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Scooter Libby Guilty Of Perjury, Obstruction

Scooter_Libby.jpg


The verdict in the trial of Lewis "Scooter" Libby has been read. Libby was found guilty on both counts of perjury, the single count of obstruction of justice, and on one of the two counts of making a false statement to the FBI. Four guilty verdicts and one not guilty.

Each count carries a maximum fine of $250,000 fine; thus, Libby could face up to one million dollars in fines. The guilty verdicts also carry a maximum prison term of thirty years. Under federal sentencing guidelines it's unlikely that Libby would receive anything near the maximum.

U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton has ordered that a pre-sentencing report on Libby be completed by May 15, and Libby's lawyers have indicated that they will file a motion for a new trial. If that motion fails, they will then file an appeal.

Updates by Kim:

Patrick Fitzgerald announced that he will not be filing any other charges.

Judge Andrew Napolitano speculated that the Libby's attorneys will file a motion for a new trial based upon the questions that the jurors asked, which could show that they were "hopelessly confused." The jury even asked the judge if Libby was charged with lying to one of the journalists.

Update: Ok, one of the jurors, Denis Collins, is speaking now, and he just said he was a reporter for many years. I'm surprised that Libby's defense attorneys would accept him on the jury. Get this: Denis said that the jury believed Libby was the "fall guy." That sounds like something that they would have heard on the news. Can't that be argued that the jury was, therefore, tainted?

Update II: Denis, the reporter, just admitted that the jury took Matt Cooper's word over Libby's.

Update III: Again, Denis said that the jury believed that Russert was very credible. So, two journalists were more believable than Libby. Shocking.

Update IV: Denis is having a hard time recalling the details of what took place in the jury room yet they have a hard time believing that Libby remembered some details better than others. Doesn't his own remarks here show how easily Libby could forget with whom he had conversations about Valerie Plame?

Update V: And get this: For a mere $150.00, you can see Keith Olbermann interview Valerie Plame. And Joe Wilson will be on Olbermann's Countdown tonight with reaction, I suspect.

Update VI: Here's the text of Harry Reid's reaction:

I welcome the jury's verdict. It's about time someone in the Bush Administration has been held accountable for the campaign to manipulate intelligence and discredit war critics. Lewis Libby has been convicted of perjury, but his trial revealed deeper truths about Vice President Cheney's role in this sordid affair. Now President Bush must pledge not to pardon Libby for his criminal conduct.

Where'd this pardon talk come from? And since when do Democrats have an issue with them? It was Clinton who pardoned the most corrupt people upon his leaving office.

Here's Pelosi's reaction:

Today's guilty verdicts are not solely about the acts of one individual.


This trial provided a troubling picture of the inner workings of the Bush Administration. The testimony unmistakably revealed - at the highest levels of the Bush Administration - a callous disregard in handling sensitive national security information and a disposition to smear critics of the war in Iraq.

Where was Nancy's outrage toward Sandy Berger, who not only stole national security documents and lied about it, but destroyed them as well? And let's not forget that Speaker Pelosi was completely committed to naming Alcee Hastings, a former Florida judge who was impeached for bribery and perjury, as chairman House Select Committee on Intelligence. The only reason she backed down from that was because of all the outrage that followed. And Speaker Pelosi has the nerve to now indignantly claim that Libby's conviction is proof of the Bush Administration's disregard for national security issues?

Update VII: Tammy Bruce also has suspicions about juror Denis Collins, who she says wrote for the Washington Post.

Talkative Libby Juror Denis Collins is apparently a journalist who has written for the Washington POst among other newspapers. There is also word which I'm still checking on that he plans to write a book. As you can imagine a book about a case likethis is only relevant when there's aguilty verdict. Another element the Libby defense team should consider is if a juror or jurors had a financial interest in the nature of the verdict, either through furthering their own profile, or the sale of a book about the matter.


They already have an excellent case for both a new trial and an appeal base on the fact that Collins also noted that a myriad of other considerations affected their deliberations, like Libby being the "fall guy" for Karl Rove. It seems they created an entire conspiratorial backstory with other characters that had nothing to do with whether or not Libby, as an individual man, lied.

Update VIII: Mark Levin has some very interesting comments:

This morning the jury didn't understand two of the counts. Yesterday it didn't understand what was meant by reasonable doubt. Let me suggest that in the end it still didn't understand the two counts or reasonable doubt.


Please, spare me the lectures about the jury system and a fair trial. This case should never have seen the inside of a courtroom. The witnesses were universally pathetic. The judge was overly restrictive in the testimony he allowed on behalf of the defense. But most of all, I object to this case because it was political from beginning to end. Patrick Fitzgerald's closing argument was as much about Dick Cheney and George Bush as Libby. He wanted the jurors to consider the war. He wanted them to look at more than the evidence. So, it's perfectly legitimate for some of us to conclude that they did. We might call this jury nullifcation in reverse.

This gives more insight into Denis Collins' comments that the jury thought Libby was the Bush Administration's "fall guy."

Quin Hillyer at the American Spectator blog doesn't have a kind word for Patrick Fitzgerald:

I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of using the courts for a personal vendetta (related to the old Marc Rich case). I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of improperly using his closing argument to broaden the case into an indictment of Dick Cheney and of thereby sliming Scooter Libby of guilt by association. I accuse Fitzgerald of improperly intimating to the jury that Libby betrayed deadly national secrets. I accuse Fitzgerald of extreme inconsistency in giving blanket immunity to Ari Fleisher without even knowing what Fleisher would say, while badgering Libby for hours on end in order to trap Libby into saying anything, anything at all, that this modern-day Inspector Javert could claim was perjury. I accuse Fitzgerald of manufacturing a case out of whole cloth even after knowing, almost from day one, that there was no underlying crime. I accuse Fitzgerald of treating Libby (and Rove) entirely differently from Richard Armitage. I accuse Fitzgerald of manifold abuses of his prosecutorial authority and discretion. I accuse Fitzgerald of persecuting an innocent man. I accuse Fitzgerald of megalomania. I accuse Fitzgerald of bloodlust. In short, I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of being a lousy excuse for a human being. And I hope our Maker, the Great Author of All Justice, will do true justice in the end.

Others blogging:

Bill Faith
Greg Tinti
Ian at Hot Air
Sister Toldjah
Mary Katharine Ham
Tom Bevan at RealClearPolitics has a good roundup of reaction.


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Comments (229)

Well, there you go. Appare... (Below threshold)

Well, there you go. Apparently nowadays reporters whose own notes contradict their version of events are more believable to a jury than an administration employee in a 'he said/she said' case.

Appeal time?... (Below threshold)

Appeal time?

Bummer.The upside ... (Below threshold)
kim:

Bummer.

The upside is that appeal will get the real story out, which wasn't a sure thing. I doubted we'd get cloture over the run-up to the war with an innocent verdict, and now we have a chance.
====================

And Sandy Burger goes free,... (Below threshold)
Ted:

And Sandy Burger goes free, with no prosecution!!!!!

Amazing

What a joke...And ... (Below threshold)
Dave:

What a joke...

And good point about Sandy Burgler

"Imagine the howls from ... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"Imagine the howls from the left if Libby is found not guilty of all charges. My best guess is that it's a mixed verdict - not guilty on obstruction and perjury, and guilty on false statements."

Oh yeah!

I smell a pardon! Presidentin' Iran Contra style!

Wonder what his reward will... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Wonder what his reward will be for taking the fall for the big guys? Ambassador? Head of the EPA? PR man for the coalition of the leaving?

Good thing Bush brought bac... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Good thing Bush brought back honor and integrity to the White House.

"And Sandy Burger goes free... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"And Sandy Burger goes free"

If you got a problem with that, take it up with the Bush administration They run the Justice department.

That's what passes for just... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

That's what passes for justice in this country nowadays. About the only jurors they could find that didn't have much pretrial knowledge of the case were too ignorant (as evidenced by their questions) to deliberate and judge the facts of the case. I'm sure there will be an appeal, but appeals deal only with the process and no new evidence can be introduced unless it pertains to the process rather than the case. Bush needs to mark his January 2009 calendar with a note to remind him to pardon Libby before he leaves office.

And the award for "I Still ... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

And the award for "I Still Don't Understand This" goes to...


groucho:
Wonder what his reward will be for taking the fall for the big guys? Ambassador? Head of the EPA? PR man for the coalition of the leaving?
?

I have to agree with _mike_... (Below threshold)

I have to agree with _mike_. Talk about glaring ignorance. Not to worry, though, the newspapers will all be reporting tomorrow that he was convicted of 'outing' a covert CIA agent.

what I think is more amazin... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

what I think is more amazing is that Clinton, who admitted to lying under oath, went free.

What was surprising to me is that the jury convicted on Tim Russert's testimony after he was shown not to even be able to remember some of his own actions and statements even after being shown his own notes.

I can't find it anywhere online, but Harry Reid released a statement that Fox News read saying this verdict held someone accountable for the manipulation of intelligence or some such ridiculous claim. He also said something about a presidential pardon.

Hey, anybody got links to l... (Below threshold)

Hey, anybody got links to liberal sites already declaring how evil and wrong and indefensible perjury and obstruction of justice in a perjury investigation is?

You know where I'm going with this, right?

Perjury is only a BAD thing... (Below threshold)
Listkeeper:

Perjury is only a BAD thing when it's a Republican accused of it!

Did the judge and lawyers c... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Did the judge and lawyers cry? That seems to be the new thing.

I keep hearing the name Sco... (Below threshold)
Jo:

I keep hearing the name Scooter Libby when they read the guilty verdicts. I thought this was about Karl Rove? I mean, all the MSM and liberal bloggers said the Karl Rove guilty deal was a "sure thing." This is confusing. Liberals don't lie, do they?

ROFLMAO

P.S. Looking forward to Clintons upcoming trial - ya know, since he lied under oath while PRESIDENT.

Oh wait....that and stealing documents and hiding them under trucks doesn't count.

Thanks, but I think the awa... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Thanks, but I think the award is premature. I don't think all the votes have been counted. It's not such a big deal, really, just another glimpse behind the curtain of the Cheney/Rove political machine. After he's pardoned though, we'll see where he ends up. Good soldiers are always rewarded in the Bush family.

I continue to be puzzled by... (Below threshold)
TR19667:

I continue to be puzzled by Bush and Gonzalez.

1) Clinton lies to the Grand Jury and walks

2) Berger steals classified docs and walks

3) Two border agents are sent to prison on the word of a mexican drug dealer who's granted immunity and given mucho bennies

4) A US congressman is caught on tape (and in the fridge) taking a bribe with no apparent ramifications

5) The two largest US papers routinely devulge classified information

But Libby is convicted wrt a crime that never happened, basec on the word of several "journalists"

Bush should be ashamed and Gonzalez fired. This may be the weakest and worst AG in recent history.

Bush get out your pen and p... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Bush get out your pen and pardon the poor guy. This whole thing was a sham and everyone knows it. The jury knew that a not guilty verdict would mean less drama for their upcoming "movie."

Yawn.

Perjury is only a BAD thing... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Perjury is only a BAD thing when it's a Republican accused of it!
Posted by: Listkeeper at March 6, 2007 12:42 PM

I think you mean a Republican found GUILTY of it. Hahaha. This is very funny seeing you all piss and moan. Justice was served, and you all know it.

Justice was served? Not re... (Below threshold)

Justice was served? Not really sure about that. If the gaggle of reporters was all clear on their stories and agreed with each other (and with themselves, by the way), I could agree with you. As it stands it seems odd that this conviction was based, not on a confession or evidence, but the admittedly spotty recollections of a group of people with a proven antagonistic attitude towards the defendant. That said, it could still be true. I think most of the commenters (and writers) here are thrown mostly by the quality of the evidence and the attitude of the accusers more than anything.

P.S. Looking forward to Cli... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

P.S. Looking forward to Clintons upcoming trial - ya know, since he lied under oath while PRESIDENT.
Oh wait....that and stealing documents and hiding them under trucks doesn't count.
Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 12:47 PM

Yeah, I guess that lying about weapons of mass destruction doesn't either, right Jo? But, who cares if thousands of American soldiers are dead over a couple of lies, right? It's amazing how you assholes can rationalize for the criminals in the Bush Whitehouse.

The shrinking right-wing: a pathetic group of losers and whiners. LOL.

I smell a rat. This Juror,... (Below threshold)
yo:

I smell a rat. This Juror, Collins ... something ain't right about him.

Maggy, we're yawning, not w... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Maggy, we're yawning, not whining. But nice try. Now where is Rove's guilty verdict? You guys said it was a SURE THING. lol.

This would have a hell of a lot more "impact" had it not come after the Clinton administration, who it seems had half his staff get indicted.

Again, yawn.

Bush get out your pen and p... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Bush get out your pen and pardon the poor guy. This whole thing was a sham and everyone knows it. The jury knew that a not guilty verdict would mean less drama for their upcoming "movie."
Yawn.
Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 12:52 PM

Everyone knows it? Poor guy? Time to take your meds, dear. The ever diminishing morals of the right-wing couldn't be more evident than they are here today. You people are truly pathetic.

maggy, does lying about WMD... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

maggy, does lying about WMD count for all the democrats who said the same thing, including hillary? or is it only the republicans that get saddled with that responsibilty? Thought so.

I love when moonbats try to... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

I love when moonbats try to talk about morals.

"what I think is more am... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"what I think is more amazing is that Clinton, who admitted to lying under oath, went free."

Free but not unpunished, "Practicing" journalist:

"On February 12, the Senate concluded a 21-day trial with the vote on both counts falling short of the Constitutional requirement of a two-thirds majority to convict and remove an office holder. The final vote was generally along party lines, with all of the votes to convict being cast by Republicans. On the perjury charge 55 senators voted to acquit, including 10 Republicans, and 45 voted to convict; on the obstruction charge the Senate voted 50-50."

(which party held the majority during that period?)

And -

Clinton was disbarred from his Arkansas law license for five years and ordered to pay $25,000 in fines to that state's bar officials. The agreement came on the condition that Whitewater prosecutors would not pursue criminal charges against him after he lied under oath about his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

yo, you're right. What's w... (Below threshold)
Jo:

yo, you're right. What's with the drama with this juror? Looks like he's rehearsed this since day one. This guy is acting like he's vying for his own tv show, like the Anna Nicole judge.

These guys can't wait to get to the microphone for their 15 minutes. What a circus!

Jo, No, you're whining. "Y... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Jo, No, you're whining. "You guys" were sure Bill Clinton would be thrown out of office, and you haven't stopped pissing and moaning about it for eight long, boring years. Talk about yawn.

This is very funny. Thanks for the laughs.

maggy, does lying about WMD... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

maggy, does lying about WMD count for all the democrats who said the same thing, including hillary? or is it only the republicans that get saddled with that responsibilty? Thought so.

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 01:04 PM


Oh, so you're admitting that the Preznit lied? That's a first, and about time.

Maggysturn,Yeah, t... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Maggysturn,

Yeah, the diminishing morals of the rightwing, meanwhile we continue to pull cash out of Jefferson's freezer, as Nancy rewards him on Homeland Security panel, privy to classified info. What's next? Sandy Burglar in charge of the National Archives? lol

You guys are hilarious.

"I love when moonbats tr... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"I love when moonbats try to talk about morals."

I love it when wingnuts try to talk at all. You might be lucky enough to hear it through a full set of teeth.

Nah.

No, no, d-hoggs, you see Ge... (Below threshold)

No, no, d-hoggs, you see George Bush, while governor of Texas, made the Clintons and their administration talk about Iraq's WMDs in the late 90s. Really. And if he didn't do it, then Cheney did it - in the Oval Office with the Evil Weather Machine. Or in the National Archives with The Socks. Or something like that.

Bush get out your pen an... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Bush get out your pen and pardon the poor guy. This whole thing was a sham and everyone knows it.

Thats right. Keep defending these people as they lie, steal and kill. It doesn't matter whether it's a democrat or a republican. If you're so deluded that you're defending these people simply because they're part of your "team" you're pathetic.

And keep your head in the sand about all this. That's what you're good at. Fools.

Should Clinton have gone to jail? Why not. That was up to his prosecutors. If Nixon hung around and Ford didn't pardon him, he should have been locked up too.

The country is more important than any of these people. That's what someone like you, Jo, with your right-wing-at-all-costs mind can't grasp.

And the current President - that liar - he should be behind bars as well. Probably won't, but the case they'll make against him and Cheney isn't going to be pretty.

yo, you're right. What's wi... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

yo, you're right. What's with the drama with this juror? Looks like he's rehearsed this since day one. This guy is acting like he's vying for his own tv show, like the Anna Nicole judge.
These guys can't wait to get to the microphone for their 15 minutes. What a circus!
Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 01:05 PM

Right out of the rebuplithug talking points handbook. Attack the jury now. This is truly hilarious.

Jo, get those meds out - ya need 'em bad.

Yeah, the diminishing moral... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Yeah, the diminishing morals of the rightwing, meanwhile we continue to pull cash out of Jefferson's freezer, as Nancy rewards him on Homeland Security panel, privy to classified info. What's next? Sandy Burglar in charge of the National Archives? lol
You guys are hilarious.
Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 01:07 PM

No, Paul Wolfowitz's Medal of Freedom and appointment to the World Bank.

I was listening to a jury t... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I was listening to a jury that went right out and faced the press. What a jerk. I kept saying to myself "keep talking" because I noticed many inconsistencies in what this jurist determined. I smell an appeal or maybe even a new trial. ww

Again, the impact would be ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Again, the impact would be greater, had it not come fresh off the previous administration of "I'm not sure we were ever alone" Bill Clinton.

Happy St. Fitz-Patrick Day!... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Happy St. Fitz-Patrick Day!

hansel2:Isn't Jo s... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

hansel2:

Isn't Jo sad? So is D-Hoggs (perfect name), McLorry, and the whole lot. They're as unpatriotic as they can be - Republican party over country.

But they think they're patriotic cause they still do have those yellow "Support Our Troops" stickers on their cars - what a sham.

maggysturn, huh? put down... (Below threshold)
Jo:

maggysturn, huh? put down the booze.

wildwillie, are you believing this guy? He's just a little to excited to talk. Is this so completely obvious or what? lol.

I have a gargantuan piece o... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

I have a gargantuan piece of cheese to accompany perhaps the largest whine in human history.

The guy had a trial, he got convicted and he has the right to an appeal. What happened to the party of personal responsibility, the law and oder party? Oh, I forgot - it was hijacked by right wing wingnuts.

And now of course lets do ad hominem attack on a juror. If you folks weren't such a barrel of laughs I'd throw up just like Jo regularly does.

Again, the impact would be ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Again, the impact would be greater, had it not come fresh off the previous administration of "I'm not sure we were ever alone" Bill Clinton.
Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 01:14 PM

Yawn. This "but, but, but, Bill Clinton" crap is 8 years old. Jo, you're like Henny Youngman - ya need new material.

The guy had a trial, he ... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

The guy had a trial, he got convicted and he has the right to an appeal.

Very true.

This is a travesty!<p... (Below threshold)
hermie:

This is a travesty!

All the reporters couldn't keep their own stories straight and either contradicted one another, or they couldn't recall...Yet Libby gets convicted on the basis that the reporters' were more 'credible'?

Of course, the Andrea Mitchell testimony was never heard, and the judge decided to change the meaning of 'Reasonable Doubt' to make a conviction easier.

If you folks weren't such a... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

If you folks weren't such a barrel of laughs I'd throw up just like Jo regularly does.

Posted by: Hugh at March 6, 2007 01:16 PM

That's from Jo's meds....

No maggie, I am not saying ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

No maggie, I am not saying they lied, I am saying that republicans and democrats alike went on what intelligence we had at the time, they argued the same exact points. yet somehow only the republicans are lying? please explain how that works. hypocrite.

"I love it when wingnuts try to talk at all. You might be lucky enough to hear it through a full set of teeth."

Case in point!

Looking forward to seeing t... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Looking forward to seeing the party registrations of the jury. I smell book deals!

Notice that Fitzgerald said Plame was CLASSIFIED. He didn't say COVERT.

Bingo!

You really need to put that... (Below threshold)
The Listkeeper:

You really need to put that crack pipe down, Maggysturn...

Of course, the Andrea Mitch... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Of course, the Andrea Mitchell testimony was never heard, and the judge decided to change the meaning of 'Reasonable Doubt' to make a conviction easier.
Posted by: hermie at March 6, 2007 01:19 PM

What????? Hermie, have you been stealing Jo's meds again? Seriously, you right-wingers need serious help. Help!!!

LOL, I mean, LOTS of LOL.

"You really need to put tha... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"You really need to put that crack pipe down, Maggysturn..."

Seconded! Good lord.

Jo, the jurist is probably ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Jo, the jurist is probably still talking to the reporters. I say more power to him. Let him go on and on. He obviously did not understand the instructions from the judge. ww

maggy, first off, ... (Below threshold)
yo:

maggy,

first off, I brought up the juror, not Jo. Keep your victims straight, why don'tcha'.

secondly, ***w me. All I said was that something about this guy doesn't strike me as being right. I didn't attack the guy, or the jury.

thirdly, you make it sound as though "republithugs" (a childish slur, at best - what time is recess over? protect your lunch money, kiddo) are the only ones to use such tactics. PUH-lease ... you guys are still miffed over some stolen election, two, actually. And let's not forget the Swift Boat fellas.

The hypocricy of the left knows no bounds.

After following along with ... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

After following along with the daily updates at FireDogLake and JustOneMinute, I don't see how justice was served today. You have a he/she said argument with nothing concrete. You have witnesses who couldn't recall things, then recalled them and in some cases contradicted what they originally thought, but the accused is the only one charged and now convicted of perjury.

Clearly the judge, jury, pr... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Clearly the judge, jury, prosecutor, all the witnesses, and the court stenographer are all in on the massive liberal conspiracy.

And Bill Clinton is fat! And, umm....Mary Jo Kopechne!

D-Hoggs,The democr... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

D-Hoggs,

The democrats (Hillary included) were too much of wimps to challenge the lies (yes, lies) from the Bush Whitehouse, and now they're scrambling to cover their asses. And I hope they pay dearly for it.
George Bush lied about WMDs, and as soon as you admit it to yourself (as hard as that might be in your double-wide), you'll be out of that paltry 27% who still support that moron.

But, who cares? Scooter (never trust a grown man with that name) was found guilty - just as he should have been.

wildwillie, I hope that jur... (Below threshold)
Jo:

wildwillie, I hope that juror is on the news. People will see right through that "enthusiasm." Random House, here's my number!! lol.

I'm still wondering where the Karl Rove indictment is. We were PROMISED by the libbys (no pun intended) lol.

From the top of Drudge:... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

From the top of Drudge:

JUROR: WE HAD SYMPATHY FOR LIBBY, HE WAS THE FALL-GUY, WHERE WAS ROVE, WHERE WERE THE OTHERS...? SOME JURORS SAID 'THIS SUCKS, WE WISH WE WEREN'T JUDGING LIBBY'...

That comment is amazing and should be distressing to everyone. Why would the jury even be discussing this. What a sham.

This is a travesty. A clea... (Below threshold)
marty arrowsmith:

This is a travesty. A clear co-conspirator in war crimes is only convicted of perjury and obstruction. The most pathetic and dangerous administration that has overseen the horrors of an illegal and immoral war while ignoring all the concerns at home (new orleans, walter reed, health care, illegal immigration)should have far more charges and ultimate convictions brought upon it. From malfeasance, to war profiteering, to war crimes and you sad deluded souls still bring up Clinton and whine how unfair it all is. You right wingers are a pathetic lot. Why do you reactionary conservative morons hate America so much?

Posted by: yo at March 6, 2... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Posted by: yo at March 6, 2007 01:23 PM

"***w me?" Now that's very adult of you. You attacked the juror. Nuff said. Another right-wing loser who can't accept the truth.

Defending the "Swift Boat fellas"? Again, nuff said.

The hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

An even more confused than ... (Below threshold)
BC:

An even more confused than usual Lorie Byrd chirped:

what I think is more amazing is that Clinton, who admitted to lying under oath, went free.

Umm, Clinton never admitted any such thing, and why should he -- he never technically lied. He was evasive and he engaged in word play, but he never legally lied, regardless of how much it's been engraved into right wing lore that he did. And let's not forget that Clinton's business involved only an office dallance between consenting adults, whereas Libby was involved at the least in obstructing and lying to government investigators looking into the outing of a CIA agent

You are truly delusional!!!... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

You are truly delusional!!! I am so sure hillary was too scared to voice decension, HAH!! I'd like to know how GWB can be a stupid chimp and yet at the same time be so all powerfull that no democrat wants to disagree with him, in fact quite the opposite, they all wanted to agree with him!! It's incredible, please explain that. And I love the typical liberal childish comments about double-wides and missing teeth. I'd venture to guess I come from a MUCH wealthier and educated background than you maggy, are you typing from your bed at the abortion clinic? See, I can throw out stupid slurs as well.

From the top of Drudge:... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

From the top of Drudge:

JUROR: WE HAD SYMPATHY FOR LIBBY, HE WAS THE FALL-GUY, WHERE WAS ROVE, WHERE WERE THE OTHERS...? SOME JURORS SAID 'THIS SUCKS, WE WISH WE WEREN'T JUDGING LIBBY'...
That comment is amazing and should be distressing to everyone. Why would the jury even be discussing this. What a sham.

Posted by: J.R. at March 6, 2007 01:28 PM

From Drudge? Well that's an unbiased source! LOL.

If it is true, than I guess that blows Jo's "where's Rove's indicment?" argument out of the water. Thanks, JR.

Now mantis, if you want to ... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

Now mantis, if you want to talk about conspiracy theories, what will the lefties do if these stories come true (from Drudge also):

Will a blood clot force Cheney to step down?

Yeah just in time to avoid impeachment!!

CIA: FRESH LEADS IN HUNT FOR BIN LADEN...

Just in time to get the libby stuff off the front page!! /sarcasm

jesus you are dense maggy, ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

jesus you are dense maggy, he was pointing out your complete hypocrisy in saying republicans whine about the 8year old Clinton affair, while democrats do nothing but whine about swiftboating and stolen elections. its called reading comprehension, get you some.

Hugh:I hav... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Hugh:

I have a gargantuan piece of cheese to accompany perhaps the largest whine in human history.

Hughbie, the 2000 Presidential election has been over for a long time. It's a little late to be bringing food for the that party.

J.R. OMG! That is just bi... (Below threshold)
Jo:

J.R. OMG! That is just bizarre. That makes this even MORE of a sham. Why are they even talking about Rove??

This now COMPLETELY REEKS. Good! Americans are seeing right through it.

I'd venture to guess I com... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

I'd venture to guess I come from a MUCH wealthier and educated background than you maggy, are you typing from your bed at the abortion clinic? See, I can throw out stupid slurs as well.

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 01:30 PM

OK, Hoggs. You're better educated? Than please tell me why you can't spell (see above). Hahaha.

"And let's not forget that ... (Below threshold)
yo:

"And let's not forget that Clinton's business involved only an office dallance [sic] between consenting adults"

BC


Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about the dallinaces (during the Paula Jones investigation), not for the dalliances, themselves.

... let's not forget, indeed.


"He was evasive and he engaged in word play, but he never legally lied, regardless of how much it's been engraved into right wing lore that he did."


Oh! That makes it alright, then(?). Remember that analogy the next time you want to split hairs with the whole "Bush Lied People Died" horse apples.

"The democrats (Hillary inc... (Below threshold)

"The democrats (Hillary included) were too much of wimps to challenge the lies (yes, lies) from the Bush Whitehouse, and now they're scrambling to cover their asses. And I hope they pay dearly for it. "

Umm. this was the 90's moron.

-

"Umm, Clinton never admitted any such thing, and why should he -- he never technically lied."

"I did not have sex with that woman" wasn't a lie? What the hell planet are we on? He just had sex with her dress?

What's wrong with you peopl... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

What's wrong with you people? Just accept it. The senior advisor to Vice President Dick Cheney lied and deceived prosecutors. That is a criminal offense.

Bill Clinton? He doesn't matter. That was 7 years in the past. Bring him up all you want, but it is not relevant, no matter how you want to claim lack of fairness.

This Juror? What is it? You have NOTHING else to shrill about so you have to start concentrating on this person? Just sad.

Your country should not be beneath your reverence to these jerks in office. If they are, I suggest you go somewhere where that kind of mindset is acceptable - like 1930's Germany.

That you don't see the similarities in your lemming-like actions is pure ignorance.

maggy, calm down a little a... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

maggy, calm down a little and take a breath. I believe that is a compilation of things stated by the juror being interviewed. It was about what was being said in the deliberations. I've seen it elsewhere, I just copied it from Drudge and wanted to give credit. Sheesh.

J.R. what do you want to b... (Below threshold)
Jo:

J.R. what do you want to bet that Fitzgerald wants to shut that juror up??!!!

They are going to blabber so much and reveal their true motives. Yeeeehaw. Get them on Larry King, pronto!

This now COMPLETELY REEKS. ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

This now COMPLETELY REEKS. Good! Americans are seeing right through it.

Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 01:35 PM

No, Jo, no one is "seeing through it". The 27% who are stupid enough to still support Bush are just trying to create a conspiracy out of a jury's correct decision.

"I did not have sex wit... (Below threshold)
Jo:

"I did not have sex with that woman" wasn't a lie? What the hell planet are we on? He just had sex with her dress?

Posted by: Falze at March 6, 2007 01:35 PM

Bwahahahahahahahah.... maggy, keep talking, you're hilarious.

Now that's very adult of yo... (Below threshold)
yo:

Now that's very adult of you. You attacked the juror. Nuff said. Another right-wing loser who can't accept the truth.

Defending the "Swift Boat fellas"? Again, nuff said.

The hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.
Posted by: maggysturn


I'm just lowering myself to your level so that you'll understand me. It's difficult to speak slowly on the 'net.

Otherwise, d-hogg did well in explaining to you how you're off your nut, and completely spinning my words.

What's wrong mags? Can't get time in the HuffPo echo chamber?

Now mantis, if you want ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Now mantis, if you want to talk about conspiracy theories, what will the lefties do if these stories come true (from Drudge also):

Well, I was talking about hand-waving, not conspiracy theories, but I wouldn't be surprised if some "lefties" did jump on those stories as you predict (eh, maybe not the bin Laden one; it would take more than that to get the media off of the Libby train).

Yes, Bush, pardon the guy b... (Below threshold)
suhnami:

Yes, Bush, pardon the guy because he's a Republican and he served you well. And since you were all in the jury and at the trial you all know everything that was said and therefore may pass judgement on decisions. Yes, bring up Clinton one more time and play tit for tat because that is all too relevant. Poor 'pugs have been getting their asses handed to them because this administration is flailing ruderlessly and somehow need to blame liberals or bring up the past where a liberal walked when he should have been punished. Next time maybe don't create a false war that bankrupts the country and do what you're good at: Saving people a little money at tax time. Also, don't try to convince the world that earth is only 6,000 years old. That does not help your cause.

Everyone, can we please put... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

Everyone, can we please put the Bill Clinton comparisons to bed (OK bad joke). Clinton was impeached and punished for his perjury. It's way in the past.

There are plenty of things to discuss about this case and verdict, Bill Clinton is not one of them.

"The democrats (Hillary inc... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

"The democrats (Hillary included) were too much of wimps to challenge the lies (yes, lies) from the Bush Whitehouse, and now they're scrambling to cover their asses. And I hope they pay dearly for it. "

Umm. this was the 90's moron.
Posted by: Falze at March 6, 2007 01:35 PM

Wow, talk about an idiot. That wasn't in the 90's pal. Jo is spreading the meds all around today, huh?

everyone just shut up! and... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

everyone just shut up! and shut that juror up! i want to enjoy 5 minutes of feeling good about my party. and recess is almost over

please don't spoil this for me!!!!!

What's wrong mags? Can't ge... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

What's wrong mags? Can't get time in the HuffPo echo chamber?

Posted by: yo at March 6, 2007 01:39 PM

No, Yo. I love science fiction, so I come to Wizbang. But that's awfully nice of you to stick up for Hoggs.

Rush is on a roll. A calle... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Rush is on a roll. A caller asked the same question brought-up here: Why was Libby prosecuted and Burglar not?".

Rush said, the Justice Department doesn't work for Bush (cabinet level department)?

He also said that there is a government wide conspiracy in the CIA, Pentagon and State Department (lead by Democrats) to undermine the Bush administration.

See, now you know why Libby was convicted.

everyone just shut up! and ... (Below threshold)
maggyturn:

everyone just shut up! and shut that juror up! i want to enjoy 5 minutes of feeling good about my party. and recess is almost over
please don't spoil this for me!!!!!
Posted by: maggysturn at March 6, 2007 01:41 PM

Now that's mature of you. And completely evasive of debate. Jay Tea?

Yes, I guess the echo chamb... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Yes, I guess the echo chamber at Arianna Huffington is too crowded. Plus I hear that Arianna is busy shutting down the comment site about Cheney's blood cot. The lefties know the venom of their own party, and sometimes they're just downright ashamed.

And they should be. Me loves them tolerant and compassionate libs! ha ha.

maggy, it appears you have ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

maggy, it appears you have and a few to many turns. Perhaps you should absent yourself from motorcycle enthuiast parties as the drugs and sex are starting to tell on your already questionable judgement. I defy you to recall any converation you had on any matter as little as a year ago, and then jeopardize youself to the extent that you could spend 5 years for every mistake you make in that memory. Base the charge agaist you on the recollections of others who in the persuit of truth, reveal faulty memories of their own, yet their memories are accepted as truth. Game for one more turn Maggy?

mags, no offense, toots - b... (Below threshold)
yo:

mags, no offense, toots - but you're not worth it, any more.

Zelsdorf, bwahahahahahah..... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Zelsdorf, bwahahahahahah...

The good news is that everyone is re-discussing the Joe Wilson lies. One pundit is now going through this lie by lie by Joe Wilson.

It's time we revisited this con artist.

Oooo, I tried to write desc... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Oooo, I tried to write descension instead of dissension while typing fast in the middle of doing work. Good one maggy, by the way, what is an "indicment"?! Also, you might want to learn the difference between the words "than" and "then" if you are going to try to claim someone else uneducated. I'll let it slide this time since I'm sure the crack doesn't help.

C'mon, guys. Leave Maggy a... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

C'mon, guys. Leave Maggy alone. She's in such a froth she's misspelling her own name.

Posted by: maggyturn at March 6, 2007 01:45 PM
mags, no offense, toots - b... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

mags, no offense, toots - but you're not worth it, any more.

Posted by: yo at March 6, 2007 01:46 PM


That's it Yo, run. Isn't that what Cheney and Bush did during Vietnam?

And just an hour ago, Fitzg... (Below threshold)
Jo:

And just an hour ago, Fitzgerald answered a question about Plame's status and said Plame was classified. He did not say COVERT.

Case closed on that point. About damn time.

C'mon, guys. Leave Maggy al... (Below threshold)
maggyturn:

C'mon, guys. Leave Maggy alone. She's in such a froth she's misspelling her own name.

Posted by: maggyturn at March 6, 2007 01:45 PM
Posted by: _Mike_ at March 6, 2007 01:48 PM

That was another poster, you moron. Jay Tea?

Now that's mature of you. A... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Now that's mature of you. And completely evasive of debate. Jay Tea?
Posted by: maggyturn


Now that is hilarious!! All of a sudden you want to be mature maggy? Sorry, I couldn't tell from my double-wide that that was the case. Hypocrite.

You know, i just back from ... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

You know, i just back from 10 glorious, sun-filled days on the Maya Rivera in Mexico and it's nice to know two things: 1.) The world hasn't changed and, 2.) The government still wastes our hard-earned money on BS trials like this one...

Your country should not ... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

Your country should not be beneath your reverence to these jerks in office. If they are, I suggest you go somewhere where that kind of mindset is acceptable - like 1930's Germany.

Wow, I think that's the most subtle Godwin I've ever seen.

maggy, it appears you have ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

maggy, it appears you have and a few to many turns. Perhaps you should absent yourself from motorcycle enthuiast parties as the drugs and sex are starting to tell on your already questionable judgement. I defy you to recall any converation you had on any matter as little as a year ago, and then jeopardize youself to the extent that you could spend 5 years for every mistake you make in that memory. Base the charge agaist you on the recollections of others who in the persuit of truth, reveal faulty memories of their own, yet their memories are accepted as truth. Game for one more turn Maggy?
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at March 6, 2007 01:45 PM

Hahahahaha. I see you had the same English teacher that Hoggs had (see 1st grade level spelling and grammer mistakes above).

I was going to post in this... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

I was going to post in this thread, but it seems I left my machete at home. Oh well.

" I see you had the same En... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

" I see you had the same English teacher that Hoggs had (see 1st grade level spelling and grammer mistakes above).
Posted by: maggysturn"

HAHAHAHAAHA!! 1st grade grammar mistakes such as using the word "than" instead of "then" maggy?!!

"Than please tell me why you can't spell (see above). Hahaha.
Posted by: maggysturn"

When does the Armitage tria... (Below threshold)
Jo:

When does the Armitage trial begin?

Oh yeah, she was classified, not covert. No crime. Ooops.

Rush update II, Armatage an... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Rush update II, Armatage and Powell were out to get Bush!

How about spelling "indictm... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

How about spelling "indictment", "indicment" maggy?! Fucking classic!

How about spelling "indictm... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

How about spelling "indictment", "indicment" maggy?! Fucking classic!

Falze openly wrote:<p... (Below threshold)
BC:

Falze openly wrote:


"I did not have sex with that woman" wasn't a lie? What the hell planet are we on? He just had sex with her dress?

A "blow job" isn't considered technically "having sex," especially about the young and with players like Clinton. Calling it "oral sex" doesn't make it having sex either. If a virgin gives someone a blow job, she's still a virgin afterwards. This is called "technical virginity".

But I'm sure the obviously worldly people of this pale land know all about this....

Oh yeah, she was classif... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oh yeah, she was classified, not covert. No crime. Ooops.

Gee, I've been hearing for years how journalists should go to prison for revealing classified information. Guess that only applies to them, not the leakers.

That's it Yo, run. Isn't th... (Below threshold)
yo:

That's it Yo, run. Isn't that what Cheney and Bush did during Vietnam?

Posted by: maggysturn

If you've ever read my posts, here, you'd know that I don't run from anything - especially small minded, "holier than thou" "liberal" trolls.

Then again, I don't consider it worthy of my time to exchange barbs with a shifty slag, such as yourself, whose best political criteria is regurgitating easily dismissed rhetoric that she picked up in an ideological backroom pisshole.

BC,You're right. ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

BC,

You're right. Clinton never lied.

Hey, has Billy gotten his law license back yet? The one that was revoked. Or whatever the hell he got yanked. (oops - another non intended pun) lol.

But he did nothing wrong. Always remember that. Presidents with a law degree routinely get their privileges revoked.

Ann Coulter1/2-Hour ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Ann Coulter
1/2-Hour News Hour
Libby Guilty

Man FOX is having a bad couple of days! What next, we find out the Administration is treating our wounded solders like shi.., wait, that already happened.

Maybe they will get lucky and B. Spears will join al Qaeda by 4PM?

C'mon, guys. Leav... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:
C'mon, guys. Leave Maggy alone. She's in such a froth she's misspelling her own name.

Posted by: maggyturn at March 6, 2007 01:45 PM
Posted by: _Mike_ at March 6, 2007 01:48 PM

That was another poster, you moron. Jay Tea?
Posted by: maggyturn at March 6, 2007 01:49 PM


You do realize that you posted your denial that you misspelled your own name and signed it, misspelling your name?

"The democrats (Hillary ... (Below threshold)

"The democrats (Hillary included) were too much of wimps to challenge the lies (yes, lies) from the Bush Whitehouse, and now they're scrambling to cover their asses. And I hope they pay dearly for it. "

Umm. this was the 90's moron.
Posted by: Falze at March 6, 2007 01:35 PM

Wow, talk about an idiot. That wasn't in the 90's pal. Jo is spreading the meds all around today, huh?

I won't even dig deeper than this moronsturn:

"Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

I believe that 1998 was in the 90s and Bush was not President at the time. Care to dig a deeper hole, moron?

That's it Yo, run.Po... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

That's it Yo, run.
Posted by: maggysturn

Uhhh, hello, maggy? Where did YOU run too? You've got some 1st grade spelling and grammar mistakes to answer for. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

That's it Yo, run.Po... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

That's it Yo, run.
Posted by: maggysturn

Uhhh, hello, maggy? Where did YOU run too? You've got some 1st grade spelling and grammar mistakes to answer for. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:01 PM

Doesn't even make sense, but that's Hogg for you.

MikeSC, Ha! I just notice... (Below threshold)
Jo:

MikeSC, Ha! I just noticed that!

Libs are just liars and idiots. What can ya do? (shaking head)

You people are still pushin... (Below threshold)

You people are still pushing that oral sex wasn't sex. Why exactly don't we call it 'oral almost but not quite sex' then? Un-effing-believable.

You do realize that you pos... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

You do realize that you posted your denial that you misspelled your own name and signed it, misspelling your name?

Posted by: _Mike_ at March 6, 2007 01:59 PM


Wow. You sure got me there. But, there's breaking news: Libby is STILL guilty. Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Wow, is this thread useless... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

Wow, is this thread useless. Grow up people. And please for the love of christ, bite the bullet and ignore maggy.

maggysturn/maggyturn:... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

maggysturn/maggyturn:
Wow. You sure got me there.

Okay, so now that we've established you're an idiot and a liar.. proceed...

So maggy you are going to s... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

So maggy you are going to sit there and pretend like you didn't just try to call people out for 1st grade spelling and grammar mistakes? Right after you wrote "indicment" and used the word "than" instead of "then"? And now you are admitting that your reading comprehension is so awful you can't understand what I wrote?! Absolutely pathetic. Hypocrite.

Well, I won my bet.<p... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

Well, I won my bet.

Not that Libby would be found guilty (although that was a likely result from the start), but that rational discussion would be impossible when a verdict came down, regardless of the verdict.

With the prosecutor declaring that he doesn't foresee filing any further charges, it winds up both a win and lose in everyones column. It'll take a month or so for most of the rational pundits on both sides to draw that conclusion, but it's coming.

"What next, we find out the... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"What next, we find out the Administration is treating our wounded solders like shi.., wait, that already happened.
Posted by: BarneyG2000"

Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000, effectively diverting funds from the VA to where it was needed more for troops in the field?

One juror, Denis Collins, s... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

One juror, Denis Collins, said "there was a tremendous amount of sympathy for Mr. Libby on the jury.

"It was said, 'Where's Rove, where are these other guys?'

"We're not saying that we didn't think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of. It seemed like he was the fall guy," Collins said.

By the way, here's the full quote from the juror. Notice that he says "We're not saying that we didn't think Mr. Libby was guilty"...?

They can't ignore me J.R. The truth hurts them way too much to ignore.

Have a great day folks! Off to the ACLU Meeting! Hahahaha

Okay, so now that we've... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Okay, so now that we've established you're an idiot and a liar.. proceed...

Posted by: _Mike_ at March 6, 2007 02:07 PM

Mike, you're hilarious. You need to be a comedy writer.

Well, I won my bet.<... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Well, I won my bet.

Not that Libby would be found guilty (although that was a likely result from the start), but that rational discussion would be impossible when a verdict came down, regardless of the verdict.

Short odds on that one, no doubt ;). What'd you win? A headache?

Barney, who was it that cut... (Below threshold)
babsbush:

Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000, effectively diverting funds from the VA to where it was needed more for troops in the field?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:09 PM


Who was it? The Republican controlled congress, that's who.

Aaaaaaand maggy skips out a... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Aaaaaaand maggy skips out after being exposed for the frigging idiot she is, and without answering for her pathetic spelling and grammar mistakes she likes to call others out for. Don't remember anyone else here spelling their own name wrong!! Typical.

Who was it? The Republican ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Who was it? The Republican controlled congress, that's who.
Posted by: babsbush at March 6, 2007 02:13 PM

Under the Clinton Administration. If its good enough to blame all things that happen during the Bush Admin. on Bush, then why does it not apply to Clinton? Ridiculous.

Maggy be sure and tell that... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Maggy be sure and tell that ACLU guy Rust-Tierney (the one caught with child rape porn videos) hello for all of us!

You were a hoot. Sorry to see you go!

Naw, I'm right here Hoggs. ... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Naw, I'm right here Hoggs. Would you like to re-enter the debate about Libby's guilt?

"diverting funds from the V... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"diverting funds from the VA"-Hogg

D-Hogg, tell me where in the VA budget the funds were cut for Walter Reed?

It is a trick question, Walter Reed does not receive VA funds to treat active duty personnel.

Another brilliant comment from the hogg.

Happy St. Fitz-Patrick Day

mantis,Short odds... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

mantis,
Short odds on that one, no doubt ;). What'd you win? A headache?

Yeah, pretty much.

Uh, the dems controlled the... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Uh, the dems controlled the presidency, House and Senate for the first 2 years of the Clinton presidency. Boy, the libs have a terrible memory problem.

Who was it? The Republican ... (Below threshold)
babsbush:

Who was it? The Republican controlled congress, that's who.
Posted by: babsbush at March 6, 2007 02:13 PM
Under the Clinton Administration. If its good enough to blame all things that happen during the Bush Admin. on Bush, then why does it not apply to Clinton? Ridiculous.
Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:15 PM

Because Bill Clinton has been out of office for 7 years. And after the debacle at Walter Reed, I think that's sort of a moot point.

No maggy, I'd like you to e... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

No maggy, I'd like you to explain why you are above your very own criticisms?

Uh, the dems controlled the... (Below threshold)
maggysturn:

Uh, the dems controlled the presidency, House and Senate for the first 2 years of the Clinton presidency. Boy, the libs have a terrible memory problem.

Posted by: Jo at March 6, 2007 02:19 PM

And the other 6 years? It's unbelievable how dumb the right-wing is.

No maggy, I'd like you to e... (Below threshold)
maggyturn:

No maggy, I'd like you to explain why you are above your very own criticisms?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:19 PM


Wasn't that you who claimed to be from a "wealthier and better educated" background?

D-Hogg, tell me where in th... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

D-Hogg, tell me where in the VA budget the funds were cut for Walter Reed?
It is a trick question, Walter Reed does not receive VA funds to treat active duty personnel.
Another brilliant comment from the hogg.
Happy St. Fitz-Patrick Day
Posted by: BarneyG2000

And the problem has been at outpatient VA facilities, not at the actual Walter Reed hospital barney. Brilliant yourself there buddy.

Nope, I said, I'd venture t... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Nope, I said, I'd venture to guess, given your lunatic rantings. And that changes the fact that you make spelling and grammar errors while at the same time calling out others for the same how now? Can't even spell your own name. Pathetic.

Barney, who was it that... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000, effectively diverting funds from the VA to where it was needed more for troops in the field?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:09 PM


Who was it? The Republican controlled congress, that's who.

Posted by: babsbush at March 6, 2007 02:13 PM


Like I said, the dems controlled everything the first two years of the Clinton presidency. Where is our nirvana?

In maggysturn's, and Clinto... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

In maggysturn's, and Clinton's, defense, the judgement that there was a "peace dividend" following the end of the Cold War was fairly bipartisan.

Both sides were wrong.

In maggysturn's, and Cli... (Below threshold)
mantis:

In maggysturn's, and Clinton's, defense, the judgement that there was a "peace dividend" following the end of the Cold War was fairly bipartisan.

Do not interrupt the poo-fling fest--err, spelling bee.

Yes John, but if you are in... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Yes John, but if you are in their defense, you are saying it is all the republicans fault.

D-Hoggs, I am saying the Re... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

D-Hoggs, I am saying the Republicans bear as much responsibility as the Democrats for that failure to accurately read the tea leaves.

This is O/T but can you bel... (Below threshold)
Jo:

This is O/T but can you believe John Edwards said that "we" shouldn't be rewarding childish, hateful bigoted language? (meaning Ann Coulter's remark)...

Oh no, I guess we shouldn't "reward" it, just HIRE those who use it. Hiring is not rewarding, right?

Oh yeah, and he said Jesus would be appalled at the selfishness of the United States.

Huh? I wonder if Jesus thinks Edwards needs a 28,000 square foot mansion for 4 people?

You can't make this stuff up.

And the problem has been at... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

And the problem has been at outpatient VA facilities, not at the actual Walter Reed hospital barney. Brilliant yourself there buddy." by d-hogg

From WaPo article (these are active duty troops):

"Almost 700 of them -- the majority soldiers, with some Marines -- have been released from hospital beds but still need treatment or are awaiting bureaucratic decisions before being discharged or returned to active duty."

Hogg, wrong again. Please give-up, you have already made enough of a fool out of yourself.

Happy St. Fitz-Patrick Day

Barney are you kidding? You... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Barney are you kidding? Your own quote says it, "have been released from hospital beds but still need treatment" meaning they are not at the in-patient Walter Reed facility but at outpatient facilities!

John, I got what you're say... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

John, I got what you're saying, my point was that maggy et. al. blame all on the republicans, so to defend them would be doing the same.

Hogg, the outpatient facili... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Hogg, the outpatient facilities is still part of Walter Reed treating active duty NOT veterans, and is under the Pentagon budget, and not veteran affairs

I warned you to stop. Hee-Haw

Barney, I'm glad to see you... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Barney, I'm glad to see you out there advocating AGAINST any sort of government run universal health care system.

Kudos to you for at least seeing that.

I'm not sure what you're tr... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here barney , cause all you're doing is proving my point that the $50 billion in defense cuts took away from all areas of military medical care, which was my original point if you'd like to read back.

It is so obvious that the d... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

It is so obvious that the democratically controlled house and senate should be ashamed of itself for letting Walter Reed Hospital go down. Under their leadership, the neglect of oversight by the chairperson's of the respective committees should resign. Shameful display by the democrats. What pathetic leaders. ww

Like I said, the dems co... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Like I said, the dems controlled everything the first two years of the Clinton presidency.

Are we STILL talking about Clinton? Wasn't it Libby who was convicted today? Why are we talking about Clinton, who has nothing to do with this conviction.

You can talk about how bad Nixon was in comparison, or how Johnson gave us the Gulf of Tonkin. Maybe about how corrupt Warren Harding's administration was. You can talk about all these things and try to make comparisons and minimize the Libby case, but it's all sour grapes.

Scooter Libby is a criminal. He will get what he deserves. Anyone defending him at this point is naive fool - and there's NOTHING you ultra right-wing idiots can say that will make this go away.

Get with the program. Your beloved administration is made up of crooks and liars. The more you defend them, the stupider you look. And by the way -- I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be.

Let's stay on topic, folks.... (Below threshold)

Let's stay on topic, folks. This thread is about Libby's conviction, not the VA or military health care systems.

I love how the lefties tell... (Below threshold)
Jo:

I love how the lefties tell us not to talk about the Clinton administration anymore.

Uh, let's see, someone named Hillary Clinton is running for POTUS. I think talking about the Clinton administration and their crimes is VERY relevant, thank you very much.

Next.

"I'm not sure what you're t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here barney , cause all you're doing is proving my point that the $50 billion in defense cuts took away from all areas of military medical care, which was my original point if you'd like to read back." D-hogg

No you did not you liar:
Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000, effectively diverting funds from the VA to where it was needed more for troops in the field?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:09 PM

You did not say all areas of military care, you said "VA"

And then you wrote this?
"And the problem has been at outpatient VA facilities, not at the actual Walter Reed hospital barney."

You keep pointing to the VA, and my original post was:
"reating our wounded solders" not veterans!

Hee-Haw

"And by the way -- I'm righ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"And by the way -- I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be."
Posted by: hansel2

Typical childish lefty rant. "I'm right and you're wrong times infinity! Nanny nanny boo-boo (sticks tongue out while holding soiled diaper up)"

You're right Kim, we need t... (Below threshold)
Jo:

You're right Kim, we need to get back to the topic of this sham of a verdict.

That camera hogging juror who said Libby was the fall guy and what about the rest of the administration? just inadvertently revealed what this is all about.

Politics and 15 minutes of fame.

Yes barney, I said that VA ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Yes barney, I said that VA funds were diverted, because of defense cuts that hurt ALL areas. I forgot I had to spell it out. And you are the one that brought up walter reed which is why I responded to it. If this is all about Walter Reed like you say, then why is the entire VA hospital system being investigated?

D-Hoggs, lol. I think Hans... (Below threshold)
Jo:

D-Hoggs, lol. I think Hansel is a republican masquerading as a lib, b/c not even a lib would want to behave so immaturely in front of all of us.

What do you want to bet that the camera hogging juror is already dreaming about who will play him in the movie?

Forgot to spell it out agai... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Forgot to spell it out again for you barney, defense cuts means that the pentagon had to divert funds as well, get it yet?

Uh, let's see, someone n... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Uh, let's see, someone named Hillary Clinton is running for POTUS. I think talking about the Clinton administration and their crimes is VERY relevant, thank you very much.

Uh, not in this thread. This is about Libby being convicted. If you have some evidence that he didn't do what he was accused of doing, please provide it. Otherwise, trying to compare and contrast means nothing. Clinton is of no consequence on this subject and doesn't diminish Libby's crimes.

And as I said, if Clinton was thrown in jail for an identical crime, so be it. Doesn't diminish Libby's crime - and it doesn't make your rant any less desperate.

And what do you want to bet... (Below threshold)
Jo:

And what do you want to bet that the "we are private people and just want to be left alone" Joe Wilson is on every network and cable news show he can get on tonight?

And libs actually believe these kinds of people. lol.

I think Hansel is a repu... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

I think Hansel is a republican masquerading as a lib, b/c not even a lib would want to behave so immaturely in front of all of us.

Whether I'm republican or a democrat is of no consequence when someone commits a crime against this country and this democracy. Leave it to you, Jo, to ONLY see things in terms of black and white - and your party. That is why your posts are so nasty, self-absorbed and ultimately weak. Pathetic.

and it doesn't make your ra... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

and it doesn't make your rant any less desperate.
Posted by: hansel2 at March 6, 2007 03:24 PM

Desperate saaaay...like this?

"And by the way -- I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be."

Hansel, very funny coming f... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Hansel, very funny coming from the side that everytime we get news of a terrorist plot thwarted, turns the subject to "Bush did this to distract from (fill in the blank)......

Nice try. I still think you're doing a good job masquerading as a liberal idiot. (wink wink)

Forgot to spell it out agai... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Forgot to spell it out again for you barney, defense cuts means that the pentagon had to divert funds as well, get it yet?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 03:22 PM

You wrote:
"..effectively diverting funds from the VA"

You dumb-ass, the VA is not part of the Department of Defense. The budget for DOD does not effect the VA.

Stop digging Hee-Haw

D-Hoggs, lol.It's ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

D-Hoggs, lol.

It's fun messin' with 'em, ain't it? :)

Desperate saaaay...like ... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Desperate saaaay...like this? "And by the way -- I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be."

That's not desperate, Hoggs. That's confident certainty based on fact. Have you heard of facts? Probably not, if you're so in love with this criminal truth-distorter of a President.

Can you point to ONE time t... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Can you point to ONE time that I said the VA WAS part of the DOD barney? I think not. You have serious comprehension problems.

hansel, please give us evid... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

hansel, please give us evidence for your facts that you are right and people here will "always" be wrong on this. Thought so.

Libby's convicted. Committe... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Libby's convicted. Committed a crime against this country. That's a fact.

Arguing to diminish this crime, comparing it anything else and whining about how it doesn't matter - these are the wrong arguments.

Sorry if you don't understand the logic of this. Gotta get your head our of your arse to do so.

Umm, you said that the admi... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Umm, you said that the administration is made up of crooks and liars, and that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Sooooo, I'd like to see evidence that the administration is made up of crooks and liars, otherwise, you saying you are always right is NOT a fact. And no, links to kostastic BDS rants about cimpy mchalliburton are not evidence.

RE: Juror's statements </p... (Below threshold)
fireback:

RE: Juror's statements

It's so sad to read the ignorance from some people here. It was Libby's own attorney who suggested that Libby was the fall guy. He (Wells) was the one who brought up Rove, Armitage, etc.

Oops, I just fell for the classic Wingnut ploy. "It's not about the merrits of the trial, or truth, its about that evil juror". What else have I heard......Oh, yea...."Why didn't you care about Clinton????" and on and on and on.

You would think that a thinking person would ask "WHY WOULD LIBBY LIE". Then again, too self-reflective for you huh?

Can you point to ONE time t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Can you point to ONE time that I said the VA WAS part of the DOD barney? I think not. You have serious comprehension problems.

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 03:39 PM


How about here:
Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000, effectively diverting funds from the VA to where it was needed more for troops in the field?

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:09 PM


You wrote "defense budget" and "VA"

Hee-Haw

Hansel2 your rock is cal... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Hansel2 your rock is calling for you. Gets to crawling. You have zero credibility , you are a pathetiic liar and a retard. You are a failure as are the criminals you worship. Democrats attempted to smear Rove , Cheney and President Bush. There desparate attempt to Clintonize President Bush has once again failed.

How many dozens of personal friends and business partners of the Clintons were convicted or sitting in prison 6 years into his Presidencey?

DEMOCRATS CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH ANYTHING. THEY CANNOT EVEN BE TRUSTED WITH CITIZENSHIP.

DEMOCRATS DESERVE TO BANISHED FROM THIS COUNTRY AND THAT'S A FACT. SORRY NO RE-INVENTING ALLOWED.

Uhhh, barney, see the word ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Uhhh, barney, see the word "effectively" there? That means that defense budget cuts also AFFECTED the VA. In no way did I ever say the VA was a part of the DOD. If you honestly don't think that the VA system and the DOD collaborate, then you are denser than I thought. Defense funds being cut, IN EFFECT, took away from some of that collaboration. What don't you understand about this?! Fucking hee-haw. That is really frigging lame by the way.

Sooooo, I'd like to see ... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Sooooo, I'd like to see evidence that the administration is made up of crooks and liars

This is real simple:

Libby - crook

Now, as far as liars -- well, if you believe everything Bush, Cheney and the rest of the administration has told you regarding WMD, insurgency in its last throes and about a half a dozen other falsehoods, then you're too far gone to discuss these kind of issues with. Really, I don't need to make a case here - it's all out there every day - unbiased. Most of this country understands this. People like you somehow put your fingers in your ears and insist these guys are honest, decent and functioning in your best interest.

And, you know, I get no joy out of being right about this - like everyone else in the country with a conscience doesn't as well. There is no joy knowing your government is destroying the ideal of a democracy that you're old enough to have seen working well before. Not an ounce of joy to know that people are using their power for selfish reasons. And yes, lots of these guys have done it in the past - and, as I mentioned earlier, I condemn them also.

As far as your concerned, live in your delusional world - and assume most of the country is wrong and you're right - if you need that to sleep well at night.

" Really, I don't need to m... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

" Really, I don't need to make a case here - it's all out there every day - unbiased."

Hahahaha! Classic. Still don't see any EVIDENCE that this administration is made of crooks and liars hansel. Keep on claiming you are right about everything without providing any evidence, it really gives you a lot of credibilty.

BJ Clinton , Master of t... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

BJ Clinton , Master of the Democrat Religion "Committed a crime against this country. That's a fact."

And you still defend the felonious piece of garbage. Democrats are criminal sacks of garbage that need to be expelled from this Country.

I think most of the wingers... (Below threshold)
fireback:

I think most of the wingers here are actually quite consistent - Loyal to a fault like their leader.

Bush - loyal to Rumsfeld right into disaster in Iraq.
Bush - loyal to Cheney even after his total misjudgement (i.e. lies).
Bush - loyal to Libby even as he is found guilty of 4 felonies.

HMMMM, reminds me of something................Oh yea....the followers of Jim Jones.

Sip your punch wingnuts!

D-Hogg, why would you menti... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

D-Hogg, why would you mention the VA at all if you were discussing the DoD. How does a cut (hypothetically) to the VA have any bearing on the quality of care at Walter Reed.

Are you pulling the Wookie Defense?

Why did you write this:
And the problem has been at outpatient VA facilities, not at the actual Walter Reed hospital barney. Brilliant yourself there buddy.

Posted by: D-Hoggs at March 6, 2007 02:25 PM

My comment was always about activity duty treatment at Walter Reed. You brought up VA care at Walter Reed, then tried to link it to DoD funding and then VA funding, back to DoD and now back again to VA?

Besides, Republicans controlled the budge from '95 to '07, so if funding was cut, it was cut by troop hating republicans.

Hee-Haw

Want links? There's loads o... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Want links? There's loads of them. And this is just from a quick search.

Here

Here

Really. What does it matter. I can come up with dozens of these articles. And no matter, the validity, you'll never believe what's right in front of your eyes. I could show you the NIE which says the opposite of what Cheney did, but I'm sure you'll find some paper thin way to refute it.

Your failing. Not mine.

As far as your con... (Below threshold)
Dan Irving:
As far as your concerned, live in your delusional world - and assume most of the country is wrong and you're right - if you need that to sleep well at night. Posted by: hansel2 at March 6, 2007 04:08 PM
I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be. Posted by: hansel2 at March 6, 2007 03:05 PM

eh?

I mentioned the VA barney b... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

I mentioned the VA barney because YOU brought up the current issue, and the current issue is investigating not just Walter Reed but the entire VA system as well! My point has always been that defense cuts would hurt both. It blows my mind that you can't understand this. Though I shouldn't expect you too having read too many of your posts around here.

And you're right, Republicans were in from '95-'97, but Clinton's defense budget plan came in '93, also, the congress added about $50 billion to the Clinton Administration's defense budget requests from 1996-01. All that is besides the point as MY point was that if the liberals are allowed to blame everything that happens during the term of the Bush administration on Bush, then, whats good for the goose....

"There is no joy knowing ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"There is no joy knowing your government is destroying the ideal of a democracy that you're old enough to have seen working well before. Not an ounce of joy to know that people are using their power for selfish reasons."

I want to hear you say these words.

"The Clinton Administration has lied and failed our Country. Their incompetance and corruption was widespread and there no telling how long we will be paying the price for 8 years of'THE CLINTONS'."

If not, STFU. You have nothing to say about anything. In fact , if your words I quoted above were not meant to apply to Clinton Administration , provide some evidence why it shouldn't.

You've got to be kidding me... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

You've got to be kidding me hansel. Though sadly I know you're not. If the lies talked about in your links are attributable to the Bush Administration, then they are attributable to every democrat that used the SAME intelligence, as well as the Clinton Administration which said all the same things. By the way, I am right on this and you are wrong, and always will be, NANANAANANANANANA!!!!

"Not an ounce of joy to kno... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"Not an ounce of joy to know that people are using their power for selfish reasons."

Is using your power to get a blow job in the oval office a selfish reason?

Is using your power to pardon a bunch of your criminal friends a selfish reason?

DEMOCRATS DESERVE TO BAN... (Below threshold)
mantis:

DEMOCRATS DESERVE TO BANISHED FROM THIS COUNTRY AND THAT'S A FACT.

For giggles, tell us how you propose to do this, Rob, and under what authority?

maggy'-sniff sniff-does it ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

maggy'-sniff sniff-does it smell like a dirty "sock" -(take your meds) -who does that remind you of? p'p'? Notice he or her was not around? Shuueee.

Guilty. SO WHAT? The sun will up tomorrow just like it was today. Oh the shame of it. Millions of $,s spent so the poor old moonbats could bay like jackasses. But in the end it will not amount to a hill of beans.

Rob,Did I mention ... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Rob,

Did I mention Clinton? No. But you do -- incessantly. Reagan held this country together nicely - and gave the U.S. it's pride and gravitas back that it lost through Vietnam and the Carter Iran debacle.

But no. Not you. Keep believing Clinton is the ONLY President worthy of ridicule. Live in your little bubble. Didn't you tell all of us you were ignorant of politics until that last Presidential election? That's unforgivable and embarrassing for an adult.

You're a fool and you drone on about the same friggin things over and over and over again. Thats what uneducated, concrete thinkers do. And you sound like a raving maniac doing it. And you're nasty on top of it.

DEMOCRATS DESERVE TO BANISH... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

DEMOCRATS DESERVE TO BANISHED FROM THIS COUNTRY AND THAT'S A FACT.

For giggles, tell us how you propose to do this, Rob, and under what authority?
Posted by: mantis

---------------------

Make showers a legal obligation.

"You're a fool and you dron... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"You're a fool and you drone on about the same friggin things over and over and over again. Thats what uneducated, concrete thinkers do. And you sound like a raving maniac doing it. And you're nasty on top of it."

You mean like droning on about chimpy mchitler being a stupid liar poopy pants?

Once again, Hoggs, where is... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Once again, Hoggs, where is the evidence that Libby is not a criminal. You have so many words for the democrats, especially a President who's been out of office for 6 years.

Why not explain how you can defend Libby. He is the subject of this thread. He's the criminal who matters today. No one else. The people in office right now are the one's in power. No one else. You can't have it both ways.

Make showers a legal obl... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Make showers a legal obligation.

I get it, because Democrats are all dirty hippies, right? So witty. And original, too. Do you write for Dennis Miller?

Anyway, still curious how Rob wants to accomplish the great Purge o' the Democrats.

No, no, hansel, YOU are the... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

No, no, hansel, YOU are the one that condemned the entire administration. I didn't defend Libby. I am asking where your evidence is that the Bush administration as a whole are crooks and liars. That's what YOU said, and I want proof. Otherwise, stop running around like a fucking 5 year old, declaring "I am always right and you are always wrong".

"Republicans were in from '... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Republicans were in from '95-'97, but Clinton's defense budget plan came in '93, also, the congress added about $50 billion to the Clinton Administration's defense budget requests from 1996-01. " by D-hogg

Where to start?
1) I said '95 to '07 not '95 to '97
2) You first said "my point that the $50 billion in defense cuts took.." Now you are saying : "congress added about $50 billion"

So what is it? Did the Democrats or Republicans cut $50-billion, and did the $50-billion that was not cut, because it was added, hurt the VA and DoD because the $50-billion was cut before it was added?

Could you please make up your mind?

Hee-Haw

You said "for giggles" mant... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

You said "for giggles" mantis. How about...having Bush declare that he, and God, wants us to procreate? Or wait, wait, we could just make Christmas a federal holi...oh, wait...

You are seriously mentally ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

You are seriously mentally deficient barney. I can't help you understand how defense budget cuts would also affect the VA. I don't think anyone can help you understand anything.

You said "for giggles" m... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You said "for giggles" mantis.

I meant it would be amusing for me to see how Rob sees the GPoD proceeding, but if you want to use the opportunity to trot out some tired-ass jokes, far be it from me to try and stop you.

I am asking where your e... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

I am asking where your evidence is that the Bush administration as a whole are crooks and liars.

Lots of people in an administration, but like any company the precedent of how others behave is influenced from the top.

No, not everyone in the administration is a liar. I'm sure there are many decent people who just want to do good. But they are not the one's with the most power, so lets amend that - Bush and Cheney are the liars. Maybe others, but right now just them.

Clearer? And I'm not "right" about everything in this world. Hardly. But like most of the country, I'm right about this -- they are liars and Scooter Libby is a crook. And they're in power right now. And that is what's important. And if Libby feels he had to lie about this - why? Do you think it's a single, isolated self-centered act? If you do, you're a fool. He was covering up, clear as day.

Oh good mantis. In that cas... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Oh good mantis. In that case I have another one, how about we actually let the troops win in Iraq and watch the dems. collective heads explode?!

Wait a minute hansel, you s... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Wait a minute hansel, you said, "Get with the program. Your beloved administration is made up of crooks and liars. The more you defend them, the stupider you look. And by the way -- I'm right and you're wrong on this - and you always will be."

Are you now saying that our beloved administration is NOT made up of crooks and liars?

Semantics. How about answer... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

Semantics. How about answering my question.

Oh good mantis. In that ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oh good mantis. In that case I have another one, how about we actually let the troops win in Iraq and watch the dems. collective heads explode?!

Not quite as funny that time, but ok. Three questions:

1) Have the troops been hindered from "winning" in any way since "major combat operations" ended?
2) What do you define as "winning?"
3) How long will it take to "let the troops win," approximately?

No, not semantics at all, y... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

No, not semantics at all, you said the Bush administration is MADE UP of liars and crooks, now you say just Bush and Cheney, which is it, it does make a difference.

How many does "made up" imp... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

How many does "made up" imply? Bush, Cheney, Libby. Dan Bartlett was on TV lying about WMD's a the same time Bush and Cheney were selling the war. Rove lied in court, then thought better of it and "recalled" a bit more. Rumsfeld told us he "knew" where the weapons were. How many do you think constitutes "made up?"

Does THAT make a difference? Lets say it doesn't. Are you fine with there just being 3 liars at the top of the the President's administration? If so, why?

"how defense budget cuts wo... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"how defense budget cuts would also affect the VA." d-hogg

Cuts? You just wrote added:
"also, the congress added about $50 billion" d-hogg

Please explain how adding $50-billion to the DoD is a cut in the defense budget?

Also how does the budget for DoD affect the VA? The VA and DoD are two independent departments. Does cutting defense mean that Agriculture gets cut or Transportation.

Do you know anything about the structure of government?

I warned you to stop making an ass out of yourself long ago, but you would not listen.

Barney you are friggin reta... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Barney you are friggin retarded, adding a small amount to a larger cut is still a cut. What don't you understand about that? The VA and the DOD collaborate on many issues, when defense funding is cut, that can affect that collaboration to the detriment of both parties, for example, what the hell don't you understand about that?! Talk about an ass.

And since you ask, "Does cu... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

And since you ask, "Does cutting defense mean that Agriculture gets cut or Transportation." I suppose you've never heard of the DOD/DOT joint task force? I suppose a defense cut doesn't affect things like that. Do YOU know anything about the structure and sharing of responsibilites of government?! For god's sake you're dense.

"Really. What d... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"Really. What does it matter. I can come up with dozens of these articles. And no matter, the validity, you'll never believe what's right in front of your eyes."

"Dozens of articles" written by BIASED PEOPLE (not reporters) who vote and support democrats.

Yet ..."you'll never believe what's right in front of your eyes."

My favorite are the words coming straight out the horses ass on video, you can see and hear the Democrats LIE.

Yet ..."you'll never believe what's right in front of your eyes."

The Democrats have become a "CRIMINAL PARTY OF PERPETUAL FRAUD".

"I can come up with dozens of these articles"

Of Course you can. Democrats are liars and criminal frauds. 90% of the MSM voted for Al Gore in 2000 and have not stopped crying or lying ever since.

And yet ..."you'll never believe what's right in front of your eyes."

Why do Democrats suffer from "BUSH DERANGEMENT SYNDROME"?

It helps them cope with the permanent shitstain on their Party called "THE CLINTONS". BDS is nothing mopre than the Democrats attempting to "CLINTONIZE" President Bush and his Administration. What these criminal frauds purposely ignore is that they are a shitstain to our Country. This a fact and they know it and they cannot undo what is done although they do the best to destroy as much evidence as possible in attempts to rewrite history. The only other solution for the Rats is to try and "create an illusion" that there exists another shitstain, desparate for Americans to forget the crimes of one BJ CLINTON.

The Democrat Perpetual Fraud , has there ever been a more "COMPREHENSIVE" "ALL ENCOMPASSING" effort put forth by the Democrats in History?

I think not. Nothing pleases criminals like the Democrats than getting something for nothing or getting away with taking ones position away from another person by fraudulent means.

DEMOCRATS BASK IN THEIR ILL GOTTEN GAINS AND THAT'S A FACT.

"How many does "made up" im... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"How many does "made up" imply?"

I don't know hansel, YOU are the one that said the administration is MADE UP of crooks and liars, so you tell me, is it the administration or are you recanting and saying it is a select few?

If we could just do away wi... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

If we could just do away with the damn jury system!
Both sides presented a case. Fitz claimed Libby knowingly lied to the Grand Jury. The defense argued "he simply forgot". The jury took a long time to figure this out. They were persuaded by the evidence presented by both sides..
The comparison to a black in Alabama is pitiful..in Alabama the jury would have returned in an hour..

We can all come up with people who should be on trial..but that still does not take away the FACT that Mr. Libby was found guilty of lying to a grand jury.
Remember what Fitz said about the "cloud" in reference to Cheney. It was not the Dems that picked Fitz...
I am not gloating about this..I am ashamed that the chief-of-staff of the Vice-President of our nation would hold something as basic as a grand jury in contempt.

"Barney you are friggin ret... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Barney you are friggin retarded, adding a small amount to a larger cut is still a cut." d-hogg

First you wrote:
"Barney, who was it that cut the defense budget by $50 billion between 1992 and 2000?" d-hogg

Then you wrote:
"the congress added about $50 billion to the Clinton Administration's defense budget requests from 1996-01."

So, which is the smaller amount, the $50-billion they cut or the $50-billion they added?

Hee-Haw

Good god barney. In '92 cli... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Good god barney. In '92 clinton proposed $120 billion dollar cut, just another broken campaign promise by the way. Congress was able to add $50 billion to the Clinton Administration's defense budget requests over the FY 1996-01 period that you mentioned. Which still means that between 1992 and 2000, the Clinton Administration cut national defense by more than half a million personnel and $50 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars. Do you understand any of this now? Now can you answer my other question...

And since you ask, "Does cutting defense mean that Agriculture gets cut or Transportation." I suppose you've never heard of the DOD/DOT joint task force? I suppose a defense cut doesn't affect things like that. Do YOU know anything about the structure and sharing of responsibilites of government?!

HEE-HAW!!

Same lame Plame blame name ... (Below threshold)

Same lame Plame blame name game.

Mantis, my suggestion is th... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Mantis, my suggestion is that we take up arms and drive you treasonous bastards into the sea. Should be easy as you seem to be concentrated on both coasts. A victory is guaranteed as most of you would not fight for anything.

It was Bush that failed to ... (Below threshold)
jpe:

It was Bush that failed to prosecute Berger. If any of you were smarter than a ham sandwich, you would've been mad at him for failing to indict Berger like a....ham sandwich.

Mantis, my suggestion is... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Mantis, my suggestion is that we take up arms and drive you treasonous bastards into the sea. Should be easy as you seem to be concentrated on both coasts. A victory is guaranteed as most of you would not fight for anything.

I don't think people get driven into the sea much anymore, but ok.

But I don't think you've thought the logistics through. Maybe Rob has a more realistic proposal.

"It was Bush that failed... (Below threshold)
Lee:

"It was Bush that failed to prosecute Berger. If any of you were smarter than a ham sandwich, you would've been mad at him for failing to indict Berger like a....ham sandwich."

Great line, jpe. Funny! Rye bread is much more intelligent that wheat or white, I'm sure. lol

Berger was prosecuted. He ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Berger was prosecuted. He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor "unauthorized removal and retention of classified material" and got a slap on the wrists.

The Democrats have becom... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

The Democrats have become a "CRIMINAL PARTY OF PERPETUAL FRAUD".

You know, Rob, you're hopeless. Instead of addressing anything having to do with this post, you're doing the same lame thing you obviously ONLY know how to do.

You can't argue about the issue - Libby being a criminal - so you do the same "Clinton this, Clinton that" whine. Do you know how lame that is, dude?

I argued with even commenting on this since it's become ridiculous and pathetic. But maybe that's it. You're just not smart enough, or insightful enough, to know how shallow, prejudice and lame you sound in each and every post.

Your opinions, by the way, are not fact. And just because an article doesn't agree with you doesn't mean it's a lie. How about this. Show me a valid link to something about Scooter Libby that proves him innocent. Can you do that? Doubtful. You'll just scream like a moron and make a spectacle of yourself - and provide no substance whatsoever. What else is new.

What will you liberals do w... (Below threshold)
Metprof:

What will you liberals do when an out-of-control prosecutor (with more power and authority than has ever been granted to an independent counsel) comes after you.

The issue is that one man, with the authority Fitzpatrick had, can destroy ANYONE, as he sees fit.

Now that's frightening and not what our founders had in mind I'll bet.

Hey old p'p' is back under ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey old p'p' is back under his usual name. How about that. No "maggy" now.

I find Lee's last comment t... (Below threshold)

I find Lee's last comment to be racially insensitive.

Hansel2, You ... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Hansel2,

You have no fucken idea who I am , what I know or where I,ve been. You in fact know less than nothing , if you knew that you didn't know shit that would be something , you don't even know that. You really think I give a rats ass about Scooter Libby personally? I know more about your character than I do his , he is neither a friend or a relative and nor are you.

"Show me a valid link to something about Scooter Libby that proves him innocent."

And what purpose would that serve?

"Send me a link that proves to be able see air"

LOL, What the heck is a "Valid" link? Let me guess , that remains to be determined. Like it basically depends on what the meaning of "IS" is , correct?

Oh and one more thing ignoramous , when have I ever claimed to have an interest in either Libby's guilt or innocence?

"You can't argue about the issue - Libby being a criminal"

Shit man he's only been given passage to walk with the democrats for about 6 hours now. The issue is now what? because it makes democrats feel good , that Libby has been labeled a Criminal? Do they expect him to join them now or what?

What was the issue to begin with ? Do you even remember? Of course you don't it started with the democrats number one tactic for political survival. Divert ,distort deny and deceive. You losers went after Carl Rove and had wet dreams every night of getting Vice-President Dick Cheney who on any given day puts you over his knee and spanks the shit out of you and Piglosi's judgement. Newsflash , YOU FAILED!

As far as Clinton is concerned. You just can't stand the fact that BJ Clinton is a convicted Felon , a liar ,comitted perjury , an accused rapist , Impeached and a no good criminal POS that lost the criminal democrat Party their "Feel Good" Majority. Did I mention he lied under oath in front of the entire planet , galaxy and Universe? Pretty embarrassing issn't it?

"The more you defend them, the stupider you look"

Isn't this what it is really about? Do you think you are really smart enough to defend your party of criminals? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

I said: "You can't argue ab... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

I said: "You can't argue about the issue - Libby being a criminal - so you do the same "Clinton this, Clinton that" whine. Do you know how lame that is, dude?"

and ask you to "Show me a valid link to something about Scooter Libby that proves him innocent."

and, in response, you retort with:

As far as Clinton is concerned. You just can't stand the fact that BJ Clinton is a convicted Felon , a liar ,comitted perjury , an accused rapist , Impeached and a no good criminal POS that lost the criminal democrat Party their "Feel Good" Majority. Did I mention he lied under oath in front of the entire planet , galaxy and Universe? Pretty embarrassing issn't it?


So, regarding your latest "post", what you're saying, Rob, is you ARE going to spout the same lame garbage you always do - and prove yourself to be exactly the person I pointed out.

Sad. Get professional help.

"What was the issue to begi... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"What was the issue to begin with ? Do you even remember? Of course you don't it started with the democrats number one tactic for political survival. Divert ,distort deny and deceive. You losers went after Carl Rove and had wet dreams every night of getting Vice-President Dick Cheney who on any given day puts you over his knee and spanks the shit out of you and Piglosi's judgement. Newsflash , YOU FAILED!"

This is the only thing worthy of discussion. Your failed attempt to take down Rove and Cheney. What's next for the criminal democrats? Who are you going to cry and lie about next losers?

You losers went after Ca... (Below threshold)
hansel2:

You losers went after Carl Rove and had wet dreams every night of getting Vice-President Dick Cheney who on any given day puts you over his knee and spanks the shit out of you and Piglosi's judgement. Newsflash , YOU FAILED!"

Garbage in, garbage out. Yeah, Rob. Sorry. I don't see crimes against the country as a game of cheering winners and losers. If you do, you're immature - but that's pretty obvious.

As I alluded to in my previous post, you can only scream like a moron and make a spectacle of yourself. You have no ability to debate in an intelligent manner. You have nothing of worth to contribute here. You are a joke - and I'm sure deep down you know that.

In the meantime, your heroes will go down in history as the worst bunch to ever occupy the white house - and cheerleaders like yourself? Well, in a future social studies class, when the actions of people like yourself are scrutinized and students ask, "Why were these people so gullible and easily manipulated?", the answer will be, "Because they were scared little lambs who would do anything to feel safe."




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