How about a Rehab Offset? Since I don't drink or do drugs, I could sell my Rehab points to a celebrity or politician that does. For an extra bonus, I'd even be willing to attend Rehab for them. As long as it was one of the nice ones that let you wander in and out.

Purchasing 'offsets' do nothing to reduce emissions. It's completely financial (i.e. not related to pollution, but rather to money).

In the same vein....
I don't smoke, so I'm willing to sell my 'lung cancer offsets' to anyone who does smoke. Just post here and I'll let you know where to send the cash.

Or what about this: Since I seldom drink, can I sell blood alcohol content offsets to drunk drivers so they can get their BAC below the legal limit?

THE DEBATE IS OVER. GLOBAL WARMING IS HAPPENING.

You can remain part of the problem by denying it or be part of the solution by doing things to offset the damage.

As for "purchasing" offsets it's not the answer to a problem that will continue to get worse if America doesn't take the lead and start really pushing the need for carbon caps, and trades and sequestration and conservation much less alternatives for cleaner energy.

At least Gore is using his consumption I.e. jet fuel, for educating thousands of people as to the risks and the consequences of delay.

What are YOU doing personally (Lorie Byrd and others) other than trying to convert science into right wing fundie ideology opposing having people take responsibility for their waste and egregious lifestyle choices?

Why does the right wing hate for Americans to take repsonsibility for the filth, death and destruction they have unleashed on the world?

Why does the right wing hate for Americans to take repsonsibility for the filth, death and destruction they have unleashed on the world?

Let me get some of that stuff you're smoking.

Here's Uncle Zeb's prediction....

These "offsets" are going to become expected and part of our daily lives. It is going to be an environmental tax on all of us as an extra cost of fuel, airfare etc. We are now seeing the initial drumbeat for this.

This is not going away people. Get ready we, the little people, are about to be hosed again while the elite continue their lifestyle with righteous indignation for all that do not worship at the feet of Earth Mother Gaia.

cbehavoir:

THE DEBATE IS OVER. GLOBAL WARMING IS HAPPENING.

Alright. Thanks for letting us know.

It's actually a two part question.
1) Is the Earth warming ?
2) If yes, what's the cause ?

And why does the left seem so convinced that man-made global warming is occurring but thinks non-sense like 'offsets' (and their counter part Kyoto) are the answer rather than obvious solutions such as nuclear power ?

Scenario:

A highway patrol office follows Tipper and alGore down the highway, and watches as they toss food wrappers, bear cans and used Depends "undergarments" out the windows.

The officer them, but as he attempts to write them a ticket, alGore pulls out his "Litter Offset" CreditCard. This shows that alGore sends money to the State to pay for extra highway clean-up...thereby giving him the right to throw his shit wherever he wants, whenver he wants.

This is 100% analogous to his "Carbon Credits" crap...except the "litter" is emitted from his private jet and 10,000+ sq.ft. homes...versus BurgerKing wrappers!!

I don't litter. But if I DID litter, the LAST thing I would do would be to harangue others for littering!! Hypocrisy thy name is alGore!!

Civil behavior.
No, the debate is not over.
Latest comes from National Geographic, not exactly
a far right publication.
See: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

As for Gore, there may be more to his motives than meets the eye. See:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/03/al_gores_inconv.html

Is it possible that the earth warms and cools in cycles and man can do absolutly NOTHING to prevent it?

Grade school science class explained that the earth rotates on its axis and that its not a perfect rotation. The earth wobbles. The change in the planets position is what gives us our seasons. It seems to me that a slight change in the angle of the plant in relation to the sun could impact the seasonality we experience, making some periods warmer/cooler than others. If this is even a remotly plausable possibility, what in the world would carbon offsets (or any other man made 'solution") do to change this fact?

Nada.

Lowkey

civil behavior,

You mentioned in an earlier discussion that America should set a good example. What of Al Gore, should he not lead his crusade by example? you lambast the rest of us for living wasteful, egregious lifestyles...start at the top. Gore uses more energy and produces more waste in a month than you and I combined in a year. Tell me, why does he need a that energy vortex we call a mansion to educate people, unless he's educating people on how hypocritical he can be?

This offset issue is nothing more than a resurrection of the medieval Catholic church's practice of buying your family members out of purgatory and in to heaven.

For those of you who aren't afraid to think for yourself (rather than have Lorie think for you) -- here's a link to one of the carbon offset companies - Terrapass

and another -- Carbonfund.org

I forgot to mention that both of those companies are non-profit.

Any commerce in carbon offsets increases inefficiency in the delivery of energy thereby grinding the poor and embellishing the commerciants. In addition, it is morally inefficient.

Now what kind of prophet is the Gorebellied Fool?
===========================

Want the unified theory?

Carbon's origin is vulcanic, it is virtually permanently sequestered in Hydrocarbons and Carbonates by the action of the Sun and biomass. Total Insolation, the amount of energy hitting the earth from the sun is very gradually increasing, as a function of the sun, as a reactor, gradually getting stronger. Total Insolation, while gradually rising, varies around that rising curve in Cycles, and a weak one, #25, is coming. Water, particularly at the interface between condensation/evaporation, acts as a positive or negative feedback mechanism depending upon need. So in the face of a gradually strengthening sun we are kept at the cusp of glaciation by the carbon cycle and the action of the sun on the biomass.

I think I've never heard so loud,
The quiet message of a cloud.
====================================

Lee,

I already have a Terrapass, it's called a Metrocard and it gets me on the subway everyday for a month. Though instead of paying $49.95 for a year, I pay $74.00 a month.

Once you've got the unified theory you can make a judgement. In my repeatedly humbled opinion, all this carbon dioxide we're releasing as if from a shaken champagne bottle, will have little long term effect, and far less short term effect than the hysterics imagine.

Pebble bed nuclear technology. That's the future, and the Chinese are MegaKiloWattYears ahead of us, or anyone for that matter.
=============================

Global warming is a routine, cyclical event that occurs every 1500 years. And while the left does its utmost to muzzle anyone who doesn't agree (so much for freedom of speech), the fact is that there ARE many scientists who don't agree with Al Gore and his pals and their doomsday predictions. And I well remember some 35 years ago when the earth was supposed to FREEZE over completely by the year 2010! How's that coming along?

And if you want the antidote to Gore's False Religion, go to climateaudit.org, the blog of Steve McIntyre, who revealed the Piltdown Mann's Crooked Hockey Stick.
=========================================

from Hot Air's see-dubya:

"I went out and beat up some minorities this morning. But I bought some racism offsets, so it's OK."

see-dubya on February 27, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Hypocrisy Defined.

I abused a fag last night but it felt OK with the homophobic offsets humped up in my pocket.
===========================

So if an inner city Dem murders someone, is that now OK because he can offset that with having yet another child out of wedlock?

"Global warming is a routine, cyclical event that occurs every 1500 years."

At last the right is starting to acknowledge the problem exists. We no longer have to argue IF it is happening.

The question that remains is what, if anything, we should we be doing to mitigate the problem. Funding the development of alternate energy production and research thought carbon credits seems like a no brainer - it's voluntary, and it helps reduce our dependence on foreign oil. What's the problem with that?

The only reason people like Lorie are fighting this isn't because of the voluntary alternate energy funding and the reduction of our dependence on oil -- it's because Al Gore is behind it.

Severe GDS there... Look, the problem is real - let's argue about solutions, not just attack the messenger.

Lee, if it is a routine cyclical event(I don't happen to agree) why should we do anything about it at all?

Lorie, and many on the right, object to the suppression of dissent, and the irrationality by which 'carbon' decisions are made. Kyoto is massively foolish and its victims are rife and mute.
========================

g, cute, and you point out that the mechanism of indulgences can justify any sin.
=================================

How can TerraPass be non-profit if it is owned by a publically traded company GreenShift? Maybe that's why their stock is so cheap. I don't know.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GSHF.OB

Give me $1000, and I'll plant 500 trees. I promise.

Lee,

I have to admit I have a problem with the issue mostly because of who's giving it.

What happens when you as a parent tell your children not to drive drunk, then drive them to school while your drunk? What does that do to the credibility of your message?

Drinking an equal amount of coffee to alcohol while your on your way to inebriation, may water it down, but it won't cancel or balance the effect the alcohol is having on your system.

Yes, we should absolutely be looking for alternate and renewable energy sources for a myriad of reasons; not among them, in my opinion, is the danger of the world ending in the next 5 decades due to incremental warming.

"Look, the problem is real - let's argue about solutions"

First, yes global warming is real. Cycles of warming and cooling have been happening for about 4.5 billion years here on Earth.

Second, is it a problem? The neo-comms seem to think so. The reality is that most likely a lot more people will benefit from this current warming cycle than the handful that may be slightly incovenienced by it. I know it's benefited me. Before this current global warming trend stated about 15,00 years ago there was a mile of ice on top of where my house now stands.

Third, solutions? Typical leftist arogance there. Thinking thay can change the global climate. It's laughable. So far all they've come up with is socialist wealth distribution schemes (Kyoto) and "offsets" so the wealthy can buy their way out of doing anything. Typical leftists.

Despite the hysteria, it is not certain we are warming beyond the normal rebound from the Little Ice Age. Surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere are rising, possibly due to the error introduced by Urban Heat Islands, but not in the Southern Hemisphere, nor in the atmosphere or the oceans. If warming were from the greenhouse effect of a universally distributed gas, it should certainly be more uniform than just on the surface of the Northern Hemisphere.
=============

"How can TerraPass be non-profit if it is owned by a publically traded company GreenShift? "

Thanks, Michael. Looks like you're right - my bad. I looked up four companies this morning - two were non-profit and two were for-profit - and I grabbed the wrong link.

The other non-profit I meant to link to is gocarbonzero.org.

From terrapass:

Methane gas is fuel produced naturally from biomass that if not combusted greatly adds to our global warming problem. Methane is has a greenhouse effect 22 times greater than carbon dioxide.

New bumper sticker:
Save the Planet - light a fart.

(/sophomoric humor)

FACT: More Coca-Cola is consumed in New York City in the Summer than in other seasons

FACT: The murder rate in New York City is higher in the Summer than in other seasons

Inconvenient TRUTH: Coca-Cola is responsible for MURDERS in New York City!!

Where alGore when ya really need him??

Lee,

Another reason to shoot the messenger.

1. Al Gore consumes far more electricity and natural gas than the average TN homeowner.

2. Al Gore's lifestyle creates more carbons than his typical neighbor.

3. Al Gore 'buys' 'carbon credits' in a firm which he runs, that invests in 'alternative energy companies'.

It still doesn't matter if he does (3) because he still consumes more natural resources and produces more carbons...and there is no actually measurable proof that his 'investments' have offset his wasteful consumption, nor reduces carbons.

Take 20 lbs of carbons created by Gore...then have another 'GW-frendly' entity create 1 lb. That doesn't mean that the 20 lbs has been offset by the 1 lb. It means that there is 21 lbs.

Or put it another way: If Gore uses 10 kw of electricity produced from a coal-fired plant, and his wind farm produces 10 kw for his neighbor...It still means that 20 kw are being used...not that his 10kw of waste is negated by the other 10kw.

I just love this thread. The general topic has been keeping the blogosphere and comedians rolling for days now.

Way I see it, the Jolly Green Gore is hypocritical. He has been imploring us to reduce our carbon foot print, use less fuels, go greener etc while living the opposite lifestyle himself. Kind of like an evangelical preacher telling us not to sin while he has affairs and does drugs. If Jolly Green Gore was serious he could find alternate means of getting the message out without having to produce mega-tons of carbon emissions to do it. Multi-media is a wonderful thing.

Finally, why is a warming of the earth a bad thing? More C02 in the atmosphere also equals more plant life which consumes C02 and produces oxygen. Melted ice means more water vapor overall which will be held in by the green house effect resulting in additional rain. Climate has been happening on earth for thousands, millions, or billions of years (take a pick based on your belief system) and the earth still exists. For at least multiple of thousands of years man has been adjusting and adapting to these changes. Instead of trying to fight it we should embrace it and learn to live in harmony with it.