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Democrats and Justice

Well, now it's official.

A Republican accused of a crime can expect Justice from a D.C. jury in 2007, to about the same degree a black man accused of a crime in Alabama could expect Justice in 1907.


Comments (79)

Huh? What was unjust? Or is... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Huh? What was unjust? Or is this just a hit and run?

(Last one was rhetorical)

What a travesty! The jury... (Below threshold)
Brian D.:

What a travesty! The jury was ready to convict Libby before the trial began. The Prosecutor knew there was no crime commited as soon as he began his "investigation".
Now the Left can pretend they have won some kind of victory against the Bush administration. What a laugh.
Valerie Plame wasn't an undercover agent. She drove her car from her house to her office at Langley everyday for five years.
Joseph Wilson lied to the Senate Intelligence Committee about the yellowcake in Niger.

Between 1882 and 1930 262 b... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Between 1882 and 1930 262 blacks were lynched in AL. Below is a list of the common reasons to lynch a black man in the South (I did not find obstruction of justice or perjury):
Acting suspiciously
Gambling
Quarreling
Adultery
Grave robbing
Race hatred; Race troubles
Aiding murderer
Improper with white woman
Rape
Arguing with white man
Incest
Rape-murders
Arson Inciting to riot
Resisting mob
Assassination
Inciting trouble
Robbery
Attempted murder
Indolence
Running a bordello
Banditry
Inflammatory language
Sedition
Being disreputable
Informing
Slander
Being obnoxious
Injuring livestock
Spreading disease
Boasting about riot
Insulting white man
Stealing
Burglary
Insulting white woman
Suing white man
Child abuse
Insurrection
Swindling
Conjuring
Kidnapping
Terrorism
Courting white woman
Killing livestock
Testifying against white man
Criminal assault
Living with white woman
Throwing stones
Cutting levee
Looting
Train wrecking
Defending rapist
Making threats
Trying to colonize blacks
Demanding respect
Miscegenation
Trying to vote
Disorderly conduct
Mistaken identity
Unpopularity
Eloping with white woman
Molestation
Unruly remarks
Entered white woman's room
Murder
Using obscene language
Enticement
Non-sexual assault
Vagrancy
Extortion
Peeping Tom
Violated quarantine
Fraud
Pillage
Voodooism
Plotting to kill
Voting for wrong party
Frightening white woman
Poisoning well

Well, Barney, I do see "Vot... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Well, Barney, I do see "Voting for wrong party". That seem to apply here.

The whole idea that Iraq wa... (Below threshold)

The whole idea that Iraq was trying to acquire yellowcake from Africa is preposterous on the face of it. Saddam could have retrieved tons of yellowcake from the massive phosphate deposits that Iraq has near Al Qaim which is near the border with Syria. He had no reason to go to Africa to get it.

And even if he did it was useless to him because he did not have the means to refine it. As we all know, you can't make a bomb from raw yellowcake. The process of obtaining fissile material from yellowcake is expensive, time consuming, requires significant technological expertise, and a complex setup of centrifuges.

Bush, Cheney, Libby, et al, played upon the ignorance of a majority of American people who don't understand the difference between Uranium and Uranium-235. People heard the word "uranium" and they believed Saddam was on the brink of getting a bomb. But it was all a massive deception on the part of our government. Libby certainly deserves jail time for his part in that conspiracy.

At least those require inte... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

At least those require intent. How many of those require you to have perfect memory from events a year ago?

Libby should have followed ... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

Libby should have followed Hillary's script in front of the grand jury investigating her cattle futures insider trading. "I don't recall." Over a hundred times.

So when does Libby get hang... (Below threshold)
mantis:

So when does Libby get hanged?

Larkin:Well, they ... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Larkin:

Well, they could have gotten some uranium from al Qaim, of they completely rebuilt the plant that was blown up in the first Gulf War (while under the eyes of every recon satellite on the planet).

It would have been a project big enough for even UN inspectors to notice, though, while buying uranium from the big, busy mines in Africa would have been a matter of getting some corrupt officials to siphon off a few percent of their normal production.

The other thing you sorta skipped over was that, until 9/11, Saddam thought he was getting away with it - mostly because people like yourself just couldn't bring themselves to believe that someone as sweet as Saddam Hussein could possibly want a nuclear weapon, and that the horrible old US was just picking on Iraq's muderous, genocidal dictator.

This jury took a long time ... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

This jury took a long time to reach a verdict..
They decided the evidence demonstrated Libby lied.
That resulted in a guilty verdict...
Damn..doesn't that mean anything?

Libby did "Conjuring" a sto... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Libby did "Conjuring" a story.

The political implications ... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

The political implications of this are interesting. Obama benefits from it.

If the Dems want to run on the GOP as a culture of corruption, they can hardly have the wife of an impeached president on the top of the ticket. An impeached president whose pardons were suspect, too.

Yes, Larkin, Bush was count... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

Yes, Larkin, Bush was counting on the ignorance of people like the Nigerian official that stated he viewed the Iraq trip as an attempt to buy yellowcake from his country. And the CIA officials who told the 9/11 comission that Wilson's trip added more credence to their opinion that Iraq DID try to obtain the yellowcake. He sure is cunning for a moron.

Also, with the AQ Kahn network selling Nuke tech to anyone who had money...as Saddam did, courtesy of the UN...there was likely to be a steep learning curve for that kind of thing.

So Plame wasnt covert, Wil... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

So Plame wasnt covert, Wilson has been proven to be a sphincter, yet, libby is convicted?

HTF can someone lie about someone being covert, that isnt?

If Bush had balls, he'd pardon him by sunrise tomorrow.

Since when have Dems cared ... (Below threshold)
woody:

Since when have Dems cared about Obstruction of Justice, Perjury, & Lying to investigators??? Aren't William Jefferson/Clinton both Dems? Didn't Shrillary tweak & bombast the FBI? Did I sleep through an entire 8 years of lies, perjures, & obstruction?

Calls are starting to come ... (Below threshold)
Lee:

Calls are starting to come in for Cheney to resign.

It showed the lengths to which Cheney went in early summer 2003 to discredit administration critic Joseph Wilson. The former ambassador's assertions had cast doubt on the administration's justification for having taken the country to war in Iraq. And the Libby case showed the president assisting Cheney in the leaked attacks on Wilson.

Libby, who was Cheney's chief of staff, was found guilty on Tuesday of four of five counts of obstructing justice, lying and perjury during an investigation into the administration's disclosure of the identity of undercover CIA official Valerie Plame, Wilson's wife.

The verdict "does great damage to the Bush administration," said Paul C. Light, professor of public service at New York University. "It undermines the president's pledge of ethical conduct. But the most serious consequence is that it will raise questions about Cheney's durability in office. It may be time for Cheney to submit his resignation."

But don't count on it. Bush in the past has repeatedly come to the defense of his vice president.

The writer is correct - don't count on the Bush administration doing anything ethical at this point - look at the way Bush protected Rumsfeld until the day after the '06 election!

Which is all for the good of Democrats -- Cheney is now a huge albatross around the neck of the GOP, and he will help sink their chances in the 08 election.

Bush, Cheney, Libby, et ... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

Bush, Cheney, Libby, et al, played upon the ignorance of a majority of American people who don't understand the difference between Uranium and Uranium-235. People heard the word "uranium" and they believed Saddam was on the brink of getting a bomb.

Because we all know that Saddam really wanted uranium to put his ingenious plan of using helium balloons to float missiles into the US into motion.

Lee, if that is what you be... (Below threshold)
Joe Smoe:

Lee, if that is what you believe, then I think Cheney should run for Prez.

Barney,And since y... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Barney,

And since you bring it up,

Inciting trouble
Inflammatory language
Sedition
Being disreputable
Being obnoxious
Throwing stones
Making threats
Demanding respect
Unpopularity
Unruly remarks
Using obscene language
Enticement
Vagrancy
Voting for wrong party

All apply to you and/or every other troll here.

Anything but a perjudice ju... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Anything but a perjudice jury, would have found Lewis Libby guilty of nothing. Since it was Armitage who informed Knovak about Ms Plame undermining the policy of the elected govenment by sending a person she knew would find the desired results, facts not withstanding, for the purpose of undermining US policy for polical purposes. In times past, it would not have been Libby on trial but the Wilsons. There treason will go unpunished. Sadly.

"What a travesty! The jury ... (Below threshold)
jt:

"What a travesty! The jury was ready to convict Libby before the trial began. The Prosecutor knew there was no crime commited as soon as he began his 'investigation.'"

If they were ready to convict beforee the trial then Libby's lawyer did a damn poor job of jury selection.

jt,Not if the enti... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

jt,

Not if the entire pool was the same.

"mostly because people like... (Below threshold)
jt:

"mostly because people like yourself just couldn't bring themselves to believe that someone as sweet as Saddam Hussein could possibly want a nuclear weapon,"

Well he looked so gentle shaking Donald Rumsfield's hand. I mean if Donald shake's your hand (After you gassed a shitload or iranians and didn't mention it) i would have thought you were sweet too.

A DC jury pool probably has... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

A DC jury pool probably has the same makeup politically as one from Boston or San Francisco.

"Not if the entire p... (Below threshold)
jt:


"Not if the entire pool was the same."

First, what is your reasoning based on, that led you to beleive the jury pool had already determined the outcome? second, what is reasoning based on that leads to the concluson that the entire jury pool was tainted?


Wonder if Lee will answer a... (Below threshold)
Alcudia:

Wonder if Lee will answer any tough questions today or puss out like she did yesterday.

jt,See Wethal's po... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

jt,

See Wethal's post immediately above yours.

jt, it's not a question of ... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

jt, it's not a question of taint. It's a question of the political bias that the jurors bring with them. DC, Boston and SF all have overwhelming Democratic registration. No Bush administration official could get a fair trial from a group predisposed to vote against the GOP.

"See Wethal's post immediat... (Below threshold)
jt:

"See Wethal's post immediately above yours."


So, your reasoning is that because DC is liberal leaning (According to you and Wethal) one must conclude that the jury poole would never contain Americans who would fullfill their constitutional duty to give libby a fair trial, and further more we can conclude that since the jury poole is so saturated with DC liberals (Who either have been following this case enough to make up their minds in advance, or hate the Bush administration so much that they will send an innocent man to prison for 25 years) that there is no way Libby's lawyers could have possibly weeded out those who had already made up their minds? That sounds reasonable.

P.S. Like the Zappa thing.

p.p.s. Sorry about all the ... (Below threshold)
jt:

p.p.s. Sorry about all the spelling errors. Going a little fast.

I can't handle tough questi... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I can't handle tough questions so please don't ask.

There(sic) treason will go ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

There(sic) treason will go unpunished. Sadly.

Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III

Happy Fitz-Patrick Day

I can't handl... (Below threshold)
Lee:

I can't handle tough questions so please don't ask.

Posted by: Lee at March 6, 2007 07:36 PM

The comment above isn't mine, and since Alcudia has been trolling me on other threads I suspect it is him/her who posted that comment.

jt, no, I don't think they ... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

jt, no, I don't think they did take their oath seriously given the fact that all but one turned up on Valentine's Day in goofy Red T-shirts and wished the courtroom a Happy Valentine's Day.

It wasn't Bush, Cheney, or ... (Below threshold)
Ran:

It wasn't Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfield, but the Trolls will take it and cheer. Now.. a fine like Burger got? or pull his law Degree like Clinton?.. or just ignore it like with Jefferson.. THAT is the question now, since we all know he didn't "OUT" anyone.

"Lee, if that is what yo... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"Lee, if that is what you believe, then I think Cheney should run for Prez."

So do I. Where do I send my check?

"jt, no,Jtreversed I would ... (Below threshold)
Jt:

"jt, no,Jtreversed I would guess you wouldn't either. Why? because I'm guessing you are not a sociopath and don't hate clinton so much you would ruin someone's life. What do you think?

Wethal, <br ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Wethal,

How dare you omit the largest populated of Liberal cesspools , Los Angeles.

Well he looked so gentle... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Well he looked so gentle shaking Donald Rumsfield's hand.

Part of the job of working in diplomacy and international relationships is standing face to face with people like Saddam and pretending they're normal people.

...like in the 1980s, when Iraq was in the middle of a big, nasty war with Iran (who we were in a de facto state of war with, since they took a bunch of hostages in the US Embassy, in extreme contravention of international conduct). Iraq was already getting a huge amount of money from the Soviet Union, and we needed to make at least some effort to keep contacts going, so the Soviets wouldn't have uncontested control of the area from Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia.

Of course, when we don't stand there and shake hands with crazy assholes (like the folks who run Iran), you're going to complain because we're not "negotiating" with them to end their nuclear weapons programs...

Post got mangled somehow. l... (Below threshold)
jt:

Post got mangled somehow. let me try this again.

Wethal you are postulating that 12 jury members were comfortable sending an innocent man to prison for up 25 years because they wore valentine's day t-shirts. That is pretty flimsy evidence don't you think?

let me ask you a question as someone who was probably not a clinton fan, would you send a member of his administration to jail for 25 years if you had any reasonable doubt? I'm guessing no. I sure wouldn't send a bush offcial to the funhouse, and ruin his life, and his family's life if I thought he was innocent, and I hate this administration. In fact I would try damn hard, t-shirt or no t-shirt, to get the verdict right so i could sleep at night. How about you?

"Part of the job of working... (Below threshold)
jt:

"Part of the job of working in diplomacy and international relationships is standing face to face with people like Saddam and pretending they're normal people."

Ahh Diplomacy, must be something we did a long time ago because I have no memory of it.

"...like in the 1980s, when Iraq was in the middle of a big, nasty war with Iran (who we were in a de facto state of war with, since they took a bunch of hostages in the US Embassy, in extreme contravention of international conduct). Iraq was already getting a huge amount of money from the Soviet Union, and we needed to make at least some effort to keep contacts going, so the Soviets wouldn't have uncontested control of the area from Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia."

Someone was putting forth the absurd idea (was it you?) that liberals loved Saddam because they critisize the way Bush dealt with the problem of Saddam. Which is about as logical as concluding Rumsfield loves Saddam because he shook his hand.

"Of course, when we don't stand there and shake hands with crazy assholes (like the folks who run Iran), you're going to complain because we're not "negotiating" with them to end their nuclear weapons programs..."

Well for the record, I would prefer we at least give diplomacy the ol' college try (We did this in the 80s right?) before we go and open a third front on the war on terror. Call me crazy, but it
might just work and we can avoid fighting the most powerful Army in the middle east, while trying to stabilize iraq and stop a resugent Taliban in Afhanistan. with a stretched thin millitary. Are you saying you would prefer we go straight to a shooting war?

Which is all for t... (Below threshold)
Which is all for the good of Democrats -- Cheney is now a huge albatross around the neck of the GOP, and he will help sink their chances in the 08 election. Posted by: Lee at March 6, 2007 06:09 PM

Considering most of you nutjobs would love to see him die, I take whatever you say with a grain of salt...

If you're going to start lionizing that hack liar Joe Wilson, as Olbermann is already doing, I'd say your chances in 08' are down the tubes.

Sad Lee, Good to s... (Below threshold)
Alcudia:

Sad Lee,

Good to see you, like most libs, cut n run when the going gets tough.

Im sure your parents are proud to have raised an invertebrate. How long til they kick you out?

Cheney and Rove should do w... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Cheney and Rove should do what is right a resign. Bush did say that he would fire all those involved.

Happy Fitz-Patrick Day

"and I hate this admin... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"and I hate this administration."

Of course you do. And since you "Hate" this Administration you by defaut also hate me.


"to get the verdict right so i could sleep at night."

I highly doubt your hateful ass has any trouble sleeping at night. You've just proved yourself a lying POS. You haven't had a sleepless night in the last 6 years the Criminal party of democrats have shamelessly smeared and attacked our President George W Bush Commander in Chief in a time of War and disgracing our Country in the process. Need I mention the fact that our enemies become ever more confident and emboldened every time the Rats or their Media open their shitholes.

Inconvient truth democrats know full well and when called on it they are instant incoherant retards with brain damage and memory failure.

Hey Rob, Happy Fitz-Patrick... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Hey Rob, Happy Fitz-Patrick Day, it looks like you could use a little cheer.

Rob, shouldn't you be off t... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Rob, shouldn't you be off training pitbulls or sending threatening letters to movie characters written in your own feces or something?

So, I'm assuming you think ... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

So, I'm assuming you think the jury got the verdict wrong. Why? What leads you to that conclusion?

Barney , Sh... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Barney ,

Shut up stupid. Involved in what?

Jt wrote:

"Are you saying you would prefer we go straight to a shooting war?"

Then I thought of Barneys "Cheney and Rove should do what is right" and ya they should do what is right according to the laws on the books. Round up the democrat traitors and execute them publicly. Iran and Syria even North Korea will no doubt go the way of Lybia.

However as long as we have treasonous democrat pussies in positions of Power with their manipulating Media Americans will die at the hands of criminal politicians fiending for more power and complete control. These same lying basturds have the gaul to lie and accuse the one President who embarrassed them by showing them what a Commander in Chief is suppposed to do.

jt, it wasn't just T-shirts... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

jt, it wasn't just T-shirts. It was the T-shirts in an unsuitable setting. They didn't realize the seriousness of the matter. I would like to know if anyone in the jury room ever said, "It doesn't matter if we convict. Bush will pardon him. Let's send a message." Sort of reverse jury nullifcation.

And given the comments of one juror (and I realize he's one of eleven) that they wanted to know where Rove and the others were. Well, they weren't there because Fitzgerald hadn't charged them with anything. But the jury seemd to think there was some guilt there. Or a conspiracy. But there was no conspiracy charge there (tkaes two to make a conspiracy

The jury was supposed to focus on the facts as presented against the one defendant in front of them.

This will get reversed on appeal. Walton was not a mental giant, was in over his head, and had every word scrutinized by the press. Wells will bury Walton under post-trial motion paper.

P.S. If it means anything, I was a lawyer, albeit I did civil lititgation. I now teach at a university.

This prosecution lacked per... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

This prosecution lacked perspective from day one, when it could have determined the statutes and Plame's status with CIA couldn't be reconciled to a prosecution on the merits. But after years of fishing, they found something.

Thin gruel for justice.

Libby helped evacuate thousands from Vietnam as it crumbled under the calumnies of the Democrats in the 1970's. Will the Left acknowledge his service to the country, and the 3rd rate nature of what took him from public service?

I'm not holding my breath.

Anybody find yourself just ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Anybody find yourself just skipping the Lee/Hugh/larkin/Barney posts? They have more than half the board, but they really are all sound and fury signifying nothing.

If it were worth my time, I might read them. The childishness of these grown men is amazing.

Convicted before the trial ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Convicted before the trial started. The jury said so. Millions of dollars wasted on a non crime. Convicted, Boo Hoo Hoo, BFD. Fitzfong would be indicted by the U.S. attorney general, if we had one with a brain. Replace him with the first wino you find on a street corner and more would get done in the justice dept. The jury should also be indicted, tried, convicted and jailed on their own comments.
At least we now know that when we watch/listen to the antique MSM that we are listening to proven liars. Hey, didn't everyone already know that, from say the 60's to now? No one should be called a reporter in the future. Call all news shows (just that shows) and what they put out as 'my political opinion'.

Mitchell,grown men... (Below threshold)
Alcudia:

Mitchell,

grown men?? I thought they were all 12-14 yr old girls.

Wethal Wrote: <br ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Wethal Wrote:

"And given the comments of one juror (and I realize he's one of eleven) that they wanted to know where Rove and the others were."

And I'll throw in the shameless and childish comments of Piglosi and Dingy Reid and you have the shameless state of the democrat party and their supporters. Full of hate and revenge morally bankrupt and criminally corrupt.

"Hey Rob, Happy Fitz-Patrick Day, it looks like you could use a little cheer".

Need I say more? More childish glee as Democrats celebrate more ill gotten political gain while in the background another democrat gets quietly busted for child Pornography.

"jt, it wasn't just T-shirt... (Below threshold)
Jt:

"jt, it wasn't just T-shirts. It was the T-shirts in an unsuitable setting. They didn't realize the seriousness of the matter. I would like to know if anyone in the jury room ever said, "It doesn't matter if we convict. Bush will pardon him. Let's send a message." Sort of reverse jury nullifcation."

First off thanks for arguing civilly. it is appreciated.

I think that is a stretch to assume that not only is the jury pool tainted, but that it is so tainted they would either a) all come to the conclusion indepedently that Bush would pardon Libby. Or b) that some are not only so politically biased that they believe Bush would do it, but feel comfortable enough in the bias of the rest of the jurors to assert that position in such way to convince any who are uconvinced.

"And given the comments of one juror (and I realize he's one of eleven) that they wanted to know where Rove and the others were. Well, they weren't there because Fitzgerald hadn't charged them with anything. But the jury seemd to think there was some guilt there."
+

Well given who testified in the trial (Novack for example), There was plenty of testimony linking the others to this.

"The jury was supposed to focus on the facts as presented against the one defendant in front of them."

Well yeah, but testimony from a reporter whose source was Rove, is kinda before the jury.


"This will get reversed on appeal. Walton was not a mental giant, was in over his head, and had every word scrutinized by the press. Wells will bury Walton under post-trial motion paper."

Perhaps, If the judge is a conservative apointee will you buy it when the liberlas scream bias?

"P.S. If it means anything, I was a lawyer, albeit I did civil lititgation. I now teach at a university."

This is supposed to help your credability? Just kidding.

Posted by: Wethal at March 6, 2007 09:12 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"You've just proved yoursel... (Below threshold)
jt:

"You've just proved yourself a lying POS"

WooHooo FLAME WAR! In resonse to your intelligent and thoughtful post Rob, let me just say: Yo' mama!

I sometimes wonder how any ... (Below threshold)

I sometimes wonder how any honest Liberal (I know, an oxymoron) can say that this was not a miscarriage of justice? Here is what is KNOWN:


1. There was no "outing", thus
2. The SP was appointed when no crime had been committed
3. Armitage was the ostensible first person to talk about the non-covert CIA employee not Libby. Fitzgerald knew this but kept it secret for 2 years.
4. The Washington DC press corp knew about Plame long before Libby got involved.
5. The Wilsons were on the take from the Dems with ol' Joe telling lie after lie regarding the underlying issue of the Yellowcake mission in order to advance his own political agenda.
6. There can be no conspiracy involving Rove or Cheney regarding the "outing" since there was no one to "out". Even if they did consult on a way to expose the liar Joe Wilson, that would be about as much against the law as if they had spoken about when to get together for lunch sometime.
7. The case against Libby relied soley on the testimony of a Liberal opinion maker, Tim Russert, who himself, had trouble remembering details that had happened a year earlier (his faulty memory was ignored by the jury while Libby's was the focus of the trial.)
8. It is now official, you can be convicted of a felony for having a memory of an event that is different than that of a political opponent.
9. Once again, the Dems and their accomplices in the antique media have managed to criminalize policy decisions made by their enemies.
10. The jury was chosen from a pool of people, 9 out of 10 of which are Democrats. It would surprise me if the defense was able to find any conservatives to sit on the jury since the prosecution would have objected to any such person. The defense would not have had the same luxury since objecting to a liberal being on a Washington DC jury would be fruitless.

Beeblebrox:1) Plame ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Beeblebrox:
1) Plame was outed, Fitz has said on several occasions that she was covert, and if she was just classified, it is still wrong.
2) See point 1, Also, Libby lied to the FBI and was convicted of obstruction of just. That happened before SP was appointed.
3) Armitage was part of the BUSH administration. He was/is a neo-con. The law does not put a stipulation on who was first or if the outing occurred to the media or a private citizen.
4) Just not true, no evidence was presented that back this up.
5) Not true, you have no evidence that JW was paid prior to the outing of his wife, and you can not find one lie in JW Times Op-ed. No one has.
6) Part of the Libby defense was that Libby was being scape-goated, there must be a conspiracy for that.
7) You obviously did not pay any attention to the trial, or to the testimony from CIA officials, The press Sec. or Libby's aid.
8) What opponent? Russert, Cooper, Miller? Who are you even talking about? Neither Wilson or Plame testified or even mentioned in the trial.
9) The investigation was launched the the BUSH administration. The BUSH AG appointed a REPUBLICAN prosecutor
10) He should lied in Texas.

BB, you obviously had no idea what you are talking about, and absolutely NO-knowledge of law. Libby was convicted of four out five counts.

Face it, the Bush administration is full of liars.

Did you personally fact-che... (Below threshold)
dzog:

Did you personally fact-check those talking points, or are you just assuming they are probably correct like all the others they send you?

Come on, bud, thinking people only, please.

---
dzog

that was to bb, by the way.... (Below threshold)
dzog:

that was to bb, by the way.

0 for 10 beetlebrox..... (Below threshold)
shredl:

0 for 10 beetlebrox..
the fact remains; Scooter Libby-CONVICTED FELON
sure must suck to be you
Shred1

Jt, "Yo... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Jt,


"Yo' mama!" ? Well guess what? "Yo' mama! said knock you out". Yo mama very upset with your failing school grades , says she can hear you repeating democrat talking points in your sleep down in the basement. She would really appreciate you didn't miss so many classes and actually learned something.

No Shredl it really sucks... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

No Shredl it really sucks that it took all those years and all those millions wasted to get Rove , your intended target and you failed. There is no doubt anymore about who and what the Democrats are. A PATHETIC PERPETUAL FRAUD.

Can Scooter now hang around with the worlds most famous convicted Felon BJ Clinton? You know , goin around the world makin millions lying and trash talking our Country , PRESIDENT GEORGE W BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION? Loser.

Rob, Clinton is not a felon... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Rob, Clinton is not a felon, he was not convicted.

Libby is going to jail for a long time where he will be giving the blow-jobs.

Want to bet on that barneyg... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Want to bet on that barneygaagle?

One question--what the hell is going to change not that he is found guilty? NOTHING. Get that? NOTHING. New trial. Appeal. Years.

Rob, Why would I g... (Below threshold)
jt:

Rob,

Why would I go back to school? I have forgotten more than nitwit such as yourself will ever know.
Now run along. Don't come back until you can put together a coherent argument.


"not"--should be "now".... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

"not"--should be "now".

5. The Wilsons were on the ... (Below threshold)
yossarian:

5. The Wilsons were on the take from the Dems with ol' Joe telling lie after lie regarding the underlying issue of the Yellowcake mission in order to advance his own political agenda.

Yea ..he's a real shmuck....

From 1988 to 1991, he was the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq. He was praised by George H. W. Bush after sheltering more than one hundred Americans at the embassy, despite Saddam Hussein's threats to execute anyone who refused to hand over foreigners. As a result, in 1990, he also became the last American diplomat to meet with Saddam Hussein.[10] When Hussein sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Iraq) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by appearing at a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck and saying "If the choice is to allow American citizens to be taken hostage or to be executed, I will bring my own fucking rope," a flair for public appearance that has become a trademark of Wilson.

BB your points are very eas... (Below threshold)
The Mean Ol' Liberal:

BB your points are very easy to refute.

1. There was no "outing",

Then why did the CIA demand the investigation in the first place (internal to WH)? The CIA doesn't know who its own covert officers are?

thus 2. The SP was appointed when no crime had been committed

By John Ashcroft, following the White House's internal investigation and, upon more demand from the CIA, surrender to the DOJ. Ashcroft conducted a brief DOJ investigation and recused himself to a Special Prosecutor.
Apparently Ashcroft felt there was cause for investigation.

3. Armitage was the ostensible first person to talk about the non-covert CIA employee not Libby. Fitzgerald knew this but kept it secret for 2 years.

Libby was not charged with offenses connected to leaking classified information. He was charged with obstruction of justice, perjury and lying to investigators in the process of investigating who leaked what to whom.
Libby was identified by reporters as one WH source to them for the information. Armitage is a DIFFERENT source to DIFFERENT reporters.
Simultaneous leaks of classified information do not necessarily exculpate each other.

4. The Washington DC press corp knew about Plame long before Libby got involved.

If so, then subsequent CIA directors following George Tenet (the original Director demanding the investigation) had plenty of opportunity to offer the evidence that Plame's covert status had already been well compromised.
Instead, neither Porter Goss nor Michael Hayden sought to offer evidence that would have stopped the investigation in its tracks.

Initial list authored by beetlebrox | 03.06.07 - 11:32 pm | #

1. There was no "outing",

Then why did the CIA demand the investigation in the first place (internal to WH)? The CIA doesn't know who its own covert officers are?

thus 2. The SP was appointed when no crime had been committed

By John Ashcroft, following the White House's internal investigation and, upon more demand from the CIA, surrender to the DOJ. Ashcroft conducted a brief DOJ investigation and recused himself to a Special Prosecutor.
Apparently Ashcroft felt there was cause for investigation.

3. Armitage was the ostensible first person to talk about the non-covert CIA employee not Libby. Fitzgerald knew this but kept it secret for 2 years.

Libby was not charged with offenses connected to leaking classified information. He was charged with obstruction of justice, perjury and lying to investigators in the process of investigating who leaked what to whom.
Libby was identified by reporters as one WH source to them for the information. Armitage is a DIFFERENT source to DIFFERENT reporters.
Simultaneous leaks of classified information do not necessarily exculpate each other.

4. The Washington DC press corp knew about Plame long before Libby got involved.

If so, then subsequent CIA directors following George Tenet (the original Director demanding the investigation) had plenty of opportunity to offer the evidence that Plame's covert status had already been well compromised.
Instead, neither Porter Goss nor Michael Hayden sought to offer evidence that would have stopped the investigation in its tracks.

5. The Wilsons were on the take from the Dems with ol' Joe telling lie after lie regarding the underlying issue of the Yellowcake mission in order to advance his own political agenda.

What "lie" did he tell? Wilson was appointed to investigate a singular lead based on select documents. Wilson reported that he could not confirm the suspicions based on that singular lead and those specific documents.
Who was the provider of this evidence of Wilson or Plame being on "the take" from anyone and why would Plame's former employer, the CIA, not have made that charge?

6. There can be no conspiracy involving Rove or Cheney regarding the "outing" since there was no one to "out". Even if they did consult on a way to expose the liar Joe Wilson, that would be about as much against the law as if they had spoken about when to get together for lunch sometime.

This is a redundant claim. If there was no "leak", then why would one CIA Director have demanded the investigation and two subsequent ones NOT have ceased it. The CIA would know Plame's covert status better than anyone else.

7. The case against Libby relied soley on the testimony of a Liberal opinion maker, Tim Russert, who himself, had trouble remembering details that had happened a year earlier (his faulty memory was ignored by the jury while Libby's was the focus of the trial.)

The case against Libby relied on more evidence than just Tim Russert's testimony, inclusive of Libby's own notes and PP presentations.
The jury apparently believed that evidence over Libby's claims of "confusion" or "not recalling", if he even made any such defense.

8. It is now official, you can be convicted of a felony for having a memory of an event that is different than that of a political opponent.

There is no such "official" finding. The jury believed the evidence presented by prosecutors over Libby.

9. Once again, the Dems and their accomplices in the antique media have managed to criminalize policy decisions made by their enemies.

Libby's conflicting testimony with his own notes and with that of reporter's testimony constituted a "policy decision"?
What policy is that?


10. The jury was chosen from a pool of people, 9 out of 10 of which are Democrats. It would surprise me if the defense was able to find any conservatives to sit on the jury since the prosecution would have objected to any such person. The defense would not have had the same luxury since objecting to a liberal being on a Washington DC jury would be fruitless.

What's the source of knowing the political affiliation of the jurors and what is the record on the prosecution's use of exemptory challenges?

"Then why did th... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"Then why did the CIA demand the investigation in the first place (internal to WH)? The CIA doesn't know who its own covert officers are?"

Idiot, because there are Liberal Democrat POS's hold overs from the Clintons 8 years of Corruption and beyond. They have been at war with Bush from the Beginning , or are too stupid like Hilary Rotten Clinton to see what the Fuck is going on around you.

"The CIA doesn't know who its own covert officers are?"

What more proof do you need that this is a line from a liberal? Hilary Rotten had no idea where the 20 Billion was spent in New York or where her BJ is, what he is doing or how many woman she needs to threaten from one week to the other.

There are criminal democrats everywhere like the latest one busted in the ALCU for "CHILD PORNOGRAGHY" the worst that has been seen to date.

You probably don't want to even think about this but too bad, the DEVIL "IS" A DEMOCRAT ,HA HA HA LOL. It only takes one idiot to burn down a village.

D.J., absolute sheer nonsen... (Below threshold)

D.J., absolute sheer nonsense for an evaluation. "Scooter" Libby decided to convict himself of perjury by deliberately choosing to forget facts to protect others in the Bush Administration who believe that outing a CIA official, and undermining our intelligence was the right way to get "even" with Ambassador Joe Wilson who disagreed that Saddam Hussein was attempting to purchase nuclear weapons type materials in Africa.

Comparing someone who chose to throw himself under a truck to protect others in the Bush Administration who undermined our intelligence community for political vindicativeness by deliberately commiting perjury to a Black that was railroaded on patently false rape or theft charges is simply outrageous.

For someone with your level of writing skills and supposed education, D.J., I certainly expected a far better evaluation than this nonsense.

Former Republican Congressman Dick Armey offered a far better evaluation on CNN today when he compared this needless vindictative nonsense from the Bush Administration to the Nixon "Watergate" Administration's vindictative antics.

I once worked for President Nixon as a very young fellow and was extremely disappointed in the watergate antics. You should equally be ashamed at any antics in this administration that compromise our intelligence community by outing CIA operatives.

"Scooter" Libby helped to arrange at least one high profile pardon during the Clinton Administration. Libby is a sharp attorney who knows the mechanics of a pardon well, and will likely get one from from Bush at some point in an effort to protect the higher-ups in this administration.

The jury looked for any possible way to find Libby innocent. But he simply made it impossible for these jurors to accept his obstruction and lies. No one should look to justify his own bad choices.

Idiot, because there are... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Idiot, because there are Liberal Democrat POS's hold overs from the Clintons 8 years of Corruption and beyond. They have been at war with Bush from the Beginning , or are too stupid like Hilary Rotten Clinton to see what the Fuck is going on around you.

Hey, it's Rob talking about Clinton again! Hey Rob, what color is the sky?

"Clinton this!"

Hey, Rob, what is your opinion on the situation in the Middle East?

"Clinton that!"

Hey, Rob, what is 3 + 3?

"Clinton, Clinton, Clinton!!"

I stand by my points. I hav... (Below threshold)

I stand by my points. I have a rule, if a person thinks that Plame was "outed" that is the first indication that they are living in their parent's basement and know nothing of the facts nor the logic of this case.

1. If there WAS an outing it was done by Amitage. Fitz knew this yet brought his case against Libby.
2. If there WAS an outing then this would have been against the law but Fitz brought no charges against ANYONE on this point.
3. If there WAS an outing then it was similar to someone starting a whispering campaign that Fitzgerald was appointed special prosecutor on this case. Yeah, that's real news, everybody knows this. Now, asking someone who first told them that Fitz was the SP on the case might get you a variety of answers, claims and counter claims.

Personally, this case doesn't affect me as either a Republican or conservative. The verdict will be overturned on the sheer idiocy factor or Bush will pardon him for the miscarriage of justice that it clearly is. Meanwhile, the libs will have further proven that they don't care about fairness, justice, or the rule of law. What they care about is that their arch enemy, George Bush was negatively affected somehow by all this.

Got news for you losers, Bush won't be affected by this at all. He still believes in fighting terrorists, he still believes in increasing troops in Iraq, he still believes that you guys are wrong. So for all the celebrating on the left over "getting" some guy on trumped up charges, OUR agenda still advances. So, in reality, it sucks to be a lib (like usual).


Hansel , you don't have t... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Hansel , you don't have to admit it cause your incapable of it. It sucks ass being you , young and stupid or should I say "Stupider". Why do cry at the very mention of the Criminal Clintons? You are a miserable idiot and that is why you are here.

I voted for Clinton and am not the least bit miserable for having done so. I don't support nor will I ever vote for anyone in the Criminal Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud. You do and your misery is proof of your stupidity. How do you handle your own stupidity? Is coming here some sick doctors prescribed cure?

"Go news for you los... (Below threshold)
Craig:


"Go news for you losers, Bush won't be affected by this at all. He still believes in fighting terrorists, he still believes in increasing troops in Iraq, he still believes that you guys are wrong."

Oh, ok everyhting must be wrong as long as Bush thinks it. I could say try thinking for yourself, but I might as well as a turtle to fly.

"o for all the celebrating on the left over "getting" some guy on trumped up charges, OUR agenda still advances. So, in reality, it sucks to be a lib (like usual).'"

You are the few, the proud, the %28.

Well, I'm sure that Fitzger... (Below threshold)
Bostonian:

Well, I'm sure that Fitzgerald and his fans will pursue a case against the Armitage with equal vigor; after all Armitage did leak the identity of a supposedly covert agent.

Right.

Remind me again how many reporters and how many Democrats are calling for Armitage's head?

Oh, ok everyhting must b... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Oh, ok everyhting must be wrong as long as Bush thinks it.

No, those things he listed have nothing to do with the Left still having the habit of being wrong about so many things.

It's funny how often we get that sort of answer, though. If you point out one or two misconceptions, you get that junior-high attitude of "OH, so I'm wrong about EVERYTHING, EVER, huh?"

...and you might be, but stop telling us that we said something we didn't, and stop reminding us about just how one-dimensionally you see the world.

You are the few, the pro... (Below threshold)

You are the few, the proud, the %28.

What does this nonsense even mean?

My point of course, was that the Libby trial signifies pretty close to nothing as far as Bush policy is concerned. Thus, conservatives really only are defending Libby because it is a miscarriage of justice and not because his acquittal would have somehow helped the conservative cause. Furthermore, I was pointing out that the childish jubilation on the left over a "gotcha" of an innocent man is not just juvenile and moronic, but also a kind of evil. Taking pleasure in sending a person to jail just because he was connected to a guy you hate, is the stuff of fascism, not of a freedom loving people.

I assure you that if a conservative SP was going after the scalp of an innocent Democrat administration staffer, I would be the first to condemn it. If there is a crime, then go after it, if there is a desire to tear an administration down for tearing down's sake as Fitzgerald has been doing, then it is the SP who should go to jail, not the staffer.

I think that in your heart of hearts, you liberals know that this trial was a fraud but you liked it anyway because it was someone in the opposition. You think it was worth ruining the career of a quality middle manager and spending millions in order to pursue a case that could damage the administration (which it won't of course). Going after corruption or a sexual predator, certainly, but prosecuting someone for a faulty memory? C'mon. If that is to be our standard then Mrs. Bill Clinton should be serving what, about 50-75 years in prison right now? NO ONE has had a worse memory under oath than her, not even her husband.

I am reminded that it was you guys who were saying that Ken Starr was the criminal for pursuing Clinton. Where is all your righteous outrage now? Hypocrites.




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