For gawds sake, can you people get over John Kerry anytime soon?

Your boy Bush won in Nov 2004, remember? Aren't you so glad he did?

I bet my 'lucky hat' that we all will not receive a Christmas in Cambodia(40th anniv) card from Hanoi John again this year??

Nice try "avg" (aptly named)

This thread is about the continued attempt by the left and the MSM to create, out of whole cloth, the impression that the swift boat vets (including many true heroes) were a bunch of right-wing liars when they criticized JfK.

The left and MSM want to use this term to undermine any criticism coming from the right against left-wing candidates.

This is very similar to how the left conflated McCarthy with Hollywood blacklists as part of their ongoing war of anti-anti-communism.

Well, as long as the left keeps trying to do that, folks on the other side are going to keep fighting back (rightfully so.)

I know I will get tons of disagreement from those on the Left over that statement, but I think the evidence is that compelling.
Lorie Byrd

Ask and ye shall receive.

Now, this article could use more links to strengthen its arguments, but I'm just putting it out there to get both sides on the issue.

What, no one here defending Alberto Gonzales today?

uh...sean? That article is the very one Powerline fisked.

good one... link to Media Matters to try and prove a point. George Soros funded, tax exempt organization that smears right wingers on a routine basis. Search for Limbaugh and they take him out of context 99.9% of the time.

oh, good article on NRO about Media Matters by Donald Luskin: http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200405050850.asp

Media Matters for America is a new website (mediamatters.org) "dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation." It's been developed with the zillions of tax-deductible dollars that George Soros and others contributed to the leftist Center for American Progress. It's run by a confessed liar, former conservative author David Brock, who has admitted that he knowingly lied in his book about Anita Hill, and has apologized for his reporting on Bill Clinton's sexual misadventures.

"What, no one here defending Alberto Gonzales today?

Posted by: average wizbang poster at April 19, 2007 05:43 PM"

And when did Gonzales run for president of the United States on a lie. Did he salute the congress and report for duty today? You have your apples and oranges mixed up.

No Christmas in Cambodia, no lucky hat from a special forces trooper. How can anyone be so dense as to believe one word Hanoi John says, anytime, about anything?

Vietnam Vet. 365 days, 23.5 hours in country. 48 months in and around the country in a support role. Yes I did keep track. Still have my travel voucher in and out of the country.

As the daughter of a soldier killed in Vietnam, I could care less what the term is. I am very grateful for the swift boat veterans and their cause.

I am so grateful that they stopped a lying, pampered, flip-flopping, marry richer boy from being president!

AVG,

Odd as it may seem to you, I didn't want Gonzales as Supreme Court Justice, nor as AG. So why should I be upset he's probably finished?

That said, I think there's not much flame beneath the smoke the attack dogs are blowing. But Gonzales just isn't up to the job.

W definitely has a mixed record on appointments. He also has one on a lot of other things.

But I still am happy he's president when the alternative was JFK.

Avg: "What, no one here defending Alberto Gonzales today?"

Never fails. Regardless of how many topics are being covered on a blog site, there are always going to be topics not covered or yet to be covered.

I can't help but notice that lefties always show up on thread A to ask why topic B is not being discussed.

Amazing.

Of course, the minute Topic B gets its own thread, lefties will ask why topic C is not being discussed.

Meanwhile, you have idiot lefties like Sean who will miss the entire point of threads (and/or it's associated underlying facts).

Amazing. Not really. More like...predictable.

Powerline was one of the sources for the fake Michael Ware heckling story! Did they think because Ware's back was to the camera, that Powerline could glue a funny face on him through auto-suggestion?

Do they think that the reader will believe what they have to say now?
Unless they've retracted it, but last I heard, it was the ol' neocon PC cheer: Fire Him! Fire Him!

Even couching it as something CNN(!) "should do".
Like Enemy CNN is going to listen to you, you snot-nosed maroon!

As for "Democracy" Caucus(AEI): I don't feel like getting banned today, so I'll leave it there.

Hell, Lorie, I agree with the gist of your post, but the links to finks gets my Irish up.

Media Matters is not funded by Soros, that's Limbaugh talking. It was founded by David Brock.

But I would never expect the doofuses here to understand that, since Rush is always right, just like the bumpersticker sez.

As I said: "I'm just putting it out there to get both sides on the issue."

I was on my way out the door from work and didn't read the Powerline post. I now have and will concede that Boehlert's article certainly looks much weaker after reading Powerline. But you should note, that even in my original post I say that there were ways to make the article stronger.

And Drago, I'm well aware of what the thrust of the post is, I was just fulfilling Lorie's wishes. If that makes me an "idiot leftie" in your eyes, so be it.

Sean: "And Drago, I'm well aware of what the thrust of the post is, I was just fulfilling Lorie's wishes."

You are correct sir. It was "avg" who was doing the "tangent shuffle".....

bryand: "Powerline was one of the sources for the fake Michael Ware heckling story! Did they think because Ware's back was to the camera, that Powerline could glue a funny face on him through auto-suggestion?"

This is, of course, another lie.

At no time did Powerline act as one of "the sources" for this story.

This story was reported by Rawstory and Drudge, Powerline linked to it for discusson purposes and relayed comments from all sides (including providing complete Michael Ware responses to this report from his appearance on CNN.)

Thus, once again, it is bryand who is the liar, lacks credibility, and should never be believed without some link to an independent source.

bryand, for your benefit, Pravda is not an independent or reliable source.

Sorry to have to tell you that.

Relying on a lib for accuracy in the media is akin to relying on McGreevey to teach an ethics course. Guess the flamer and NAMBLA member couldnt get a job teaching a class on marital fidelity.

bryand, once again practicing his "Rules for Radicals" techniques, demonstrates again that when the left has no credible response (and in the SwiftBoatVets case they don't), they will always, always, obfuscate, misdirect, and lie outright.

By the way, hows that mythical "70% of voters want us out of Iraq NOW!!!" mandate coming along?

Relying on Keith Olberman for a factual account of ANYTHING is akin to relying on Jim McGreevey to teach an ethics course.

Do so at your own risk, and dont let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Sal: "And an allegedly-leaked GOP memo touts a new terror attack as a way to reverse the party's decline."

Yeah, I think that "allegedly-leaked GOP memo" was anonymously sent to Keith Olbermann from an undisclosed Kinko's in Texas.

Wow, what a powerfully researched, impeccably documented, irresistably profound post.

Of course, the moon landings were faked as well.

Elvis lives.

Roosevelt knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor prior to 7Dec41.

UFO's are real dammit!! REAL!!!!

There were actually 478 shooters on the grassy knoll.

Hillary Clinton is actually quite personable and likeable.

etc.

average wizbang poster

Media Matters is not funded by Soros, that's Limbaugh talking. It was founded by David Brock.

But I would never expect the doofuses here to understand that, since Rush is always right, just like the bumpersticker sez.

Ahemm... Media Matters for America is funded in part by the Democracy Alliance.

"Members of the Democracy Alliance include billionaires like George Soros and his son Jonathan Soros, former Rockefeller Family Fund president Anne Bartley, San Francisco Bay Area donors Susie Tompkins Buell and Mark Buell, Hollywood director Rob Reiner, Taco Bell heir Rob McKay ... as well as New York financiers like Steven Gluckstern."

To believe that either of the Soros' are members in name only and haven't funneled tons of cash into Media Matters puts your on par with "Sal Manilla" above and his idiotic delusions.

And BTW, it makes you a doofuses as well.

"This story was reported by Rawstory and Drudge, Powerline linked to it for discusson purposes and relayed comments from all sides_ drago"

As for link vs. source: the source is confidential.
Powerline, instead of retracting the story, justified their position stating Ware's "reporting IS heckling" in and of itself. weeeeak.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/017227.php

Many in the media even specifically refer to the claims of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about John Kerry as unsubstantiated. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

If by ALL of the claims being unsubstianted, yes, that's true.

But SOME of the specific claims of the Swiftboat Veterans For Rent were unsubstantiated, and later proven to be quite false.

That the Swiftboat Vets for Rent didn't lie about everything, that doesn't mean they weren't liars.

Here's what they lied about, and were caught at lying about:

http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

Also, I note that of the six Swiftboat vets who were personally with Kerry that day, 5 support him and one is dead.

To believe that either of the Soros' are members in name only and haven't funneled tons of cash into Media Matters puts your on par with "Sal Manilla" above and his idiotic delusions.

Wow, just like Santa claus right? If you believe it long enough, it just may come true. not like you have a single shred of proof, but here at wizbang, reality can sometimes get in the way of the slobbering dolts and their theories.

AWP:

not like you have a single shred of proof,

It goes both ways doesn't it? Where's YOUR proof?

However, given the close association and both Soros and Media Matters having an agenda that is joined at the hip the likeihood of my position is just a bit higher than yours.

marc, let's try this slowly, seeing how you are a little impaired. Show me direct proof that shows Soros funds MM. Not your moronic speculations, but real, solid proof.

given the close association and both Soros and Media Matters having an agenda that is joined at the hip
Oh, guilt by association, riiiiight. Man, you're reaching on this on.

Here ya go Marc, find me soros' name on the rollcall

http://mediamatters.org/about_us/staff_advisors

If Soros was lavishing them with money, they wouldn't need to accept donations would they? Seeing how soros funds everything evil and wrong in the world, you'd think he'd dump millions on them, but no, not the case as they have to slum it looking for money.

Oh yes, the repugs tried the "swiftboating" here with mailers saying this pervert child molester just moved into our neighborhood. Problem was, same post card mailed, same picture of the creep to different districts, quite a few miles apart.

When called out on that, the State Repug Committee tried to blame someone else. Well, it worked, even repugs voted for the Demos. In other words, in came back and BIT THEM IN THE ASS.

But please continue to SPIN, as I need the laughs.
Just like Lee on gun control, I need the laughs.

Im sure this will come as a shock to you libs that kneel in front of Kerry, but Kerry's comments while eulogizing a man(Thomas Belodeau) on the senate floor(its in the congressional record) directly contradict his 'story' about what a hero he was when he went back under fire to pick up a comrade.

So, was he lying when he eulogized a friend, or, was he lying during his campaign??

jim, a link to an 08/06/04 factcheck article from the first week of the Swift Boat controversy? Haven't we been over this lately. You are antiquated.

I notice the media matter guy focussed on the players in the ads. I guess Kerry's forces have decided Bay Hap is insupportable, the Silver Star should be quieted, maybe it was Nixon in Cambodia for Christmas. Besides, those two in the skimmer haven't had the same story for decades. Check it out. The rest of his stuff is pretty lame, too.

What is the chance Media Matters has the grassroots support that the Swifties have. Soros should know, as well as anyone, that bought and paid for political speech is fundamentally corrupting. I happen to believe his influence has hampered the ability of the left to articulate its positions. For instance, find a leftist here who can argue Swift Boat points without reference to a list of talking points.

Any takers?
==========

Scott Johnson weighed in also and exposed another Eric Boehlert lie. But look, half the blogosphere swallows him uncritically.

I swear, Soros money is atrophying brains.
========================================

I always like to see when, at precisely the exact sentence, the Wizbang story totally falls apart. It's a great game and one you can play with 90% of the stories here. Usually it's around 4 or 5. This one was a 4.

As noted, these "swiftboaters" are discredited.

Interesting how the mention of Soros for some automatically means the source is tainted, yet a Texas Republican funded operation (with roots back to Nixon) is a totally 100% legit source. So blindly legit that some can ignore the glaring innacuracies of their claims.

The Trolls are correct, Swift boat vets didn't affect Kerry's losing. Kerry did, he counted on REAL VETS not to remember what he said in the Senate. Vets, in turn, remembered, and told their adult, voting children, who kept his "Rice Laden Butt" out of office. but they have to have someone to blame, other then Kerry. "Swift Boating" to me.. is simply exposing the fakes..*S*..and I'm not even a republican!...(Independent)

I have a friend who served with Kerry in Viet Nam in swift boats. He told me years ago when we saw him on the Dick Cavett show that Kerry had the reputation of being a coward. As an officer, that is shameful. By the way, my friend is not prone to lying, unlike the idiot Average Wisbang Dumbfuck.

MediaMatters isn't funded by George Soros? Hmm, not what this says.
http://rightvoices.com/2007/04/14/media-matters-tries-to-deny-soros-factor/

Jim - Regarding the Silver Star incident, in addition to Kerry's crew, there were two other Navy officers on his boat that day. A UDT guy, Lt.Jg. Peter Upton, and fellow Swift Boat officer, Lt.Jg. Charles Gibson. They also support Kerry's version of the event, which is contained in the after-action report. I don't know if he wrote it, but it is accurate.

And Kim, I don't think anyone is quieting the Silver Star incident, if that's what you mean. There were 24 guys present for that incident, in addition to Kerry. Not a single one of them has a problem with the after-action report. For that reason, the book Unfit for Command totally ignores it, using documents that contain language that is not in the AAR, nor was it something said by Kerry or anyone else present that day.

And Zelsdorf Ragshaft I