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Al Gore's Inconvenient Profit

Al Gore talks about global warming being a moral issue, but he conveniently forgets to mention that it's a profit issue for him as well. While he's preaching gloom and doom about global warming and how we must do something now to stop it, his company, Generation Investment Management, is making money when others pay GIM to invest their money in global warming fighting technology.

Anti-media makes an interesting point:

Imagine the president of General Motors flying all over the world trumpeting a new technology for transportation while he quietly buys more and more of the very stock that will dramatically increase in value through his efforts. Think anyone might be a bit upset by that? Imagine him getting an Oscar for his efforts!


This is breathtaking cynicism the likes of which has never before been seen in US politics.

Dan Riehl is commenting as well:

Gore's company, GIM was specifically established to take financial advantage of new technologies and solutions related to combating Global Warming. The Global Warming crowd has told us that just recently new science emerged confirming the alleged fact that Global Warming is man made. So, ask yourself, why is it that Gore set up his Green money machine three years ago back in 2004? Is it possible Gore knew what the science would say before it was out? And even if not, can an individual who stands to make millions from Global Warming really be trusted as an honest broker on that topic? Talk about giving the fox the keys to the hen penthouse.


Even if Global Warming did exist, in principle, what's the difference between war profiteering and this? One could justifiably argue that Gore is taking advantage of, in his opinion, a catastrophic situation to clean up - and I don't mean the environment.

And take a look at this little nugget that I found on GIM's site:


While we are still a small firm with only 23 employees, Generation is committed to reducing the energy use of operations, both direct and indirect. We do this by minimizing non-essential air travel and by managing our building operations (lighting, recycling, and procurement). We have also had conversations with suppliers about energy efficiency. For the remainder of our carbon footprint, we work with two offset providers (The Chicago Climate Exchange and the CarbonNeutral Company) to ensure our London and Washington D.C. offices are fully carbon neutral. In addition, Generation has sponsored a full energy efficiency audit for each employee's residence, including suggestions for ways they can make home energy improvements.

All the while, Gore's home in Nashville uses twice as much electricity in one month than the average home does in an entire year.


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Comments (85)

All the while, Gore's ho... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

All the while, Gore's home in Nashville uses twice as much electricity in one month than the average home does in an entire year.


Maybe because Gore still has a full time security detail to protect him from right wing nut jobs who can't debate his ideas so they send him death threats instead. His home also has offices for his staff where people work out of. Ever consider that?

And did Gore ever preach to anyone not to live in a big house?

You guys are reaching so hard in this 'gotcha' quest, it's hysterical. Like any of you would ever consider voting for him in the first place.

More manufactured, fake outrage.

Maybe because Gore still... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Maybe because Gore still has a full time security detail to protect him from right wing nut jobs who can't debate his ideas so they send him death threats instead. His home also has offices for his staff where people work out of. Ever consider that?

And did Gore ever preach to anyone not to live in a big house?

You guys are reaching so hard in this 'gotcha' quest, it's hysterical. Like any of you would ever consider voting for him in the first place.

More manufactured, fake outrage.

Nah. It just shows that people like you only care about global warming if you can slam Bush about it.
-=Mike

Thanks for not addressing a... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Thanks for not addressing any of my points, Mike.

Instead, you repeat the tired old standby about so called Bush bashing. That really is the last pathetic refuge for the wingnuts these days when they cannot properly refute an arguement.

Poor Bush, getting bashed, gosh whatever shall he do?

Bush had nothing to do with it until you mentioned him but thanks for the distraction.

How would the libtards feel... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

How would the libtards feel about 'credits' if they were gotten from Halliburton(WHo, by the way, ranks George Soros as one of its largest stockholders).

Instead, you repeat the ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Instead, you repeat the tired old standby about so called Bush bashing. That really is the last pathetic refuge for the wingnuts these days when they cannot properly refute an arguement.

Gore uses more energy than the vast majority of people. You wish to defend it saying that he has "special needs" that, apparently, nobody else needs (heck, go see what George Bush Sr. uses and compare it). He has produced a company that makes money off irrational fears that he perpetuates.

Bush had nothing to do with it until you mentioned him but thanks for the distraction.

Yup. The only time global warming is an issue to hypocrites such as yourself is when you can attack Bush about it.

When you cannot, then it is a non-issue to you.
-=Mike

Heaven forbid Gore invests ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Heaven forbid Gore invests in what he believes in?

"Imagine the president of General Motors flying all over the world trumpeting a new technology for transportation while he quietly buys more and more of the very stock that will dramatically increase in value through his efforts?"

Does the absurdity of that statement even need a reply?

Mike, Gore gets a Secret Se... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Mike, Gore gets a Secret Service detail assigned to him and his immediate family for the rest of his life, as does any ex-pres or VP. You did know that right? He didn't request it, it's the law of the land. Bush Sr has the SS detail too, as does Nancy Reagan.

You can consider that 'special needs' I suppose. And he does have offices in his home as well, hence more people are there than a nuclear family, and that means more PC's, lights, A/C, water, etc and that means more power is used. Duh.

And again, I didn't mention Bush oncehere okay, but you brought him up to try and deflect your feeble assertions. Nice try.

Now I am a hypocrite too, I guess that's the wingnut label of the week.

You guys are comedy gold here, you know that?

How would the libtards f... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

How would the libtards feel about 'credits' if they were gotten from Halliburton(WHo, by the way, ranks George Soros as one of its largest stockholders).

Well, since none of the 'credits' did come from Haliburton your arguement has sunk to the bottom of the sea. Care to try using logic next time?

Are you that bankrupt for your arguement you have to resort to hypotheticals?

Mike, Gore gets a Secret... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Mike, Gore gets a Secret Service detail assigned to him and his immediate family for the rest of his life, as does any ex-pres or VP. You did know that right? He didn't request it, it's the law of the land. Bush Sr has the SS detail too, as does Nancy Reagan.

Again, feel free to explain why it causes his usage to DWARF so many other people's. Heck, find out Bush Sr's energy usage if you wish to argue that the Secret Service detail is the reason and make the comparison.

You can consider that 'special needs' I suppose. And he does have offices in his home as well, hence more people are there than a nuclear family, and that means more PC's, lights, A/C, water, etc and that means more power is used. Duh.

Not just more power.

SEVERAL TIMES MORE POWER.

There is a dramatic difference.

Now I am a hypocrite too, I guess that's the wingnut label of the week.

No. It's a statement of fact.
-=Mike

Are you that bankrupt fo... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Are you that bankrupt for your arguement you have to resort to hypotheticals?

Such as you have done defending Gore?
-=Mike

Again, feel free to expl... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Again, feel free to explain why it causes his usage to DWARF so many other people's.

Let's try this slower, so the learning impared can follow.

Gore lives in a BIG house, because he made some $$$ in his life. In this BIG house Gore lives in are offices and quarters for 1)Security people who work 24-7-365 who monitor the premises and surrounding area 2)administrative staff for him and Tipper, who don't work round the clock but are there 40-50 hours out of the week.

So, in this BIG house Gore lives in are lots of people at all hours. Check.

Now, they can't read Wizbang blog in the dark can they, so they like to use....ding ding...electricity! Lots of it, because there are people making phone calls, and faxing, and emailing, and doing all kinds of things.

SEVERAL TIMES MORE ELECTRICITY IN FACT! (I figured you'd appreciate all caps)

So you are correct in that Gore uses more power than the average family. Amazing powers of observation you have Mike.


"Imagine the president o... (Below threshold)

"Imagine the president of General Motors flying all over the world trumpeting a new technology for transportation while he quietly buys more and more of the very stock that will dramatically increase in value through his efforts?"

Uhh...yeah...that's what is known as capitalism.

Is this Wizbang? I thought for a moment I was at Daily Kos.

First, you guys were upset that Gore has a big home. Now, you're upset that he's a capitalist.

Again, that's awfully progressive of you guys!

Wonder if the local zoning ... (Below threshold)

Wonder if the local zoning officials know about all this office use going on in a residential zone.

Oh, the laws don't apply to him?

Show me one nonsense hypoth... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Show me one nonsense hypothetical arguement like gianni used that I have posted, Mike. Show me one.

Wonder if the local zoni... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Wonder if the local zoning officials know about all this office use going on in a residential zone.

Hey maybe this can be your crusade. Why don't you take the lead, and get to the bottom of this important matter pronto!

All these experts here at Wizbang, everything from CIA experts to weather experts and now we have zoning and planning experts.

Let's try this slower, s... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Let's try this slower, so the learning impared can follow.

Gore lives in a BIG house, because he made some $$$ in his life. In this BIG house Gore lives in are offices and quarters for 1)Security people who work 24-7-365 who monitor the premises and surrounding area 2)administrative staff for him and Tipper, who don't work round the clock but are there 40-50 hours out of the week.

So, in this BIG house Gore lives in are lots of people at all hours. Check.

Now, they can't read Wizbang blog in the dark can they, so they like to use....ding ding...electricity! Lots of it, because there are people making phone calls, and faxing, and emailing, and doing all kinds of things.

SEVERAL TIMES MORE ELECTRICITY IN FACT! (I figured you'd appreciate all caps)

So you are correct in that Gore uses more power than the average family. Amazing powers of observation you have Mike.

So, are you now trying to argue that the reason Bush's ranch uses much less power than Gore's is that he does not have similar demands on him and similar sizes of groups working for him there? Is THAT your argument? That a ranch that is able to communicate with anybody at any time just as if he was in the Oval Office doesn't quite have the same energy needs as a former V.P championing junk science?

And present something besides the same hypotheticals you condemn Gianni for using.

Thanks.
-=Mike

Show me one nonsense hyp... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Show me one nonsense hypothetical arguement like gianni used that I have posted, Mike. Show me one.

Read your arguments for why Gore has so much more energy usage without any, you know, facts to back them up.
-=Mike

Read your arguments for ... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Read your arguments for why Gore has so much more energy usage without any, you know, facts to back them up.

Just as I thought, all hat no cattle. You can't find one, so you timidly resort by saying, read what you wrote.

The task was for you, Mike, to find it as you accused me of it, but since you couldn't I expected nothing less than your failed little comeback.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Just as I thought, all h... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Just as I thought, all hat no cattle. You can't find one, so you timidly resort by saying, read what you wrote.

You present hypothetical reasons without proof to support them to try and defend Gore. Don't blame me for noticing that.

The task was for you, Mike, to find it as you accused me of it, but since you couldn't I expected nothing less than your failed little comeback.

I presented them to you. If you're too dense to comprehend, that seems to be the fault of those that tried to teach you in your youth.

"Well, Gore has a big staff". No numbers as to how many people. Nor how much work they do. Nor how many PC's this allegedly large staff has. Or why he is any different than a company CEO. Or why he uses more than the current President's home.
-=Mike

Jaku, how big is Gore's det... (Below threshold)
David:

Jaku, how big is Gore's detail? In order to justify the electricity usage he would have to have a detail of about 48 people living at that house full time. By the way Gulfstream II's can't carry 50 people. At max it carries 19, but is normally it carries 12. That actually makes sense, 8 guards, wife, a administative assistant, and a friend (or two). If Gore is like Carter or Bush the first the detail would live in a separately powered home whose power bills are paid by the taxpayers.

That again begs the question. Anyway, why does someone who really cares need with a heated pool, a hot tub, and a steam shower (maybe they are for the security detail, riiiiight) I have a late friend who was worth close to a a quarter of billion bucks. He thought that heating his pool was a waste of energy. I also suspect, relatively speaking, he had a small carbon footprint (though to be honest I do not know for sure, but he didn't have a hot tub or steam shower either).

On the other hand you fail to address the main point of the post. Gore is making a great deal of money with GIM and its investments stratagies isn't souly carbon related. Just go to their ugly web site and check it out.

So, in this BIG house Gore ... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

So, in this BIG house Gore lives in are lots of people at all hours. Check.


Thats it! Of course that is why the pool is heated 24/7/365 even when Al and Tipper are out of town, hell the hired help might want to take a dip! So sorry we brought it up. Is this another one of those things that Al has directed there not to be a debate about?

This one doesn't bother me.... (Below threshold)
Strick:

This one doesn't bother me. He's just committed to the idea in the most emphatic way: he put his investment money where his mouth is.

This is one of those cases where if someone like Gore didn't back a company like this, it might not happen.

I'm far from convinced this is the right way to approach the problem or that it's more than just a way for rich liberals to buy peace with their conscience on evironmental matters, but any conservative or libertarian faulting Gore for turning to the market to address any issue may be forgetting what they stand for.

Jaku, if you were honest, y... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Jaku, if you were honest, you'd notice that a 20 times average usage is magnitude above what's demanded from having some staff and computers in your house. But your fact-free posting doesn't bear scrutiny anyway.

I run a small business with 10 people and 12 computers, including 2 servers, and our power usage is no where near the 20 multiple Gore uses.

And as a past-VP, it would be nice to think he observes the local zoning laws which I am familiar with as an attorney, by the way.

Observing legalities (and ethics, including, now business ethics) was never a strong suit of yours and your leadership under Clinton/Gore, etc.

"So, are you now trying to ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"So, are you now trying to argue that the reason Bush's ranch uses much less power than Gore's is that he does not have similar demands on him and similar sizes of groups working for him there? " mikesc

This was such a stupid statement that I am surprised no-one has jumped on this?

Miksc, how many days in the year is Bush at the ranch compared with the number of days Gore is at his primary residency?

If you want to make a valid comparison, please find out the daily electrical usage of the White House and the ranch. Now compare it to Gore's usage (primary and secondary homes).

We'll wait for your answer.

Jaku, your missing the big ... (Below threshold)
Maureen:

Jaku, your missing the big point here. Gore does not practice what he preaches. He's out their scaring the hell out of people by playing on their middle class guilt. The rest of us should be saving the world, but he's got a get out of jail free card because he bought "credit."

I personally wouldn't have a problem with Gore's energy consumption - what he does with his money is his business. But he's being a hypocrite. And people don't like hypocrites. If he were a real and true greenie, he'd live like Ed Begley Jr, in a little house with solar panels and drive an electric car or his bike. That guy might be crazy, but he certainly practices what he preaches.. And that you have to have respect for. I just can't drum up any respect for Gore if he's not even going to try.

Funny how NO ONE gav... (Below threshold)
Jaku:


Funny how NO ONE gave a shit about his house until after he won the academy award.

Like trained seals, the rightie blog in all its mouth foam were so OUTRAGED!

Did Gore ever tell anyone not to live in a big house ever?

Oh well, trying to communicate with the rabid right wing losers here is impossible, so Ill let you guys soil your cages once more and flail about someone who isnt even running for office

Try something more useful like calling Edwards a fag.

The only thing more boring ... (Below threshold)
smartguy:

The only thing more boring than this discussion is one of Gore's speeches.

Funny how NO ONE gave a ... (Below threshold)
Maureen:

Funny how NO ONE gave a shit about his house until after he won the academy award.

Thanks for proving our point. Have a nice day!

Nice tantrum, Jaku.<p... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Nice tantrum, Jaku.

Goodbye.

jku:Mike, Gore... (Below threshold)
marc:

jku:

Mike, Gore gets a Secret Service detail assigned to him and his immediate family for the rest of his life,

That has to be one of the sorriest pieces of horseshit you've ever posted jaku. And the list is long so this really stands out.

Just how much extra energy do you believe 2-5 secret service guys would use per month jaku? What percentage of that 20k a month Gore is using is placed at the feet of the secret service?

Oh wait I know. It's those new secret service mind ray weapons they have developed. Stop attackers in their tracks I hear.

Or maybe they're extra fastidious about their appearance and use their electric shavers every hour on the half hour.

You satirize yourself jaku!

One question jaku:

Records show since the release of Gore's IC movie his energy use at his home has increased, why is that?

My take is someone "out front" on this issue would have made the extra effort to ensure that didn't happen, but it has.

BTW, I tend to believe the increase is caused by the movie being run in a continuous loop in his home theater (and bathroom, pantry, garage, maids room and utility closet) and used as a masturbation aid.

But I could be wrong.

ah, yes. Gore cannot be ex... (Below threshold)
slingshot:

ah, yes. Gore cannot be excused from flying in airplanes to promote his cause, despite the fact he is famous and in a much different position, and has a much different kind of job, than the average person. should he walk everywhere, to prove his dedication to the cause? is it possible that depsite his gasoline fuel consumption, he is actually doing a great deal for the environmental cause as a result of all of his efforts?

i am glad to see you all insisting that he must behave perfectly, and "live it." it is, indeed, very important for one to practice what one preaches, and not just talk and blog about it. i mean, i see how all of you have signed up to fight in afghanistan and iraq, and have made so many personal sacrifices so that our great nation can win in the great existential clash of civilizations. what's that? you don't have to fight or do anything but talk to support these causes? oh, ok. i may be a bit confused. i thought that 101 keyboard brigade was doing its part mainly by talking. i mean, al gore, shit, he's all talk. making a movie, promoting the cause all around the globe, setting up a company to facilitate what he talks about- this is all talk. no real effort being made. not like you guys. no you guys aren't hypocrites. you are making huge sacrifices for your existential causes.

Miksc, how many days in ... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Miksc, how many days in the year is Bush at the ranch compared with the number of days Gore is at his primary residency?

Yes, when Bush is not there, it is TOTALLY empty. No security is EVER there unless Bush is there, right?
-=Mike

barneyg:miksc,... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyg:

miksc, how many days in the year is Bush at the ranch compared with the number of days Gore is at his primary residency?

You first barney. You made the challenge yet don't know yourself.

Besides, we all know Bush is on vacation at the ranch all the time right? Oh wait, that was the childish sufferers of BDS that made that charge.


BTW, I tend to believe t... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

BTW, I tend to believe the increase is caused by the movie being run in a continuous loop in his home theater (and bathroom, pantry, garage, maids room and utility closet) and used as a masturbation aid.

All these bizzare sex references I see all over the wingnut blogs, is that a result of your own pdesires, or your own inability to get laid?

What a mind to think that one up.

That has to be one of the sorriest pieces of horseshit you've ever posted jaku. And the list is long so this really stands out.

This one thread I'll admit I don't have the ammo. Like it would matter if I did but I didn't get the points across the way I wanted. No big.

If it makes you feel better, you and Rush Limpballs can stand on the street corner and shout Gore Hypocrite all you want all day long.


slingshotDidn't ta... (Below threshold)
marc:

slingshot

Didn't take someone (YOU) long to drag out the chickenhawk tripe did it?

You've just excluded yourself from any reasonable debate.

jaku: All these bizzare... (Below threshold)
marc:

jaku: All these bizzare sex references I see all over the wingnut blogs,

jealous?

Jealous as in normal sex references I mean. Not like a Marcotte-like references to Jesus and hot steamy whatever she and her ilk post.

Lets see. Scandals old and ... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Lets see. Scandals old and new brewing with the pres; a disastrous war in Iraq; the Taliban soon to come to life again in Afghanistan: Ann Coulter calling a candidate a faggot And what do the wingnuts whine and gnash their teeth about? Al Gore's electric bill. An issue originally raised by a right wing think tank hit squad headed by an ex- American Enterprise person.

Wow. I'm so incredibly under-whelmed. But then i guess we could go to another post and read the faux outrage from the wingers about how unfairly union members might be treated. Like most if you give a shit about a union member. Grover Nordquist suddenly cares about the rights of union members? That's a howler.

You cant even take a libera... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

You cant even take a liberal at his word when he says he is leaving. Sheesh. Bye bye Jaku dont let the door hit you in your methane production kit on the way out. Buy some credits for that (and some room deodorizer too.)

So Hugh is it really UH OH ... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

So Hugh is it really UH OH time to change the subject and attempt a thread hijacking here. We are starting to look as hypocritical as Gore!

Jealous as in normal sex... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

Jealous as in normal sex references I mean. Not like a Marcotte-like references to Jesus and hot steamy whatever she and her ilk post.

Care to provide a more detailed example?

You were the one that suggested something about watching a movie and spanking all day, so perhaps you need a woman, marc. or man, whatever you're into, I dont care.

Besides, we all know Bush is on vacation at the ranch all the time right?

Stolen from somewhere else:

According to an August 2003 article in the Washington Post, President Bush has spent all or part of 166 days during his presidency at his Crawford, Texas, ranch or en route. Add the time spent at or en route to the presidential retreat of Camp David and at the Bush family estate in Kennebunkport, Maine, and Bush has taken 250 days off as of August 2003. That's 27% of his presidency spent on vacation. Although to be fair, much of this time is classified as a "working vacation."

Bush isn't the first president to get away from his work. George Bush Sr. took all or part of 543 vacation days at Camp David and in Kennebunkport. Ronald Reagan spent 335 days at or en route to his Santa Barbara, California, ranch during his eight years in office. Of recent presidents, Jimmy Carter took the least days off -- only 79 days, which he usually spent at his home in Georgia. That's less than three weeks a year, which is closer to the average American's paid time off of 13 days per year.

What about Clinton? As of December 1999, President Bill Clinton had spent only 152 days on holiday during his two terms, according to CBS News.

I'm not trying to hijack an... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

I'm not trying to hijack anything. just posting a "comment" on the relative value of a fake discussion about Gore's electric bill sourced from a right wing hit squad. Get the point? Ahh, never mind it's way over your head.

Go ahead explain it to me i... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

Go ahead explain it to me in the same words that the great ands powerful Goracle explained it to you! If a pinhead like you will get, it will be easy enough for us to understand for sure.

Clinton got his rest and re... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

Clinton got his rest and relaxation and something something at the office. Not that much of a wonder given the alternative was getting next to his wife.

I love how the defense du j... (Below threshold)
Robin Goodfellow:

I love how the defense du jour of Gore's energy usage is that he lives in a big house, and big houses use a lot of energy. This is not a defense at all, it's just begging the question. If Gore's house were 100x larger but still had the same per square foot energy usage, would that be any better? If this defense is valid then these folks should have no complaints against the inefficiencies of SUVs. SUVs have lower mpg ratings because they are larger vehicles, some people have big families and lots of stuff so they need SUVs to travel around.

It's painfully obvious what the root problem is here, it's identity group politics yet again. SUVs are bad when driven by the wrong people (read: people who have the "wrong" motivations and ideologies), whereas private jets are fine when used by people with the right bona fides. It's no different than how white on black crime is always racist whereas black on white crime never is. Or how voluntary wearing of the bikini is a hideous tool of male oppression in the western world whereas forced wearing of the burka in Islamic nations is just an element of cultural flair (at least now that Bush is in office). Facts are subservient to ideology, morality is relative to group membership.

Gmax:OK. See, the ... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Gmax:

OK. See, the little thingee at the bottom where is says "Post a comment?" Ok now lets look at a definition of "comment". How about: "a remark expressing an opinion or reaction." Fair enough so far?

The lets look at this big pile of crap of the right (pun intended) - scandals, war, Coutler ( crap pun definitely intended) etc. Then, lets look at the pile of crap being discussed ad nauseam by the wingnuts - Al Gore's electric bill.

Now do you get it? I mad a "comment" about the subject of the pose; the little pile of crap as opposed to the giant pile of crap.

Whew, that tired me out.

BHy the way, I don't like Al Gore, never have never will.

P.S.I forgot my sp... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

P.S.

I forgot my spell check I was so tired. My bad.

Did you gewt any on you?, ... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

Did you gewt any on you?, cuz that rant looked pretty reflexively and uncontrolled.

Gmax:nah I didn;t ... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Gmax:

nah I didn;t spell non.

But I think even you get the splanation now. Well, probably not.

Jackoff, err, jackyou, or w... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Jackoff, err, jackyou, or whatever you call yourself,

The credits loser gore bought from himself are a sham, and he still uses 20X he power of anyone else, in just 1 home, we havent counted his private jet, other homes, etc.

Libs are hypocrites of the highest order.

If Bush used 20x the avg consumption in Crawford, and bought credits from Halliburton, tree hugging fudgepackers would be all up in arms. Since one of your own has fooled the fools once again, its not s surprise you dont get it.

Global warming myth today is no different than the global cooling myth in the 70's. Im just wondering how scientists on the take claim they can predict temperatures 50 yrs from now, when AccuWeather cant even deliver an accurate 5 day forecast?

First an attempted thread h... (Below threshold)
Gmax:

First an attempted thread highjack, then when that doesn't work attack someone's spelling ( didn't you mean typing skills but hey your liberal you might not understand the distinction ).

Can you post a few more kind words in defense of Al Gore - the guy you want us to believe you hate? Strange way of showing it.

Any one figure out how much... (Below threshold)
marc:

Any one figure out how much MORE electricity Gore would be using ig he didn't have solar panels installed? (assuming they're hooked up that is and not just for show)

I mean really, he's already at 20x above the norm WITH the solar panels.

And BTW jaku... still waiting if you can explain why Gores energy consumption went up just after his movie hit the screens.

To those who say Gore gets ... (Below threshold)
TopDog:

To those who say Gore gets a Secret Service detail--I 'm not sure about that. You might check here: http://www.secretservice.gov/protection.shtml

Note that it doesn't mention ex-VPs and since 1997, ex-presidents only get it for 10 years.

Oops... TopDog may be onto ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Oops... TopDog may be onto something!

Who started the SS meme, Gore or his staff? Who is the potential liar?

While I have not been a pol... (Below threshold)
BT:

While I have not been a political supporter of Gore and while I own a company in the climate change business, I think some of the comments are short of the facts. The issues of and business opportunities in climate change have been around for over 15 years...the science is 20+ years in the public eye. I don't get the issue that businesses set up to improve climate can't be both profitable and socially responsible. These are not mutually exclusive. Isn't this what we finally want: companies making a difference, employing people to make a difference and rewarding investors? It costs money to make money...and it requires emissions (work, travel, lighting, etc.) to reduce emissions. That Gore likely has a big house is just silly to even mention. The issue is what is he and his company doing to improve the earth? So he runs a company that hopes to improve the environment and make money doing it. OK? As a business owner in this space, it is very tough developing a business in this emerging industry of climate change: it requires a great deal of thick skin listening to folks tell you why you should be not doing this (because there is some portion of truth that doing it that exact way is slightly better...but, does not fit into the business plan) and not doing that (because they have a vested political or financial interest in the other direction) and then complaining that your making a profit...forgetting that you risked money, time and time with family to build the business that will improve the climate (at least in the eyes of your advisors). This is not a perfect world, nor is working in the climate change industry a perfect answer. Regardless of Gore's politics et al which I have typically not supported or voted for, I think we need to support folks trying to make a difference, build out a green economy and find ways we agree with them. We already have plenty on which we can disagree..and disagree with Gore on every other point he makes if you want to. Let's intentionally elect to find unity with folks who care about the next generations even thought they (and me) don't always get it perfectly right.

Of course, if you are in that set of folks that believes climate change due to humans is not real, then most of what I have said is meaningless to you.

How hilarious it is to se... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

How hilarious it is to see the desparation in defending the Criminal Democrats. President Bush actual lives a life of energy conservation at His ranch and Gore is a wastefull hypocrite and cashing in on it at the same time.

THE DEBATE IS OVER , DEMOCRATS ARE CRIMINAL FRAUDS. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. LOL

The left always talks a goo... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

The left always talks a good game, seldom do what they say though.

Has anyone yet seen a consistent 5 day congressional work week, as Madame Botox promised?

THE DEBATE IS OVER , DEM... (Below threshold)
Jaku:

THE DEBATE IS OVER , DEMOCRATS ARE CRIMINAL FRAUDS. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. LOL

That's right, Rob, every single Democrat is a criminal, meanwhile every single Republican is an angel who treads lightly.

Man did you fail out of kindergarten logic or what? Didn't go to college? now that's a LOL! Who's having a debate, you and your pet kittie?

Bob Ney, Duke Cunningham, Jack Abramoff ring a bell?

It's a good thing Al Gore h... (Below threshold)

It's a good thing Al Gore has a place like this (capitalism at its finest), but it's when he sits in his mansion (not a house) and tells everyone to live like cretins and honestly, not live like him...what a pompous aristocrat.

In all of the defenses of A... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

In all of the defenses of Al Gore's energy habits, I've asked a few questions in different places, and no one has even attempted a serious reply to the following:

If Al Gore's selective highlighting of certain scientists' claims are in fact true, that is, that we are in for a global crisis of truly catastrophic proportions, how is trading a bunch of energy credits around going to get us more than .0001% of the way to where we need to be, carbon reduction wise? I mean, it's great that some people buy credits. I do so myself, a partial amount, through a utility program, but these 3rd party carbon companies are quite unimpressive. No one as yet has contested my claim that that at best, energy trading isn't doing anything other than reducing the rate of atmospheric increase a tiny amount. Where are the real reductions going to come from?

Can anyone show me where these carbon trading companies (outside of the utility programs, which are mostly effective) are making real investments, that result in real CO2 reduction gains, proprotionate to offset all of the continuously increasing energy demand (Al Gore's and everyone elses.) Does anyone even care?

Jaku: We tend to toss our b... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Jaku: We tend to toss our bad apples in the garbage can or, in the case of the three you mentioned, into prison. You folks, OTOH, seem to celebrate and promote your crooks and perverts.

No one will read this far d... (Below threshold)

No one will read this far down but.... Al Gore was so far in the background as VP he was a non-issue. His defacto Presidential bid found him with not much more visibility. If anything, you have to give him credit for getting everyone to talk about this ad infinitum so as to keep him at the top of the media buzz. Stop talking about Al Gore and he will go away.

Main environmentalist tenet... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

Main environmentalist tenet of the problem with America, regarding environmental degradation is that America has roughly 6% of the world's population, but consumes 25% of the energy that is consumed.

Anyone want to explain why this is the case, and what we need to do about it? Is the answer that all off of us rich Americans (we're all rich, in the eyes of most of the rest of the world), buying credits so that poorer 3rd world countries will use less energy?

If not, then explain to me what the answer is. I'm all ears.

Anyone want to explain w... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Anyone want to explain why this is the case, and what we need to do about it? Is the answer that all off of us rich Americans (we're all rich, in the eyes of most of the rest of the world), buying credits so that poorer 3rd world countries will use less energy?

We produce more goods for the world and are much more productive than anybody else.
-=Mike
...In other words, we don't waste what we use as much...

Wow, I haven't laughed so h... (Below threshold)
Fact Smack:

Wow, I haven't laughed so hard reading the gives and takes of a thread in a long time. You folks crack me up.

Here are some facts you guys can go look up for yourselves.

1. Al Gore home does not; I repeat does not use 20X more energy than the average household. What the report you on the right are quoting said is that Al Gore's energy bill is 20x larger than the average bill.

2. The reason Al Gore has an energy bill 20x larger than the average household is because he elected through his energy company to pay a higher price for his energy so that he could buy power generated through green (solar and wind) technologies.

3. The report that you right wingers are quoting also does not tell us how they came about the base line number for average. In other words they won't tell, and you right wingers won't ask because you know it will make you look stupid. Not that mis-quoting a right wing hit job doesn't already.

Fact smack, really, is that... (Below threshold)
MikeSC:

Fact smack, really, is that the best you can do?
-=Mike

"Here are some facts you gu... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

"Here are some facts you guys can go look up for yourselves."

I want to look it up for myself. Can you provide a link, please?

Actually I went ahead and l... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

Actually I went ahead and looked it up for myself.

http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367

The 20x comparison is in kwh, not dollars.

Liar.

The baseline comes from DOE averages. I'll document that as well, if you care. If not, I've got better things to do.

If you've got a real argument to make, then do so.

iftheshoefits...I don't agr... (Below threshold)
BT:

iftheshoefits...I don't agree with Gore's catastrophic claims and most folks in the carbon industry don't agree with them. Many scientists don't conclude we are in that deep. Is it Hollywood or politics that drove the movie? Likely both with profit thrown as good measure. Is it right for Hollywood to incite, I'll let you decide that one on global warming, diamond smuggling, capital punishment, etc.

Carbon trading is only (emphasis added) one of the answers to the problem. Companies my company represents spent over $300M improving their carbon footprint. We have raised approx. $1B in equity/debt to invest in reducing carbon...that is for new investments. We are not alone in this approach (Natsource, etc.). This is very significant investment capital being raised to reduce carbon emissions.

But, changes still need to be made in the power, transportation, cement, refining and conservation industries to reach any real improvement.

Personal habits need to change. Now, this is no different than recycling...which we were taught as kids was good to do. Sites we support like...fightglobalwarming.com...teach kids and families how to make a significant improvement.

There is a huge effort heading in this direction: industies, associations, NGOs, politics, science, education...etc.

Carbon trading will lower the cost of emissions reductions. It is NOT the answer, it is ONE of the answers. The problem is so big, many of the answers are needed.

It is, however, not insurmountable. This is about healthy choices...and Atkins-like energy management approach..intentional, not casual. Clearly, some folks want surgury to remove and dismantle our life style. We need to modify it, not crush it.

BT,I'm in pretty c... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

BT,

I'm in pretty close agreement with your assessment, on all counts. I'm a conservative (at least by disposition, if not always politics) who happens to also work in the renewable energy business, and I'm a strong proponent of switching to clean, reneewable sources of energy.

I've been highly dubious of Global Warming rhetoric, because I think that Gore and many others have at the very least gotten way ahead of the science. The information that has come to light in the last week hasn't done anyting to help the cause in my perception.

Because I'm in the business, I'm also confronted with the limits of what wind and solar can currently offset. Solar is already totally capacity-constrained worldwide!

My admonition to my more liberal counterparts in the industry (who I know are serious, they set examples in their own lives that I can't live up to) is to be careful what you ask for, you may get it. And if the science is right regarding the claimed severity of the anthropogenic C02 situation and it really all about carbon reduction, then get ready for the nukes, 'cus their coming back big time. Think about it.

As far as Al Gore's peronal energy habits go, I'm disappointed by them, and I'm not at all interested in picking nits. I'll cut others slack because I want slack cut in your direction. On the other hand he needs to either lead by a much stronger example, or tone down his rhetoric and show a little graciousness to those not yet with the program. The proverbial 2X4 has done its work: he's accomplished phase 1 (raise awareness of the problem) but if he doesn't change his presentation, and clean up his own house (literally) he's just giving ammunition to his adversaries.

And I don't like the end result of that scenario one bit.

iftheshoefits...well said. ... (Below threshold)
BT:

iftheshoefits...well said. I think the nukes are a reality and are on their way back (good or bad). RECs and renewables are a great part of the answer and will continue to play an increasing role. The next generation will view ghg reductions with the same acceptance as we view recycling, I think. Even evangelicals seem to understand that stewardship is not political, but is their expression of faith.

Interesting what you said...I don't meet the standard of some of my friends in this space either, but my role is viewed as an industy leader because of what our company has done. I am embarrased that I fall short of what I see them doing (and I do attempt somethings), but I think (hope) my role is a balanced view of market reality and hope. If I came under the same microscope that Gore has, I would likely fail, too. I don't know of anybody that would pass that kind of attention (even the hardcores of my industry).

I would talk further about ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

I would talk further about Hugh and Jaku, but I'd have to use the term "faggot" which is politically incorrect in some quarters.

BT,Gore is going t... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

BT,

Gore is going to be under the microscope a lot more than he anticipated, I think. I hope the end result of that will steer things in a more productive direction.

The thing is, you and I both know that the real value of carbon offsets or utility green tags, is that they're a great way for a lot of people to do a little bit, because most people can't shell out the $20-35K for a roof of solar or a hybrid vehicle. It's great than Al Gore is buying credits, but he and those in Hollywood are the ones with the resources to do more. I hope he does and that he doesn't stonewall on the details of his green investment company.

iftheshoefits...agreed agai... (Below threshold)
BT:

iftheshoefits...agreed again. Offsets are more meaningful in industrial practices and in personal practices teach and have a much smaller role.

I am headed on a date with this babe I married 30+ years ago in about 5 mins. She still has the best legs I have ever seen.

Enjoyed the discussion.

BT...wlt@ghgworks.com

If anyone wants to buy "car... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

If anyone wants to buy "carbon credits", I sell them for $25.00 per large zip-lock bag. This way instead of farting into the open air, I will fart into the bag and close it fast. This will cut down on the amount of methane released into the air which then can be used as a "carbon credit" This way you can take the $25.00 fart bags and use them as credit to use $25.00 worth of electricity more each month. On days when I have lunch that include navy or pinto beans there will be a discount of $5.00 per bag. Order must be in by no later then the 3th of each month. Orders will be "filled" as they are dated. I am working up a deal with area farmers to use their herd animals. In this deal you will be able to purchase a cork to insert in the rectum (ass for those with limited schooling) of each animal to prevent the release of methane gas. A signed receipt will be given with cork purchased for your proof of your "carbon credit". Corks are sold by size. As an example, one to fit AlGore would sell for $100.00-one to fit your average size bull would sell for $5.00. Looking forward to doing business with you (I need the money to pay for my medicine so p'p' will not have to help me pay for it) Be sure and hug your favorite tree each day.
Yours truly,
Organic Carbon Credits Inc.
P O Box # OU812
Area 51, NM

Sorry to interrupt the food... (Below threshold)
iftheshoefits:

Sorry to interrupt the food fight.

As you were, guys.

jhow66, I'll buy 5 bags.</p... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

jhow66, I'll buy 5 bags.

How much will that help cover for Albert's mansion polution?

Oops, my bad. Al gore no l... (Below threshold)
David:

Oops, my bad. Al gore no longer has secret service protection.

Wow these comments are full... (Below threshold)

Wow these comments are full of liberal idiots and their pathetic arguments. Pretty fucking sad.

Gore is selling himself indulgences and trying to force you to join him, all at enormous profit for himself, while he blazes through more energy than a small town in the name of "saving the planet." You're welcome to it, but don't expect us to participate in your stupidity.

Mitch' from my reserch that... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Mitch' from my reserch that should cover about 13 minutes. Thanks. :)

when we start useing nukes,... (Below threshold)
tj:

when we start useing nukes,the greenies will start whinning about where to put the waste, or more to the point,not in my back yard

I've been inspired by Al Go... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

I've been inspired by Al Gore's efforts to stop global warming. So, in tribute to Al Gore, I've adapted his methods to my life.

My name is _Mike_ and I'm a polluter. I currently drive a SUV that gets a meager 20 MPG. As penance for this sin against Mother Earth, I purchase carbon offsets. I purchase them through a special fund which I've setup. The fund is called 'Save the Planet (Buy A New Ride for _Mike_)'. The fund's goal is to purchase me a new vehicle. How is this fund saving the planet ? It invest specifically in new vehicles for me. Since new vehicles tend to get better gas mileage than older vehicles. I will burn less gas and produce less green house gases.

This is a life long endeavor, as I plan to continue contributing to the fund and purchasing new vehicles on a ~5 year basis.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention... the fund will be a non-profit so that makes my plan that much more noble, just like Algore's.

(My next plan involves reducing my intake of beans since they cause me to produce methane - a greenhouse gas 22x as potent as CO2. I'm setting up the fund now called 'Steak lunch for _Mike_')

I worked at a Wal*Mart dist... (Below threshold)
scrub_oak:

I worked at a Wal*Mart distribution center for 3+ years. It measures 1.5 million square feet in area. Over 7 miles of conveyor belts course through its interior, moving millions of boxes of merchandise to 50 trailers at a time, for 3 shifts per week day. The interior is lit by hundreds of industrial high bay lights. The 20 acre parking lot is lighted continually from dusk to dawn. All the indoor lift equipment (over 100 in number) operate on batteries. The lightest batteries weigh 2300 lbs., with the heaviest ones at 4000 lbs. There are over 50 batteries at any given time charging up at the battery exchange area to support operations. A massive computer center tracks and controls all merchandise movement and provides daily updates via satellite transmission to the company's headquarters. Security cameras are scattered throughout the entire site feeding multiple monitors in the security station. The cafeteria provides 2 meals a day for purchase for the approximately 1000 employees. Now I don't know the total KWH expended by the site, but I do know that the electrical budget ran $1.2 million for the year. Taking the average electrical expense per square foot per year, it turns out that this electrically massive distribution center is nearly twice as efficient as the Gore Mansion. The figures are $0.80/square foot/year for Wal*Mart compared to $1.63/square foot/year for Al and company. Price alone will not give a wholly accurate comparison since the going rate per KWH varies by location. Since the warehouse where I worked is located in New York State, known for its sky high electricity rates and the Gore Mansion is in Tennessee where the rates are much lower, the efficiency disparity is probably wider, easily as much as an additional two-fold. Yet Wal*Mart is the embodiment of evil and Al Gore is Gaia's savior. Go figure.

Blog sites can get one of 3... (Below threshold)

Blog sites can get one of 365, $1,000,000 money, not stock, money-Awards at settlement. A major boycott is the most powerful social instrument known to history.

Get $1,000 to $1 million in free, Founders stock in Federal Beneficial Automatic-IRA SportsBOND Commission, when issued. Intrinsic $ billion-a-day turnover can get Wall Street's highest valuation. The largest IPO ever, i-Boycott-required.

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Advertiser-boycott required: All NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL home games must be broadcast. NFL: 4 nights a week. NFL 20-game season, no pre-season.

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Thanks for bringing out the... (Below threshold)

Thanks for bringing out the hypocrisy known as Al Gore. When the left gets pointed out for their obvious hypocrisy they get all defensive. It is also hard for them to take criticism of any kind.

Bush's house uses less energy and I think his security detail is a little larger than Gore's. Well, I suppose facts get in the way of the "truth".

Why does Gore not modify his house? Why does Gore fly around in a personal jet and not use commercial air? Technology is pretty sophisticated nowawdays he could present over the internet and not burn all that carbon jetting here and there in his crusade. What a concept, actually leading by example and not rhetoric.

yea, keep on bitching for m... (Below threshold)
hmm:

yea, keep on bitching for more taxes, carbon taxes, congestion tolls, etc. government will gladly oblige and implement them on YOU. the companies that makes billions of dollars in profits will have no problem covering a small fee to pollute all they want. it will end up being thousands of dollars more in taxes for the rest of us.

"Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."
Adolf Hitler




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