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Democrats Playing Chicken with President Bush

They have sent up another Iraq war spending bill with a timeline for our troops to withdrawal, and President Bush has vowed that he will again veto it. From the AP:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Defying veto threats, Democratic congressional leaders on Tuesday sent President Bush legislation setting timetables for U.S. troop withdrawals from Iraq on the fourth anniversary of his "Mission Accomplished" speech on the war.


"The president has put our troops in the middle of a civil war. A change of course is needed," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Bush, meeting in Florida with military commanders, said such an approach could turn Iraq into a "cauldron of chaos."

President Bush will take to the airwaves tonight at 6:10pm to make a statement about the veto.

Update: Ian at Hot Air has posted the video of President Bush's comments. Here are highlights of his speech:

"...[M]embers of the House and the Senate passed a bill that substitutes the opinions of politicians for the judgment of our military commanders. So a few minutes ago, I vetoed this bill." "Here is why the bill Congress passed is unacceptable"
  • "First, the bill would mandate a rigid and artificial deadline for American troops to begin withdrawing from Iraq." "It makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing. ... Setting a deadline for withdrawal is setting a date for failure - and that would be irresponsible."
  • "Second, the bill would impose impossible conditions on our commanders in combat." "That means American commanders in the middle of a combat zone would have to take fighting directions from politicians 6,000 miles away in Washington, D.C. This is a prescription for chaos and confusion, and we must not impose it on our troops."
  • "Third, the bill is loaded with billions of dollars in non-emergency spending that has nothing to do with fighting the war on terror." "Congress should debate these spending measures on their own merits - and not as a part of an emergency funding bill for our troops."

"The need to act is urgent. ...[W]hatever our differences, surely we can agree that our troops are worthy of this funding - and that we have a responsibility to get it to them without further delay."

"Without a war funding bill, the military has to take money from some other account or training program so the troops in combat have what they need."

"Without a war funding bill, the Armed Forces will have to consider cutting back on buying new equipment or repairing existing equipment."

"Without a war funding bill, we add to the uncertainty felt by our military families. Our troops and their families deserve better - and their elected leaders can do better."

Update II: The White House has released the transcript of the President's speech.


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Comments (61)

I've said it before; if we ... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

I've said it before; if we bail on Iraq and it falls apart, we're going to be looking at $100 a barrel oil. See how high it is now? Tha's because of a failed plot against the Saudi oil industry.

Put the southern Iraqi oil fields in the hands of the mullahs in Iran and this economy is demolished.

President Bush will take... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

President Bush will take to the airwaves tonight at 6:10pm to make a statement about the veto.

He should just read from Joe leiberman's script from the other day.

Is he going to make that st... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Is he going to make that statement on the deck of the USS Lincoln?

The democrats and liberals ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

The democrats and liberals think that this is a winning political issue for them. The more women/children blown up by the terrorists, the better for the dems. That 's their position. They think by weakening the American public resolve to fight terrorism by playing up the number of casualties (exactly Bin Laden 's take that American will cut and run with few casualties). They are proudly proclaiming the public support of their position. Chamberlain won a landslide against Churchill by selling Czech to Hitler. At least he was ashamed of it and later worked with Churchill. The liberals of today proudly proclaim their Vietname legacy and now their prospect of political power by selling out to the terrorists.

My hat to you all, liberals. What a proud legacy you will have.

Is he going to make that st... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Is he going to make that statement on the deck of the USS Lincoln?
-------------------------------------------------
Will the dems hold another press conference in front of "Black Hawks down"?

This is their proud legacy.

Please don't make me vomit ... (Below threshold)
jFO:

Please don't make me vomit by making any kind of comparison/analogy between Mr Bush and Winston Churchill.

Please don't make me vomit ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Please don't make me vomit by making any kind of comparison/analogy between Mr Bush and Winston Churchill.
-------------------------------------------------
So by the same token, liberals today cannot even compare to Chamberlain? Should I vomit because of this low standard?


I've noticed from time to t... (Below threshold)
jFO:

I've noticed from time to time that you and others make this attempt to compare liberals with Chamberlain. That's pretty silly for lots of reasons - mostly historical. It's as silly a position as if I were to compare Bush to Hitler because both lied their countries into a disasterous war.

jFO, As Barney said... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

jFO,
As Barney said, I just laid out the facts and draw logical conclusion from it. If there is big outcry from liberals condemning the Dems, esp Reid and Pelosi (their leaders) for what they are doing, then I can see it. So far, just more excuses. Anyway, this is what I would expect.

Harry Reid happily came out and proclaimed the Iraq war is lost as soon as the terrorists blew up the Iraqui women and children. Pelosi don a burqua to kiss up to the Assad, yet she couldn't find time to meet with Patreus.

I've noticed from time t... (Below threshold)
cirby:

I've noticed from time to time that you and others make this attempt to compare liberals with Chamberlain. That's pretty silly for lots of reasons - mostly historical.

Yeah. Chamberlain actually believed he could get "Peace in our time" by kowtowing to fascist dictators who wanted to take over the world The Democrats know better, but do the same darned things because it plays well to their voting base.

I'm not sure what's worse; ... (Below threshold)
jFO:

I'm not sure what's worse; whether you believe that nonsense cirby or you're just ignorant. What the democrats do is disagree with the conduct of a disasterous civil war in Iraq.

jFO, I am not sure ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

jFO,
I am not sure you understand the difference between "disagreement" and "selling out" unless you are simply trying to make an excuse.

Barney......<... (Below threshold)


Barney......
Is he going to make that statement on the deck of the USS Lincoln?

You have been properly warned on this. Wipe off ypur monitor.


btw Barney, once again, the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by the crew of the Lincoln to denote the airwing and ship's crew's success in completing THEIR missions. Per my ex-neighbor and personal friend, a senior ship'd officer aboard the Lincoln.

Of course this isn't what you wish to believe, or how the media spun it.

Happy "glad to be an American" day

Posted by: metprof at May 1, 2007 11:52 AM

Now we're to the nub of it ... (Below threshold)
jFO:

Now we're to the nub of it LAI. You see it as "selling out" while the democrats, many republicans and the majority of the country see it as ending what is a disaster. The right's perspective, the rest of the countries persepctive.

Indeed, I fear you may be r... (Below threshold)
Publicus:

Indeed, I fear you may be right. The Democrats may be PLAYING chicken. Maybe they'll fold and give the president the funds to continue the war.

However, the war in Iraq IS over, if the Democrats want it. Remember: no funding, no war in Iraq.

I know you don't favor that, but basically the President is completely at the mercy of the Congress. However, I suspect that the Dems will continue the war...who knows?

You see it as "selling o... (Below threshold)
cirby:

You see it as "selling out" while the democrats, many republicans and the majority of the country see it as ending what is a disaster.

...and their effort to end this "disaster" consisted of putting together one of the most pathetically pork-loaded spending bills ever passed, tacking on their lame political statement about cutting and running, and then pretending that it's not their fault it got vetoed.

Of course, the same bill, without the pork and without their other attempt at bailing out of the war, would have gone right on through.

And a "run away" bill, without the pork to bribe the last dozen or so Congresscritters, wouldn't have even passed the House, much less the Senate.

Is he going to make that... (Below threshold)

Is he going to make that statement on the deck of the USS Lincoln?


He should, with the banner -- SURRENDER DENIED!

the "Mission Accomplishe... (Below threshold)
Brian:

the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by the crew of the Lincoln
...
Of course this isn't what you wish to believe, or how the media spun it.

Nor is it the truth.

Six months after he spoke on an aircraft carrier deck under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," President Bush disavowed any connection with the war message. Later, the White House changed its story and said there was a link.
The democrats and libera... (Below threshold)
jim:

The democrats and liberals think that this is a winning political issue for them.

And America appears to agree. Hence the President's continued flatlining popularity. Hence the Dems and Congress' increasing popularity, as they stand up to Bush's policies.

The Democrats are in line with maintream America. You seem to think this makes the Democrats are traitors. If they are, then by definition most of America also hates America.

Either that, or you could be wrong. Which is more likely?

The more women/children blown up by the terrorists, the better for the dems. That 's their position. They think by weakening the American public resolve to fight terrorism...

I'll stop you right there.

Please listen carefully:

OCCUPYING IRAQ IS NOT REDUCING TERRORISM.

Got that?

According to all available information, facts, figures, and expert analysis by impartial experts AND government officials - our bungled efforts in Iraq are INCREASING terrorism.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0501/p99s01-duts.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html?ei=5088&emc=rs&en=da252be85d1b39fa&ex=1316750400&partner=rssnyt

http://www.here-now.org/shows/2007/02/20070222_2.asp

Do you understand that?

Therefore, if one wishes to fight terrorism, one should stop doing things that increase terrorism.

Do you agree or disagree?

Hence the President's co... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Hence the President's continued flatlining popularity. Hence the Dems and Congress' increasing popularity, as they stand up to Bush's policies.

You might want to double-check your assumptions, there.

The Democratic Party, as an abstract concept, might be somewhat more popular than Bush (though not by much), but individual Democrats, like Pelosi and Feinstein (the actual comparison to Bush) have even lower approval rates than Bush does - and mostly because of their positions on the war.

jfo, I defy you to list the... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

jfo, I defy you to list the lies you claim Bush told to lead us into war. Be aware of the 1998 Iraqi Freedom Act signed by Bill Clinton and all of the beliefs that went with it. Second, you need to define what you call civil war. Who are the combatants. There seems to be sectarian violence, but it is far from civil war. The Democratic leadership (?) claims the American people want a change of direction in Iraq. I don't think they want defeat and a cowardly abandonment of a people in need.

Jim, being in Iraq may not ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Jim, being in Iraq may not decrease terrorism, but it sure, for the first time in our history, reduced the number of terrorists. If you think Reid and the witch, Pelosi can build much of a political future carrying out the wishes of the Daily Kos and moveon.org, you need to take a few units of Poli Sci.

It's game playing with ever... (Below threshold)

It's game playing with every major player over Iraq while the violemce worsens and the government of Iraq weakens.

The Democrats are playing games with the war funding to satisfy the leftwing of their party.

The White House is playing games by supplying less than 25% of the U.S. troops required to "win" this war in the sense of providing adequate security to stop sectarian violence in Iraq. There's not a genuine will to "win" in Iraq by this White House.

The Iraqi parliament is going to take two months off for vacation, when very few even show up for parliament sessions anyway. Most politicians ran for office to get a paycheck and favors for their families, they don't care about their country.

Anyone here seriously think that this Iraq thing is going to turn out great? Militia groups like the one run by radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr, Iran and Al Qaeda will only take full advantage of all this weakness from all major involved parties.

Paul, do you really believe... (Below threshold)
horse:

Paul, do you really believe all that? It seems you are stretching things a bit there.

Democrats may be seen to pl... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Democrats may be seen to playing chicken..It isn't the apocalypse isn't coming because of this bill. There will eventually be compromise, and probably the final bill will only really outline a fewbenchmarks the Iraqi government must meet to demonstrate progress in reconciling differences between the country's sectarian communities." Otherwise Bush would be able to prolong the war, as long as he wants (which would surely be a damn long time)..Gates has said that Democratic pressure has been useful in getting Maliki (and I think Bush too) to move a little to know the Americans are serious, about finishing this war, and not allowing it go on forever.

On the 4th anniversay of "M... (Below threshold)
Ron:

On the 4th anniversay of "Mission Accomplished," Dubya signs one of his only veto statements. The dems are now going back for override votes. The reeps will be forced once again to make the hard vote on Iraq - FUBAR within an enigma.

Yet, we still have the outrageous comments by LoveAmerica Immigrant and his ilk who somehow think that liberals want to see bloody body parts strewn about. Sorry bud, but you couldn't be more wrong. This is Dubya's war, the NeoCon's war, the idiot's war. It is the Stupid Pointless War.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft thinks terrorism is down. Wrong! Worldwide, terrorism is up by 30%. Thanks for playing, take your doorprize and go comment on Anna Nicole Smith.

I'll even bet the neocons and other fools can't even come up with a coherent idea for what a "win" in Iraq might look like. And I'm doubly sure your goal posts have been moved in at least a dozen times over the past four years.

I've been reading what the NeoCons and fools have been saying - the strategy is to kill the crazies and nutheads faster. Wow, that's sure working well for us, eh?

How about the politics? How is Maliki doing? What legislation has been passed by Parliament? How's the all-important oil bill doing?

How is the economy? What is the unemployment rate? How are reconstruction efforts going?

Use all the force you want. I want the mini-Saddams dead as much as you do. But don't think for a second that force alone is going to do the trick.

Cirby, I noticed you DIDN"T provide a link documenting your assertion that Pelosi and Reid are less popular than Dubya because they are anti-war. I wonder why that is.

By the way, great posts by Jim, Brian, BarneyG2000, JFO, Publicus.

A thought-provoking post from Paul Hooson. My logical take on this is we should as well get the hell out of Iraq.

Kevin Drum;"BANANA... (Below threshold)
Semanticleo:

Kevin Drum;

"BANANA REPUBLICANISM, CONT'D....Quote of the day, from Thomas Sowell:

When I see the worsening degeneracy in our politicians, our media, our educators, and our intelligentsia, I can't help wondering if the day may yet come when the only thing that can save this country is a military coup.

Now that's a comforting, conservative thought, isn't it? I wonder what Buckley thinks of NRO publishing stuff like this?"

I keep hearing rumblings of this sort. Can a Mushareff style democracy work in the US?

being in Iraq may not de... (Below threshold)
Brian:

being in Iraq may not decrease terrorism, but it sure, for the first time in our history, reduced the number of terrorists.

Wow, you have real great criteria for success.

Of the 14,338 reported terrorist attacks worldwide last year, 45 percent took place in Iraq, and 65 percent of the global fatalities stemming from terrorism occurred in Iraq. In 2005, Iraq accounted for 30 percent of the worldwide terrorist attacks.

...
the number of incidents in Iraq rose 91 percent, from 3,468 in 2005 to 6,630 in 2006.


BrianYour link....</... (Below threshold)

Brian
Your link....


Six months after he spoke on an aircraft carrier deck under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," President Bush disavowed any connection with the war message. Later, the White House changed its story and said there was a link.

That doesn't explain much. The President joked about an advance man, the crew asked for permission to raise the banner....and CBS inserted their very predictable editorial comment in the news item ending with that point that the president slept while the warship waited to dock. I won't clutter up Kevin's site with the whole piece but, essentially it says nothing other than to advance the CBS line that the President declared the ENTIRE IRAQ WAR mission accomplished, which neither he nor his staff said.

But I will admit that the President's sleeping while the ship remained at sea does remind me of Clinton's famous California runway haircut.

Ron: "A thought-provoking p... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Ron: "A thought-provoking post from Paul Hooson. My logical take on this is we should as well get the hell out of Iraq."

Hilarious!! This is the same Paul Hoosen who, just 18 months ago, did not know that the Oregon Air National Guard had more than 3 airplanes! Paul claimed, amazingly, that the Iraq war had forced Oregon to send it's few fighter jets to Iraq and that, as a result, Oregon was wide open "to attack"!!

Oh my God. I think there were a couple threads that were overrun with those laughing at Paul Hoosen's abject stupidity in military matters.

It doesn't surprise me that some idiot lefty like Ron thinks Paul's "cut and pastes" somehow represent "thought provoking" commentary.

Barney: "Is he going to mak... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Barney: "Is he going to make that statement on the deck of the USS Lincoln?"

Barney is an idiot.

Every single Navy unit, command, or group ALWAYS concludes their actions/deployments/cruises/missions/tasks with the phrase "Mission Accomplished". Mission Accomplishment rates were actually used as benchmarks in awarding unit citations.

Again, for the hearing and learning impaired: Every Navy command completes it's cruise with a big "Mission Accomplished".

Every time.

I remember a troll a little while back who argued that the Mission Accomplished mantra was not present when he was in the Navy.

Turns out he was an enlisted man in the Canadian Navy. (I believe that conversation was on Polipundit.) Too funny.

Bush continues his streak o... (Below threshold)
dr lava:

Bush continues his streak of fxxing up everything about Iraq with this veto.

Think hard and come up with one thing Bush has done right in this disaster.

I find it very telling that no one here at Wizbang ever discusses the PSAs. That's the reason you are hypnotized and so sunmissive to the Bush gang....you have no idea what's really going on over there.

drlava: "Think hard and com... (Below threshold)
Drago:

drlava: "Think hard and come up with one thing Bush has done right in this disaster."

He opposes allowing the Dems to surrender to Al Qaeda in Iraq.

PS drlava, Bush is not the first President to use PSA's, and he has been right every single time he has used it.

If you disagree, please feel free to point out a SPECIFIC PSA that GWB has issued that you disagree with, as well as the supporting law that supports your position. Further, please do not cite lower court rulings as support if those lower court rulings were overturned by higher courts (libs have a non-surpirsing tendency to cite lower court rulings (often times by a single liberal judge) but somehow "forget" to include the fact that higher courts have tossed these decisions.)

Drlava, thanks in advance for providing no substantive response.

The donkeys seem to want a ... (Below threshold)

The donkeys seem to want a WWII Germany strategy when it comes to fighting war.

Forget what they're doing is un-constitutional (It's commander in chief, not commander in committee) and is at its worst, trying to usurp the power of the President, they're laying the groundwork that merely satisfies their anti-war base.

The President joked abou... (Below threshold)
Brian:

The President joked about an advance man, the crew asked for permission to raise the banner....

I see you chose to use "..." instead of accurately stating "and the White House created and provided the banner".

But I will admit that the President's sleeping while the ship remained at sea does remind me of Clinton's famous California runway haircut.

They are similar, with one exception. The Clinton story is false, and the Bush story is true.

The Democrats are in line w... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

The Democrats are in line with maintream America. You seem to think this makes the Democrats are traitors. If they are, then by definition most of America also hates America.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks for proving the point that the liberals are proudly proclaiming their cut-and-run legacy. You can be proud that all the terrorists need to do now is to blow up more women/children in Iraq and it will help you to win the election next year.

Just imagine what it is like if the liberals would stand up and say: we may not agree with our president but we will hunt down since you are so despicable for blowing up women/children.

The more women and children are blown up in Iraq, the better for the Dems. That 's why they are taking every opportunity to proclaim the terrorists' atrocities.

After 6 years of no attack on the main land, the Americans are busy pursuing their normal life. The liberals are trying every tools in their propaganda arsenal to promote Bin Laden 's point. Chamberlain won a landslide against Churchill, but he honestly believed in "peace in our time" with Hitler. The dems today simply want political power even at the point of catering to the terrorists.

What a legacy: catering to the communists and now to the terrorists and the liberals are proud of it.


The Democrats are i... (Below threshold)
Jaw:

The Democrats are in line with maintream America. You seem to think this makes the Democrats are traitors. If they are, then by definition most of America also hates America.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks for proving the point that the liberals are proudly proclaiming their cut-and-run legacy. You can be proud that all the terrorists need to do now is to blow up more women/children in Iraq and it will help you to win the election next year.

LAI, you're a psychopath. You obviously didn't read the post you quoted, so lets do it together: THE DEMOCRATS ARE IN LINE WITH MAINSTREAM AMERICA. This means (definition), that the MAJORITY of voters voted for change in this government and the Iraq war. You can ignore that truth if you like, but take a look at the votes in detail if you like: YOUR SIDE LOST THE ARGUMENT.

This does not mean that every person who voted for change is either a democrat or follows that set of guidelines. It simply means that, like most of us who don't enjoy being lied to, we're fed up with this administration and it's sad excuse for leadership. Thus change. Thus the vote. Therefore, IN LINE WITH MAINSTREAM AMERICA. And, by default, the side that still believes the liar in office, still supports a continued campaign that goes nowhere and is still so fearful that they would support anyone who instilled fear in them and made them believe the terrorists are hiding out in their basement (i.e. being a coward all the time), well...that side is a small minority today.

Sorry. You're delusional. Try facing reality and stop hiding behind your fear. You might learn something.

Jaw, Let me explain... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Jaw,
Let me explain it slowly to you. I can't imagine Chamberlain proudly proclaim that he had successfully convinced the British public to support the plan to sell out Czech to Hitler. He won a landslide election against Churchill.
I tip my hat to you liberals for a masterful propaganda to weaken the resolve of the American people. I think you should be proud of that. That 's why Harry Reid didn't even have even a hint of shame when he happily went out to proclaim that the Iraq war is lost when the terrorists simply blew up more Iraqui women/children. Chamberlain turned around and worked with Churchill to fight against Hitler. The Dems tried to hide behind American public opinion to do the propaganda job on behalf of the terrorists. Chamberlain worked to convince the British public to fight against Hitler later. The dems seem to be encouraging more terrorist attacks against Iraqui women and children so that they can go to American people and say see how we cannot fight them.

IF blowing off Iraqui women/children is enough to force America to cut and run, then what if the terrorists try to blow up American women/children?

I am simply surprised that liberals can be so proud of such a legacy. Working in tandem with the terrorists may in fact win you more votes next year. That 's why the Dem party seems to be pursuing such a course. I can't imgine Chamberlain would pursue it though.

I tip my hat to you... (Below threshold)
Jaw:

I tip my hat to you liberals for a masterful propaganda to weaken the resolve of the American people.....The Dems tried to hide behind American public opinion to do the propaganda job on behalf of the terrorists.

Yes, the American people are such lemmings -- and you're so smart. You can see the truth when everyone else - and the facts - see lies from this administration.

Sorry, LAI, but you're not the wise one. This war was lost the minute we went into it without the proper military numbers. Nothing will change that. Driving off a cliff because you're not willing to admit you're going in the wrong direction is not resolve - it's utter ignorant stupidity, propped up by ego. And, quite honesty, this administration has provided no plan B or C. They still feel their path - the path that has resulted in mistake after mistake after mistake without a single success - is right without adjustment. Idiots function that way.

Idiots like you and your brethren. Continue being a delusional loon. Those of us with common sense can see you for what you are.

You hear the new tune out b... (Below threshold)
Herman:

You hear the new tune out by Bush and The Conservatives? Here's how it goes:

All we are sa-a-ying
is give war a chance.

Jaw, Can you imagin... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Jaw,
Can you imagine Chamberlain say what you guys are saying now: we couldn't fight against Hitler, so we let him have Czech and we were with the MAINSTREAM BRITISH PUBLIC. The fact was that the British army didn't even have a chance against the German army. Yet Chamberlain was willing to turn around and work with Churchill against Hitler with close to zero odd of winning.

Today, all the terrorists have to do is to blow up soft targets like women and children and the Dems will happily hold a press conference to proclaim the war is lost. Today an AlQ leader was killed, and yes the dems will need to wait for verification etc... They are waiting for the terrorists to blow up more Iraqui women/children to proclaim that the war is lost. We lost 3000 sericemen in one excercise in WWII. Today we lost 3000 soldiers in Iraq and the Dems already want to cut and run. Bin Laden said that America will cut and run and the first sight of casualties and a long time. The dems are trying to prove him correct.

The terrorists ' plan is simple: trying to blow up more women/children and the liberals will do their propaganda bidding. If the American military let the Iraqui forces loose to deal accordingly with these terrorists, the liberal press will conduct atrocity investigation etc...

Damn, damn,damn! Don't you ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Damn, damn,damn! Don't you libtards (Bush "republicans") get it? The Guy has left you behind. Notice the JEFFERSON Memorial in the background? You're being Written Out! (A guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do!) Triangulation, whatever you care to call it.
W is marking time; keeping a stiff upper lip, yet strangely Signalling that the Jig Is UP!
Meanwhile he feeds the meat grinder.
Yes! I AM a conspiracy theorist...

" I tip my hat to you libe... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

" I tip my hat to you liberals for a masterful propaganda to weaken the resolve of the American people.....The Dems tried to hide behind American public opinion to do the propaganda job on behalf of the terrorists."


This is reality and the truth of the democrats traitorous actions. When the Rats open their mouths , it's to deceive the American people and distort the facts.

"Yes, the American people are such lemmings -- and you're so smart. You can see the truth when everyone else - and the facts - see lies from this administration."

Yes they are you loser, I was one of them , I voted for the POS Democrats for years. 75% didn't even know who that bimbo Pelosi was after the mid term election.

"Sorry, LAI, but you're not the wise one. This war was lost the minute we went into it without the proper military numbers."

This proves you are not only and idiot , your also a complete Un-American Asshole. You are so stupid it's fricken unbelievable.

The war has already been won and we have not lost a single battle. The only talk of losing comes from the party of losers , liars and lowlifes.

You have no common sense , your too stupid.

"They still feel their path - the path that has resulted in mistake after mistake after mistake without a single success - is right without adjustment."

You deserve to lose your stupid head just to stop the assinie lies that it spits out.

"WHEN DEMOCRATS LIED THREE MILLION DIED"

The words and lies the Democrats spew are "KILLING AMERICANS". When are these criminal frauds going to be held accountable for their deliberate behavior , these CRACK HEADS FEINDING FOR POWER?


Rob LA:This is onl... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Rob LA:

This is only a test:
(your participation is appreciated. Really.)

Are you Cuban? Part Cuban? Or none?

No aspersions. I like Cubans, but your vehemance is extraordinary (except for Here!)andis reminiscent of old-line, anti-Castro Cubans I've known in the past (99% good folk!...but...).

You may be Anglo-Saxon, for all I know... just wondering...plus tuning my Spidey-sensors...

Amateur anthropogist at work...


Hot-blooded you be!!!

Jim, being in Iraq may n... (Below threshold)
jim:

Jim, being in Iraq may not decrease terrorism, but it sure, for the first time in our history, reduced the number of terrorists.

Zelsdorf, the Iraq War HAS NOT decreased the number of terrorists! It has increased it!

Every Iraqi we cause to die has relatives and friends. Every one of those relatives and friends then come to hate us. Thus one death can lead to four terrorists.

You can understand how that can work, right?

That's the whole point of the studies that I linked to - which have not been refuted by the White House in any way.

Please go read those links I've posted.

Thanks for proving the p... (Below threshold)
jim:

Thanks for proving the point that the liberals are proudly proclaiming their cut-and-run legacy. You can be proud that all the terrorists need to do now is to blow up more women/children in Iraq and it will help you to win the election next year.

Oh, I see. It's the LIBERALS' fault that a President which all of us Liberals told you was a disaster, led us into a war which all of us liberals told you as a disaster.

And it's now our fault that the war is going so badly that it's creating more terrorists than it's killing.

And it's also our fault that the Bush administration's version of the situation doesn't match reality.

I guess it must be our fault, because we're telling you things you don't want to hear?

That's called blaming the bad news on the messenger.

Just imagine what it is like if the liberals would stand up and say: we may not agree with our president but we will hunt down since you are so despicable for blowing up women/children.

Just imagine??? WE DID THAT AND OUR DOING THAT.

Here's what you're not getting:

THE US OCCUPATION IRAQ IS HURTING THE US' WAR ON TERROR.

Please reread that again.

NOw go read the three links I've posted, which are expert reports on exactly this. And none of the reports have been refuted. One is the NIE you may remember from last year. The top one is the latest 2007 info, which shows how things are WORSE.

The dems today simply want political power even at the point of catering to the terrorists.

Please show how trying to reduce terrorism, is catering to terrorists.

Hey Rob LA CA.When... (Below threshold)
jim:

Hey Rob LA CA.

When someone said this:

This war was lost the minute we went into it without the proper military numbers."

YOu responded this fact-filled logical refutation:

This proves you are not only and idiot , your also a complete Un-American Asshole. You are so stupid it's fricken unbelievable.

The war has already been won and we have not lost a single battle. The only talk of losing comes from the party of losers , liars and lowlifes.

Hey Rob. Here's some facts for you. Try them. The Bush Administration you defend, and which you insult others for daring to criticize, had the information in front of them about what a disaster they had on their hands if they invaded with less than 400,000 troops.

THEY CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE IT.

They deliberately chose to ignore proven experts in their field, because they didn't want to believe they couldn't invade Iraq.

That's the facts. Go read them. Article below. So from now on you know, and you have no excuse.

I guess the US Military that put on the war games, are losers and lowlifes? WHy would you insult our troops like that? Why do you hate America?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-05-iraq-games_x.htm

"1999 war games foresaw problems in Iraq"

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government conducted a series of secret war games in 1999 that anticipated an invasion of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, and even then chaos might ensue.

In its "Desert Crossing" games, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence officials assumed the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

The documents came to light Saturday through a Freedom of Information Act request by the George Washington University's National Security Archive, an independent research institute and library.

"The conventional wisdom is the U.S. mistake in Iraq was not enough troops," said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. "But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops on the ground."

There are currently about 144,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, down from a peak of about 160,000 in January.

A spokeswoman for U.S. Central Command, which sponsored the seminar and declassified the secret report in 2004, declined to comment Saturday because she was not familiar with the documents.

The war games looked at "worst case" and "most likely" scenarios after a war that removed then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power. Some are similar to what actually occurred after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003:

•"A change in regimes does not guarantee stability," the 1999 seminar briefings said. "A number of factors including aggressive neighbors, fragmentation along religious and/or ethnic lines, and chaos created by rival forces bidding for power could adversely affect regional stability."

•"Even when civil order is restored and borders are secured, the replacement regime could be problematic -- especially if perceived as weak, a puppet, or out-of-step with prevailing regional governments."

•"Iran's anti-Americanism could be enflamed by a U.S.-led intervention in Iraq," the briefings read. "The influx of U.S. and other western forces into Iraq would exacerbate worries in Tehran, as would the installation of a pro-western government in Baghdad."

•"The debate on post-Saddam Iraq also reveals the paucity of information about the potential and capabilities of the external Iraqi opposition groups. The lack of intelligence concerning their roles hampers U.S. policy development."

•"Also, some participants believe that no Arab government will welcome the kind of lengthy U.S. presence that would be required to install and sustain a democratic government."

•"A long-term, large-scale military intervention may be at odds with many coalition partners."

It took Reagan to repair th... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

It took Reagan to repair the damage democrats did to American reputation and resolve after Viet Nam. You anti American liberals think you can do it again. Who won Tet Jim? According to our miliary we did. According to the liberals and the Press, we lost. Of course there are more terrorist now, they think they have us on the run thanks to the traitorous filth spewed by that low life Reid. You ignorant bastards think this is all about Bush. It is about America doing what needs to be done. Saddam was a threat and we were going to have to fight him again. It was just a matter of time. If Bush had the army his dad had, it would have been much better, but you fight a war with what you have not what you do not have. You claim most of America is for getting out of Iraq based upon the last election. I invite you to research the number of people who voted in the last election, for all democrats and compare that to the number of people who put Bush back in the WhiteHouse. Democrats won an election based upon many things. Joe Leiberman destroyed an anti war candidate. Foley did more harm than the war. Republicans did not vote in the numbers necessary to maintain a majority, but let us not call that a mandate for a leftist agenda.

Jim you are delusional, Im ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Jim you are delusional, Im sorry.

Dems get 50.1%, and it's a ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Dems get 50.1%, and it's a landslide mandate for change.... according to them.

Repubs: get 50.1%, it's obvious the people don't trust them.... according to the Dems.

Gotta love how binary it all gets!

Zeldorf, I post three repor... (Below threshold)
jim:

Zeldorf, I post three reports with explicit facts on the record, that our presence in Iraq is creating more terrorists than we are killing.

You respond that, and I quote, "[the US] being in raq...reduced the number of terrorists."

Woo.

I then post for you, again, more explicitly this time, how what you just said is totally contradicted by the reports of paid career US foreign affairs, military and intelligence experts that I *just posted*.

You then state that I'm delusional.

Interesting.

You know, RobLA, you're a n... (Below threshold)
Jaw:

You know, RobLA, you're a nasty little SOB with nothing of substance to say. I've looked back at some of the other threads on this blog and, for the life of me, I couldn't find a single instance of you citing a credible source, defending your out-there opinions or, for that matter, doing anything other than spitting and crying like a little wuss, calling names and making threats.

The conservative right must be real proud to have you on their side.

Also, you decide to question my patriotism, you little prick. I served in the Florida National Guard when I was young, what have you done? I've earned my right to whatever opinion I have. How have you served your country other than complaining like a spoiled little brat.

And by the way, the majority of the country thinks you're wrong on every count. How about that. And they're right, too. You apparently are too stubborn and stupid to realize you've been had by this administration and their ilk.

Many years from now, when all this is history, and with perspective and several volumes about how this administration was the scourge of the country, you'll still be living in your little hovel ranting to the walls how wrong EVERYONE ELSE IS.

You'll be as wrong then as you are now. The big difference is everyone will have long since stopped listening to you.

Get a life, wuss. Learn a thing or two. And for future reference, don't spend your time threatening people on this blog. You're not man enough to front those threats - other than hiding behind your computer, all alone.

Jim you are a complete i... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

Jim you are a complete idiot. War Games are not facts.

"This war was lost the minute we went into it without the proper military numbers."

The fact that you make this claim is obsurd , so stupid and juvenille on it's face it's no wonder you people think you can pervert reality like yourselves.

For example you think you are so clever and say things like "The Bush Administration you defend". It's no wonder they say democrats are week on National Defense and are not trusted to protect this Country. Defending Bush? You blind fool I am attacking Traitors like you and your party of perpetual fraud. Undermining the president in a time of war for their perverted pleasure of aquiring political gain for their feindish quest for power should be executed on the spot. Got that?

You want to destroy and divide this Country just to satisfy the sick Un-American agenda of some pack of Socialist Communist human waste who masquerade as Americans calling themselves , Democrats. You are like your Party are criminal lying frauds. You may say something that just happens to be true and still be incapable of telling the truth.

"They deliberately chose to ignore proven experts in their field, because they didn't want to believe they couldn't invade Iraq"

I have never heard such blatant stupidity than this. "Deliberately Chose" "Proven Experts" "couldn't invade". According to you there wasn't even a fucken choice, who the hell do you think is in charge of protecting this Country you arrogant POS. Are you fuckers deaf? NO! you deliberately and intentionally are ignoring Gen Patraeous and Continue Misrepresenting Gen. Petraeus' Comments.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070429.html

Here are some facts I'm sure that Joe Biden will be more than happy to ram down your throat. Convincing him that you are President Bush would be childs play.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/031703_rolling_start.html

Here's some more stupidity and admission of treason from your braindead bretheren.

"After Iraq, there will certainly be increased asymmetric warfare, "terrorism," if you will, directed at Americans, American institutions, American targets. And when the rest of the world recognizes how thinly spread the US military is, thinly spread physically, but also economically because it is not a sustainable institution in its current incarnation, rebellions will occur. They have already started. Then the response of the weakening US will be to lash out, often with totally unforeseeable consequences, just as the consequences of this impending invasion are unforeseeable"

The frauds talk out of both sides of their necks. The childish whiny reaction of "SEE! I TOLD YOU SO!"

"We in the antiwar movement have struggled to protect the Iraqi people."

Say what? ......Lying cowards

"Our military might is no longer a sign of strength, and the US military is not invincible. Its use as both first and last resort is a sign of profound systemic weakness..........

We will keep our eyes on the fact that the system itself is failing and this adventure is a symptom of that failure, and continue to work for the political destruction of our current regime as a tactical necessity."

"Political destruction" "Current Regime"

Anti-war Movement? Lying pussies are straight up ANTI-AMERICAN and should be hunted down like animals and if I'm not mistaken , It's was one BJ Clinton that created the "WAR ROOM" was it not?

"totally contradicted by the reports of paid career US foreign affairs, military and intelligence experts that I *just posted*."

KEY WORDS
"PAID" & "CAREER"
ALL OF WHICH MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT THE FACT THAT SO MANY PROMINANT DEMOCRATS VOTED TO GO TO WAR MEANS EVERYTHING NO MATTER HOW MANY TIME YOU LIARS LIE.

"Also, you decide to questi... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

"Also, you decide to question my patriotism, you little prick."

You damn right I'm questioning your Patriotisn as well as your manhood you punk ass trouth mouth heathan. Tough guy manning up behind a keyboard.

You served in the National Guard , so what so did President George W Bush and He's an Idiot and a Dummy. You ever looked in the eyes of some POS determined to kill you? You ever seen evil in the eyes of men? You haven't seen shit because you can't see what's right in front of your face staring at you. The eyes don't lie as the democrats do. It hasn't stopped since the election of 2000 nor with their unmeritted Majorty of both Houses in 2006 Midterm election.

Who have I treatened? Name one person I have threatened. Must be you who feels threatened being less than a Man hiding behinds lies.

Ya you democrats really support the troops telling them the war is lost. "like telling them here is a raft to get you down river and as you walk away you mumble , you're still going to drown". Knowing full well it leaked and would not make it half way down but hey , that's what the Rats consider support. Links & sources are for those who can comprehend and read what they see before them , you are legally blind.

First I have to say that Pr... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

First I have to say that President Bush has had one of the most challenging and difficult presidencies ever. Just recall what he has had to face since swearing in. The vote recall, China spy plane, 9/11 and all that entailed. Afghanistan, Iraq, Katrina, the list goes on. It was not a free ride like in the 90's. Sins of the past came home to roost. In that context, he is doing very well. I did not include the CONSTANT harping from the lefties since day one. There were many more problems.

Anyone who ever served in the military know the difference between a mission and a war. So those that spout the President said that mission was accomplished, doesn't know what they are talking about. Just blather.

The dimmers are playing politics with the military simply because they are like everyone else they use, are a means to an end. Reid saying the dimmers can get more senate seats with this, says it all. Finally, I hear a lot of lefties say they totally support the troops. What does that mean? If you don't support their mission, how else do you support the troops? ww

There is not a single Dem... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

There is not a single Democrat that could survive two years of what President Bush has had to endure, not a fricken one. They would broke down in tears or hung themselves. They are incompetant and cowards and they know it . Ever Notice the thug like displays when ever the put on their pitiful performance of shameless fraud? One penis erectis standing behind the other in support of their traitorous lying leaders.

I'm still waiting to see an example of how democrats support our troops. Democrat talking points can't even pass the smell test.

Jim you are a complete ... (Below threshold)
jim:

Jim you are a complete idiot. War Games are not facts....The fact that you make this claim is obsurd , so stupid and juvenille on it's face it's no wonder you people think you can pervert reality like yourselves.

War Games are studies done by experts. You see, before you do something like, oh I dunno, commit the US to a foreign war that will kill thousands of US soldiers, it's a good idea to look at what might happen.

Here's what happened: they realized it would probably be a disaster.

Now look what happened: why, it's a complete disaster in every single way they said it might be a disaster.

And why I say proven experts, i mean: EXPERTS. US MILITARY OFFICIALS.

Some of whom, like Gen. Shinseki, got sent home by the Bush admin because they dared point out we need more soldiers to make it work.

Who has been proven right - the Bush admin, or Gen. Shinseki and the earlier war games?

I understand why it might be painful for you to acknowledge this reality. And why you might even call my reporting of reality to you, to be *perverting* it.

But it remains reality. You backed the wrong horse. Bush took you for a ride. Admit it, and feel better.

Undermining the presiden... (Below threshold)
jim:

Undermining the president in a time of war for their perverted pleasure of aquiring political gain for their feindish quest for power should be executed on the spot. Got that?

So I guess you're saying that every single Republican who criticized President Clinton during the Bosnian intervention should be executed, right?

Yes or no?

A free ride like the '90's.... (Below threshold)
jim:

A free ride like the '90's. Yeah right. Except for:

- The original WTC bombing - where all the perpetrators were caught and convicted.

- Oklahoma City bombing. Oh, look at that - all known perps caught and convicted again.

- Olympic park bombing. Oh, huh - all perps caught again.

- Columbine.

- Bosnia.

- Kosovo.

- Landmark agreements pushed by Clinton in Israel and Ireland.

- Cleaning up the economic results of the 1st Bush recession.

- Hurricane Andrew

But there were less international diplomatic disasters - because Clinton was a competent adult who

a) didn't surround himself with brown-nosers
b) would actually listen to experts
c) actually liked to read
d) actually liked to plan for the future

"They deliberately chos... (Below threshold)
jim:

"They deliberately chose to ignore proven experts in their field, because they didn't want to believe they couldn't invade Iraq"

...[pointless insult ignored]..."Deliberately Chose" "Proven Experts" "couldn't invade". According to you there wasn't even a fucken choice, who the hell do you think is in charge of protecting this Country....

Your response makes no sense.

Whether or not someone is in charge, has no bearing on whether or not they made a smart decision.

1) The Bush administration had the facts in front of them, from the 1999 war games.

2) the war games showed an Iraq occupation and invasion would fail, with less than 400,000 troops.

3) The Bush administration sent in FAR less than this number. THIS MEANS THEY CHOSE TO IGNORE THE WAR GAMES INFORMATION, AND INVADE WITH FAR LESS PEOPLE THAN THEY NEEDED.

Either the Bush Administration wanted to fail - which even I find hard to believe - or Bush decided to go with his gut and not his brain.

There's a reason why we are supposed to think with our brains. That's why we evolved them - or God gave them to us, if you prefer. Either way, our gut produces crap. Thinking with our gut, therefore, produces crap.

4) Gen. Shinseki pointed out they needed more. They removed him from command. THIS SHOWS THEY CHOSE TO IGNORE SHINSEKI'S EXPERT OPINION.

5) The Iraq occupation has gone steadily downhill, exactly like the War Games study said it would.

Are you fuckers deaf? NO! you deliberately and intentionally are ignoring Gen Patraeous and Continue Misrepresenting Gen. Petraeus' Comments.

Please show how I have misrepresented Petraeus IN ANY WAY.

You have passed with fly... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

You have passed with flying colors and have earned your place in history as one of the many perpetrators in the Democrat Party of Perpetual Fraud. Congratulations you proven yourself incorrigible.

What the hell does this mean?

"Columbine"

I don't speak in talking points , bumper sticker slogans and haven't been brainwashed by democrats so this "word" you spew out with glee means absolutely nothing.

"didn't surround himself with brown-nosers"

No? did you inhale for BJ? BJ surrounded himself with criminals and never refuse taking pictures with Dictators, terrorists and drug dealers.

"would actually listen to experts"

Ya right , finger in the wing and polls are not experts.

"actually liked to read"

700 FBI files , supeanas , Casualties.

ALL 93 career U.S. Attorneys (fired by Janet Reno March 23, 1993);

mysterious Arkansas casualties: Kathy Ferguson (ex-wife of Clinton bodyguard, suicide), Stanley Huggins (Madison Guaranty investigator, found dead), Kevin Ives and Don Henry (two teens killed on the tracks after alledgedly witnessing a drug drop), Gary Johnson (badly beaten in break-in theft of his videotapes of Clinton calling on Gennifer Flowers), Jerry Parks (chief of security Clinton 1992 presidential campaign, unsolved murder), Dennis Patrick (discovered millions of dollars laundered through his account at Dan Lasater's firm, survived three murder attempts), Bill Shelton (policeman and Ferguson's boyfriend, suicide), Jon Walker (Madison Guaranty investigator, killed in fall from top of a building);

and finally, miscellaneous bimbi: Julia Broaddrick (campaign worker), Dolly Kyle Browning (high school classmate), Beth Gladden Coulson (Ark. Court of Appeals judge), Sherrie Densuk (WH intern/nutcase), Robyn Dickey ("White House Director of Special Projects and Special Needs" I Kid You Not), Elizabeth Ward Gracen (Miss America - fled country), Connie Hamzy (yes, THAT "sweet, sweet Connie" of Grand Funk fame), Marilyn Jo Jenkins (Ark. friend), Shelia Lawrence (Arlingtongate widow), Sally Perdue (Miss Arkansas), Debra Schiff (campaign plane stewardess hired at White House), Shelia Swatzyna (campaign plane stewardess), Kathleen Willey (White House volunteer), Cristy Zercher (campaign plane stewardess), et. al.

Ongoing Clinton investigations: WHITEWATER ($300k loan fraud, Billing records mystery, Castle Grande); TRAVELGATE; FBI FILEGATE; ASIAN CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS; PAULA JONES; TEAMSTER ELECTION/CAMPAIGN FRAUD; ARLINGTON CEMETERY SCANDAL

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/conv.html

"actually liked to plan for the future"

Ya, HIS!
You lose everytime. get used to it.




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