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Girls will be boys and boys will be girls

Almost every day advances in technology challenge existing laws and strictures. This is especially true in medical matters, where the "rules" change faster than lawmakers can even hope to keep up.

For example, in Florida, a couple got divorced a while ago. The husband agreed to pay alimony until the wife either remarried or died. Neither has happened, but the guy wants off the hook anyway -- because his ex-wife isn't quite the woman she used to be.

In fact, she's not a woman at all any more.

Lawrence didn't mind too much cutting the monthly check to Julia, but now he's not willing to do the same for Julio.

I have to admit I have absolutely no idea where I stand on the issue. Julio is still, legally, the same person as Julia, who is entitled to the checks. But practically speaking, the shedding of the female identity and assumption of the masculine one should involve cutting all such ties -- and a monthly check reminding Julio of Julia's marriage to a man should be something that Julio should make a forceful point of rejecting. (Damn, avoiding gender-specific pronouns can be a bear at times.)

It's been said that tough cases make for bad laws, but they make for GREAT entertainment.


Comments (27)

It's obvious that Lawrence'... (Below threshold)
dalleceneri:

It's obvious that Lawrence's real problem is that he's a homophobe.

Legally, it matters not whe... (Below threshold)
langtry:

Legally, it matters not whether Lawrence Roach, as asserted by dalleceneri, is "a homophobe". The issue is worth considering simply because, in changing her sex from female to male, "Julia" no longer exists: changing her/his name from "Julia Roach" to Julio Roberto Silverwolf serves to further eliminate the existence of Lawrence Roach's ex-wife. I agree with Jay Tea that ethics and principle would require Julio to end the alimony agreement.

The key thing is that, legally, Julia Roach doesn't exist. Should Lawrence Roach have to pay Alimony to someone who, for all effect and purpose, no longer exists in a legal sense? As Transgendered people become more (for lack of a better -- and less ironic -- expression) "mainstream", the issue is worth the court's consideration.

I agree with langtry.... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I agree with langtry.

A question for a lawyer, or... (Below threshold)
Dave A.:

A question for a lawyer, or better yet, a banker: If Lawrence Roach continues to write alimony checks payable to Julia Roach, can Julio Silverwolf cash them?

Dave A. -- That's exactly w... (Below threshold)
ijosha:

Dave A. -- That's exactly where I was going to go. I was going to suggest that Larry make the payments to a "Ms. Julia Roach" (note the "Ms."). and see where that ends up...

HOMOPHOBE! HOMOPHOBE! HOMOP... (Below threshold)
piledriver:

HOMOPHOBE! HOMOPHOBE! HOMOPHOBE!

(another message brought to you from the tolerant left)

Meanwhile, some lawyer some... (Below threshold)
Mikey60:

Meanwhile, some lawyer somewhere will be getting rich off of all of them. Ain't the legal system wonderful (for attornies)? John Edwards will be in need of clients soon.....

Good points, DaveA & ijosha... (Below threshold)
langtry:

Good points, DaveA & ijosha. As someone who worked as a Teller while in college, I can be pretty certain that Julio Roberto Silverwolf would not be allowed to cash checks in the name of "Julia Roach".

Also, another thing came to mind after I posted: is Julio Roberto a fan of Julia Roberts or what? IMO, choosing the surname "Silverwolf" is clue #2 that Julio is a flake.

In a similar vein. . . ... (Below threshold)
engineer:

In a similar vein. . .

In a heterosexual marriage, when there is a divorce, the wife gets alimony (except in rare instances). Who in a Massachusetts gay marriage gets alimony after a divorce?

I don't think this really m... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

I don't think this really matters. This PERSON was awarded alimony on the basis of the legal relationship between the two people, not on their relative genatalia. If Julia became Julio, this is still the same person. Otherwise, you'd have situations where someone could enter into all sorts of contracts and then be able to declare them all void just because he or she had a sex-change operation.

Julio is still, legally,... (Below threshold)
ryan the filthy centrist:

Julio is still, legally, the same person as Julia, who is entitled to the checks.

There is your answer, Jay. It's actually not all that compicated. It's the same person, with the same right to alimony.

Now, I can understand your point about this person wanting to cut all ties from the marriage, but that's more of a personal choice than it is a legal matter.

Ah ryan, I see you... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Ah ryan,

I see you adopted my title. Glad to know I didn't have to shoot you in the face after all ;P

Jay,

I find that when referring to people like Julio, it's best to use the term (S)he.

Julio is still the same per... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Julio is still the same person and is entitled to his checks -- a "sex change" operation doesn't really change your sex. Your birth certificate does not get amended.

If you don't side with Julio in this case he could legally get married to a woman and then you would be allowing the dreaded SAME SEX MARRIAGE!!! (and that would be the end of civilization as we know it).

Since Florida law does not ... (Below threshold)
Cloudfish:

Since Florida law does not recognize a sex change when it comes to marriage, (the new) Mr(s). Silverwolf has guaranteed him(her)self payments until death.

Mr. Roach agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife dies or remarries. At least there was a chance to remarry--but no more.

Another unthought of proble... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Another unthought of problem from the sexual deviancy crowd. Give her the money. I don't care. ww

who cares?... (Below threshold)
pretzel_logic:

who cares?

wrong thread-sorry... (Below threshold)
pretzel_logic:

wrong thread-sorry

I've never understood the n... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

I've never understood the notion of "You have to pay your ex wife forever because she's too lazy to get a job" it's not like when you marry you somehow lose the ability earn your own money.

No problem. Here's... (Below threshold)

No problem.

Here's the plan for Lawrence:

1. Move to New York.

2. Declare yourself female. You don't even need an operation to do this. Your new name could be Lawrencia.

3. HAve your lawyer go to court

4. Tell the judge that Julio should stop getting alimony from this "woman"

5. Have judge terminate alimony.

6. Have your lawyer ask the judge to order Julio to pay alimony to Lawrencia. He's a man. It's time for him to live up to his responsibility.

I would want to know why sh... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

I would want to know why she/he was awarded alimony in the first place.
Was she unable to go out and support herself, and was that because of the marriage (as opposed to having been helpless before the wedding)? Were their kids she was in charge of? Or was it simply a case of the woman getting the award due to social inertia? I know 2 guys that make less than their ex-wives, but a judge still said they must pay alimony.
Anyway, depending on why the guy was paying the alimony, it may be relevent that his ex is now sporting after market parts.

heralder,hahaha. ... (Below threshold)
ryan the filthy centrist:

heralder,

hahaha. that was the funniest thing ive read in a while, so i had to co-opt the title. hope you dont mind; i like it.

and thanks again for keeping the shotgun under wraps, at least until i fly off into another one of my middle of the road, fence sitting, undecided, wishy-washy, relativist, cant-we-all-just-get-along, centrist tirades.

Historically alimony made s... (Below threshold)

Historically alimony made sense and it *might* still make sense in some cases. Did she quit college to be married? Pass up developing her career to be married? Child support is essential. Former-wife support, not so much.

But, as SCSIwuzzy mentions in passing, men pay alimony to women, they don't get *paid* alimony. As a man, Julio would probably not have ever received any sort of alimony award even if he was making far less money than his former spouse.

There have been cases of me... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

There have been cases of men receiving alimony from their ex wives, they're extremely rare though.

And apparently there was a similar case in ohio where the judge and the appelate court found that a sex-change doesn't constitute a big enough change in circumstances to break the alimony agreement.

I've always thought we shou... (Below threshold)
starboardhelm:

I've always thought we should use "she-he-it" for gender blenders. Say it real fast. Contraction: shi't.

You're looking for great en... (Below threshold)
Anon Y. Mous:

You're looking for great entertainment? Has anyone checked with Ann Coulter? This could be a lot of fun.

Does this mean if you had a... (Below threshold)

Does this mean if you had a sex change operation you could cancel your debt, because the person that owed it no longer actually existed?


Sounds like quite a legal conundrum.

Pay the dude.

You're looking for great... (Below threshold)

You're looking for great entertainment? Has anyone checked with Ann Coulter? This could be a lot of fun.

Check with her to see if she's gonna call someone a f----- again? or because she looks somewhat man-ish?




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