why idiots like you will be forever stuck in your little dark corners of the world, nervously shifting about, waiting for one of your fellow idiots (i.e. a Democrat) to lead you to the promised land, away from all this fear and self-loathing.

Well, I don't think Obama has the magic to make reality go away, and let you live in the peace of your delusions.

I've have always wondered w... (Below threshold)
drlava:

I've have always wondered what kind of nitwit would call one of those phone sex lines advertised in the back of alternative newspapers. What immense suspension of reality must occur. Who could do this??? How humiliating it must be later to have allowed yourself to sink so low.

I've figured it out. It is the exact same mindset used here by "conservative", whatever that means anymore, posters on Wizbang.
A frantic, desperate, depressing fantasy world where every core belief is ravaged by fact.

A place where the daily death toll in Iraq doesn't matter if only the libs can be proven wrong.

I guess some of you "conservatives" didn't get the memo on the death of the conservative movement. Other than being a sad, cranky, useless old joke you guys are about as relevant as a BackStreet Boys cassette.

I see that Jaku is rewritin... (Below threshold)
Jo:

I see that Jaku is rewriting history again -- as he admitted to doing a couple of weeks ago. Nobody is whining Jaku, and nobody is in therapy for any sort of post election syndrome. We handle it like adults - you guys handle it like 2 year olds.

You won one lousy election and you still whine, and you still have to come to rightwing blogs. Looks like you guys still ain't happy. I guess that's cuz America is still standing.

I wonder how public opinion... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

I wonder how public opinion will be effected by the news that Britain is puling their troops? We already know that Howard (Aussie) doesn't have the guts to send more troops, there we are, all alone holding a bag of shiite!

Did anyone notice th... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:


Did anyone notice that the polls in England now have them declaring their decision to cut and run?

Do you think this poll shows that Democrats are actually working against the will of the Brits and the decision of Tony Blair? Are Democrats responsible for the traitorous decision of Tony Blair and cutting the coalition of the willing to the coaltion of the leaving?

Does anyone think that the terrorists will follow the Brits home so that we can then leave Iraq?

Why do the Brits hate America?

If Bush claims the Brits drawdown is a sign of success then what does the escalation of American troops say?

Foolish Americans.


How is it that the Lefties ... (Below threshold)

How is it that the Lefties posting here are so ready to dismiss this poll but so willing to accept others?

Quite obvious really, this poll does not reflect what they want, pure and simple.

A good example of soporific thinking is this gem from Larkin:

A good poll question would simply ask:

Do you approve or disapprove of the President's handling of Iraq

What informed person would think this is possibly a "good poll question"?

This is actually a prime example of the kind of question being asked by the leftist polling groups because it is sure to get the following result by most people:

"Disapprove"

Ask any liberal and you will definitely get that answer but more importantly, ask any conservative and you will probably get that same answer. Bush should never have listened to the left as he prosecuted this war. He didn't use enough overwhelming force, he didn't use tactical nukes when he should have, he didn't close down the borders of Iran and Syria soon enough (because he let the UN dictate too much of the process early on) and so on. In short, he acted like a left of center President than a conservative, Reaganite.

Another example of the type of poll question that Larkin might like:

"Did Bush make mistakes in Iraq?"

Answer from everyone: "yes"

I answer that way because he waited too long to go in, he didn't use enough force, and he listened to liberal advice instead of conservatives as he proceeded.

This poll is important because it puts the lie to the Left's constant whining and cowardice. It turns out that Americans are brighter than your average Leftist as well. They don't like the war (but then who does?) but they know that American prestige is at stake so we have to win, regardless of their personal feelings.

Personally, I pay very litt... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

Personally, I pay very little attention to polls. Why? Because people pay attention to the results they like and claim bias against the results they don't like. I see that Publicus, etc, have not let me down on that view.

Hardcore - about your epistle.

Since you apparently copied it - talking point by talking point - from somewhere, could you provide a link? I have no problem with an opinion piece, but I do think the person who actually wrote it should get the credit.

Funny that tonight was the ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Funny that tonight was the annual class (we are designated to pick up the pieces after the attack) on terrorism and terrorists. Anyone know what classifies anyone as a terrorists? Look at Murtha, Peeeloshi and Shrillary and you have a 100% classic terrorists group. No hype, a fact, they fit the official description to a 'T'. Add the fact that they are all elected to represent the people IAW the constitution and the fact they are violating the constitution on a daily basis in their quest for individual power. They are selling their soul and the freedom of everyone in the country and the dhimmi sheep follow them along to the slaughter.
Now we know that this country is in deep sh** for years to come, if it survives as a country. The survey indicates more and more are waking up but there is a large group that would stand and watch their family slaughtered by the terrorist then walk around the corner and preach support for the terrorist enabling dhimmi's in congress. Several that fit that catagory are trolls on this site.

O.V. -- Thank you for that.... (Below threshold)

O.V. -- Thank you for that. I was wondering myself.

I found the formatting made... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I found the formatting made it difficult to read -- here it is again.
----------------

It is tough being a Republican in 2007. Somehow you have to believe concurrently that:

• Jesus loves you, but shares your deep hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

• Republicans are somehow tough on terrorism and American security when their track record clearly shows that they are absolutely not tough on terrorism, or protecting our borders and our citizens.

• It is OK to advocate illegal unconstitutional wars from afar as long as it is someone else or someone else's children who die in vain for that self serving republican cause.

• Republicans are paragons of virtue and morality when they are just the opposite.

• Republicans are a party that is of, for and by the people when republicans are only good at producing presidents who always make laws that favor large corporations, the rich and the elite of the nation at the expense of the middle and lower classes.

• Republicans are conservative while being in favor raiding our nation's treasury, squandering our nation's resources and lives while driving our nation into debt that will last for decades all for self serving unconstitutional republican gain.

• Republicans are for less government when they let their daddies bush and cheney create the largest most expensive, most wasteful government in history.

• Republicans are for fewer taxes while their daddy bush decreases taxes for the rich and elite while hiding the fact that they increased taxes on the middle and lower classes to offset their wasteful corrupt spending practices.

• Republicans are good stewards with everything when they have actually raided our national treasury and diverted to towards the rich minority in this country while wasting our nation's surplus and creating the largest national debt in history.

• It was wrong for Clinton to screw outside of marriage but OK for Bush to screw the entire USA and other countries as well.

• It is OK to say "God Bless America" in church and on bumper stickers while the blood of innocent people on your hands flows like water from a faucet on a daily basis.

• John Kerry flip flopped on Bush's illegal unconstitutional personal war against Iraq and at the same time, turn a blind eye to the fact that Bush flip flopped on every single thing he promised Americans during the 2000 presidential campaign.

• A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all humankind without regulation.

• The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our highest national priority is enforcing U. N. resolutions against Iraq and Iran.

• "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

• Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

• The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

• A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying about WMD existence to enlist support for an unprovoked, undeclared war and occupation in which thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands civilians die, is, somehow, solid "defense" policy in a "War against Terrorism".

• Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins, unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

• If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

• A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, but then demand their cooperation and money.

• Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

• HMOs and insurance companies make profits and have the interest of the public at heart.

• Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

• Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him and Rumsfeld reassured him he was our buddy. A bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him. But, then a bad guy again when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".

• Iran was a good country when Ford and Rumsfeld and Cheney, along with General Electric, gave them our nuclear technology in the 1970's. Good guys when Cheney did business with them in the 1990's. But, then bad guys when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".

• Iraq was a good country when Reagan and Rumsfeld gave them our chemical warfare technology in the 1980's. Bad guys when we authorized their over flights to gas their own population, and then good guys, again, when Cheney did business with them. But, then bad guys when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the "war president".

• It is okay that the Bush family's "Carlisle Group" has made millions doing business with the Bin Laden family.

• Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which should include "banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet".

• The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's illegal insider Harken Oil stock trade should be sealed in his Daddy's library, and is none of our business.

• What Bill Clinton or John Kerry did in the 1960s was of vital national interest but Bush & Cheney's drug and alcohol felony arrests in the '80s are irrelevant.

• Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a "spirit of international harmony".

• Affirmative Action is wrong, but it is OK for your Daddy and his friends (here and in Saudi Arabia) to get you to graduate from Yale without studying much; to dodge the draft in the Texas Air National Guard; to bail out your company Harken Oil and the Texas Rangers; to get the Governorship of Texas and then to have the Supreme Court appoint you President of the USA.

• You are a conservative, but it is OK to spend like there is no tomorrow and run up deficits that your grandchildren will have to pay, while at the same refunding as much tax money as possible to rich people who do not need it.

jaka aka jackass glad you k... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

jaka aka jackass glad you knew who you are. Nice response. It shows just how "smart" you are.

I agree with what OhioVoter... (Below threshold)
ryan a.:

I agree with what OhioVoter says about polls; I don't pay very much attention to them. They can be useful, but I sure as hell don't use them as a basis for forming opinions. If you take a few stats classes, you get an understanding of how ALL POLLS can be easily mismanaged/misused.

It's also critical to take note of the margins of error, and understand what they mean. For example, in the first set of percentages, if you take the margins of error into consideration they mean that:

By a (49.5-56.5) percent - (42.5-49.5) percent margin, respondents surveyed said that Democrats are going too far, too fast in pressing the President to withdraw troops from Iraq.

What that means, of course, is that the poll is saying that anywhere between 49.5 percent and 56.5 percent of people agreed with that statement. At the lower end of that percentage there is a possibility of a dead tie...49.5 to 49.5 percent. That's the way stats work. So that particular example is saying that the subjects are basically split.

For the most part, this poll isn't showing anything all that remarkable...it seems to be saying that Americans are pretty well divided. And yes, the questions are somewhat leading people to certain answers. And yes, it IS problematic when the pollster has political affiliations. That's called a conflict of interests. But then, I'm sure that's a pretty common occurence, since few people are free of an agenda.

And about the title of this post, and what Americans "should" do. If Americans disagree with what the president is doing, then they should speak their minds. By no means are American people forced to agree with policies, or go along with what they do not believe in. Supposedly, this whole American project is about freedom of speech, freedom of choice, and honoring one's beliefs.

On the other hand, if other Americans agree with the president, they should by all means support him. All Americans have these rights, and should be speaking their minds about what they think regarding the current war.

I get really tired of ANYONE who tries to silence opposition...either by hate speech or by threatening treason. It's bullshit.

Told you "pucker puss" (lee... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Told you "pucker puss" (lee lee) (resident turd polisher) (resident moron) had a "ditto" key on his keyboard. Best discription of him(or her)self I have seen yet. Damn p'p' be a little easier on yourself. We know you are an asshole but that big of one!!!

Scrapiron:What is ... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Scrapiron:

What is your definition of a terrorist? I would be interested to hear that, since it's a fairly vague term which is thrown around all the time by all sides.

What informed person wou... (Below threshold)

What informed person would think this is possibly a "good poll question"?

Gee, I don't know. Just about every polling organization in the country that asks a question concerning Presidential or Congressional job approval (including the one that is the subject of this post which asks: "Do you approve or disapprove of the job that George W. Bush is doing as President?").

But I guess they're all just idiots right Beeble? You probably think they should be asking:

* Do you think President Bush sucks at his job?
or
* Do you think Congress is doing a fantastic job?

I guess you would argue that these types of questions would be better than a simple approve/disapprove question?

Another example of the type of poll question that Larkin might like: "Did Bush make mistakes in Iraq?"

Wrong, because the question itself implies that there might have been mistakes. The question should be: "Do you approve or disapprove of Bush's handling of Iraq?"

This isn't rocket science. It's simple to ask a simple question to get a measure of where people are at on Iraq. It's also pretty simple to ask a cooked question to slant an answer in a predetermined direction.


jhow66:I always ap... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

jhow66:

I always appreciate your well stated analysis of politics. You must be a political scientist.

Tell me, in your expert opinion, how has the history of the middle east, specifically from the end of World War I to the present, played a role in shaping the current situation in Iraq? Do you think that the history is irrelevant? What other factors have added to this complex situation?

And finally, since you're so well spoken and wise, I would like to hear your solution for Iraq.

Thanks. And keep up the great writing.

Polls are worth as much as ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Polls are worth as much as p'p' is--nothing.

jhow66:Polls ar... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

jhow66:

Polls are worth as much as p'p' is--nothing.

Translated, I think this means that you find polls useless, and you disagree with Lee. Right?

Advice: in debate or argument, it's best to attack an opponent's argument, rather than attack the person. So, if you disagree with something that Lee says or does, provide counter arguments to refute him.

If you just attack the person, it comes across looking as if you cannot make a good argument to defend your position. However, I know that's not the case.

Must be some bad news fo... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Must be some bad news for the Party of Bed Wetters cause they are running around here giving each other wedgies.

Your Criminal Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud is getting punked and served with facts and you cry babies JUST CAN'T HANDLE IT! More people than you wish to admit are just plain getting sick of you lying frauds, espesially the ones who now regret having voted for the RATS.

He always get like this whe... (Below threshold)
Lee:

He always get like this when he stays up late, ryan.

He's probably sitting in his desk as usual. His open bathrobe revealing his urine-soaked underwear. A pile of beer cans at his feet -- slumped over his keyboard -- snoring away. Every once in a while he'll sit up with start, drool dripping from his chin, and snort "p p - lee lee, you bastard!" then his head will fall back onto the desk with a thud.

Remember to take those meds, jhow!

Rob:So I take it y... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Rob:

So I take it you're a Republican. Fiscal conservative? Social? Or both??

Your Criminal Democrat P... (Below threshold)

Your Criminal Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud is getting punked and served with facts and you cry babies JUST CAN'T HANDLE IT!

Hardly Robbie. One slanted poll won't change the election results of November 2006. The Congress is the voice of the people in our form of government and that is bad news for those of you who want to see our troops endlessly embroiled in this nation building fiasco in Iraq.

Just the facts: <p... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Just the facts:

I'm registered democratic near 20yrs
Voted straight Democrat until Nov 2 ,2004
YES,
I VOTED FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W BUSH , REPUBLICAN , FOR THE FIRST TIME AND I WOULD DO IT AGAIN.

Rob:So you have ha... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Rob:

So you have had a change of heart, apparently. So did you support Clinton in the 90's? Or were you against him?

Why the change?

Larkin:The Cong... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Larkin:

The Congress is the voice of the people in our form of government and that is bad news for those of you who want to see our troops endlessly embroiled in this nation building fiasco in Iraq.

I have my doubts about whether or not they are the so-called "voice of the people." I think that most people aren't even paying attention. They're all watching the ESPN, Survivor, and worrying about whether or not Barry Bonds did steroids.

Now, those are some ISSUES.

If Congress was the voice of the people, they would be calling sessions to ratify the "more beer and TV" ammendment.

That was pessimistic, wasn't it?

Re: Hardcore...excuse me: "... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Re: Hardcore...excuse me: "Harcore" Republican's cut and paste:

The cut and paste job comes from someplace called

www.lovenstein.org/tough/

Whatever the hell that is.

"One slanted ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"One slanted poll won't change the election results of November 2006."

Never can tell but one thing is for certain and you unwittingly prove this point: It took a slew of slanted and bogus polls along with 24/7 democrat Media election fraud plus the shameless recruitment of 9 candidates with Military background who pretended to more conservative than the Republicans. Democrats ran on nothing but hating Bush and just mumbled incoherantly their patented talking points then resumed their Hating Bush.

Democrats have no desire to protect My Country , they can't even protect their own people in New Orleans . Blanco and Nagin are resposible for over 1,000 deaths. Democrats being in the Majority having ran on nothing? chalk it up as nothing but more "ILL GOTTEN GAINS" for the party of criminal frauds.

Rob:Democrats r... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Rob:

Democrats ran on nothing but hating Bush and just mumbled incoherantly their patented talking points then resumed their Hating Bush.

I can understand that point. The whole "anything but Bush" platform was, and is, pretty damn weak.

So you think that Democrats have no desire to protect "your" country, but that Republicans do? What's the difference, in your opinion. Personally, I have a hard time telling the difference in many cases.

It seems like your basic gripe is that the Dems don't really have a message. I tend to agree, and I think that they don't offer many strong alternatives in many cases. Oftentimes, they are simply reacting to Republicans as opposed to taking charge, leading, or coming up with ideas.

But then, I can't say that I am all that impressed with Republican leadership either.

One more question: why do you keep referring to Democrats as criminals and frauds?

Rob:Democrats r... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Rob:

Democrats ran on nothing but hating Bush and just mumbled incoherantly their patented talking points then resumed their Hating Bush.

I can understand that point. The whole "anything but Bush" platform was, and is, pretty damn weak.

So you think that Democrats have no desire to protect "your" country, but that Republicans do? What's the difference, in your opinion. Personally, I have a hard time telling the difference in many cases.

It seems like your basic gripe is that the Dems don't really have a message. I tend to agree, and I think that they don't offer many strong alternatives in many cases. Oftentimes, they are simply reacting to Republicans as opposed to taking charge, leading, or coming up with ideas.

But then, I can't say that I am all that impressed with Republican leadership either.

One more question: why do you keep referring to Democrats as criminals and frauds?

This all looks like one big... (Below threshold)
epador:

This all looks like one big bad Polish joke to me. And we all know that's Pollitically Incorrect these days.

Was this a North or South Poll?

Magnetic or Geographic Poll?

I wouldn't debate that point with a Ten Point Poll.

Don't be such a Pollyawnna.

Was Clinton a great Pollident or what?

Perhaps none of us should pay attention to Kim's [or anyone else's] Poll Dancing. Unless you're willing to stuff a tip somewhere near to naughty.

Nice to see that I still ca... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Nice to see that I still can get under your skin "pucker puss" (lee lee) (resident turd polisher) (resident moron). Would be nice if you could come up with something better to say as that is old hat. Oh I forgot that you have a "ditto" key. And I am still taking my meds(the ones you help pay for)

ryan a --I will leave that up to you intellectual nerds. Could care less what you know it alls print as after all is said and done it makes as much differance as pissing in the ocean. So post away and I will still have my fun laughing at you and your kind. I can just see old p'p's face when he can't stand it any more and post one of his "old man" rants. So don't worry about something you can't control just roll with the rants and laugh.

jhow66:Could ca... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

jhow66:

Could care less what you know it alls print as after all is said and done it makes as much differance as pissing in the ocean.

Hmmm. Well, I guess you can leave it up to the "intellectual nerds" if you want. I was just asking for your opinion on all this. Since you seem to disagree with Lee very strongly, I was wondering what you think overall.

Ok. Well, if none of this matters, then are you saying that you could care less about the current war, and that you don't care what the result is? Are you saying that you have no position, and that you have no preference between Republicans and Democrats?

If you don't care one way or another, then why do you even read any of this? Just bored?

Perhaps none of us shoul... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Perhaps none of us should pay attention to Kim's [or anyone else's] Poll Dancing. Unless you're willing to stuff a tip somewhere near to naughty.

ha. nice.

"So did you support Cl... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"So did you support Clinton in the 90's? Or were you against him?"

You damn right I did , and that was when I was completely ignorant of American Politics. I didn't know who my senators , house members, mayor or Governor were. I could care less working and going to school and having a girlfriend full time. I hated the news never watched it or commercials. Had no time and I didn't like the fact that Clinton was shaming our Country , I could see he was lying , who couldn't? He should have just said ya I did get a blowjob ,so fucken what? It would have been all over no big deal.I went about my own business.

And from that point the only name I recall hearing was that of Ken Star, I figured he was the next idiot who got Busted for what ever.I did not know jack shit about the 2000 election , I can't even recall the whole Bush/Gore crap in Florida and can't remember if I even voted that year.

It wasn't till I heard that voice , the voice that turned out to be of John Fraud Kerry disrespecting Our President of the United States.It was he that opened my eyes to what I clearly see as the Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud.

In other words, ryan, Rob L... (Below threshold)
Lee:

In other words, ryan, Rob LA Ca. is an idiot - and he finally found his rightful home -- in the Republican Party.

ryan a-sure I care about th... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

ryan a-sure I care about the war (son-in-law was wounded there). But what changes just because you or I write something about it? Nothing.What galls my ass is the bastards on both sides in D.C. that their only concern is to get elected again. If the war was left for me to deside there would be a lot more parking lots in Iraq. As fall as p'p' is concerned, he is just a blowhard that can't stand for someone to see him for what he is.

It wasn't till I heard t... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

It wasn't till I heard that voice , the voice that turned out to be of John Fraud Kerry disrespecting Our President of the United States.It was he that opened my eyes to what I clearly see as the Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud.

Ok, so I can tell that you're pretty angry about that election. And I won't try to argue that John Kerry was a great candidate by any means, since he wasn't all that compelling to say the least.

But what was it about him that turned you against the Democrats? It was something that he said about Bush? Why did you go from being politically apathetic to having such strong opinions?

So, now that you're not ignorant of American politics, what is it about the Republican party that you agree with, or that you feel is better?

Hey Lee...Remember... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Hey Lee...

Remember the whole thing about attacking arguments instead of the individual? Well, it's a two-way street.

Note: While I am not a Republican, I do have friends who are, and I would hardly call them stupid just because I might disagree with them on some political or philosophical grounds.

jhow66:sure I c... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

jhow66:

sure I care about the war (son-in-law was wounded there).

Sorry to hear that. I was just asking, because for a second there it sounded like you were saying that you didn't care.

But what changes just because you or I write something about it? Nothing.

Ya. I know what you mean there. In my opinion though, not enough people are concerned with it, and that's just going to allow this whole ordeal to drag on forever. Most people don't even seem to remember that this war is happening.

What galls my ass is the bastards on both sides in D.C. that their only concern is to get elected again.

I hear you there too. A lot of the talk coming out of DC does seem to be just layer after layer of political posturing and BS. I get sick of it, and I get tired of the whole process. Elections come around, and once again we have a pretty lame selection to choose from. And it seems that whoever we choose they just keep doing the same old shit.

If the war was left for me to deside there would be a lot more parking lots in Iraq.

Hmmm. Here we disagree. That's not the way that I would go with it, since I don't think that 26 or so million Iraqis should die because they live in a country that's screwed up.

But finding an actual solution over there is going to be incredibly complex, no matter who is in charge over here. What I don't want is for us to be in another long, drawn out 10 year war like Vietnam.

There is no convincing the ... (Below threshold)
Independent Conservative:

There is no convincing the democrats of anything they didnt dream up on their own (or it pays under the table really good) no matter WHO does the poll.
The democrat party is THE biggest threat to this nations security and if we are lucky it will be congress that "catches" a plane next time instead of the pentagon or NYC. At the very least I hope they are the FIRST americans to experience the life of kuffars

"One more question: why... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"One more question: why do you keep referring to Democrats as criminals and frauds?"

I been studying people all my life . I would hold down conversations with the Bus Driver in grade school from the time I stepped on and off while in grade school . I was a hyper active kid and slept an average of 5 hrs a night for a good many years. Worked at a bank for 6 years new the Majority of my customers personely and even many of their account numbers.After seeing all the different people and the trades they worked and how much they earned I could no longer stand still wearing a tie , I needed to work with my hands and did from t-bar ceiling , Carpeting , vct tile , Marble flooring , Granite Countertops , plumbing , painting , auto Body/painting landscaping and my favorite job the most unlikely , picking up satelite tv boxes , antenas , payments etc.

I went into nieghborhoods like Compton/Watts where I was coming down a ladder w/antenna where I was confronted with three huge pit bulls with like 40 pounds of chain dragging and they all just stood there and stared at me confused , I don't believe they had ever laid eyes on someone with such light shin. I was in the wrong part of town if ya know what I mean picking up antennas of roofs that weren't paid Current and one home had 7 boxes that I had to get and they weren't happy Campers. After a second visit they not only let me in to pick up the boxes ($60.oo) one gal asked me if I wanted to stay for dinner. They will no doubt have a lasting impression as did I .

I also know criminals , (Gang bangers , homeboys , thugs , thieves and scammers. Don't ask , it comes with the territory. Not to mention a few family members who work for a democrat Congressman here in Ca., another a lobbyist in New Mexico , and another city council in Arizona. And finally one Acquaintance of mine told me how his entire ex wifes family were arrested for engaging in election fraud by attending a carne asada Party for a mayor in a neighboring city where they posed as prospective home buyers , filled out paper work to show them as now being residents of that city prior to that Mayors Re-election. Yes exactly , election fraud and it was wide spread in a dozen surrounding cities. There is much more however I am boring myself at this point and I'll ask you this , with this much openness , do I sound like someone who has nothing better than get on the internet and post lies?

So what do you know of the Democrat Party Leadership? Corruption and hypocrisy?

Nah, I dont think you sound... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Nah, I dont think you sound like someone who's coming on here to make shit up. I'm just trying to ask what you think, find out where you're coming from. That's all.

I have no doubt that corruption is rampant, and to be honest that's why I don't have the greatest amount of faith in our republic as it stands right now. But...I think that a lot of people just let it slide.

What do I know of Democrat Party leadership? Well, being someone who isn't very interested in belonging to any particular party, I can't say that I know much about them beyond what I read in the news. I don't KNOW any of them, and I'm not all that impressed with any of them either.

I tend to think that corruption and hipocrisy is rampant in all politics for the most part. I certainly don't think that either the Republicans or the Democrats has a corner on the market in that category.

Quite a story Rob, and your... (Below threshold)
robert the original:

Quite a story Rob, and yours isn't the only one.

Why to listen to the trolls here, one might think that Republicans are all crooks and the Democrats are all pure as the driven snow.

And we have to forget that Hillary turned $1,000.00 into $100,000.00, by magic, while Tyson Foods lost a similar amount all through the same defrocked broker.

And if you lose key billing records that are evidence in a trial - in your personal library - until the statute of limitations runs out; and if you manufacture evidence to fire travel office staff to hire your buddies; and if you participate in scam banks, Whitewater, Casa Grande, phoney legal billing scams; and if you hire a WH security chief without a clearance who invades the private FBI files on 2000 Republicans; and if your relatives extort money for outrageous pardons; and if you make deals for votes in Jewish areas, and if advisors take a bullet for illegal campaign events you set up, and if you take advantange of a loophole to take book advance money from a party you regulate against Senate rules; and if hire thugs to threaten bimbo eruptions; and all your friends end up in jail - you become...a Presidential candidate!

It is the same with election crap, the Democrats complain like crazy but they are better than Republicans at election fraud.

Lee,"In other word... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Lee,

"In other words, ryan, Rob LA Ca. is an idiot"

No stupid , the proper terminolgy as I have stated many times before in which clearly forget is Ignorant: Unaware or uninformed.

There now you are no longer ignorant or unaware as to Rob's prior knowledge of American Politics. Class dismissed.

The poll has a biased sampl... (Below threshold)
always check the sample:

The poll has a biased sample.
Conservatives, Bush voters and Caucasians are overly sampled. Interestingly enough so are Nader voters - 2% of the sample .4% of the voters in 2004.

When someone posts AP and C... (Below threshold)

When someone posts AP and CBS polls calling this one "biased" or "spun" I just have to laugh.

And this:
Even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in
Iraq because we are at war.

A good poll question would simply ask:

Do you approve or disapprove of the President's handling of Iraq?

-----------

Larkin, you only like 'part' of the question because you disagree with the other part?

"The poll has a biased s... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"The poll has a biased sample." No surprise - Public Opinion Strategies is one of the biggest Republican polling companies. That's why no respectable newspaper would touch this poll with a ten foot pole.

Glen Bolger is one of the founders of POS. Check out this quote:

"Angry voters turn out and vote their anger. Democrats will have an easier time of getting out their vote because of their intense disapproval of the president. That means we Republicans are going to have to bring our 'A' turnout game in November."

Hey Glen, when that fails why don't you push a poll that throws cold water on Democratic efforts to bring Bush in line with the wishes of the American people?

The fact that Kim didn't reveal the bias behind this poll when she published the results is downright unethical. Extremely unethical. She's trying to herd her readers like cattle. Judging from the moo'ing above, it worked on the less intelligent among them.

Lee,Not that you h... (Below threshold)
P/ Bunyan:

Lee,

Not that you have any credibility left, but if you were honest you would admit that ALL polls have a bias. The one's that what you call "respectable newspapers" publish are biased to far left no more than this poll is biased to the right.

But you'd have to be an honest person to admit that. I don't expect that from you so just keep spinning. Most of us just find it an endless source of ammusement.

While the things jhow66 writes do sometimes make me cringe, he is dead on when calling you a "turd polisher".

"A partisan pollster? What ... (Below threshold)
AmerPun:

"A partisan pollster? What a shock. Chances we'll get to see the data?"

POS had the best win-loss record, for the 2004 election, and was named "Pollster of the Year" in 2002. I think we can consider this newsworthy.

But finding an actual so... (Below threshold)
Dan Irving:

But finding an actual solution over there is going to be incredibly complex, no matter who is in charge over here. What I don't want is for us to be in another long, drawn out 10 year war like Vietnam.

I agree Ryan though I think it would be longer than 10 yrs to make Iraq stable. And keep in mind that Vietnam stood for 2 years after the last troops left. It wasn't until we stopped supplying them with logistical and air support (which the ChiCom still provided to the NVA I might add) that North Vietnam was able to conquer the south.

Pulling out now only means we will have to go back in when Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and Turkey get involved in the kerfluffle. Why? Because it's in our best interest what with oil prices working their way back towards the $100/barrel mark. With our sheer dependency on oil we can't risk an unstable middle east. IT's both our bane and our blessing and has led to both sides making mistakes (from FDR on down).

BTW - I'd like to thank you, Ryan, for being civil. The sheer amount of vitriol coming from both sides is a little irritating. Ad homenim attacks are quickly flung in this neck of the net.

POS had the best win-los... (Below threshold)
mantis:

POS had the best win-loss record, for the 2004 election, and was named "Pollster of the Year" in 2002. I think we can consider this newsworthy.

You can if you like, but you reveal your ignorance of the polling industry. They are a partisan polling group, meaning they work specifically for candidates from one party, in this case the Republicans. When they say they had the best win/loss record in 2002, what that means is the candidates they worked for won their races (9 out of 10, to be specific). It does not mean that they predicted races accurately, or at all. The same is true for their Pollster of the Year award, which recognized that 14 of their 20 Senate and gubernatorial clients won their races in 2002. This is good for them, and all above board considering all candidates hire polling firms to work for them. But it has no predictive value.

What is important is to recognize what these pollsters do as opposed to independent groups. Pollsters working for candidates work to identify their strengths, and hide their weaknesses. During the campaign, they will invariably come up with poll results that show their candidate doing well (remember Katherine Harris' internal poll numbers? How'd she end up doing?). Their purpose is not accurately gauge public opinion or voter intentions, but rather it is to help a candidate. They are admittedly partisan and that's fine, you just can't trust their results as accurate. Hell, you can't even trust the independent, non-partisan polling firms to be accurate, but they get a lot closer than the partisan ones.

In short, it's easy to get poll results you want, it's difficult to get poll results that reflect reality, and are predictive.

They polled 800 people and ... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

They polled 800 people and that's supposed to be an accurate cross section of 300 million? I don't buy it. As I tend to disregard the other polls, I will do so with this one.

Dan Irving:Ya, I a... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Dan Irving:

Ya, I agree with you that's it's going to take longer than 10 years for things to get ironed out over there. And there really is no guarantee that they will for some time. Who knows?

I have a hard time believing that we can just go in there and create order. I just don't think that thing work that way. We can impose order, maybe, but how long will that last?

With our sheer dependency on oil we can't risk an unstable middle east. IT's both our bane and our blessing and has led to both sides making mistakes (from FDR on down).

I dont think anybody wants an unstable middle east...and that includes most of the 25 or so million people who live there, I have a feeling.

But yes, we are pretty dependent on that oil, and that's one of the main reasons we're there. We all know it. This is more about economics and strategy than it's about some ultra patriotic mission to preserve American values of freedom and democracy, in my opinion.

And man do I agree with you about the partisan vitriol that's often being thrown around. What does it accomplish? All it does is reinforce these stereotypical divisions, and it keep people from actually communicating to one another. It's something I try to avoid at all costs.

Lee, your stupid list is al... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Lee, your stupid list is all wrong. Just like you.

God, have you noticed the deficit as a % of GDP is at record lows? I suppose you missed it in Wickipedia or NYT, etc.

Congratulations, Mitchell, ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Congratulations, Mitchell, you've made even less sense than usual.

I assume you are talking about this list - which isn't mine - I just reposted it so jhow66 would have something to talk about. It was posted earlier by someone else and needed to be reformatted.

Nice hat!




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