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Virginia Tech Shooting: The aftermath

I figured we'd start a new thread for the Virgina Tech aftermath now that the "breaking news" aspect of this is largley over. We'll update this for a while.

The first victim's name has been released. Ryan Clark from the Augusta Ga area. His parents have told the media they think he was in the dorm and not a classroom. This is especially intersting because, if correct, he was apparently attached to the original incident this morning.

The Sun Times is reporting he was a Chinese student on a student visa.

The Roanoke Times is live blogging the details if you're still looking for info.


[note]

As an aside, Bush and Pelosi both spoke, but taking that off the table, we can start an impromtu pool. Who will be the first pol to try to use the deaths of 32 kids for politcal gain AND when?

I figure the finger pointing and recrimination will be starting about 8 hours after the last bodybag is zipped.


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Comments (42)

I think that's already behi... (Below threshold)
Dan S:

I think that's already behind us. Don't the arguments about gun control (pro and con) already qualify as politics?

And, callous as I may be, I don't see why we shouldn't start exploring the implications of the incident on politics immediately. Why is that wrong? It gives these deaths meaning, does it not? Or is it better that they remain senseless?

Can we please refrain..just... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

Can we please refrain..just for awhile..from stuff like our opinions on guns..our pointing a finger..
our knee jerk reaction..?
Can we instead to take a moment..to reflect on the loss and grief..
Too many of us have had a child or loved one die way too soon.
For those of us who have been spared this grief...lets us be thankful..
and not waste one moment in expressing our love to those that are important in our lives..

>>I think that's already be... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>>I think that's already behind us. Don't the arguments about gun control (pro and con) already qualify as politics?

I mean professionals (pols or maybe media) not a blog comment section.

>And, callous as I may be, I don't see why we shouldn't start exploring the implications of the incident on politics immediately. Why is that wrong?

Good question.

I predict the Democrats wil... (Below threshold)

I predict the Democrats will come out first with complaints about how the government didn't do enough to protect these people (like they did with NOLA) and they'll place all the blame on President Bush (like they did with NOLA) while completely ignoring the state and local officials' actions (like they did with NOLA).

I don't know how they do th... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

I don't know how they do this so fast, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva

For once, I somberly agree ... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

For once, I somberly agree with nogo postal. Let's refrain.

If you can do nothing physical for the families, then at least pray and send your light out into the darkness.

Never mind that post. I was... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

Never mind that post. I was misinformed.

That was from last year.

Sorry.

I also have to agree.... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

I also have to agree.

This is a little too heavy to get into just yet. And we need more information.

There is a lot to compare h... (Below threshold)
bill:

There is a lot to compare here with New Orleans. No emergency plan at VT either. I wonder how many other campuses are sitting ducks.

Pathetic. The lives that might have been saved if they had only been warned after the first shooting to lock all the doors in all buildings.

"And, callous as I may be, ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

"And, callous as I may be, I don't see why we shouldn't start exploring the implications of the incident on politics immediately. Why is that wrong? It gives these deaths meaning, does it not? Or is it better that they remain senseless?"

Politics gives the deaths of 32 people meaning? Politics will remove the senselessness of today's deaths? Whoo boy.

If <a href="http://blogs.wa... (Below threshold)

If ABC counts as a pert of the Democrats (and it should) they beat the 8 hour estimate by quite a bit.

Stephen:OMG! Good ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Stephen:

OMG! Good one.

Some twit on PBS' News Hour... (Below threshold)

Some twit on PBS' News Hour just compared this shooting to what's going on in Iraq. Uh, yeah. Some unhinged freak carrying out a random bloodbath is definitely the same as a highly organized, well-funded campaign of terror meant to obstruct the nation-building in Iraq.

Well, MSNBC has already got... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Well, MSNBC has already gotten in on the leftwing agenda by promoting a show tonight on gun control. Wow. That didn't take long.

This reminds me of the Lubys Cafeteria shooing back in the early 90s. One woman was there with her parents when she suddenly remembered she had a gun with her (she had a concealed gun permit), and as the shooter was going around shooting, she reached into her purse to get it, and remembered that she left it in the car because Lubys didn't allow concealed weapons in it's restaurant.

So she sat there and watched helplessly as each of her parents got shot and killed. Had she had her gun she could have saved them.

Anyway, she is now a congresswoman in the state house in Ausin.

Just a little story the MSM doesn't really want you to know.

While listening to Micheal ... (Below threshold)
BigCatGirl:

While listening to Micheal Savage, who is now doing a live feed on what had happened on the VT campus, the police officer had said it was a domestic despute. Mr. Savage is saying the police chief is doing a CYA story. In other words, the shooting was icolated in nature.

Prayers for those who lost ... (Below threshold)
BigCatGirl:

Prayers for those who lost dear ones and for those injured.

From the evening news confe... (Below threshold)
Mark:

From the evening news conference, it appears that the shooter/suspect/person of interst in the dorm does not match the prelim ID of the shooter in Norris Hall.

1) Shooting are not related ( now that would be a 1 in billion or so).

2) They are the same and the witness info from the first shooting is bad ( this happens all the time).

Mark

Jason: Unhinged freaks carr... (Below threshold)
blackcat77:

Jason: Unhinged freaks carrying out random attacks seems to describe both Iraq and VT pretty well.

I will not get into discussions about guns because it's really beside the point. The problem is that our society has gotten to the point where violence is becoming the FIRST resort. There was a time when, if your relationship went sour, you didn't just start blowing people away, and especially not random people as it seems to have been in this case. Our society has become so coarse and so selfish that it seems there is simply no respect for anybody else anymore, and a mass murder just makes for a showier suicide.

There are a lot of symptoms of this from shock jocks on the radio to the politics of destruction to just a general disregard for what the things you do mean to others. When you add this attitude to someone who's unbalanced to begin with, events such as today's seem the inevitable outcome.

The antique MSM and the gun... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

The antique MSM and the gun control nuts have already stated. Don't they know that there was "A TOTAL WEAPONS BAN' on the campus. When you ban guns, only criminals have guns. Need any more proof that today? Some of the students at VT saw this coming and tried to legalize CWP's on campus. As far as i'm concerned, and I live in Va, the gun banners are responsible for today. The killer knew about the weapons ban and shot people at will with no fear of anyone having a weapon. Argue yourself blue in the face but facts are facts, like the shooting at the law shool in Va., only an armed citizen (off duty cop) stopped the carnage. Only the most retarded, (BDS qualifies), won't see that.

Well I don't know who will ... (Below threshold)
mustng66:

Well I don't know who will take advantage first but if this is any indication:

8:46 EDT VA Tech authorities have issued a warning to all students to stay away from microphones, news trucks and podiums. There is a possible chance of being crushed to death as it was reported that Democrat 2008 candidates are rushing to the scene. "We don't want any students risking injury or death by standing near or especially in front of any microphones while the Democrat 2008 presidential candidate are in town. There is a special alert for John Kerry as he is reported to have landed first.", said Acting VA Tech Lt. Holmes of the campus police.

musng, tell me you're kiddi... (Below threshold)
Jo:

musng, tell me you're kidding.

If not, then OMG.

So the Chinese student: was... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

So the Chinese student: was he affiliated with the PLA? And if so, why are these agents allowed to enter as legitimate students, or at all?

VY put a "No guns on campus... (Below threshold)
spaceman:

VY put a "No guns on campus" policy in place in 2005.

Gee, I guess the shooter violated school "policy".

Too bad student, professor, someone besides the shooter wasn't packing. If police can't protect you, armed citizens must.

The right of the people to bear arms.....

This incident should be com... (Below threshold)
chsw:

This incident should be compared to the U. Texas campus tower incident in 1966. That brain cancer-deranged shooter was shot by a combination of police and fellow students who pulled rifles out of their car trunks and began firing back in self-defense. If there would have been no armed students on the UTx campus in 1966, the death toll would have been higher as the shooter in the tower had a commanding vantage point of the entire campus.

chsw

"Too bad student, professor... (Below threshold)
jeff:

"Too bad student, professor, someone besides the shooter wasn't packing. If police can't protect you, armed citizens must."

I agree...Virginia issues concealed handgun permits. They also have reciprocity with most of the other states that have similar concealed weapon laws. The problem here is that a university is one of several places where you cannot carry a weapon even if you have a permit to carry. I have been thinking about this since I heard this too. The dorm is a bit of a different situation though. If someone living in that dorm had a weapon and used deadly force on the perp I think that would be borderline legal. I imagine the university has a no handgun in their dorm policy. I have a permit to carry, but rarely do....it is a gigantic responsibility. The window to legally use deadly force in public is very small. Most of the time you have to flee or retreat. I do carry in my vehicles most of the time...but that is only because my vehicles are an extension of my home which can be defended under the castle doctrine.
There was a situation in detroit where a 2 guys get in an argument at an after hours bar. (A bar is another place where carrying even with a permit is illegal). One guy pulls a gun and shoots the other guy in the head, he later dies. An off duty bouncer who had a concealed weapon permit and was carrying shoots the original shooter, killing him. The justification for shooting him was perfectly legal, but he was charged with a weapon violation which i think they eventually dropped.

I am interested to see how this motherfucker got his weapons. Especially if he were here on a visa. There is a mandatory waiting period for buying a handgun too. But the black market is huge for such things.

Damn.....I had no idea that... (Below threshold)
jeff:

Damn.....I had no idea that Texas U students fired back on whitman. I love that concept.

Monday morning quarterbacks... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Monday morning quarterbacks are busy but they've forgotten one fact.
They scream someone should have noticed/picked up on this before it happened.
What would you do if you picked up on a disaster (terrorists attack) that was about the happen? Would you report your suspicions to the authorities or keep quiet?

Based on the recent incident involving 'terrorists' checking out airline security you will end up being sued if you inform the authorities. All of this is supported by the PC police, Antique MSM and the DEMOCRAT party. Come on dhimmi's, fess up, you would let your BDS kill hundreds rather than admit you are wrong.

Scrapiron,Though y... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Scrapiron,

Though your point is scattershot, I think you recognize the way this may go, politically ("T" word, and all). That a Chinese "student" (if not a member of the PLA, then of the communist militia which everyone is) was given a visa as cover to reconnoiter the place and report back to Beijing.
The Chinese debrief all their subjects whom they ALLOW to leave, and rest and relaxation is not part of the itenerary. That's probably why the guy flipped out: pressure to produce more than he was able.
From buyers to students, no Chinese national is a free agent.
So: why are foreign intelligence assets given visas?
Fortunately for Bush, the Dems are globalists, too, so it might remain unasked.

Law enforcement(LEO's) did ... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

Law enforcement(LEO's) did the right thing on this one. It's the school that screwed the pooch, and it wasn't for an obvious reason. I'll explain why.

Read this: http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770 (from 2005)

VT made the decision that lawful CCW holders would not be allowed to defend themselves on campus. There are no laws otherwise prohibiting people from doing so. Fine; stupid, but that's their choice, unless legislation says otherwise. Check out this quote:

""I think it's fair to say that we believe guns don't belong in the classroom," Hincker said. "In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear."

Classic example of a sheep unable to tell the sheepdog from the wolf, and an ominous sign of mistakes to come.

The problem is that they did not seem to understand the responsibility they were taking on. They don't have anywhere near enough police to actually protect the students and faculty; LEO's cant stop anything in time unless they are right on top of it. They (LEO's) have been given a hopeless task, even with the extra cops there for the early morning double murder investigation.

So, having taken responsibility for everyone's safety, they make the fatal error. A lot of people are asking why the LEO's didn't "lock down" VT after the first shootings. The answer is, you simply can't. It's too large. It's like "locking down" a town of 20,000 any time a couple of people get shot.

But there is a problem with that analogy; VT isn't a town. It's a giant pile of potential victims, thanks to VT policy. Towns shoot back. A reaction appropriate for a small town had horrifying consequences for a large campus. They couldn't lock everything down, but they failed the next best action. Had VT canceled classes after 2 deaths and no shooter in hand, many students, especially commuters, would not have gotten the word and shown up. However, most who did show up would have left or gone somewhere else, and so would not have been sitting in class so the shooter could quietly seal the exits and then open fire on them.

The school took these responsibilities on itself, and completely blew it. We need to spread the word on this, enough is enough.

bryanD,It would no... (Below threshold)
BigCatGirl:

bryanD,

It would not suprise me if this Chinesse shooter was trained as a PLA solder or sharpshooter. It makes me wonder, first tainted pet food, now this new horor?

america is lame.... (Below threshold)
sas:

america is lame.

America is sad, self-destru... (Below threshold)
groucho:

America is sad, self-destructive and in the process of consuming itself from within. Shame on all those who, at this early stage, attempt to politicize this unspeakable tragedy. So many of us are consumed by the instantaneous media overload, drunk on the endless opinions, posturing and self-righteous blather from the endless parade of so-called experts.

We are a society obsessed with violence; we revel in it and celebrate it, from entertainment to sports to the voyeuristic car-wreck spectacle our mainstream media has become. Obsessing over every tiny detail and new revelation will not help us understand why this happened. I agree with Jay that, at this point anyway, this looks like simply the hideous and unfathomable act of another deranged individual, nothing more. Probably unpreventable as well.

All the coulda/woulda/shoulda hindsight in the world won't bring these poor innocent people back or make this tragedy any less senseless. Maybe it's time to turn off the info media circus for a while and reflect on this sobering event and what it says about us and the society we have allowed ourselves to become.

Yeah, it sounds like the "p... (Below threshold)

Yeah, it sounds like the "problem with ID" means "problem with senior Chinese official's numba-one son." If this were China, they'd be harvesting the organs like the bodies were a bunch of busted pinatas.

Groucho, read my above post... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

Groucho, read my above post again. The second set of shootings was certainly preventable to some extent, and while we may never know why it happened, we know what sort of decisions made it possible.

Several shootings like this have been stopped before getting to this point by CCW holders -- there was an incident at a law school where 3 or so were shot, at least one incident at a high school, and one at a mall a couple years ago.

<a href="http://hokievoices... (Below threshold)

http://hokievoices.wordpress.com/
A place to express your sympathy and reactions to the terrible events of April 16th.

We need to take time to lov... (Below threshold)

We need to take time to love on those that are not at the top of the social chain. We may never truly know the motive behind such horrific actions that the killer uses to justify his or her means. However, when the downtrodden and socially uncool are accepted I believe a major motive is removed.
http://www.hollywoodsquared.com/

JUST AN INFORMAL LETTER ... (Below threshold)
MELINA:

JUST AN INFORMAL LETTER TO EXTEND FROM DOMINICAN REPUBLIC OUR DEEPEST SORROW, YOU MEMBERS BEEN THROUGH, ASKING GOOD TO HEAL THE HEARTS OF THOSE ONES WHO WHERE DIRECTLY AND UNDIRECTLY AFFECTED AS PERSONALLY ME.
BEST REGARDS
Melina Molina

Unbelievable. My thoughts a... (Below threshold)

Unbelievable. My thoughts are with all of you.

Take a moment to reflect on... (Below threshold)
Tabitha:

Take a moment to reflect on the loss and grief???

WHO'S loss and grief? Yours? Mine? Did you KNOW the people killed? Did you KNOW thier families? Did I? Or are you doing that same "knee jerk" thing you were complaining others were doing?

How many times have YOU automatically, with out thought or actually feeling, said "I'm sorry" when you heard of a death?

Saying sorry, and being sorry, in cases like this, are a simple cliche reaction. We are "Supposed" to say those things. Do we truely mean it?

Will you actually GRIEVE? Or will you simply say that it was a tragedy, and not truely be affected. Will you still go out this friday or saturday night to a club, or a party? Or will you be home in your bedroom weeping?

I mean, please, forgive me if I am wrong. I humbly and wretchedly apologize if I am wrong. But, Am I?

I thought I heard on the ne... (Below threshold)
Alan:

I thought I heard on the news that this kid was sexually abused by his step-father. I may be wrong. But if so, shoudn't the step-father also be held accountable for what happened? It seems to have been a definite factor.

V.T, WE ARE SORRY THAT WE H... (Below threshold)
Deb:

V.T, WE ARE SORRY THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE CONTACT WITH THE SCHOOL AND COMMUNITY THIS WAY IALSO ATTENDED A UNIVERSITY IN A SMALL COMMUNITY AS MY CHILDREN HAVE TOO. THE TOWN IS VIRGINIA TECH AND I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYONE IS GRIEVING WITH SO MANY QUESTIONS WHY, WERE THERE SIGNS,DID WE JUST CHOOSE TO KEEP SILENT:AS YOU ASK YOURSELF THESE QUESTIONS REMEMBER YOU ARE HUMAN AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD AND UNFORTUNATELY NOT THE TROUBLED PEOPLE IN IT. THAT'S THE LOST, THE LONELY, AND THE DISTURBED. HINDSIGHT IS ALWAYS BETTER BUT THAT DOESN'T COME UNTIL MUCH LATER UNTIL DISASTER HAS STRUCK. IN THIS CASE THE MASACCRE. NOBODY SHOULD BE BLAMING THEMSELVES BUT AS I KNOW YOU ARE COMING TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY AND AS A PAST TEACHER AND A MOTHER OF A CHILD IN COLLEGE I CAN'T IMAGINE ALL THE PAIN THAT YOU ARE FEELING. I JUST KNOW IF IT WAS ME I WOULD BE JUST EXISTING. MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO YOU, V.T. & ALSO ALL OF THE STUDENTS AND THE FAMILIES AND EVERYONE WHO HAS LOST SOMEBODY THEY LOVE AND THE ONES THAT ARE RECOVERING. AS FOR THE PROFESSOR THAT GAVE HIS LIFE SO HIS STUDENTS COULD LIVE BY TELLING THEM TO JUMP OUT OF THE WINDOWS AS HE BARACADED THE DOOR KNOWING HE WAS GOING TO DIE. THAT SHOWS ME THAT HE UNDERSTOOD THE TRUE MEANING OF WHY GOD SENT HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, TO DIE FOR US. HE SHOWED THE LOVE THAT ONLY ONES WHO KNOW JESUS SHOW HIS LOVE. TO HIS FAMILY WE SAY THAT YOUR HUSBAND, FATHER, IS A TRUE HERO AND THAT WE PRAY FOR YOU. IN CHRIST NAME, DB & DL

Are the police positive tha... (Below threshold)
Jewell:

Are the police positive that Cho acted alone? After watching his final "confession" video, you can clearly tell that someone other than him filmed it, not only is the camera shaking and too far from his body in most of the scenes, but you can actually hear someone in the background behind the camera. Even if this unknown person wasn't involved in the actual shooting, they obviously knew it was going to happen. Can't the police investigate and prosecute this person?




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