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(Ugh) Vive La France (bleah)

I don't like publicly disagreeing with Michelle Malkin, but I find I have to. She wrote a scathing indictment of the French, and it's not pretty. But I'm not quite ready to write them off.

After bailing them out of World War I, World War II, Viet Nam, and numerous other problems, a lot of people think the United States should just let the French fall apart to the Islamists. It's a hell of a tempting notion, and I can't refute a single point of Michelle's. (Having spoken to her twice, briefly, on talk shows, I feel our relationship is such that I can address her by her first name.)

But I don't. I think that it is crucial that we rescue France from its own folly yet again. And it has nothing to do with the French, but France itself.

First up, let's remember that France is a nuclear nation. One of the most nuclear nations on earth. Should the Islamists gain the upper hand there, they'll have ready access to scads of nuclear technology, nuclear reactors, and -- perhaps -- even some of France's nuclear weapons.

Second, there's the cultural element. (Here's where I wish I was better at Photoshop.) Imagine the Eiffel Tower with a minaret on top. A burqua on the Mona Lisa, or Venus De Milo. That's likely to happen should the world ever face a Gaulistan.

(I have my own vision of the flag of Gaulistan: a rectangle, bisected by a line running from top right to bottom left -- the "bar sinister" of bastardy. The top left field would be the white of a flag of surrender; the bottom right yellow of cowardice. And smack dab in the middle, a big green crescent.)

Third, there's geography. France is smack dab in the middle of western Europe. It has access to the English Channel, the North Sea, the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean. On land, it borders Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, and Italy. To give the Islamists this foothold is like ignoring a fire in your neighbor's apartment because the guy's a jerk. The fire is far more of a threat than the jerk is, and it will not be confined to just his apartment for very long. And while it's satisfying to see his stuff (and, perhaps, even him) go up in smoke, the result will be far worse than

Fourth, there's the principle that in war, you don't give the enemy any victories. The Islamists have made their goals crystal clear, and they include the conquest of France. As tempting it is to throw France to the wolves (especially in a historical context, when one considers the fate of nations that have defeated France -- particularly Nazi Germany and Viet Nam), we should not simply indulge the French in their national vocation of surrendering.

You'll note that there's not a hint of sympathy or compassion for the French people among any of those reasons. That is deliberate. Quite frankly (no pun intended), the French neither want nor deserve such. But it is in our self interest, as defenders of Western civilization, to keep France from letting the French be hoisted by their own petard.

And if there's a more quintessentially French reason for doing something than "our own self-interest, regardless of what you want," I don't know what it might be.

So, why save the French? Certainly not for their benefit. In fact, we need to do it in spite of them. Perhaps, even, to spite them. Because, in the end, it's in our best interests. And to have them owe their freedom to us yet again will gall them no end. (Pun intended that time.)


Comments (41)

Or, as an alterntive, why n... (Below threshold)
sam:

Or, as an alterntive, why not nuke France?

We bailed france ouot of vi... (Below threshold)
jeff:

We bailed france ouot of vietman? Thats a new one on me. Who bailed us out of vietnam? Spin on tea bag.

What is happening in France... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

What is happening in France today is a vision of how the Dem party wants the US to be tomorrow.

How can one save libs/France from themselves??

Any why?

By the time of the French d... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

By the time of the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, the United States was financing a great deal of the French military expenditures. We may well have picked up the final tab for the crates of white flags. Who knows.

But it doesn't take much a knowledge of history to know that much. What've you been studying anyway?

Hopefully the vote today wi... (Below threshold)
Corky Boyd:

Hopefully the vote today will show the French populace has had enough of Chirac defeatism and socialism. Sarkozy is the symbol of a new spirit.

It's tough to break away from the supposed warm comfort of socialism, but it is individual leadership as shown by Margaret Thatcher in the UK and Ronald Reagan in the US, that is needed to carry the day in France.

If Royal finishes well, once again the battle is lost in France.

as sam said; it's the only ... (Below threshold)

as sam said; it's the only way to be sure.

jeff We bailed... (Below threshold)
marc:

jeff

We bailed france ouot of vietman? Thats a new one on me. Who bailed us out of vietnam? Spin on tea bag.

Damn Jeff, there must be a lot "new on" you if fail to recognize France's long history in Vietnam that dates to 1887 when they first unified the country.

The French defeat noted by MichaelC redivided the country into north and south.

Ok, lets say we want to sav... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

Ok, lets say we want to save France from an Islamist takeover - how the hell could we do that if the French dont give a crap about the direction of their own country? Did we somehow learn how to do that from our experience in Iraq? gc

We can save France from inv... (Below threshold)
Robert the Original:

We can save France from invading armies but we cannot save them from idiocy, any more than we could save, say, Venezuela. In any case it is too late.

Here in Michigan we have high unemployment, like France. We are an economic basket case, like France. Like France, we are raising taxes while the Dems here are proposing to buy iPods for every school child. Unions run the place so we can't close schools or change the teachers' healh care to anything lower than 12K per year. The Karl Marx death spiral reaches out to us.

We will be lucky enough to save ourselves.

I still think the French wi... (Below threshold)
mike:

I still think the French will expel the Muslim invaders. They did it before at Tours, and they've got ahistory of expelling groups that they finally conclude pose a threat: Germans (twice), Jesuits, Heugonots, the English and even their own aristocracy. The fact that they've got Muslim ghettos means that they don't wnat Islamification of France. Give them time and we should help when they are ready.

Robert, sad part i... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Robert,

sad part is michigan, like Joisey, is controlled by those on the left. Cant imagine it'll get better, get out while you can.

Libbies love to say how great things would be IF ONLY they were in control, but damn, thay are in control in places like Michigan, NJ, Mexifornia, New Orleans, Philadelphia, DC, etc etc etc, and look what they have done?


Hard to believe the dems would do a better job, when there is an extraordinary amount of data that proves when Dems are in control, sh** gets worse.

"Damn Jeff, there must be a... (Below threshold)
jeff:

"Damn Jeff, there must be a lot "new on" you if fail to recognize France's long history in Vietnam that dates to 1887 when they first unified the country.

The French defeat noted by MichaelC redivided the country into north and south."

Everyone knows the french preceeded the us into vietnam, what i am saying is that we DID NOT BAIL FRANCE OUT IN VIETNAM. If what we did in nam was a bailout....i would hate to see a failure...wait i am getting to see one as we speak in iraq. Mabey 30- 40 years down the road tea bag will spin the iraq war into "we bailed out france again".

Mike,You are reading... (Below threshold)

Mike,
You are reading strange leaves of tea......the French, once a power, are so far into socialist-acceptance as to be bereft of any drive to fix anything. Their current, and apparent, move toward something other than a Chirac leadership is only because they see the combination of overload of finances by their own accepted "freebies for all" mentality and the problem of a growing (already way beyond their control) Islamist move to negate any control of Islamic areas or ideology....

They are, in my opinion, too late.

The problem we face is a growing lack of control in some areas of the USA....take Michigan for instance....of just such Islamic attempts to set forth their own agenda/religious beliefs as acceptable to society in general...despite their level of less than 1% of the population. Cart "leading" the horse????

Duke

unemployment, like France. ... (Below threshold)
jeff:

unemployment, like France. We are an economic basket case, like France. Like France, we are raising taxes while the Dems here are proposing to buy iPods for every school child. Unions run the place so we can't close schools or change the teachers' healh care to anything lower than 12K per year. The Karl Marx death spiral reaches out to us.

If you really live in michigan you know damn well what drives our economy, cars, cars, cars..and if the big 3 aren't doing well then everything else suffers. Why is the big 3 suffering....a big reason is the cost of health care for their aging work force and retirees. I'm sure that is granholm's fault too.

Yeah teachers are so overpaid, they should give back all of their healthcare benefits. They don't deserve it, right robert? Even thought they have a negotiated contract they should give back what is theirs. Sure. Just like delphi....claim bankruptcy, give millions and millions to the white collar workers, bankruptcy attorneys, and conslutants and go to court to try to have a judge invalidate the blue collar workers contract. Offer the workers a 65% pay cut. That is the GOP way of doing business. I have lived in michigan my whole life. I am a 3rd generation union carpenter. I have never been laid off in 15 years as a carpenter. I work in and around detroit and the wages i earn as a union carpenter and the benefits are huge. But i have to pay the excessive 75 cents an hour for union dues, It's brutal. I will be able to retire at the age of 53 with a 4000 a month pension and a 3000 a month annunity and health care for the rest of my life.

Jay<a href="http:/... (Below threshold)

Jay

This will be the new travel brochure for enjoying spring in al France.

A burqua on the Mona Lisa, ... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

A burqua on the Mona Lisa, won't happen. Look at the history of Islam. All French art would be destroyed within hours of a takeover.

Poor Jeff, lost the argument on Vietnam and proceeded on to something totally unrelated. So, is the union providing your pension or is it now provided by the taxpayers because the 'leaders' stole all of the union workers money? I see that has happened in the UMW and UAW + dozens of other unions. Maybe congress should cut some of the $4,000 per month 'union' pensions + $3000 month annunity provided by the taxpayers. Should we all contact our congress critters and have them 'stop' the excesses immidiately? As a member of a union family I know of no one that retires at 53 on a draw of $7,000 per month other than the 'leadership' of the unions. I'll have to start borrowing from my 'cuz' who is state president of a union.

Ich bin ein frankfurter.<br... (Below threshold)
kim:

Ich bin ein frankfurter.
==============

Anyone ever remember a unio... (Below threshold)
Dems and Waco:

Anyone ever remember a union that did a job better, and cheaper?

Consumers have the right to buy what they want, when they want it, and from whomever they want.

Why should the govt be 'mandated' to contract more expensive, and inferior union labor which is what, 12% of the workforce?

Unions are afraid of 'free markets', and when they dont get their way, they blame their failure on the right, instead of themselves, their costs, and their practices.

The reason the big 3 is losing their butt is becase of inferior design, inferior workmanship, and unattractive cost. Why would ANYONE ever want to buy a car from the big 3??? Havent for over 20 yrs, cant imagine that I ever will again. 2 Nissan Maximas, a Nissan Altima, and a Toyota Tacoma are virtually maintenance free, and hold their value longer than any comparable big 3 car, like, say, a Taurus and a Ranger??

And to have them owe th... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

And to have them owe their freedom to us yet again will gall them no end. Kind of ironic considering that French military aid..was pivotal in the American defeat over the British in the Revoutionary War. French involvement proved decisive, with a French naval victory in the Chesapeake Bay, leading to the surrender of a British army at Yorktown, a few weeks later, in 1781. Then in 1803, Napoleon threw into the Louisiana Purchase, all the land west of the Mississippi, for an extra 5 million dollars in addition to the 10 million dollars that America was willing pay for the port of New Orleans and 'the floridas' Napoleon needed the infusion of funds to fight the British. . more irony, France has been seeing alot of Muslim immigration because with America's crucial aid in averting disaster in World War's 1 and 2, France successfully held on to its colonies in North Africa, and West Africa, until the late 50's even 70's when some of the colonies were still considered part of extra territorial France.

If they don't elect Sarkozy... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

If they don't elect Sarkozy, they're finished.

Why am I picturing a clay-m... (Below threshold)

Why am I picturing a clay-mation Napoleon fighting a clay-mation Joe Pesci shouting "vive la france!"

"I see that has happened in... (Below threshold)
jeff:

"I see that has happened in the UMW and UAW + dozens of other unions."

Got any documentation to back that bullshit up?

Has there ever been a union... (Below threshold)
Dems and Waco:

Has there ever been a union that wasnt criminal or corrupt? We know union workers arent the best at what they do, else they wouldnt have to resort to thuggery to get many of their jobs.

Only union people I know that always work hard are UPS drivers, they never slack off, as their leash is pretty short n tight, theyre timed all the way through the day.

Should the Islamists gai... (Below threshold)
Larkin:

Should the Islamists gain the upper hand there, they'll have ready access to scads of nuclear technology, nuclear reactors, and -- perhaps -- even some of France's nuclear weapons.

I'm seriously missing something here. France's Muslim population is just 7% of the nation's total. How exactly is France going to "fall" to such a small minority which is also much poorer than the overall population?

In addition, I think it's unlikely that France's Muslim minority is itself even united about establishing an Islamic state there. The assmilation process is certainly slow in France, but it could be accelerated if the country can fix it's economy and provide more opportunity for their unemployed Muslim youth. Even as it stands now, I am certain there are a good number of Muslim youth who enjoy the Western lifestyle and don't want to live like the Taleban.

Larkin, google Mark Steyn, ... (Below threshold)
kim:

Larkin, google Mark Steyn, and absorb.
======================

Jay!Where do you g... (Below threshold)
Joe:

Jay!

Where do you get off? Honestly, you are nothing but a small town yocal, whom has probably never left the State that he was born in, nevermind acquired a passport and actually saw a bit of the world, yet you sit behind your keyboard pouring scorn on just about everything , except, Israel!

France has its problems, as does every country, but it has learnt its lessons from its colonial past, which is why it does not throw its weight around like a bull in a china shop, as the good old US of A is doing. America has so much to offer the world, but right now, under the current administration, the worlds patience is wearing thin.

Whereas in five hundred years time, people will still remember the works of Voltaire, Victor Hugo, it's artists, its classical composers and it's contribution to culture. America I fear will be remembered for the Big Mac, Dallas, and a general dumbing down of culture across the board,and of course, Rambo, that great icon of American Culture, who inspired a President or two!

Vive la France!

We bailed france ouot of... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

We bailed france ouot of vietman? Thats a new one on me.

If you recall from history (you did take History, I hope), Vietnam was once called "French Indochina"...

This anti-France parrotting... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

This anti-France parrotting is mindless. France bucked the neocon's favorite statesman's idea for an Atlantic Alliance (why not? It was plainly an Anglo-American construct, anyway), preferring not to rely on America's nuclear umbrella, but to build there own capability.

Such ingrates!

Then the messy divorce from the newly Likudnik Israel. Icing on the cake, that.

Add in Napoleon castrating the Holy See and putting the Holy Roman Empire to sleep...

And those pesky Avignon anti-popes. A direct cause (though unintended) of the protestant reformation and the freedoms we all enjoy today.

Net plus for France. And the MOVIES!

Yes, I give you Brigitte.<b... (Below threshold)
kim:

Yes, I give you Brigitte.
=============

Jeff,Sorry for the... (Below threshold)
Robert the original:

Jeff,

Sorry for the delay in response - father in hospital.

I have lived a long time in Michigan. Basket case: 8% unemployment, no growth, population in decline, no real estate market - ask anyone.

With hundreds of thousands leaving, the tax base is in decline and cuts need to be made rather than buying those iPods. Granholm (D) has placed schools off limits for cuts (political support) but with all those people left and leaving, schools too need to be looked at and some closed.

A recent study showed the Michigan teachers health care cost was among the highest in the nation - far more costly than nearby States. Most people don't get BCBS PPO, no co-pay, 12K per year health care. I just want to bring it down some.

As far as unions go, take Flint for example. The former mayor and UAW said FU to tax reductions for GM - bye bye Flint. It is now bankrupt.

The problem with Michigan is not inferior product, check with the JD Power ratings. The problem is gas price shocks driving folks to smaller cars. Due the high labor cost including health care and union work rules, Detroit cannot do well unless it is in high profit margin trucks and SUVs.

Of course, all this could have been avoided if we had drilled in Anwar and off the coast of Florida. The Chinese are now going for the oil 45 miles off the Florida coast - our oil - in concessions issued by Cuba. The Dems have blocked this for years.

Two years ago, a wealthy industrialist offered to give the Detroit schools 200 million to start two charter schools. This was rejected by the union. Last year the Detroit schools had to be saved from bankruptcy.

Our Democrat politicians take no action not approved by the unions except to deny inprovement in the energy situation that would have prevented the whole problem to begin with.

You would think our two Democrat Senators would be screaming to drill in Anwar.

Robert, the Dem senators h... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Robert, the Dem senators have a pension for life, why should they care??

Larkin - "How exactly is Fr... (Below threshold)
Murphy:

Larkin - "How exactly is France going to "fall" to such a small minority which is also much poorer than the overall population?"

Morceau par le morceau.

Kim: I assume you mean Bard... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Kim: I assume you mean Bardot? More compelling personally than artistically.

Per movie, Brigitte Fossey's my choice.

One of my favorite movies: Watch it FREE!

http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/tuner.php?channel=1196&format=movie&theme=guide

Morceau par le morceau.<... (Below threshold)
Larkin:

Morceau par le morceau.

C'est absurde.

That's not going to happen, but the exact opposite is, in fact, happening day by day. Western culture and ideologies like capitalism and democracy are knocking down the brick wall of Islamic fundamentalism just as effectively as Berliners tore down the Berlin Wall in 1989. The young people of Riyadh and Teheran listen to Western music, drink alcohol, wear Western-style clothes and eagerly absorb every facet of Western culture they can get their hands on (although usually in private).

Fundamentally Islamic states like Saudi Arabia and Iran can only be held together through the use of massive repression and a brutal state security apparatus that regularly terrorizes its citizenry. This is not the sort of model that can be easily exported to countries in Europe where 90% of the population is non-Muslim. They are even having difficultly making it work in Iraq because of the fractious and sectarian nature of the Muslims in that country. The idea that all Muslims are united in a single goal and are working together to achieve that goal is, frankly, absurd. The only thing that unites Muslims is their desire to expel Western military forces from their lands and their hatred of the state of Israel. Beyond that, there's not much they agree upon.

One area for food for thoug... (Below threshold)
epador:

One area for food for thought: Four years ago, traveling in rural France, I had no problem finding folks friendly and appreciative of the US tourist. I'm not so sure things would be much different now. i wonder how well received French tourists are in our rural areas?

FOR ALL THE US bashers: our government tends to remember our debts to friends from the past. Can you name any significant powers other than the UK that regularly reciprocate (other than a Baltic country or two)?

jeff:If... (Below threshold)
marc:

jeff:


If you really live in michigan you know damn well what drives our economy, cars, cars, cars..

Yeah, sure does and I spent 10 years building them in the Wayne MI plant. !0 years of watching the union piss cash into politival candidate pockets that I and most in that local union could give one wit about.

10 years of NEVER having the privilege of taking my measly 2-3 weeks vacation when I DESIRED. For 10 years my time off was dictated by mandate via sweetheart union/Ford deals, as a result MY time off was at the whim of Ford and THEY chose the time that best suited THEM and not when I wanted to take the family to the summer resort or a few days deer hunting.

Since then, and after 20 productive years in the U.S. Navy I've watched the continued decline of the auto industry as a result of poor management, overblown wage contracts that increased wages by several percentage points over the inflation rate and finally the coup de grace.

I've watched as they have fallen 10 years behind the Japanese in hybrid technology and are getting their collective assess handed to them in a Sushi bowl.

Too bad jeff, get over it and quit blaming the republicans.

Anybody note that the Calib... (Below threshold)
kim:

Anybody note that the Caliber looks like a Deux Chevaux?
====================================

Anybody note that Baghdad l... (Below threshold)
kim:

Anybody note that Baghdad looks a lot like Paris, 1791?
=====================================

Maybe it would be worthwhil... (Below threshold)

Maybe it would be worthwhile to start addressing some of these absurd pension programs for our so-called public servants. Why should they live like Grand Dukes (or former Grand Kleagles for that matter) for the rest of their lives on our dime? I mean, I certainly believe in providing for them but I think the present program is just a bit too lavish (all right, it's a LOT too lavish).

Then we should move on to the public employees' unions throughout the nation and their guzzling at the trough!

wat eva loser hahahahahahah... (Below threshold)

wat eva loser hahahahahahahahha make me lough

Well, the islamists might g... (Below threshold)
Fred:

Well, the islamists might get France but that won't change the fact that when the Chinese will be finished with US, it won't matter if the Islamists have nuclear weapons or not, China will take care of it. US is selling its economy to China, dying from poisoned Chinese import [see the news these days], etc... and all we talk is France. US greed as surrendered our country to the Chinese Empire. IF only the muslims could save us...




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