And I doubt he took them to a Cuban hospital, but probably to one of the ones used by tourists.

"But the sick sojourn, which some say uses ill 9/11 workers as pawns, has angered many in the responder community."

Doesn't Moore know that kidnapping and dragging these workers to Cuba is not going to help his cause at all? What? You mean they went willingly, actually were happy to go? What's the problem here?

From the linked article:

Some called the trip a success, at least logistics-wise.

"From what I heard through the grapevine, those people that went are utterly happy," said John Feal, who runs the Fealgood Foundation to help raise money for responders and was approached by Moore to find responders willing to take the trip.

"They got the Elvis treatment."

Oh, that explains it - the problem is that Moore was apparently successful in getting help for these heroes.

Damn, right on cue Lee...you know, I work in healthcare and would never trade this country for Cuba and I think a lot of people would agree.

I wonder if they got to see the abject poverty, the sorry state of infrastructure and the dilapidated historical buildings while they were there? I wonder if their were any Cubans shunted aside for this publicity stunt?

VW

Via Drudge? -- then you can take it with a grain of salt. Was Michael Ware present, giggling?

took ailing Ground Zero responders to Cuba

He kidnapped those people and took them to Cuba against their will?! That's awful.

Of course, if they chose to go, that would be different...BTW, how did our healthcare system treat those people?

"I work in healthcare and would never trade this country for Cuba and I think a lot of people would agree"

Count me among them, Steve. I recently spent four days in the hospital and the bill amounted to just over $150,000. I received excellent care, and my portion of the final bill was a $50 co-pay. I wouldn't trade what I have here for the free care in Cuba.

Fact is, however, that the the Cuban health care system has going through some recent improvements, and according to the article:

Responders were told Cuban doctors had developed new techniques for treating lung cancer and other respiratory illness, and that health care in the communist country was free, according to those offered the two-week February trip.

Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its cancer treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year, according to The Associated Press.

In 2004 the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana, according to the AP.

One of the "disgruntled" workers quoted in the article was disgruntled because he was interviewed by the Moore production company and told he could go, but then was left behind and not taken when the trip to Cuba actually happened.

Solid advances in Cuban health care, 9/11 workers who received the "Elvis treatment", and "disgruntled workers" who are unhappy because they didn't get to go? DAMN THAT MICHAEL MOORE!

Lorie's Liberal Derangement Syndrome is out of control.

Follow up question: which is a less reliable source of "information", Drudge or the NY Post? (I understand they used the front page today to heckle the seriously injured governor of NJ today; sharp.).

Lee:

Oh, that explains it - the problem is that Moore was apparently successful in getting help for these heroes.

Fidel was successful in getting help also. But not via his own dilapidated system it was via a Spanish doctor flown in just for "his highness." And not just any riff-raff doctor, he was Jose Luis Garcma Sabrido, a chief surgeon at a Madrid hospital.

Lee, here's what you are pitifully trying to defend in the words and images provided by a Cuban
and not one of Fidels or Raul's sycophants. (I'm lookin' at YOU MM!)

Does anyone (excluding lee cause i alreadyknow his answer) actually think these people would have received "elvis treatment" if there wasn't a free propaganda piece in it for Cuber and Castro? I bet those people wouldn't be allowed in the country, or if they were they would be chucked into prison for illegal immigration if moore wasn't following with video cameras trying to make money off of someone elses pain.

Adrian Browne

Via Drudge? -- then you can take it with a grain of salt. Was Michael Ware present, giggling?

Not sure about Michael Ware (not that it matters he's not the topic) but there are more than a few laughing at you for your knee-jerk reaction to seeing an, OMG a drudge link, and ignoring the NYP link that IS the one that details to story.

"Nice" job, and thinks for the "giggles."

Having been to Cuba legally, and having seen parts of their health care system as an observer and as a patient I can say it is a very good system for a developing 3rd world country, but it is no where near the capability and capacity of the US system.

It is low cost because there are no salaries for the professionals, no lawsuits, lower levels of technology, etc... The result is a system that is good at primary care with limits on specialized/advanced care.

Moore is just another disingenuous liberal fatty that would do and say anything to get what he wants to force down other people's throats.

There have been many, many documentaries of people going to Cuba for better health care in comparison to the US.

Why this stunt is different?

Because he is fat.

The NY Post = The National Enquirer

Matt Drudge = Weekly World News

Publicus

Follow up question: which is a less reliable source of "information", Drudge or the NY Post? (I understand they used the front page today to heckle the seriously injured governor of NJ today; sharp.).

Following your "follow up," which is more reliable Drudge, the NYP or Michael Moore's own website?

jp2

There have been many, many documentaries of people going to Cuba for better health care in comparison to the US. Why this stunt is different?
Because he is fat.

Name them, let us judge them for ourselves.

His stunt isn't criticized because he's FAT (although factually he is, maybe he should have gotten a liposuction while there) it's because of the factually devoid 9/11 flic.

Adrian Browne

The NY Post = The National Enquirer

Matt Drudge = Weekly World News

Adrian Browne = Disingenuous Daily Herald

We could probably fix a lot of the problems in the system by eliminating the "right to sue" the medical system. Almost everyone who goes overseas for medical care has to sign away that "right" before they can be treated. Thousands of people do it every month. They would rather support the medical profession in Thailand or Mexico than the lawsuit industry in the USA. It will be interesting to see how many half truths and lies Michael is able to squeeze into this future Oscar winner.

marc:

Check out bloodletting, salud. Lots more. Lots of news documentaries about the differences as well. I think Moore did one earlier in his career on TV nation. He's been making the comparisons for a decade.

I'm not sure you should be making fun of fat people though - some of the people on this site are overweight and they might take offense.

The question that needs to be aasked is, didd they go to the same hospital that everyone else uses, or the one Castro and state officials go to.

Any moron would know the two are not same. But that is Moore's style: Be an asshole while being a liar to boot. Let's review his Greatest Hits

1. Of course Farenhiet 9/11 was a campaign hit piece. Moore is the master of the voice over and cut clip, showing a scene but playing audio that did not occur with the scene. This was the case of Moore playing a preceding scene relating to "terrorism" the showing Bush on the golf course, impying that after the US was attacked by terrorists, Bush was smiling playing golf. But a review of the whole scene reveals that Bush was answering a question about Palestanian suicide bomber killing Israelis in a market a few days earlier.

Then there is the Bush and My Pet Goat sequence, which implies Bush was some dolt paralyzed by fear. Well you know what, that's a pretty understandable reaction. Particualrly since he was in a room full of kids. The teacher also remarked how she was impressed with with how calm Bush was able to remain.

Who can forget the Uno-Cal and Enron references, but the failure to note Uno-Cal's presence in Afghanastain occured during the Clinton administration (1995), or that Enron donated 100K to the Democratic party after Clinton secured a $25 Million bribe, I mean gift to India for an Enron plant in that country.

Also not mentioned was Clinton's Treasury man Richard Rubin (and Clinton for that matter) involvement with Enron.

2. This is the Moore that railed on about greedy oil companies, but failed to mention that at the time of his outrage, he owned thousands of shares of Haliburton and Sunoco stock. He qualifies the statement by saying HE didn't own any stock. Which is true. It is Michael Moore's foundation that owned the stock.

3. Moore teamed with the Kerry campaign and Cindy Sheehan to vampire funerals of returning soldiers to find families of troops to speak out against Bush. It was basically a triangulated attack, that Kerry to this day has never acknowledged, but has the aaudacity to pitch a fit about the Swift Boat Vets campaiging against him.

4. Moore hates this country, and loves advertising it's flaws, but is the consumate capitalist and actually lives like the Republicans he vilifies.

Marc,
Sorry if I struck a raw nerve -- I won't mock the The National Enquirer, the Weekly World News, Matt Drudge, or The New York Post again.

(Helpful Hint: in order for your quip to work don't make up the name of the publication as you did here when you compared me to "Disingenuous Daily Herald" -- it doesn't make sense.)

"This is the Moore that railed on about greedy oil companies, but failed to mention that at the time of his outrage, he owned thousands of shares of Haliburton and Sunoco stock."

Link, please.

Lorie, it's interesting that you quote from the New York Post. What did you think of the NYP's front page on Saturday?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04142007/frontback.htm

Did you find that to be in good taste? Did the Post's boisterous sense of humor give you have a good chuckle?

Heh, heh. Elvis was happy with his medical treatment, too. And Soros is happy to put 2% of his fortune into Halliburton stock.
==================================

Yeah, great joke on the cover of the NY Post.

Here's another:

Gov. Corzine didn't sustain any brain damage so he won't be switching political parties.

jp2:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/3/150518.shtml

"In his book "Stupid White Men," he wrote: "I don't own a single share of stock.

He repeated the claim in a 1997 letter to the online magazine Salon, saying: "I don't own any stock."

Privately, however, he tells the IRS a different story, Schweizer discloses in his book.

The year that Moore claimed in "Stupid White Men" that he didn't own any stock, he told the IRS that a foundation totally controlled by Moore and his wife had more than $280,000 in corporate stock and nearly $100,000 in corporate bonds."

Did you really just link to Newsmax? And the source to that article was a book called "Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy"?

Were you serious?

Pathetic. Evidence please.

I thought he already was a democrat?

Michael Moore is an educated, healthy and very handsome man.
Cuba is a worker's paradise.
North Korea is far more properous than South Korea.
Iran is very peaceful and wishes no harm to the U.S. or Israel.
Socialism always works better than capitalism.
Most dictators and terrorists are "just like us"--they have families and just want to get along.

Sincerely,

American Leftist
(I'm the one with the Barney Fife build, pony tail and bald spot--and I'm always mad as hell at something, even though I live in the richest and freeist nation in history.)

"Evidence please."

I looked around, and the only claim regarding the Foundation (which is called Center for Alternative Media) and the ownership of stock is contained in Schweizer's book. No one else makes that claim, they just repeat his claim.

His claim, however, is apparently backed by a copy of IRS return which is reportedly on the front cover of his book.

I also couldn't find any link or quote where Moore denies the claim.

jp2

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3773
This site quotes Worldnetdaily.net.

Now you have to ask yourself the following questions

1. Does or have Michael Moore ever owned Halliburton/Sunoco stock? If he has not, then this is an open and shut case for libel. And considering the "army of lawyers" he had on hand to direct to any person that "slandered" his content in Farenheit 9/11, you would have to be a complete idiot to not think he would use lawyers to attack a person that published a false statement about him

2. Why discredit Newsmax? True, they are a conservative, but they are not immune from defamation laws. Either the story is true, or it's false. Defamation laws in this country are pretty clear concerning media that publish false statements, with the knowledge they are false, or refuses to retract false statements.

3. Note how Moore says "I have never owned a share of stock". Yet, he has never denied his foundation does not ir has not owned said stock. And considering most foundations are non-profit, there is a lower tax burden for Moore's foundation if it is not for profit. What is the prupose of the foundation? Who is the recipient for its philanthropy? Why does Moore not promote his foundation, since he is for the little guy? Why does Moore use a foundation to obtain shares of stock, receive the benefit of the capital gain, but is protected from tax laws of the non=profit organization. This is important since Moore is on record in a live interview of believing the rich should be taxed up to 60% of their income.

jp2

I'm not sure you should be making fun of fat people though - some of the people on this site are overweight and they might take offense.

Who made fun of them? Not I, just made a factual ref to Moore being fat (that you previously eluded to) and gave him some medical advice, (he should have gotten liposuction in Cuda)

If I would have had any desire to poke fun at the fat assed Moore I would have called him a testosterone enhanced Rosie who suffers from an acute case of IMS, has had a permanent cranial sphincter muscle reversal that has chocked off enough of his blood supply to the brain resulting in so much damage he couldn't make an honest movie about his mother.

nikkolai, you omitted one:

Chavez is a benign dictator who only desires to help those poor poor people of Harlem with their winter heating bills.

What you don't believe it?!!!

Just ask Harry Belafonte and the Sheehag. And Fidel

jp2:

"Did you really just link to Newsmax? And the source to that article was a book called "Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy"?

Were you serious?

Pathetic. Evidence please."

A backhanded response with closed eyes. You don't even bother to do your own research, even to find out about an author's background or experience. Other people have to do it for you. My guess is your response would be the same with any link given to you. Indeed, pathetic.

I wonder if Michael Moore will feature things like this in his documentary which will no doubt glorify socialized medicine. (Ewwwwwww....)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=448395&in_page_id=1774

I recently spent four days in the hospital and the bill amounted to just over $150,000. I received excellent care, and my portion of the final bill was a $50 co-pay. I wouldn't trade what I have here for the free care in Cuba.

Fact is, however, that the the Cuban health care system has going through some recent improvements, and according to the article....

Just out of curiosity, what was it? I'm fairly certain you didn't pay $50 (even on an HMO) on a $150K hospital bill.

I had a stent placed in my heart at the cost of $32,000 pre co-pay. I ended up with a $3000 bill with my PPO.

Who is your insurance company, please.